yeah, M8s look sleek and are so much quieter than the diesel locomotives. I live in Chicago, and I live next to the UP north line. Every single fricking day, loud ass F40's thunder through the city. I'm not trying to send hate to those locomotives, but they are so loud. I wish that Metra would simply just modernize and electrify their lines. There are SO many perks with doing this. Hell, half of Metra's fleet is 20-50 years old, and they need new locomotives.
@@CR157-v6w Every railroad on the planet should be electrified. Electric trains have been operating in regular revenue service for over 140 years. They predate diesel by several decades and handily beat it in literally every single performance metric there is- they're lighter, they're quieter, they accelerate faster, they put out higher torque, they reach higher top speeds, they last longer, they're cheaper to buy, maintain, and operate, and they have effectively infinite range. There is absolutely no justification for there to be even a single combustion-driven train still in regular revenue service anywhere on Earth.
@@johnsmith9165 Top services I personally want to see electrified that aren't yet: Coaster in San Diego (also, build the Downtown station and the Del Mar tunnel, and let the service run all the way to LA Union), Metrolink in LA, and Capitol Corridor in the Bay Area. Caltrain also technically still counts for that list, but is less than three months from actually starting electrified revenue service, so it gets a pass. It just needs to finish extending to Salesforce Transit Center and also electrify down to the Gilroy terminus. CAHSR is gonna get there eventually, might as well be ready when it does, right?
Not the greatest ranking system, namely because of: 1. No commentary on station quality, be it how they look in general or how convenient the experience in them is. The train itself is one thing, getting to and from it through the station is another. 2. A hyper-subjective 'railfan' category that reads like you're speaking for five people when you say a line is enjoyable to 'railfan' on. If you want to talk about which rail networks you think offer the most interesting appeal from the perspective of a 'railfan', please separate it from the objective criteria for the sake of ranking integrity. At the end of the day, the commuter's experience comes first. It's not about which lines are fun to look at, but which get the job done the best.
Agreed , the railfan category should be replaced with a cleanliness of trains and stations , on time ratings and perhaps station facilties to make the scoring more sense . The railfan category as he mentions goes against some categories , but i suppose it is really mostly railfans that watch this video .
@@ShinodaChan AMEN!!!! I literally stopped watching because of the sheer stupidity he was sputtering especially about the MTA commuter railroads into and out of NYC
The title of this needs changing from "U.S." to North American, since you have included Canada Edit: This has been addressed in the second episode. Thanks to WorldwideRailFan for explaining why this is the case.
@@kirkrotger9208 I can name a few stations that aren't high level (yet), off memory. Manitou, Derby, Appalachian Trail, Ansonia, Breakneck Ridge, Nanuet, Sloatsburg, Campbell Hall, Beacon Falls, and Seymour. There's probably a few more, but that's all I remember off memory. So we can't give MNR that same award.
@rawgem5356 I guess, but with the exception of the few Waterbury branch stations, those are all either stations for hiking or West of Hudson, so I'm not sure we can count them.
@@kirkrotger9208 West of Hudson, yet built and owned by Metro North, in New York, therefore those ones count (regardless of any "consistency" based reason. Stations in Jersey are discounted tho). Therefore, absolutely no reason to discount the Port Jervis Line's & Pascack Valley Line's stations that are in NY. Suffern is kinda the only exception to the rule. Good point on Appalachian Trail, Breakneck Ridge, and Manitou. They get a pass for their main purpose of serving hikers. Interesting fact: Derby Station is planned to be elevated and cleaned up. Not exactly sure when it will happen, but I hope it'll be sooner than later. Edit: When it does happen, I'll go up there to check it out :)
I'm sorry, but NJT getting the same frequency score as VRE is absurd as a New Jerseyan. VRE has only peak-direction service throughout its network with only 1-2 reverse-peak directions trains on the Manassas Line. NJT has plenty of express and local peak service trains out of both New York Penn and Hoboken, and all lines except the Montclair-Boonton Line and Raritan Valley Line west of Raritan have off-peak service of some kind. And those two lines serve some of the least-used territory on the system that probably lacks the ridership to make expanded service viable. All NJT Lines in North Jersey also have weekend service at least once every 2 hours but once every hour on most lines. The Atlantic City Line also functions more as an intercity line with its far stop spacing and lack of peak-centric frequency and its ridership patterns reflect that. I also think SEPTA's 2-hour weekend headways on its NEC lines makes it a lot less useful since it's super hard to time an NJT connection to it if I'm trying to get to Philly without taking Amtrak. I don't know enough about any other system to comment though but most of the rankings seem fair on the surface.
The railfanning category seems way too subjective: the M8s are some of the best looking trains in the northeast imo and I dont see why points are deducted for using them
Yeah, it's a pretty pointless category. Should focus more on an objective overview of the railroads like with the other categories rather than needless subjectivity.
It's worth mentioning that all LIRR stations have high-level platforms! Electric stations were rebuilt to be high-level when they got the M1s in the 1960s, the increased power demand forced the LIRR to update its third rail power supply, and the diesel stations got them in the 1990s for the C3s! The M1s were actually built with a top speed of 161 km/h and support for Automatic Train Operation, however, they only achieved 129 km/h in service due to track and signaling limitations, and the Automatic Train Operation was never seen in service. The C3s on the LIRR exist because of an experiment with a prototype called the C1. In the 1980s, the LIRR operated two types of trains, electric multiple units on the railroad's electrified lines, and diesel-locomotive-hauled trains on the non-electrified portions. Service into the borough of Manhattan was electric only. The rolling stock used for the LIRR's diesel service, P72 and P75 coaches, was aging, and there was political interest in offering a one-seat ride for commuters on the busy but only partially electrified Port Jefferson Branch. The LIRR decided to solve both problems simultaneously, it would acquire several dual-mode EMD FL9 locomotives from the Metro-North Railroad and buy a small fleet of new passenger cars to go with them. If the experiment was successful, it could proceed with a larger order and replace the diesel fleet. The Budd Company had built the M1 and M3, but by the mid-1980s, it was a subsidiary of Thyssen and exiting the railroad business. Therefore, in 1986, the LIRR approached Comeng, Budd's Australian licensee. The LIRR's original request for proposal, issued in 1986, called for a single-level design. This was due in part to the difficulties the railroad experienced with the PRR MP70 electric multiple units, which it had retired in 1972. Comeng however persuaded the LIRR to adopt a bilevel design instead. Three groups responded to the revised LIRR proposal, Comeng/Mitsui, Alsthom, and Sumitomo/Nippon Sharyo. The LIRR favored the Comeng design, but the company's ability to fulfill the contract was jeopardized by the instability of Australian National Industries, Comeng's corporate parent. In the end, Comeng sold the design of the C1 to Mitsui, who then engaged Tokyu Car Corporation to build the cars. The C3s were built by Kawasaki, and were updated based on several years' experience with the cars and feedback from passengers, with differences including 2-2 abreast and 2-1 abreast instead of 3-2 abreast, and including LED displays and automated announcements as well
as a Marylander ho lives in Philly, it pains me to see that SEPTA doesn't meet MARC at Wilmington like they do with NJT at Trenton. This could be the final step to connect all the NEC commuter lines! The tracks, stations and catenarys are all there!!
And to add to that debacle, the transit connection between the ends of MARC and SEPTA is a rather convoluted series of bus routes. There should be a push to link up MARC and SEPTA and CTRail and MBTA. With potentially linking CTRail and MBTA at both the CT/RI border and in Springfield.
There was no comment om the quality of the stations or weekend service. I used NJ Transit NEC line and some stations are shorter than the train, forcing riders to move thru the train to get off. Many of SEPTA stations are probably 100 years old or more and platforms are not "raised" meaning slow boarding and exiting.
I don’t really understand why people don’t like rail fanning, electric trains. They’re just as fun as all the others if you have enough variety. Plus electrification usually means better service so it can be a lot more fun because it’s almost constant.
@@OceanStateRail Which is funny because most diesel stock sounds fairly uniform whereas you can easily recognise an electric locomotive / EMU by its motors (i.e. I prefer the latter over the former).
@@MarioFanGamer659This. The most interesting diesels to me are bi-mode trains like the ALP 45s and the Class 80x where you can at least hear electric motors underneath the diesel engine. Other than that, they’re pretty boring imo.
For the Connecticut viewers/residents who want to see Shoreline Easy extended to Westerly, please write your local representatives in support. There are groups and organizations working to advocate for this project and all they need is more vocal and active support.
A level boarding platform is about all they would need to extend SLE to Westerly, maybe might also need a switch near the station to allow the SLE trains to turn around. Speeds aren't an issue, SLE M8s do 90mph which is max line speed between New Haven and Westerly so they won't be holding up Amtrak, line speeds don't go back to triple digits until east of Westerly.
@@ArmHope i think that would be a great connection! Right now, the Westerly connection is actively being explored and would be great for the local economy
As a civil engineer who worked on the New Haven Line (Metro-North in CT) as a design project manager on all sizes & types of capitol projects for 2+ decades, traveled extensively on, toured the maintenance & storage & operations facilities of, & interacted with middle & top management of all (besides Montreal's) of these other "neighbor" systems, I will add my Persnickety thoughts: - High level vs low level platforms/ADA access: The systems with all or mostly all hi level platforms operate at a far better "level" than ones with low level or at worst mixed types (where the conductors have to change the stairs at each station). LIRR, Metro-North, major lines on NJ Transit score high here. Most stations have "up & over's" (or under's). SEPTA, with it's mixture, & wooden grade crossings, is the worst of the major lines. MBTA is at least consistently Sucky. Lack of ADA access is still "grandfathered" after all these decades at "smaller" / non "key" stations. - Restrooms on the trains/ Homeless issues. SEPTA scores a MAJOR NEGATIVE here, opting to not have toilets on their trains. Trips are often more than an hour, & restrooms at the 3 major downtown stations are often closed. The homeless problems on SEPTA are really beyond the pale. SEPTA has zero control over this at stations & on the trains. They often defecate in the corners or in between cars. Conductors are utterly indifferent. Junkies shoot up right in the seats. No wonder most middle class Philadelphians avoid public transportation like the plague, because it is. Boston & NYC do a much better job on this. SEPTA management basically Sucks, most of their top brass are political appointees, with little to no practical experience running any sort of anything, even if only a soft pretzel cart at the Spectrum. - Service hours. Only the services in the orbit of NYC (Metro-North, NJ Transit, LIRR) operate after 10 or 11 pm. The others (Boston, Philly, Baltimore, DC) all roll up the tracks, some as early as 9pm. This is utterly useless for those of us who like to take in concerts, movies, plays, opera, etc, in downtown. So the "can I get by without a car?" factor takes a MAJOR hit for this. Certainly not if you like night life. Or Heaven Forbid not work 9 to 5. I live exactly halfway between Boston & NYC, & when I want to go to a city for "events", it's 100% always NYC if there's a choice, as I can take the train there & back, as the services run till 1:45 am. - Weekend service. The MD & VA services DO NOT run on weekends!!! This makes them useless for anyone like me who intends to use these services for tourist activities, ie, staying in a hotel near a station & taking the train into town. Similar to the night time service hours issue. Even Shoreline East, which has been cut back, still runs some weekend services. - Railfans. Really? No wonder those of us who actually work on the railroad call you Foamers as a non-Endearing description.
As a Long Island Railroad rider, seeing our sister railroad, Metro North, in the same tier as MARC and CT Rail is criminal. Metro North has phenomenal frequency during rush hour, in general west of Hudson trains have quite low frequency due to low population density and so do certain branch lines on the New Haven Line, however, the three main lines East of Hudson do an excellent job commuting people throughout the day. Furthermore, express schedules on these branches make buying a ticket on these trains far more superior to sitting in traffic on the I-95, Sprain Brook Pkwy or the Major Deegan making them extremely useful. I'd also like to say that M7s and M3s are beautiful to railfan, especially along the Hudson River! The M8s are gorgeous trains too along the NEC. There is nothing like seeing M7s, M3s, M8s and Diesels at Harlem 125th st among the beautiful NYC skyline. I mean, Metro North has some of the best railfanning opportunities in the country!
The Greenport Branch gets limited service because it's the last dark territory (as mentioned, no conventional signals) on the LIRR, it's single-tracked from Ronkonkoma all the way to Greenport, the North Fork is sparsely populated compared to the South Fork/Hamptons, and it mainly relies on seasonal tourism like its wineries. As someone who has regularly used the Montauk Branch, I very much prefer the M7s and M9s on the electric branches! Electric trains are not only better for the environment, but the M9s just look cool, and they have electrical outlets at every row on both sides of the car, and they display the car's position within a train! The Montauk Branch is by no means perfect. East of Babylon, it's only double-tracked up until Sayville, so it's a long stretch of non-electrified single-track between Sayville and Montauk with some sidings, Speonk yard is already at-capacity, they can't run more Penn-Montauk trains in particular because not all the locomotives are dual-mode to enter Penn (and they're too big to enter the tunnel to GCT), the EMD DE/DM30AC equipment breaking down, however having rush-hour service to Penn Station as well as Queens like Jamaica, Long Island City and Hunterspoint Ave is still superb! And besides serving the summer crowds heading to the Hamptons, it's also an important year-round corridor for those who live on the Montauk Branch's commuter portion between Speonk and Babylon, and a lifeline for those who live on Fire Island as the Montauk Branch has connections to the ferries for the nearly car-free Fire Island communities. But as someone who also spent the first eight years of my life in Westchester, my favorite commuter rail line remains the Metro-North's Hudson Line. Although I appreciate the LIRR's operations, I have a soft spot for MNR since the Hudson Line was the first train I've ever ridden, the Hudson Highlands and Hudson Palisades are straight up masterpieces and especially gorgeous in the fall, and I enjoy the walkable Hudson Line suburbs. I lived in Tarrytown when I was a kid, and when I lived there, everything was walkable, and we lived just up a hill from the station, so we didn't need a car for our everyday needs. Even if we wanted to go to the massive Palisades Center mall across the Hudson, there's a bus (formerly called the Tappan Zee Express) that goes between Tarrytown and the mall! Not to mention the beautiful scenery and they go all out for Halloween, definitely was the best place for child me to go trick or treating! Also worth mentioning that Metro-North has three stations dedicated for hikers, with two of them on the Hudson Line, Manitou and Breakneck Ridge! While Appalachian Trail on the Harlem Line is the only rail station directly located on the entire Appalachian Trail! And the Port Jervis Line is a gem too! Its 3,200 ft-long Moodna Viaduct is the longest and highest active railroad trestle east of the Mississippi River (second-longest and second-highest east of the Mississippi in general after the Poughkeepsie Bridge/Walkway over the Hudson)
As someone who grew up on NJT I think the frequency is kinda unfair because some of the most busiest stations such as NWP and NYP see trains every 5-8 Minutes which in my opinion is awesome. Also Not to mention that our fleet is awesome and diverse. I feel like the score should be raised for Railfan and Frequency
My boss wanted me to take a job in Manassas and I was excited about VRE until I saw the schedule and realized it's useless if you aren't heading towards DC in the morning and out in the afternoon. Pretty disappointing. Turned that job down.
Great video! Although, as a Long Islander, I DEMAND that the railfanning score be raised a few points, as the LIRR uses a fleet of MP15ACs for several MOW trains and equipment moves that aren't scheduled, which always adds to some sort of unpredictability when it comes to consists. So I say railfanning should AT LEAST be a 7.
I think you should have added coverage area as a metric. MBTA in particular has a staggeringly large coverage area relative to the population of the Metro Boston area, while SEPTA has a surprisingly small coverage area for how many lines it has.
marc being rated above mbta is a bit absurd because of the fact that its penn line is like literally the only line on marc that gets attention out of its three lines, as well as serving less people over all, as well as the railroad not having much going on with its future, since there arent really any plans of them being interested in wanting to expand and upgrade their electric locomotive fleet, and another thing i feel like thats pretty flawed with the list is that the njt and the mbta are rated much lower than they should be because of their amazing passenger coverage. both commuter railroads have very bright futures of wanting to expand, and upgrade their systems commuter frequences with the future projects like the gateway tunnel project and the proposed orders of the new emu bilevels of the njt, and the proposed nsrl, begging the state of new hampshire to extend the lowell line with the state of new hampshire's capital. there's proposals within both systems that its disrespectful of not mentioning their efforts of wanting to improve, but to keep it simple, both systems want to improve their own system, but are clearly hindered because these projects they want to get done needs state and governmental approval to get passed. but for functionality, the lirr would be deserving of being rated highly since many of their trains run 24/7, and the njt because of how frequent they run their trains along the northeast corridor that only bostonians would dream of having service like that. to anyone who clicked this comment, i am SORRY you have to see a wall of yapfest 😭
@@boston_and_maine I just imagine that if Boston were New York, the north side and south side commuter rail would operate under two different brands with separate staff, management, fare structures, operating patterns, and rolling stock, probably somehow end up with incompatible infrastructure, and shut down any talk of NSRL.
I'm just not a fan of diesel trains. They're loud, noisy, and just antiquated. I much prefer hearing a silent bullet travel by me at high speeds or the propulsion of an EMU. That's what makes trains special to me. But overall I think this list is pretty good and of course everyone will have their own biases and preferences.
You are right! USA is the latest country in the world who's not in the metric system. Mainly if you name this group the "Worldwide RailFan." At last, you should mention in visal writing at the bottom of the picture ............. that way, you could have fans around the globe.
How tf can you give MBTA a 6 for the frequency score while you give NJT a 5 for frequency. That makes no sense at all with NJT's North East Corridor line running trains every 20-30 minutes.
septa in general is great for railfans and transit enthusiasts because of its extremely diverse network (trolleybuses, trolleys, buses, subways, trains, norristown line). Also, I think its frequency is pretty great especially coming from someone living in the middle of one of the less popular lines (media/wawa) which at extremely peak times can come every 15 minutes, and come on extremely off-peak times at least every hour
West of Hudson does not need a replacement. The units run well and are good emds, even though they are old. Overall I don't like the modernity category (ignore that a geep crapped itself for NJT yesterday) as the old stuff normally run well on metro north and NJT.
Something that bugs me of the modernity scale: little known fact is that Amtrak charges out the nose for commuter railroads to use its catenary on the NEC. MARC for sure, and likely NJT/MBTA, diesel their NEC trains as the fuel cost is loads cheaper than the electricity fee from Amtrak.
Thought this was a really good ep, but as a biased* NYer, wanted to give my take on your LIRR/Metro-North scores: 1. I think both lines should get higher railfan scores - unlike a lot of other commuter lines, you can more easily railfan them because they follow NYC subway lines or are directly on, below, or at street level in the boroughs, so you don't need a car or stay within the station limits to take photos. 2. Both lines are also surrounded with historic railroad infrastructure that's leagues beyond any other system. Getting to start your journey at Grand Central on Metro-North or watch LIRR trains shoot through Sunnyside Yard with NJT and Amtrak in the background is awesome. 3. I'd give Metro-North a slightly higher score for utility, as it carries almost as many passengers per day/annually as LIRR but across a much more diverse and complex system. It also has to work with regulations and funding across 3 different states, and has a more diverse power/EMU roster then other lines to support it. 4. Something I think is worth mentioning is price per ride, like if the peak/off-peak fares are cheap or expensive enough to make a difference. LIRR/Metro-North would score decently there, but I think quickly reviewing how fare price correlates to system expansions would be interesting and definitely more accurately shows the pain points of Northeast area lines.
“Pretty” and “solid” aren’t acceptable metrics for ranking these systems. You need some hard numbers to do legit comparisons. Until then, this is purely a subjective approximation.
I genuinely cannot believe that you gave the VRE the same railfan score as the Exo. The F59s might be some of the ugliest passenger locomotives built in the last half century, and VRE’s are some of the best. Plus, VRE always keeps the gallery cars nice and shiny and the run down the Potomac really has some gorgeous moments, to say nothing of the views of the Jefferson Memorial and the Washington Monument on the way into DC.
I completely agree ! The VRE Gallery cars are probably the best in the U.S, as they are well maintained and kept clean. As for the locos, the standardisation on MPI locos is very sensible, and they too look great, and are kept clean !
MARC is upgrading the Brunswick Line and the Penn Line is also going to serve Delaware soon to connect to SEPTA and thru-run Union Station to serve stops in Northern Virginia providing a one seat ride from VA to DE
Love this series! I understand the ranking system, but I really think MARC should be higher! True, the Penn Line’s scenery isn’t very remarkable, but the Camden Line has some nice spots (not to mention its historic right of way) and the Brunswick Line has amazing views, especially along the Potomac and around Harpers Ferry! Plus, those old single-level cars have a certain charm to them! Looking forward to the rest of the series!
Great ranking! Would have loved to see it considered that CTRail ordered new rolling stock, expected to be in service in 2026, and that the Hartford line is capable of 110mph through newer rolling stock and Amtrak cars.
From New London CT or Springfield MA, one could take commuter rail to Newark Delaware. Only transfer is from Grand Central to NY Penn station by either walking or 2 subway lines.
Must say, I have been to the Northeast Corridor. ONE THING I KNOW ABOUT NJT AND IT'S STATIONS: Newark Penn Station is busy meaning there are trains every 3-10 minutes on peak/rush hour, especially being more busy on Fridays for NJ Transit.
LIRR is a lifeline if you are a tourist looking to save money on hotels. It has a big history in both pop culture and the real world. For NY locals it can get very noisy especially during the Yankees games. (Not revealing what baseball team, I am rooting for but Inside Edition did a news report about how much delirium there is on Saturdays or game days). Also MTA is one of those transit agencies where they don't opt for traditional locomotives such as the f59phi or MP36PH-3C. I took the liberty of asking native New Yorkers and the response was insane. Some say it's due to curb appeal others say NY laws ban the locomotives. Metro North is a train I want to ride too for reasons I don't know.
I believe that while LIRR doesnt have physical signals everywhere, they have PTC (ACSES and ATC) in-cab signalling... not sure, but I am pretty positive they also have those in the diesel locos as PTC is mandatory
I think you missed an important category, on-time performance. In my experience SEPTA has a high rate of cancellations due to "equipment problems" which is their euphemism for "the crew didn't show up" as well as stranding passengers by shutting down mid-day in bad weather after taking them to work in the morning.
metro north deserves a 7 for modernity imo, esp considering the upcoming fleets of SC42DM dual mode diesels and M9A EMUs. I believe it also deserves an 8 for railfanning (at least) but hey, im a little biased. Good vid!
Overall I really enjoyed your video, great commentary and footage! But as a Worcester MA native I have to object to the MBTA CR getting a 6 on frequency. During weekdays on peak times trains from Worcester leave roughly every 45 minutes to an hour, but after peak and on weekends that goes to every two hours. For comparison I took Metro North for the first time a couple years ago to/from NYC and New Haven (another terminal station and mid-sized city, like Worcester) - multiple trains an hour on for most of day on the weekends, and hourly off-peak (also not including Amtrak Northeast Regional and Acela)!
As someone who grew up railfanning Marc in and around dc (mostly on the camden line) the railfan experience varies wildly on which line you choose. There's nothing really special about the Camden line. They almost always run MP36s with no plans to electrify and the scenery is just a bunch of industrial areas and some major roads. The Brunswick line is my absolute favorite to railfan solely based in scenery You pass many cute railroad towns with museums, and cabooses, Not to mention cutting through the mountain and flying over the potomac at Harpers Ferry. The Penn line does have the best variety of locomotives in my opinion.
I'm not sure you should dock a system for having a few low frequency lines. A system with 2 A tier lines and 2 F tier lines is still better than a system with 2 A tier lines and no other trains.
I think you've over ranking the MBTA. As a regular commuter on the Lowell line who once commuted in the Philly area, what I tell everyone is that I never needed to know the train schedule in Philly, but you definitely need to know the schedule on the T because they only run trains every hour - at peak. I would score the MBTA no high than a 4 for frequency. As for usefulness, one has to drive pretty good distance to get the the limited number of lines that the T runs - I can't see a score over 5 here. Sorry, but as a regular user of the service, Keolis and the Commonwealth could do a whole lot better... but loved the video!
ct trains should also run traind from new haven tinland to danbury, waterburyand new cannan that alreasdy have trains o nyc. also may runing some acros the new haven urban area.
Some branch lines have low frequency because they have low ridership, for instance, Septa's Cynwyd line. I once rode this line during rush hour and there were literally 5 people on the train. For lines that don't see that much ridership, we shouldn't expect a train every 45 minutes because that's a waste of services if people aren't using them
So for vre is actually getting a new paint scheme here soon rumored to be a lot like Amtrak phase 6 but with a lot more patters so that 4 could change real soon
MARC likes to keep diesels so it can keep flexibility open incase a train needs be moved from the penn like to Camden or Brunswick, altho those lines lack service due to CSX, altho they have tries as well as proposed a plan to meet up with SEPTA in Newark DE
Altho I find it crazy how MARCs GP40,GP39 and GP40W being left out as they can be seen around fairly often, not to mention the only commuter to still have AEM7s altho sadly unable to operate hence why they was retired
I wouldn’t deduct points from modernity due to diesel hauled equipment. Keep in mind, electrification is “very” expensive. A system must certainly have the ridership and demand to justify the cost. Also, Metro North adjusted its mix of diesel hauled and EMU equipment after a blizzard from many years earlier left the system unable to provide service for a few days as to the time needed to dig out the 3rd rail and repair some damage to that infrastructure. Diesels off we more flexibility and overall reliability. Modern engines are available. Otherwise a great and enjoyable video!
When the new Airo-trainsets for the NEC arrive, Amtrak will replace some ACS-64s on the regional services with the new dual-mode trains. Rumors say, that Amtrak will sell some of the ACS-64. I really hope that at least MARC will buy some of the ACS-64. MTBA could also consider the purchase of some locomotives, but they have no affinity and experience with electric trains, so i don't think, that this will happen.
As a Philadelphian, I will say that your SEPTA score is VERY generous. Train frequency is subpar at best, and they do NOT do a good job of accommodating the schedule for events such as sports, concerts, etc. Off-peak, most lines only run once an hour, and the Bala Cynwyd line does not run at all outside of peak hours. That means if you miss your train by one minute, you're waiting an hour for the next one, which really sucks if you're trying to return to the suburbs after a ballgame or a night of bar hopping. Add on the fact that the center city stations are full of homeless people, the Dunkin Donuts close around 9:30-10pm, and it's impossible to find a working outlet to charge your phone, and it makes for a pretty unpleasant experience. Ok, I'm done my SEPTA rant lol. Aside from my disagreement there, this is a great video! Definitely agree on the points you made for NJ Transit and Metro North, as I've traveled on their lines before and would give them about the same score as you did.
Yes, we need more commuter trains. We also need more Non Commuter passenger trains to expand. I would vote on bills to expand commuter for more interstate and international travel for mainline railroads and more commuter trains for both Mainline Shortline and Branchline railroads.
Bro did LIRR and MNR dirty on the railfan score💀 LIRR’s electric territory is the best to railfan: trains every 5 minutes going 80 MPH, never know if it’ll be an M3 M7 M9… or even a DM30AC!
SEPTA operates the only fully electrified commuter rail system in the US (at least until CalTrain electrification debuts). In 2024 that deserves a special mention and score.
Our local railway VRE may not have a different locomotive but back then they had the F40s and some other engine idk the name of. And the scenery may not be as nice but that’s all your opinion.
Marc using diesel under wires is a policy failure not an equipment oversight. They would be obligated to pay an insane premium on those volts, making diesel the far cheaper option. This is an insane situation they have to deal with for now.
EXO is a commuter rail I want to ride. They are trying their best to update their equipment. From what I heard it's popularity is not as good as the US but they are a decent commuter train that does a somewhat good job in connecting the big city (Montreal) to the small towns nearby.. If you do a review on trams in US and Canada, Le REM could be a top performer. If you are a single guy who wants to be alone or with best friends, EXO is the way to go.
As someone who has used MARC for thousands of miles. I believe that MARC is one of, if not the worst, on the NEC. The only thing MARC has going for them is the PENN line, and the scheduleing for the PENN line is horrible on weekends and not the greatest on weekdays. The scheduling on the Brunswick and camden line is a joke. No weekend service,trains are always late. The Brunswick line only has trains traveling southeast in the morning and back northwest in the afternoon. 9 trains each way on the Brunswick line and 10 trains each way on the Camden line. Plus, the Brunswick line has 3 terminals Martinsburg WV, Brunswick MD, and Frederick MD. Only 6 trains travel to and from Martinsburg 3 each way. Same with Frederick. Brunswick gets 12 a day, 6 each way. Only half the route actually gets served by all 18 trains a day. Covid also hit MARC like a truck and keeps falling behind in the actual list of Commuter rails in the USA.
@WorldwideRailfan ...You claim to make videos that explain how railways around the world work. This video doesn't explain why you consider non-US commuter rail a part of a US ranking of commuter rails. Your Canadian content missed Metrolink and the GO network. Another commenter suggested that Toronto will appear in your Midwest rankings. First off, Canada has no "midwest'. Second, Torontonians don't identify with the Midwest any more than folks in Buffalo or Rochester or Oswego. Neither do Windsor or Sarnia, even though they're across the river from Detroit. Please make an effort to live up to your handle and I may consider joining your channel. You're a hard marker and I like that in foamers!
I guess I'm not deep enough into the train fan world yet, because I don't see what's so boring about EMUs. Maybe I'm just in California, which is about to get what is to my knowledge the state's first non-metro-style EMU trains in the new Caltrain Stadlers, which will bring significant travel time and frequency improvements and basically in one fell swoop make Caltrain a useful transit line, which I think is very exciting. In fact, I'm in the East Bay, and recently started dating someone on the Peninsula, and I'm hoping this relationship flourishes so that I have an excuse to go to the Peninsula and ride the new trains when they enter service. And also because I really like her, but, well, trains.
I’m also in the East bay too! I went to to Caltrain electrification train tour back in May and the Caltrain stadler EMUs have a modern interior. I can’t wait to ride the new Caltrain EMUs too when they enter service and I’ve only ridden the Caltrain diesel fleet once.
As a train fan, I don't find EMUs boring at all. I love them a lot, and heck, I like most of them more than the Diesels. The Railfanning category in this video, is iffy, if I'm being honest.
I have one complaint... Septa should be its own tier BELOW F because its the literal WORST railroad in the Northeast. coming from both an engineers perspective and railfans perspective. ( no i am not a transit engineer but i do have friends who work for them and everyone else ive asked said septa is trash) Aside from that good video!
@@toetankgr no it's not, it's a terrible railroad and here's why, If you want a railfanners perspective it's so bland 0 equipment variety. And from an engineers/conductors perspective it doesn't pay shit. That's why most people either work on transit or Metro North
I don’t think it’s fair to judge frequencies of a vast system like metro north while including their branch lines. Other systems like Caltrain are literally just a main line. I am almost 100% positive the main lines of metro north are individually more frequent than any commuter rail in the west. Also having some low frequency branch lines is a GOOD thing because that means rail has been extended to locations with lower demand and population. This allows for growth!
I will not stand for this level of EMU slander! The M8’s are gorgeous and the M7’s have some of the best sounding traction motors in North America!
yeah, M8s look sleek and are so much quieter than the diesel locomotives. I live in Chicago, and I live next to the UP north line. Every single fricking day, loud ass F40's thunder through the city. I'm not trying to send hate to those locomotives, but they are so loud. I wish that Metra would simply just modernize and electrify their lines. There are SO many perks with doing this. Hell, half of Metra's fleet is 20-50 years old, and they need new locomotives.
@@CR157-v6w Every railroad on the planet should be electrified. Electric trains have been operating in regular revenue service for over 140 years. They predate diesel by several decades and handily beat it in literally every single performance metric there is- they're lighter, they're quieter, they accelerate faster, they put out higher torque, they reach higher top speeds, they last longer, they're cheaper to buy, maintain, and operate, and they have effectively infinite range. There is absolutely no justification for there to be even a single combustion-driven train still in regular revenue service anywhere on Earth.
@@johnsmith9165 Top services I personally want to see electrified that aren't yet: Coaster in San Diego (also, build the Downtown station and the Del Mar tunnel, and let the service run all the way to LA Union), Metrolink in LA, and Capitol Corridor in the Bay Area.
Caltrain also technically still counts for that list, but is less than three months from actually starting electrified revenue service, so it gets a pass. It just needs to finish extending to Salesforce Transit Center and also electrify down to the Gilroy terminus. CAHSR is gonna get there eventually, might as well be ready when it does, right?
@@CR157-v6wYeah instead of buying used locomotives you mind as well buy new ones. Shoot I was so thrilled Metra took a risk with Stadler.
M7 acceleration sounds are the best
Not the greatest ranking system, namely because of:
1. No commentary on station quality, be it how they look in general or how convenient the experience in them is. The train itself is one thing, getting to and from it through the station is another.
2. A hyper-subjective 'railfan' category that reads like you're speaking for five people when you say a line is enjoyable to 'railfan' on. If you want to talk about which rail networks you think offer the most interesting appeal from the perspective of a 'railfan', please separate it from the objective criteria for the sake of ranking integrity.
At the end of the day, the commuter's experience comes first. It's not about which lines are fun to look at, but which get the job done the best.
Agreed , the railfan category should be replaced with a cleanliness of trains and stations , on time ratings and perhaps station facilties to make the scoring more sense . The railfan category as he mentions goes against some categories , but i suppose it is really mostly railfans that watch this video .
@@ShinodaChan AMEN!!!!
I literally stopped watching because of the sheer stupidity he was sputtering especially about the MTA commuter railroads into and out of NYC
If anything, the railfan category should only be worth 5 points since to mark how less important it is than the other categories.
The title of this needs changing from "U.S." to North American, since you have included Canada
Edit: This has been addressed in the second episode. Thanks to WorldwideRailFan for explaining why this is the case.
Canada is not part of the US for now
Canada is basically the US but really nice eh
@@s.s.99no its not lmao its canada
@@s.s.99what do you think right now
@@s.s.99 This a lie. Canadians aren't half as nice as we've been led to believe.
You got to give Long Island railroad more more credit For every single platform being high level
Same goes for MNR.
With the exception of Port Jervis Trains
@@kirkrotger9208 I can name a few stations that aren't high level (yet), off memory.
Manitou, Derby, Appalachian Trail, Ansonia, Breakneck Ridge, Nanuet, Sloatsburg, Campbell Hall, Beacon Falls, and Seymour. There's probably a few more, but that's all I remember off memory.
So we can't give MNR that same award.
@rawgem5356 I guess, but with the exception of the few Waterbury branch stations, those are all either stations for hiking or West of Hudson, so I'm not sure we can count them.
@@kirkrotger9208 West of Hudson, yet built and owned by Metro North, in New York, therefore those ones count (regardless of any "consistency" based reason. Stations in Jersey are discounted tho). Therefore, absolutely no reason to discount the Port Jervis Line's & Pascack Valley Line's stations that are in NY. Suffern is kinda the only exception to the rule.
Good point on Appalachian Trail, Breakneck Ridge, and Manitou. They get a pass for their main purpose of serving hikers.
Interesting fact: Derby Station is planned to be elevated and cleaned up. Not exactly sure when it will happen, but I hope it'll be sooner than later.
Edit: When it does happen, I'll go up there to check it out :)
I'm sorry, but NJT getting the same frequency score as VRE is absurd as a New Jerseyan. VRE has only peak-direction service throughout its network with only 1-2 reverse-peak directions trains on the Manassas Line. NJT has plenty of express and local peak service trains out of both New York Penn and Hoboken, and all lines except the Montclair-Boonton Line and Raritan Valley Line west of Raritan have off-peak service of some kind. And those two lines serve some of the least-used territory on the system that probably lacks the ridership to make expanded service viable. All NJT Lines in North Jersey also have weekend service at least once every 2 hours but once every hour on most lines. The Atlantic City Line also functions more as an intercity line with its far stop spacing and lack of peak-centric frequency and its ridership patterns reflect that. I also think SEPTA's 2-hour weekend headways on its NEC lines makes it a lot less useful since it's super hard to time an NJT connection to it if I'm trying to get to Philly without taking Amtrak. I don't know enough about any other system to comment though but most of the rankings seem fair on the surface.
NJT need to run the NE corridor train to 30th in Philly with limited stops at Woodhaven, North Philly and 30th
@@pcariola1 idk where woodhaven is but Amtrak handles the express service between Philly and NY.
@@nathanjiang100 it’s a station off 95 with lots of parking could be like Hamilton station in Jersey
@@pcariola1 there's not a single "woodhaven" station on the entire northeast corridor, unless you're talking about a fictional station
@@nathanjiang100 May go by Cornwells heights
The railfanning category seems way too subjective: the M8s are some of the best looking trains in the northeast imo and I dont see why points are deducted for using them
Yeah, it's a pretty pointless category. Should focus more on an objective overview of the railroads like with the other categories rather than needless subjectivity.
EMUs are boring as hell
@@NorthEastTransitProductionsthey are efficient
@@NorthEastTransitProductionssays the dude that films them
I stan all the EMUs. Especially the M7s & M8s!
It's worth mentioning that all LIRR stations have high-level platforms! Electric stations were rebuilt to be high-level when they got the M1s in the 1960s, the increased power demand forced the LIRR to update its third rail power supply, and the diesel stations got them in the 1990s for the C3s! The M1s were actually built with a top speed of 161 km/h and support for Automatic Train Operation, however, they only achieved 129 km/h in service due to track and signaling limitations, and the Automatic Train Operation was never seen in service. The C3s on the LIRR exist because of an experiment with a prototype called the C1. In the 1980s, the LIRR operated two types of trains, electric multiple units on the railroad's electrified lines, and diesel-locomotive-hauled trains on the non-electrified portions. Service into the borough of Manhattan was electric only. The rolling stock used for the LIRR's diesel service, P72 and P75 coaches, was aging, and there was political interest in offering a one-seat ride for commuters on the busy but only partially electrified Port Jefferson Branch.
The LIRR decided to solve both problems simultaneously, it would acquire several dual-mode EMD FL9 locomotives from the Metro-North Railroad and buy a small fleet of new passenger cars to go with them. If the experiment was successful, it could proceed with a larger order and replace the diesel fleet. The Budd Company had built the M1 and M3, but by the mid-1980s, it was a subsidiary of Thyssen and exiting the railroad business. Therefore, in 1986, the LIRR approached Comeng, Budd's Australian licensee. The LIRR's original request for proposal, issued in 1986, called for a single-level design. This was due in part to the difficulties the railroad experienced with the PRR MP70 electric multiple units, which it had retired in 1972. Comeng however persuaded the LIRR to adopt a bilevel design instead. Three groups responded to the revised LIRR proposal, Comeng/Mitsui, Alsthom, and Sumitomo/Nippon Sharyo. The LIRR favored the Comeng design, but the company's ability to fulfill the contract was jeopardized by the instability of Australian National Industries, Comeng's corporate parent. In the end, Comeng sold the design of the C1 to Mitsui, who then engaged Tokyu Car Corporation to build the cars. The C3s were built by Kawasaki, and were updated based on several years' experience with the cars and feedback from passengers, with differences including 2-2 abreast and 2-1 abreast instead of 3-2 abreast, and including LED displays and automated announcements as well
as a Marylander ho lives in Philly, it pains me to see that SEPTA doesn't meet MARC at Wilmington like they do with NJT at Trenton. This could be the final step to connect all the NEC commuter lines! The tracks, stations and catenarys are all there!!
The Wickford-New London gap would still remain. An equally unnecessary break.
And to add to that debacle, the transit connection between the ends of MARC and SEPTA is a rather convoluted series of bus routes. There should be a push to link up MARC and SEPTA and CTRail and MBTA. With potentially linking CTRail and MBTA at both the CT/RI border and in Springfield.
I feel your pain. I long for the day I can take a MARC to Delaware and transfer to Septa for an electrified journey into Philly.
MARC would meet at Newark, not Wilmington
@@bahnspotterEU RIPTA really needs to fix that
There was no comment om the quality of the stations or weekend service. I used NJ Transit NEC line and some stations are shorter than the train, forcing riders to move thru the train to get off. Many of SEPTA stations are probably 100 years old or more and platforms are not "raised" meaning slow boarding and exiting.
I don’t really understand why people don’t like rail fanning, electric trains. They’re just as fun as all the others if you have enough variety. Plus electrification usually means better service so it can be a lot more fun because it’s almost constant.
Might have to do with a preference of the thrash of diesel over the electric PWM noise of an electric train.
@@OceanStateRail Which is funny because most diesel stock sounds fairly uniform whereas you can easily recognise an electric locomotive / EMU by its motors (i.e. I prefer the latter over the former).
@@MarioFanGamer659This. The most interesting diesels to me are bi-mode trains like the ALP 45s and the Class 80x where you can at least hear electric motors underneath the diesel engine. Other than that, they’re pretty boring imo.
@@MarioFanGamer659 Not really… Most people can tell an EMD from a GE and other small details
@@SavvDaDon I rather just see an ACS-64 and hear it
For the Connecticut viewers/residents who want to see Shoreline Easy extended to Westerly, please write your local representatives in support. There are groups and organizations working to advocate for this project and all they need is more vocal and active support.
A level boarding platform is about all they would need to extend SLE to Westerly, maybe might also need a switch near the station to allow the SLE trains to turn around. Speeds aren't an issue, SLE M8s do 90mph which is max line speed between New Haven and Westerly so they won't be holding up Amtrak, line speeds don't go back to triple digits until east of Westerly.
@@mrvwbug4423 great points! There are groups working to secure that funding and political will.
I would rather connect to Worcester MA
@@ArmHope i think that would be a great connection! Right now, the Westerly connection is actively being explored and would be great for the local economy
@@mrvwbug4423 we are working on asking our state government to apply for grants to elevate the platforms. Hopefully soon!
As a civil engineer who worked on the New Haven Line (Metro-North in CT) as a design project manager on all sizes & types of capitol projects for 2+ decades, traveled extensively on, toured the maintenance & storage & operations facilities of, & interacted with middle & top management of all (besides Montreal's) of these other "neighbor" systems, I will add my Persnickety thoughts:
- High level vs low level platforms/ADA access: The systems with all or mostly all hi level platforms operate at a far better "level" than ones with low level or at worst mixed types (where the conductors have to change the stairs at each station). LIRR, Metro-North, major lines on NJ Transit score high here. Most stations have "up & over's" (or under's). SEPTA, with it's mixture, & wooden grade crossings, is the worst of the major lines. MBTA is at least consistently Sucky. Lack of ADA access is still "grandfathered" after all these decades at "smaller" / non "key" stations.
- Restrooms on the trains/ Homeless issues. SEPTA scores a MAJOR NEGATIVE here, opting to not have toilets on their trains. Trips are often more than an hour, & restrooms at the 3 major downtown stations are often closed. The homeless problems on SEPTA are really beyond the pale. SEPTA has zero control over this at stations & on the trains. They often defecate in the corners or in between cars. Conductors are utterly indifferent. Junkies shoot up right in the seats. No wonder most middle class Philadelphians avoid public transportation like the plague, because it is. Boston & NYC do a much better job on this. SEPTA management basically Sucks, most of their top brass are political appointees, with little to no practical experience running any sort of anything, even if only a soft pretzel cart at the Spectrum.
- Service hours. Only the services in the orbit of NYC (Metro-North, NJ Transit, LIRR) operate after 10 or 11 pm. The others (Boston, Philly, Baltimore, DC) all roll up the tracks, some as early as 9pm. This is utterly useless for those of us who like to take in concerts, movies, plays, opera, etc, in downtown. So the "can I get by without a car?" factor takes a MAJOR hit for this. Certainly not if you like night life. Or Heaven Forbid not work 9 to 5. I live exactly halfway between Boston & NYC, & when I want to go to a city for "events", it's 100% always NYC if there's a choice, as I can take the train there & back, as the services run till 1:45 am.
- Weekend service. The MD & VA services DO NOT run on weekends!!! This makes them useless for anyone like me who intends to use these services for tourist activities, ie, staying in a hotel near a station & taking the train into town. Similar to the night time service hours issue. Even Shoreline East, which has been cut back, still runs some weekend services.
- Railfans. Really? No wonder those of us who actually work on the railroad call you Foamers as a non-Endearing description.
As a Long Island Railroad rider, seeing our sister railroad, Metro North, in the same tier as MARC and CT Rail is criminal. Metro North has phenomenal frequency during rush hour, in general west of Hudson trains have quite low frequency due to low population density and so do certain branch lines on the New Haven Line, however, the three main lines East of Hudson do an excellent job commuting people throughout the day. Furthermore, express schedules on these branches make buying a ticket on these trains far more superior to sitting in traffic on the I-95, Sprain Brook Pkwy or the Major Deegan making them extremely useful. I'd also like to say that M7s and M3s are beautiful to railfan, especially along the Hudson River! The M8s are gorgeous trains too along the NEC. There is nothing like seeing M7s, M3s, M8s and Diesels at Harlem 125th st among the beautiful NYC skyline. I mean, Metro North has some of the best railfanning opportunities in the country!
The Greenport Branch gets limited service because it's the last dark territory (as mentioned, no conventional signals) on the LIRR, it's single-tracked from Ronkonkoma all the way to Greenport, the North Fork is sparsely populated compared to the South Fork/Hamptons, and it mainly relies on seasonal tourism like its wineries. As someone who has regularly used the Montauk Branch, I very much prefer the M7s and M9s on the electric branches! Electric trains are not only better for the environment, but the M9s just look cool, and they have electrical outlets at every row on both sides of the car, and they display the car's position within a train! The Montauk Branch is by no means perfect. East of Babylon, it's only double-tracked up until Sayville, so it's a long stretch of non-electrified single-track between Sayville and Montauk with some sidings, Speonk yard is already at-capacity, they can't run more Penn-Montauk trains in particular because not all the locomotives are dual-mode to enter Penn (and they're too big to enter the tunnel to GCT), the EMD DE/DM30AC equipment breaking down, however having rush-hour service to Penn Station as well as Queens like Jamaica, Long Island City and Hunterspoint Ave is still superb! And besides serving the summer crowds heading to the Hamptons, it's also an important year-round corridor for those who live on the Montauk Branch's commuter portion between Speonk and Babylon, and a lifeline for those who live on Fire Island as the Montauk Branch has connections to the ferries for the nearly car-free Fire Island communities.
But as someone who also spent the first eight years of my life in Westchester, my favorite commuter rail line remains the Metro-North's Hudson Line. Although I appreciate the LIRR's operations, I have a soft spot for MNR since the Hudson Line was the first train I've ever ridden, the Hudson Highlands and Hudson Palisades are straight up masterpieces and especially gorgeous in the fall, and I enjoy the walkable Hudson Line suburbs. I lived in Tarrytown when I was a kid, and when I lived there, everything was walkable, and we lived just up a hill from the station, so we didn't need a car for our everyday needs. Even if we wanted to go to the massive Palisades Center mall across the Hudson, there's a bus (formerly called the Tappan Zee Express) that goes between Tarrytown and the mall! Not to mention the beautiful scenery and they go all out for Halloween, definitely was the best place for child me to go trick or treating! Also worth mentioning that Metro-North has three stations dedicated for hikers, with two of them on the Hudson Line, Manitou and Breakneck Ridge! While Appalachian Trail on the Harlem Line is the only rail station directly located on the entire Appalachian Trail! And the Port Jervis Line is a gem too! Its 3,200 ft-long Moodna Viaduct is the longest and highest active railroad trestle east of the Mississippi River (second-longest and second-highest east of the Mississippi in general after the Poughkeepsie Bridge/Walkway over the Hudson)
As someone who grew up on NJT I think the frequency is kinda unfair because some of the most busiest stations such as NWP and NYP see trains every 5-8 Minutes which in my opinion is awesome. Also Not to mention that our fleet is awesome and diverse. I feel like the score should be raised for Railfan and Frequency
VRE not being F tier is the biggest surprise of this whole video
My boss wanted me to take a job in Manassas and I was excited about VRE until I saw the schedule and realized it's useless if you aren't heading towards DC in the morning and out in the afternoon. Pretty disappointing. Turned that job down.
7:03 actually it’s the Maryland Area Regional Commuter
Hartford line is getting new locomotives in a couple years, they also combine their schedule with Amtrak’s to offer a decent amount of trains per day
Except on SLE, New London sees more Amtrak service than CTRail commuter service. Most NE Regionals stop in New London.
Great video! Although, as a Long Islander, I DEMAND that the railfanning score be raised a few points, as the LIRR uses a fleet of MP15ACs for several MOW trains and equipment moves that aren't scheduled, which always adds to some sort of unpredictability when it comes to consists. So I say railfanning should AT LEAST be a 7.
Preach, Pensy!
LIRR is boring with the exception on Diesel and NYAR
Amtrak should give some their ACS-64s to MARC
The thing is Amtrak charges MARC a lot of money to use their catenary that’s why MARC would rather run diesels.
And MBTA
@@gb9727 How would they charge MBTA? They still use diesels and MBTA has plans to use battery trains.
They have, Marc has a couple of their locomotives running on weekday express trains, sometimes though they run, not always
I think you should have added coverage area as a metric. MBTA in particular has a staggeringly large coverage area relative to the population of the Metro Boston area, while SEPTA has a surprisingly small coverage area for how many lines it has.
marc being rated above mbta is a bit absurd because of the fact that its penn line is like literally the only line on marc that gets attention out of its three lines, as well as serving less people over all, as well as the railroad not having much going on with its future, since there arent really any plans of them being interested in wanting to expand and upgrade their electric locomotive fleet, and another thing i feel like thats pretty flawed with the list is that the njt and the mbta are rated much lower than they should be because of their amazing passenger coverage.
both commuter railroads have very bright futures of wanting to expand, and upgrade their systems commuter frequences with the future projects like the gateway tunnel project and the proposed orders of the new emu bilevels of the njt, and the proposed nsrl, begging the state of new hampshire to extend the lowell line with the state of new hampshire's capital.
there's proposals within both systems that its disrespectful of not mentioning their efforts of wanting to improve, but to keep it simple, both systems want to improve their own system, but are clearly hindered because these projects they want to get done needs state and governmental approval to get passed.
but for functionality, the lirr would be deserving of being rated highly since many of their trains run 24/7, and the njt because of how frequent they run their trains along the northeast corridor that only bostonians would dream of having service like that.
to anyone who clicked this comment, i am SORRY you have to see a wall of yapfest 😭
@@boston_and_maine I just imagine that if Boston were New York, the north side and south side commuter rail would operate under two different brands with separate staff, management, fare structures, operating patterns, and rolling stock, probably somehow end up with incompatible infrastructure, and shut down any talk of NSRL.
I'm just not a fan of diesel trains. They're loud, noisy, and just antiquated. I much prefer hearing a silent bullet travel by me at high speeds or the propulsion of an EMU. That's what makes trains special to me. But overall I think this list is pretty good and of course everyone will have their own biases and preferences.
there should be a metric about both how well the line conect to both eachother and to local buses
You are right! USA is the latest country in the world who's not in the metric system. Mainly if you name this group the "Worldwide RailFan."
At last, you should mention in visal writing at the bottom of the picture ............. that way, you could have fans around the globe.
How tf can you give MBTA a 6 for the frequency score while you give NJT a 5 for frequency. That makes no sense at all with NJT's North East Corridor line running trains every 20-30 minutes.
yeah for sure seems like massive bias to me
Cause if that’s the only one they run those frequencies on then it gets beat by the MBTA
septa in general is great for railfans and transit enthusiasts because of its extremely diverse network (trolleybuses, trolleys, buses, subways, trains, norristown line). Also, I think its frequency is pretty great especially coming from someone living in the middle of one of the less popular lines (media/wawa) which at extremely peak times can come every 15 minutes, and come on extremely off-peak times at least every hour
West of Hudson does not need a replacement. The units run well and are good emds, even though they are old.
Overall I don't like the modernity category (ignore that a geep crapped itself for NJT yesterday) as the old stuff normally run well on metro north and NJT.
3rd rail and modernity in the same sentence is mind boggling.
By that same logic, Overhead Power is also far from modernity.
@VermyScrubs I mean it isn't new, but it's definitely more modern.
But yeah the important part is the current
Something that bugs me of the modernity scale: little known fact is that Amtrak charges out the nose for commuter railroads to use its catenary on the NEC. MARC for sure, and likely NJT/MBTA, diesel their NEC trains as the fuel cost is loads cheaper than the electricity fee from Amtrak.
I wish MARC served Newark, DE. That way, I can go to Washington DC just from commuter rail, SEPTA and NJT.
Railfanning score feels a bit out of place in this.
Especially because it contradicts
Thought this was a really good ep, but as a biased* NYer, wanted to give my take on your LIRR/Metro-North scores:
1. I think both lines should get higher railfan scores - unlike a lot of other commuter lines, you can more easily railfan them because they follow NYC subway lines or are directly on, below, or at street level in the boroughs, so you don't need a car or stay within the station limits to take photos.
2. Both lines are also surrounded with historic railroad infrastructure that's leagues beyond any other system. Getting to start your journey at Grand Central on Metro-North or watch LIRR trains shoot through Sunnyside Yard with NJT and Amtrak in the background is awesome.
3. I'd give Metro-North a slightly higher score for utility, as it carries almost as many passengers per day/annually as LIRR but across a much more diverse and complex system. It also has to work with regulations and funding across 3 different states, and has a more diverse power/EMU roster then other lines to support it.
4. Something I think is worth mentioning is price per ride, like if the peak/off-peak fares are cheap or expensive enough to make a difference. LIRR/Metro-North would score decently there, but I think quickly reviewing how fare price correlates to system expansions would be interesting and definitely more accurately shows the pain points of Northeast area lines.
“Pretty” and “solid” aren’t acceptable metrics for ranking these systems. You need some hard numbers to do legit comparisons. Until then, this is purely a subjective approximation.
I rolled my eyes all the way through this. Completely subjective.
Much love to the T! I hope they will acquire the resources they need someday... let's hope!!
I genuinely cannot believe that you gave the VRE the same railfan score as the Exo. The F59s might be some of the ugliest passenger locomotives built in the last half century, and VRE’s are some of the best. Plus, VRE always keeps the gallery cars nice and shiny and the run down the Potomac really has some gorgeous moments, to say nothing of the views of the Jefferson Memorial and the Washington Monument on the way into DC.
I completely agree ! The VRE Gallery cars are probably the best in the U.S, as they are well maintained and kept clean. As for the locos, the standardisation on MPI locos is very sensible, and they too look great, and are kept clean !
MARC is upgrading the Brunswick Line and the Penn Line is also going to serve Delaware soon to connect to SEPTA and thru-run Union Station to serve stops in Northern Virginia providing a one seat ride from VA to DE
As a New York I be riding that train everyday for the fun of it. Besides work it’s pretty relaxing 💁🏾♂️
Isn’t Toronto part of the ↗️, so where is it?
Toronto is part of the Midwest because it lies on Lake Ontario, part of the Great Lakes Region.
Love this series! I understand the ranking system, but I really think MARC should be higher! True, the Penn Line’s scenery isn’t very remarkable, but the Camden Line has some nice spots (not to mention its historic right of way) and the Brunswick Line has amazing views, especially along the Potomac and around Harpers Ferry! Plus, those old single-level cars have a certain charm to them! Looking forward to the rest of the series!
OKC will "*soon" be getting it's own commuter rail lines.
"*Soon" as in the next five years or so.
ah yes, MNR and NJT in the same tier as CTrail uh huh
Yeah wtf is this list
@@connecticutmultimodaltrans8226 foamer’s railing list
I like this idea of ranking commuter lines but man oh man i couldnt care less if its got a big "rail fanning" score. What ever that means
Great ranking! Would have loved to see it considered that CTRail ordered new rolling stock, expected to be in service in 2026, and that the Hartford line is capable of 110mph through newer rolling stock and Amtrak cars.
LIRR is fully signalized as of about a year ago… track speeds were increased to Montauk at the same time.
From New London CT or Springfield MA, one could take commuter rail to Newark Delaware. Only transfer is from Grand Central to NY Penn station by either walking or 2 subway lines.
Good article. You might want to include links to the websites of the operating agencies. That way we can use timetables to plan trips.
HHP-8 MENTIONED
Must say, I have been to the Northeast Corridor.
ONE THING I KNOW ABOUT NJT AND IT'S STATIONS:
Newark Penn Station is busy meaning there are trains every 3-10 minutes on peak/rush hour, especially being more busy on Fridays for NJ Transit.
YES
LIRR is a lifeline if you are a tourist looking to save money on hotels. It has a big history in both pop culture and the real world. For NY locals it can get very noisy especially during the Yankees games. (Not revealing what baseball team, I am rooting for but Inside Edition did a news report about how much delirium there is on Saturdays or game days). Also MTA is one of those transit agencies where they don't opt for traditional locomotives such as the f59phi or MP36PH-3C. I took the liberty of asking native New Yorkers and the response was insane. Some say it's due to curb appeal others say NY laws ban the locomotives. Metro North is a train I want to ride too for reasons I don't know.
I believe that while LIRR doesnt have physical signals everywhere, they have PTC (ACSES and ATC) in-cab signalling... not sure, but I am pretty positive they also have those in the diesel locos as PTC is mandatory
For the west coast commuter rails, feel free to use any of my footage of Sounder trains.
I think you missed an important category, on-time performance. In my experience SEPTA has a high rate of cancellations due to "equipment problems" which is their euphemism for "the crew didn't show up" as well as stranding passengers by shutting down mid-day in bad weather after taking them to work in the morning.
Another thing that brings NJT's usability down is that infrastructure issues such as bad wires are causing meltdowns, especially near NY Penn
I know of people who live in Providence RI who work in NYC because of the Metro North New Haven Line
metro north deserves a 7 for modernity imo, esp considering the upcoming fleets of SC42DM dual mode diesels and M9A EMUs. I believe it also deserves an 8 for railfanning (at least) but hey, im a little biased. Good vid!
All of Exo should become the REM
Overall I really enjoyed your video, great commentary and footage! But as a Worcester MA native I have to object to the MBTA CR getting a 6 on frequency. During weekdays on peak times trains from Worcester leave roughly every 45 minutes to an hour, but after peak and on weekends that goes to every two hours.
For comparison I took Metro North for the first time a couple years ago to/from NYC and New Haven (another terminal station and mid-sized city, like Worcester) - multiple trains an hour on for most of day on the weekends, and hourly off-peak (also not including Amtrak Northeast Regional and Acela)!
As someone who grew up railfanning Marc in and around dc (mostly on the camden line) the railfan experience varies wildly on which line you choose. There's nothing really special about the Camden line. They almost always run MP36s with no plans to electrify and the scenery is just a bunch of industrial areas and some major roads. The Brunswick line is my absolute favorite to railfan solely based in scenery You pass many cute railroad towns with museums, and cabooses, Not to mention cutting through the mountain and flying over the potomac at Harpers Ferry. The Penn line does have the best variety of locomotives in my opinion.
I'm not sure you should dock a system for having a few low frequency lines. A system with 2 A tier lines and 2 F tier lines is still better than a system with 2 A tier lines and no other trains.
would be great if you said what the frequencies were e.g. every 10 minutes, every 30 minutes or every hour
I think you've over ranking the MBTA. As a regular commuter on the Lowell line who once commuted in the Philly area, what I tell everyone is that I never needed to know the train schedule in Philly, but you definitely need to know the schedule on the T because they only run trains every hour - at peak. I would score the MBTA no high than a 4 for frequency. As for usefulness, one has to drive pretty good distance to get the the limited number of lines that the T runs - I can't see a score over 5 here. Sorry, but as a regular user of the service, Keolis and the Commonwealth could do a whole lot better... but loved the video!
ct trains should also run traind from new haven tinland to danbury, waterburyand new cannan that alreasdy have trains o nyc. also may runing some acros the new haven urban area.
Some branch lines have low frequency because they have low ridership, for instance, Septa's Cynwyd line. I once rode this line during rush hour and there were literally 5 people on the train. For lines that don't see that much ridership, we shouldn't expect a train every 45 minutes because that's a waste of services if people aren't using them
MBTA really needs electric locomotives for the NEC. And no, battery power doesn’t count.
I assume you're not counting Toronto as part of the Northeast, hence the omission of Go Transit.
YESS THE LIRR GOT A TIER LETS GOOOOOO
2:40 Trains run up to 90 mph on Shore Line East, and 110 mph on Hartford Line.
What about SEPTA's heritage fleet? Surely the heritage Silverliners boost the raifan appeal by at least one point
Mbta/ MassDot MUST connect north and south station
So for vre is actually getting a new paint scheme here soon rumored to be a lot like Amtrak phase 6 but with a lot more patters so that 4 could change real soon
MARC likes to keep diesels so it can keep flexibility open incase a train needs be moved from the penn like to Camden or Brunswick, altho those lines lack service due to CSX, altho they have tries as well as proposed a plan to meet up with SEPTA in Newark DE
Altho I find it crazy how MARCs GP40,GP39 and GP40W being left out as they can be seen around fairly often, not to mention the only commuter to still have AEM7s altho sadly unable to operate hence why they was retired
Yay you talked about Canada!
I wouldn’t deduct points from modernity due to diesel hauled equipment. Keep in mind, electrification is “very” expensive. A system must certainly have the ridership and demand to justify the cost.
Also, Metro North adjusted its mix of diesel hauled and EMU equipment after a blizzard from many years earlier left the system unable to provide service for a few days as to the time needed to dig out the 3rd rail and repair some damage to that infrastructure. Diesels off we more flexibility and overall reliability. Modern engines are available. Otherwise a great and enjoyable video!
When the new Airo-trainsets for the NEC arrive, Amtrak will replace some ACS-64s on the regional services with the new dual-mode trains. Rumors say, that Amtrak will sell some of the ACS-64. I really hope that at least MARC will buy some of the ACS-64. MTBA could also consider the purchase of some locomotives, but they have no affinity and experience with electric trains, so i don't think, that this will happen.
As a Philadelphian, I will say that your SEPTA score is VERY generous. Train frequency is subpar at best, and they do NOT do a good job of accommodating the schedule for events such as sports, concerts, etc. Off-peak, most lines only run once an hour, and the Bala Cynwyd line does not run at all outside of peak hours. That means if you miss your train by one minute, you're waiting an hour for the next one, which really sucks if you're trying to return to the suburbs after a ballgame or a night of bar hopping. Add on the fact that the center city stations are full of homeless people, the Dunkin Donuts close around 9:30-10pm, and it's impossible to find a working outlet to charge your phone, and it makes for a pretty unpleasant experience.
Ok, I'm done my SEPTA rant lol. Aside from my disagreement there, this is a great video! Definitely agree on the points you made for NJ Transit and Metro North, as I've traveled on their lines before and would give them about the same score as you did.
At least SEPTA has heritage EMUs now.
Yes, we need more commuter trains. We also need more Non Commuter passenger trains to expand. I would vote on bills to expand commuter for more interstate and international travel for mainline railroads and more commuter trains for both Mainline Shortline and Branchline railroads.
Bro did LIRR and MNR dirty on the railfan score💀 LIRR’s electric territory is the best to railfan: trains every 5 minutes going 80 MPH, never know if it’ll be an M3 M7 M9… or even a DM30AC!
SEPTA operates the only fully electrified commuter rail system in the US (at least until CalTrain electrification debuts). In 2024 that deserves a special mention and score.
Denver‘s commuter rail system and the South Shore Line are also fully electrified.
@@VieleGuteFahrer True, but Septa has multiple lines
@@anthonygreco12 So does the commuter rail in the Denver region. The South Shore Line will receive a second line in 2025.
Great series. Can it also about EU trains but then only the national or biggest transportation company of that specific land?
you’ll barely see any non-North american or even American in general videos despite being called Worldwide Railfan
Our local railway VRE may not have a different locomotive but back then they had the F40s and some other engine idk the name of.
And the scenery may not be as nice but that’s all your opinion.
I do think that VRE will improve once they get more lines and destinations in.
Marc using diesel under wires is a policy failure not an equipment oversight. They would be obligated to pay an insane premium on those volts, making diesel the far cheaper option. This is an insane situation they have to deal with for now.
Something really annoying is the the northeast regional for Amtrak is at least 20 minutes late every weekend at least when I take kt
VRE trains aren’t that old their MP36s are newer than MARCs and the gallery cars are new also you left out GO transit
As a Railfan I actually prefer the more modern stuff on commuter rails
With the focus on conversion to electric have you looked into the reports of how mu h copper will need to be mined?
4:18 why is there a candiac line train coming on the vaudreuil line tracks?
EXO is a commuter rail I want to ride. They are trying their best to update their equipment. From what I heard it's popularity is not as good as the US but they are a decent commuter train that does a somewhat good job in connecting the big city (Montreal) to the small towns nearby.. If you do a review on trams in US and Canada, Le REM could be a top performer. If you are a single guy who wants to be alone or with best friends, EXO is the way to go.
As someone who has used MARC for thousands of miles. I believe that MARC is one of, if not the worst, on the NEC. The only thing MARC has going for them is the PENN line, and the scheduleing for the PENN line is horrible on weekends and not the greatest on weekdays. The scheduling on the Brunswick and camden line is a joke. No weekend service,trains are always late. The Brunswick line only has trains traveling southeast in the morning and back northwest in the afternoon. 9 trains each way on the Brunswick line and 10 trains each way on the Camden line. Plus, the Brunswick line has 3 terminals Martinsburg WV, Brunswick MD, and Frederick MD. Only 6 trains travel to and from Martinsburg 3 each way. Same with Frederick. Brunswick gets 12 a day, 6 each way. Only half the route actually gets served by all 18 trains a day. Covid also hit MARC like a truck and keeps falling behind in the actual list of Commuter rails in the USA.
You forgot to mention the frequency of NJT delays!
Do you have a spreadsheet of all the scores?
VRE scenery is awesome
@WorldwideRailfan ...You claim to make videos that explain how railways around the world work. This video doesn't explain why you consider non-US commuter rail a part of a US ranking of commuter rails.
Your Canadian content missed Metrolink and the GO network. Another commenter suggested that Toronto will appear in your Midwest rankings. First off, Canada has no "midwest'. Second, Torontonians don't identify with the Midwest any more than folks in Buffalo or Rochester or Oswego. Neither do Windsor or Sarnia, even though they're across the river from Detroit.
Please make an effort to live up to your handle and I may consider joining your channel. You're a hard marker and I like that in foamers!
Be happy you are even included.
As a comutter on the Montreal Exo Rail. Off peak service is not great.
would literally be better if they all get replaced with REM, better frequencies. But alas sharing freight tracks into Montreal
I'm not sure how you can include Montreal's regional rail system but not Toronto's GO Transit rail system.
Montreal is closer to Boston and NYC in the Northeast Corridor, while Toronto is part of Great Lakes like Chicago equivalent
I guess I'm not deep enough into the train fan world yet, because I don't see what's so boring about EMUs. Maybe I'm just in California, which is about to get what is to my knowledge the state's first non-metro-style EMU trains in the new Caltrain Stadlers, which will bring significant travel time and frequency improvements and basically in one fell swoop make Caltrain a useful transit line, which I think is very exciting.
In fact, I'm in the East Bay, and recently started dating someone on the Peninsula, and I'm hoping this relationship flourishes so that I have an excuse to go to the Peninsula and ride the new trains when they enter service. And also because I really like her, but, well, trains.
I’m also in the East bay too! I went to to Caltrain electrification train tour back in May and the Caltrain stadler EMUs have a modern interior. I can’t wait to ride the new Caltrain EMUs too when they enter service and I’ve only ridden the Caltrain diesel fleet once.
As a train fan, I don't find EMUs boring at all. I love them a lot, and heck, I like most of them more than the Diesels.
The Railfanning category in this video, is iffy, if I'm being honest.
I have one complaint... Septa should be its own tier BELOW F because its the literal WORST railroad in the Northeast. coming from both an engineers perspective and railfans perspective. ( no i am not a transit engineer but i do have friends who work for them and everyone else ive asked said septa is trash) Aside from that good video!
SEPTA is the best
@@toetankgr no it's not, it's a terrible railroad and here's why, If you want a railfanners perspective it's so bland 0 equipment variety. And from an engineers/conductors perspective it doesn't pay shit. That's why most people either work on transit or Metro North
CT Rail Atlantic Ocean? You mean the Long Island Sound.
Rank NJ transit without the Atlantic city line and it probably jumps up a whole tier.
I don’t think it’s fair to judge frequencies of a vast system like metro north while including their branch lines. Other systems like Caltrain are literally just a main line. I am almost 100% positive the main lines of metro north are individually more frequent than any commuter rail in the west.
Also having some low frequency branch lines is a GOOD thing because that means rail has been extended to locations with lower demand and population. This allows for growth!
He forgot to count the 4 septa heritage units