Exposing for V-Log/HDR with Panasonic GH5 and Atomos Ninja Inferno
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
- When I first added V-Log to my Panasonic GH4 a few years ago, I was disappointed with a lot of the V-Log footage because it was so noisy. I was hesitant to add V-Log to my GH5 but went ahead and spent a little more time experimenting with it to see how to get the best possible footage. With the help of an Atomos Ninja Inferno HDMI recorder, I’ve learned that it is really just a matter of making sure that you set your aperture and ISO a little differently to optimize the exposure for V-Log. And with the ATOM-HDR feature on the Ninja Inferno, it is even easier to quickly dial in the exposure for V-Log. So here’s how to shoot great looking V-Log video footage on your Panasonic GH4 or GH5.
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Gear used to record this episode:
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Panasonic GH5 Camera
Amazon: geni.us/9iNmX
B&H: bhpho.to/2oIdG7o
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Panasonic V Log L Firmware Upgrade for GH4/GH5
B&H: bhpho.to/2r3go8x
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Atomos Ninja Inferno HDMI Recorder (simplifies exposing for HDR/LOG and records amazing 4:2:2 10-bit footage from GH4 or GH5)
Amazon: geni.us/zK5lr
B&H: bhpho.to/2spF6Rm
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Sound Devices MixPre-6 Audio Recorder & Mixer
DVeStore: bit.ly/2qrn6kY
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DPA 4017b Shotgun Microphone (my pro-level outdoor mic)
B&H: bhpho.to/2mb6pr6
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Panasonic Lumix 12-35mm f/2.8 Lens (1st Generation)
Amazon: geni.us/KIfCav
B&H: bhpho.to/2qLWz1Q
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Lifecharge USB Battery (for powering the MixPre-6)
Amazon: geni.us/RE94
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Copyright 2017 by Curtis Judd
Ethics statement: Some of the links above are Amazon.com, B&H Photo, or other affiliate links.
A perfect tutorial. You speak at a pace that allows a beginner to absorb the information, rather than having to constantly rewind to catch what was said. You don't use background elevator music to add "entertainment" value. You provide clear images to illustrate the topic. Your video is to the point and short. What a relief.
Thanks for the feedback!
That's why i wait for ur videos more than any other channels on Utube!
always informative,right to point with footage,clear and all what cinematographer needs!
i wish i can thank you on every video since you deserve more than that.
Thanks Curtis, keep it up!
Thank you Luca! That's very kind.
Great tutorial, Curtis. I'm a very late GH5 adopter...literally installed my V-log firmware this morning. Looking forward to practicing! Thanks!
Thanks Doug. Congrats on the new camera and happy shooting!
Super simple., super logical, super practical---as usual. Thanks Curtis. Love your videos.
Thanks William!
but not very accurate. you need to expose for middle grey which will vary with your gamma curse; for vlog is about 38%; forget about the highlights
Thank you so much! Clear, concise, to the point, useful. What’s not to like! I love that you’ve also shown some great examples with different exposures so I will definitely pay more attention to that in future. Just got a GH5S after many many years with one of the previous GH series cameras, so this is really really useful. I’m blown away by what you can do with log profiles and this will help me immensely.
Thanks Mark and happy filming!
Excellent tutorial Curtis! The shot of the treeline with the stump in the foreground is beautiful.
Thanks Dan!
Once again - very concise and very informative. Saw another tutorial lately that took like twenty minutes to come to the same conclusion. It is fair to point out that all LOG can benefit from exposing to shadows - not just v-log L. Raising middle grey pulls shadow information further up the gamma curve and pushes shadow detail above the noise floor.
But the simple point that whn you set your exposure - it is only one setting - people get overwhelmed with the science of it but the simple fact is you set it to one point. It would be cool to expose the lows - mids and highs all separately but for now we just tell the camera where it will perceive middle grey to be and the camera does the work. If you ETTR as suggested by a lot of people - you end up trying to match skintones and mid tones in POST because one scene ETTR is not going to be the same middle grey as another dependant on how much light is in the scene. So it ends up being a lot of color correction and Luma matching in POST. I like that you told people to check the shadows but exclusively exposing to them may end up creating more work in POST too.
- I think your ideas above are dead on. Nice work Curtis.
Thank you Jim!
Hi Curtis... Nice video. As usual :) :)
I have a quick question.
I run a makeup youtube channel and am planning to buy a new camera. My budget is between $4000 to $5000. Will you recommend Panasonic GH5? If yes can I continue using my Canon lenses?
Thanks for your time.
Hmm, for makeup tutorials, it may be better to stick with one of the Canon cameras with dual-pixel auto focus. The autofocus on the GH5 is not nearly as good at tracking. The C100mkII would be nice (but much bigger) and the 70D or 80D are also quite good. Those are quite affordable relative to your budget and then you could use the extra money for more/better lighting gear and sound gear (my favorite in terms of improving production value). Best wishes!
Hi Curtis... thanks for taking out time for answering my question. One final question.
In our shoots we have a dedicated camera person. So focusing is not an issue. My channel is also unique (at least here in India) because we make our videos with expert. So for makeup videos we tie up with professional makeup artists.
We are currently using Canon 500D with the kit lenses for all our shoots. I feel that if I am able to improve the color quality of our videos then it will open new avenues for the channel. We already have a Tascam DR 60D Mk II (Which I purchased after watching your review :) ) and 3 Fotodiox 200D (Which are 85 CRI lights) with softboxes. But after watching your video on Aputure I am planning to buy atleast one 320D.
Which camera will you recommend for better colors in my videos? I also plan to invest in a better lens. I have shortlisted Canon EF24-70mm f/2.8L II USM.
PS: I really appreciate you taking out time for answering my questions. I owe you one :)
Canon cameras are really great in terms of color science so I'd probably stick with Canon. The C100mkII is worth a look as long as you don't need 4K resolution: bhpho.to/2xiHQTs
If you do need 4K, I really do like the GH5 but its color science is different, particularly with skin tones which is critical with you work. The Panasonic color science tends to render skin tones with a bit more yellow in them whereas the Canons tend to render skin tones with a bit more orange. So at some point it becomes a subjective preference. I prefer the Canon color science.
However, more important than the camera is the quality of the lights. The Aputures are quite good and the CRI on their lights are all 95+ (97-98 on the newer lights). That will make more of a difference than switching cameras.
Curtis Judd Thanks you for your time. I owe you a beer. If you ever visit India be my guest. I will show you around Delhi.
So when monitoring with the view assist feature turned on and using the provided LUT, the image will appear overexposed? If that's the case, it might be good to create and load a new LUT with the overexposure in mind.
It will look over-exposed when the HDR feature is off. Once you turn it on, you see which highlights are retained.
Thanks Curtis, very useful information. This single point made me question why I bought this camera...it is not as intuitive as I thought to simply pick it up and start shooting. Thanks again!
Thanks Carlos, yes, fortunately I saw the Atomos guys at NAB and when I saw the demo of the Ninja's ATOM-HDR feature, I was excited to try again. Glad I did!
If stuck, I'd opt for noise in shadows over clipped highlights. Neat Image can help a lot when you use it optimized for your camera. I've seen excellent results with GH5 footage taken at 1600 and 3200. But clipped highlights are clipped forever. YMMV, of course.
Those new hibright monitors are amazing. Hopefully Atamos will make 5” versions someday, and hopefully those will be the standard displays on the cameras themselves at some point.
Interesting and good point. That's definitely an option. I'm ok with a bit of clipping when it makes sense (e.g., direct shot of the sun like in the last shot here), but I can see the value of your suggestion as well. Thanks!
If you are shooting V-log at 3200 ISO - the dynamic range is lost - starts to lose the initial idea of using it in the first place - I think 3200 ISO the dynamic range is squeezed - so the detail in the shadows is being lost fine detail becomes black- it just looks cleaner but if you inspect one shot at 3200 and then put it side by side to a 800 ISO - and crop in - there will be more detail in the shadows at 800.
Even better at ISO 350 or 400
Excellent video Curtis. Have just purchased Vlog L and you guide is on how to expose is a big help. Thanks as always jf
Happy log shooting!
Hi Curtis,
Love your videos and content as always! You have helped me tremendously over the years and I can't thank you enough. I have spent a lot of time using vlog on my GH5. I have to agree that +1 stop is a great place to be at. I have also had tremendous success at 0. Underexposed is no bueno. I've seen a lot of people that swear by underexposing the image to get more dynamic range. I have found for me that the noise is unbearable when underexposing in vlog. Thanks again!
Thanks B.L. Under exposing was a valid approach in film days but looks like over-exposing (or at least not underexposing) is the game for V Log.
Quick, well explained and very informative as usual Curtis. Thank you !!
Thanks Laurent!
I would imagine these same guidelines apply to both the GH5 and GH4, correct?
Yes, even more important to expose a little over on the GH4 which doesn't oversample and tends to be a bit noisier.
I understand exposing for log using the waveform monitor or zebras, but what I'm confused about is on the Atomos recorder. When you adjust the Atomos SDR to HDR slider, what are you adjusting? You are not changing the underlying log footage, are you? Are you simply adjusting how the image might look when post processed? Is it simply letting you see that your underlying log footage will be okay once you apply a LUT or grade it further in Resolve? In other words, the Atomos HDR is simply letting you visually confirm that you image will look okay as exposed, but you still adjust exposure through the traditional ways (aperture, lighting, etc)
Hi, the HDR slider on the new Atomos recorders just allows you to confirm that you are not clipping your highlights even though they may looked clipped on your camera's screen. The new generation Atomos screens have a much wider dynamic range so they can display brighter brights which most camera screens cannot display. It does not change the log footage or affect what you are capturing. Just a good way to make sure you're not clipping those highlights. Thanks for the question!
Very insightful, thank you! I went down the wrong path a while ago deciding dslrs and mirrorless just can't do it the right way, and that hdr in this regard was a range/noise trade-off scenario. Was too lazy-minded to stop for a sec and consider it was actually me not exposing correctly. I'll certainly dig into it, thanks....
Thanks! May your journey open new doors for you!
Question, I am using zebras and the waveform to help balance my exposure and that’s helping, but now once that’s done, my question is what do I prioritize to lighten my exposure - aperture, shutterspeed or iso? Like should I keep aperture at a minimum (2.8 on my lens) and then use shutter speed and/or iso to adjust the exposure? Which one should I keep low and which should I be adjusting to move the waveform ? Someone please help I am dying trying to figure this out and I can’t!!!!
ISO or aperture, depending on the look you want. Opening up your aperture will increase the exposure - move the waveform up - but will also result in a shallower depth of field (fewer things in focus). Raising ISO will not change the depth of field, but will potentially add more noise to the image if you push beyond 1600 or 3200 ISO (depending on which Pansonic camera you're using).
I'm shooting on a Panasonic S1 using HLG and my HLG waveform monitor on the Ninja 5 goes to 800 instead of a normal 100 ire on a standard waveform, what's the difference?
Hi Tim, You can adjust the waveform using the HDR slider. But the general idea is that your camera is able to capture a much wider dynamic range than can be displayed in a traditional REC.709 space.
Superb guide! Give this man an Oscar!
Thanks Jeff!
Awesome, informative video! Top notch quality as always, incredibly helpful! Cheers!
Thanks!
Thank you, Curtis! What IRE level you use for 18% Grey Card and Skintones, when you overexposed v-log shots?
Somewhere between 50 and 70 or so.
Would like your opinions on the inferno in general and whether you feel it is worth the investment to get the most of the GH5.
Hi Ferhan, I've been a long-time Atomos recorder shooter (started with the Ninja II, then Shogun, now Ninja Inferno). I find the investment very worthwhile with the GH4 and 5. The ProRes workflow makes my post life so much easier than H.264. Editing incredibly smooth with very good quality footage. H.264 from the GH5 is a lot of work for a computer to decode so it can be choppy at times. The screen on the Ninja Inferno is a treat and definitely usable outdoors in broad sunlight. Also love all of the exposure and focus tools. Even though the GH5 now has a waveform monitor, it is much easier to work with the much larger waveform on the Ninja. False color is nice as well. Storage media is standard SSD drives so they're reasonably priced even for relatively large capacities (vs. CFast on my Ursa Mini Pro which care ridiculously expensive and smaller capacity).
There are some costs in addition to the price tag so I know this isn't perfect for everyone. Those that need to keep their rigs super small and light aren't going to want to use a recorder like this, at least not all the time. Also, they eat through batteries like crazy. I power my camera and Ninja with an Anton Bauer gold mount battery so it isn't an issue for me, but this makes the rig even heavier.
The pro res workflow does sound really attractive as does the exposure monitoring tools, for me the weight could be a pain along with an additional piece of kit for setup times etc. And to be honest my aputure vsII has seen use about 3 times so the Atmos would probably end up collecting dust in the long turn.
Makes sense. If you have a chance to borrow one, I'd recommend it so you can see if it makes much difference for your workflow. Good luck!
I've been waiting for someone to talk about HDR on the atomos! It's so confusimg. How is it different than using the log to vodeo feature? I feel like it's never really an accurate representation with the setting on so I'm always messing up. I see you have the range for the on camera wave form but what do you typically do for the range on the atomos monitor?
When the Ninja is in Atom HDR mode, the waveform has a completely different scale so all you need to do is make sure that your shadows are above 0 and that your highlights don't cut off at the top. It is super easy to work with. Then, if you're unsure because the image looks blown out (clipped highlights), you move the HDR slider to ensure that that the camera is actually capturing the highlights, just to give you 100% confidence. It made capturing all of the footage for this episode much easier. I hope that makes sense.
Hey Curtis I hope this comment threads the needle and finds you. I've searched all over youtube and I can't find any info on how to monitor in ATOM HDR. I noticed that you had the slider at half way. When I move the slider to the extremes, the scopes, like the false colour one, tell me I'm over or under exposed depending on where that slider is. I do set my GH5 one stop over, but again, I get nervous and do the "under expose" thing because the scopes say so. Leaving it in the middle, the setting exposure on my camera tends to give decent results, but why would the slider be a float instead of interger 1,2,3? Is there a reason to be 83.546% over to the HDR side and vice versa for 709?
Note that the HDR slider on these are really just a way to boost the signal in terms of max nits so don't rely on that for exposure decisions. Definitely stick with the scopes. The "HDR" feature is not useful for anything more than a quick preview at both ends of the spectrum when out in the field.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for your reply! As for what you've said, I got that far, but when I use the false colour for example, it shows different readings when I slide back and forth. I'm assuming that I should be monitoring in HDR if I'm using log, even though I'll be delivering in 709. Do I not worry about REC.709 until I get to post?
@@elephantgrass631 You can apply the REC.709 LUT for your camera if you're shooting in log to help with that. I would just ignore the HDR monitoring mode, to be honest.
@@curtisjudd I'll give it a shot but I keep running into the "too dark" problem that you mentioned in the video whenever I try that. Thanks for you help and hopefully I get better luck with your advice!
A big fan of your vids/tuts, and again want to thank you for another great one! If ever you have time (?) to do a more in depth type of video on v-log, I would surely appreciate it! They are there (in youtube) but you have such a clear and precise way of explaining things that one sorta wants you to make it... Thanks again for all the great work you do, it makes life so much easier for us amateurs out (t)here!
Thanks Temersson! I'll make another one once I learn more about V-Log.
Hi Curtis. I just thought of something. Lets say I were recording with my GH5s using it's internal recorder, can I use a 18% Grey card to take a exposure reading of my subject for V-Log then set my exposure up to 2 stops over exposed to compensate. I understand that V-Log suffers with noise due to incorrect exposure (Underexposure) So during post when one tires to pull detail from the shadow areas it induces noise.
Definitely give it a try! I would suspect that about 1 stop over would be the sweet spot but it also depends on the goal for that particular scene you're shooting: Are you more willing to lose highlight detail or shadow? Then you choose how much to over-expose based on that answer. Good luck!
Thanks
Hey Curtis, great vid man. I have a question about skin tones exposure with VLOG and Zebra's. I see filmmakers speak about setting Z's at 55% with VLOG, as well as exposing one stopover. However, when I set Z's at 55% and then expose 1 stop over - the skins are blown out. What are your thoughts on this?
Hmm, so they're using zebras as a way to expose for skin tones - as soon as the skin tones hit 55% and show zebras, they know they have the exposure right? I haven't tried it this way, but worth a try. Sort of a different way to use zebras. I prefer to use false color as that way I get a better picture of not only where skin tones sit as well as shadows and highlights.
I'm 5 years late the party but, how did you determine the GH5 recommended Aperture here? Were you using light meter? Cause on the split screen you show "recommended F11 and you over exposed to F8" for example. How did you know how to get the recommended value. Thank you so much
I used the exposure guide on the camera - that little meter at the bottom, center of the screen. Or better yet, use the waveform and get things between 80 and 20 IRE on the waveform.
@@curtisjudd
Thank you, I have 2 more follow up questions regarding aperture and shutter priority modes specifically: it would be nice to see how and what SS changes to in relation to when I adjust something else.
Why am I not able to see shutter speed values(SS numbers change on the screen) while in Aperture priority mode? I do understand this mode controls Aperture but on other cameras while in Aperture, you can still see when and what shutter speed changes to when for example you over expose or decrease ISO. On gh6 there's is no SS reading even though I know it's changing internally. Is there a way to have it displayed on my screen while in Aperture priority? That way I know what SS the camera chooses when I adjust ISO or aperture?
Question no.2:
Can you still focus manually while in either shutter speed or Aperture priority? Does focusing manual when in one of the two modes have any effect to how light works or its absolutely okay?
Thank you so much.
@@TrailAmbience 1) Not sure, I don't have a GH6, probably best to contact Panasonic support. 2) Yes, on the GH5 you can. If the camera detects any changes to the amount of light coming it, it will adjust.
Same thing with the s-log on the Sonys. Definitely overexpose. I've noticed through casual conversations that people try to save all the highlights, but I say as long as your subject (person, building, whatever) is well exposed, there is nothing wrong with some clipping in the highlights, as you demonstrated in the last clip,. Thanks for sharing this video. I need to get my hand on one of those Atomos Ninja Infernos! :)
Thanks Dave, good to know that the Sonys are similar. The Ninja is nice to work with - love the ProRes files (or DNxHR if you prefer), the screen is amazing even outdoors in the sun, and the exposure tools are great. The fan is a little loud and the thing chews through batteries but it takes a lot to power a 1500 nit HDR screen so I consider that the cost of doing business. Hope all is going well for you!
How much noise fan, Curtis? Making an interview in a quiet room with a cardioid or hypercardioid mic (so that the Atomos is behind them at about 1m-1,5m), is the fan audible in the recorded audio?
It should be great if you could test this!
I haven't had any issues with the sound leaking into my recordings for normal talking head and interview shoots, but I like to have as little noise on set as possible. In one product demonstration piece, because of the way we were set up, the Ninja was about 30 cm from the side of the mic and the mic picked up some of the noise. It was easily cleaned up in post. If positioned with care, I don't see the fan noise as an issue. It certainly does not outweigh th benefits of the Ninja for my workflow. I hope that gives my comment a little context and thanks for the question!
Hi Curtis.
I've got a question. When you monitored the GH5 on the Ninja Inferno, and it showed you that the camera was actually capturing the highlights even if the camera screen doesn't show it properly; does that mean that i could capture those highlights without the Ninja Inferno, inspite of the camera's LCD not showing it?
Thanks for the video.
+Nicolás Ugarte Valdebenito yes, the camera can capture it without the Inferno though I prefer recording to ProRes which works better in my post workflow.
Thank you for this
Does this also apply to the Lumix S5? Since this is just happening to me
Also this can be applied in scenes at night or with lower dynamic range? Because the Lumix S5 has native dual Iso
Hi José, I'm not sure, I haven't shot with the S5.
Hello, thanks for the tip! I have one question, how does one turn on the detailed waveform on? (1:57) I only seem to have the basic narrow histogram available :-(
It is an option in the first menu.
Hi Chris, this is a good one for me. I now use the GH6 with the ball V log.. do you still recommend between 20 and 80? I’m trying really hard to use the log but I’m not to the point yet where I can do better using it then I can save the natural profile. Although I’m an experienced color grading person I think it’s the way I’m shooting. It’s a deep study for me I think. I’m going to search your channel to see if there’s more on this topic. It’s a great channel and I always turn into it
The GH6 uses a slightly different version of V-Log so I'm not certain, but I believe the idea is the same.
Hi Curtis,
Thanks for this helpful video! I'm not sure I fully understand how to interpret the waveform monitor on the GH5 though. It seems like no matter how much you overexpose or underexpose, the brightness value on the graph never actually reaches the solid green line at the top and bottom of the waveform monitor. I had originally assumed this was 0 and 100, but it's not clear to me what numerical value these solid green lines are actually supposed to denote. It seems like "0" is just below the dotted line that is one tick above the solid green line on the bottom of the graph, and that 100 is at the dotted green line that is two ticks below the solid green line on the top of the graph. Is this correct? I get that the ideal range is between 15 and 80 IRE on the GH5's waveform monitor, I'm just not sure what I'm actually looking for...any insights you can provide are much appreciated! This would be super easy if the waveform was just divided into 10 sections and you just had to think about it as "between 15% and 80%" What is all that space on the waveform below 0 and above 100 for if the brightness value will never move into that area?
Hi Alexander, correct, when shooting in V-Log, you will see clipping and crushing occur before the top and bottom lines. Instead, you have to watch to make sure that doesn't happen by watching the shape of the waveform. For my eyes, that's pretty difficult to do on such a tiny monitor which is a big part of the reason I like to work with monitors like this.
Gotcha, makes sense now. It's difficult to see on that tiny monitor, but I'm sure I'll adapt. Thanks again!
Hi Curtis, how do you find the place or how do you make the camera show the recommended aperture?
Hi Harold, I press the Disp. button until it displays the exposure guide.
@@curtisjudd Thank you - i will try that. I've only been using waveform on my gh5 - didn't know there's that. Thank you!
it worked! thank you so much really helpful for beginners!!!
Hey Curtis. I picked up a gh5 and love it!!! however, i noticed today that 4k 10 bit playback is a bit choppy and out of sync in fcpx. do you have any suggested edited times for the gh5 4k 10 bit footage?
Hey Jacob, yes, I find that I have to transcode the footage for use in FCPX, unfortunately. This is why I often use an Atomos recorder when I can, but transcode if I'm shooting with just the GH5. I use Kyno to transcode, but you could also use DaVinci Resolve.
Curtis Judd thanks
Super helpful I'm going to follow this guide. The music though 😂
Glad you found the info helpful even if you didn’t like the music.
Curtis Judd It's not that I didn't like it! It's a bit old fashioned but the video overall is top notch!
Hey Curtis. Great video. I have been using the a6300 & a6500 for about a year and have enjoyed them. But... I am looking to dive deeper into film making and am looking for more. In your experience, do you have a preference between the gh5 and a6500? And do you have a preference Vlog and Slog2?
Hi Jacob, I'm primarily a Panasonic shooter and don't have first hand experience with the a6300, a6500, or Slog, unfortunately. So I do not really have a preference (due to lack of experience). My sense is that it is most important to stick with one until you have a good handle on how to get the most from it. For many of us, that takes a while to master. In other words, I'm not sure you'll get better results by switching. I'd master slog on the Sony since you've already got two very good cameras. Best wishes!
Curtis Judd thanks so much Curtis
Curtis Judd I guess my opinion from shooting with Sony is the external gear I have to keep buying. For example to get waveforms I have to have a ex monitor. For longer shoots, extra batteries, etc. From your reviews and others, it’s seems as though the gh5 and new Gh5s gives you a all in one solution with a feature rich body. Would that assumption be correct in your opinion?
Yes, definitely the battery life is better on the GH5/GH5s than the Sony a6xxx series. And yes, there is a waveform though it is very small and while I find it useful, it isn't quite as detailed as when you have a waveform on a 7" external monitor. That being said, it is generally good enough to get a good idea of where your exposure is falling. The GH5s does reasonably well at high ISOs and in low light, but you give up the IBIS and you're working with a slightly smaller sensor so you get deeper depth of field or have to use adapters with larger glass. My thinking is that Sony and Panasonic both make great cameras. I personally prefer to shoot with the Panasonic GH series but I fully recognize that others prefer Sony and I fully support that. You might want to borrow or rent a GH5 or 5s to see whether you prefer this system.
For me the battery life was troublesome, I didn't like the tiny body size and need to menu dive for some things (I have huge hands), and the strangely unbalanced feel once you put a lens on that tiny body (troublesome for gimbals). But for other people, these are not big enough issues to offset the benefits (great sensors, good imaging, great low-light/high ISO performance, etc).
Thanks so much Curtis :)
Would using VLOG assist help with exposing?
Perhaps? Is that a feature they added more recently? I don’t use ATOMOS recorders much these days.
My GH5 comes next week. You mention that the camera "tells" you what the proper exposure should be but you should go one stop higher. Does it really have that feature.? Or are you just referring to the meter?
I was referring to the little meter at the bottom of the screen that suggests whether you are over, under, or "correctly" exposed.
Well, then, don't I feel silly ;-) Thanks for responding so quickly!
Curtis, have you connected a mic to the inferno to see how it sounds? If so, is it good and /or better than recording directly to the GH5? Thanks!
Hi Glen, unfortunately I haven't. This unit didn't come with the XLR breakout cable (it is on loan from Atomos). I suspect it will be similar to the original Shogun where it will sound good, but generate a bit more self-noise than most dedicated audio recorders with XLR inputs (excepting perhaps the Zoom H4n). It also does not provide a lot of gain so gain hungry microphones probably will not excel with this. I would be more inclined to use it to take a line level feed from a dedicated audio recorder.
Thanks for the quick reply. I've been using the Tascam DR60 to record audio. On my next project I'll be using the mixpre3. Kind of excited about that. Recording to the inferno now and wondered if the audio was worth considering but I don't have the xlr adapter either. Thanks again.
Oh, I hope you enjoy the MixPre-3. I'm finding the MixPre to be a great little recorder - a real pleasure to work with. Good luck!
Incredibly helpful. Thanks a lot!
👍
can you make a video on how to export and upload a video to TH-cam so that it's HDR compliant?
Yes, just as soon as I get an HDR monitor. :) I am looking at that some time later this year.
Short and sweet. Great video!
Thanks!
Very useful post Curtis - thanks!
Thanks Sharp as L!
Today I tried HLG on GH5s 100mbps 50p FHD. But I didn't get this much wide dynamic range. I was shooting in camera. Can you pls advise the settings?
Do you have an HLG capable monitor? Or were the highlights clipping? How dynamic was the lighting of the scene? So many possible things that can contribute to the situation.
I had zebra turned on and it was showing highlights clipping, no HDR monitor just GH5s screen. I was exposing for the zebras not to show during shoot. Is it possible to convert it for simple screen and still hold all details?
Hi Yogendra, HLG is a completely different beast that I have not yet explored in detail. The technique we cover here will help when shooting with the V-Log profile. I will take a closer look at HLG in the future but it is a profile with some significant limitations. The way it is implemented in the GH5 is for workflows where you're not planning to do a lot of color grading, more like shoot, cut, no major color/luma adjusting, and then export/render. I'm not sure how it responds with Zebras or the waveform as I haven't worked with it a lot yet, but will take a closer look and produce a new episode on that when time permits. Sorry I couldn't help more for now, but hopefully in the future. Best wishes!
One other note, if you're not using an HLG enabled monitor to view it (in post), it can very well look clipped. Also, you'll need to use an HLG aware editing app and ensure you have set it up for HLG.
hello.thank you for the effort to make this really important post. When you check that your highlights are not clipped on an Atomos recorder, whatdo you do? do you move the 'HDR slider' to the position of max SDR(fully on the left) or opposite (fully right position)? And when you want to check the noise in the shadows? Do you have a general position for the slider that you stick to when you are on a fast shooting? Do you find zebra useful in such cases?
Hi, thanks, good questions! The problem we're looking to solve is that when you look at your camera's screen, the highlights can appear clipped when in fact they are not. Moving the HDR slider to the right allows you to confirm this. The monitor changes to an HDR mode and you can confirm that there is still detail in the highlights. You just need to move it far enough to the right to confirm. If you move it all the way to the right and still have clipped highlights, then you may need to adjust your exposure if you need to keep detail.
As for shadows, I find on the GH4 that I just need to keep the lowest values above 10 - 15 IRE on the Ninja's waveform. When I do that, they stay quite clean. But note that for shadows you plan to crush in post, you don't have to worry as much about keeping everything above 10 - 15 IRE. Crushing them in post with clean them up.
On a fast shoot, I just leave it at SDR and only move the slider if I need to confirm that I'm good on the highlights.
Curtis Judd thanks for the detialed response indeed! I forgot to mention that I shoot on fs700 and with slog2. I thought HDR tool is only useful for log-shooting. So on fast shooting, I guess you go with different (gamma)profiles, so SDR makes sense. Do you know any case when REC79 LUT or 'log to vid' LUT is an ideal option over the HDR ?
Hi Curtis, thanks for the video, I find it very helpful. I am thinking of buying the log profile. What is your thoughts on whether it is worthing buying one? Or should I rather get an external recorder first instead of shooting log?
Hi Haoyü, I would ask first: What problems are you looking to solve? You can do everything demonstrated here without the external recorder but the external recorder makes it easier and faster.
Thanks for the advice.
Sorry for the comment on an old video, but this is super helpful! I've ran into this issue before but I know that I should adjust to be a stop higher and check the ATOM HDR function on my shogun inferno to check my highlights and shadows to see where it all sits before bringing into post. Also, what ski resort is that? Looks like somewhere in the Wasatch mountains but could be wrong.
Thanks Corey! That is Park City Mountain Resort. Good eye!
@@curtisjudd OMG I knew it! I worked there for almost two years and loved it! I vote to see more videos in the Wasatch mountains, but that's me being jealous and missing it. Thanks again for making great videos, Curtis!
Thanks for this!
You're welcome!
Very informative! Thanks!
👍
Great guide!
Thanks!
One question about this video--something I've never seen or heard addressed when log exposure is discussed: color balance.
What is best to do with color balance. Auto, manual, Kelvin?!?!?
In the outdoor clips here I just used auto. Since log is not the same as raw, one still must get white balance set correctly. Use whichever of the three methods you are most comfortable with. When indoors, I usually custom white balance. Outdoors I'm usually more comfortable using a preset or auto.
Make perfect sense. I've always WB my log shooting in studio, and indoors. Usually used kelvin out, but I'd never heard anyone ever mention it when talking about log---focused as they usually are on exposure.
Shadows kept over 15 ire using in-camera waveform, got it. But what about those highlights? Is there a rule of thumb in your experience? Getting both a Gh5, some proper glass AND a an Atomos can be quite costly. Thank you for the video. :)
Thanks mate, I was just struggeling with the exact same problem, tomorrow I'll go out an try it out wish me luck!! :D
Good luck!
Bueno. You got right to the point and showed the proof. About 40 min shorter than the one I started (and didn't finish).
FWIW, I've found that the fan on my Inferno shuts off when it's recording (but on when monitoring). Unless it gets REALLY hot.
Haha! Thanks Erik. Interesting on the Inferno's fan. That's a nice feature!
Great vid! Just got a question cause I'm new on color grading..I'm buying a gh5s and a ninja v. Do I need to buy vlog or can the ninja v atomos can record also without having it on the gh5s?
Hi Louis, you do not need to purchase the V-Log add on because the GH5s comes with it. Also, the Ninja V can record from the GH5s when using V-Log or any of the other profiles so you’re all set. Best wishes!
@@curtisjudd Thanks a lot for the answer!I subscribed, nice material! keep it up!
Grate! How use this rule in low key and silhouette shoot with v-log?
Same principle - keep the shadows up above the 0 line on the waveform and then in post you grade them down, crushing the parts you want crushed and optimizing the the look of everything else.
Thank you so much! I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out why my Log footage from my ninja flame & Fujifilm Xt-2 combo was noisy. This explained it perfectly.
Glad it helped! Happy noise free shooting!
great tipp, thank you so much!
You bet!
Another great video that even I, an amateur, could understand. Speaking of, I shoot birds and insects as a hobby and occasional stock footage sale. I shoot Standard or Cinelike V and only do the slightest shadow, highlight, and color adjustments in Premiere, mostly because I don't know what I'm doing and don't want to spend the extra time...just a hobby. Anywho, how much extra dynamic range would VLOGL actually give me? I shoot mostly during the golden hour, when colors are at their very best. To my eye the stuff I collect on my GH5 looks great but am I perhaps missing a lot of detail in the highs and lows of my footage? I probably answered my own question but as always enjoy your response, if any. Thanks again. You are very thorough and much appreciated.
Hi! I'm guessing here but it feels like I was getting an additional stop or two of dynamic range vs. shooting on the natural profile with iDynamic off. I don't think that V Log needs to be used on every shot, but for cases where you know the range is wider (especially when there are skies and clouds involved) then V Log is useful. In studio shoots where I'm lighting the scene, I almost always go back to the Natural profile.
Great video! Question, how to expose skin tone properly using log profile? Does the 40 IRE (grey card) / 60-70 IRE (skin tone) rule still apply if I do not have LUT function on my monitor?
Yes, that is what I would do, noting that highlights or shadows may clip.
Thank you for replying but I am still a bit confused. If I am going to over-exposed one-stop using log profile, doesn't that mean I also need to expose the skin tone in a higher IRE range?
Yes, sorry for the confusion on that. Note: I am not a VLOG-L expert, but that is what I have been doing with good results.
Great! Thank you very much! Always love your video and learned a lot from them.
Thanks for this. Really takes practice with V Log. I did a whole shoot, kind of run & gun with V-Log and certainly made some mistakes. But one thing which is really annoying with the GH5 is that it doesn't let you output/view the Waveform and Vectorscope on an External Monitor! Wish it did as I don't have or can afford to get an Atomos and it would really help in being able to better judge exposure with larger tools. Thanks
Thanks for sharing your experience with this. I suspect Panasonic's perspective was that most external field monitors have exposure tools like waveforms or at least histograms but you bring up a good point.
Great vid Curtis! How would you expose for HLG on the GH5?
Great question - I haven't looked into that, to be honest.
Thanks for this info, Curtis!
You're welcome!
Hi Curtis! That was very informative and brief! I keep comming back to your channel whenever I could not find something that satisfy both these conditions. My question is how should I expose VLogL in GH5S given its dual gain? Do these same rules apply in GH5S or is there something more given its allegedly higher DR? I will not have an Atomos Recorder.
Thanks Paweł. Same for the GH5S in my experience.
@@curtisjudd OK. And would you approach the overexposing in the same way (with lenses' apetures) or you would rather recommend bumping ISO (just avioding "bad" ISO levels)?
I’d stick with the base ISO and use aperture and ND to fine tune exposure.
@@curtisjudd That is assuming that I have control over lighting. If it's too bright, no problem, I have 77mm Variable ND and bunch of adapters. However, in a church there might be quite dark. But second native ISO is 2500? That seems a lot.
Don’t be afraid to use the higher ISO, it is surprisingly clean relative to cameras which do not have dual ISO.
This is great, thanks. What are the differences between the Inferno, Shogun, and Flame as far as how they deal with V-Log out of the GH5 / GH5s?
Hi David, The Inferno and Flame are the two different series. I believe the Inferno recorders can all handle up to 4K 60p whereas the Flame series tops out at 4K 30p. In terms of HDR, I believe that they all have the ATOM HDR feature demonstrated here and treat VLOG-L from the GH5 the same way.
now you've become more familiar would you recommend v log over a flat cinelike d profile?
Yes, for shots with skin tones, I prefer vlog over cinelike d.
Awesome video. Thanks, Curtis!
Thanks Scott!
Curtis Judd, do you notice any real difference in image quality between recording to a high bitrate codec like Prores on your Inferno compared to recording internally on the GH5 to something like MP4 @ 100-200mbits/sec? To clarify: I'm talking about whether you see a difference after you've rendered out the final video for rec709? I would imagine that not too many of your clients are requesting HDR footage just yet, but correct me if I'm wrong. I'm trying to determine if the Ninja Flame is going to make a big difference for the final video I deliver to my clients. Thanks for the advice!
Hi Scott, In the types of pieces I shoot, generally not. The main reason I use the Atomos recorders is to help with workflow and efficiency. The ProRes footage edits so much more smoothly than the GH5's internal codec. It makes the edit process much faster. If I'm going to color grade somewhat heavily, the ProRes footage does seem to hold up a little better in the final output. And finally, I very much appreciate the larger screen and all of the exposure and focus tools (such as demonstrated here) during production as I can work a little faster and with a little more confidence. I've been shooting with the Atomos Shogun for 2 and 1/2 years and I really like it. I can still shoot without it, but when it is feasible, I definitely use it.
Curtis Judd thanks so much! Really helpful.
Excellent stuff!
Thanks Ben!
I'm anxious for the complete review of the Sound Devices MixPre-6.
We're almost there. Audio for this was recorded with the MixPre-6. Just need another week or two to feel like I've put it through all its paces.
thank you too much for this video ❤️
👍
thx for doing this
You’re welcome
Great info.
Thanks RallenMan.
Curtis, What about if you don’t have a monitor like the ninja? How about using Light Meter?
Hi Sy, Good question, with a light meter, you'll probably want to use the rule of thumb - overexpose by one stop. That's where the waveform has a little advantage and you can decide which highlights to keep (if some of them are clipping).
Curtis Judd Good to know. Thank you!
How can you adjust the shadows? I can only move the highlights 😅
When you change exposure, everything will move up or down, including highlights and shadows. If the shadows are so crushed at the bottom it will look like they don't move unless you open up your exposure quite a lot. And, as noted, sometimes there is simply more dynamic range than the camera can capture.
Curtis Judd I just want to remove the excesive noise that it's showing in an almost completely dark shot except for one light at ISO 400, but I don't know what's happening 😣
So you want the shadows crushed? You can do that in post with color grading. Or is there detail in the shadows you still want? If so, you may need to bounce a little more light into those shadows. The GH5 (or GH4) will have noise at higher ISOs but if you can light the shadows just enough and expose so that the shadow details sit at 15 IRE or higher, you can get decent results.
Okey thanks!
Big help! Thanks :-)
+Kilian Kunz 👍
very useful!
Thanks Anatoli!
Hey Curtis! Could you do a more in-depth tutorial on using the Inferno and GH5? I just picked up the one for my GH5 and I would love to know more about it and how to use it to it's full potential. Thanks!
Hi Nathan, will add that to the list!
wow! so easy to understand! I wish you can do this for Sony cameras! Sony, listen up. Curtis needs some Sony gears!
Haha! Thanks!
Hi Curtis, how about exposing for Vlog at night, how has your experience been, I've had a terrible time with noise. Thanks for the videos!
Hi Tony, I light 99% of my work so I don’t have a lot of experience with night shooting on the GH5 and VLog. But overall, I find the GH5 to hit its noise limit at anything above 1600 ISO, 3200 max. Which ISO are you generally shooting for night shots? Another thing I find is that I generally don’t use VLog for low key shots like night scenes.
Hi Curtis, so do you go with Cine D for the night shots? Thanks for the reply.
No, I almost always use the Natural profile with Contrast -3, Sharpness -5, Noise Reduction 0, Saturation -3, Hue 0.
Thank you for this. What about exposing for hlg?
I haven't worked a lot with HLG yet, but hopefully soon I can answer.
Hi Curtis, great video as usual. I'd like to know which IRE range settings do you suggest when recording in non-VLOG modes, to avoid noise in the shadows and not clipping the highlights in the GH5.
On the other profiles, I try to keep the highlights under 100 and for the shadows which I want to keep detail, above 10 or 15. But sometimes I'm ok with crushing the shadows if that's the look I want.
Would you ever consider using the Ninja Inferno as an audio recorder as well? I think it can supply 48v phantom power.
Would also love to see a full review of the Ninja Inferno with all the features and your impressions.
Hi Donnie, It could be done but I generally didn't with my Shogun. Have yet to test the Ninja Inferno. On the Shogun, the preamps sounded quite nice but were unfortunately rather noisy. So for that reason, I stuck with a dedicated audio recorder.
Here are some initial thoughts not he Ninja Inferno: Overall, I love the Atomos recorders.
I've been a long-time Atomos recorder shooter (started with the Ninja II, then Shogun, now Ninja Inferno). I find the investment very worthwhile with the GH4 and 5. The ProRes workflow makes my post life so much easier than H.264. Editing is incredibly smooth with very good quality footage. H.264 from the GH5 is a lot of work for a computer to decode so it can be choppy at times. The screen on the Ninja Inferno is a treat and definitely usable outdoors in broad sunlight. Also love all of the exposure and focus tools. Even though the GH5 now has a waveform monitor, it is much easier to work with the much larger waveform on the Ninja. False color is nice as well. Storage media is standard SSD drives so they're reasonably priced even for relatively large capacities (vs. CFast on my Ursa Mini Pro which are ridiculously expensive and smaller capacity).
There are some costs in addition to the price tag so I know this isn't perfect for everyone. Those that need to keep their rigs super small and light aren't going to want to use a recorder like this, at least not all the time. Also, they eat through batteries like crazy. I power my camera and Ninja with an Anton Bauer gold mount battery so it isn't an issue for me, but this makes the rig even heavier.
Looking to do a full review as well.
Thank you!
One stop overexposed-good to know this rule of thumb for shooting in a log profile. Will test it out on Canon when/if I decide to shoot in log.
Hi Patrick, applies to V-Log on the Panasonic GH5 and may or may not apply to other cameras. Definitely experiment for your C200.
Im a Canon shooter but just picked up a GH4 for $500💪 as a B camera with V log on it. I’m experienced in shooting log (S Log 2, Canon log etc) but am trying to nail down factual info on whether or not the GH4 clips at 80IRE when set to V-log as I’ll be using my Zebras to set exposure for that camera. I suppose I can run some controlled tests but as I’m new to Panasonic mirrorless cameras I figured I’d ask 😃😃😃
Yes, it clips somewhere around 80 IRE. Definitely still do your tests to confirm.
Curtis Judd awesome, thanks so much! 🤘🤘
YOU SAVE ME!!!!!
👍
this is a revelation. I love the GH4, but as you know I didn't have a lot of time on it before I jumped the gun to the big cam (rookie mistake). I've been terribly hit & miss with the GH4, fear of over exposing seems to be why now that I've seen this. I've gotten lucky a few times & when I do, the image quality is crazy good. I want to get one of them infernos.
Dear Cary Judd, I had the same issue and glad to hear this helped. Let's get you an Inferno and another V-mount battery to power it. It will also double as a nice space heater in the winter. ;-)
Curtis Judd haha, do they
Do they run that hot?
Not too bad since the fan runs 100% of the time. But they do burn through batteries like you would not believe.
Hey Curtis. My GH5 came yesterday and my V Log L came today. I shot some footage and the brights and shadows were well between 0 and 100, like 20 and 70, but when I started to color correct and grade I still had hot spots that I can't get rid of. This was exposing 2 stops (my mistake) to the right, but as I said, highlights were still around 20 on the waveform in Premiere Pro.
I don't know why I'm telling you all this ;-) I guess it was because I exposed 2 stops rather than 1 stop over? Here's a still:
www.flickr.com/photos/93620875@N05/36768500425/in/dateposted-public/
Oh yeah, it was overcast when I was shooting. There shouldn't have been any hotspots.
Yes, 2 stops is more than the GH5 can handle and that is perfectly normal, even in overcast conditions. Pull that back to about 1 stop over while shooting and you should be good in most situations (note that in highly dynamic situations, clipping can still very much occur since the GH5 is able to handle about 12 stops with V Log). Happy shooting!
Thanks! You're one of the few people who responds to questions from nobodies like me, and quickly too. Cheers!
Please.one.seat.myrecoradar.and.vidio.sir.please.seand.price.sir
Sorry, I do not understand.
there's flaw in this video about noise.. it's not that you underexpose...it's not that you overexpose... which you should do.....but it's about V Log.. yes, anytime you employ a log rhythmic gamma...your gonna get noise.. with any log.. Sony S Log.... Canon C log... etc... so, your gonna get noise... PERFECTLY NORMAL!!! remember, you don't judge an image on log...but rather the image after log, because that is what log is for...
Hi Alexander, thanks for your comment. I'm finding very little noise in the log footage after it is graded when I overexpose slightly. Would you be willing to explain further? I am trying to learn so any insights are most appreciated. Thanks!
+Curtis Judd Hi Curtis... I'm not sure what you want me to explain.. based on your settings.... you are doing everything right.. your not seeing noise because you overexposed slightly... and are judging footage after the GRADE!!
How does noise disappear after grading a shot? I didn't see noise in the log footage (when exposed properly) or in the graded shots (again, when exposed correctly). I guess I'm confused about your note that there is noise in the log footage but it isn't there after grading.
clipping over noise any day!!!!
Fair choice!