So, you are Sean! Who are you? Are you a practicing Orthodox Christian or something else. In any case, thank you for making this interview possible and helping to boost Treys visibility. Trey really is doing God's work and I believe he is a wonderful, kind person. Also, AH and Nate are based! God bless!
"everyone wants to talk about the divine feminine. The answer is shut up" I'm definitely stealing than one Jonathan! Such a great line! Great conversation, thanks for sharing
My pleasure. As an a heritage Euro North American, I am thoroughly interested in how other heritage Euro North Americans conceptualize their place in the world as peoples.
Pageau’s comment on the need for balanced storytelling about the foundation of Quebec call to mind “Black Robe”, a 1985 novel by Brian Moore about a Jesuit priest who travels to the Huron country with a band of Algonquians. The 1991 movie adaptation is one of my favorite films ever.
Something I would love to see the Universal History project touch on is the rich tradition of Western Balladry. The ancient ballads of the British Isles like “Tam Lin” and “Thomas the Rhymer” are deeply Christian and stand as rich folklore.
The whole categorization of Monsters you guys discussed got me thinking about our internal monsters, our passions, so there are passions that can be tamed in time with prayer and a sacramental life, there are passions that will need to be constantly "killed", that you really need to keep a constant vigil for life, and then there are this passions that are somehow dormant that you don't want to wake up and you've never had to battle against. So yeah, we are full of wild monsters.
The part about Christ as the redeemer of the fool as well as the worm was interesting but I would heed Jonathan's advice about being careful. It's better to talk about these things off camera
It was weird because of the birds. It took me a minute to realize what I was hearing. However, I didn’t think it was distracting and didn’t take away from the conversation
I haven't watched all of this yet, but what Pegeau talks about around 1:04:09 about following the law and breaking the law, some would argue that's the nature of religion in general and the old covenant in particular, and that the breaking of the law was a holy happening. For example, killing is forbidden; sacrifice is holy. Sex is forbidden; matrimony is holy. Seeing the face of God is associated with death; entering the holy of the holies was a commanded, holy, act. The transcendent layed in just what Pegeau is talking about, following and breaking the law. I think you could take this even further and tie it to what you talk about in the end of the stream (1:27:50) and say that christian communion is a following and breaking of the law: you're not allowed to eat God (and you're not allowed to eat the fruit of knowledge), except then you're commanded to ("take this cup away from me", etc.) Would be interesting to know what you guys think. Maybe you've talked abt it in other vids.
From what I understand, he is arguing against this notion by positing that viewing it that way results in an unending spiral towards madness. Which is why he named sabbati-frankists. If you would want to see what the results are from your reasoning just looking at what the sabbatai-frankists manifested themselves.
You got many crucial things wrong, which led to you inverting the meaning of "following and breaking the law". - Killing is not forbidden, murder is. Sacrifice has nothing to do with either. Otherwise why would God forbid human sacrifice? - Sex is not forbidden, adultery is. Matrimony has nothing to do with either. Otherwise why would God say "be fruitful and multiply" at Creation, and why would God forbid lusting after your neighbor's wife at the giving of the law on Mt Sinai? These two things you got incorrectly led you to the inversion that "breaking the law is a holy happening". This is a perversion of the true meaning. The law was a shadow of the true covenant in Christ, but that doesn't mean that they are untrue and to be broken.
@@BrightNeoDark Oh, ok, thanks, I'll look into it. Just to be clear I didn't mean to imply any breaking of the law would immediately be holy but I see now how I missed his point lol
I think the easiest way to understand "there is some truth to how transcendence breaks the law but you have to be careful and specific" is to just look a clip of what Aghori hindus do on youtube.
Something that popped into my head in the discussion of Christ unifying the higher and the lower waters is how the separation of the higher and lower waters was the only day of creation which God did not say was good, perhaps because it was a distinction meant to be erased by the incarnate logos
Very interesting observation, but I think you’re reading too much into this. It’s a mistake in translation. The old translations of the Bible, done from from the Septuagint, not the Masoretic text, such as Old Slavonic or Greek, have the ‘it is good’ part. The English translations are actually pretty flawed. As a matter of fact a lot of the modern translations are.
I think the thing missing in pop music is execution. There's really nobody executing like the giants of old anymore, but I think it's just a matter of time for christians to take over. Though taste is kind of subjective there are some things you can speak about objectively. Rock tended to be the leaders in engineering tone. Nobody sounds as good as led Zeppelin on a good set of speakers, and drummers will still tell the engineer "i want a Bonham kick." But Rock's limitation is technicality. Steely Dan sucks. These days everything is so compressed it sounds abstracted from the real world. Compare to when people had one mic and you could hear the room. Then there's classical which is fairly stagnant but has the best melodies IMO. The seasons petit adagio is like one of the best melodies you'll ever hear. Then there's jazz which is like the opposite of classsical in terms of improvisation but also can suffer from lack of melody or engineering but have crazy harmonies and rhythms. There's guys like Snarky Puppy that can blow you away, but still fail to bring everything together. We could dive into genres but really i think the place where Christians can step into would be execution. There's very few people, and i would say no christians I've ever heard bring all of these elements together: engineering, melody, technicality, innovation. The last band I'd say that came close and brought about a new sound was MUTEMATH but they weren't Orthodox and i think someone could take it further. Dirt poor robins is pretty good i won't lie, but they sound a lot like if Muse came out of Nashville. I'm talking about a band that is undeniable like say a Deftones or Mars Volta taken to the next level.
I got into the Mars Volta at the same time that I got into mewithoutYou (I'm ancient and I saw them both live in the most intimate of settings, well before their larger fame, relative to those early days). MewithoutYou, while non-denominational and notionally Christian is what brought me closer to my understanding of God. They have all those elements you've described and I wish they could've done more and stuck around for longer, I know I'm not the only one they opened a gateway for towards Christ's teachings and made them resonant before I ever even considered it (as a person who grew up in the Middle East among Muslims).
mocking christian rap is a bad look. it's easy to critique almost anyone or anything (and it would be easy to send criticism your way too). if someone is legit moving by faith, then leave them be, and follow the words of our Lord: "for whoever is not against us is for us" (st. mark 9:40). i never understood extending so much grace to unbelievers and being so sharp towards your brothers and sisters. like the meme: "why not (grace towards) both?"
@@atanas-nikolov "bad art"? "99%" (which was the number given) is bad art? i can agree that some is def bad, but 99% is nonsense. nonsense is a bad witness. trashing other Christians is a bad witness. a wack youtube reply is a bad witness. "bad witness" is an interesting game to play... should we apply a subjective standard of art to this very video? there are several things that could be said, but i'd rather appreciate what these guys are attempting to do here rather than trash it. if we want to critique all of Christian youtube as art, which few dozens of channels of the millions will meet the standards? how about modern authors? one of these dude's had the audacity to criticize modern rap, while having his own symbolism formulation slapped down by his very own guest! and on and on... easy to play the critic, and pass off a lack of charity as concern for the Faith
@@zdmc23 I'm not commenting on what they've given as an estimate. I'm saying what the reasoning would be. I do like some Christian rappers. But of course it is bad witness. It feels contrived, forced and fake for many folks. It's the same for the majority of CCM. The lyrics feel cheesy, and Christian rap is predominantly for Christian consumption, it seems. I don't see the video as art. Even if it was, so what? Criticize it, that's fair. There is a difference between flawed art and bad art. And a lot of the Christian sphere produces bad art. It is art with an agenda, let's say. That's why I and many others like NF. Because he's going at it the right way. I used to listen to a lot of Lecrae and KJ-52, and liked those for the most part, as well as Manafest. And yet, none of those really make me scream "Yeah, now that's something to show the world." Same with a lot of Christian metal. I like Theocracy exactly because I can show them to a metalhead fan and they'd appreciate it. Or HolyName.
Rule #1: You do not talk about the non-duality of the waters. Rule #2: YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT THE NON-DUALITY OF THE WATERS. Really, it's a can of worms.
This is the lie in this video, this is Patriarch Paul. Serbian priest. Who lived in Belgrade and died in 2009, has nothing to do with Jews. Because he is Orthodox
It was an honour
So, you are Sean! Who are you? Are you a practicing Orthodox Christian or something else. In any case, thank you for making this interview possible and helping to boost Treys visibility. Trey really is doing God's work and I believe he is a wonderful, kind person. Also, AH and Nate are based! God bless!
Wish I could have been there!
"everyone wants to talk about the divine feminine. The answer is shut up" I'm definitely stealing than one Jonathan! Such a great line! Great conversation, thanks for sharing
I am so glad you asked Jonathan about the place of the French Canadians/Québécois place in Universal History. Thank you!
My pleasure. As an a heritage Euro North American, I am thoroughly interested in how other heritage Euro North Americans conceptualize their place in the world as peoples.
TELOSBOUND IS THE FUTURE OF ONLINE CHRISTIAN PHILOSOPHY!!!
God bless you all
Pageau’s comment on the need for balanced storytelling about the foundation of Quebec call to mind “Black Robe”, a 1985 novel by Brian Moore about a Jesuit priest who travels to the Huron country with a band of Algonquians. The 1991 movie adaptation is one of my favorite films ever.
Great chat guys.
Loved the section on monsters and the part on non dualism. Keep up the good work bros. God bless ☦️
Pageau has a brilliant mind
Jonathan Pageau and Denis Villeneuve can make the Epic History of Le Quebecois
"a quick one before the eternal worm devours Connecticut" I teared up listening to the worm discussion again today
Lovely conversation, thank you guys !
45:46 Peter Rollins: the libidinal pursuit of the Lack and grace (freedom from that impulse)
GREAT SHOW! GOD BLESS YOU ALL!
I love this channel so much, great work! Thank you for the awesome content!
Wow! How exciting to get a man like Pageau. You guys are killing it on this channel. 🔥
I absolutely love what he said about story telling and positivity. Coming to say what you mean. Couldn’t agree more.
Something I would love to see the Universal History project touch on is the rich tradition of Western Balladry. The ancient ballads of the British Isles like “Tam Lin” and “Thomas the Rhymer” are deeply Christian and stand as rich folklore.
Wow amazing! Congrats guys! :D
Love to see it, keep up the good work lads!
The whole categorization of Monsters you guys discussed got me thinking about our internal monsters, our passions, so there are passions that can be tamed in time with prayer and a sacramental life, there are passions that will need to be constantly "killed", that you really need to keep a constant vigil for life, and then there are this passions that are somehow dormant that you don't want to wake up and you've never had to battle against. So yeah, we are full of wild monsters.
10:18 was thinking of Cormac. Tons of thoughts about him.
Awesome talk, the biirrrds are really speaking in this one!
49:10 depends…how do you see the self? The person is the nexus/locus of all meaning. And therefore…existence?
Great discussion guys
The part about Christ as the redeemer of the fool as well as the worm was interesting but I would heed Jonathan's advice about being careful. It's better to talk about these things off camera
Marty Robbins,YES
Thanks
The simplest explanation of gift is mother's milk feeding her baby. She wants nothing back, just life and health for her baby.
It was weird because of the birds. It took me a minute to realize what I was hearing. However, I didn’t think it was distracting and didn’t take away from the conversation
I haven't watched all of this yet, but what Pegeau talks about around 1:04:09 about following the law and breaking the law, some would argue that's the nature of religion in general and the old covenant in particular, and that the breaking of the law was a holy happening. For example, killing is forbidden; sacrifice is holy. Sex is forbidden; matrimony is holy. Seeing the face of God is associated with death; entering the holy of the holies was a commanded, holy, act. The transcendent layed in just what Pegeau is talking about, following and breaking the law. I think you could take this even further and tie it to what you talk about in the end of the stream (1:27:50) and say that christian communion is a following and breaking of the law: you're not allowed to eat God (and you're not allowed to eat the fruit of knowledge), except then you're commanded to ("take this cup away from me", etc.) Would be interesting to know what you guys think. Maybe you've talked abt it in other vids.
From what I understand, he is arguing against this notion by positing that viewing it that way results in an unending spiral towards madness. Which is why he named sabbati-frankists. If you would want to see what the results are from your reasoning just looking at what the sabbatai-frankists manifested themselves.
You got many crucial things wrong, which led to you inverting the meaning of "following and breaking the law".
- Killing is not forbidden, murder is. Sacrifice has nothing to do with either. Otherwise why would God forbid human sacrifice?
- Sex is not forbidden, adultery is. Matrimony has nothing to do with either. Otherwise why would God say "be fruitful and multiply" at Creation, and why would God forbid lusting after your neighbor's wife at the giving of the law on Mt Sinai?
These two things you got incorrectly led you to the inversion that "breaking the law is a holy happening". This is a perversion of the true meaning. The law was a shadow of the true covenant in Christ, but that doesn't mean that they are untrue and to be broken.
@@BrightNeoDark Oh, ok, thanks, I'll look into it. Just to be clear I didn't mean to imply any breaking of the law would immediately be holy but I see now how I missed his point lol
I think the easiest way to understand "there is some truth to how transcendence breaks the law but you have to be careful and specific" is to just look a clip of what Aghori hindus do on youtube.
The Monster you tame, the ones you kill and the ones you let be.
Those birds.. 😮
10/10 thumbnail✨✨
Now in typical Canadian tradition you both must kiss a moose together
Something that popped into my head in the discussion of Christ unifying the higher and the lower waters is how the separation of the higher and lower waters was the only day of creation which God did not say was good, perhaps because it was a distinction meant to be erased by the incarnate logos
Very interesting observation, but I think you’re reading too much into this. It’s a mistake in translation. The old translations of the Bible, done from from the Septuagint, not the Masoretic text, such as Old Slavonic or Greek, have the ‘it is good’ part. The English translations are actually pretty flawed. As a matter of fact a lot of the modern translations are.
Saying true stuff, about false things .👍🏾
🦜🦜🦜
Interesting talk on non-dualism and negative theology. Wonder what Pageau thinks about Dionysius the Areopagite.
24:29 Symbolism happens moment
The birds are excited 😆
Yes ❤
🔥
W I S D O M from JP on non-duality etc.
Like father like son
♡
Told you.
I think the thing missing in pop music is execution. There's really nobody executing like the giants of old anymore, but I think it's just a matter of time for christians to take over.
Though taste is kind of subjective there are some things you can speak about objectively.
Rock tended to be the leaders in engineering tone. Nobody sounds as good as led Zeppelin on a good set of speakers, and drummers will still tell the engineer "i want a Bonham kick." But Rock's limitation is technicality. Steely Dan sucks. These days everything is so compressed it sounds abstracted from the real world. Compare to when people had one mic and you could hear the room.
Then there's classical which is fairly stagnant but has the best melodies IMO. The seasons petit adagio is like one of the best melodies you'll ever hear.
Then there's jazz which is like the opposite of classsical in terms of improvisation but also can suffer from lack of melody or engineering but have crazy harmonies and rhythms. There's guys like Snarky Puppy that can blow you away, but still fail to bring everything together.
We could dive into genres but really i think the place where Christians can step into would be execution. There's very few people, and i would say no christians I've ever heard bring all of these elements together: engineering, melody, technicality, innovation.
The last band I'd say that came close and brought about a new sound was MUTEMATH but they weren't Orthodox and i think someone could take it further.
Dirt poor robins is pretty good i won't lie, but they sound a lot like if Muse came out of Nashville. I'm talking about a band that is undeniable like say a Deftones or Mars Volta taken to the next level.
I got into the Mars Volta at the same time that I got into mewithoutYou (I'm ancient and I saw them both live in the most intimate of settings, well before their larger fame, relative to those early days). MewithoutYou, while non-denominational and notionally Christian is what brought me closer to my understanding of God. They have all those elements you've described and I wish they could've done more and stuck around for longer, I know I'm not the only one they opened a gateway for towards Christ's teachings and made them resonant before I ever even considered it (as a person who grew up in the Middle East among Muslims).
'St. Friendship' is a Christian artist making innovative music:
th-cam.com/play/PLuKACem2YTy7mZz3vK07V4yXS_aZTms5Q.html&si=h0aNpu7dzCmNqlqk
St. Friendship is a Christian artist making innovative music.
@@joer9156 Sounds like every bedroom artist.
@@Zeina912 Mewithoutyou is a good band, but not like a bands band, and not at a technical level like Snarky Puppy.
Imrsqd and nobigdyl have redeemed Christian rap
Christians : First time?
mocking christian rap is a bad look. it's easy to critique almost anyone or anything (and it would be easy to send criticism your way too). if someone is legit moving by faith, then leave them be, and follow the words of our Lord: "for whoever is not against us is for us" (st. mark 9:40). i never understood extending so much grace to unbelievers and being so sharp towards your brothers and sisters. like the meme: "why not (grace towards) both?"
Bad art is bad witness.
@@atanas-nikolov "bad art"? "99%" (which was the number given) is bad art? i can agree that some is def bad, but 99% is nonsense.
nonsense is a bad witness. trashing other Christians is a bad witness. a wack youtube reply is a bad witness. "bad witness" is an interesting game to play...
should we apply a subjective standard of art to this very video? there are several things that could be said, but i'd rather appreciate what these guys are attempting to do here rather than trash it. if we want to critique all of Christian youtube as art, which few dozens of channels of the millions will meet the standards? how about modern authors? one of these dude's had the audacity to criticize modern rap, while having his own symbolism formulation slapped down by his very own guest! and on and on... easy to play the critic, and pass off a lack of charity as concern for the Faith
@@zdmc23 I'm not commenting on what they've given as an estimate. I'm saying what the reasoning would be. I do like some Christian rappers.
But of course it is bad witness. It feels contrived, forced and fake for many folks. It's the same for the majority of CCM. The lyrics feel cheesy, and Christian rap is predominantly for Christian consumption, it seems.
I don't see the video as art. Even if it was, so what? Criticize it, that's fair. There is a difference between flawed art and bad art. And a lot of the Christian sphere produces bad art. It is art with an agenda, let's say.
That's why I and many others like NF. Because he's going at it the right way. I used to listen to a lot of Lecrae and KJ-52, and liked those for the most part, as well as Manafest. And yet, none of those really make me scream "Yeah, now that's something to show the world."
Same with a lot of Christian metal. I like Theocracy exactly because I can show them to a metalhead fan and they'd appreciate it. Or HolyName.
@florindragosminculescu same with youtubers? 🤔
@@zdmc23 Is having conversations and sharing opinions "art" in the sense we are talking about?
Rule #1: You do not talk about the non-duality of the waters.
Rule #2: YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT THE NON-DUALITY OF THE WATERS.
Really, it's a can of worms.
haha
Muslims and Christian’s had been saying it for a thousand years
Why is everyone intrigued with J.P.? He's all over the place.
Because he's a famous psychologist and author that has commented on Christianity through that particular lense, I suppose
Which JP?
This is the lie in this video, this is Patriarch Paul. Serbian priest. Who lived in Belgrade and died in 2009, has nothing to do with Jews. Because he is Orthodox
Origen is OBVIOUSLY? a heretic? Hmm.