BAD Sailboats - What NOT to Buy - Ep 232 - Lady K Sailing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2023
- This week we look at BAD sailboats and what not to buy, how to spot problems with a sailboat before you go see it, red flags in sailboat for sale ads and boat brokers, damaged sailboats, and sailboats that will just cost to mucht o fix. How to not buy a sailboat.
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"enough silicone to make Kardashian blush" I don't know who writes your jokes but that got a big laugh out of me.
Hahahha usually people don't catch them but I have a weird sense of humour :)
@@LadyKSailingPs new channel is awesome! While building boats i listen to them as a podcast hahaha good job!
Thanks fore a intresting and verry good Chanel👍😎🇸🇪
@@LadyKSailing No, you have the sense of humour of a Canadian of a certain age. It's a good thing.
Best line ever, "More red flags than my dating profile." These are some really good boat buying tips.
I liked the
Enough silicone to embarrass a Kardashian
@@hogfishmaximussailing5208 I literally didn't know there WAS that much silicon.
When you have rose colored glasses, all the red flags look like just flags…
@@snoopstp4189 -- and shockingly this boat owner found it - *all!*
I'm willing to bet good money that the owner has crashed the keel into coral or other rocks and part de-laminated the keelbox from the rest of the boat. That was Expedition Evans' position and it took a ton of work to fix. Also blurring the serial number means that insurance claims can't be checked.
Now that's scary!
No nothing like that the previous owner had to sell because of an up coming Bankruptcy I paid him a good price . He wanted a quick sale for some reason so I got it for a reasonable offer which shall remain between the two of us. But no broken keels etc I’m afraid to report. I don’t do a TH-cam channel as I’m too old for that. I’m classed as disabled so this sailboat is ideal for people like me, I’m walking disabled so when I use her friends come with me and I take a couple of teenagers from either Epilepsy UK or Disability Rights UK.
@@markwoods1504 this is a nonsense reply within the context of this specific boat that's not in the UK! Or even close! Any vessel that is being used to take other people out on must be independently surveyed. There are no private deals or bargains. These semi cheap boats are often disasters both financial and real waiting to happen. The insurance fraud is another potential risk.
There’s no way I would ever consider a boat without the serial numbers to check various records. I don’t know how the seller thought they could get away with that!
Very possible it was a house boat. bet some old guy lived on it for ages rather than road her hard and put her up wet. But either reality could be true so why take the chance.
Superb! I bought my first boat, an old 25ft Westerly, for under $10,000. Biggest mistake was having an outboard engine; you can't store gasoline on deck safely and easily and starting it was often a nightmare when single handed. Plus rigging; mine was rotten and cost me more than the boat to get fixed for offshore sailing. Get a pro inspection every time, it's another pair of eyes.
I saw this boat being sold out of Fajardo Puerto Rico in 2021 with a bad engine which needed replacing, I guess that's why the engine looks so clean now.
Thanks again Tim. I appreciate how this channel is about helping people make informed decisions when buying a boat. I have learned more about sailing and sailboats from you than any other sources. Thanks again from SV Keeling It! Nackawic ,NB
Insist upon a COLD start when testing the diesel. A common trick is to start a pre-warmed engine, masking compression issues.
Also, learn how to check for soft spots in fiberglass decks.
That’s an easy one. Offer $40k, no survey needed. That leaves enough to take care of everything including the aggravation and inconvenience of dealing with the seller and their broker.
Never buy the first boat you look at!
As a potential first-time boat buyer (looking for a liveaboard cabin cruiser) I am often ASTONISHED at what I see in the pictures. What is it with boat sellers and taking pictures of cluttered and often filthy cabins? Kitchens with knackered appliances laying around and rusty stovetops? Showers where they store a wet/dry vac, composting toilet(?!), or cleaning supplies? Engine compartments with old standing water? Mildewed exterior vinyl furniture? "Uncle Ed" sitting in a Barcalounger? Even a complete novice like myself can see issues with the conditions of these boats.
I agree, like put all your junk in a box and take it onshore before taking the photos. Simple stuff.
Some boats are stolen or do not have clear title. The bilge has clearly been innundated. The keel should never be rusty because on top of that these boats have significant electrics which are located in the bilge. And they do not like salt water. A friend's 54 Jeanneau had so many issues with electrics the keel and keel matrix that it was ultimately written off!
Be very very careful.
@@rosewood1 What do you mean by 'significant electrics"? And in the bilge?
@@jessiebrader2926 Sticking my nose in here and having owned a few sailboats, I would point out that the round bottom, bolt-on keel boats have very shallow bilges. In those boats - any pumps for liquids such as fuel, water and sewerage - and often electric cabling reside in a sub-floor compartment that is only inches deep. Any water in the bilge is BAD. Bilge-pump placement can be a problem in these hulls.
Maybe that was after the cleaned 'r up and they figured all good! Scary huh.
I don't think many understand just how much work it takes to properly maintain an ocean going boat! My dad cruised in a 52FT Grand Banks and my parents worked tirelessly and seemingly endlessly to keep her maintained and as perfect as it could be. It takes money, knowledge, and desire to keep them nice. You also need to know when to call in an expert here and there to help out with a number of things.
It's fun, but it does take work! Great video!
Good video presenting critical thinking needed to buy an older boat. Thanks
You really had me at keel bolts. I once looked at a beautiful boat. Even issues that were common to that model had been addressed. Then I looked at the keel bolts. They weren't bolts anymore but piles of rust. Ran from that one.
Thanks for a really interesting video, not only in the specifics, but in the general advice of taking a deep look under the surface when you are going to buy a used boat. Also good advice for honest sellers.
Beyond your professional knowledge and exceptional operational understanding of boats, I really like your "inspection logic". Keep it up.
Always be careful with POP Yachts.
As a first time boat buyer, I am sooo thankful I got a full survey (in water and out), and I would highly recommend getting one! That being said, the extensive survey still missed some things. What was missed in the survey was made up for by the fact that I was looking for a very solid potential Bluewater boat and found one. So I think it’s really important to know where you want to sail and buy a boat for those conditions.
I can add that it's very helpfully to read Nigel Calder, Dave Gerr and other professionals, also visit marinas were boat owners working with their boats and ask them questions, I'm sure you'll meet their real "Sea wolves" who will teach you a lot about boats.
Thank you for this and so many helpful videos. I’ve learned quite a bit.
You always do such a great job! Thank you
Good idea for a video. I also do boat shopping as an all-ocean Master and I always tell my clients "love the boat but don't fall in love with the boat." There is always another boat.
As a total newbie that was totally fantastic, thanks heaps!!
Great Video Tim,I live in England UK I have a 2016 Beneteau Oceanis 48 I bought it used at 18 months old it's the best sailboat I've ever had. I'm 55 now and retired so I use my Beneteau from Spring to late Autumn. If I had to buy another sailboat I'd buy another Beneteau like a shot .
One thing you didnt mention is diesel bug. I helped a club member a few years ago bring a yacht from the south (UK) to Scotland, we got barely half way and the engine shuddered to a halt. After being towed into port by the RNLI, we discovered the fuel tank had eight inches of sludge, stopping the fuel flow. We had to rig a temporary fuel tank to continue the remainder of the journey. My colleague hadnt spent money on an independent survey.
A couple of years later i was asked to help again for a similar yacht purchase movement, i couldn't help, but strongly suggested a proper survey, plus making certain there was no diesel bug, they didnt and same thing happened, engine failed after half way through a similar distance.
Diesel bug is a big problem with engines using current biofuels, especially so if the yacht has been virtually idle for several months.
Actually the boat I sailed on coming back from a Melbourne to Hobart race 25 odd years ago, had to have a temporary fuel tank jury rigged for motoring. From memory we used a cleaned out 4 liter orang juice bottle. Thankfully we only ran the motor briefly going to/from moorings and marinas . I reckon overall less than two hours total vs sailing most of 8-9 days.
It was a problem long before biodiesel was popular. It is also a problem for diesel cars refueling at stations that don't pump a lot of diesel. I once pulled a long black plastic thing -- looked like electrical tape -- from the filter after refueling at a dubious stop. Best bet is to drain and clean the tank if it's bad and always refuel where they pump lots of diesel.
I can tell you a survey does not look for diesel bug. For that you require a specialist. They get a sample from the bottom of the tank. 99% of modern fuel tanks have no drain point so you must go in through the level transducer hole. After you get the sample report, you pay for them to remove all the fuel, clean it, cut an inspection port in the tank, clean the tank and put the fuel back. You then change the brand new filters that were clogged which prompted the investigation in the first place.
As the new boat owner, you religiously take diesel bug prevention precaution’s which include Marine 16 in judicious quantities every time you refuel and never suffer from it again.
Ask me how I know…
@@achosenman9376And you are right. My approach is, you buy the boat, of course you check the sight glass on the primary filter. You replace primary and secondary filters. Bug will be often be visible at the primary. If you are serious, open the tank port and do a visual inspection. No port, then get an endoscopic camera on your phone. ($70 can save your boat and your life). You carry spare fuel filters, you put a shock dose of Grotomar in the tank with enough diesel to top it up. You run the engine a lot before you set off into situations where you could lose the boat if the engine stops. You have plan B ready at all times. Anchor ready to go, outboard on the dinghy serviced and fully fuelled, sails ready to raise immediately. Surveyors have a lot of other stuff go deal with and will only do fuel and oil tests if you specifically request, and it will be a extra fee for service. Fancy paying a surveyor 2 hours wages to drive to and from a fuel specialist? Not me.
Yup. Friend of mine bought a used sailboat in Rochester, NY. Sailed it home to Chicago. In Erie, PA the diesel quit running. This was early in the Spring and open boat yards were a rarity. Did find a place. Fuel filter was logged, fuel/water separator was a mess. Had the tank pumped out. Lots of crud and sludge in the bottom. Previous owner assured my friend that all recommended maintenance was up to date. Hah!
I sailed a Benetau from San Juan to key west. It was so squeaky and creaky, You couldn't sleep in it under sail.
Jenneau and Beneteau also both comply with French regulations, including BRASS through hulls. You'll need to replace every one of them with BRONZE or Marelon as fast as you can.
Brass thru-hulls on all new B and J boats? I did not know that. Another reason to avoid them.
I wouldn’t let that put me off, you can get many years out of brass thru hulls, at least ten or more years, usually it’s the below the water line thru hulls that deteriorate first, the above water line thru hulls will last for ever. Yes changing the below water line thru hulls can be a really nasty difficult job, the best way is to undo the hose clamps remove the hose, grind off the exterior flange and knock the old one into the boat, and just replace the thru hulls of your choice. Thru hull hardware is readily available in any good marine hardware store.
I’ve been repairing and restoring boats for 35 years. Stay clear of Jenneau and beneteau if you plan to leave the dock.
@@hughmaxwell8143What are the biggest issues you’ve seen?
Another great video, Tim! I did my ASA 103/104 on a Jeanneau 42. It was the 3 cabin model and the aft berths were quite small. But I really like the aft stateroom model. That was really nice!!! At some point, I will want your help though. Not just with buying the boat, but finding a qualified and reliable skipper who can help me get that blue water experience I need. There's nothing that can replace hands-on experience, no matter how good your ASA instructor was.
Learn by doing! That's a great point!
Your videos are very informative. Keep it up. Thanks.
I sold my Bavaria 41f from 2003 bolted keel aft cabin sloop etc etc, and bought a 1980 Henry Wauquiez 43f Ketch Encapsulated keel 16Ton sailboat, i love it ❤️⛵⚓
Absolutely essential is to include the steering gear in any assessment. In my estimation more boats are abandoned on passage because of steering gear failure than for any other reason.
Buy the boat strip all good parts then scuttle it for insurance monies
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24based pirate advice
A lot of great tips! Keel bolts. Especially! Also recognizing the too good to be true price and blurred out registration.
Very well researched and very well presented sir. Everyone who watches this video can learn from this. It’s human nature to become swept up emotionally with certain purchase decisions (your first home is a great example). One can easily become completely blind to the hair on the object of one’s desire. Having a neutral third party to talk to is worth every penny and every minute spent on an unbiased review.
Though the same
I really enjoy your videos. Thank you brother. 🙏
That boat was not just a walk away from but a run away from boat. Personally, I do not do plastic fantastic boats which knocks out most if not all of these smaller sailboats. Bolt on keels are another no go. I also prefer to deal with reputable brokers and a survey is never overlooked, it is a must and money well spent.
Thank you sharing with us this info.
I have a 42ds and they are great boats, ours is a 7' draft having sailed from the uk, and round the Caribbean, this year we went through the Bahamas, yes its tight In some sports but we never had an issue.
At first glance it looks nice. Thank you for opening my eyes!
I hope you can publish another video with this kind of superb content. Your advice is excellent, and it really helps novices like me to remove any rose-tinted glasses.
VERY helpful, thanks!
I got a survey and the boat was still a lemon. I'll do my own inspections from now on.
Wonderful expertise! Thanks!
Great video. That owner was hiding a pointy dorsal fin under his wind breaker. There are a lot like it. Caveat emptor x 10.
Thanks.
I’ve proudly talked 4-5 people out of buying a boat.
Like you, I’ve got lotsa stories on this.
Thanks for another great show, Tim! I think your being too hard on the fin keel. It should not be that big of a deal after seeing the keel bolts. Since the keel will most likely fall off during the return trip from the survey, the buyer can just replace it with a shoal draft when they replace it! 😳
I had a 2008 45DS. Sailed her all over the Caribbean and down to Grenada. Bought her in FL and sailed the “ delivery skippers route”, straight out 26 degrees t o “I-65” and down into St Thomas, 9 days open water. She sailed extremely well to weather. My only issue with her was that Jeanneau/Benetau uses brass valves and tail pieces coupled to bronze skin fittings for their thruhulls. I had multiple failures of tail pieces and two valve failures in my 1st 6 months of ownership (purchased May 2016). At my first opportunity we hauled her and replaced all 16 thruhulls with Meralon thruhulls. Never lost a night of sleep after that. I’ve posted on this topic in the Jeanneau Owners Group several times. If you own one of these, keep a watchful eye on your thruhulls and replace them as soon as you get the opportunity.
Great video expert knowledge, experience and advice will save you a ton.
Where does this guy get all that knowledge thank you for the knowledge and unbiased view of your topic.
Thanks for watching!
Great analysis, thank you
Thanks for the excellent advice
this video was very helpful, I wasn't entirely sure what to look for, I mean I know of some stuff but this example is very good and was very useful. Thank you!
Good delivery of the main points, going from positive experience to Do Not Go There Listing. Good boats are smaller boats also with no substitution for Value for Money. Boat terms means - it has to be in very good shape or it will take double the money to get it back into good shapte. Thus you saved the client ALL there money, as it would have been a total loss......
Another great video sharing lots of useful information. Thank you.
Good information Tim. Thanks
thank you for your advice
I listened to your advice about this subject
A few more also.
I now liveaboard a nice beneteu in Grenada. It’s a year 2000.
Ya maintenance is always a thing but overall she’s healthy
No major costs at this time. I have a truck camper at home in Alberta. I sat in that and told myself imagine living in this space outside is water , deep water lol
No thanks I need a bigger boat , but not too big , 38’ ahhh stretch out walk around and it’s an awesome treat to sail so far as a beginner .
Thank you for these videos. It’s a BIG help for anyone thinking of sailing. Saved me a lot of time and money I believe !
I was a mechanic for Cat by trade. Not a rich man so I needed to be careful.
I’ve already met a few that sold everything to go sail the dream. They bought nice newer boats with their life’s work and once the thrill was over the cash was gone. The boats for sale to get rid of it fast. Big mistake. Housing has gone crazy in cost.
Their screwed , back to work if they can.
Thanks again for the help 😁
you're a diesel mechanic in an popular cruising spot. I bet you never have to buy beer or beef if you feel like supervising someone's trouble. smart man, well done you!
that is a cautionary tale if there ever was one. thx.
I do a fair bit of consulting like you do for local people. One thing that I have come to suggest to potential buyers os to just avoid anything listed by Pop Yachts. In my experience they have yet to be the actual listing broker. Instead, they seem to hijack listings from legitimate brokers then charge a fee to basically arrange a showing with the actual broker. At least, that was my experience on at least 3 Pop Yacht listing that I can quickly recall. Good show and good info as always. 👍👍
That's an interesting comment most of the pop boats I see and I look more I powerboats are all tired and rough and they have been on the market a long time with desperate sellers
But are they bad boats or are you just saying you don’t like them for stealing brokers listings
TH-cam has helped me spot real estate agents with extra steps; and also how to buy good boats. Cheers.
Very sensible and enjoyable advice. Excellent video. Thanks
Having lived in PR, I believe the social norm there is to "cover up" any faults with duct tape and paint until something falls off. You see it with the homes, cars, and boats. PR population don't have a lot of money, and in my experience, don't take proper care of things from an American perspective. I simply wouldn't consider a boat from there. This isn't a racist thing, simply an acknowledgement of differences in typical mindset from what I'm accustomed to stateside.
On any Beneteau, Jenneau or even Lagoon Cat, the bulkhead tabbing cement and joints should be checked. This cement may deteriorate prematurely reducing the bond. This can especially be the case when exposed to salt water. Not to be mistaken with the Lagoon bulkhead design issues.
I love the video, very informative
I’m glad I came across this video which spoke very highly of Jeanneau, myself and the owner of his Viking 65 which I’m the captain of, is looking at a sailing yacht as his retirement yacht, we looked at a 56 exclusive, which was new in 2018, it’s a lovely boat that was left in storage for four years, so it has obvious sign of neglect, which could be sorted out quite easily, but having now seen this video makes me push the buyer even harder into purchasing this particular yacht. 😊
this is a must watch for any potential boat buyer - thank you!!!!!
glad to help! thanks for watching :)
Thanks for your good advice
Good video, thanks. During the first boat, i wondered when the subject of Jenneau windows would come up.
We have a 2002 jeanneau 40DS they are good boats. We have the 6.5 draft. We just spent a month in the abacos with no issues. We spent months in Florida again with no issues. So don’t let a deeper draft stop people. You might have to anchor out a bit further but we haven’t found anywhere we couldn’t go.
Thanks for the clues
Great commentary with your egale eye, thanks
A buddy of mine has a 38ft sim odyssey DS and he has spent a monumental amount of money fixing it all up. I believe it has the massive deep keel as well.
great info- thank you!
Always good advice.
I sure do appreciate your channel! As, I am nearing retirement, and my plans are living in the Caribbean! My plans are to live on board and enjoy the great weather and the good life! Been a subscriber since I found you a year ago! I do plan on living aboard a sailing vessel! I am a seasoned vet, as I race around Lake Michigan every year! Been to Puerto Rico, and I was in love when I landed. I'm about a year and a half, before I reach the starting line, on a body of water, not named Lake Michigan. In 1983, we took a bow first knock down. Talk about violent! I was on a C & C 41. People don't respect Lake Michigan's power! Anyway's great channel!
Outstanding survey
thank you for this - the in depth common sense would have been so useful before I bought my first and only boat (so far) - subscribed
c
Thank You!
When we were boat shopping, we were told to take a screw driver and tap the handle around the deck to listen for soft spots. The first one we looked at had a massive area on the deck that gave a muffled thump instead of a sharp thud.
Thanks for the video. Some great points. One thing you didn't suggest that I thought was it's an ex charter boat.
Perhaps a new engine as the old one was kaput. Perhaps a rebuild and someone rigged the engine hours.
Seeing it bashed around and those keelbolt problems as you say, suggests a very slack owner or one who employs unqualified, cheap shipwrights.
100k and then spending 40k to fix all those issues might still be a fair price. A 7' keel is not necessarily a disadvantage. Sails can be replaced, the interior can be scrubbed and/or painted, keel bolts can be replaced. So can the oven, which which was missing (what's up with that?). However, the seller's attitude is the worst part. Spray painting the keel bolts is sketchy and paying a deposit just to see it? No thanks.
i dont even sail but i subbed. you are a smart fella.
Great advice!
Great video! I wish I could have talked to you eight years ago when I bought my 88 43’Irwin Mlll
Cheers to you.
Oh boy.
I got hooked after seeing a Jeanneau Sun Odessey Deck Saloon 49!
I know its not the best for live aboard ocean crossings.
Thanks for the reality check.
Great tips thank you
I actually had that boat in my favorites on Boat Trader. Not a favorite anymore!!! thanks for the warnings!
Btw, thank you for this great video example. 😊
I bought a solid cruising boat with plenty of red flags. OTOH good bones and under $20k. Still restoring her 4 years later so something closer to ready to sail is another option most people prefer. Nice video. I've only seen exactly two of your videos and both provide good advice.
Me too I have good bones hahaha
Thank you
unsupported rudders are a big one for me, fiddled or dated electronics, cheap stainless, stains, cheap winches, and many you mentioned. a good job sir. k
Good advice
Thank you for you channel
I´d say that the red flags you´ve already pointed out makes it at total no-no!
Stay clear and find another better one and without any red flags even if more expensive!
Good video. Thank you!
Sounds like great information.
I always look for a one owner boat. Then I talk with them and you end up with a gem of a boat. Pay extra for it but you will save ten times the difference since it’s a looked after boat
My big red flag on the Jenneau 42 was the stove. The spot was designed for a stove with an oven. Perhaps the discoloration of the interior surfaces. No mention of the title. Blurry registration numbers tells me there may be an ownership issue.
Very informative. Liked and subscribed.
I would have been out as soon as they required the deposit to come see it. Then not being able to see it out of the water. If it’s too good to be true it usually is.
Same as the reg numbers being blurred. Hard to do the research.
@@olivei2484 agreed, its a shady deal
Great review, it’s universal, if it sounds too good to be true it probably is.
Always remember you are not just vetting the boat but the previous owner as well. If they seem off, walk away.
That’s the best advice
There's 11 million boats to choose from, in the US.
Yessss... you're buying the owner as much as the boat
@@drew6116 - or more importantly the owners problems ... self inflicted or no.
Great video Tim, thank you! (Your Newest Tampa Friends)