I live near Milwaukee, and The Eagles Ballroom. The worst mixes I’ve ever heard were there (most, tbf). I’ve also heard it sound amazing (Dream Theater, Steve Vai, King Diamond). I remember a roadie telling me when he was on the road with the B-52s, the sound guy walked in and said, “Right. Kill all the verbs, and we’ll see about the delays. Will likely bring them way down.” I think that’s a big key. Live: clarity is king! Whether it sounds like your virtual mix (aka, the record) doesn’t matter if you’re trying to fit all the ritzy-titzy moves that sound killer in the studio, like hammering a square peg in a round hole, at the cost of ruining the experience of the paying fans. You absolutely nailed it in this video! Thanks for sharing something we have all struggled with. Much love! ❤
Yeah things like reverb and delay only wash things out more in an already reverberant room. Choosing what to use and when is important. Thanks for checking the video out and hopefully seeing many more great sounding gigs!
Its hard to not dwell on it knowing that the room is also full of people who think its not sounding great, but also don't have the capacity to understand its more the room than the engineer. it can sometimes be just grit your teeth and hook into the mix. don't try to overpower the room; never works...
It can seem destructive to redo your mix but there’s obviously a point you have to learn to just call it and let the show be a show. As long as the first thought is to help try make it sound good instead of just giving up “because the room sounds bad” I think we can sleep at night.
Absolutely more videos on the way! Thanks for checking this out. Length wise will always depend on the content, don’t want to drag things out for the sake of it.
Really appreciate these kinds of videos! I’ve seen you at a couple of shows with Thornhill and Ocean grove and it sounded great both times! Wondering if you have any advice about room/pa tuning and your process on that? I feel somewhat confident in my mixing ability but this is a gap in my I’m trying to fill. I know tour can be pretty hectic but hope you can keep these vids going!
Oh rad! I have great time making these so will likely look to address p.a tuning in that. I’m definitely no pro at that topic but have a unique way of dealing with it fast
I was wondering if the Oakdale was going to be part of this video haha. I was at that show, we were hanging in the back of the room for the first couple bands and Wage War & it was pretty tough to make out a lot of details. Only when we went up closer for ERRA was I like “holy shit, the mix sounds fantastic up here.” When dealing with a difficult room, do you aim to make the mix sound ideal in a particular spot/area in the room where you think the most people will be? Or was that just the different mixes or just coincidence/unavoidable because we were in the back & so much shit was just bouncing around?
It was really location dependent in that room. The middle was the worst due to reflections and p.a relationship. In the front 3rd you would hear the p.a before some of those reflections which was great and on the sides you’d struggle with low end. I always want a balanced mix but as Erra is a “guitar” band ideally I want vocals and guitars to be on display no matter where you are.
@@joel_adamsFOHsoundThat all makes so much sense and I totally agree with that analysis. I’ve seen a bunch of shows there because it’s one of the closest venues to where I live but the sound has always been kinda rough lol. Being in the front 3rd of the crowd for ERRA was easily the best sound I’ve heard there so kudos and thanks for putting in the work to figure it out in that room!
Glad you like them. Honestly nothing crazy. Most of the footage is shot in x100vi using in built colours instead of flog2. Apply a basic lut I’ve had laying around and tweak to suit the footage. White balance and contrast being the main things. Any action cam stuff I just try match a little
Before this moment I never understood why some of my friends tended to say something like "Sound in this club is always bad" and thought that FOH is a some kind of magicians who could make everything sound well or at least OK
Sometimes it’s truly impossible. There’s so much science behind why a venue can sound great or “bad” . We’re not magicians but sometimes a FOH can work miracles. There’s so many variables but the room is the biggest
@@joel_adamsFOHsound Room and also the players or doing most of the sound ! If it's a mess on stage, even the best mix will sound bad Great video thanks man !
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Very Well said. Had this very same issue last night. Excellent perspective
Glad you enjoyed it!
I live near Milwaukee, and The Eagles Ballroom. The worst mixes I’ve ever heard were there (most, tbf). I’ve also heard it sound amazing (Dream Theater, Steve Vai, King Diamond).
I remember a roadie telling me when he was on the road with the B-52s, the sound guy walked in and said, “Right. Kill all the verbs, and we’ll see about the delays. Will likely bring them way down.”
I think that’s a big key. Live: clarity is king! Whether it sounds like your virtual mix (aka, the record) doesn’t matter if you’re trying to fit all the ritzy-titzy moves that sound killer in the studio, like hammering a square peg in a round hole, at the cost of ruining the experience of the paying fans.
You absolutely nailed it in this video! Thanks for sharing something we have all struggled with. Much love! ❤
Yeah things like reverb and delay only wash things out more in an already reverberant room. Choosing what to use and when is important. Thanks for checking the video out and hopefully seeing many more great sounding gigs!
Its hard to not dwell on it knowing that the room is also full of people who think its not sounding great, but also don't have the capacity to understand its more the room than the engineer. it can sometimes be just grit your teeth and hook into the mix. don't try to overpower the room; never works...
It can seem destructive to redo your mix but there’s obviously a point you have to learn to just call it and let the show be a show. As long as the first thought is to help try make it sound good instead of just giving up “because the room sounds bad” I think we can sleep at night.
Man pleaseee make more videos, and longer too!
Absolutely more videos on the way! Thanks for checking this out. Length wise will always depend on the content, don’t want to drag things out for the sake of it.
Really cool BTS. Next tour I'd love to learn more about this process!
Really appreciate these kinds of videos! I’ve seen you at a couple of shows with Thornhill and Ocean grove and it sounded great both times! Wondering if you have any advice about room/pa tuning and your process on that? I feel somewhat confident in my mixing ability but this is a gap in my I’m trying to fill. I know tour can be pretty hectic but hope you can keep these vids going!
Oh rad! I have great time making these so will likely look to address p.a tuning in that. I’m definitely no pro at that topic but have a unique way of dealing with it fast
I was wondering if the Oakdale was going to be part of this video haha. I was at that show, we were hanging in the back of the room for the first couple bands and Wage War & it was pretty tough to make out a lot of details. Only when we went up closer for ERRA was I like “holy shit, the mix sounds fantastic up here.” When dealing with a difficult room, do you aim to make the mix sound ideal in a particular spot/area in the room where you think the most people will be? Or was that just the different mixes or just coincidence/unavoidable because we were in the back & so much shit was just bouncing around?
It was really location dependent in that room. The middle was the worst due to reflections and p.a relationship. In the front 3rd you would hear the p.a before some of those reflections which was great and on the sides you’d struggle with low end. I always want a balanced mix but as Erra is a “guitar” band ideally I want vocals and guitars to be on display no matter where you are.
@@joel_adamsFOHsoundThat all makes so much sense and I totally agree with that analysis. I’ve seen a bunch of shows there because it’s one of the closest venues to where I live but the sound has always been kinda rough lol. Being in the front 3rd of the crowd for ERRA was easily the best sound I’ve heard there so kudos and thanks for putting in the work to figure it out in that room!
these are so sick, thanks for sharing, joel
not sound related question: how do you colour grade these video? the colours are absolutely beautiful 🤩✨
Glad you like them. Honestly nothing crazy. Most of the footage is shot in x100vi using in built colours instead of flog2. Apply a basic lut I’ve had laying around and tweak to suit the footage. White balance and contrast being the main things. Any action cam stuff I just try match a little
@@joel_adamsFOHsound ah thanks for replying, I've heard only good things about the fuji, might try it some time :)
Before this moment I never understood why some of my friends tended to say something like "Sound in this club is always bad" and thought that FOH is a some kind of magicians who could make everything sound well or at least OK
Sometimes it’s truly impossible. There’s so much science behind why a venue can sound great or “bad” . We’re not magicians but sometimes a FOH can work miracles. There’s so many variables but the room is the biggest
@@joel_adamsFOHsound Room and also the players or doing most of the sound ! If it's a mess on stage, even the best mix will sound bad
Great video thanks man !
100% right. There’s a lot of variables. Thankfully in a touring realm one of the consistencies I have is my bands abilities.