R i p Dan, absolute legend and we can all thank him for helping get us into horsepower. As a kid i was glued every saturday morning to these shows. Legend ! Thank you
I love these old videos. I used to watch them with my dad on the weekends on TNN I believe. This shows how far the aftermarket parts hell even stock cars have come technologically.
i have a zz4 in a 1979 Chevy Malibu classic with a bw power brute super t10 4 speed from Bryan at s&k speed it rocks in 2nd gear i had 327 l79 but you had to rev it up to make power i like the zz4 better better drivability it is just right you dont spin the tires you take off like a rocket i have a old holly 3 barrel i am looking to try
Well I'd say that motor swap was a mission failure! The original 350 had an output of 360HP and then the new motor had an output of 448HP and yes I'm fully aware it was on an engine dyno and had other modifications that was taken off but had a final output a tad over 330HP, hmm I'd say that was not the best intentions they should've just modified the original motor IMO! YOU WIN SOME AND YOU LOSE SOME!!😁😉
I love this old show. So funny though "These factory seats aren't comfortable for the long haul." Chuck fucking barely squeezing himself into those new bucket seats 😂😂
There's SAE gross HP, SAE net HP and then there's wheel HP. All are measured quite differently. 𝑮𝒓𝒐𝒔𝒔 𝑯𝑷: The 1970 LT-1 was rated 360 SAE GROSS HP. That was measured at the crank, with an open exhaust and no engine driven accessories(water pump/alternator/etc). When Horsepower TV tested the new engine on a dyno, under similar conditions as Chevy did with the LT-1 back in 1970, it produced over 400 GROSS HP. 𝙉𝙚𝙩 𝙃𝙋: Net HP is also measured at the crank but with a full exhaust and all driven accessories as the engine would be installed in a car. Chevy published both the GROSS and NET HP of the 1971 LT-1. The full exhaust and driven accessories resulted in a NET rating of only 275 HP vs a GROSS rating of 330 HP. A 55 HP loss. 𝙒𝙝𝙚𝙚𝙡 𝙃𝙋: Wheel HP is obviously measured at the tires in a fully assembled car with power being delivered through the transmission and axles. All those components have inefficiencies and losses. Conservatively, depending on FWD vs RWD and Auto vs Manual, driveline losses will take another 10-12% away. Older transmissions like a Turbo 400 or C6 will eat up more horsepower than a modern auto. Even the old 4 speed manuals aren't nearly as efficient as a current 5 or 6 speeds. A factory stock "360 HP" 1970 LT-1 Camaro made well under 300 HP at the tire. Probably somewhere around 275-280. While 50-55 RWHP more than stock might not seem like much, also remember that the 1970 LT-1 had a solid lifter cam with 11:1 compression. The engine they swapped in can now run on modern pump gas and will require less maintenance.
Bout to install this Muncie. If it looks different its because i put on a bunch of shit you can't afford that i get free because I'm Fatty Arbuckle and you're not.
I think they were made back in the late 90s. Used to watch it on TNN every Saturday morning back then. Horsepower TV, My Classic Car, and The American Muscle Car used to air every Saturday morning in the late 90s on TNN.
The only acceptable "upgrades" I saw in this video was the HEI distributor and the exhaust. There absolutely no chance I'd give up an LT-1 350 for that ZZ4 crate motor. A simple rebuild and a 30/30 cam with a little porting and a single plane intake and a valve spring rocker upgrade would put you well beyond the ZZ4. And still have that solid lifter high compression LT-1 magic! Those seats are hideous, the accessory drive belongs in the scrap yard, and you can rebush the stock shifter with bronze bushings. Anyone who would do that shit to that Z/28 doesn't deserve it.
Solid lifter high compression magic? You mean oily valve lash adjustments and killing the power by retarding timing to run on unleaded pump gas? You mean beating the unhardened valve seats to death? That magic? Have you priced just having a set of 50 year old heads professionally rebuilt lately? Cleaning, magnafluxing, installing hardened valve seats and new valve guides alone will cost almost as much as new aluminum heads and won't have anywhere near the same flow. While not shown in this clip, they also swapped the ZZ4 113 heads for later ZZ5 style "fast burn" heads. The 113's flow as much as 1970 LT-1 186's and the "fast burn" heads make both look like late 70's smog heads. At 0.300 they flow 183cfm vs 187cfm from the 186's at 0.500. The "fast burn" heads at 0.500 absolutely smoke the old double humps with 254cfm of flow. And no, you ain't home porting a set of 186's in your tool shed to match the flow of new unported "fast burns". Pros might get 265cfm out of a set of 186's on a good day and that's assuming there's even enough material before cutting into the coolant passages due to 50 years of rust and core shift. I do agree with you about the seats they chose though. The factory lowback seats suck but a set of 3rd gen seats reupholstered to match the rears would have improved driver support and looked far better.
That and those damn seats. The original ones looked better. Did you see how weird and uncomfortable his fat sss looked sitting in that Chineseium seat? Gawd!
@@matthewjohnson6047 Carbs make higher hp peaks slightly that EFI on engines due to how they mix air/fuel together... Still, should NOT resulted in 120hp loss.
U look very uncomfortable in the new seat. Those seats are not made for anyone over 185 lbs. U should've left those on the shop floor. Bolsters are not needed for 330 hp. The old seats even look better.
The ZZ4 is a 350 with a roller cam, a 1 piece rear main seal and the heads they chose will out flow legendary 'Camel Humps' any day of the week. There's also no need to machine 50 year old heads for hardened valve seats or run fuel additives like with the 11:1 domed pistons and ancient wedge chambers. They ended up with 80 HP more at the crank on 1.5 points less compression burning pump gas. The only advantage the original LT-1 had was 4 bolt mains(which can be added to the ZZ4 block) and slightly better rods. Neither of which are needed at that power level and RPM. Which is the better engine again???
Not really a ZZ4 anymore though. They swapped the 1989-91 L98 Corvette style 113's for GM performance "fast burn" heads and installed an LT4 hot cam. They don't give you a very good view of the graph, but if you look closely it pulled all the way to 6K.
It's stupid to pull a numbers matching 350 from a classic z28. A modern cam and some headers would have made plenty of difference, saving the original exh manifolds for a future restoration if desired.
@@matthewjohnson6047 No, the rusted out plain jane pos in a junkyard is not the same as a numbers matching Z28. WTF do you know? What exactly did I need to calm down about? Was my original comment to exciting for you?
I don't care z28 rs ss they are not that great dime a dozen car every one has one and every little boy pees in there pants for one I Haye seeing 500000000 at car shows or on TV or down the road it's a cookie cutter car boaring
@@Thevacomaticvacuumcorner a little elbow grease and effort would wake that engine up. Any pre 1972 motor can be woke up with timing bump, carb jetting. Those LT1s are built rock solid.
@@FabulousDisaster1988 it still need a rebuilt its from 1970 a fresh up rod bearing crank cam valve head wont hurth cheaper go crate but go a hed and keep it alllllll original i hate this so much in car culture always a kevin or karen bitchin OMG he changed the car c all the police !!!!! look the engine is original needs a rebuilts its from 1970 they went crate engine its fine can't ya just apreciate the work?
The 1970 LT1 350 was rated at 360 hp for the Camaro. Those are "gross" numbers, meaning no waterpump or any other accessories installed. Manufacturers changed to NET hp in 1972 to better show how much hp the engine makes as installed in a vehicle. The LT1 dropped to 250hp net in '72, but it also went from 11:1 compression to 9.5:1 compression. They still use "net" hp today. A "stock" truck 350 puts out about 250 gross hp, about 190hp "net". All the engine dynos you see on TH-cam are usually "gross" hp. Rear Wheel hp (rwhp) is how much hp actually makes it to the ground, and includes losses due to full exhaust and driveline friction. It can be 15% lower in a manual trans car, or 20% lower in an automatic equipped car.
I don't even know why they're showing his cuz this does not exist no more they do not have horsepower TV no more I don't know what to get in places but it must not do nothing
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 89 | คู่เอก "ยอดไอคิว vs คิริลล์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z3vYkHJ_5Ig/mqdefault.jpg)
R i p Dan, absolute legend and we can all thank him for helping get us into horsepower. As a kid i was glued every saturday morning to these shows. Legend ! Thank you
I love these old videos. I used to watch them with my dad on the weekends on TNN I believe. This shows how far the aftermarket parts hell even stock cars have come technologically.
No overgrown beards, face tattoos, or drama.
This was every Saturday when I was barely a teenager and damn it's been over 23 years ago. Sure don't make shows like this anymore
RIP Joe Elmore. Here's hoping Heaven has a shop filled with all the best tools.
Love how clean his shirt was as he comes out from under the car removing the trans lol
I love these old builds keep sending them and I'll keep watching 👍👍
*Found my new favorite channel ❤️*
I been watching since "" Backyard Mechanic '' and Two Guys Garage
Original air date March 15, 2003. And yes, this would be insane to do nowadays but back then no one cared really about 2nd gen cars
I miss this show thanks for posting
These shows were just one long info-mercial.
Love they kept factory look
Watched you from the start every weekend lol good times ❤ my favorite episode though bein a huge body by fisher guy ❤
RIP Joe Elmore
Perfect guys ❤️😁👍 from start to finish to my favorite cars
i have a zz4 in a 1979 Chevy Malibu classic with a bw power brute super t10 4 speed from Bryan at s&k speed it rocks in 2nd gear i had 327 l79 but you had to rev it up to make power i like the zz4 better better drivability it is just right you dont spin the tires you take off like a rocket i have a old holly 3 barrel i am looking to try
Just think what that old lt1 car is worth now with the original motor
Well I'd say that motor swap was a mission failure! The original 350 had an output of 360HP and then the new motor had an output of 448HP and yes I'm fully aware it was on an engine dyno and had other modifications that was taken off but had a final output a tad over 330HP, hmm I'd say that was not the best intentions they should've just modified the original motor IMO! YOU WIN SOME AND YOU LOSE SOME!!😁😉
Agreed. Would’ve kept the original block with a rebuilt kit.
RIP JOE ELMORE.
Heck yeah
I love this old show. So funny though "These factory seats aren't comfortable for the long haul." Chuck fucking barely squeezing himself into those new bucket seats 😂😂
Does anyone have intel on chuck hanson these days? Whereabouts?
THIS is the only way I would own an Older Camaro. I swapped out my 95 Camaro because I was tired of it not having the performance it should.
What was the RWHP of the older engine?
Why settle for 331 ho of the ZZ4, when the original motor was 360 ho.
There's SAE gross HP, SAE net HP and then there's wheel HP. All are measured quite differently.
𝑮𝒓𝒐𝒔𝒔 𝑯𝑷:
The 1970 LT-1 was rated 360 SAE GROSS HP. That was measured at the crank, with an open exhaust and no engine driven accessories(water pump/alternator/etc). When Horsepower TV tested the new engine on a dyno, under similar conditions as Chevy did with the LT-1 back in 1970, it produced over 400 GROSS HP.
𝙉𝙚𝙩 𝙃𝙋:
Net HP is also measured at the crank but with a full exhaust and all driven accessories as the engine would be installed in a car. Chevy published both the GROSS and NET HP of the 1971 LT-1. The full exhaust and driven accessories resulted in a NET rating of only 275 HP vs a GROSS rating of 330 HP. A 55 HP loss.
𝙒𝙝𝙚𝙚𝙡 𝙃𝙋:
Wheel HP is obviously measured at the tires in a fully assembled car with power being delivered through the transmission and axles. All those components have inefficiencies and losses. Conservatively, depending on FWD vs RWD and Auto vs Manual, driveline losses will take another 10-12% away. Older transmissions like a Turbo 400 or C6 will eat up more horsepower than a modern auto. Even the old 4 speed manuals aren't nearly as efficient as a current 5 or 6 speeds.
A factory stock "360 HP" 1970 LT-1 Camaro made well under 300 HP at the tire. Probably somewhere around 275-280. While 50-55 RWHP more than stock might not seem like much, also remember that the 1970 LT-1 had a solid lifter cam with 11:1 compression. The engine they swapped in can now run on modern pump gas and will require less maintenance.
Bout to install this Muncie. If it looks different its because i put on a bunch of shit you can't afford that i get free because I'm Fatty Arbuckle and you're not.
I like how they removed the old 350 because it makes 330hp for a 350 that makes... 330hp 😅
When did this originally air?
I think they were made back in the late 90s. Used to watch it on TNN every Saturday morning back then. Horsepower TV, My Classic Car, and The American Muscle Car used to air every Saturday morning in the late 90s on TNN.
Out of all the work you did how do you lose horsepower
Lol imagine all that work for 330 hp😂
How is this thing losing over 100hp from drivetrain loss
The only acceptable "upgrades" I saw in this video was the HEI distributor and the exhaust. There absolutely no chance I'd give up an LT-1 350 for that ZZ4 crate motor. A simple rebuild and a 30/30 cam with a little porting and a single plane intake and a valve spring rocker upgrade would put you well beyond the ZZ4. And still have that solid lifter high compression LT-1 magic! Those seats are hideous, the accessory drive belongs in the scrap yard, and you can rebush the stock shifter with bronze bushings. Anyone who would do that shit to that Z/28 doesn't deserve it.
Solid lifter high compression magic? You mean oily valve lash adjustments and killing the power by retarding timing to run on unleaded pump gas? You mean beating the unhardened valve seats to death? That magic?
Have you priced just having a set of 50 year old heads professionally rebuilt lately? Cleaning, magnafluxing, installing hardened valve seats and new valve guides alone will cost almost as much as new aluminum heads and won't have anywhere near the same flow.
While not shown in this clip, they also swapped the ZZ4 113 heads for later ZZ5 style "fast burn" heads. The 113's flow as much as 1970 LT-1 186's and the "fast burn" heads make both look like late 70's smog heads. At 0.300 they flow 183cfm vs 187cfm from the 186's at 0.500. The "fast burn" heads at 0.500 absolutely smoke the old double humps with 254cfm of flow.
And no, you ain't home porting a set of 186's in your tool shed to match the flow of new unported "fast burns". Pros might get 265cfm out of a set of 186's on a good day and that's assuming there's even enough material before cutting into the coolant passages due to 50 years of rust and core shift.
I do agree with you about the seats they chose though. The factory lowback seats suck but a set of 3rd gen seats reupholstered to match the rears would have improved driver support and looked far better.
The first mistake they made was slipping out the double pumper for vacuum, secondary carburetor.
why do you say arrsery
That and those damn seats. The original ones looked better. Did you see how weird and uncomfortable his fat sss looked sitting in that Chineseium seat? Gawd!
teddysmith457, yeah but the double pumper was used for all out horsepower, the vacuum secondary carb is used more for drivability
RIP
Replacing an LT1 with a GM crate motor is blasphemy!
Nice videos❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Wow you lost 118hp. That's a huge drop
So they go to the trouble of pulling out a perfectly good engine to swap in a crate engine with alot less horsepower ?..... These guys are ridiculous.
you do realize the first numbers were all crank numbers right? that's about an average power loss once you add a drive train and drive accessories
They say at the beginning, while Joe is pulling the engine the crate made 448, and the stock made 360. They gained 88. Loss at the wheels is typical.
That's wheel horsepower not crank horsepower
@@dalemckenzie2279 the power loss in drive train and trans* rear end is normal
Got the same engine.... 430HP/TQ... EFI on mine, how they lost 100hp+ to the wheels is beyond me...
25% loss is normal for an auto
@@jacobburden3065 20% MAX!!!! And 20% of 450= 90HP.. Not 120HP!!!
U said efi they used a carb
@@matthewjohnson6047 Carbs make higher hp peaks slightly that EFI on engines due to how they mix air/fuel together...
Still, should NOT resulted in 120hp loss.
Engine swapping a genuine 70 Z28 RS in Orange? To many, this is sacrilege.
U look very uncomfortable in the new seat. Those seats are not made for anyone over 185 lbs. U should've left those on the shop floor. Bolsters are not needed for 330 hp. The old seats even look better.
should have rebuilt the 350, better engine imo
The ZZ4 is a 350 with a roller cam, a 1 piece rear main seal and the heads they chose will out flow legendary 'Camel Humps' any day of the week. There's also no need to machine 50 year old heads for hardened valve seats or run fuel additives like with the 11:1 domed pistons and ancient wedge chambers. They ended up with 80 HP more at the crank on 1.5 points less compression burning pump gas. The only advantage the original LT-1 had was 4 bolt mains(which can be added to the ZZ4 block) and slightly better rods. Neither of which are needed at that power level and RPM.
Which is the better engine again???
you guys need to update that dyno... hello 1990
This show is ancient, too. Chuck retired forever ago and Joe may have too. Cool throwback even if parts may be quite outdated!
The ZZ4 is not a high RPM engine, max power @ 5200 and chuck thinks to buzz it all the way to 6500rpm. Nope
Not really a ZZ4 anymore though. They swapped the 1989-91 L98 Corvette style 113's for GM performance "fast burn" heads and installed an LT4 hot cam. They don't give you a very good view of the graph, but if you look closely it pulled all the way to 6K.
He knows how to buzz to the Golden Corral for all you can eat buffet. 🐝 🐝
It's stupid to pull a numbers matching 350 from a classic z28. A modern cam and some headers would have made plenty of difference, saving the original exh manifolds for a future restoration if desired.
it's not your car arrrserewholly
It's a camaro calm down they are all over the place just look in a back yard or junk yards where they belong
@@matthewjohnson6047 No, the rusted out plain jane pos in a junkyard is not the same as a numbers matching Z28. WTF do you know? What exactly did I need to calm down about? Was my original comment to exciting for you?
I don't care z28 rs ss they are not that great dime a dozen car every one has one and every little boy pees in there pants for one I Haye seeing 500000000 at car shows or on TV or down the road it's a cookie cutter car boaring
And no one ever said its numbers matching its probably just clone 🤣😂
Nowadays a 70 ½ all original would bring a good buck. It's criminal to remove that LT-1, or toy with originality.
Agreed
that original engine is low hp and tired time for a rebuild i get original but a nice driver is nice too so ya and its not a crime
@@Thevacomaticvacuumcorner a little elbow grease and effort would wake that engine up. Any pre 1972 motor can be woke up with timing bump, carb jetting. Those LT1s are built rock solid.
@@FabulousDisaster1988 it still need a rebuilt its from 1970 a fresh up rod bearing crank cam valve head wont hurth cheaper go crate but go a hed and keep it alllllll original i hate this so much in car culture always a kevin or karen bitchin OMG he changed the car c all the police !!!!! look the engine is original needs a rebuilts its from 1970 they went crate engine its fine can't ya just apreciate the work?
@@Thevacomaticvacuumcorner I'm not saying the swap was a bad idea. Save yourself the work of rebuilding engine.
That sucks you lost a 120 Horsepower..
is this an old old epidode
Surely he meant 260 stock hp. Never heard of a stock 350 putting out 360 hp
The 1970 LT1 350 was rated at 360 hp for the Camaro. Those are "gross" numbers, meaning no waterpump or any other accessories installed. Manufacturers changed to NET hp in 1972 to better show how much hp the engine makes as installed in a vehicle. The LT1 dropped to 250hp net in '72, but it also went from 11:1 compression to 9.5:1 compression. They still use "net" hp today. A "stock" truck 350 puts out about 250 gross hp, about 190hp "net". All the engine dynos you see on TH-cam are usually "gross" hp. Rear Wheel hp (rwhp) is how much hp actually makes it to the ground, and includes losses due to full exhaust and driveline friction. It can be 15% lower in a manual trans car, or 20% lower in an automatic equipped car.
@@CrankAddict Thank you
Drive it!
I don't even know why they're showing his cuz this does not exist no more they do not have horsepower TV no more I don't know what to get in places but it must not do nothing
Why did Fatty Arbuckle leave the show? These two are bullshit artists.
These shows are old
Are there any more recent releases? or only 2000 video. Guys shoot what's fresher. 21st century on the street. burn new technologies.
Horrible. Stock doesn’t make money do cars are ruined Still by aftermarket BS. This is marketing vomit. Shame.