BB30 Benefits W/O the Downside (BSA Spindle 30 Conversion aka BSA30)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- How to convert your BSA bottom bracket to take a 30mm spindle-enjoy the benefits of BB30 without the disadvantages.
We demonstrate installing First's T30 "BSA30" bottom bracket using a bike with an old square taper bottom bracket that has been in use for 10 years. We cover quick and easy quick release link removal, how to remove your chain without scratching the paintwork, and how to remove the square taper bb quickly.
Preparation is important. The bike was originally fitted with a square taper bb where the bearings are situated inside the bb shell. There was no need need to clean the bb shell's faces-in other words "dress" or face the frame. The new bearing cups to be installed, which accept a crank with a 30mm diameter spindle, are outboard and so must fit exactly flush and square with the bottom bracket shell's faces. We show how this is done in a few minutes with the tapping and facing tool. This tool also cleans and prepares the threads for the new installation.
Once the preparation is complete, the grease can be applied and then the bb cups installed using the special tool that comes with A little grease on the crank's spindle makes sure it moves smoothly into position.
The three C's, a Clear, Concise & Coherent instructional video, well presented visually and excellent commentary.......10/10
Very well made video, clean and simple.
Some of my square taper BBs are 30 and 40 years old.
If one of these newer external thread BBs lasts that long, I'll blow the Pope on national TV
hadn't considered the facing of that and likely would have just pressed them in. good video ]=
Why do people use a torque wrench as a ratchet? A torque wrench is a precision calibrated tool, using it as a ratchet only stretches the internals making it inaccurate when your using it correctly to tighten something !!
Just use a breaker bar, that's what it's for, to break nuts and bolts away, hence the name breaker bar!! I'm a mechanic and my tool box is over 4k empty and probably close to 20k including the tools, so seeing people do things like this really grinds my gears !!
Who told you that? Open up an old torque wrench sometime and you should see immediately why that is not true at all. The ratcheting mechanism works independently of the torque mechanism. And nothing moves inside the torque release mechanism at all until you overcome spring pressure. Before that, all loading is static and this will not wear anything out. If there is any premature wear at all, it is negligible.
Why you need to re thread bottom bracket shell . Isn't the thread universal that fits all kind of bottom brackets thread.
A well presented video, but, You need to correct your terminology & identifications...
You have installed a set of BSA30 bb cups into a 68 (or 73mm) english Threaded BB shell ...
BB30 is a different beast entirely, and in this example not applicable.
This crankset is effectively a BB386EVO , a relative to BB30, but utilizing an 18.5mm longer axle spindle.
Pro Wrench is bb30 and bsa30 are different?
@@erolleroll5706 I'll try to keep this simple, because it can be horribly confusing with the multitude of BB standards in the industry.
Yes, BB30 & BSA30 are completely different.
Both standards use a 68mm wide BB shell on the frame, but differ in the BB execution.
With BB30 the bearings (6806) press directly into the BB shell, so your BB width remains 68mm outside to outside.
BSA utilizes a 68mm threaded BB, which you thread in the BB cups (which house the bearings). The installed BB will have an outside to outside width of approx 90mm.
This is why a BB30 crankset will not work with a BSA frameset. A BB386 crankset will work with both setups (but will require spacers for BB30.
I hope this helps
@@prowrench7989 I'm so glad SRAM created the DUB crank arm. Now it doesn't matter what type of shell you have. You can just throw on the DUB bottom bracket that matches your bike and use any of the DUB cranksets.... It's awesome... if only more aftermarket component manufacturers would use it more...
@@prowrench7989 Even the manufacturers doesn't really know what they're talking about?
I'm getting so misleading informations from Bottom Bracket and cranksets manufacturers that my hair getting grey prematurely. I have BSA (68mm, english) frame and I want to mount FSA SL-K Light Carbon BB30 cranks. I was told I need to buy BSA30 bottom bracket to use that crankset. Is it correct or not?
@@MaciejSebastianKijowski The short answer is No, your BB30 crank will not work ( the crank axle is too short). FSA has discontinued BB30 cranks for the more adaptable BB386 standard (BB386 is an 18.5mm longer axle version of the discontinued BB30 crank) A BSA30 BB will work with a BB386 crankset (all new gen FSA cranks use this standard) but not the older BB30 version of FSA cranks. In your case, your BB30 crank will only work in a native BB30 frameset ...This is why you will often find BB30 cranks at a discount...limited compatibility.
Youre never supposed to loosen with a torque wrench
Here's the context for ignoring that "rule" in this case, a comment made elsewhere:
This particular wrench covers a range commencing at 28 Nm through to 210 Nm. It is designed for jobs way bigger than any typically encountered in a bicycle workshop, jobs on trucks for example involving M18, M20, M22, M24 bolts. Hence, on that point alone you certainly would not be using it on smaller bolts in the M2 to M6 range that typically involve carbon components and require the use of a smaller 0 Nm - 25 Nm tool (we give an overview and technique guidance on M2-M10 torque wrenches in the 'Integrated Headset' video). If you ever had to break a bolt free in that context, it would only be because it rusted with age, fused to the component body. And even then you would most certainly not use the 0-25 Nm torque wrench to break it free. Note that is a "click" type wrench where a spring is compressed; no "stretching" is involved.
In this workshop this 28-210 torque wrench is used for 1. Reaching tolerance on square taper, splined, cartridge BBs with a lower limit of 35 Nm and upper limit of 50 Nm 2. Reaching tolerance on outboard bearing cups with a similar tolerance spec 3. Reaching tolerance on non-driveside (M8) crankbolts, SRAM for example with a range of 48 Nm to 54 Nm, and square taper cranks. In its first 10 years of use (acquired in 2009) this click-type wrench has completed in excess of 20,000 cycles, with perhaps some 40 instances of being used to move stubborn bolts. It has had periodical recallibration, which I need not have worried about since it always comfortably remained inside the tolerances required for the specific jobs I need it for. It's a "Dr. Micrometer" model, by the way, local Taiwan brand...tough as guts. When I encounter the occasional tough bolt (this is a "backend" assembly shop, not a consumer-facing bike shop) then I crank the torque up to 70 Nm which is more than enough to hold it (except once where my genius buddy from SRAM, Aka, a magician with recalcitrant components lol took the frame away and sorted it quick smart). Remember, this torque wrench does not know that it not being used on a truck chassis to torque a bolt to 150 Nm or higher-the function is the same; the purpose is not. Result? Bolt freed up and life goes on. I would note that a far more demonstrably damaging practice is neglecting to store a torque wrench with the spring still at tension rather than released back to zero, something quite a few owners probably neglect to do.
Anyway, should the reader here be in at all concerned that using their torque wrench in this manner may damage it, then most certainly do not use your torque wrench in this manner. And, of course, never continue to crank a wrench once tolerance has been reached. A variety of ways to break a crank bolt free are covered in the 'Squre Taper Bottom Bracket' video, by the way, including the "old seatpost" method. Be warned though, me and my gutsy torque wrench are a part of that too. ~Glenn
@@firstcomponents That's a lot of words to justify what is still bad practice... and good info for a novice mechanic watching your video to be aware of. Disclaimers matter, even if actual practices can justifiably sometimes deviate.
That said, another thing that a novice mechanic might miss which you did right, was to use a nice not-rounded allen/hex key to break that bolt loose before using the ball-end version. Would be helpful to actually draw attention to swaps like that so that your viewers catch them, otherwise the viewers who most need to be aware of good practices will remain ignorant.
Constructive criticism.. overall great video, thanks for posting!
@@saintless Exactly what I was thinking as well...
Thank you for the video.
I understand, you can convert my old carriage BB24 (BSA) into carriage BB30
Not "BB30" strictly speaking..."BSA30" would be the correct term. But you most certainly get the benefits.
The video is good, but it was possible to indicate how wide the carriage was before it was manually milled by the master in the form of a table or picture.
So it would be clear to those who want to do a similar upgrade on their own .,🚴🤔
By the "carriage" I think you mean the BB shell? The paint normally adds maybe 0.3mm or so to the non-treated alloy surface. The original width for these shells is 68mm. "Facing" the shell cuts them back to maybe around 67.99mm or so. I'd leave that particular process to a bike shop since it takes a lot of experience to use the tool properly, plus a good tool is quite expensive. You could get away without doing this. But a job like this still would not be complete without carrying out the facing procedure.
Apparently the biking industry needs a schooling on proper torque wrench useage. Most bike mechanic videos show them using torque wrenches to break bolts loose 🤦♂️
First, I didn't like it when I saw you loosen the crank bolt with a torque wrench. That's a no no, and you should know better. Also, how did you set the bearing preload on reassembly?
why is that a no-no? i can't imagine it damages the BB. maybe because it can damage the wrench?
Thanks for the comments. We'll have to agree to disagree on technique here. This torque wrench has range from 28 nM to 210 Nm. Dialling in 70 Nm coupled with the long handle providing maximum leverage, stubborn bolts are broken free easily using the wrench consistent with its intended purpose, since even the most resistant bolts are rarely tightened in excess of 60 Nm. If the wrench "gives" at the selected torque setting, I cease applying pressure and bump it up another 30 Nm or so. I only once had a bolt that required over 100 Nm of force to remove it in over a decade of being involved in bike assembly and maintenance, in which case rather than crank the tool up to 150 Nm, for example, I had a factory pneumatic tool loosen it (probably the cause of the excessive torque originally). A shorter wrench with an old aluminum seatpost added to it for extra leverage is usually enough. Still, this trusty wrench (by Bike Hand) is in its 9th year of service and, in conjunction with periodical recallibration, is looking good for another 9 years. If anyone reading this feels that using their torque wrench in this way may damage it, then most certainly, do not use your torque wrench in this way. However in my experience I have never had any problems and, of course, I can only talk from my experience. ~Glenn
I disagree, there are two ways to ruin a torque wrench, continuing to to turn after it clicks to set torque and storing it set to a torque. Always stop once it clicks (2 clicks is fine) and release torque setting when your done using wrench.
My external Tiagra bearings are hand tightened. So far no issues at all.
Very informative and well made video. One question: why lubricate the spindle? Won't the lubrication make the spindle slip inside the bearing inner ring while it is turning under load? The idea is to let the ball bearings handle the rotational friction. Thanks
Thanks for the comment Norman. The fit between the spindle and the surface of the sealed bearing is very snug. Without a smear of grease the spindle can doggedly cling to that surface. Even with the grease it often needs a few taps with a rubber mallet (with a protective cloth between the mallet head and crank surface) particularly for the last centimeter or so in order to seat the crank properly. Without grease, you'd need to really bang it hard which is no good at all-that'll likely mark the crank surface even if you have a good pad between it and the mallet, plus put unnecessary stress on the sealed bearings. So the grease minimally assists installation, or in the worst case, simply makes it possible to install a crank in a tight fitting situation. ~Glenn
How long was the original BB, 73mm?
Because you had to cut some length in it. I thought BB30 (BSA30?) was compatible with 73mm.
I found that old toothbrush near the alley while riding to work ~~~~ O/O°
Wondered where the darned thing had got to....:D
Excellent, can u slow vid frames down another second? Please.
Hi First Components! Will this kit work with PF30 Sram Force 1 Crankset on BSA68 frame? Thanks!
An issue I've had is my bb30 spindle is 68mm long. Add the external bb30 BSA cups 2x8mm to the 68mm shell, I've got 74mm. To get the crank to fit I need to trim the shell to 52mm. Can just about mill 16mm from each side of the shell but concerned the crank arm will won't clear the frame! Any advice?
what brand of cranks are you using? did had any luck? i did bought fsa afterburn 104bcd crank silver one that is bb30 and i have bsa frame too dont know my spindle length too
I did this, but the sram dub is 29.9 not 30. Just to make it not compatible, lol.
How can I buy BB30 threaded like the one you installed in to the frame.?
02:10 Can you please tell me what tool is this? model/part number
Oh my god those bearings are so tiny
Is it possible to use bb30 in boosted MTB frame ?
So I noticed that you used a torque wrench to remove the old BB, but did not use one when installing the new one. What was the reasoning behind that?
The wrench was used to remove the original bottom bracket with a standard ISIS splined tool. The replacement "T30" 30mm ID bottom bracket's Outer Diameter is non-standard, so it comes with its own wrench machined to fit the T30 cups. There's no commercially available socket tools (such as supplied by Bike Hand) to fit this. As to the correct torque, that's a standard min 35 Nm max 50 Nm. A person with average strength giving it a good heave will end up somewhere between 35 and 40 Nm, so it would be at tolerance. There's certainly no danger of overtightening; it would be possible to not get it tight enough though.
Wouldn’t cuttinng the bb shell make it smaller? Doesn’t this mean that you will need to add spacers?
The facing tool cutters remove the clearcoat and paint which brings the BB shell back to the original width of 68 mm (not 73 mm in this case). The cutters can take up to 0.3 mm more of the alloy on either side. That is within an acceptable tolerance-spacers won't be required. Some mechanics use a facing tool with the cutter on just one side, allowing them to continually measure the BB shell with a vernier to ensure they never exceed tolerance. ~Glenn
So is it absolutely necessary to do this? Or can the bb30 cups be installed without the she'll being cut down?
May i knew the name instrument you use?
Excelentes recomendaciones!!!
Using torque wrench as a breaker bar... such a bad idea. What other bad ideas are here??
You don't use torque wrench to loosen the bolts! I suggest reading manual. It stretches out the springs and therefore you need to recalibrate it quicker. That might be fatal for fragile carbon parts you will be working with later...
Thanks for the observation Grzegorz. Let's agree to disagree on the specifics here. This particular wrench covers a range commencing at 28 Nm through to 210 Nm. It is designed for jobs way bigger than any typically encountered in a bicycle workshop, jobs on trucks for example involving M18, M20, M22, M24 bolts. Hence, on that point alone you certainly would not be using it on smaller bolts in the M2 to M6 range that typically involve carbon components and require the use of a smaller 0 Nm - 25 Nm tool (we give an overview and technique guidance on M2-M10 torque wrenches in the 'Integrated Headset' video). If you ever had to break a bolt free in that context, it would only be because it rusted with age, fused to the component body. And even then you would most certainly not use the 0-25 Nm torque wrench to break it free. Note that is a "click" type wrench where a spring is compressed; no "stretching" is involved.
In this workshop this 28-210 torque wrench is used for 1. Reaching tolerance on square taper, splined, cartridge BBs with a lower limit of 35 Nm and upper limit of 50 Nm 2. Reaching tolerance on outboard bearing cups with a similar tolerance spec 3. Reaching tolerance on non-driveside (M8) crankbolts, SRAM for example with a range of 48 Nm to 54 Nm, and square taper cranks. In its first 10 years of use (acquired in 2009) this click-type wrench has completed in excess of 20,000 cycles, with perhaps some 40 instances of being used to move stubborn bolts. It has had periodical recalibration, which I need not have worried about since it always comfortably remained inside the tolerances required for the specific jobs I need it for. It's a "Dr. Micrometer" model, by the way, local Taiwan brand...tough as guts. When I encounter the occasional tough bolt (this is a "backend" assembly shop, not a consumer-facing bike shop) then I crank the torque up to 70 Nm which is more than enough to hold it (except once where my genius buddy from SRAM, Aga, a magician with recalcitrant components lol took the frame away and sorted it quick smart). Remember, this torque wrench does not know that it not being used on a truck chassis to torque a bolt to 150 Nm or higher-the function is the same; the purpose is not. Result? Bolt freed up and life goes on. I would note that a far more demonstrably damaging practice is neglecting to store a torque wrench with the spring still at tension rather than released back to zero, something quite a few owners probably neglect to do.
Anyway, should the reader here be in any way concerned that using their torque wrench in this manner may damage it, then most certainly do not use your torque wrench in this manner. And, of course, never continue to crank a wrench once tolerance has been reached. A variety of ways to break a crank bolt free are covered in the 'Square Taper Bottom Bracket' video, by the way, including the "old seat post" method. Be warned though, me and my gutsy torque wrench are a part of that too. ~Glenn
@@firstcomponents It is desighned to do much larger torques in clocvise direction!!! Any torque in counterclocwise direction is damaging the wrench. Your wrench works only in clocwise direction. Wrenches that operate in both directions are made differently...
@@TheJure123456 The wrench at 1:30 has a switch for direction.
how did you do this whit a carbon frame?
The carbon frame would need an alloy sleeve bonded to the BB shell allowing acceptance of a threaded bottom bracket. This method won’t work with a BB shell set up for press fit.
Just use bb bsa30 for carbon right @firstcomponents?
'a chain that will get a good lube later on'! Please tell me that isn't going anywhere but in the metal recycling.
Also, a bb30 is pressfit so, this isn't a bb30.
I would like to know what kind of morons machine these products. They should make these in a press fit.