Are Games Workshop Products Too EXPENSIVE??
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ม.ค. 2024
- Today we discuss the age old question, are GW products too expensive?
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I think things feel expensive because GW's currency conversion is horrible. The Old World rulebook is set at 70 USD but 42.50 GBP which equals about 54 USD. The company has built production facilities in the states so we shouldn't be gouged because its an import. Combine that with limited run products that create FOMO and only serve to feed the scalpers it feels like the hobby is unnecessarily expensive which is worse in my opinion.
Yeah. From what I recall they set their US prices back when the pound was a lot stronger than the dollar in the 90's and haven't changed them since, regardless of how the two currencies have shifted. The US gets absolutely shafted when it comes to mark-ups. Not as much as the poor Aussies, sure, but at least there you can argue they're on the other side of the world. (Still bull but whatever.) But the US? They literally produce some stuff here!
Since the title is “products” not just miniatures, disappointed you didn’t discuss the cost of the paints on the racks behind you when compared to others. $20 US for a can of spray paint? Cost of texture paint when compared to AK? Now we’re talking too expensive.
I mean, that’s different though. In that case you have cheaper and better alternatives. There are no cheaper but better alternatives to GW models. Especially the newer AOS models. I don’t even really like AOS that much, but I’ll damn sure buy CoS or Nighthaunt models to paint. Very few experienced hobbyists are buying GW’s rattle cans BECAUSE there are better options (at least I hope they aren’t).
I know except for a few colors they do better than everyone else (mournfang brown, Ahriman Blue, Caliban Green, Evil Sunz Yellow), I don’t buy their pots for multiple reasons. The biggest being that they are pots, not droppers)
@@stonehorn4641any official tournament won't allow you to use non-GW minis. Imagine if they demanded (and could somehow enforce) that you only used their paints, too. If it were viable, you know they would
@@MarcRitzMD who cares about official GW tournaments? They are extremely rare events
Its pretty clear cut here in Australia. Gw's competitors do not jack up their prices by 50-100% for australia like GW does, so the price difference here is much wider. Generally I would say infinity is the next most expensive and probably half the price. For old world I was comparing some of the bretonnian cavalry which were $120 for 5 models direct from gw, whereas a set of oathmark cavalry is $60 for 15 models. and since the gw ones are quite old the quality is comparable, so the gw set is 6x the price. 5x if you bought it from reseller.
The enjoyment I get out of it makes it worth it for me, one box set can make many many hours of hobby goodness
I think the initial shock of the box price is the main thing. I think paint price is something that I still find very expensive, not really the models. 7 euro for one contrast paint colour is a lot
Sure if you want to paint an army you'll easily get quite a few paints BUT how many models can you paint with them? It is not as if you would use the equivalent of one bottle on a single mini, or even 10. At least I hope you don't otherwise I dread to see how your minis look like :P
One thing I've never understood, is people complain about the prices, but buy anyway. You don't HAVE to. Paint/spray prices? I mean, buy army painter or anything else or use a whatever primer from home Depot.
Same with models. Buy used. Nobody is forcing you to buy.
You could buy other cans of paint for sure and realize that most of them are utter trash (army painter included) if you have a keen eye on quality. GW spray cans are pricey but they are quality and never disappoint in my experience. And i tried a lot of different sprays.
@@jeancouscous agree! Most of my sprays are GW. I get decent results from army painter , but GW is my main.
you can get an enty level 3D printer for $250, and 2 bottles of resin is $40, its FAR far cheaper to printer better quality and better models, 3D printing isnt hard to learn.
And what are you doing about the fumes and chemical disposal? Not everyone can have a lab in their house.
We were having this same conversation in the 80's, nothing changed but the date. The issue back then was the same as the issue today. If you chase competitive play and you are chasing the meta, this hobby gets expensive right quick. I have always felt that the best part of games like 40k was the lore and approaching it from the narrative play angle. They (GW) did this so successfully with Middle Earth Battle Strategy game proving the concept, I honestly thought all of their games would pivot at that point and the community would follow suit. They do it now with stuff like Crusades, but oddly make these rules inaccessible by separating them from the core rules book.
All I'm going to say is, play Crusades and the game not only gets cheaper and you get more value out of all the things GW does to support the game but your experience won't be spoiled by meta's, over-analysis of the units/game systems and over all just have more fun with what you already own.
Lovin the channel fellas and wish you all the best!
GW is too expensive. I could get a little 2" Ursula Creed model for $45, which needs glue and paint. Or, I could get a Fully articulated, multi-color plastic, snap-together, 5" tall Bandai High Grade Gundam model kit for $20-$25. No glue or paint needed.
This right here. Once I got into gunpla I couldn't even comprehend how I justified miniatures before. I absolutely dreaded building GW kits it was such a chore to cut them out from the thick-ass runners they use, often times losing some of the detail because of the awful positioning they chose on what are now models that were designed to be printed rather than injection molded, then to clean off all the atrocious mold lines which further risks stripping detail off of them because of the way they enjoy having said lines run through densely detailed areas (looking at you, plasma gun coils), only to then have to glue everything together in a way that doesn't end up looking a bit _off_ and finally prime and paint and varnish them. Then I picked up an Entry Grade RX-78-2 and an HGUC Zaku II and I think I actually started laughing while I built the Zaku because I actually enjoyed making it, which was such a stark contrast to the tedium of Warhammer.
Games-Workshop and Warhammer is only cheap if you're totally insular and stuck in the hobby with no perspective outside of it, or if you're disingenuous and comparing plastic toy soldiers to physical activity with actual benefits to your health, fishing that can potentially feed you and your family, hunting which can also potentially feed you and your family, or a fucking car that can get you to your job, or get you to the store to pick up groceries. Even music as a hobby has infinitely more value, because you're not just developing an actual skill, but because there is significantly more potential of you making money off of it than miniatures. Alternatively, someone might insist it's not that expensive if they have a vested financial interest in people continuing to buy those miniatures.
I think games workshop isn't necessarily too expensive. the models are cool looking and fun to paint.
Where Games Workshop gets crazy is army construction and gameplay. 2000 points is a LOT of money to invest. I think a tournament standard of 1250-1500 points is probably a better approach.
My mate has been trying to get me playing AOS again. Looking at the Ironjawz, its £150 for 3 boxes of Gore-Gruntas. That's 9 models! and only 1/4 of a 2000 point list. You gotta be kidding me.
Of course they are too expensive, but they are not far off from every other miniature company. I wish the hobby was more affordable, so that more people could get into it. There are lots of cheap ways for people to get involved in the hobby but those means don't look as exciting as a fully loaded table.
Secondary market for warhammer is interesting to watch. Unless ebay sellers are buying their own auctions, stuff that isnt even painted that well sells for several hundred percent of msrp of kits. Magic cards that are painted arent more valuble than unaltered ones, mostly. Plus plastic doesnt need a temperature and humidity controlled space to make sure your collection isnt trash.
I totally agree, really wonder if the demand is really there
On cost and keeping miniatures - "Games workshop is not coming around to pick up your models" ..... YET ... LOL Glad our group kept our decades worth of stuff minus a few .. 😆😅🤣
Paints and rules are dreadfully overcosted and by far what makes most of the people I know back out from playing, telling them, hey spend 200 bucks for a bunch of minis so we can play the smallest version of the game available (Combat patrol) is already a hard pitch most of the time, but them finding out they have to then spend around 50 usd on the very basics of paint plus brushes, glue etc, especially considering I don't live in a first world country and 200 usd a month is what some people make as minimum wage
I offer them to use my stuff while they buy most things, but it's uncomfortable for them to have to ask for things all the time, and even though we use non gw condoned sources for the rules, the idea of spending 50 usd on some outdated rules is outrageous
I have a feeling that gw could easily slice the prices by 50-70% and enjoy the increased revenue of people who now find it too expensive to get into, or 3d print their models
even a 30% decrease in prices would help them a lot or even just making everything but the physical minis and paint tools free so it's a lot more accessible
since I abandoned GW game mechanics in the early 90s (absolutely garbage), I still collect various model kits from GW.
IMO - they make some of the best models on the market. very useful for ANY other game system.
Buying to make my pile of shame bigger makes me happy while planning to buy it and picking it up. Though it feels have to buy when they release as never seems to go back in stock.
Happened to me this tueaday at a LGS! I saw a new titan with the mace and shield and thought it looked cool! Took it to the front and squeaked when she said 220.00 lmao, i said NEVERMIND 😂
I really hate harping on how expensive GW's stuff is.... but if I was going to, haha, I take issue with prices being so high specifically for 20+ year old sculpts returning to production from games that no longer exist. 3 Old World Tomb King Ushabti have no business being sold for $85USD before taxes, and you're kidding yourself if you think you can justify that cost by them being metal, smaller runs, blah, blah, blah. I'm sitting here in anticipation of how much they are going to try to gouge people for the Orc Boar Boyz when they return... I remember them being like $40 USD for a 4 or 5-pack back in the late 90's, so i expect them to be cost-prohibitive this time around. It's not a coincidence that they are coming back noticeably later than the other Orc models, once some people have committed to the army by sinking money into them through other purchases.
I started player warhammer because it was much cheaper the yugioh where staple cards can be 120 bucks and you need 3 a deck can cost 1000 and be dead in 3 months where with warhammer at least the models last longer in the meta and painting is more fun then just putting cards in a binder
If you have a "forever army" that you get longevity out of and you paint very nicely then no.
Every hobby is expensive like you guys said. I think it is fomo combined with poor budgeting. Better to chip away a little money at a time on expensive models.
I like to paint models if people want to just game with the models they should sell models generically painted in the same colours so every model looks the same sell them cheaper for gamers.
0:01 - yes they are
Compared to what? The fact you can get a Master Grade from Bandai for the same price as a single sprue 28mm tall singular model. GW can Eat my Socks.
build model for 6 hours, then it sits on a shelf never to be played with again
@@daivietGW's constant points changes and discontinuing of models means a lot of my stuff sits on a shelf never to be played with again.
The crusher stampede tyranid list I just put together is 15 models, 2k points, 1200 dollars. That's just one list. The cost in resin or pla is minimal. This is an absolute insanity. If they let us 3d print or kit bash units that would be fine or fair. But they don't.
Who is "they" and how are they not letting you 3d print or kit bash units? It's not like you need GW permission to play with whatever you want.
In gw tournaments and stores they absolutely limit what you can play with
In the way how I see it Games Workshop treats their employees very well, has fair labour times Workshifts cares for retirements, treats everyone in the supply chain well, does not use child labour and is very engaged in their carbon footprint. Also their CEO earns by far less than other companies of similar size and the company is mostly owned by retirement fonds (or in other words old people who invested their savings into stocks)
What I find very odd is that people always complain about child labour, fair trade and ESG etc but when a company finally treats everyone in the chain very well and besides of that gives the fans everything they want, people than complain about the price.
People always want to have it all but expect that it costs nothing. I will never understand that. Have a great day! :)
Love this comment!
There is absolutely a cost to fair labour practices and non-exploitative production. And you are right, people are conditioned in today's market for cheap goods no matter how they are sourced or produced.
Thanks for watching!
Very fair point ! They are made in the UK, not China. People tend to forget that.
In gw tournaments and stores they absolutely limit what you can play with.
I think its worth thinking about the inflated price overtime. A box of ork boyzcost 29$ in 2014 now for basically the same box its much much more. Multiply that over full ranges it ads up. That said, it depends on your enjoyment of the hobby. I dont collect GW much anyone because my own tastes have changed. Tastes do change with time as do prices
It would have a greater appeal if it was cheaper for sure, what most people see is 5 plastic figures for 30+ £
What is that Canadian Starbucks?
nah just Tim Hortons
GW is an inexpensive hobby compared to scuba diving, golf, woodworking, leatherworking, hunting, fishing etc. At the competitive level it is insanely cheap compared to many adult sports. It seems expensive because it has a great appeal to many people that otherwise would never aspire to a hobby out of their financial range. It would be wonderful if everyone that wanted to get in the hobby could do so. Since they sell out a large percentage of their products, I am certain their shareholders are happy, and those are the people pulling the strings.
On the other hand I do think some of their stuff is priced at an insane level. When one of their miniatures cost as much as a high end chisel or other high end woodworking tool, I often balk even if I have the cash to burn.
this is why i got my son a 3d printer, you know how much he cost me last year he spent more than £800 on these little pieces of shit, one day i decided you know what im gonna teach him a life lesson, im teaching him how to use a 3d printer and how to make his own meshes and designs, im so proud of him hes gravitated to it like bees to honey, all i see him do now is draw and spend more time coming up with designs then actualy printing them, and sometimes im in the kitchen and hell just put one on the table and its a giddy feeling, morale of the story is forget 40k get them a printer and teach them how to do it themselves
You know I sell model kits for a living right? Lmao
Appreciate the comment.
We have another video on 3d printing.
TLDR it's a hobby to itself and not for everyone.
Honestly agree with a lot of the points here. I definitely had a competitive mindset when I picked up warhammer but quickly found myself so happy with the hobby aspect that listbuilding/meta-chasing and stuff took a hard back seat to painting/building etc. I definitely feel like it's very reasonable to "get your money's worth" or whatever just through the time spent painting your little guys, even if they never end up seeing the battlefield. Seeing yourself improve in the hobby aspect is also extremely fulfilling.
Wanted to add some input about skirmish games though, I feel like the "it's cheaper" argument does hold some weight (although it could be worded better maybe). I got interested in Warcry because there were just so many models from different AoS armies that I thought looked cool or wanted to paint etc. It is kind of nice to be able to dabble in a bunch of different armies and know that you could use them in a proper game without being on the hook for more than 1-2 boxes in some cases.
They said tge prices will be higher recently by the way.
I leave Games Workshop as fast as I've grew up.
Compared to modern aircraft kits, they give you a lot more for your money compared to GW models.
Great discussion, and congrats on crossing 1k subs!
We did it!
Refreshingly balanced approach to topic, keep preaching!
Of course they are too expensive. They are beyond ridiculous into the absurd. Compare it to anything. Just don't be an idiot and compare cheap plastic to golf. And even golf is cheaper. Other sports such as basketball are literally free.
One thing to remember at looking at nineties prices for you guys is how much stronger the £ was then, making your dollar prices even more. A chaplain blister in 1994 was £3, thats £6 now with inflation - compared to the £25 actual cost. Sure the quality has gone up loads, but in terms of cost of getting into the hobby, the extinction of pocket money costing blister packs is massive for kids coming into it.
I remember sticker shock in the late 80s when the Doombull model cost $8. It took 3 hrs at Harveys to pay for it. Still haven't painted it. 😮
Let me ask you a question. How much should it cost to a play a game of toy soldiers?
I mean it's not scuba diving, golf , performance cars. It's a game of toys and that's all it's ever been. So again I ask how much should it cost to play a game of toy soldiers. Oh and honestly the painting/hobby part is really irrelevant. Since most don't bother to paint figures before they play anyhow. I've been doing this for 40 years and know a handful of people who have fully painted armies.
I think there are a few reasons people feels its expensive:
1. It is if you think of it relative to the material you are getting. Like obviously its more than just plastic. (production, design, etc). But it does sometimes feel bad paying $200 for ~$3 in plastic. I also feel what reinforces that is GW's financial numbers that puts them at a much bigger margin than even the likes of Apple so we can say without a doubt they are aggressively squeezing as much blood from the stone as they can.
2. Their prices increase at 2-3x the rate of inflation. I've been in the hobby for 30 years now and looking back at what I paid then compared to what I pay now for say a squad of guys is wild. A blister pack hero used to be $8, you now pay $45. Now granted, the figs today are larger and more detailed so its not truly an apples to apples comparison but Old World has been quite an eye opener because its the same kits 25 years later that now cost 2-3x more when inflation in that period was only about 1.8x over that same period. I also think this speaks to cost of entry, especially for teens who are the future of the hobby. If teenage me was looking at the hobby today, I'd never be able to get into it because the cost is so high.
3. GW really abuses the good will of its customers by doing a ton of anti-consumer type things designed to make us feel like we have to spend more than we wanted to. A few examples are starter sets with incomplete squads. New and special figs exclusive to boxes that contain a bunch of figs an existing player wouldn't need. Limited and exclusive boxes that contain a few units from two armies so that you either have to split with a friend or essentially buy a bunch of models for an army you don't play. And finally the most egregious one which is the constant and frequent wild swings in game balance making players feel like they need to constantly be adding to their collection to remain relevant.
4. You say the investment is long term, but I don't really agree with that. If I look at my collection spanning 30 years. The vast majority of it isn't really usable still today because GW makes an aggressive consistent push to retire stuff out to promote you buying new stuff. (either by removing it from he game or just giving it rules so bad you'd field it because the "new" thing is just objectively better) Sometimes they even retire stuff that is still being actively sold. (We currently see this with the Deathwing Command Squad which is STILL for sale on the GW website even though we know it is being deleted in the new book. Players need to be so vigilantly aware of what is changes before they make purchases because GW is perfectly happy to sell you a kit that is completely obsolete at full retail price. I can see retiring long OOP stuff from the game, but retiring stuff you are actively selling feels scummy.
Idk, man. 3d printers are actually able to compete with GW on quality, price, and value.
Plastic, metal and casting resin will last decades longer than the resin used in 3d printers. If you dont mind churning your armies its great, but in a decade you are going to be sad.
these things got any resale value?
None. If you're getting into Warhammer for the resale value, you need to talk to a financial advisor.
I’m fine with the prices. Not saying I wouldn’t prefer cheaper, I’m human, but especially I’m just happy to be getting classic, hand sculpted models again.
I enjoy my CoS army, my nids are fun sometimes, but I absolutely adore rank and flank gaming.
I spend tons of hours painting and basing models. Doing tomb kings right now for slow grow league. Im retired military, and my business (fishing charters) is only half the year, so I do a lot of hobbying in the winter. I just rebased and repainted all of my old Dwarfs. I spent about 500 hours or more just painting about 7000 points for the second time in the 30 years I’ve owned it. My armies have paid foe themselves, and im happy to monetarily support the game, even if GW screwed up the launch.
I’m loving these conversations.
Also remember the packaging for a Warhammer product is worth more than the actual contents of the box. This is not conjecture either. It is a fact. I learned this from GW folks and A gentleman that ran , at one time one of the biggest online shops on the Internet.
I always compare my hobbies by dollar per hour basis. Currently the only kits from games workshop that I tend to get any sticker shock from is $70 CDN for 3 infantry sized models.
Unless I absolutely must have those models for a tournament list, then I tend to pass on those specific kits .. until that day where they make it into a spicy list.
Most miniature kits give me more than enough value just from building and painting them.
Yeah I think this is all reasonable with the exception of the commonly ecountered idea that GW was somehow that much better at game design before. Plenty of outside (and inside) accounts of people who really played can tell you they were just as unserious about design then as they are now, and really if anything copped out more in the old days.
YES. End of the video
There are definitely other games that give you better value for your money. Kings of War, for example. You can get a full army for the cost of one GW Combat Patrol. 160 bucks for 15 models vs. 160 bucks for 90 models. Bolt Action is much the same way. 100 dollars for two starter armies. So Warhammer is certainly on the more expensive side of this particular hobby. That said, you're right in that GW models hold their value more. Even a well-painted mini you can possibly get your money back for.
the quality of models kings of war produces is reflected in their prices
I've come a long way when it comes to wargaming "cost". I used to think that miniatures games were way too expensive, thinking about it in terms of money to volume of "stuff". Then I took the plunge into Crisis Protocol which you say can be even more expensive than GW games. Also though, MCP goes on deep sale all the time and that's when I buy. It's served me well and I've gotten a lot of value out of it because I get a box of MCP and take a few hours building it, then priming and painting and then I can use any MCP model in any MCP affiliation, so there's always value there. I'm approaching a personal complete collection for MCP and looking at other games including GW with Kill Team (large scale war games are beyond me for a variety of reasons). When I see a team is $60 for 10ish models, that doesn't seem so bad anymore since I know I'll have hours of time I enjoy before I even get them to the table. The trouble with GW is that they're like Nintendo. They know what they have, and discounts are scarce. You might get 15-20% off, but that's it. For MCP I find new on sprue models for 40-60% off fairly regularly. All it ends up doing is making me research my purchases before I put my money down.
For me it boils down to: If you're smart and patient, anything that seems expensive can be had at a discount. Also, change your mindset from the cost of a physical thing to the value of the whole experience of what's in that box. GW and any wargaming things can be expensive, but there's lots of value there.
"It's too expensive so I'm not going to buy it" is fine. What's annoying is "It's too expensive, so they shouldn't be selling it at that price"