As someone who’s been a lifelong Alice fan and whose special interest is all things Alice, I really do enjoy American McGee’s darker take on Lewis Carroll’s “Alice” books. It’s funny to say that because I genuinely hate when people turn the Alice books, narratives that are so whimsical, fun, and imaginative, into something so twisted and frightening. When it comes to American McGee, I think he’s one of the only creators that have been able to properly adapt the Alice books in a more darker tone with heavy themes whilst still maintaining the whimsical elements that are present in the books. I hate bringing this up, but I’m heartbroken that we might not ever see Alice: Asylum in American McGee’s fullest vision. I would’ve loved to see what would’ve been Alice’s backstory, and everything that was mentioned in the game bible. I know there’s someone currently trying to replicate the vision that was written down, so I’m looking forward to that! Thank you for this video essay!!
“Make you’re survival mean something! Or else we are all doomed!” This game was so hard to play at specific parts. But the reward to acknowledge, accept and move forward was great message to witness. Wish the trilogy could finish.
Theres dialogue in the orphanage section where a group of the kids ask, “has she ever worked? Wont let anyone get too close! Hates being touched! Ever been smacked? Spanked more like!” Which could be taken as them talking about punishment but also working on the streets. Its an early nod to the twist, as well as a luggage trunk under the stairs that has all sorts of name bibs with numbers, the same ones we see in the end with the doll maker putting them around the kids neck. All the little nods in the beginning are very apparent a second playthrough in.
Happy to always see new Alice content being made. Its in my top 3 favorite 'horror' games and I'll never get tired of learning more about the two installments, lets not let this game die even if EA did
Finally! Someone who takes the time to analyze not only the sybolism in the health system, but the way the environment furthers the storytelling of Alice's recovery from repression and psychosis! I havent heard anyone talk about the relevance of when certain enemies appear in the game in relation to what discoveries shes made. Almost the entirety of madness returns gives new context to the characters seen in the original game and what purpose they serve in Alice's mindscape. Tweedledum and Tweedledee having taken on the visages of the asylum doctor's nephews who took pleasure in harming her. Theres implications that in her catatonia, they likely assaulted her as well. It goes to show why they were a part of Hatter's realm with its asylum aesthetic. It breaks my heart that we will never get the trilogies earned conclusion to such a nuanced and passionate depiction of a horrifying reality. The Alice series has never treated its subject material lightly or without respect for the victims of such circumstances and Im sure im not the only one who feels how ironic how such a beloved piece of artwork has been forced into oblivion and inconclusion by the same thing as its subject matter: parasitic capitalized exploitation. Maybe I'm raving like a loon, but perhaps thats why I love the games in the first place.
If theres ever gonna be a live action American McGee Alice tv show, I want Ella Purnell (plays as Lucy in the fallout series) to play as Alice. She has beautiful big eyes that matches well with alices, PLUS her voice is the cherry on top. 💯 (Edit: I didnt realize American mentioned about ella on twitter, this makes me super excited and hoping it'll come true)
Of all the games to get a live action adaption this would be such a fun one! I just hope that if they make it it goes to a team and platform that isn't afraid to lean into the darkness and not away from it.
FINALLY!!! SOMEONE WHO THOROUGHLY NOTICES THE SMALLEST DETAILS IN THIS GAME THAT MANY OTHER TH-camRS GLOSS OVER!!! AND HE LISTENS TO TBM??? GRAYMADS YOU'VE GAINED A NEW SUBSCRIBER!!!
Madness Returns is a very personal game to me, as both an Alice fan since Disneys version and as someone who has trauma and can relate to Alice in her struggles. Wonderland is very homey to me and I've used to retreating back into my imagation as a getaway very much like Alice. McGee's version is so poetic and heavily treads on heavy themes with cautious and in such a positive light (for 2011) that it still amazes me years later. The way he uses Alice and Wonderland as a sandbox to play in and do it with such love and passion for the mental illnesses and themes he portrays in this game is a piece of art. I'm still upset that he can never make the 3rd installment of this game he has put together for years and I hope that maybe EA would finally own up to sell him the rights back OR let him develop the game he and I always wanted since hearing about Asylum.
i relate to alice so much, being someone who also suffers from PTSD. my trauma is from sexual abuse as a teen. and when there was clearly red flags my parents did nothing. Feeling neglected, after a few years i started to feel insane with the multiple mental breakdowns everyday. People would think i'm acting crazy at one point someone suggested a mental hospital. I'll never know who was the man that abused me, as i was intoxicated. 10 years later im still suffering from it. Only now am i getting the help from a therapist. It truly feels like a madding journey when it comes to healing. Slowing having to pick apart at my mental disorder. American Mcgee Truly made a real representation of PTSD with Alice and what's even Better is that him and his family now runs a Plushie business called Plushie Dreadfuls by Mysterious. He helps design they plushies alongside his wife, and they have a mental health plushies, i end up getting the PTSD bunny! I am truly thankful we have a man like him on this crazy planet.
Holy crap! The bed of roses, deflowering analogy legit gave me the goosiest of goosebumps. The fact that it was in plain sight, the thing you'd check on the most throughout the game. Great video analysis on the game, honestly!
American McGee's Alice has such a special place in my heart. I loved the Disney film as a child, and the way McGee builds upon that tale, and explores trauma so intimately really drew me into his world. Alice is such a tragic and strong character, I so wish EA would let him continue the series he created, I would love to see where she goes.
I've seen every video essay about this game that has come my way and this has to be one of my favorites! You analysis is amazing, every detail was spot on! You even metioned so many things not many have said before. Genuinely a love letter to Madness Returns. Forever my favorite videogame ❤
I played this game when it came out and multiple times since, and I have already watched about 4 or 5 story analysis videos. The truth is I am not watching to learn about the game, I'm watching for a breakdown of how your mind works. I feel bad for older generations who cannot appreciate the wisdom and quality of their juniors. I'm from the generation that had to help our parents understand how to operate a VCR before learning ride a bike, which taught us all that being older doesn't mean having a monopoly on insight. Now we get to enjoy the younger folks like yourself appreciate something we know and love through new, bright, fresh eyes. I am almost grateful for the trash media recently, because now you have time to appreciate the stuff I like. 23:30 Fun Fact: Blood letting used to be done by the men who also gave shaves and haircuts, thus they are called "Barbers" for the barbs they used to puncture. The classic red and white spiral barber's pole was to indicate shaving cream and blood. Barbers were highly respected both as a minister of a social male cultural ritual before the invention of safety razors, but also because he literally held your life in his hands, both by barb and by straight razor. Also caterpillar says the queen must always be served, which means that you always need to do right by your own heart. And in the real world when children start growing up they will end up collecting loose teeth. The Doctor also having the black slime leaking from him implies that he also was a victim, and even now he is blinded by his own internal corruption, for he too was once an innocent child; the black slime forming his facial hair, not his head hair indicates his move from childhood to adulthood was corrupted. Noticed this stuff while watching your vid BTW, which is why I value this content, even if I can recite the entire plot. And you didn't mention it but the carpenter and walrus are organized religion, orchestrating a play to consume lives. The carpenter is Judeo-Christian religions and the walrus is Hinduism / Buddhism. This is an older observation based on the books, but still applies. I want a third game where Alice opens her own clinic and dives into other people's broken imaginations to help.
Alice was with me while I was being gr**med, and Alice was with me when I realized how in danger I was. Alice is such a huge integral part of my life that I can't even explain how impactful Americans story was for me. Alice is an exploration in trauma and realization and will always mean the world to me.
@@graymads it seems like no one ever talks abt them I'd love a video on them!!! seen them live multiple times and they been consistently putting out amazing music for like 20 years straight
The Birthday Massacre’s music is one of the few things that scratches the same itch as American Mcgee’s Alice for me. It’s a total pipe dream, but if Alice Asylum ever gets picked up by another studio, it would be amazing if they collaborated on the soundtrack. It’s just so perfect.
Alice's journey in wonderland reminds me of my time in salty springs... me and my wife's boyfriend had many victory royale's there. I miss him dearly. Fantastic video!
0:36 this parade scene from Paprika has a pretty cool song by Susumu Hirasawa (he did the soundtrack) and it always reminded me of another track he made called Double of the Wind which i highly recommend you check out i think it's gorgeous. The translated lyrics are poetic and has one of my all time favorite song lyrics: "the human figure that once visited you in a dream, was the wind bearing your own name" He also made the soundtrack for the Berserk 97 anime which is top tier😫🤌
This is really well told, and I ended up watching the whole hour and thirteen-minute runtime despite already knowing every inch of this game already. Thank you for fueling my absolute fascination with this game series with such articulation and attention to detail 🖤🖤
As a fellow huge fan of this game who also considers it one of their most favorite games of all time, it warms my heart when I see fellow fans remember this beautiful game and continue to make content for and/or about it. I unfortunately missed out on the first game back in the day since I wasn't much of a PC gamer (which sucks because when I learned that it was gonna have a PS2 & Dreamcast port only to be canceled, we console gamers were so robbed LOL) but when I learned about this game seeing the trailer, I made sure to not miss out on it and I was so surprised at how immersed I got into all the game had to offer. Even though it was a budget game, you can tell it was a labor of love and it was so so felt by many of us. You know a game has really made an impact when you continue thinking about it a decade after it came out. I've heard arguments on how this game was hamfisted with it's message but it so wasn't, the allegories it presented with it's symbolism and imagery tying it in with the harsh reality of 18th century Victorian England was very thoughtful, at least imo. Anyway amazing retrospective, it was a blast!
I've got a question; would you consider doing a deep dive into the game bible for Asylum, explaining the conclusion of the story to those who might not have the time or mental fortitude to tackle such a large document? It is, after all, the conclusion to this whole magnificent tale, and I think it deserves to be told. I don't know anyone with your channel size tackle this beast yet. I think it'd be a fitting conclusion, and that American McGee would be happy to see the fans - not EA - reveling in the story he wanted to tell.
@@christina.v. Well, the bible is free for anyone who wants to read it, but it is LONG, and very heavy on the technical side of things. I know a lot of people who would likely never read it, because it's just so much, or so heavy on the needless technical stuff.
@@inkblooded1058 I personally intend to read it, I don’t mind it being lengthy but an analysis like this one for Asylum would be great and would probably make things even more clear!
@@christina.v. Very much same. I love seeing the technical side of things, like weapons and powers. Rage Mode is particularly interesting, narratively speaking.
One of my top favorite games. There's so much to go over within that game I just love it so much. My first tattoo was inspired by the game and is what I used to remind myself to never get into an abusive relationship again.
I hope this game continues to be talked about for years to come. The series changed my little 13 year old brain and I still love it so much. My heartbreaks for American and burns with rage towards EA for destroying another amazing loved game for profit
I'm old so I remember back in the day reading gaymer magazines and seeing an ad for American McGee's Alice, looking back I can see how it was kind of edgy but it seemed really intriguing. I didn't have the money to buy it at the time but the name "American McGee" always stuck with me as being weird with a beard
2:02 the subreddits r/maladaptivedreaming, r/immersivedaydreaming and r/paracosms are proof that for many of us, that ability to create complex inner worlds (and in some cases, the unfortunate tendancy to waste years lost in them) is not an experience limited to children, contrary to popular belief. Also one could argue that most writers that have a single series are essentially putting their paracosms down on paper.
this whole video is so amazingly well made and researched. i dont really have the words to give a better compliment, but it gave me a whole new perspective on madness returns. when i first clicked on this video i honestly thought it was going to be another basic obvious take thats often done with this game but no. The intricacies of trauma, PTSD, abuse and is something i dont see talked about often, ESPECIALLY trying to work through that while living in a harsh environment. anyways good job loo
Amazing video!! I love American McGee’s alice and it’s sequel a lot - I’m really bummed that there won’t be a third instalment bc of ea but the concept art for the third game is so wonderful
I loved the game overall, i just kinda felt like the big reveal of Dr. Bumby was kinda reduced to a Mwahahah-evil-villian-reveals-evil-plans thing. Like, for subject matter like CSA and trafficking, it could have been handled a bit better.
very pleasantly surprised by the level of research on display here I'm not a past viewer so I didn't expect it to be honest a lot of people have called the orphanage and bumby overly cartoonish and exaggerated extreme for the sake of disgust and sensationalism but given the time period and setting its quite realistic that a figure of authority over youth with no parents would do something like this given the living parents of children in these places quite often did the same and that systematic abuse, being born into that line of work, was already happening one thing that I still question, as I feel like it can be validly interpreted either way if whether alice herself was a victim of csa that night I know nothing directly says that and at first glance it seems to just imply bumby closed the door to alice's room when he walked by on his way to light the fire but the dollhouse level sticks out to me it could be all formed from alice's subconscious realization of what happened to lizzie and to the children around her at the orphanage but wonderland is to intrinsically a part of alice and what alice has been through that I can't help but think alice also is a survivor of csa if not at bumby's hands then maybe at the asylum since that level also has the twisted medical segments relating to her medical truama they seem interwoven and entwined and again, far too personal to be something alice merely saw around her as an adult but thats just my own interpretation
I'll always love it when people bring this game back into the public eye💖 It's such a good game on so many layers. It's one of the only games I loved enough to try and beat on Nightmare mode lol. I can't wait to see what the creator comes out with next, whenever he gives that to us lol.
Thank you for such an amazing video! big fan of a first game. never manage to play this part and do not have much time for gaming now, but thanks to you I can dive and experience this twisted fantasy!
Right, I though I've seen many MANY videos on why American McGee's Alice and Madness Returns are far more than just epic horror games, and I though I have seen all the theories and speculations about it, and yet again, you brought another fact with the deflowering life bar (To quote the one that stuck the most). I do really appreciate your take on Madness Returns and I'll now go listen to what you have to say about the first game =). Regarding the "future" of the series, it's all but darkness, as EA refused to greenlight the third game, keep the rights for themselves because... Reasons (Can't be for pure money making, they "sold" the game on steam for quite the cheap price during chinese new year), McGee himself stated that he is done and don't want to talk about Alice anymore, and the fact a TV show could still happen at some point make me very nervous. In this age of Internet insanity, I fear that all the deep messages of the games might be sacrified for soulless entertainment... Oh wait that's the premice of the third game actually.
Remind you that the Dollmaker's lines were carried over to Black Hiver in MoBros Studios' YTP special Skellington's Revenge: The Nightmare Before Christmas Who. The first example of YTPs being in a more story-focused direction, before the days of Schaffrillas' Sharp Talk, or HourOfPoop's Friar's Rubbing Wood: The Fall of Nottingham. Overall, this game belongs in my 'Best' list of 2011 due to it's themes of authority on the most vulnerable. Alice never remembered the traumatic events, and returned to her childhood innocence Wonderland just so they'll be recovered. Alice was able to face the perpetrator of sexual abuse and the same monster who caused her family's downfall. Madness Returns also accurately portrayed Whitechapel, making more sense when you realize it's poverty-stricken state resulted with high crime and prostitution rates. The duology is a must-play, and worthwhile for horror fans alike. It's a shame EA didn't pitch a third installment, but Alice and Madness Returns became cult-classics for all the right reasons.
You have a knack for literary analysis and your style and voice is strong, and your focus is clear, and you’re compelling! Keep it up. As an English nerd myself, I want to suggest that you cut down on the reading of quotes and try highlighting what you’re talking about drawing from the text itself. Also a visual and vocal reference is nice to add.
It's been around 3-4 years since I last tried to play this game. I think I gave up at the floating card castle and abandoned it. I've always loved this game, but my skill issue with controller prevented me from truly enjoying it. I've returned to alice a few days ago, and I'm having an absolute blast. I honestly can't stop playing it
In another comment section I saw a comment comparing dr bumby to sigmund Freud. Alleging that Freud proposed his screwed up theories of child and adult relationships to cater to and excuse his wealthy clients that were the same kind of abuser. In a less direct but still revolting way, selling children into CSA.
This is a great analysis of one of my favorite games And kearned a lot about the context around it especially the medical excerpts quoted Much better than another analysis I saw a while ago that said alice was just a manic pixie dream girl and the sexual stuff was added for shock and surprise
I know it has been over a year since we heard the news about Asylum begin cannceled but I don't know why I have still hope that maybe we can have the third and final game, from what I heard people are still demanding Asylum to become real. For me the games are the first games of the horror genre that I liked... and from what games that can become viral I just know tiktok whould have loved to make edits sounds on the third game, games now become viral because of tiktok and the Alice trilogy whould have been viral heck I got edits in french about the gave AND IT HAD MORE THEN 250K LIKES What I'm saying is people need to scream about Asylum for made having a chance to be made
One very, very important thing that you didn't mention (at least not directly) is that the Red Queen *is* Elizabeth. She's one of the few Wonderland characters that directly refers to a person Alice knows - all the others are a bit more abstract. But the Red Queen, the most important Wonderland character, is also Alice's closest family member. Elizabeth would confide in Alice and trusted her greatly. It's exactly why she's the villain in the first game. What the hell does a 7 year old girl from an academic family in Victorian England know about rape? One ought to remember that Alice has been cut off from the world for 10 years in absolute catatonia. Everything she knows about life when she gets out of the asylum is from back when she was a child - basically nothing (comically irresponsible of the doctors to just let her out like that, but we'll give them the benefit of doubt because they were naive back then). If the Red Queen - the truth, basically - had won, that would be game over for Alice. It wouldn't just be total insanity, she'd probably *die* from the sheer stress of realizing something she cannot hope to comprehend. One other thing is the design of the human characters in the real life sections reveals Alice's sentiments: strangers are pretty ugly, and often grotesque, indicating of her mistrust. Nan Sharpe and Radcliffe are far less grotesque - Alice might not consider them particularly admirable, but she trusts them enough. Bumby, who Alice mistakenly believes is helping her, looks normal - and so does Dr. Wilson who handled her in the asylum (and was basically the only person that actually and genuinely wanted to help her). The cops are also less deformed and seem to have sympathy for Alice. And then you have Pris Witless, whom Alice clearly despises, as she's so obscenely ugly and caricatured that it makes literally everyone else look pretty normal.
Dude… ngl the ending of your video kind of got me messed up. I had no idea that Alice was based off of a real girl… and said girl was abused/exploited by the author himself… like bro I feel so icky and conflicted. wth man…
I urge you to do outside research on the subject, as I believe the information in this video was presented with a bit too much conviction. The majority of the things discussed in this video are largely speculation. Some of it is true, but the situation is a bit more complicated than it's presented. Of course, I'm not defending him or his alleged actions, but some outside research is surely needed.
I'm excited for the next game think the guy is building funding to get the rights off ea via his shop. Would love to see more of this universe. I have such a deep love of this game I'm getting tattoos of the characters.
bro, cool content, but pay attention to the way youre pronouncing the words, and DO NOT read three paragraphs in a single sitting mid video, thats guaranteed to lose a few people, edit.
Normally I'm not that interested in these lore deep dives because everything feels like too much of a reach. I can never really buy into the idea that most of the subtle things are intentional in any way. American McGee is an interesting character though. Madness Returns is one of the rare examples of art that can't and shouldn't be separated from the artist. The more you know about American's real life, the more sense the game makes. It's blatantly apparent how truly personal the game is for him. It may have the EA logo, but it's the opposite of a corporate product. I fully believe that he would have put just as much work into the game even if he knew it would sell zero copies; it's a prime example of a passion project that he made for himself at least as much as he made it for the audience.
The allegory of red roses as the life bar and deflowering blew my mind. I love that this game has so many things to dissect afterwards.
And don't forget on the last rose you can use hysteria which sucks away the colors except for white and red and Alice becomes enraged
@@Flaremc26 Now PewDiePie yelling "I'M ON MY PERIOD!" while playing this game makes more sense.
@cpt.mcn00b36 this is SUCH a powerful throwback to a distant past omg
who be up madnessing they return
Who up Cheshiring they cat
We out here🤝
Who up madding they hatter?
Who up graying they mads
Me af nilegod777 😩😩😩
the orphanage segment is just an england simulator
As someone who’s been a lifelong Alice fan and whose special interest is all things Alice, I really do enjoy American McGee’s darker take on Lewis Carroll’s “Alice” books. It’s funny to say that because I genuinely hate when people turn the Alice books, narratives that are so whimsical, fun, and imaginative, into something so twisted and frightening. When it comes to American McGee, I think he’s one of the only creators that have been able to properly adapt the Alice books in a more darker tone with heavy themes whilst still maintaining the whimsical elements that are present in the books. I hate bringing this up, but I’m heartbroken that we might not ever see Alice: Asylum in American McGee’s fullest vision. I would’ve loved to see what would’ve been Alice’s backstory, and everything that was mentioned in the game bible. I know there’s someone currently trying to replicate the vision that was written down, so I’m looking forward to that! Thank you for this video essay!!
“Make you’re survival mean something! Or else we are all doomed!”
This game was so hard to play at specific parts. But the reward to acknowledge, accept and move forward was great message to witness.
Wish the trilogy could finish.
Theres dialogue in the orphanage section where a group of the kids ask, “has she ever worked? Wont let anyone get too close! Hates being touched! Ever been smacked? Spanked more like!” Which could be taken as them talking about punishment but also working on the streets. Its an early nod to the twist, as well as a luggage trunk under the stairs that has all sorts of name bibs with numbers, the same ones we see in the end with the doll maker putting them around the kids neck. All the little nods in the beginning are very apparent a second playthrough in.
Happy to always see new Alice content being made. Its in my top 3 favorite 'horror' games and I'll never get tired of learning more about the two installments, lets not let this game die even if EA did
Amen
Madness returns will always be my favorite game of all time
Finally! Someone who takes the time to analyze not only the sybolism in the health system, but the way the environment furthers the storytelling of Alice's recovery from repression and psychosis! I havent heard anyone talk about the relevance of when certain enemies appear in the game in relation to what discoveries shes made.
Almost the entirety of madness returns gives new context to the characters seen in the original game and what purpose they serve in Alice's mindscape. Tweedledum and Tweedledee having taken on the visages of the asylum doctor's nephews who took pleasure in harming her. Theres implications that in her catatonia, they likely assaulted her as well. It goes to show why they were a part of Hatter's realm with its asylum aesthetic.
It breaks my heart that we will never get the trilogies earned conclusion to such a nuanced and passionate depiction of a horrifying reality. The Alice series has never treated its subject material lightly or without respect for the victims of such circumstances and Im sure im not the only one who feels how ironic how such a beloved piece of artwork has been forced into oblivion and inconclusion by the same thing as its subject matter: parasitic capitalized exploitation.
Maybe I'm raving like a loon, but perhaps thats why I love the games in the first place.
If theres ever gonna be a live action American McGee Alice tv show, I want Ella Purnell (plays as Lucy in the fallout series) to play as Alice. She has beautiful big eyes that matches well with alices, PLUS her voice is the cherry on top. 💯 (Edit: I didnt realize American mentioned about ella on twitter, this makes me super excited and hoping it'll come true)
Of all the games to get a live action adaption this would be such a fun one! I just hope that if they make it it goes to a team and platform that isn't afraid to lean into the darkness and not away from it.
FINALLY!!! SOMEONE WHO THOROUGHLY NOTICES THE SMALLEST DETAILS IN THIS GAME THAT MANY OTHER TH-camRS GLOSS OVER!!! AND HE LISTENS TO TBM??? GRAYMADS YOU'VE GAINED A NEW SUBSCRIBER!!!
"Few Find their way,
Some Don't even Want to"
Will you Cover The Designer's Bible For Alice Asylum?
Yes, please do. I've provided links in my comment.
I love seeing the unhinged comments next to the ones genuinely discussing the game
Madness Returns is a very personal game to me, as both an Alice fan since Disneys version and as someone who has trauma and can relate to Alice in her struggles. Wonderland is very homey to me and I've used to retreating back into my imagation as a getaway very much like Alice. McGee's version is so poetic and heavily treads on heavy themes with cautious and in such a positive light (for 2011) that it still amazes me years later. The way he uses Alice and Wonderland as a sandbox to play in and do it with such love and passion for the mental illnesses and themes he portrays in this game is a piece of art. I'm still upset that he can never make the 3rd installment of this game he has put together for years and I hope that maybe EA would finally own up to sell him the rights back OR let him develop the game he and I always wanted since hearing about Asylum.
i relate to alice so much, being someone who also suffers from PTSD. my trauma is from sexual abuse as a teen. and when there was clearly red flags my parents did nothing. Feeling neglected, after a few years i started to feel insane with the multiple mental breakdowns everyday. People would think i'm acting crazy at one point someone suggested a mental hospital. I'll never know who was the man that abused me, as i was intoxicated. 10 years later im still suffering from it. Only now am i getting the help from a therapist. It truly feels like a madding journey when it comes to healing. Slowing having to pick apart at my mental disorder. American Mcgee Truly made a real representation of PTSD with Alice and what's even Better is that him and his family now runs a Plushie business called Plushie Dreadfuls by Mysterious. He helps design they plushies alongside his wife, and they have a mental health plushies, i end up getting the PTSD bunny! I am truly thankful we have a man like him on this crazy planet.
This game was so underrated. Great analysis of the whole story. I love how you compared real life examples to the game.
Holy crap! The bed of roses, deflowering analogy legit gave me the goosiest of goosebumps. The fact that it was in plain sight, the thing you'd check on the most throughout the game. Great video analysis on the game, honestly!
One of my favorite games. I wish Asylum was made but its in prison unfortunately by EA
American McGee's Alice has such a special place in my heart. I loved the Disney film as a child, and the way McGee builds upon that tale, and explores trauma so intimately really drew me into his world. Alice is such a tragic and strong character, I so wish EA would let him continue the series he created, I would love to see where she goes.
I've seen every video essay about this game that has come my way and this has to be one of my favorites! You analysis is amazing, every detail was spot on! You even metioned so many things not many have said before. Genuinely a love letter to Madness Returns. Forever my favorite videogame ❤
I love Madness Returns, and wanted to give it its flowers.
@@graymads And you did! Well done ☺
I played this game when it came out and multiple times since, and I have already watched about 4 or 5 story analysis videos. The truth is I am not watching to learn about the game, I'm watching for a breakdown of how your mind works. I feel bad for older generations who cannot appreciate the wisdom and quality of their juniors. I'm from the generation that had to help our parents understand how to operate a VCR before learning ride a bike, which taught us all that being older doesn't mean having a monopoly on insight. Now we get to enjoy the younger folks like yourself appreciate something we know and love through new, bright, fresh eyes.
I am almost grateful for the trash media recently, because now you have time to appreciate the stuff I like.
23:30 Fun Fact: Blood letting used to be done by the men who also gave shaves and haircuts, thus they are called "Barbers" for the barbs they used to puncture. The classic red and white spiral barber's pole was to indicate shaving cream and blood. Barbers were highly respected both as a minister of a social male cultural ritual before the invention of safety razors, but also because he literally held your life in his hands, both by barb and by straight razor.
Also caterpillar says the queen must always be served, which means that you always need to do right by your own heart. And in the real world when children start growing up they will end up collecting loose teeth. The Doctor also having the black slime leaking from him implies that he also was a victim, and even now he is blinded by his own internal corruption, for he too was once an innocent child; the black slime forming his facial hair, not his head hair indicates his move from childhood to adulthood was corrupted. Noticed this stuff while watching your vid BTW, which is why I value this content, even if I can recite the entire plot.
And you didn't mention it but the carpenter and walrus are organized religion, orchestrating a play to consume lives. The carpenter is Judeo-Christian religions and the walrus is Hinduism / Buddhism. This is an older observation based on the books, but still applies.
I want a third game where Alice opens her own clinic and dives into other people's broken imaginations to help.
Alice was with me while I was being gr**med, and Alice was with me when I realized how in danger I was. Alice is such a huge integral part of my life that I can't even explain how impactful Americans story was for me. Alice is an exploration in trauma and realization and will always mean the world to me.
Rest in Peace, Lewis Carroll, you might love The Birthday Massacre.
They have been a personal favorite since I was 14.
@@graymads it seems like no one ever talks abt them I'd love a video on them!!! seen them live multiple times and they been consistently putting out amazing music for like 20 years straight
The Birthday Massacre’s music is one of the few things that scratches the same itch as American Mcgee’s Alice for me. It’s a total pipe dream, but if Alice Asylum ever gets picked up by another studio, it would be amazing if they collaborated on the soundtrack. It’s just so perfect.
@@graymadsI love the artist, so you're not alone.
Wasn't Lewis Carroll a perv who preyed on the real Alice?
finally a good video essay about my favorite game ever, reddit humor but it is what it is
Alice's journey in wonderland reminds me of my time in salty springs... me and my wife's boyfriend had many victory royale's there. I miss him dearly. Fantastic video!
Very penthouse, such freaked
0:36 this parade scene from Paprika has a pretty cool song by Susumu Hirasawa (he did the soundtrack) and it always reminded me of another track he made called Double of the Wind which i highly recommend you check out i think it's gorgeous. The translated lyrics are poetic and has one of my all time favorite song lyrics:
"the human figure that once visited you in a dream, was the wind bearing your own name"
He also made the soundtrack for the Berserk 97 anime which is top tier😫🤌
This is really well told, and I ended up watching the whole hour and thirteen-minute runtime despite already knowing every inch of this game already. Thank you for fueling my absolute fascination with this game series with such articulation and attention to detail 🖤🖤
As a fellow huge fan of this game who also considers it one of their most favorite games of all time, it warms my heart when I see fellow fans remember this beautiful game and continue to make content for and/or about it. I unfortunately missed out on the first game back in the day since I wasn't much of a PC gamer (which sucks because when I learned that it was gonna have a PS2 & Dreamcast port only to be canceled, we console gamers were so robbed LOL) but when I learned about this game seeing the trailer, I made sure to not miss out on it and I was so surprised at how immersed I got into all the game had to offer. Even though it was a budget game, you can tell it was a labor of love and it was so so felt by many of us. You know a game has really made an impact when you continue thinking about it a decade after it came out.
I've heard arguments on how this game was hamfisted with it's message but it so wasn't, the allegories it presented with it's symbolism and imagery tying it in with the harsh reality of 18th century Victorian England was very thoughtful, at least imo.
Anyway amazing retrospective, it was a blast!
This video is SO well done omg! I’ve absolutely loved this game for so long and this vid dove so well into it!!
Thank you so much!
Great video, and a truly amazing game and series. It's a downright shame Alice: Asylum was cancelled.
Agreed
This game will always hold a golden thrown of its own in my heart. I’m devastated we were robbed of the potential experience of a 3rd game.
I rly love your editing and your aesthetic !! Thanks for covering this masterpiece also
I've got a question; would you consider doing a deep dive into the game bible for Asylum, explaining the conclusion of the story to those who might not have the time or mental fortitude to tackle such a large document? It is, after all, the conclusion to this whole magnificent tale, and I think it deserves to be told. I don't know anyone with your channel size tackle this beast yet. I think it'd be a fitting conclusion, and that American McGee would be happy to see the fans - not EA - reveling in the story he wanted to tell.
I'd love to see that too! The fact that EA "killed" Alice doesn't mean the rest of her story can't be told
@@christina.v. Well, the bible is free for anyone who wants to read it, but it is LONG, and very heavy on the technical side of things. I know a lot of people who would likely never read it, because it's just so much, or so heavy on the needless technical stuff.
@@inkblooded1058 I personally intend to read it, I don’t mind it being lengthy but an analysis like this one for Asylum would be great and would probably make things even more clear!
@@christina.v. Very much same. I love seeing the technical side of things, like weapons and powers. Rage Mode is particularly interesting, narratively speaking.
One of my top favorite games. There's so much to go over within that game I just love it so much. My first tattoo was inspired by the game and is what I used to remind myself to never get into an abusive relationship again.
I hope this game continues to be talked about for years to come. The series changed my little 13 year old brain and I still love it so much. My heartbreaks for American and burns with rage towards EA for destroying another amazing loved game for profit
Please please please think about making a video about Asylum, this one was so detailed and I loved it!
I subbed to this channel for the American McGee's Alice video. Your videos never fail to deliver.
Bless
I'm old so I remember back in the day reading gaymer magazines and seeing an ad for American McGee's Alice, looking back I can see how it was kind of edgy but it seemed really intriguing. I didn't have the money to buy it at the time but the name "American McGee" always stuck with me as being weird with a beard
*I should clarify that the advertisement I saw was edgy, can't comment on the game being so since I haven't played it
@cloudbloom I bought the disc last year and played it.
It's fun, but dark.
Not as dark as Madness Returns of course, but still dark.
Amazing job with this analysis!
I love how deep it is, how many details are included
2:02 the subreddits r/maladaptivedreaming, r/immersivedaydreaming and r/paracosms are proof that for many of us, that ability to create complex inner worlds (and in some cases, the unfortunate tendancy to waste years lost in them) is not an experience limited to children, contrary to popular belief.
Also one could argue that most writers that have a single series are essentially putting their paracosms down on paper.
this whole video is so amazingly well made and researched. i dont really have the words to give a better compliment, but it gave me a whole new perspective on madness returns. when i first clicked on this video i honestly thought it was going to be another basic obvious take thats often done with this game but no. The intricacies of trauma, PTSD, abuse and is something i dont see talked about often, ESPECIALLY trying to work through that while living in a harsh environment. anyways good job loo
GRAYMADS YOURE A GENIUS!!
Bless you
Amazing video!! I love American McGee’s alice and it’s sequel a lot - I’m really bummed that there won’t be a third instalment bc of ea but the concept art for the third game is so wonderful
this video got me feeling 𝓯𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓴𝔂 about alice. another graymads upload to quench the thirst of the masses once again
😏
i love this game so much but never got the time to finish it... this will be such a fun watch
I loved the game overall, i just kinda felt like the big reveal of Dr. Bumby was kinda reduced to a Mwahahah-evil-villian-reveals-evil-plans thing. Like, for subject matter like CSA and trafficking, it could have been handled a bit better.
very pleasantly surprised by the level of research on display here
I'm not a past viewer so I didn't expect it to be honest
a lot of people have called the orphanage and bumby overly cartoonish and exaggerated
extreme for the sake of disgust and sensationalism
but given the time period and setting its quite realistic that a figure of authority over youth with no parents would do something like this
given the living parents of children in these places quite often did the same
and that systematic abuse, being born into that line of work, was already happening
one thing that I still question, as I feel like it can be validly interpreted either way
if whether alice herself was a victim of csa that night
I know nothing directly says that
and at first glance it seems to just imply bumby closed the door to alice's room when he walked by on his way to light the fire
but the dollhouse level sticks out to me
it could be all formed from alice's subconscious realization of what happened to lizzie and to the children around her at the orphanage
but wonderland is to intrinsically a part of alice and what alice has been through that I can't help but think alice also is a survivor of csa
if not at bumby's hands then maybe at the asylum
since that level also has the twisted medical segments relating to her medical truama
they seem interwoven and entwined
and again, far too personal to be something alice merely saw around her as an adult
but thats just my own interpretation
The flowers are an interesting idea, I wonder if that was intentional or not....
Alice Madness Return is so underrated
Excellent summary. This game, along with a few others like Majora’s Mask, is one of my favorite pieces of art.
I wonder what Mark Fisher would have to say about this?
Not now mom, I'm watching Graymads
Amazing video. I loved playing this game but never got to finish it. Keep up the great work!
Thanks a ton!
@@graymads ofc!
im using this video as research for my university dissertation on madness returns and its psychological aspects, thank you so much :)
I'll always love it when people bring this game back into the public eye💖 It's such a good game on so many layers. It's one of the only games I loved enough to try and beat on Nightmare mode lol. I can't wait to see what the creator comes out with next, whenever he gives that to us lol.
RIP Alice, you would have loved SSRIs
You finally made it! Thank gyatt
Thank you for such an amazing video! big fan of a first game. never manage to play this part and do not have much time for gaming now, but thanks to you I can dive and experience this twisted fantasy!
Right, I though I've seen many MANY videos on why American McGee's Alice and Madness Returns are far more than just epic horror games, and I though I have seen all the theories and speculations about it, and yet again, you brought another fact with the deflowering life bar (To quote the one that stuck the most).
I do really appreciate your take on Madness Returns and I'll now go listen to what you have to say about the first game =).
Regarding the "future" of the series, it's all but darkness, as EA refused to greenlight the third game, keep the rights for themselves because... Reasons (Can't be for pure money making, they "sold" the game on steam for quite the cheap price during chinese new year), McGee himself stated that he is done and don't want to talk about Alice anymore, and the fact a TV show could still happen at some point make me very nervous. In this age of Internet insanity, I fear that all the deep messages of the games might be sacrified for soulless entertainment... Oh wait that's the premice of the third game actually.
I loved American Mcgee's Alice back in the day. Never even knew they made a sequel.
This was a really good analysis and breakdown. Very enjoyable.
sad that we'll never see an Alice sequel cuz of EA being EA
YESSSSSSS I LOVE THIS GAME!!!! I’m so happy to see people making new content for it :D
Madness returns is and will always be one of my favorite games.
I got every achievement i could get in this game. I bought the outfit and weapons packs. I love this game so much.
i remember my dad got me this game bc it was one of the cheap ones at kmart and it ended up being one of the most fire games i’ve ever played
Hey Graymads and people, can you tell me the name of the music okaying at 6:56 to 7:41? thanks
Desperately seeking an answer. I’m hooked on this part.
Please Graymads, I need this one
sounds like an extremely slow version of Alice by Pogo
@@taurynnical
Pogo - Alice (slowed) Spearlight
thank you fuckin hero !
Thank you for the video.
I love this game with all my heart.
Besides the Disney animated film this is by far one of my favorite versions of Alice in wonderland
Remind you that the Dollmaker's lines were carried over to Black Hiver in MoBros Studios' YTP special Skellington's Revenge: The Nightmare Before Christmas Who. The first example of YTPs being in a more story-focused direction, before the days of Schaffrillas' Sharp Talk, or HourOfPoop's Friar's Rubbing Wood: The Fall of Nottingham. Overall, this game belongs in my 'Best' list of 2011 due to it's themes of authority on the most vulnerable. Alice never remembered the traumatic events, and returned to her childhood innocence Wonderland just so they'll be recovered. Alice was able to face the perpetrator of sexual abuse and the same monster who caused her family's downfall. Madness Returns also accurately portrayed Whitechapel, making more sense when you realize it's poverty-stricken state resulted with high crime and prostitution rates. The duology is a must-play, and worthwhile for horror fans alike. It's a shame EA didn't pitch a third installment, but Alice and Madness Returns became cult-classics for all the right reasons.
You have a knack for literary analysis and your style and voice is strong, and your focus is clear, and you’re compelling! Keep it up. As an English nerd myself, I want to suggest that you cut down on the reading of quotes and try highlighting what you’re talking about drawing from the text itself. Also a visual and vocal reference is nice to add.
I'm a simple lady, sees American McGee I click.
Petition for a Pierce The Veil deep dive😭
yess
Yes
First video of yours I have seen. Pretty great Ill have to go through the rest of your catalog. Youve earned a like and sub from me.
It's been around 3-4 years since I last tried to play this game. I think I gave up at the floating card castle and abandoned it. I've always loved this game, but my skill issue with controller prevented me from truly enjoying it.
I've returned to alice a few days ago, and I'm having an absolute blast. I honestly can't stop playing it
Bro! If you made a video on the Design bible that would be a perfect way to get the story through to a lot of people. Pls don’t let this game die 🙏
8:39 PERSONA 2 SPOTTED GRAHHHHH FUCK THIS ONE TATSUYA IN PARTICULAR
In another comment section I saw a comment comparing dr bumby to sigmund Freud. Alleging that Freud proposed his screwed up theories of child and adult relationships to cater to and excuse his wealthy clients that were the same kind of abuser. In a less direct but still revolting way, selling children into CSA.
This is a great analysis of one of my favorite games
And kearned a lot about the context around it especially the medical excerpts quoted
Much better than another analysis I saw a while ago that said alice was just a manic pixie dream girl and the sexual stuff was added for shock and surprise
I know it has been over a year since we heard the news about Asylum begin cannceled but I don't know why I have still hope that maybe we can have the third and final game, from what I heard people are still demanding Asylum to become real. For me the games are the first games of the horror genre that I liked... and from what games that can become viral I just know tiktok whould have loved to make edits sounds on the third game, games now become viral because of tiktok and the Alice trilogy whould have been viral heck I got edits in french about the gave AND IT HAD MORE THEN 250K LIKES
What I'm saying is people need to scream about Asylum for made having a chance to be made
One very, very important thing that you didn't mention (at least not directly) is that the Red Queen *is* Elizabeth. She's one of the few Wonderland characters that directly refers to a person Alice knows - all the others are a bit more abstract. But the Red Queen, the most important Wonderland character, is also Alice's closest family member. Elizabeth would confide in Alice and trusted her greatly.
It's exactly why she's the villain in the first game. What the hell does a 7 year old girl from an academic family in Victorian England know about rape? One ought to remember that Alice has been cut off from the world for 10 years in absolute catatonia. Everything she knows about life when she gets out of the asylum is from back when she was a child - basically nothing (comically irresponsible of the doctors to just let her out like that, but we'll give them the benefit of doubt because they were naive back then). If the Red Queen - the truth, basically - had won, that would be game over for Alice. It wouldn't just be total insanity, she'd probably *die* from the sheer stress of realizing something she cannot hope to comprehend.
One other thing is the design of the human characters in the real life sections reveals Alice's sentiments: strangers are pretty ugly, and often grotesque, indicating of her mistrust. Nan Sharpe and Radcliffe are far less grotesque - Alice might not consider them particularly admirable, but she trusts them enough. Bumby, who Alice mistakenly believes is helping her, looks normal - and so does Dr. Wilson who handled her in the asylum (and was basically the only person that actually and genuinely wanted to help her). The cops are also less deformed and seem to have sympathy for Alice. And then you have Pris Witless, whom Alice clearly despises, as she's so obscenely ugly and caricatured that it makes literally everyone else look pretty normal.
I haven't heard anyone mention the LSD dream emulator in so long bro
Love this horror game
I loved this game..you should check out Scratches or Gabriel Knight
whats the song on 6:55?
I still think there's more depth hidden in the game that will be found over the time.
I want a sequel 😢😢😢
If the queen of hearts is younger Alice, then why does she call the queen Lizzy? Her sisters name.
.....bitvh.....are u playing the diamond instrumental in the background!!?!
ok this is bothering me to no end, what is the song at 6:55?
It’s “Alice “ by pogo!
This one’s slowed down though the original is a lot happier since it does use actual movie clips of the Disney movie
@@fishcarpet9026 thank you
could you talk about the primitive radio gods please, their really, really overlooked… please…
Please for the love of god what's the song being played on the intro ?
Dude… ngl the ending of your video kind of got me messed up. I had no idea that Alice was based off of a real girl… and said girl was abused/exploited by the author himself… like bro I feel so icky and conflicted. wth man…
I urge you to do outside research on the subject, as I believe the information in this video was presented with a bit too much conviction. The majority of the things discussed in this video are largely speculation. Some of it is true, but the situation is a bit more complicated than it's presented. Of course, I'm not defending him or his alleged actions, but some outside research is surely needed.
I'm excited for the next game think the guy is building funding to get the rights off ea via his shop. Would love to see more of this universe. I have such a deep love of this game I'm getting tattoos of the characters.
you have more info on that ? or a link ?
How do I install this game for free on pc ?
hell yeah brother
Another graymadness to sink my teeth into
Maybe the real best anime was the McGee fanfic we played along the way...
*cracks knuckle as Unravel plays*
Dieses Outro 😂😂😂
bro, cool content, but pay attention to the way youre pronouncing the words, and DO NOT read three paragraphs in a single sitting mid video, thats guaranteed to lose a few people, edit.
Those three paragraphs talk about the evil that goes on about the game and world. Shame, what a shame.
Those three paragraphs talk about what is happening in the game,and the world. Shame,shame on you.
Normally I'm not that interested in these lore deep dives because everything feels like too much of a reach. I can never really buy into the idea that most of the subtle things are intentional in any way.
American McGee is an interesting character though. Madness Returns is one of the rare examples of art that can't and shouldn't be separated from the artist.
The more you know about American's real life, the more sense the game makes. It's blatantly apparent how truly personal the game is for him. It may have the EA logo, but it's the opposite of a corporate product. I fully believe that he would have put just as much work into the game even if he knew it would sell zero copies; it's a prime example of a passion project that he made for himself at least as much as he made it for the audience.