all cults-I don't understand how God could be 3 and 1, no matter how it can be explained to me. all atheists-I don't understand how God could allow XYZ, no matter how it can be explained to me. ppl in hell-I don't understand why I'm here, no matter how it can be explained to me.
When muslims say "the trinity was invented", I'd simply ask them why? Like seriously, why would one invent something as confusing as the trinity to convince people to follow their religion? You wouldn't want to convince someone by inventing something confusing, you'd make it simple to understand. It doesn't make sense strategically. This whole "inventing stuff" seems to fit much more with islam, where simply telling people who do not understand the trinity that "god is one" is far more effective.
I'm not saying I think this is true, but one argument in favour of the "trinity was invented" idea is: Maybe the idea of the trinity was invented to try to make all the various books of the Bible, which were written by different people at different times, seem like they fit together? But idk, I'm not a Bible scholar or anything.
Not even 100%, fully human and fully God because you can still go above 100%, 101%, 102%… Referring to God, language and humanity is indescribable to the God of Abraham. More like the toppest version of infinity.
God and human have opposing values, like: Black vs White, Left vs Right, and so the Creator vs Creature. You can't give 100% value to anything when it still has 1% the opposing values, so it would be more unreasonable if the opposite value is 100% either.
@@joshuaparsons887 The problem of evil is based on the idea that someone who is morally good would not allow evil to happen, as long as it is preventable. So objections to it usually focus on how evil was necessary. Unfortunately, because of the doctrine of the New Earth, it’s clear that God could have easily made a perfect world. The problem arises because Israelites, Jews, and Christians have had different concepts of God. Since God can do anything, they had total freedom within the constraints of their own understanding of Him. But if we try to mash all of those ideas together, it’s inconsistent.
@@joshuaparsons887 Because that’s a cop out and contradicts the doctrine of the New Earth. If God did have a good reason for allowing evil, He wouldn’t attempt to destroy it and replace Earth with a perfect world.
This is why I like how The Chosen brought up this issue a bit in Season One, with Nicodemus and Schmuel. Nicodemus was disagreeing with Schmuel and said that we can't just put God into a box of our own making. There are things about God that we will never understand or comprehend.
@@robertortiz-wilson1588 I can't wait for Season 5. Especially when they get into Jerusalem. I was at ChosenCon, and I'm not going to spoil anything, but all I'll say is that there definitely was a perk being there in person.
God is not the author of confusion. He gives wisdom to those who seek wisdom. He says who he is in scripture and never claims to be 3 persons, he always says he is ONE. Jesus is the only God.
Physicist/mathematician here. At 0:47 is essentially an algebraic statement. This is the nature of algebra you're describing. It's also the language of symmetry and symmetry transformations which is foundational to all of physics. Think in terms of Noether's theorem. If there is a symmetry, then there is a conserved quantity. As you transform between the elements of the symmetry, the essence of God is conserved. This is precisely to be one unity with distinct parts. I also think it's the best way to understand John 17:21.
Excellent point, however, unlike anything that we know, God is in three that are different, yet each one of Them is only one God, not parts of God, since being part of something means being a fraction of it, but when the Bible refers to the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit separately, it's always said "God", as if speaking of the same, yet they're treated as independent but at the same time as the same entity. It's quite hard to understand, but hey, that's what one would expect from infinity, from God Almighty.
@@bizarrealtispinax2747 I constantly hear that the trinity is unique to Christianity but I have yet to hear a good argument for this. From what I've studied so far, the idea of a triune god or triad was explicitly found in greco-roman pantheons (Jupiter, Juno, and Minerva / Zeus, Hera, and Athena). The same attributes that people apply to the trinity is consistent with how those pagans looked at their trinities. Equal essence, authority, three persons in one godhead, each worshiped equally etc. It's also common among even older cultures like Assyria, Babylon, and India.
@@quite3560 There's no real evidence to those so called "trinities". There's a difference between the Holy Trinity, which are three persons and one God, none is more God than the other, all three are equal and independent, but are one God alone, a compound unit, whereas the groupings you're talking about are different. I.e. there's the Ennead in the ancient Egyptian culture, which is a council of nine gods, I think Thoth and Osiris were included, I don't remember the rest. Same goes with pantheons in Greek and Roman mythologies, and other groups within the same religions. I also recall another group of eight Egyptian gods formed by frog and fish gods and goddesses, but I can't remember their names. Anyways, there's absolutely nothing that compares to what the Bible shows about the Trinity, and some stories that reassemble such concept as well as those to the story of Jesus, only began to appear after the New Covenant was written. Blessings.
People who say the Trinity isn't make sense because hard to understand was just basically saying we can 100% understand God's nature and power, which telling our mind is same level or equal with God's mind
This baffles me, that some people are determined to confine our Creator to the physical limitations He used for man. The one true Elohim Creator God YHVH obviously far exceeds our form and nature.
It’s not necessarily that we are trying to understand 100% of God’s nature, however God does not confuse in his revelation and reveals himself in every instance as being one person. Jesus is God, that one man who is 100% man and 100% God manifest in the flesh.
Another response to the "God uses singular pronouns" argument is that God also uses plural pronouns: eg. Gen 1:24 Let us make man in our image, Gen 11:7 Let us go down an confuse their language
Muslims will argue against this by saying that it is the "plural of majesty." If you hear this objection, inform them that there is no plural of majesty in Hebrew grammar at the time Genesis and whatnot were written. It's a tired old argument that Anthony Rogers has addressed over on his channel.
I really don't like this argument because the Divine Council theology makes much more sense imo. For people interested, you can look this up using 'The Unseen Realm' by Michael Heiser
@@futfan9092 I do still like it. "Let us make man in OUR image..." whose image are you made in? God's? Angels? The council's? The Bible answers: "In the image of God, he created them"
@@redschannel6527 That’s interpreting the verse in a modern Christian context rather than understanding what the authors originally intended. The Israelites were originally polytheistic, but as God became more and more exalted over time, gods became angels and demons. The Trinity reintroduces a polytheistic element, despite calling those entities the same being to fit with previous monotheistic theology. As a result, some of the earlier or less adapted Bible passages can be interpreted to fit in a Christian context.
@@seanpierce9386 The Israelites were not originally polytheistic. There is good evidence against this that can at least fight the possibility to a draw. That's interpreting the verse in a modern skeptical context rather than understanding what the authors originally intended.
My son is going through catechesis right now and your videos are perfect length and format for him to understand these topics. Keep up the good work sir.
As an Orthodox Christian, here's what we think about the Trinity: First we have to make the distinction of the essence and energies. The essence is what God is, something we cannot fully understand and comprehend. God's energies is what God does, like love, justice etc. God's essence and God's energies are like 2 sides of the same coin, because both His essence His energies are God. Having gotten that out of the way, let's explain the Trinity. For anyone who doesn't know, Orthodox Christianity believes that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, unlike Catholics and Protestants, who believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. This is because the Son's procession is hypostatic, while the Holy Spirit's procession is energetic. So essentially, the Son is God in a human hypostasis, while the Holy Spirit is God's presence through his energies. This also means that the Holy Spirit could proceed from the Father through the Son, but not from the Son, as then it would make the Holy Spirit less God, which is not possible. With the Orthodox definition of the Trinity, understanding it becomes much more easier. Hope this helps! Edit: made some corrections in regards to the proceeding of the Holy Spirit
I think what's to understand here is that the Spirit is as much of a person as the Father and the Son, and also that the Son is equal to the Father (He said that the Father was greater than Him because in that moment, He was limiting Himself from his Divine capabilities, just like Paul said in his letters). So, whether the Spirit comes from the Father or the Son, technically speaking, it wouldn't make any difference because of how all three are the same and equal.
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” Isa 9:6
Notice the singularity in the verse here. He is THE mighty God. He is THE everlasting father. The revelation of Jesus Christ to come is that HE (Jesus) is the father. They are not separated into multiple parts or persons if you will
The part of the doctrine of the Trinity that I get hung up on is this: If Jesus is only the son, and he can't be the Father and the Holy Spirit, then why did the apostles primarily baptize in Jesus name after he told them specifically to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? Because it seems to me that the apostles were equating Jesus to the Father and the Spirit by making such a proclamation.
read the Didache (Apostle document from 50-70 AD), essentially, they weren't baptizing in Jesus name as a baptismal formula, rather, it was to distinguish itself from John the Baptists' baptism. The apostles always baptized into the name of "The Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" according to 1st century history. Either full immersion or pouring 3 times.
@@prodigalsonposts I understand that it was to differentiate, but if what Luke wrote down was a direct quote from Peter, then what he said to the masses after the outpouring of the spirit seems a little conflicting. Because that's the first time that doctrine was spoken over the masses. If that was a shorthand way of writing it, then there is no reason it wasn't also what was spoken when baptizing. I just think it's not taking the word as plainly as it's been written, is all. And the term that's used for "baptism" at that time only referred to one type of baptism, which was being submerged in a bed of water, like a river. In any case, it just seems misleading to say we know for a fact the apostles baptized without verbally speaking Jesus name when that's how it's documented most every time. And if they did that, then is it possible that they had a different understanding of Jesus than we do currently?
@@bctalicorn809 we know the way the apostles baptized because we have the Didache, from 70 AD. Apostolic document, and it says concerning baptism that one should either fully immerse or POUR 3 times - in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
The way I see it, and it may not be correct, is that "in the name of Father, Son , and Spirit" means "in the name of God" God (Jehovah) in the Old testament is also known by his name with his character/attributes eg Jehovah-Rafa or Jehovah-Jirah meaning "God is my healer" and "God is my redeemer", ie they are acceptable names for him. Since Jesus (Yehoshua) means "God is my salvation," it would be an equally valid name for the God described in the Old Testament
The Trinity can be a little difficult to grasp, but it's also what makes the most sense when we read the Scriptures. Like you said, numerous times in the Bible we see The Lord our God, the Lord is one. There is easily 1 God that can be seen in the text, but Yeshua (the Son) also calls himself God and was worshipped (something the angels have to blatantly tell people NOT to do). The Holy Spirit breathing through the writers, purifying, sanctifying, and dwelling in believers are "Godly" aspects/jobs so you can't call Him an angel. As well as Jesus proclaiming us to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That's personally what causes the Trinity to make sense for me.
5:03 i am former muslim , i'll explain that with monarchy king of germany , france , england , sweden . think about 1 person hold thesee titles . this is how that works many titles 1 god
Even if the trinity were true, Jesus never preached it outright, nor emphasized its importance. What he DID preach is how we should act and treat each other, and to have faith in him. Believing in this 3rd century catholic doctrine created by Greek philosophers is not necessary to Christianity, nor does it gatekeep anyone from following christ. Just have faith and keep his commandments
This was one of the most confusing topics of the Bible. Thank you for making it so clear! (im talking mostly on the heresies which were the questions I had)
Another one of the hundreds already in the comments that makes the title of this video misleading... 1.) It isn't logical. 2.) It isn't Biblical. If you need some source OUTSIDE the Bible to "explain" it to you, then there's a problem.
Trinity = God + God's Word + God's Spirit! = 1 God Tauhid = Allah + 2 eternal uncreated eternal things (partners (Word of Allah and spirit of Allah) next to the Islam book god! = 3 gods The Word is even the creator according to the book of Islam = a second creator god who exists forever!
@@elbron7595 - About which? 1.) the hundreds of comments in this video alone (and almost every Christian I've met) are proof that it's NOT logical in that no one seems to understand it. 2.) The Trinity creation always need an OUTSIDE source other than Scripture to explain it (hence this video). Every scholar admits that the "comma johanneum" is an ADDED text, so other than that, there's little evidence of a Trinity unless you read it INTO (eisegesis) the Text.
@@2besavedcom-7 1) Plenty of people seem to understand it and you are just saying that to appear "right" in your head. Please stop lying to yourself, understanding the trinity doesn't mean we can comprehend it, just like we can't comprehend God's eternalness or omipotence etc. 2) The trinity does not need an outside source and even if it does, that doesn't mean it isn't true. To interpret the Bible correctly at all requires outside sources due to different cultural, historical, and political differences and contexts at the times each book was written. This is why we look to the church fathers, church history, Apostolic tradition, and recorded history to better understand each situation and book.
John 17:3 talks about the importance of knowing the one true God. The idea that God would not only be unknowable (as shown by the video's mentioning of the incomprehensibility of the Trinity) but that belief in the Trinity is necessary to be considered a Christian is completely unbiblical and asinine. Let's look at John 17:20-24 as a simple example of the false nature of the Trinitarian doctrine. In these verses, Christ is offering his prayer to the Father on behalf of those who believe on Him, praying that they "may be one, even as [He and the Father] are one." If the oneness between the Father and the Son is a oneness of essence or substance, wherein they are of one essence but merely divided into three different persons, then wouldn't this essentially mean that Christ is praying that His followers also become God by sharing in this oneness which he already shares with the Father? Not even that His followers become gods but that they literally become God, just as He is supposedly God in the Trinitarian sense? Common sense would obviously tell any rational person no, but Trinitarian Christians are essentially trapped by this verse (especially since many of them erroneously believe that it is inherently sinful to want to be like God, ignorantly citing the creation story and Lucifer's temptation of Eve to do so). Whereas these verses contradict the Trinitarian conception of the oneness of God, they are entirely consistent with the Latter-day Saint conception of the oneness of God. The video's creator erroneously stated that Latter-day Saints are polytheistic (by the way, the Bible could technically be just as easily considered polytheistic, e.g. Psalms 82:1 and Psalms 97:9, but that's sort of a different conversation). By contrast, I will rightly assert that Latter-day Saints are NOT polytheistic and rather worship one God/Lord; we simply believe that this oneness of God is defined differently from the Trinitarian conception of God's oneness. Rather than believing that God is "one essence in three persons," whatever that means, Latter-day Saints understand that the oneness between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is a perfect unification of their love, will, and purpose. They are therefore three distinct beings who can be worshipped (monotheistically, arguably) as one God. With this conception of oneness, John 17:20-24 makes perfect sense. Christ is praying that his followers may be united in their love, will, and purpose, as He is already united with the Father in that same sense. How beautiful, actually. All of the other verses proclaiming Christ's oneness with the Father throughout the scriptures also fit into this framework. No, the Bible is not Trinitarian. The Trinity was a false doctrine constructed long after Christ's mortal ministry that was intended as a means by which Christianity could be reconciled with Platanist theistic philosophy. Many who believe in the Trinity are commendable for desiring to do so in order to worship God in all of His glory, but they are misguided in doing so. And then, many others will condemn the worshippers and followers of Christ for being destined to burn in hell forever just because they don't believe in this clearly unbiblical, incomprehensible, man-made, false doctrine. This sort of idea is a great example of one of the many ways that many Christians "draw near unto [God] with their ears, but their hearts are far from [Him]." No, Latter-day Saints are not polytheists. Yes, Latter-day Saints are Christians (who DO believe in a different Jesus from many Christians, admittedly, because we believe in the BIBLICAL Jesus instead of some man-made Trinitarian Jesus). No, disbelief in the Trinity will not condemn people to hell. I'd like to understand the perspective of Christian content creators like this guy but it's kind of difficult to do so when he hurls such bad-faith straw mans at the Restored Gospel. At least criticize us for what we actually believe if you're going to criticize us.
Luke 24:19 “What things?” he asked. “About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. Jesusohn 6:14 After the people saw the sign Jesus performed, they began to say, “Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Matthew 21:10-11 When Jesus entered Jesuserusalem, the whole city was stirred and asked, “Who is this?” The crowds answered, “This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee.”
I just hit them back with the 1×1×1=1. As they're all one God, it's multiplying by itself. God cubed if you will. The math doesn't perfectly align with the theology but it does a good job.
@@wes4736 the 1x1x1 doesnt make sesne, use this argument: Water has 3 states= Solid, Liquid and Gas, all of them are water, and even when you split them apart, they are all still individually water
@@darrionighodaro7914the 1x1x1 doesnt make sesne, use this argument: Water has 3 states= Solid, Liquid and Gas, all of them are water, and even when you split them apart, they are all still individually water.
It’s not in the Old Testament. Every instance of God’s revelation of his character and nature to man is of one being, not of 3 beings in heaven. And Jesus fulfills that 100%
Recently I watch a lot of videos from Bible translators and I’ve heard angels were rejected in the past until monotheism became more solid and they became actual servants of God. Therefore - maybe Trinity could not be fully revealed in the past because it may cause worshipping each person separately? Anyway, as some people say: “If you think you truly understand God, it means you misunderstand him completely.”
No the Trinity is a lie, just like Mormonism, Jehovah witnesses, and Muslims. It's not in scripture scripture teaches our God manifested in flesh to reconcile the world to himself Jesus is the fullness of God, the express Person, the visible image of the invisible, and the Alpha and Omega.
@micheledicecioc Deuteronomy 6:4, Isaiah 9:6 Isaiah 43:10-11 Acts 4:11-12, Luke 24:47, Acts 2:38 Collosians 1:15-19, Collosians 2:9, Revelation 1:8 Revelation 1:18. Jesus is Yahweh, not a separate person. He is the Only God.
Progressive revelation indoctrination! "Do not add to the word which I command you, nor diminish from it, to observe the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you." Deuteronomy 4:2
3:58 The word "Your" can be used as plurality. Supposedly that's one of the main reasons the Bible sometimes uses the informal "Thou/Thy" because another major difference between them beside formality is that "Thou/Thy" can only ever be singular, whereas "You/Your" can be singular or pluralasized. So if that statement was meant to be read as singular, in some translations it would be be read as "Israel, put thine hope in the Lord" but it's plural, meaning the people of Israel, so "Your" is proper grammer.
I'm not sure if I would say the Trinity is a salvation-level issue (happy to be proven wrong). But you do at least have to accept the sufficiency of Christ's death and resurrection to redeem us from sin. EDIT: Ok, thanks for the many responses. I will have a think about them.. To be clear, I myself believe in the Trinity.
It is a salvation level issue for those capable of adult rational function claiming to believe in Christ. Without believing in the trinity, you fall to one of many heretical ideaologies that lead you to a different god. Out of curiosity, what do you believe?
You havent explained how the trinity is logical at all. All you have done is incorrectly dropped the "s" when you say that these 3 different entities are all gods.
The problem people have with understanding the Trinity, is that they keep trying to apply human and physical constraints to God who is above such things.
There is no such thing as trinity in Scripture *at all.* It is a philosophical concept (not a teaching) pushed on the Scriptures by mainly *abusing* the Gospel of John. The Israelites were no trinitarians and neither were Jesus Christ and the Apostles. They worshipped one God >>> The Father! Can you prove me wrong from the Scriptures?
@@JudeOne3Four And they also worshipped Jesus Christ. I won't use the Gospel of John for this one. Matthew 3:13-17 - in the Baptism of Christ, there are obviously three persons. Those three persons are described as God, time and time again.
@@RMCbreezy Those are modern Bibles. Capitalization, if I'm not mistaken, didn't even exist back when the original manuscripts were being written in Hebrew.
I freely admit, even to my Sunday School students, that I don't completely understand the Trinity. It still exists though, and actually fits with God being bigger than my brain
The subject of the Trinity gives me the very novel experience of hearing someone speak a sentence in words that are entirely in English, with proper English grammar and sentence structure, and still feel like I heard a sentence in some ancient dialect of Chinese. I can't even say what I don't understand because I don't even understand it enough to explain what I don't understand about it. Short-circuits my brain entirely. I guess all stupid people are doomed to go to Hell :c
There are a lot of misconceptions made about the Bible that the general public has believed for many years. For example, the 4 horseman of the apocalypse. People wrongly believe that they are "Pestilence", War, Famine, and Death. This is, however, factually incorrect. Simply look at the verses, specifically this one: "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer." Does that SOUND like Pestilence? Where is the mention of spreading disease and sickness? There isn't one. Will there be any disease? Yes. Is there a horseman for it? No. Now let's think about this verse for a second. This horseman is "given a crown" like he is a false king, and sets out to conquer the world. Sounds a lot to me like it's false Religion, NOT Pestilence. Never forget that the Council of Nicea chose what was, and wasn't, allowed in the Bible, and that that was long after the Messiah had returned to Heaven. And He said that there would be wolves in the Church. We already have examples of this. There are whole Churches doing things God said not to do. These "pride" flags being allowed to wave on Church buildings is enough to make me sick. People need to stop studying ABOUT the Bible, and need to start studying the Bible itself. Reading one guy's book about his thoughts on the Bible is not the same as reading it itself. May the Messiah show you all the way to Him. Have a great day.
Another one of the hundreds already in the comments that makes the title of this video misleading... 1.) It isn't logical. 2.) It isn't Biblical. If you need some source OUTSIDE the Bible to "explain" it to you, then there's a problem.
@@2besavedcom-7 YT will not allow me to say what I want in response to you. So I’ll just leave it at this: people like you legitimize the hate the Christian community receives How can the trinity not be biblical, but the need for a non-biblical explanation be problematic? Do you even speak English?
@@itself227 - Been to Bible College, learned the ancient languages, spent the last 35 years perfecting my translation skills and undoing the nonsense taught by Christianity. It has been said that one probably couldn't fit one more wafer of paganism into Christianity so Christianity brings the derision upon itself. Come out from the "Mother of Whores."
Its not logical in the human sense sure, thats why God is omnipotent and divine, He can do whatever He wants. Now, its 100% biblical, Father is God its obvious, then Jesus being God is slightly less obvious, but its there, for example he actively accepts worship as God when Thomas touches His wounds. You dont need outside references to show the holy trinity, just read the Bible, the concept is there
@@maylingng4107 Someone needs to give you a cookie as you just realize the limitations of math. But if you are going to use math then that is the best answer. “As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.” - Albert Einstein
@@maylingng4107 No one understands quantum mechanics as there are 10 different theories and every one of them are weird. "Not only is the Universe stranger than we think, it is stranger than we can think." -Werner Heisenberg "The reality we can put into words is never reality itself." -Werner Heisenberg.
@@maylingng4107 You must approach the concept that the Father = God, the Son = God, and the Holy Spirit = God. I am also aware that the idea of infinite + infinite + infinite = infinite can hold true or not depending on certain conditions. There is a reason why the equation I mentioned holds true. Considering the characteristics of God presented earlier, each of the three infinities can be described as uncountable infinities. If the three infinities are the same uncountable infinity, then the equation I mentioned is valid.
@@maylingng4107 yeah but the higher orders of infinity cannot be reached through successive additions. The only way you get the higher infinities is through exponents or power sets
Understanding the Trinity in real life is like having one family where you have the father, the mother and a child. They have different roles and distinct people but they are in unity in one family. You cannot say a father equals to one family; a mother equals to one family; a child equals to one family in total of 3 families.
@@supermaxy2649 yeah... Ice, water, steam - modalism Three leaf clover, partialism Different roles that people have (son, father, brother) - modalism Just about all examples fall into a heretical camp - maybe, just maybe, God is leading you through all that, as most of us have to at some point or another - just see how each example is inadequate, it helps move us towards truth. Blessings
John 17:3 talks about the importance of knowing the one true God. The idea that God would not only be unknowable (as shown by the video's mentioning of the incomprehensibility of the Trinity) but that belief in the Trinity is necessary to be considered a Christian is completely unbiblical and asinine. Let's look at John 17:20-24 as a simple example of the false nature of the Trinitarian doctrine. In these verses, Christ is offering his prayer to the Father on behalf of those who believe on Him, praying that they "may be one, even as [He and the Father] are one." If the oneness between the Father and the Son is a oneness of essence or substance, wherein they are of one essence but merely divided into three different persons, then wouldn't this essentially mean that Christ is praying that His followers also become God by sharing in this oneness which he already shares with the Father? Not even that His followers become gods but that they literally become God, just as He is supposedly God in the Trinitarian sense? Common sense would obviously tell any rational person no, but Trinitarian Christians are essentially trapped by this verse (especially since many of them erroneously believe that it is inherently sinful to want to be like God, ignorantly citing the creation story and Lucifer's temptation of Eve to do so). Whereas these verses contradict the Trinitarian conception of the oneness of God, they are entirely consistent with the Latter-day Saint conception of the oneness of God. The video's creator erroneously stated that Latter-day Saints are polytheistic (by the way, the Bible could technically be just as easily considered polytheistic, e.g. Psalms 82:1 and Psalms 97:9, but that's sort of a different conversation). By contrast, I will rightly assert that Latter-day Saints are NOT polytheistic and rather worship one God/Lord; we simply believe that this oneness of God is defined differently from the Trinitarian conception of God's oneness. Rather than believing that God is "one essence in three persons," whatever that means, Latter-day Saints understand that the oneness between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is a perfect unification of their love, will, and purpose. They are therefore three distinct beings who can be worshipped (monotheistically, arguably) as one God. With this conception of oneness, John 17:20-24 makes perfect sense. Christ is praying that his followers may be united in their love, will, and purpose, as He is already united with the Father in that same sense. How beautiful, actually. All of the other verses proclaiming Christ's oneness with the Father throughout the scriptures also fit into this framework. No, the Bible is not Trinitarian. The Trinity was a false doctrine constructed long after Christ's mortal ministry that was intended as a means by which Christianity could be reconciled with Platanist theistic philosophy. Many who believe in the Trinity are commendable for desiring to do so in order to worship God in all of His glory, but they are misguided in doing so. And then, many others will condemn the worshippers and followers of Christ for being destined to burn in hell forever just because they don't believe in this clearly unbiblical, incomprehensible, man-made, false doctrine. This sort of idea is a great example of one of the many ways that many Christians "draw near unto [God] with their ears, but their hearts are far from [Him]." No, Latter-day Saints are not polytheists. Yes, Latter-day Saints are Christians (who DO believe in a different Jesus from many Christians, admittedly, because we believe in the BIBLICAL Jesus instead of some man-made Trinitarian Jesus). No, disbelief in the Trinity will not condemn people to hell. I'd like to understand the perspective of Christian content creators like this guy but it's kind of difficult to do so when he hurls such bad-faith straw mans at the Restored Gospel. At least criticize us for what we actually believe if you're going to criticize us.
you'd be wrong. I can understand the Trinity with the essence / hypostasis distinction, understanding the meaning of consubstantial, + understanding the 5 notions of the Trinity. Zero blind faith.
Another one of the hundreds already in the comments that makes the title of this video misleading... 1.) It isn't logical. 2.) It isn't Biblical. If you need some source OUTSIDE the Bible to "explain" it to you, then there's a problem.
@@2besavedcom-7 1. t is logical. What law of logic does it break? 2. It is biblical. Also, no other view is coherent. 3. The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God. 4. The Father and Son have personal relation throughout the New Testament. 5. If they have personal relation they can’t be one person with different modes, that’s illogical, and makes the nature of God schizophrenic
I always felt like the trinity in the bible was simple: God (the father of jesus), Jesus the son of God, and God’s spirit. Jesus and The Holy Spirit proceeds and came both from God, and are inherently God as well while still being Separate persons. Monarchical Trinitarian
And they are the set of authority to follow. Look how Jesus follows the Father's will, we should also reflect from him and follow him through Faith to be with God.
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Something being complicated does not mean it is not true. Often truth is very complex. Only lies can always be simple.
The Trinity is very comprehendible and easy to understand specially through analogies I do not know why you guys make it seem like a big topic but I don't think it's really true I mean the god in Christianity is not really a god worthy of worship for example he gave babies cancer and women cramps because eve decided to eat from an Apple tree that he knew she would eat from Yahweh also have done a lot of terrible things he reflects more of a human nature than that of a Divine being worthy of worship I am sorry I'm not trying to disrespect Christianity but I don't think it's really logical to worship session evil God there is no difference between the God in Islam or Judaism or Christianity they're all very bad people
Untrue...lies can be confusing...and the truth is simple.
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@@W8RIT1 If truth is simple then give me the proof to Goedel's incompleteness theorem in a single sentence, no longer than ten words.
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@@Unitedsteaks. You are wrong on every step here pal. 1. The trinity cannot be understood thru analogies, as trinity is a mystery. 2. God is worthy of worship, because he created us, and gave us the world. 3. "There are bad things in the world as consequence of sin! THAT IS UNFAIR" - this is very childish view of the world. First off even if adam and eve were the ones who sinned, look at the humanity afterwards - they killer, murdered, pillaged, started wars. And we continue to this day to do it. We did not stop being evil. And most people do not do anything to stop all the evil that is hapening in the world, they are actively aiding it. 4. If a baby dies due to cancer, but would commit no sin, it dies sinless, so it is a merciful end. But it is a trial for those who do still live. You are one of those people, for whom this is a trial, and you failed it. God is the only person who has the right of rule over life and death of any person. Maybe the baby that died, would be a second Hhitler, maybe second Einstein, it does not matter. When God takes a life, he has authority to do so, so saying that it is evil, is like saying that judge putting someone in jail for their crime is evil. God has authority to do so, so it is his prerogative. If you really cared about the life of the children with cancer, you would either pray for them, or become a doctor, and try to find a cure for cancer. You don't. You just use this as an argument to cover up your misdeeds.
Trinity is 3 in 1 there's Alot of things that are 3 in 1 you can use as an analogy and also God knew those humans he created will kill and start wars but created them anyways that's on him not on us lol
Uneducated protestant here. I still really don't understand. 1. Who specifically is the holy spirit, what do they look like? 2. Why isn't there any explicit mention of God being three persons in the Bible if this is the case? 3. Again, why did Jesus pray to God (the Father and the Holy Spirit I guess) for anything, if he is 100% God and can do anything those two can?
All the answers are biblically given by the authors. Let me briefly mention it. 1) holy spirit is the third person of the Godhead. Means he is not a power or some energy like many believe it. And he is not a robot. Because if you read the scripture you will know the holy spirit has emotions. 2) There are mentions of God being three persons. And there are verses where it says clearly that God is two persons. Such as genesis 19:24. 3) well prayer is a communication. And jesus is not in the same state as he was before he became a man. So now he has to communicate though the prayer. And he is not the father and the son thats why he is praying to them. We can also find apostles praying to the spirit of the God. We can also find the father praying to jesus in Hebrews 1:8-12.
The Three Christian School of thoughts Calvinism, Arminianism, & Molinism disagree on the concept of the trinity ? Orthodox Catholic and Protestant also disagree on the concept of the trinity ? Orthodox say that the father and the son has one nature and one will and the Holy Spirit proceed from the father alone. Catholic and Protestant say the father and the son have two different natures and two different will and the Holy Spirit proceed from the father and the son . The Maronites said the father and the son has two different natures and one will ? Which one is the correct concept of the trinity according to the Bible ? It clarifies the creed that was formulated at the Council of Nicaea in 325. A minority of Christian sects reject the Trinity and consider it not mentioned in the sacred texts Questions for trinitarian about the trinity : 1) in the trinity you say the father and the son are fully equal to the one another. The son is begotten but the father is unbegotten can you say that the father is begotten like the son ? 2) if the trinity is 3 persons is the trinity identical to the 3 persons ? 3) In the trinity Does the father know that he is the father ? Does the son know that he is the son ? does the father know that he is the son ? Does the son know that he is the father? 4) Does the father know that he has Human nature and does the son know that he has divine nature ? if he answer no that means they don’t have the same knowledge 5) In the trinity the three persons in god are they dependent on each others or independent of each others? 6) If the father is one with the son why he come always first in the trinity ? 7) If the three persons in the trinity are one can we replace them with one another can the son be the 1st then the spirit the 2nd then the father the 3rd ? 8) Is Jesus in the Godhead or would you say the Godhead is in Jesus ? if he answer one of them that means we have 2 Gods in the Godhead but if he If he answer both of them we ask how can someone be in the Godhead and also the Godhead be in them at the same time ? 9) John 4:24 God is Spirit is that spirit referring to the whole trinity or to the father or the son or the Holy Spirit ? if he answer to the father it means we have 2 spirits the Holy spirit and the father spirit but if he said refer to the trinity it means we have 3 spirits in the trinity 10) Do you see the father son and the holy spirit as three different names of three persons or do you see the father son and Holy spirit as describing one name of one God if so what is the one name that it’s describing ? If he answer the one name of the one God we ask him what is the one name ? 11) Will we see the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit in heaven? 12) Was Jesus Unitarian or trinitarian ? Why ? 13) in the trinity you say the father and the son are fully equal to one another. The son is begotten but the father is unbegotten can you say that the father is begotten like the son ? 14) John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (Jesus said explicitly the father is the only true God,How many person is the father ? is he one person or three person when Jesus said he is the only TRUE God ? 15) Is the trinity one identity or three identities? 16) In the trinity do you believe in one self or three selves? 17) Is the attribute of life a Divine or human characteristic? 18) Does the father need the son to exist or does the son need the father to exist ? Does the father need the son for existence or Does the son need the father for existence or and why? 19) in the trinity you say the father and the son are fully equal to one another. The father is the one who sent the son can we say the son is the one who sent the Father because they are fully equal to one another ?
Physicists will disagree with the concept of quantum physics but they don't deny the quantum level is real. It's just very hard to understand the quantum level since atoms do not act like machines at all. There 10 different theories of quantum mechanics and every single one of them are weird. "Not only is the Universe stranger than we think, it is stranger than we can think." -Werner Heisenberg
@@1541965not our problem you are a illiterate Suicide bomber Abdool 🐷🐖 second The council of nicea had nothing to do with the trinity it was againist Arian Hersey rejected his divinity the Hebrew and greek bible literally finished 150 years before the council itself genius
Love the Hijab 'You're finished!' all quiet hidden in the background audio in this video. Not time stamping so people try and find that little Easter egg.
Jewish Rabbi Scholars and Theologian said Christian corrupted the Jewish Tankh by add delete and change to impose Jesus and trinity on the Jew. You can't find trinity in the New Testament so how could you find it in the Old Testament.
@@1541965 how does a person send a person instead of thyself? What is that? Schizophrenic third person speak? Malachi: 3:1 “I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. (Interjection from Noah, that's John the Baptist) Then suddenly the Lord (Noah interjection, God the son) you are seeking will come to *his* temple; *my* (interjection)messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD (God the father) Almighty. God refers to a he messenger he calls the Lord and a my referring to the self. That gives me multi persons vibes. As my interjections give context. "“I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; my messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD Almighty."
Heavenly Father hear my prayers. Give me courage. As a single mother, raising not one but two children on the spectrum I am overwhelmed and I’m constantly struggling to pay bills. Struggling to buy groceries, struggling to do it all. I want to give up however faith is all I have left and faith is all I need. FATHER GIVE ME STRENGTH.
Yes correct, it is always the Father (one person) and never the TRI-nity, ever! Phil 2:9 Wherefore God also *hath highly* EXALTED HIM, and GIVEN HIM *a name which is above every name:* 10 That at the name of Jesus *every knee* should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue *should confess* that Jesus *Christ* is Lord, TO *the glory* OF >>> *God the Father.*
Trinity is not Logical though, God is not created, Sons are always created by Fathers. This means is logically impossible for both the Father and Son to exist co eternally in to the past. or for the son to be "uncreated"
@@aaronstately Saying “God the Son” and “God the Father” is not the same as me saying that I am my earthly father’s son. Christ is uncreated and is fully God. The Father is uncreated and is fully God. The Son is not less than the Father. These words are used for the benefit of man, as we truly cannot comprehend the structure of The Lord God Almighty.
@@burningscales but it is the same, because its the analogy given so we can understand. thats how good analogy's work. If a divine son is Different than a Human Son then the whole point of having your son be sacrificed is lost, as we can not understand it, and its relevance is lost. we relate to Abraham when he trys to sacrifice Isaac because he only has one... and so on and so forth.
The Bible doesn't support the doctrine and nothing Jewish about the trinity. It comes from paganism. Let's go with the Christian argument. So if Jesus is God why would he say these things? Jesus states only the Father is God John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." Jesus asks why his God abandoned him Matthew 27:46 "At about three o'clock Jesus shouted with a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" that is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Mark 15:34 "At the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, “ELOI, ELOI, LEMA SABAKTANEI?” which is translated, “MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?”" Jesus tells his disciples that he would be going to their God and his God John 20:17 "Jesus *said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’” If Jesus in heaven as God now. Why would God claim to have a God? In Revelation Jesus states he hadn't found his followers deeds completed in the sight of his God. Revelation 3:2 "‘Be constantly alert, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God." Jesus states the one who overcomes he would make a pillar in the temple of his God. Revelation 3:12 "‘The one who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name."
Luke 24:19 “What things?” he asked. “About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. Jesusohn 6:14 After the people saw the sign Jesus performed, they began to say, “Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Matthew 21:10-11 When Jesus entered Jesuserusalem, the whole city was stirred and asked, “Who is this?” The crowds answered, “This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee.”
It's interesting that a theology that didn't exist at the time of Jesus and slowly developed between 200 and 500 C.E. is considered biblical and a foundation to modern Christianity.
Hey brother, I'm feeling really confused. For nearly two months, I've been searching for the truth about Islam and Christianity. I've watched several of your videos that resonate with me, as well as some from other Muslims that also make sense. Could you please make a video explaining why Christianity is the only true path and provide some proof? I'm currently a Muslim and considering converting to Christianity. Thanks in advance!
It would be easier to help you work out where you stand if you gave some details about what arguments you are considering. When it comes to why Christianity should be considered the only true path, the main reason for saying that is because it's what Jesus claimed. One example of this would be John 14:6 "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." All four gospels have multiple instances where Jesus claims to be divine. And the resurrection is a pretty good demonstration that he was telling the truth. The most important differences between Islam and Christianity are their different views of Jesus. Christians believe that Jesus was the person his first generation of followers unanimously agreed him to be, and point to the texts they wrote as evidence. Muslims believe that Jesus was not this person, and instead trust the claims of a man six centuries removed from the events. Who claimed to have received his revelation from an angel, rather than from eyewitnesses. There are numerous reasons not to trust this later claimed revelation, some of it instances where the Quran very obviously gets its facts wrong and some of it being what the Hadith and other early Islamic literature say about Mohammed himself.
"why Christianity is the only true path and provide some proof? I'm currently a Muslim and considering converting to Christianity." I was a Christian for 15 years before becoming a Muslim. I know you didn't ask me, and you're free to make your choices in life, but why would you convert to Christianity, a religion that can't even explain who or what God is? Christians believe God became a man, Jesus, and that Jesus (God) died on the cross. At the same time, they'll say God never died because God is immortal and everlasting. So they have a God who died and a God who did not, but somehow there's still one God. Does any of this make sense to you?
@@stephengray1344 "When it comes to why Christianity should be considered the only true path, the main reason for saying that is because it's what Jesus claimed. One example of this would be John 14:6 "I am the way and the truth and the life..." So the reason why Christianity is true is because the Christian scriptures say it's true?
@@theologyroom Please don't strawman my comments. I was pointing out that Jesus claimed that following him was the only way to God. This leaves us with two possibilities. Either Christianity is true and it is the only way to God, or Christianity is false, and nothing that Jesus said tells us anything about God.
Btw when quran said christians worship mary as a person of trinity he said that catholics are those ones. As a catholic myself I still laugh when I think about it.
Also, LORD comes from the Hebrew word "Adonai," which, translated as literally as possible, means "Masters." Also, in Hebrew, you need at least 3 of something to be plural.
No man, Modern Hebrew is a new invented language by the Pharisees. They even call it a magical language. On top of that, all the names of your god >> adonai, elohim, I am, yahweh ect come from the Kabbalah tree of life. This is nothing but Jewish mysticism called the Kabbalah! 👉*Table of Divine Names Associated with the Ten Sephiroth* Didn't Jesus warn you against the Pharisees? Yes, He did. And now "christians" are spreading Jewish mysticism without even knowing it. That is the reason why they gave us their corrupted version of the OT. This is what the "Rabbi's" call >> The Judaization of Christianity!! The early Christians read the Septuagint OT in Greek from 285 BC and not the corrupted Masoretic Text from 1000 AD!!!
I have a few questions from the perspective of a LDS and I'm just tryna learn, 1. If God said we're created after his own image (Genesis 1:26-27), would we not have attributes similar to the trinity? 2. In John 10:30 when Jesus says he is one with God and the Jews start stoning him for blasphemy, he says "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" Is Christ implying that we can also reach godhood through him? I know that's often seen has a blasphemous take but is this what Christ is saying? 3. As far as pointing out verses where people become one like with Adam and Eve, in 1 Corinthians 6:17, Paul writes that "He that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit." This implies that we can achieve this "oneness" as well? Does this mean there doesn't have to be a "God" that binds these 3 beings, but instead they could be totally separate entities united in purpose? Finally just to add onto that third question, Jesus says in John 14:10 (and in a few other verses) that "the Father is in me" (once again implying that they are separate entities like you said in the video). However, he then says in John 14:17 (and a few other verses) that the "spirit dwelleth in us", but as far as I know most Christians don't believe that we have any "Trinitarian" attributes, even though God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit can "dwell in us" just as they are "in each other". Can someone with a better understanding help answer these questions, especially the 3rd one, thanks.
@@itself227 I don’t have a church currently. I left my church because they do not stand on the word of God (not specifically talking about the trinity but yes they did believe that). I don’t know any Christian churches that do not believe in the trinity but just believe scripture. Remember let all men be liars but God be true. Also remember how many times we are taught in scripture that many will be deceived and the traditions of men etc.
@@itself227I believe in one God, the Father, YWHW. His literal Son Christ Jesus is the only way to know God. Jesus was begotten and had a beginning, but no end. He existed before the world was with God. Everything in our reality is created by God through Jesus Christ. Before the world was, He was a spirit, the Word of God. He manifested as a human once earth and now is in heaven with the Father on His right hand, also a spirit. That is what scripture teaches if you don’t read any tradition or doctrines of men into it.
Then are we also triune beings? In hebrew the word for breath/wind/spirit is the same "roo'ach", word the word for mind and soul in greek in the bible is Pneuma and the word for Word in greek is "logos" and as humans we have a mind, spirit and speach which have the power of life and death in them...I'm not here to lead you astray but it's an interesting thought. However I am not saying that we are God, for there is only one God Isaiah 45:5 " I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me-"
John 1:1 isnt the words of Jesus. Plus jews never ever believed in the concept of trinity and only believed in one God, so you are saying that God was perfectly fine with that for 1500 years and never called them out on it?
1. Does it make it invalid even though it’s John’s writing? If so, then why trust John on anything, even when he quotes Jesus? 2. Just because the Jews didn’t have a complete understanding of the nature of God doesn’t mean they were somehow incorrect and thus God glossed over their faultiness. Many things were hidden from followers of YHWH prior to Jesus’ incarnation, not just the Trinity.
I find it ironic that I actually had most of this explained to me while taking a college course on _Egyptian_ religions. One of the first concepts we went over was "aspective logic," the idea that a god had multiple distinct aspects (typically distinguished by name, role, and/or title) that could manifest separately from one another, even interact with each other (e.g. the images of Amun from Karnak and Luxor during the Opet festival). Such ideas were not limited to Egypt, but were almost universal across the ancient Near East. Even Judaism entertained such ideas (e.g. Yahweh's epithet "Adonai," God as divine father), and debates over a Yahweh's nature as multi-aspect vs a singular monad were common among rabbinical schools in Jesus's era. Unfortunately, this debate got considerably more polarized after Christ's crucifixion, with Christians and more traditional Jewish camps abruptly gravitating around multi-aspect and monad models respectively (and the latter seemingly out of reflexive repudiation of the former). And despite its obvious pagan/gnostic roots, the Islamic monad model that came later was even more simplistic than the Jewish one, one that seemingly forgot the multi-aspect beliefs of their forebears (Abrahamic and pagan) overnight. There is a great and terrible irony for anyone using the "1+1+1=1" argument, one that does a disservice to everyone involved (and their respective ancestors).
Okay, Testify, let’s discuss. What is a “deity”? I’m not talking about the one true God, just, what is the definition of the word “deity”? Aside from the obvious being “a god or goddess” the next most accurate definition is THIS: *divine status, quality, or nature* So if a person has a divine nature, that person is a deity. The problem with “three persons” sharing one divine nature, means that each of those persons are divine. Three persons, each with the same divine nature. In other words, three deities. But then you go ahead and say “it’s not three deities, it’s three divine persons sharing the same nature”. What is that nature? Divinity. It’s circular logic! “God can’t be three gods because he’s only one god”. Okay, so there’s not three divine persons, there’s only one divine person, who is God. “No, there’s one God, expressed in three divine persons”. I mean it feels like the Sponge Bob meme with Patrick denying that the wallet isn’t his. Three divine persons, mean three deities. But there aren’t three deities, there’s only one deity, expressed in three divine persons. And your go-to reasoning is “God is infinitely larger than us, so he doesn’t have to make sense”? You cannot be intellectually honest with yourself and make the same awful claim that C.S. Lewis makes. The Son IS the Father. I am mind, body, and spirit. God is Father, Son, Holy Spirit. This isn’t partialism, because that’s saying God is in three thirds. God is not in thirds, he’s 1/1, not 3/3. Humans are 1/1, not 3/3. This isn’t modalism, because God doesn’t cease being the Father when he is the Son. Saying that there are three divine persons, only to say that there are not three gods but only one God, is insane circular logic. And when called out on it, your reasoning is “God is greater than I am, he doesn’t have to make sense”. Huh? That’s poor logic for a poor argument. Jesus is the Father. He’s called The everlasting Father in Isaiah 9:6. Case closed. He says “I and my Father are one”. If he was claiming “I and my Father are united in will”, that wouldn’t have been blasphemy in the eyes of the Jews. Many of the Jews believed they too were one with the Father’s will. Yet they stoned Jesus because they interpreted him as saying “I am God”. So saying “I am united with God”, means “I am God”? I doubt it. “I am God” means “I am God”. “I and my Father are one”, Jesus is claiming to be the Father. “My Father is greater than I”, “My mind is greater than my body”. Honestly- it just infuriates me that everyone spreading the main doctrine of the Trinity around can’t hold a debate with me on this. I prove how circular their logic is and they ghost me. Testify, please hold a debate with me.
@@brandenmarcum430 Hello and thank you for this comment, I have been researched alot on this topic, and your comment sums up the conclusion I feel like Im coming too. This view on the God Head, as the Bible calls it, seems to be far more concrete and sound than traditional trinitarianism is, however its hard to say that to others without being labeled a "heretic" right away. Praise Jesus Christ and may he be with you now and forever more
@@zacharybalean Honestly, it’s insane how many people shout “HeReTiC!!” when you explain how you interpret the Bible. I’m convinced the main reason many people believe in the 3 persons one essence stuff is because they’re afraid to come to their own conclusions- they’re afraid of being labeled a heretic. I’m not afraid. Jesus was accused of blasphemy and heresy all the time, all because he diverged from their traditional teachings. When I diverge from traditional teachings, and called a heretic, how can I not look at my accusers the same way Jesus did? Jesus didn’t come to replace a set of traditions with a new set of traditions. Jesus never cared for traditions in the first place, nor religion for that matter. Getting upset that I’m committing some sort of heresy by diverging from tradition isn’t an insult to me.
@@brandenmarcum430 amen brother, well said, freedom in Christ is truly a wonderful thing, Christianity is truth of the world, not just a religion that boils doen to this "doctrine and this "theological point". I really do pray all christians can understand the fullness of that freedom one day, and thank you for your messeges God bless you friend
Jesus prays to the Father. If Jesus is identical to the Father, then he would be praying to himself, which is absurd. Case closed, sorry. Regarding different ways to count personal beings: suppose I am married and 1 year from now I enter a time machine and travel back in time to today. How many husbands does my wife have? There is a bit of a paradox here: in one sense, she has one husband - me. But surely, we can point to two instances of me who are in distinct places. She is indeed married to both instances of me, because both instances ARE me. It would not be a sin for her to have sex with either of "me", because she is indeed married to both, who are the same being. Now you can imagine the same with God, except He is not bound by time so He can do the same thing without invoking time travel.
@@jsupim1 Jesus leads by example. Jesus prays to the Father because he was in a human body. Humans need prayer. Prayer isn’t talking TO God, it’s talking WITH God. “Blessed be the name of the Lord”, Jesus isn’t praising God, no one is praising God when they say that. They’re stating a simple fact, like the sky is blue. “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do”, Jesus is reassuring himself. When he was in the cross, THAT is when Satan tempted him most. Satan wanted Jesus to use his divine and righteous power to smite all of humanity for killing them. The Father is all knowing, why else would Jesus need to say “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do”, wouldn’t the Father already know that? Jesus is praying WITH himself, not to himself. Besides, you never had that inner voice that talks to you? Sometimes I think to myself “Okay, we just gotta do this and get it over with” or sometimes I just think “okay, let’s try this instead”. Who is we? Who is us? No one. I’m just talking to myself. But you’re right, Jesus never prayed to himself because that’s not what prayer is. Prayer is a form of meditation, it’s a way to align yourself with the Father. When Jesus talks with the Father, he’s connecting to his mind. Humans are separated from their higher consciousness, that’s why we need prayer. We need to talk with the Father because we can’t talk to ourselves. When he says “My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?”, he doesn’t actually feel like God abandoned him, he’s just referencing Psalm 22, fulfilling another prophecy. He’s making sure that people familiar with the Psalm understand that Jesus’s death will lead to great things. And if you hypothetically time traveled and meet a “time remnant” of yourself, then there wouldn’t be two versions of you- there’s only one of you. Even if you meet your past self and stay within the same room, you’re not at two different spots at the same time. To suggest so would mean there’s an infinite amount of you at an infinite amount of spots. By traveling to the past and meeting your past self, there aren’t two of you, there’s still only one of you. Past you has yet to experience the moments you are. Past you looking at you is looking at his own future, it’s HIM. In a room with past you, present you, and past wife, there’s only two people in that room. It’s trippy, I know, but if it were to hypothetically happen like that, that’s what it would be. Your analogy falls short anyways because even if the time remnant is a different person, that’s not how God works. God isn’t in multiple places at the same time, and even if he is operating two avatars, God is already everywhere. He wouldn’t be in two places at the same time. Secondly, if he has two avatars, the two separate bodies would just be considered extensions of God’s true form, like arms connected to a torso. They wouldn’t be considered separate people, because what makes the person is the mind, the higher consciousness. There are not three divine persons. To suggest that there are three divine persons is to suggest three deities. But then you go ahead and say it’s not three gods, it’s only one God, expressed in three persons. Are each of those persons equally divine? Yes? Then there’s three divine persons, meaning three gods. It’s circular logic, and the reasoning to the circular logic is “God is so much greater than me, he doesn’t have to make sense”. Poor reasoning for a poor argument.
Love this, I'm looking forward to the next video, this really does help with helping to explain the Trinity. A friend I have quit believing in that, and is arian, so this helps with research to help in discussion sometime. Thx, and God Bless ya
I’m Jewish but in my Jewish studies class we had a catholic teacher come in and she explained it as, “god in heaven, god on earth, and god inside someone”. That helped me understand it even though personally I don’t believe it
3:25 to add to the rebuttal of the Shema objection, I can also add that in Hebrew, the names of God are repeated 3 times before Echad, alluding to the trinity. "Hear o Israel, The *LORD*, our *GOD*, The *LORD* is one" Trinity is completely biblical
Gods talkin to himself. He is the holy spirit. He is jesus and theres the key part that is everywhere all the time since forever until forever but god never changes always was how is so Jesus was always there also so was the holy spirit theyre 1 god 1 entitity 3 parts. Its not a trinity its more like a head and two hands for one body.
Everybody with a clear mind, reading Genesis 1:1 to verse 26 and beyond will never come to the conclusion of a three person god, ever! *Septuagint* Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold *I* have given to you every seed-bearing herb sowing seed which is upon all the earth... Genesis 2:2 And God finished on the sixth day *his* works which *he* made, and *he* ceased on the seventh day from all *his* works which *he* made. See, the context refutes you. You cannot take a verse out of context?! God is always adressed with single personal pronouns and never with plural pronouns, ever!! In Genesis 1:26 God was not alone, the angels rejoiced and praised God when He made the stars (Job 38:7). So the angels where there. God was talking with plural of majesty, He was making an announcement to His holy angels about the creation of the first man. Adam was made in God's own image and likeness. Adam was one person! God is our Heavenly Father, Father is One Person!
Mind you, this is the same God who managed to put the ideas and concepts of good and evil in a fruit probably the size of a pomegranate. So why do you expect to understand His very Being easily? Just learn and abide by what He has revealed to us, and love Him with all you have.
"It can be pretty confusing..." Duh...Notice he says they are all fully God, and yet they don't all have the attributes of God and they are described differently in the Bible. There is literally nothing logical about it, even after your very weak contradictory attempt at an explanation.
There are so many times that God is referred to as three persons. It doesn't even have to be passages from the gospels, you can find them in GENESIS. He's referred to as "Us" TWICE.
@@kashmirandal6282 exactly, then there is no point in the cube. Also if they were all equal they would all display equal qualities of God within all of their forms. They do not
@@kRaZyXmAn Again, they are distinct persons, not separate. They would obviously have separate qualities of God. Think of it like this: Father = mind Son = body Holy Spirit = soul Your body would not have the same qualities as your soul.
I have come across many "spiritual but not religious" people that claim "the trinity is fake because it tries to encapsulate God, God is much larger than that" then you dig deeper in what they actually believe and what they want is God to mean nothing so they can create their own gods and call it God. The Holy Trinity is a revelation that God Himself did to us, He is trying to make us understand Him.
1.) There is One God 2.) Jesus is that One God incarnate 3.) Jesus is the fullness of the Godhead not a partial revelation of God 🚨 The Trinity is defined by Tradition not by the Scriptures alone
Trinity is not biblical. Nor is it what the earliest Christians believed. See the book Restoring the Biblical Christ for evidence of all that I am saying
John 8:58 is typically used to say that Jesus quoted Exodus 3:14 but comparing these two Greek texts side by side, we know this isn't true. John 8:58 is also used to say Jesus is YHVH. Again, this couldn't be true either because that would be confusing identity with being. The son's identity is Jesus. The Father's identity is YHVH. To say Jesus is YHVH is at least combining modalism with trinitarianism. There is no text that ever reads Jesus "is" God. Trinitarians can have two texts where the son is "called" God. John 20:28, Heb 1:8. Heb 1:8 is always quoted without 1:9 where it is clear the son has a God in the very next verse.
I think you don’t really know how trinitarianism works. The Son is YHVH and the Father is YHVH (along with the Spirit ofc). They’re three persons but one God: YHVH. Also there are tons of verses in the Bible that pretty explicitly state Jesus is God, not just the two ones you quoted: John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God John 1:18 - No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. John 8:58 - Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.” John 20:28 - Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” Acts 20:28 - Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has appointed you as overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which he purchased with his own blood. Romans 9:5 - The ancestors are theirs, and from them, by physical descent, came the Christ, who is God over all, praised forever. Amen. Hebrews 1:8 - but to the Son: Your throne, God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of justice. Titus 2:13 - while we wait for the blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:1 - Simeon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ: To those who have received a faith equal to ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ. 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we may know the true one. We are in the true one - that is, in his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
@@ChristIsLordofAll-xb6xv The Father is clearly named/identified as YHVH. If you want to say the the son is YHVH, you are saying that Jesus is the Father. You are either a modalist or a claiming trinitarian that unknowingly combining modalism with trinitarianism. The early church fathers never identify Jesus as YHVH. That is a very modern teaching.
@@JohnLLJ 1. There has been a clear distinction between Trinitarianism and Modalism. Jesus has always been YHWH in traditional Trinitarian thinking. 2. Ignatius, a disciple of John the Apostle, says Jesus is our God (Ignatius Letter to Ephesians 7:2). Justin Martyr, one of the earliest church fathers, equated Jesus with God who spoke to Moses from the burning bush (Dialogue with Trypho). Again… John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God John 1:18 - No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. John 8:58 - Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.” John 20:28 - Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” Acts 20:28 - Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has appointed you as overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which he purchased with his own blood. Romans 9:5 - The ancestors are theirs, and from them, by physical descent, came the Christ, who is God over all, praised forever. Amen. Hebrews 1:8 - but to the Son: Your throne, God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of justice. Titus 2:13 - while we wait for the blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:1 - Simeon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ: To those who have received a faith equal to ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ. 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we may know the true one. We are in the true one - that is, in his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
@ChristIsLordofAll-xb6xv If Jesus is YHVH, you have created problematic texts. For example Psalm 110.1,5. Psalm 110:1 YHVH said to "adoni" (Messiah, Jesus). Is Jesus talking to himself? Jesus is at the right hand of the Father, do you think Jesus is going to be at the right and left of himself at the same time executing judgement? Psalm 110:5.... Well? John 8:58, please tell me Jesus quoted Exo 3:14.. 1st "I AM" Ego Eimi ho on. 2nd "I AM" ho on. The woman at the well when Jesus claimed to be the Messiah said Ego Eimi Ho! The blind man at John 9:9 said grammatical idententical to John 8:58...Ego Eimi. Heb 1:9, the theos in 8 has a God in 9. Titus 2:13 is weak, that is a Granville Sharpe rule. 2 peter 1:2 there is God and Jesus. 1 peter 1:3 Jesus has a God again.
@@JohnLLJ Again, we who believe in the Trinity believe the Father and the Son are two separate persons. I agree with you on that. However, there are not only explicit state my by the NT authors that say He is God, but Jesus equates Himself multiple times as the God of the OT. God in the Old Testament I AM (Exodus 3:14-15; Isaiah 48:12) The Shepherd (Psalm 23:1) The Light (Psalm 27:1) The Rock (Psalm 18:2) Ruler of all (Isaiah 9:6) Judge of all nations (Joel 3:12) The Bridegroom (Isaiah 62:5; Hosea 2:16) God’s Word never passes away (Isaiah 40:8) The Sower (Jeremiah 31:27; Ezekiel 36:9) First and the Last (Isaiah 48:12) Jesus’ Reference to Himself I AM (John 8:58) The Shepherd (John 10:11) The Light (John 8:12) The Rock (Matthew 7:24) Ruler of all (Matthew 28:18) Judge of all (John 5:22) The Bridegroom (Matthew 25:1) Jesus’ words never pass away (Mark 13:31) The Sower (Matthew 13:3-9) First and the Last (Revelation 1:17-18)
Me casually trying to understand the Trinity without comitting heresy: 😅😭 Jokes aside thanks to this video I grasp the concept a bit more rather than having my own personal view of it, thank you very much Tesify!
Sincerely, thank you for doing videos on the Trinity. I lost a bet, but thank you. For years it seemed like you conveniently ignored this topic, so I assumed you were Oneness. Never been happier to be wrong!
Sometimes it brothers me very much how people who don't have good education or time to think due to work would find this important concept hard to understand, it is what it is, God protects them from these doubts until it's the right time to understand ig
Deut 6.4-6, Mark 12.28-32, John 17.1, John 20.17, Rom 15.6, Rom 16.27, I Cor 8.6, II Cor 11.31, I Tim 2.5, Rev 1.5-6, Rev 3.12, John 8.40, Acts 2.22, Acts 17.31, Rom 5.15, Gal 4.4.
Matthew 28:19, John 1:1, John 10:30, John 14:16-17, John 14:26, John 16:13-15, 2 Corinthians 13:14, Colossians 2:9, Philippians 2:5-6, Hebrews 1:3, Isaiah 9:6, Genesis 1:26, Genesis 18:1-2, Matthew 3:16-17, 1 Peter 1:2, Ephesians 4:4-6, Acts 5:3-4, Romans 8:9-11, Galatians 4:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6, John 8:58
Just subscribed to your channel through a dear brother from his channel Lion of Fire Raw Ministries. Thank God I am finding more channels that are helpful resources to study God's Word.
Okay I may just be setting myself up to get flamed here but I'm gonna go for it. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, so of course not a trinitarian. This video really surprised me because he explains the trinity EXACTLY as us "mormons" see it (although we use the term "godhead"), with the addition of just throwing in the word "trinity" or saying "but He's just one God" every once in a while. You could cut like 5 sentences from this video and it would have the green light to be shown in mormon Sunday school. Other than those few little phrases, we literally have the same conception of God. Three distinct persons, united in purpose and order, not the same as each other nor part of a whole, but a three-part unit that functions together. We preach all of these things in the Church of Jesus Christ. We agree on everything up until "oh but also trinity," and further questions are met with "well God is unlimited and we can't comprehend Him so you just have to accept it otherwise you're a heretic." The problem with this logic is that, in making the claim that we can't fully comprehend God's nature, you no longer have the luxury to insist on the trinity, because that is a very definite claim about God's nature. A semantic issue like this is absolutely not worthy of the amount of contention it causes, and I would argue that it's outright irresponsible to call this heresy, much less polytheism. If this is video is an accurate description of the protestant view of the trinity, then Latter Day Saints are not the enemy. Anybody willing to have an honest and reasonable discussion with a Latter Day Saint will find that we almost entirely agree on this concept.
This is a half-baked thought I have yesterday as I struggled to fall asleep. If you start from the presupposition that existence requires an observer, a triune God is also perfectly logical. As within that entity, you'd need at least two entities for each to observe the other and confirm that they they do exist, and then a third to observe the "Is" and "Is Not" (to serve as discriminator if you will) between the two entities and in a silly sense giving them form and specify where one starts and the other ends (or at least to observe that fact.) Beyond three, you have observers of a self contained relationships, so not needed. Three becomes the perfect number for the number of people you'd expect an entity that was there before all things existed to have. Now, I am NOT saying that's how God is! But that's just a thought that flashed in my head yesterday as I fell asleep at 3am.
In a nutshell: God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are three different people, who all work together as God. But we can’t say that they are the distinct individuals because then we’d share “Mormon” beliefs, but we obviously can’t do that.
For the slowbois: "Think of the Father like the sun and the Son like the light from the sun. The sun can’t exist without shining, just like the Father can’t exist without the Son. They are always together, and the Son has always been with the Father, just like light has always been with the sun."
I like to explain it as imagine how if you conceive of God as all powerful, included in that is the ability to take different forms. If you accept that He is all powerful, and can take different forms, why would he be limited to only one at a time? Why would they not be able to exist simultaneously? This would imply some limit on his power. It’s kinda dumbed down, but I like to use this as a good basis for explaining the Trinity to people who it’s completely foreign to.
Dear Lord, Dad Jesus, God Almighty, in Your Absolutely Perfect Name, may The Day of The LORD come really soon, so that You may wipe away every tear from our eyes! 😁🩶💯🙏😇
I've read the whole entirety of The Bible as a whole of it's context and the way I see how Trinity is a manner of the Embodiment of Who GOD is rather than a persona in which it defines it's characteristic for what the purpose of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit is all about which represent GOD as omnipotent and omniscient. The Alpha and The Omega. The Beginning and The Last. 🙏
If your answer to a question that big(the trinity) is that we cant understand then dont bother explaining anything because it makes no difference after that.
I will argue that the doctrine of the Trinity does have some points that can be debated upon that people commonly hold as heretical, but really aren't. A common one I hear is that there is no hierarchy in the trinity, when Jesus repeatedly makes claim to there being a hierarchy. For some reason, people assume that believing there is a hierarchy in personhoods=Arianism or Partialism, but it really doesn't.
I once heard someone comparing the Holy Trinity to our own being: I'm a body, a "heart", and a mind. All of these are inseparable because all of them constitute my being. Is that partialism?
The thing that bothers me about the Trinity vs Muslims issue is that they will take a few verses, quote them as authoritative (ie: As if they believe the Bible) Then they pretend they know the Bible better than Christians despite the fact that they also believe the Bible to be corrupt. They want us to accept their interpretation of our book. Could you imagine if a Christian insisted that we teach them what their text says? The Muslims would never accept that. The hypocrisy is ridiculous. If you are a Muslim, stick to the Quran and leave the Bible alone. As a Christian, I don't need help from a Muslim to understand the Bible. If you want me to think that Jesus isn't God... use your own text, don't go to the Bible. The Bible is clear... Jesus is God.
You can always turn it around on them. Surah 5:68 commands Christians to judge the quran based on the Gospel and Jews to judge it based on the Torah. That means the quran automatically accepts that Christians have the true Gospel in their possession. The whole "your text has been corrupted" is an argument that developed after the quran's writing, because, well, everyone can see that the Gospel does not accept what they claim. That's why they feel compelled to go through the Bible to prove Islam all while knowing it doesn't, so they revert back to the corruption claim.
@@hermanwooster8944 ... I personally prefer not to touch the Quran. I tell them to stick to the Quran, and I will stick to the Bible. But, I understand that everyone has their own strategy when dealing with Muslims.
@@justinpontarelli4368 I fully respect that. I don't run towards reading other books. I only heard of the verse and it completely surprised me because it undercuts their claims that the text was corrupted some time back in the 1st-3rd centuries.
The problem with people who thinks the trinity is nonsensical is that they think God is limited.
Peter Griffin Joker
all cults-I don't understand how God could be 3 and 1, no matter how it can be explained to me.
all atheists-I don't understand how God could allow XYZ, no matter how it can be explained to me.
ppl in hell-I don't understand why I'm here, no matter how it can be explained to me.
Aren't we doing the same with the virgin birth?
@@TestifyApologetics another proof of trinity Genesis 1:26 " let us "
@@ФилипЂукићspeak for yourself, I believe in the immaculate conception AND the perpetual virginity of Mary ^^
When muslims say "the trinity was invented", I'd simply ask them why?
Like seriously, why would one invent something as confusing as the trinity to convince people to follow their religion?
You wouldn't want to convince someone by inventing something confusing, you'd make it simple to understand. It doesn't make sense strategically.
This whole "inventing stuff" seems to fit much more with islam, where simply telling people who do not understand the trinity that "god is one" is far more effective.
They’d certainly know a thing or two about religious invention, all I’m saying
I'm not saying I think this is true, but one argument in favour of the "trinity was invented" idea is: Maybe the idea of the trinity was invented to try to make all the various books of the Bible, which were written by different people at different times, seem like they fit together?
But idk, I'm not a Bible scholar or anything.
exactly
Simple, because they wanted to justify worshipping Jesus without being called polytheists.
@@eliasziad7864 in that case just say Jesus is the one god.
Jesus = 100% God, 100% Human
Amen!
Not even 100%, fully human and fully God because you can still go above 100%, 101%, 102%…
Referring to God, language and humanity is indescribable to the God of Abraham. More like the toppest version of infinity.
@@oscaradeaza1203 A better way to say it is that Jesus is truly man and truly God.
God and human have opposing values, like: Black vs White, Left vs Right, and so the Creator vs Creature.
You can't give 100% value to anything when it still has 1% the opposing values, so it would be more unreasonable if the opposite value is 100% either.
@@oscaradeaza1203 What?
"I don't understand the trinity, so it must be false"
Yea that’s called the Personal Incredulity Fallacy
@@eniolaelisery1503Also applies to the problem of evil, if you think about it. "I can't understand why God allows evil, therefore, he isn't real"
@@joshuaparsons887 The problem of evil is based on the idea that someone who is morally good would not allow evil to happen, as long as it is preventable. So objections to it usually focus on how evil was necessary. Unfortunately, because of the doctrine of the New Earth, it’s clear that God could have easily made a perfect world.
The problem arises because Israelites, Jews, and Christians have had different concepts of God. Since God can do anything, they had total freedom within the constraints of their own understanding of Him. But if we try to mash all of those ideas together, it’s inconsistent.
@@seanpierce9386 and why can't God have a good reason for allowing evil that's beyond our understanding?
@@joshuaparsons887 Because that’s a cop out and contradicts the doctrine of the New Earth. If God did have a good reason for allowing evil, He wouldn’t attempt to destroy it and replace Earth with a perfect world.
This is why I like how The Chosen brought up this issue a bit in Season One, with Nicodemus and Schmuel. Nicodemus was disagreeing with Schmuel and said that we can't just put God into a box of our own making. There are things about God that we will never understand or comprehend.
One of my favorites moments in the 1st season! 😁
I'm watching the show with a group once a week!
@@robertortiz-wilson1588 I can't wait for Season 5. Especially when they get into Jerusalem. I was at ChosenCon, and I'm not going to spoil anything, but all I'll say is that there definitely was a perk being there in person.
@@SockieTheSockPuppet wow! Nice!
Nicodemus was a good one
Remember, if God is easy to explain, that means our brains are bigger than God😊
A man trying to understand God is like a worm trying to understand a human.
@@bankruptwizard more like a grain of sand trying to understand the stars
@@psykol-1 Exactly
God is not the author of confusion. He gives wisdom to those who seek wisdom. He says who he is in scripture and never claims to be 3 persons, he always says he is ONE. Jesus is the only God.
@@J_RayDBL that doesn’t follow
Physicist/mathematician here. At 0:47 is essentially an algebraic statement. This is the nature of algebra you're describing. It's also the language of symmetry and symmetry transformations which is foundational to all of physics. Think in terms of Noether's theorem. If there is a symmetry, then there is a conserved quantity. As you transform between the elements of the symmetry, the essence of God is conserved. This is precisely to be one unity with distinct parts. I also think it's the best way to understand John 17:21.
I would welcome a mathematician's take on my avatar
Excellent point, however, unlike anything that we know, God is in three that are different, yet each one of Them is only one God, not parts of God, since being part of something means being a fraction of it, but when the Bible refers to the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit separately, it's always said "God", as if speaking of the same, yet they're treated as independent but at the same time as the same entity.
It's quite hard to understand, but hey, that's what one would expect from infinity, from God Almighty.
@@bizarrealtispinax2747 I constantly hear that the trinity is unique to Christianity but I have yet to hear a good argument for this. From what I've studied so far, the idea of a triune god or triad was explicitly found in greco-roman pantheons (Jupiter, Juno, and Minerva / Zeus, Hera, and Athena). The same attributes that people apply to the trinity is consistent with how those pagans looked at their trinities. Equal essence, authority, three persons in one godhead, each worshiped equally etc. It's also common among even older cultures like Assyria, Babylon, and India.
@quite3560 not to be mean but send source. this is a bold claim
@@quite3560 There's no real evidence to those so called "trinities". There's a difference between the Holy Trinity, which are three persons and one God, none is more God than the other, all three are equal and independent, but are one God alone, a compound unit, whereas the groupings you're talking about are different. I.e. there's the Ennead in the ancient Egyptian culture, which is a council of nine gods, I think Thoth and Osiris were included, I don't remember the rest. Same goes with pantheons in Greek and Roman mythologies, and other groups within the same religions. I also recall another group of eight Egyptian gods formed by frog and fish gods and goddesses, but I can't remember their names. Anyways, there's absolutely nothing that compares to what the Bible shows about the Trinity, and some stories that reassemble such concept as well as those to the story of Jesus, only began to appear after the New Covenant was written.
Blessings.
People who say the Trinity isn't make sense because hard to understand was just basically saying we can 100% understand God's nature and power, which telling our mind is same level or equal with God's mind
This baffles me, that some people are determined to confine our Creator to the physical limitations He used for man. The one true Elohim Creator God YHVH obviously far exceeds our form and nature.
It’s not necessarily that we are trying to understand 100% of God’s nature, however God does not confuse in his revelation and reveals himself in every instance as being one person. Jesus is God, that one man who is 100% man and 100% God manifest in the flesh.
Heresy for certain!
@@mroejacobs don't use analogy for the Trinity, because there are no perfect analogy to truly understanding Trinity
@@mroejacobs I’ll lift a prayer for you to be delivered of such tragic spiritual blindness.
I'm a simple man
I see Donnall and Connall
I like video
Come on, Patrick!
Another response to the "God uses singular pronouns" argument is that God also uses plural pronouns: eg. Gen 1:24 Let us make man in our image, Gen 11:7 Let us go down an confuse their language
Muslims will argue against this by saying that it is the "plural of majesty." If you hear this objection, inform them that there is no plural of majesty in Hebrew grammar at the time Genesis and whatnot were written. It's a tired old argument that Anthony Rogers has addressed over on his channel.
I really don't like this argument because the Divine Council theology makes much more sense imo. For people interested, you can look this up using 'The Unseen Realm' by Michael Heiser
@@futfan9092 I do still like it. "Let us make man in OUR image..." whose image are you made in? God's? Angels? The council's? The Bible answers: "In the image of God, he created them"
@@redschannel6527 That’s interpreting the verse in a modern Christian context rather than understanding what the authors originally intended. The Israelites were originally polytheistic, but as God became more and more exalted over time, gods became angels and demons. The Trinity reintroduces a polytheistic element, despite calling those entities the same being to fit with previous monotheistic theology. As a result, some of the earlier or less adapted Bible passages can be interpreted to fit in a Christian context.
@@seanpierce9386 The Israelites were not originally polytheistic. There is good evidence against this that can at least fight the possibility to a draw. That's interpreting the verse in a modern skeptical context rather than understanding what the authors originally intended.
My son is going through catechesis right now and your videos are perfect length and format for him to understand these topics. Keep up the good work sir.
As an Orthodox Christian, here's what we think about the Trinity:
First we have to make the distinction of the essence and energies. The essence is what God is, something we cannot fully understand and comprehend. God's energies is what God does, like love, justice etc. God's essence and God's energies are like 2 sides of the same coin, because both His essence His energies are God. Having gotten that out of the way, let's explain the Trinity. For anyone who doesn't know, Orthodox Christianity believes that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, unlike Catholics and Protestants, who believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. This is because the Son's procession is hypostatic, while the Holy Spirit's procession is energetic. So essentially, the Son is God in a human hypostasis, while the Holy Spirit is God's presence through his energies. This also means that the Holy Spirit could proceed from the Father through the Son, but not from the Son, as then it would make the Holy Spirit less God, which is not possible. With the Orthodox definition of the Trinity, understanding it becomes much more easier. Hope this helps!
Edit: made some corrections in regards to the proceeding of the Holy Spirit
interesting. i hadn't heard the part about the Spirit proceeding through the Son before.
so does the holy spirit have essence of god or is it only his energies?
@@DIOBrando-wl4xq God's essence and energies are interconnected and inseperable
@@DIOBrando-wl4xq All persons of the trinity share one divine essence, as said in the Nicene Creed.
I think what's to understand here is that the Spirit is as much of a person as the Father and the Son, and also that the Son is equal to the Father (He said that the Father was greater than Him because in that moment, He was limiting Himself from his Divine capabilities, just like Paul said in his letters). So, whether the Spirit comes from the Father or the Son, technically speaking, it wouldn't make any difference because of how all three are the same and equal.
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” Isa 9:6
Notice the singularity in the verse here. He is THE mighty God. He is THE everlasting father. The revelation of Jesus Christ to come is that HE (Jesus) is the father. They are not separated into multiple parts or persons if you will
I have to remember that one the next time someone does an Arianism
@@rh-tj7fx While Jesus Is God, He is NOT the same person as The Father. But, The Father and The Son are both God.
The Davidic King is called "God" in the Psalms, it's not literal
So, Jesus is the everlasting Father ?
The part of the doctrine of the Trinity that I get hung up on is this:
If Jesus is only the son, and he can't be the Father and the Holy Spirit, then why did the apostles primarily baptize in Jesus name after he told them specifically to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? Because it seems to me that the apostles were equating Jesus to the Father and the Spirit by making such a proclamation.
He is equal because they are all one God
read the Didache (Apostle document from 50-70 AD), essentially, they weren't baptizing in Jesus name as a baptismal formula, rather, it was to distinguish itself from John the Baptists' baptism. The apostles always baptized into the name of "The Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" according to 1st century history. Either full immersion or pouring 3 times.
@@prodigalsonposts I understand that it was to differentiate, but if what Luke wrote down was a direct quote from Peter, then what he said to the masses after the outpouring of the spirit seems a little conflicting. Because that's the first time that doctrine was spoken over the masses. If that was a shorthand way of writing it, then there is no reason it wasn't also what was spoken when baptizing. I just think it's not taking the word as plainly as it's been written, is all. And the term that's used for "baptism" at that time only referred to one type of baptism, which was being submerged in a bed of water, like a river.
In any case, it just seems misleading to say we know for a fact the apostles baptized without verbally speaking Jesus name when that's how it's documented most every time. And if they did that, then is it possible that they had a different understanding of Jesus than we do currently?
@@bctalicorn809 we know the way the apostles baptized because we have the Didache, from 70 AD. Apostolic document, and it says concerning baptism that one should either fully immerse or POUR 3 times - in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
The way I see it, and it may not be correct, is that "in the name of Father, Son , and Spirit" means "in the name of God"
God (Jehovah) in the Old testament is also known by his name with his character/attributes eg Jehovah-Rafa or Jehovah-Jirah meaning "God is my healer" and "God is my redeemer", ie they are acceptable names for him.
Since Jesus (Yehoshua) means "God is my salvation," it would be an equally valid name for the God described in the Old Testament
The Trinity can be a little difficult to grasp, but it's also what makes the most sense when we read the Scriptures. Like you said, numerous times in the Bible we see The Lord our God, the Lord is one. There is easily 1 God that can be seen in the text, but Yeshua (the Son) also calls himself God and was worshipped (something the angels have to blatantly tell people NOT to do). The Holy Spirit breathing through the writers, purifying, sanctifying, and dwelling in believers are "Godly" aspects/jobs so you can't call Him an angel. As well as Jesus proclaiming us to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That's personally what causes the Trinity to make sense for me.
5:03 i am former muslim , i'll explain that with monarchy
king of germany , france , england , sweden . think about 1 person hold thesee titles . this is how that works many titles 1 god
Doesn't explain anything, you can't explain something abstract fully with some titles, that could be possible
Austrian Painter, Fuhrer, Counselor of Germany 😂😂 are also all one person
@@samppakoivula9977just did ^
if youre ex muslim then answer:
how many raakats in wudu
@@urnormalnutshellanimator6606 How many rakats in aisha? 🤓
Even if the trinity were true, Jesus never preached it outright, nor emphasized its importance. What he DID preach is how we should act and treat each other, and to have faith in him. Believing in this 3rd century catholic doctrine created by Greek philosophers is not necessary to Christianity, nor does it gatekeep anyone from following christ. Just have faith and keep his commandments
This was one of the most confusing topics of the Bible. Thank you for making it so clear! (im talking mostly on the heresies which were the questions I had)
Another one of the hundreds already in the comments that makes the title of this video misleading...
1.) It isn't logical.
2.) It isn't Biblical.
If you need some source OUTSIDE the Bible to "explain" it to you, then there's a problem.
Trinity = God + God's Word + God's Spirit! = 1 God
Tauhid = Allah + 2 eternal uncreated eternal things (partners (Word of Allah and spirit of Allah) next to the Islam book god! = 3 gods
The Word is even the creator according to the book of Islam = a second creator god who exists forever!
@@2besavedcom-7 you are wrong
@@elbron7595 - About which?
1.) the hundreds of comments in this video alone (and almost every Christian I've met) are proof that it's NOT logical in that no one seems to understand it.
2.) The Trinity creation always need an OUTSIDE source other than Scripture to explain it (hence this video).
Every scholar admits that the "comma johanneum" is an ADDED text, so other than that, there's little evidence of a Trinity unless you read it INTO (eisegesis) the Text.
@@2besavedcom-7 1) Plenty of people seem to understand it and you are just saying that to appear "right" in your head. Please stop lying to yourself, understanding the trinity doesn't mean we can comprehend it, just like we can't comprehend God's eternalness or omipotence etc.
2) The trinity does not need an outside source and even if it does, that doesn't mean it isn't true. To interpret the Bible correctly at all requires outside sources due to different cultural, historical, and political differences and contexts at the times each book was written. This is why we look to the church fathers, church history, Apostolic tradition, and recorded history to better understand each situation and book.
BASED Trinitarian Orthodoxy
hi, why orthodoxy? why sects at all?
@@medameg orthodox in a doctrinal sense, not a in a denominational sense
@@Thatoneguy-pu8ty thanks for the new vocab, orthodoxy as in default christianity, got it
@@medameg not a problem have a nice day
John 17:3 talks about the importance of knowing the one true God. The idea that God would not only be unknowable (as shown by the video's mentioning of the incomprehensibility of the Trinity) but that belief in the Trinity is necessary to be considered a Christian is completely unbiblical and asinine.
Let's look at John 17:20-24 as a simple example of the false nature of the Trinitarian doctrine. In these verses, Christ is offering his prayer to the Father on behalf of those who believe on Him, praying that they "may be one, even as [He and the Father] are one." If the oneness between the Father and the Son is a oneness of essence or substance, wherein they are of one essence but merely divided into three different persons, then wouldn't this essentially mean that Christ is praying that His followers also become God by sharing in this oneness which he already shares with the Father? Not even that His followers become gods but that they literally become God, just as He is supposedly God in the Trinitarian sense? Common sense would obviously tell any rational person no, but Trinitarian Christians are essentially trapped by this verse (especially since many of them erroneously believe that it is inherently sinful to want to be like God, ignorantly citing the creation story and Lucifer's temptation of Eve to do so).
Whereas these verses contradict the Trinitarian conception of the oneness of God, they are entirely consistent with the Latter-day Saint conception of the oneness of God. The video's creator erroneously stated that Latter-day Saints are polytheistic (by the way, the Bible could technically be just as easily considered polytheistic, e.g. Psalms 82:1 and Psalms 97:9, but that's sort of a different conversation). By contrast, I will rightly assert that Latter-day Saints are NOT polytheistic and rather worship one God/Lord; we simply believe that this oneness of God is defined differently from the Trinitarian conception of God's oneness. Rather than believing that God is "one essence in three persons," whatever that means, Latter-day Saints understand that the oneness between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is a perfect unification of their love, will, and purpose. They are therefore three distinct beings who can be worshipped (monotheistically, arguably) as one God. With this conception of oneness, John 17:20-24 makes perfect sense. Christ is praying that his followers may be united in their love, will, and purpose, as He is already united with the Father in that same sense. How beautiful, actually. All of the other verses proclaiming Christ's oneness with the Father throughout the scriptures also fit into this framework.
No, the Bible is not Trinitarian. The Trinity was a false doctrine constructed long after Christ's mortal ministry that was intended as a means by which Christianity could be reconciled with Platanist theistic philosophy. Many who believe in the Trinity are commendable for desiring to do so in order to worship God in all of His glory, but they are misguided in doing so. And then, many others will condemn the worshippers and followers of Christ for being destined to burn in hell forever just because they don't believe in this clearly unbiblical, incomprehensible, man-made, false doctrine. This sort of idea is a great example of one of the many ways that many Christians "draw near unto [God] with their ears, but their hearts are far from [Him]." No, Latter-day Saints are not polytheists. Yes, Latter-day Saints are Christians (who DO believe in a different Jesus from many Christians, admittedly, because we believe in the BIBLICAL Jesus instead of some man-made Trinitarian Jesus). No, disbelief in the Trinity will not condemn people to hell. I'd like to understand the perspective of Christian content creators like this guy but it's kind of difficult to do so when he hurls such bad-faith straw mans at the Restored Gospel. At least criticize us for what we actually believe if you're going to criticize us.
The trinity is never biblically explained. Christ never explained himself to be apart of a tri personal being
Luke 24:19
“What things?” he asked. “About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people.
Jesusohn 6:14
After the people saw the sign Jesus performed, they began to say, “Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world.”
Matthew 21:10-11
When Jesus entered Jesuserusalem, the whole city was stirred and asked, “Who is this?”
The crowds answered, “This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee.”
The 1 + 1 + 1 = 1 argument never fails to make me laugh 😭😭
I just hit them back with the 1×1×1=1. As they're all one God, it's multiplying by itself. God cubed if you will. The math doesn't perfectly align with the theology but it does a good job.
@@wes4736 Yeah I use that as well, all their arguments are so simpleminded
@@wes4736 the 1x1x1 doesnt make sesne, use this argument:
Water has 3 states= Solid, Liquid and Gas, all of them are water, and even when you split them apart, they are all still individually water
@@darrionighodaro7914the 1x1x1 doesnt make sesne, use this argument:
Water has 3 states= Solid, Liquid and Gas, all of them are water, and even when you split them apart, they are all still individually water.
@@Astraic100that’s MODALISM, Patrick!
I am so excited for the new video's where the trinity is in the Old Testament. Keep the work going man👍
Was thinking the same thing.
Sam Shamoun has some excellent lectures online showing the trinity in scripture from Genesis to Revelation.
It is not. The end.
well keep waiting because it's not there! lol
It’s not in the Old Testament. Every instance of God’s revelation of his character and nature to man is of one being, not of 3 beings in heaven. And Jesus fulfills that 100%
Recently I watch a lot of videos from Bible translators and I’ve heard angels were rejected in the past until monotheism became more solid and they became actual servants of God. Therefore - maybe Trinity could not be fully revealed in the past because it may cause worshipping each person separately? Anyway, as some people say: “If you think you truly understand God, it means you misunderstand him completely.”
The trinity is real👍
No the Trinity is a lie, just like Mormonism, Jehovah witnesses, and Muslims. It's not in scripture scripture teaches our God manifested in flesh to reconcile the world to himself Jesus is the fullness of God, the express Person, the visible image of the invisible, and the Alpha and Omega.
real false garbage
Only in your imagination. Mark 12.28-32, John 17.3, John 20.17, Rev 1.5-6, Rev 3.12.
@micheledicecioc Deuteronomy 6:4, Isaiah 9:6 Isaiah 43:10-11 Acts 4:11-12, Luke 24:47, Acts 2:38 Collosians 1:15-19, Collosians 2:9, Revelation 1:8 Revelation 1:18. Jesus is Yahweh, not a separate person. He is the Only God.
@@JoshD8705 i know, in fact i said that the Trinity is real👍
Deuteronomy 6:4 "Listen Israel, the LORD our God is ONE". Hmmm, it didn't say three.
Progressive revelation indoctrination!
"Do not add to the word which I command you, nor diminish from it, to observe the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you." Deuteronomy 4:2
3:58 The word "Your" can be used as plurality. Supposedly that's one of the main reasons the Bible sometimes uses the informal "Thou/Thy" because another major difference between them beside formality is that "Thou/Thy" can only ever be singular, whereas "You/Your" can be singular or pluralasized. So if that statement was meant to be read as singular, in some translations it would be be read as "Israel, put thine hope in the Lord" but it's plural, meaning the people of Israel, so "Your" is proper grammer.
I'm not sure if I would say the Trinity is a salvation-level issue (happy to be proven wrong). But you do at least have to accept the sufficiency of Christ's death and resurrection to redeem us from sin.
EDIT: Ok, thanks for the many responses. I will have a think about them.. To be clear, I myself believe in the Trinity.
I would say it is because it’s clearly God and to deny it is to deny God
Yeah sure thing buddy, having the wrong God is totally not a salvation-level issue
Basically, the trinity just explains how Jesus can both be God and the son of God. So if you dont belive it, you dont belive Jesus is God
You can't accept Christ's sacrifice unless you acknowledge He is God.
It is a salvation level issue for those capable of adult rational function claiming to believe in Christ.
Without believing in the trinity, you fall to one of many heretical ideaologies that lead you to a different god.
Out of curiosity, what do you believe?
You havent explained how the trinity is logical at all.
All you have done is incorrectly dropped the "s" when you say that these 3 different entities are all gods.
You have to mask your mind and be dumb then you understand.
The problem people have with understanding the Trinity, is that they keep trying to apply human and physical constraints to God who is above such things.
There is no such thing as trinity in Scripture *at all.* It is a philosophical concept (not a teaching) pushed on the Scriptures by mainly *abusing* the Gospel of John. The Israelites were no trinitarians and neither were Jesus Christ and the Apostles. They worshipped one God >>> The Father!
Can you prove me wrong from the Scriptures?
The problem with the holy spirit is its mentioned like 5 times and capitalized like only once. If it was coeternal and coequal it would be capitalized
@@JudeOne3Four And they also worshipped Jesus Christ. I won't use the Gospel of John for this one.
Matthew 3:13-17 - in the Baptism of Christ, there are obviously three persons. Those three persons are described as God, time and time again.
@@RMCbreezy Those are modern Bibles. Capitalization, if I'm not mistaken, didn't even exist back when the original manuscripts were being written in Hebrew.
Apparently your god is beyond logical consistency.
I freely admit, even to my Sunday School students, that I don't completely understand the Trinity. It still exists though, and actually fits with God being bigger than my brain
Hey, I've been majorly addicted to these vids and they've taught me a lot! Could you do some covering the Talmud perchance?
what specifically in the Talmud do you want covered?
The subject of the Trinity gives me the very novel experience of hearing someone speak a sentence in words that are entirely in English, with proper English grammar and sentence structure, and still feel like I heard a sentence in some ancient dialect of Chinese. I can't even say what I don't understand because I don't even understand it enough to explain what I don't understand about it. Short-circuits my brain entirely.
I guess all stupid people are doomed to go to Hell :c
There are a lot of misconceptions made about the Bible that the general public has believed for many years. For example, the 4 horseman of the apocalypse.
People wrongly believe that they are "Pestilence", War, Famine, and Death.
This is, however, factually incorrect. Simply look at the verses, specifically this one:
"And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."
Does that SOUND like Pestilence? Where is the mention of spreading disease and sickness? There isn't one. Will there be any disease? Yes. Is there a horseman for it? No.
Now let's think about this verse for a second. This horseman is "given a crown" like he is a false king, and sets out to conquer the world.
Sounds a lot to me like it's false Religion, NOT Pestilence.
Never forget that the Council of Nicea chose what was, and wasn't, allowed in the Bible, and that that was long after the Messiah had returned to Heaven. And He said that there would be wolves in the Church. We already have examples of this. There are whole Churches doing things God said not to do. These "pride" flags being allowed to wave on Church buildings is enough to make me sick.
People need to stop studying ABOUT the Bible, and need to start studying the Bible itself.
Reading one guy's book about his thoughts on the Bible is not the same as reading it itself.
May the Messiah show you all the way to Him. Have a great day.
I have never understood the trinity but I do enjoy a YT video that tries to explain it.
Another one of the hundreds already in the comments that makes the title of this video misleading...
1.) It isn't logical.
2.) It isn't Biblical.
If you need some source OUTSIDE the Bible to "explain" it to you, then there's a problem.
@@2besavedcom-7 YT will not allow me to say what I want in response to you.
So I’ll just leave it at this: people like you legitimize the hate the Christian community receives
How can the trinity not be biblical, but the need for a non-biblical explanation be problematic? Do you even speak English?
@@itself227 - Been to Bible College, learned the ancient languages, spent the last 35 years perfecting my translation skills and undoing the nonsense taught by Christianity.
It has been said that one probably couldn't fit one more wafer of paganism into Christianity so Christianity brings the derision upon itself.
Come out from the "Mother of Whores."
Its not logical in the human sense sure, thats why God is omnipotent and divine, He can do whatever He wants.
Now, its 100% biblical, Father is God its obvious, then Jesus being God is slightly less obvious, but its there, for example he actively accepts worship as God when Thomas touches His wounds. You dont need outside references to show the holy trinity, just read the Bible, the concept is there
@@newme1589 what about the Holy Ghost? Why would that be a separate thing?
1 + 1 + 1 = 1 is wrong.
Infinite + Infinite + Infinite = Infinite is correct.
@@maylingng4107 Someone needs to give you a cookie as you just realize the limitations of math. But if you are going to use math then that is the best answer.
“As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.” - Albert Einstein
@@maylingng4107 No one understands quantum mechanics as there are 10 different theories and every one of them are weird.
"Not only is the Universe stranger than we think, it is stranger than we can think." -Werner Heisenberg
"The reality we can put into words is never reality itself." -Werner Heisenberg.
@@maylingng4107
You must approach the concept that the Father = God, the Son = God, and the Holy Spirit = God. I am also aware that the idea of infinite + infinite + infinite = infinite can hold true or not depending on certain conditions. There is a reason why the equation I mentioned holds true. Considering the characteristics of God presented earlier, each of the three infinities can be described as uncountable infinities. If the three infinities are the same uncountable infinity, then the equation I mentioned is valid.
@@maylingng4107 yeah but the higher orders of infinity cannot be reached through successive additions. The only way you get the higher infinities is through exponents or power sets
John 3:16. God sent his son. Does not say God came down
Understanding the Trinity in real life is like having one family where you have the father, the mother and a child. They have different roles and distinct people but they are in unity in one family. You cannot say a father equals to one family; a mother equals to one family; a child equals to one family in total of 3 families.
Careful, this is modalism and/or partialism ... Watch more vids to help sort it out...
@@liamdoyle2828 I can use plenty of examples in daily life not just this one to understand the Trinity. Don't worry about it.
@@supermaxy2649 yeah... Ice, water, steam - modalism
Three leaf clover, partialism
Different roles that people have (son, father, brother) - modalism
Just about all examples fall into a heretical camp - maybe, just maybe, God is leading you through all that, as most of us have to at some point or another - just see how each example is inadequate, it helps move us towards truth.
Blessings
John 17:3 talks about the importance of knowing the one true God. The idea that God would not only be unknowable (as shown by the video's mentioning of the incomprehensibility of the Trinity) but that belief in the Trinity is necessary to be considered a Christian is completely unbiblical and asinine.
Let's look at John 17:20-24 as a simple example of the false nature of the Trinitarian doctrine. In these verses, Christ is offering his prayer to the Father on behalf of those who believe on Him, praying that they "may be one, even as [He and the Father] are one." If the oneness between the Father and the Son is a oneness of essence or substance, wherein they are of one essence but merely divided into three different persons, then wouldn't this essentially mean that Christ is praying that His followers also become God by sharing in this oneness which he already shares with the Father? Not even that His followers become gods but that they literally become God, just as He is supposedly God in the Trinitarian sense? Common sense would obviously tell any rational person no, but Trinitarian Christians are essentially trapped by this verse (especially since many of them erroneously believe that it is inherently sinful to want to be like God, ignorantly citing the creation story and Lucifer's temptation of Eve to do so).
Whereas these verses contradict the Trinitarian conception of the oneness of God, they are entirely consistent with the Latter-day Saint conception of the oneness of God. The video's creator erroneously stated that Latter-day Saints are polytheistic (by the way, the Bible could technically be just as easily considered polytheistic, e.g. Psalms 82:1 and Psalms 97:9, but that's sort of a different conversation). By contrast, I will rightly assert that Latter-day Saints are NOT polytheistic and rather worship one God/Lord; we simply believe that this oneness of God is defined differently from the Trinitarian conception of God's oneness. Rather than believing that God is "one essence in three persons," whatever that means, Latter-day Saints understand that the oneness between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is a perfect unification of their love, will, and purpose. They are therefore three distinct beings who can be worshipped (monotheistically, arguably) as one God. With this conception of oneness, John 17:20-24 makes perfect sense. Christ is praying that his followers may be united in their love, will, and purpose, as He is already united with the Father in that same sense. How beautiful, actually. All of the other verses proclaiming Christ's oneness with the Father throughout the scriptures also fit into this framework.
No, the Bible is not Trinitarian. The Trinity was a false doctrine constructed long after Christ's mortal ministry that was intended as a means by which Christianity could be reconciled with Platanist theistic philosophy. Many who believe in the Trinity are commendable for desiring to do so in order to worship God in all of His glory, but they are misguided in doing so. And then, many others will condemn the worshippers and followers of Christ for being destined to burn in hell forever just because they don't believe in this clearly unbiblical, incomprehensible, man-made, false doctrine. This sort of idea is a great example of one of the many ways that many Christians "draw near unto [God] with their ears, but their hearts are far from [Him]." No, Latter-day Saints are not polytheists. Yes, Latter-day Saints are Christians (who DO believe in a different Jesus from many Christians, admittedly, because we believe in the BIBLICAL Jesus instead of some man-made Trinitarian Jesus). No, disbelief in the Trinity will not condemn people to hell. I'd like to understand the perspective of Christian content creators like this guy but it's kind of difficult to do so when he hurls such bad-faith straw mans at the Restored Gospel. At least criticize us for what we actually believe if you're going to criticize us.
My conclusion from this video.
"Blind faith is the only way to understand the Trinity"
.... okay
you'd be wrong. I can understand the Trinity with the essence / hypostasis distinction, understanding the meaning of consubstantial, + understanding the 5 notions of the Trinity. Zero blind faith.
@@prodigalsonposts teach me ❤
Another one of the hundreds already in the comments that makes the title of this video misleading...
1.) It isn't logical.
2.) It isn't Biblical.
If you need some source OUTSIDE the Bible to "explain" it to you, then there's a problem.
@@2besavedcom-7
1. t is logical. What law of logic does it break?
2. It is biblical. Also, no other view is coherent.
3. The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God.
4. The Father and Son have personal relation throughout the New Testament.
5. If they have personal relation they can’t be one person with different modes, that’s illogical, and makes the nature of God schizophrenic
I always felt like the trinity in the bible was simple: God (the father of jesus), Jesus the son of God, and God’s spirit. Jesus and The Holy Spirit proceeds and came both from God, and are inherently God as well while still being Separate persons. Monarchical Trinitarian
And they are the set of authority to follow. Look how Jesus follows the Father's will, we should also reflect from him and follow him through Faith to be with God.
Something being complicated does not mean it is not true.
Often truth is very complex.
Only lies can always be simple.
The Trinity is very comprehendible and easy to understand specially through analogies I do not know why you guys make it seem like a big topic but I don't think it's really true I mean the god in Christianity is not really a god worthy of worship for example he gave babies cancer and women cramps because eve decided to eat from an Apple tree that he knew she would eat from Yahweh also have done a lot of terrible things he reflects more of a human nature than that of a Divine being worthy of worship I am sorry I'm not trying to disrespect Christianity but I don't think it's really logical to worship session evil God there is no difference between the God in Islam or Judaism or Christianity they're all very bad people
Untrue...lies can be confusing...and the truth is simple.
@@W8RIT1
If truth is simple then give me the proof to Goedel's incompleteness theorem in a single sentence, no longer than ten words.
@@Unitedsteaks.
You are wrong on every step here pal.
1. The trinity cannot be understood thru analogies, as trinity is a mystery.
2. God is worthy of worship, because he created us, and gave us the world.
3. "There are bad things in the world as consequence of sin! THAT IS UNFAIR" - this is very childish view of the world. First off even if adam and eve were the ones who sinned, look at the humanity afterwards - they killer, murdered, pillaged, started wars. And we continue to this day to do it. We did not stop being evil. And most people do not do anything to stop all the evil that is hapening in the world, they are actively aiding it.
4. If a baby dies due to cancer, but would commit no sin, it dies sinless, so it is a merciful end. But it is a trial for those who do still live. You are one of those people, for whom this is a trial, and you failed it. God is the only person who has the right of rule over life and death of any person. Maybe the baby that died, would be a second Hhitler, maybe second Einstein, it does not matter.
When God takes a life, he has authority to do so, so saying that it is evil, is like saying that judge putting someone in jail for their crime is evil. God has authority to do so, so it is his prerogative.
If you really cared about the life of the children with cancer, you would either pray for them, or become a doctor, and try to find a cure for cancer. You don't. You just use this as an argument to cover up your misdeeds.
Trinity is 3 in 1 there's Alot of things that are 3 in 1 you can use as an analogy and also God knew those humans he created will kill and start wars but created them anyways that's on him not on us lol
Uneducated protestant here. I still really don't understand. 1. Who specifically is the holy spirit, what do they look like? 2. Why isn't there any explicit mention of God being three persons in the Bible if this is the case? 3. Again, why did Jesus pray to God (the Father and the Holy Spirit I guess) for anything, if he is 100% God and can do anything those two can?
All the answers are biblically given by the authors.
Let me briefly mention it.
1) holy spirit is the third person of the Godhead. Means he is not a power or some energy like many believe it. And he is not a robot. Because if you read the scripture you will know the holy spirit has emotions.
2) There are mentions of God being three persons. And there are verses where it says clearly that God is two persons.
Such as genesis 19:24.
3) well prayer is a communication. And jesus is not in the same state as he was before he became a man. So now he has to communicate though the prayer.
And he is not the father and the son thats why he is praying to them. We can also find apostles praying to the spirit of the God.
We can also find the father praying to jesus in Hebrews 1:8-12.
Pls pray for me
God also referred to himself to with multi pronouns too, all the back in Genesis.
Fun fact, Allah also says "We" in the qur'an, but he is just one ... Interesting.
The Three Christian School of thoughts Calvinism, Arminianism, & Molinism disagree on the concept of the trinity ? Orthodox Catholic and Protestant also disagree on the concept of the trinity ? Orthodox say that the father and the son has one nature and one will and the Holy Spirit proceed from the father alone. Catholic and Protestant say the father and the son have two different natures and two different will and the Holy Spirit proceed from the father and the son . The Maronites said the father and the son has two different natures and one will ? Which one is the correct concept of the trinity according to the Bible ? It clarifies the creed that was formulated at the Council of Nicaea in 325. A minority of Christian sects reject the Trinity and consider it not mentioned in the sacred texts Questions for trinitarian about the trinity :
1) in the trinity you say the father and the son are fully equal to the one another. The son is begotten but the father is unbegotten can you say that the father is begotten like the son ?
2) if the trinity is 3 persons is the trinity identical to the 3 persons ?
3) In the trinity Does the father know that he is the father ? Does the son know that he is the son ? does the father know that he is the son ? Does the son know that he is the father?
4) Does the father know that he has Human nature and does the son know that he has divine nature ? if he answer no that means they don’t have the same knowledge
5) In the trinity the three persons in god are they dependent on each others or independent of each others?
6) If the father is one with the son why he come always first in the trinity ?
7) If the three persons in the trinity are one can we replace them with one another can the son be the 1st then the spirit the 2nd then the father the 3rd ?
8) Is Jesus in the Godhead or would you say the Godhead is in Jesus ? if he answer one of them that means we have 2 Gods in the Godhead but if he If he answer both of them we ask how can someone be in the Godhead and also the Godhead be in them at the same time ?
9) John 4:24 God is Spirit is that spirit referring to the whole trinity or to the father or the son or the Holy Spirit ? if he answer to the father it means we have 2 spirits the Holy spirit and the father spirit but if he said refer to the trinity it means we have 3 spirits in the trinity
10) Do you see the father son and the holy spirit as three different names of three persons or do you see the father son and Holy spirit as describing one name of one God if so what is the one name that it’s describing ? If he answer the one name of the one God we ask him what is the one name ?
11) Will we see the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit in heaven?
12) Was Jesus Unitarian or trinitarian ? Why ?
13) in the trinity you say the father and the son are fully equal to one another. The son is begotten but the father is unbegotten can you say that the father is begotten like the son ?
14) John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (Jesus said explicitly the father is the only true God,How many person is the father ? is he one person or three person when Jesus said he is the only TRUE God ?
15) Is the trinity one identity or three identities?
16) In the trinity do you believe in one self or three selves?
17) Is the attribute of life a Divine or human characteristic?
18) Does the father need the son to exist or does the son need the father to exist ? Does the father need the son for existence or Does the son need the father for existence or and why?
19) in the trinity you say the father and the son are fully equal to one another. The father is the one who sent the son can we say the son is the one who sent the Father because they are fully equal to one another ?
Physicists will disagree with the concept of quantum physics but they don't deny the quantum level is real. It's just very hard to understand the quantum level since atoms do not act like machines at all. There 10 different theories of quantum mechanics and every single one of them are weird.
"Not only is the Universe stranger than we think, it is stranger than we can think." -Werner Heisenberg
@@1541965not our problem you are a illiterate Suicide bomber Abdool 🐷🐖 second The council of nicea had nothing to do with the trinity it was againist Arian Hersey rejected his divinity the Hebrew and greek bible literally finished 150 years before the council itself genius
Love the Hijab 'You're finished!' all quiet hidden in the background audio in this video. Not time stamping so people try and find that little Easter egg.
You should cover old testament trinitarianism more
I have two videos coming up on that very topic
@@TestifyApologetics good boy 😂
I've been studying old testament trinitarianism for a while now. Such as Malachi saying the Lord will send the Lord.
Jewish Rabbi Scholars and Theologian said Christian corrupted the Jewish Tankh by add delete and change to impose Jesus and trinity on the Jew. You can't find trinity in the New Testament so how could you find it in the Old Testament.
@@noahtylerpritchett2682 Show me where did Malachi said in the Hebrew Jewish Tanakh the Lord will send the Lord means trinity?
@@1541965 how does a person send a person instead of thyself? What is that? Schizophrenic third person speak?
Malachi: 3:1
“I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. (Interjection from Noah, that's John the Baptist) Then suddenly the Lord (Noah interjection, God the son) you are seeking will come to *his* temple; *my* (interjection)messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD (God the father) Almighty.
God refers to a he messenger he calls the Lord and a my referring to the self. That gives me multi persons vibes. As my interjections give context.
"“I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; my messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD Almighty."
Heavenly Father hear my prayers. Give me courage. As a single mother, raising not one but two children on the spectrum I am overwhelmed and I’m constantly struggling to pay bills. Struggling to buy groceries, struggling to do it all. I want to give up however faith is all I have left and faith is all I need. FATHER GIVE ME STRENGTH.
Yes correct, it is always the Father (one person) and never the TRI-nity, ever!
Phil 2:9 Wherefore God also *hath highly* EXALTED HIM, and GIVEN HIM *a name which is above every name:* 10 That at the name of Jesus *every knee* should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue *should confess* that Jesus *Christ* is Lord, TO *the glory* OF >>> *God the Father.*
Trinity is not Logical though, God is not created, Sons are always created by Fathers. This means is logically impossible for both the Father and Son to exist co eternally in to the past. or for the son to be "uncreated"
@@aaronstately Saying “God the Son” and “God the Father” is not the same as me saying that I am my earthly father’s son. Christ is uncreated and is fully God. The Father is uncreated and is fully God. The Son is not less than the Father. These words are used for the benefit of man, as we truly cannot comprehend the structure of The Lord God Almighty.
@@burningscales but it is the same, because its the analogy given so we can understand. thats how good analogy's work. If a divine son is Different than a Human Son then the whole point of having your son be sacrificed is lost, as we can not understand it, and its relevance is lost. we relate to Abraham when he trys to sacrifice Isaac because he only has one... and so on and so forth.
Give the Athanasian Creed a read if you want to learn more about the Trinity of God and the two natures of Jesus Christ.
The Bible doesn't support the doctrine and nothing Jewish about the trinity. It comes from paganism. Let's go with the Christian argument.
So if Jesus is God why would he say these things?
Jesus states only the Father is God
John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
Jesus asks why his God abandoned him
Matthew 27:46 "At about three o'clock Jesus shouted with a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" that is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Mark 15:34 "At the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, “ELOI, ELOI, LEMA SABAKTANEI?” which is translated, “MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?”"
Jesus tells his disciples that he would be going to their God and his God
John 20:17 "Jesus *said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’”
If Jesus in heaven as God now. Why would God claim to have a God?
In Revelation Jesus states he hadn't found his followers deeds completed in the sight of his God.
Revelation 3:2 "‘Be constantly alert, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God."
Jesus states the one who overcomes he would make a pillar in the temple of his God.
Revelation 3:12 "‘The one who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name."
Luke 24:19
“What things?” he asked. “About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people.
Jesusohn 6:14
After the people saw the sign Jesus performed, they began to say, “Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world.”
Matthew 21:10-11
When Jesus entered Jesuserusalem, the whole city was stirred and asked, “Who is this?”
The crowds answered, “This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee.”
@@Drmyd836
Luke 6:12 "Now it was at this time that He went off to the mountain to pray, and He spent the whole night in prayer with God."
It's interesting that a theology that didn't exist at the time of Jesus and slowly developed between 200 and 500 C.E. is considered biblical and a foundation to modern Christianity.
Hey brother, I'm feeling really confused. For nearly two months, I've been searching for the truth about Islam and Christianity. I've watched several of your videos that resonate with me, as well as some from other Muslims that also make sense. Could you please make a video explaining why Christianity is the only true path and provide some proof? I'm currently a Muslim and considering converting to Christianity.
Thanks in advance!
It would be easier to help you work out where you stand if you gave some details about what arguments you are considering.
When it comes to why Christianity should be considered the only true path, the main reason for saying that is because it's what Jesus claimed. One example of this would be John 14:6 "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." All four gospels have multiple instances where Jesus claims to be divine. And the resurrection is a pretty good demonstration that he was telling the truth.
The most important differences between Islam and Christianity are their different views of Jesus. Christians believe that Jesus was the person his first generation of followers unanimously agreed him to be, and point to the texts they wrote as evidence. Muslims believe that Jesus was not this person, and instead trust the claims of a man six centuries removed from the events. Who claimed to have received his revelation from an angel, rather than from eyewitnesses. There are numerous reasons not to trust this later claimed revelation, some of it instances where the Quran very obviously gets its facts wrong and some of it being what the Hadith and other early Islamic literature say about Mohammed himself.
"why Christianity is the only true path and provide some proof? I'm currently a Muslim and considering converting to Christianity."
I was a Christian for 15 years before becoming a Muslim. I know you didn't ask me, and you're free to make your choices in life, but why would you convert to Christianity, a religion that can't even explain who or what God is?
Christians believe God became a man, Jesus, and that Jesus (God) died on the cross. At the same time, they'll say God never died because God is immortal and everlasting. So they have a God who died and a God who did not, but somehow there's still one God. Does any of this make sense to you?
@@stephengray1344 "When it comes to why Christianity should be considered the only true path, the main reason for saying that is because it's what Jesus claimed. One example of this would be John 14:6 "I am the way and the truth and the life..."
So the reason why Christianity is true is because the Christian scriptures say it's true?
@@theologyroom Please don't strawman my comments. I was pointing out that Jesus claimed that following him was the only way to God. This leaves us with two possibilities. Either Christianity is true and it is the only way to God, or Christianity is false, and nothing that Jesus said tells us anything about God.
The problem is that most, especially Muslim apologists, assume that a person is a substance.
I love this monarchia of the father/non-filioque image you've used!
☦️🙏
I almost went more into Monarchianism but didn't. Definitely the superior Trinity model
@@TestifyApologetics I'd love to see you converse with some Orthodox apologists and scholars!
Btw when quran said christians worship mary as a person of trinity he said that catholics are those ones. As a catholic myself I still laugh when I think about it.
Also, LORD comes from the Hebrew word "Adonai," which, translated as literally as possible, means "Masters." Also, in Hebrew, you need at least 3 of something to be plural.
No man, Modern Hebrew is a new invented language by the Pharisees. They even call it a magical language. On top of that, all the names of your god >> adonai, elohim, I am, yahweh ect come from the Kabbalah tree of life. This is nothing but Jewish mysticism called the Kabbalah! 👉*Table of Divine Names Associated with the Ten Sephiroth*
Didn't Jesus warn you against the Pharisees? Yes, He did. And now "christians" are spreading Jewish mysticism without even knowing it. That is the reason why they gave us their corrupted version of the OT. This is what the "Rabbi's" call >> The Judaization of Christianity!!
The early Christians read the Septuagint OT in Greek from 285 BC and not the corrupted Masoretic Text from 1000 AD!!!
Adonai translates to Lord or Master both in singular form... not plural
No one expects the Minha Inquisition!
this was actually pretty good
I have a few questions from the perspective of a LDS and I'm just tryna learn,
1. If God said we're created after his own image (Genesis 1:26-27), would we not have attributes similar to the trinity?
2. In John 10:30 when Jesus says he is one with God and the Jews start stoning him for blasphemy, he says "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" Is Christ implying that we can also reach godhood through him? I know that's often seen has a blasphemous take but is this what Christ is saying?
3. As far as pointing out verses where people become one like with Adam and Eve, in 1 Corinthians 6:17, Paul writes that "He that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit." This implies that we can achieve this "oneness" as well? Does this mean there doesn't have to be a "God" that binds these 3 beings, but instead they could be totally separate entities united in purpose?
Finally just to add onto that third question, Jesus says in John 14:10 (and in a few other verses) that "the Father is in me" (once again implying that they are separate entities like you said in the video). However, he then says in John 14:17 (and a few other verses) that the "spirit dwelleth in us", but as far as I know most Christians don't believe that we have any "Trinitarian" attributes, even though God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit can "dwell in us" just as they are "in each other".
Can someone with a better understanding help answer these questions, especially the 3rd one, thanks.
So many are deceived. John 17:3 and 1 Corinthians 8:6 disprove the trinity CLEARLY.
If you are a Christian, what branch, denomination or whatever you wanna call it are you?
I’m asking because I don’t believe in the trinity either
@@itself227 I don’t have a church currently. I left my church because they do not stand on the word of God (not specifically talking about the trinity but yes they did believe that).
I don’t know any Christian churches that do not believe in the trinity but just believe scripture. Remember let all men be liars but God be true.
Also remember how many times we are taught in scripture that many will be deceived and the traditions of men etc.
@@gregory7406 well said. So do you subscribe to Arianism or do you mind elaborating on what you think the relationship between God and Jesus is?
@@itself227I believe in one God, the Father, YWHW. His literal Son Christ Jesus is the only way to know God. Jesus was begotten and had a beginning, but no end. He existed before the world was with God. Everything in our reality is created by God through Jesus Christ. Before the world was, He was a spirit, the Word of God. He manifested as a human once earth and now is in heaven with the Father on His right hand, also a spirit. That is what scripture teaches if you don’t read any tradition or doctrines of men into it.
@@gregory7406 thank you sir. Can I ask you to also explain the Holy Spirit?
Mind, Word, Breath. The Mind thinks the Word and then speaks it upon the Breath. It's that easy. Three parts of the One Being.
Then are we also triune beings? In hebrew the word for breath/wind/spirit is the same "roo'ach", word the word for mind and soul in greek in the bible is Pneuma and the word for Word in greek is "logos" and as humans we have a mind, spirit and speach which have the power of life and death in them...I'm not here to lead you astray but it's an interesting thought.
However I am not saying that we are God, for there is only one God Isaiah 45:5 " I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me-"
@@Legitimancy No, you are only one being. But it's been shows there are three persons in God, in the Bible, time and time again.
John 1:1 isnt the words of Jesus. Plus jews never ever believed in the concept of trinity and only believed in one God, so you are saying that God was perfectly fine with that for 1500 years and never called them out on it?
1. Does it make it invalid even though it’s John’s writing? If so, then why trust John on anything, even when he quotes Jesus?
2. Just because the Jews didn’t have a complete understanding of the nature of God doesn’t mean they were somehow incorrect and thus God glossed over their faultiness. Many things were hidden from followers of YHWH prior to Jesus’ incarnation, not just the Trinity.
Lol John was a prophet ordained by who?
The OT has the concept of the LORD, the Word of the LORD, and the Spirit of the LORD. Jewish adherents would say all three are God with no problem.
@@hermanwooster8944 Exactly. Plus, the Trinity visited Abraham.
I find it ironic that I actually had most of this explained to me while taking a college course on _Egyptian_ religions. One of the first concepts we went over was "aspective logic," the idea that a god had multiple distinct aspects (typically distinguished by name, role, and/or title) that could manifest separately from one another, even interact with each other (e.g. the images of Amun from Karnak and Luxor during the Opet festival). Such ideas were not limited to Egypt, but were almost universal across the ancient Near East. Even Judaism entertained such ideas (e.g. Yahweh's epithet "Adonai," God as divine father), and debates over a Yahweh's nature as multi-aspect vs a singular monad were common among rabbinical schools in Jesus's era. Unfortunately, this debate got considerably more polarized after Christ's crucifixion, with Christians and more traditional Jewish camps abruptly gravitating around multi-aspect and monad models respectively (and the latter seemingly out of reflexive repudiation of the former). And despite its obvious pagan/gnostic roots, the Islamic monad model that came later was even more simplistic than the Jewish one, one that seemingly forgot the multi-aspect beliefs of their forebears (Abrahamic and pagan) overnight.
There is a great and terrible irony for anyone using the "1+1+1=1" argument, one that does a disservice to everyone involved (and their respective ancestors).
Okay, Testify, let’s discuss.
What is a “deity”? I’m not talking about the one true God, just, what is the definition of the word “deity”?
Aside from the obvious being “a god or goddess” the next most accurate definition is THIS:
*divine status, quality, or nature*
So if a person has a divine nature, that person is a deity. The problem with “three persons” sharing one divine nature, means that each of those persons are divine.
Three persons, each with the same divine nature. In other words, three deities.
But then you go ahead and say “it’s not three deities, it’s three divine persons sharing the same nature”. What is that nature? Divinity.
It’s circular logic!
“God can’t be three gods because he’s only one god”. Okay, so there’s not three divine persons, there’s only one divine person, who is God. “No, there’s one God, expressed in three divine persons”.
I mean it feels like the Sponge Bob meme with Patrick denying that the wallet isn’t his.
Three divine persons, mean three deities. But there aren’t three deities, there’s only one deity, expressed in three divine persons.
And your go-to reasoning is “God is infinitely larger than us, so he doesn’t have to make sense”? You cannot be intellectually honest with yourself and make the same awful claim that C.S. Lewis makes.
The Son IS the Father.
I am mind, body, and spirit. God is Father, Son, Holy Spirit. This isn’t partialism, because that’s saying God is in three thirds. God is not in thirds, he’s 1/1, not 3/3. Humans are 1/1, not 3/3.
This isn’t modalism, because God doesn’t cease being the Father when he is the Son.
Saying that there are three divine persons, only to say that there are not three gods but only one God, is insane circular logic.
And when called out on it, your reasoning is “God is greater than I am, he doesn’t have to make sense”. Huh? That’s poor logic for a poor argument.
Jesus is the Father. He’s called The everlasting Father in Isaiah 9:6. Case closed.
He says “I and my Father are one”.
If he was claiming “I and my Father are united in will”, that wouldn’t have been blasphemy in the eyes of the Jews. Many of the Jews believed they too were one with the Father’s will.
Yet they stoned Jesus because they interpreted him as saying “I am God”. So saying “I am united with God”, means “I am God”? I doubt it.
“I am God” means “I am God”. “I and my Father are one”, Jesus is claiming to be the Father.
“My Father is greater than I”, “My mind is greater than my body”.
Honestly- it just infuriates me that everyone spreading the main doctrine of the Trinity around can’t hold a debate with me on this. I prove how circular their logic is and they ghost me.
Testify, please hold a debate with me.
@@brandenmarcum430 Hello and thank you for this comment, I have been researched alot on this topic, and your comment sums up the conclusion I feel like Im coming too.
This view on the God Head, as the Bible calls it, seems to be far more concrete and sound than traditional trinitarianism is, however its hard to say that to others without being labeled a "heretic" right away.
Praise Jesus Christ and may he be with you now and forever more
@@zacharybalean Honestly, it’s insane how many people shout “HeReTiC!!” when you explain how you interpret the Bible. I’m convinced the main reason many people believe in the 3 persons one essence stuff is because they’re afraid to come to their own conclusions- they’re afraid of being labeled a heretic.
I’m not afraid. Jesus was accused of blasphemy and heresy all the time, all because he diverged from their traditional teachings.
When I diverge from traditional teachings, and called a heretic, how can I not look at my accusers the same way Jesus did?
Jesus didn’t come to replace a set of traditions with a new set of traditions. Jesus never cared for traditions in the first place, nor religion for that matter.
Getting upset that I’m committing some sort of heresy by diverging from tradition isn’t an insult to me.
@@brandenmarcum430 amen brother, well said, freedom in Christ is truly a wonderful thing, Christianity is truth of the world, not just a religion that boils doen to this "doctrine and this "theological point".
I really do pray all christians can understand the fullness of that freedom one day, and thank you for your messeges
God bless you friend
Jesus prays to the Father. If Jesus is identical to the Father, then he would be praying to himself, which is absurd. Case closed, sorry.
Regarding different ways to count personal beings: suppose I am married and 1 year from now I enter a time machine and travel back in time to today. How many husbands does my wife have? There is a bit of a paradox here: in one sense, she has one husband - me. But surely, we can point to two instances of me who are in distinct places. She is indeed married to both instances of me, because both instances ARE me. It would not be a sin for her to have sex with either of "me", because she is indeed married to both, who are the same being.
Now you can imagine the same with God, except He is not bound by time so He can do the same thing without invoking time travel.
@@jsupim1 Jesus leads by example. Jesus prays to the Father because he was in a human body. Humans need prayer. Prayer isn’t talking TO God, it’s talking WITH God.
“Blessed be the name of the Lord”, Jesus isn’t praising God, no one is praising God when they say that. They’re stating a simple fact, like the sky is blue.
“Father forgive them, for they know not what they do”, Jesus is reassuring himself. When he was in the cross, THAT is when Satan tempted him most. Satan wanted Jesus to use his divine and righteous power to smite all of humanity for killing them.
The Father is all knowing, why else would Jesus need to say “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do”, wouldn’t the Father already know that? Jesus is praying WITH himself, not to himself.
Besides, you never had that inner voice that talks to you?
Sometimes I think to myself “Okay, we just gotta do this and get it over with” or sometimes I just think “okay, let’s try this instead”.
Who is we? Who is us? No one. I’m just talking to myself. But you’re right, Jesus never prayed to himself because that’s not what prayer is. Prayer is a form of meditation, it’s a way to align yourself with the Father.
When Jesus talks with the Father, he’s connecting to his mind.
Humans are separated from their higher consciousness, that’s why we need prayer. We need to talk with the Father because we can’t talk to ourselves.
When he says “My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?”, he doesn’t actually feel like God abandoned him, he’s just referencing Psalm 22, fulfilling another prophecy.
He’s making sure that people familiar with the Psalm understand that Jesus’s death will lead to great things.
And if you hypothetically time traveled and meet a “time remnant” of yourself, then there wouldn’t be two versions of you- there’s only one of you. Even if you meet your past self and stay within the same room, you’re not at two different spots at the same time. To suggest so would mean there’s an infinite amount of you at an infinite amount of spots.
By traveling to the past and meeting your past self, there aren’t two of you, there’s still only one of you.
Past you has yet to experience the moments you are. Past you looking at you is looking at his own future, it’s HIM.
In a room with past you, present you, and past wife, there’s only two people in that room.
It’s trippy, I know, but if it were to hypothetically happen like that, that’s what it would be.
Your analogy falls short anyways because even if the time remnant is a different person, that’s not how God works.
God isn’t in multiple places at the same time, and even if he is operating two avatars, God is already everywhere. He wouldn’t be in two places at the same time.
Secondly, if he has two avatars, the two separate bodies would just be considered extensions of God’s true form, like arms connected to a torso. They wouldn’t be considered separate people, because what makes the person is the mind, the higher consciousness.
There are not three divine persons.
To suggest that there are three divine persons is to suggest three deities. But then you go ahead and say it’s not three gods, it’s only one God, expressed in three persons. Are each of those persons equally divine? Yes? Then there’s three divine persons, meaning three gods.
It’s circular logic, and the reasoning to the circular logic is “God is so much greater than me, he doesn’t have to make sense”.
Poor reasoning for a poor argument.
I’m a Christian All praise and glory be on to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ of Nazareth Amen ☦️
New testify video 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Love this, I'm looking forward to the next video, this really does help with helping to explain the Trinity. A friend I have quit believing in that, and is arian, so this helps with research to help in discussion sometime. Thx, and God Bless ya
I’m Jewish but in my Jewish studies class we had a catholic teacher come in and she explained it as, “god in heaven, god on earth, and god inside someone”. That helped me understand it even though personally I don’t believe it
This video explains that that's not what is happening. It is 3 separate beings, not the same being taking different forms.
@@somerandom3247 that is just how I heard it
3:25 to add to the rebuttal of the Shema objection, I can also add that in Hebrew, the names of God are repeated 3 times before Echad, alluding to the trinity.
"Hear o Israel, The *LORD*, our *GOD*, The *LORD* is one"
Trinity is completely biblical
Genesis 1:26 "Let Us make man in Our image, in Our likeness."
Gods talkin to himself. He is the holy spirit. He is jesus and theres the key part that is everywhere all the time since forever until forever but god never changes always was how is so Jesus was always there also so was the holy spirit theyre 1 god 1 entitity 3 parts. Its not a trinity its more like a head and two hands for one body.
@@JacobWillits correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that partialisim?
Everybody with a clear mind, reading Genesis 1:1 to verse 26 and beyond will never come to the conclusion of a three person god, ever! *Septuagint* Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold *I* have given to you every seed-bearing herb sowing seed which is upon all the earth... Genesis 2:2 And God finished on the sixth day *his* works which *he* made, and *he* ceased on the seventh day from all *his* works which *he* made.
See, the context refutes you. You cannot take a verse out of context?! God is always adressed with single personal pronouns and never with plural pronouns, ever!! In Genesis 1:26 God was not alone, the angels rejoiced and praised God when He made the stars (Job 38:7).
So the angels where there. God was talking with plural of majesty, He was making an announcement to His holy angels about the creation of the first man. Adam was made in God's own image and likeness. Adam was one person! God is our Heavenly Father, Father is One Person!
Mind you, this is the same God who managed to put the ideas and concepts of good and evil in a fruit probably the size of a pomegranate. So why do you expect to understand His very Being easily? Just learn and abide by what He has revealed to us, and love Him with all you have.
"It can be pretty confusing..." Duh...Notice he says they are all fully God, and yet they don't all have the attributes of God and they are described differently in the Bible. There is literally nothing logical about it, even after your very weak contradictory attempt at an explanation.
There are so many times that God is referred to as three persons. It doesn't even have to be passages from the gospels, you can find them in GENESIS. He's referred to as "Us" TWICE.
@@kashmirandal6282 i guess its true that blind followers will always exist for certain things, even if they make no sense at all
@@kRaZyXmAn No sense? Infinity³ = infinity.
@@kashmirandal6282 exactly, then there is no point in the cube. Also if they were all equal they would all display equal qualities of God within all of their forms. They do not
@@kRaZyXmAn Again, they are distinct persons, not separate. They would obviously have separate qualities of God.
Think of it like this:
Father = mind
Son = body
Holy Spirit = soul
Your body would not have the same qualities as your soul.
I have come across many "spiritual but not religious" people that claim "the trinity is fake because it tries to encapsulate God, God is much larger than that" then you dig deeper in what they actually believe and what they want is God to mean nothing so they can create their own gods and call it God. The Holy Trinity is a revelation that God Himself did to us, He is trying to make us understand Him.
1.) There is One God
2.) Jesus is that One God incarnate
3.) Jesus is the fullness of the Godhead not a partial revelation of God
🚨 The Trinity is defined by Tradition not by the Scriptures alone
The trinity can be fletched out using just scriptures tho
Most people today don't comprehend the nuance between contradiction and paradox.
Trinity is not biblical. Nor is it what the earliest Christians believed. See the book Restoring the Biblical Christ for evidence of all that I am saying
Is Jesus the express image of the Father?
John 8:58 is typically used to say that Jesus quoted Exodus 3:14 but comparing these two Greek texts side by side, we know this isn't true. John 8:58 is also used to say Jesus is YHVH. Again, this couldn't be true either because that would be confusing identity with being.
The son's identity is Jesus.
The Father's identity is YHVH.
To say Jesus is YHVH is at least combining modalism with trinitarianism.
There is no text that ever reads Jesus "is" God. Trinitarians can have two texts where the son is "called" God. John 20:28, Heb 1:8.
Heb 1:8 is always quoted without 1:9 where it is clear the son has a God in the very next verse.
I think you don’t really know how trinitarianism works. The Son is YHVH and the Father is YHVH (along with the Spirit ofc). They’re three persons but one God: YHVH. Also there are tons of verses in the Bible that pretty explicitly state Jesus is God, not just the two ones you quoted:
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
John 1:18 - No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
John 8:58 - Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.”
John 20:28 - Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
Acts 20:28 - Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has appointed you as overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which he purchased with his own blood.
Romans 9:5 - The ancestors are theirs, and from them, by physical descent, came the Christ, who is God over all, praised forever. Amen.
Hebrews 1:8 - but to the Son: Your throne, God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of justice.
Titus 2:13 - while we wait for the blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1:1 - Simeon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ: To those who have received a faith equal to ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.
1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we may know the true one. We are in the true one - that is, in his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
@@ChristIsLordofAll-xb6xv The Father is clearly named/identified as YHVH. If you want to say the the son is YHVH, you are saying that Jesus is the Father. You are either a modalist or a claiming trinitarian that unknowingly combining modalism with trinitarianism.
The early church fathers never identify Jesus as YHVH. That is a very modern teaching.
@@JohnLLJ
1. There has been a clear distinction between Trinitarianism and Modalism. Jesus has always been YHWH in traditional Trinitarian thinking.
2. Ignatius, a disciple of John the Apostle, says Jesus is our God (Ignatius Letter to Ephesians 7:2). Justin Martyr, one of the earliest church fathers, equated Jesus with God who spoke to Moses from the burning bush (Dialogue with Trypho).
Again…
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
John 1:18 - No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
John 8:58 - Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.”
John 20:28 - Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
Acts 20:28 - Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has appointed you as overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which he purchased with his own blood.
Romans 9:5 - The ancestors are theirs, and from them, by physical descent, came the Christ, who is God over all, praised forever. Amen.
Hebrews 1:8 - but to the Son: Your throne, God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of justice.
Titus 2:13 - while we wait for the blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1:1 - Simeon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ: To those who have received a faith equal to ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.
1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we may know the true one. We are in the true one - that is, in his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
@ChristIsLordofAll-xb6xv If Jesus is YHVH, you have created problematic texts. For example Psalm 110.1,5.
Psalm 110:1
YHVH said to "adoni" (Messiah, Jesus).
Is Jesus talking to himself?
Jesus is at the right hand of the Father, do you think Jesus is going to be at the right and left of himself at the same time executing judgement?
Psalm 110:5....
Well?
John 8:58, please tell me Jesus quoted Exo 3:14..
1st "I AM" Ego Eimi ho on.
2nd "I AM" ho on.
The woman at the well when Jesus claimed to be the Messiah said
Ego Eimi Ho!
The blind man at John 9:9 said grammatical idententical to John 8:58...Ego Eimi.
Heb 1:9, the theos in 8 has a God in 9.
Titus 2:13 is weak, that is a Granville Sharpe rule.
2 peter 1:2 there is God and Jesus.
1 peter 1:3 Jesus has a God again.
@@JohnLLJ Again, we who believe in the Trinity believe the Father and the Son are two separate persons. I agree with you on that. However, there are not only explicit state my by the NT authors that say He is God, but Jesus equates Himself multiple times as the God of the OT.
God in the Old Testament
I AM (Exodus 3:14-15; Isaiah 48:12)
The Shepherd (Psalm 23:1)
The Light (Psalm 27:1)
The Rock (Psalm 18:2)
Ruler of all (Isaiah 9:6)
Judge of all nations (Joel 3:12)
The Bridegroom (Isaiah 62:5; Hosea 2:16)
God’s Word never passes away (Isaiah 40:8)
The Sower (Jeremiah 31:27; Ezekiel 36:9)
First and the Last (Isaiah 48:12)
Jesus’ Reference to Himself
I AM (John 8:58)
The Shepherd (John 10:11)
The Light (John 8:12)
The Rock (Matthew 7:24)
Ruler of all (Matthew 28:18)
Judge of all (John 5:22)
The Bridegroom (Matthew 25:1)
Jesus’ words never pass away (Mark 13:31)
The Sower (Matthew 13:3-9)
First and the Last (Revelation 1:17-18)
Me casually trying to understand the Trinity without comitting heresy: 😅😭
Jokes aside thanks to this video I grasp the concept a bit more rather than having my own personal view of it, thank you very much Tesify!
Sincerely, thank you for doing videos on the Trinity. I lost a bet, but thank you. For years it seemed like you conveniently ignored this topic, so I assumed you were Oneness. Never been happier to be wrong!
Sometimes it brothers me very much how people who don't have good education or time to think due to work would find this important concept hard to understand, it is what it is, God protects them from these doubts until it's the right time to understand ig
"For GOD so loved the World that HE gave HIS only begotten SON that whoever belives in HIM shall Not perish but have everlasting life "John 3:16
Deut 6.4-6, Mark 12.28-32, John 17.1, John 20.17, Rom 15.6, Rom 16.27, I Cor 8.6, II Cor 11.31, I Tim 2.5, Rev 1.5-6, Rev 3.12, John 8.40, Acts 2.22, Acts 17.31, Rom 5.15, Gal 4.4.
Matthew 28:19, John 1:1, John 10:30, John 14:16-17, John 14:26, John 16:13-15, 2 Corinthians 13:14, Colossians 2:9, Philippians 2:5-6, Hebrews 1:3, Isaiah 9:6, Genesis 1:26, Genesis 18:1-2, Matthew 3:16-17, 1 Peter 1:2, Ephesians 4:4-6, Acts 5:3-4, Romans 8:9-11, Galatians 4:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6, John 8:58
Just subscribed to your channel through a dear brother from his channel Lion of Fire Raw Ministries. Thank God I am finding more channels that are helpful resources to study God's Word.
Thanks for the clarification. That makes so much more sense now if you don't think about it
Okay I may just be setting myself up to get flamed here but I'm gonna go for it.
I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, so of course not a trinitarian. This video really surprised me because he explains the trinity EXACTLY as us "mormons" see it (although we use the term "godhead"), with the addition of just throwing in the word "trinity" or saying "but He's just one God" every once in a while. You could cut like 5 sentences from this video and it would have the green light to be shown in mormon Sunday school. Other than those few little phrases, we literally have the same conception of God. Three distinct persons, united in purpose and order, not the same as each other nor part of a whole, but a three-part unit that functions together. We preach all of these things in the Church of Jesus Christ. We agree on everything up until "oh but also trinity," and further questions are met with "well God is unlimited and we can't comprehend Him so you just have to accept it otherwise you're a heretic." The problem with this logic is that, in making the claim that we can't fully comprehend God's nature, you no longer have the luxury to insist on the trinity, because that is a very definite claim about God's nature. A semantic issue like this is absolutely not worthy of the amount of contention it causes, and I would argue that it's outright irresponsible to call this heresy, much less polytheism. If this is video is an accurate description of the protestant view of the trinity, then Latter Day Saints are not the enemy. Anybody willing to have an honest and reasonable discussion with a Latter Day Saint will find that we almost entirely agree on this concept.
The Trinity is essential doctrine for all false Christianity
God being Infinite makes it all possible.
This is a half-baked thought I have yesterday as I struggled to fall asleep. If you start from the presupposition that existence requires an observer, a triune God is also perfectly logical.
As within that entity, you'd need at least two entities for each to observe the other and confirm that they they do exist, and then a third to observe the "Is" and "Is Not" (to serve as discriminator if you will) between the two entities and in a silly sense giving them form and specify where one starts and the other ends (or at least to observe that fact.) Beyond three, you have observers of a self contained relationships, so not needed. Three becomes the perfect number for the number of people you'd expect an entity that was there before all things existed to have.
Now, I am NOT saying that's how God is! But that's just a thought that flashed in my head yesterday as I fell asleep at 3am.
Persons has a meaning that is no longer used today and you should find what that means so the trinity doctrine makes sense.
In a nutshell: God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are three different people, who all work together as God.
But we can’t say that they are the distinct individuals because then we’d share “Mormon” beliefs, but we obviously can’t do that.
For the slowbois:
"Think of the Father like the sun and the Son like the light from the sun. The sun can’t exist without shining, just like the Father can’t exist without the Son. They are always together, and the Son has always been with the Father, just like light has always been with the sun."
I like to explain it as imagine how if you conceive of God as all powerful, included in that is the ability to take different forms. If you accept that He is all powerful, and can take different forms, why would he be limited to only one at a time? Why would they not be able to exist simultaneously? This would imply some limit on his power.
It’s kinda dumbed down, but I like to use this as a good basis for explaining the Trinity to people who it’s completely foreign to.
Dear Lord, Dad Jesus, God Almighty, in Your Absolutely Perfect Name, may The Day of The LORD come really soon, so that You may wipe away every tear from our eyes! 😁🩶💯🙏😇
I've read the whole entirety of The Bible as a whole of it's context and the way I see how Trinity is a manner of the Embodiment of Who GOD is rather than a persona in which it defines it's characteristic for what the purpose of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit is all about which represent GOD as omnipotent and omniscient. The Alpha and The Omega. The Beginning and The Last. 🙏
If your answer to a question that big(the trinity) is that we cant understand then dont bother explaining anything because it makes no difference after that.
I will argue that the doctrine of the Trinity does have some points that can be debated upon that people commonly hold as heretical, but really aren't.
A common one I hear is that there is no hierarchy in the trinity, when Jesus repeatedly makes claim to there being a hierarchy. For some reason, people assume that believing there is a hierarchy in personhoods=Arianism or Partialism, but it really doesn't.
Glory to Jesus truly God and truly human amen. Every knee shall bow amen. God bless you. i love you all my brothers and sisters in Christ ❤❤❤❤❤
I once heard someone comparing the Holy Trinity to our own being: I'm a body, a "heart", and a mind. All of these are inseparable because all of them constitute my being. Is that partialism?
The thing that bothers me about the Trinity vs Muslims issue is that they will take a few verses, quote them as authoritative
(ie: As if they believe the Bible)
Then they pretend they know the Bible better than Christians despite the fact that they also believe the Bible to be corrupt.
They want us to accept their interpretation of our book.
Could you imagine if a Christian insisted that we teach them what their text says? The Muslims would never accept that.
The hypocrisy is ridiculous.
If you are a Muslim, stick to the Quran and leave the Bible alone.
As a Christian, I don't need help from a Muslim to understand the Bible.
If you want me to think that Jesus isn't God... use your own text, don't go to the Bible.
The Bible is clear... Jesus is God.
You can always turn it around on them. Surah 5:68 commands Christians to judge the quran based on the Gospel and Jews to judge it based on the Torah. That means the quran automatically accepts that Christians have the true Gospel in their possession. The whole "your text has been corrupted" is an argument that developed after the quran's writing, because, well, everyone can see that the Gospel does not accept what they claim. That's why they feel compelled to go through the Bible to prove Islam all while knowing it doesn't, so they revert back to the corruption claim.
@@hermanwooster8944 ...
I personally prefer not to touch the Quran. I tell them to stick to the Quran, and I will stick to the Bible. But, I understand that everyone has their own strategy when dealing with Muslims.
@@justinpontarelli4368 I fully respect that. I don't run towards reading other books. I only heard of the verse and it completely surprised me because it undercuts their claims that the text was corrupted some time back in the 1st-3rd centuries.