FANTASTIC video! As an audio enthusiast, I recently was floored when I inherited, and first listened to, my father's LP collection which included 'Living Presence', 'In Living Color', and Cameo label LP's! I had no idea that this technology existed years ago, and sounds better than anything i've heard, including SACD, HDCD, reel to reel, etc.! The soundstage, presence, realism, and dynamic range of this 35mm era is mind blowing! It was so enthralling to watch and listen to you speak on the subject. Thank you!
Thanks for this video. I discovered Mercury recordings not in vynil, but in normal redbook CDs. It was a real shock for me, being a classical (and jazz) music enthusiast, to find that records made some four decades ago were better and far more realistic than what today mainstream great labels release to the market. RCA "Living Stereo" series are also something to have in mind from both musical and sonic quality points of view. I haven't had any notice before your video of the existence of Everest label. So, thank you again.
I have 2 box sets of Mercury Living Presence classical CDs. They sound amazing on my hi end system. Such great dynamic range and detail. I remember tape bleed through on my cassette recordings from vinyl in the 80s.
Excellent video. I am very fortunate to have that copy on Command Records along with one with Doc Severinsen. It sounds pretty darn good. The Mercury Living Presence pressings sound incredible. Did not know that Mercury used the 35 mm format for recording also. Learned something new. There are some Living Presence records in my collection. These pressings are 60 plus years old. A friend told me about their process. Pretty amazing.
The problem the labels had using 35mm magnetic film to record was the cost. Nearly all these recordings never recouped their costs. The major problems were lack of equipment, cost of 35mm magnetic film, and the lack of recording engineers who knew how to work with this medium. This reminds me of a project Philips Laboratory in Eindhoven worked on in the early 1930s. They were working on a 35mm optical sound recorder. They did manufacture 1 deck, which can be seen at the Philips Museum in Eindhoven. A few recordings were made. But by 1933 they stopped the project as it wasn't convenient. As it used the same technology as optical sound the main problems were you needed to used a separate deck for recording that could house un-exposed film. This film was then processed as you would do with normal film and then played back on a different deck that had two separate optical audio tracks. So there was no instant playback.
I have seen that argument as well, the cost of magnetic 35mm film compared to magnetic tape. Probably the dropping of Magnetic Sound tracks, either on separate synchronised sound followers or printed as strips on side of the film in favour of optical tracks plus the improvements in standard tape technology with 1" as well as half inch decks and faster speeds.
This 35mm magnetic audio technology was not only done for music, but movies as well. Star Wars (1977) is an example. The musical score was recorded on standard 16-track open reel, but also as a backup, the orchestra was simultaneously recorded on magnetic 35mm. It's a good thing they did this because after they mixed the original mono and stereo film score for theatrical release, they lost the original tracks. Then, in 1997 when George Lucas did the Special Edition of the 1977 film, they had to use these magnetic 35mm recordings for the musical score.
It really is true--- Mercury Living Presence is something wonderful for your ears. I discovered this a few years ago, when I bought a Chabrier CD with Paul Paray and the Detroit Symphony Orchestra recorded in 1956. That CD blows away everything else in my collection. I put it in my car stereo and turn it up and never get tired of how fantastic it is. Thanks for the great video which told me a lot I did not know.
Joe Palooka You’re talking about the Detroit Symphony Orchestra? They were the same Orchestra before they did the arrangements for so many Motown recordings along with the Funk Brothers during the 1960’s and 1970’s. DSO did many of the albums for Mercury’s Living Presence label before they did many of their hits for Motown including the Temptations, the Four Tops, Smokey Robinson & the Miracles, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, and many more.
The high sampling rate really brings out the level of detail in the sound (but probably not all of it just an approximation) of 35mm ultra Analog but I urge you to try a comparable all tube 180gm vinyl pressing from Classic Records which was captured at the same time as they remastered the 35mm tapes to 192/24. They used an original Westrex 35mm 1551 playback deck fitted with new heads.
Fantastic. I have two albums, both from 1961, by Dinah Washington and Brook Benton. They are not Living Presence, but they sound absolutely terrific. On the reverse side, they have the microphones used and they were recorded at the Fine Recording Studios in New York, with George Piros as mixer. He worked with Robert Fine and Wilma Cozart on Mercury Living Presence recordings. No wonder they sound amazing.
If you have the appropriate player and setup, I recommend getting these recordings in SACD: you get one microphone per speaker - left, center, right - it's ideal!
A wide selection of the Everest 35mm recordings which originally developed the medium for stereo recordings are available on DVD-Audio ( Classic Records) and SACD now from King Records Japan which offer front three channel sound exactly as recorded or straight two channel stereo which the LP or open reel purchaser heard 1959 to 1961. There is one beautiful Everest Susskind/LSO recording of Copland's Appalachian Spring transfered to SACD by Sony on Vanguard.
@@anadialog Hi, what's the situation with regard to reel to reel and Mercury. A sort of four track stereo tape craze has grown on me just recently (sign of old age?) and one I'd really like to hear on tape would be the Eastman Rochester Gershwin Cuban Overture/Rhapsody in Blue/Eugene List piano, conducted by Howard Hanson.
Excellent Video. A couple of months ago I back to listening vinyl, and since then I have been learning a lot with you about analogue music. Thank you very much, A hug from Brazil.
Just found this video after watching your latest video on pre-recorded reel to reel tapes. I have a CD by a band called Mercury Rev which says it was mastered from 35mm film tape.
@@anadialog - thanks mate. Album is ' Deserter's Songs' by Mercury Rev. Says on back of CD case..."original master recorded on 35/ mm magnetic film". Also a logo on back... STEREO 35 MM. Hope this helps.
@@anadialog - thanks mate. Album is ' Deserter's Songs' by Mercury Rev. Says on back the masters 35mm magnetic film, and a logo... STEREO 35 MM. Hope this helps.
Try listening on SACD format if you possibly can. As well as higher resolution, this will give you the option of three-channel playback, as originally recorded. it's stunning!! I was told by a recording engineer years ago that some LPs on the Fontana label from the '60s and '70s were pressed from Mercury masters. These are still occasionally available for peanuts in second-hand shops and can sound pretty good. If it features conductor Antal Dorati, amongst others, it's a fairly safe bet you'll have a Cozart/Fine recording.
I read that the sprocket holes can get worn or chewed up (over time) on those old 35MM tapes, causing speed problems. So I wonder if that's why the use of it was curtailed?
Most of the 35mm Everest Magnetic Film masters were only used once or twice after the first LP issues all subsequent releases coming from half inch or even quarter inch stereo dubs. No wonder the sound quality plus poor cheap pressings were so poor! When Vanguard acquired the rights and original tapes for the first remastering to digital in the 1990s they reported that apart from a little stretch at the beginning and a few parts of some reels the 35mm masters were in excellent shape. These issues have been addressed by the latest Japanese re-mastering using laser speed controlled playback decks. I like the bit of wow and flutter on the 2000s Classic Records remastering to DVD-Audio which is SACD equivalent because it authenticates the original sound. Plus the Hollywood team of Bernie Grundman that did the remastering rebuilt the original playback equipment and conferred on these DVD-A reissues a sound that probably most closely approaches the originals.
Thank you for this explanation. You forget one important fact about the 35 mm tape: the speed is higher, about 45 cm/sec. Secondly, the film tape was the first multitrack sytem. For films the tracks were used for the separated recording of dialog, music and soundeffects. Besides that, film studios worked with multiple recorders/players that ran in sync with the picture see 7 min 25 sec at the left. Later we used 4 and 6 tracks on the same tape. You only needed to change the heads on the machine.
First became aware of 35mm recordings with the Mercury CD reissues (1990's?) which if I remember were supervised by Wilma Cozart Fine. I've since found a bit of original 60s vinyl that was mastered from 35mm. Not a technical expert but 35mm may be the finest recording format that's ever existed.
How did they edit 35mm tape? With normal magnetic tape editing was easy: cut and stick. But how did they this with perforated tape? Was it the cause that most recording studios didn't use it?
We can add that in USA there were occasions where film sountracks wete 0ut on records . WARSAE CONCERTO by "Addenzel" was a composion released by Columbia tecords taken aovie soundtrack, instead of being 14:25 done over in a trcord studio. There were other movie sound tracks also done. But no record company did originals on f8lb, only released mayerial from movies that way.
I would reccomend from Mercury Living Presence the almost integral of Bela Bartok's orchestral production conducted by Antal Dorati. The London Symphony Orchestra and (to a less extent) the Philarmonia Hungarica were the orchestras. The "Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta" version is among the best performances of this work you can find. I do beleave all these recordings (vinyl and CD) come in a dedicated red-colored box.
Thanks very much for this excellent well researched video I had always wondered what the background of this format was,now I need to try and source some.
Cool video! I got some mercury presence albums : Prokofiev, Bartok...and one pop album : Esquivel - More of other Worlds, Other Sounds and in point of fact, the sound is huge! A must have!
I have a question. On my Mercury records it says on the liner notes that it was recorded monaurally and stereophonically. Does that mean there were two master tapes? If that is so, did any of the other labels have this?
Yes, in those days the actually had two machines running to make both mono and stereo. Most major labels during the 50's and 60's did this. In fact mono recordings of those days are in most cases superior to the stereo version just like for the Beatles and the Rolling Stones! I made a video on this topic but I am sure you've seen it: th-cam.com/video/m6q2JBOiD80/w-d-xo.html
@@anadialog I suspected as much. I have two stereo recordings. Sarah Vaughn (with some great musicians) and Dinah Washington (not the mono recording which is a different album). They are Mercury. The only thing is, that their voices come only from the left channel. Annoying to say the least. I looked on Amazon and there is a seller who has the mono version of Sarah Vaughan (cheap). I'm going to get it, and I am sure that I will be pleased. Incidentally, when I saw this video I got a mono cartridge! Ciao, Guido.
Westrex, aka Western Electric, had created one of the two optical sound systems used for sound on film with a exciter light reading lines, waves and/or bars to get sound. RCA was the other, so you can see why they tied up after WWII and developed 35mm magnetic sound on film. Magnetic tape was invented by German industry and became a worldwide spoil of the war. The sprocket perforations stopped the tape from slipping, so for film, it made sound editing much, much better. This extended to 16mm and Super 8 filmmaking and you can see how this works if you watch John Travolta in the brilliant Brian De Palma thriller BLOW OUT (1981) where he plays a movie sound recordist. In one great sequence, he is trying to sync up his magnetic audio with a silent film. Sprockets or not on the magnetic tape, you'll get the idea.
Wow, more great information, thank you! I had no idea that 35mm film was used for audio recordings! The location of that photo of St. Basil' s Cathedral where their van was parked is most likely footsteps from where I proposed to my fiance'.👍
Interesting, I never heard groove echo as an effect of the tape, rather it was the effect of the lacquer material bring pushed a little from one groove to the next.
I’ve got the Mercury Living Presence Nutcracker suite recorded on 35mm tape. I used to use Beta Max tape and record hours and hours of music for cheap compared to my 10” real to real tape with great results.
If u used a top notch tube CD player and played the latest mercury CDs mastered with DSD process results will be even better than vinyl esp on fast piano on the inner LP tracks. Vinyl has inherent inner groove distortion caused by compression and this is compounded by the tracking angle error of most tonearms unless a tangential arm is used. And fast piano is the acid test of these anomalies.
Are you old enough to remember the old Gerard Zero 100 turntable with supposed zero tracking error ? Many people at that time said it was a solution to a non problem. I had a Sota turntable with Syrinx PU 3 arm with a Talisman cartridge , nice set up for the times but again I just couldn’t deal with the rice krispee pops off the LP .@@2mikelim
@@michaelkennedy4444 I am. I was in fact using the ancient rabco st7 tangential arm which sounded thick and slow. I upgraded to the HK rabco st9 with an extremely transparent arm but the platter speed needed frequent adjustment. Those modern 5 figure megabucks tangential setups are beyond me. So explored CDs and tube CDPs with an aim to achieve vinyl sonics at fraction of the cost.
Yes.... I picked up a 1962 F:35 "Music in Depth" sampler LP.... just being curious about the recording technology. And I was astonished by the sound!!.... it's a MONO LP, but I swear it has depth and width, great dynamic range.... and NO tape hiss at all. It's remarkable. While it's all big band style music of 1962, it's still enjoyable, and I constantly impress people with this record. I have found 2 other F:35 albums since, and one is great, and the other not so good... I think it was either a poor pressing, or simply worn out by someone's heavy stylus....
You left out Enoch Light of “Command Records”. He was a pioneer of using 35mm for ALL of his recordings. Spectacular sound! Only my “East Wind” direct-to-disk records surpass the quality of Enoch’s Command recordings.
The main point is that MOVIES are EDITED, and early on in Sound Film Era, sound was recorded on a Sound ONLY track. Movies were taken at 24 frames per second, and the opticle sound track for a second of SOUND was SAME LENGTH as a SCOND OF PICTURE. THE EDITING OF SOUND 1MAND PICTURE WAS "EASY" 1 TO 1 RELATION. In late 50s the magneting film repaced optical film for sound..track. The term was "full coat" That is WHY 3tmm magnetic film was onvented. Of course once the fillm was efited, the magnetic film was tranfered to optical film for thestre finished film. Not relevant to this but Eripean inveners of TriErgon movie sound system released 78s that used their lm process for madtering. The itonian used optical film recorder in the field that when edited made records Many Italia record companies used Cine Coty studis using mivie for madter recors >much as tape used post war,< for madtering. Large scale projects lik tecordins of full operas wete edited for yransfers to 78s Thats the back story to this 35mm magnetic film.
I would like to hear the original three channel recording before it got mixed down to two channels. I think it would be cool to hear the third channel rather than a phantom 3rd channel created by two channel stereo.
Hi, you can get genuine 3 channel 35mm audio across L C and R speakers from THE Everest reissues on Classic Records DVD-A, King Records Japan SACD, or the single SACD produced by Vanguard before they folded of the Appalachian Spring.
hi magnetic film had 3 4 6 tracks i picked up some new heads for very low money wow is the word it's got alot of gain i am using them on one inch tape i have a deck with bad head so i put a set on 3 on it i wow understand i sold all my film that came with the zonal 1 inch that was zonal to i just tryed the heads and so what they are like they sound ace don't keep music on the tapes as the tape is used to fast love the sound of the heads wider than 8 track one in a track there are wider tracks a tape
hi zonal tapes were making 35mm tape i had some with my zonal 1 inch tapes i can tell you the 35mm got a lot of out put. i tryed some one my otari wow is the word i know it costs big money 1 reel is about 22 min i don't know the speed of the tape.
Thanks Bob for the info. I know that also Pyral produced it in recent years before closing...who knows what modern productions used it...undortunately nobody states the tape they are using when they adopt tape.
Its a pity records are Digital now , not a lot of people are aware of it but there is a lot of music that is Electronic which I an always attracted to . That stylus has that tingle touch in the sound even 80s pop albums
I may comparatively be a beginner having only done this for about two years but I actually happen to be quite well informed and understand basic facts.
Papa Burgundy Not really. If executed properly digital recording is objectively closer to what the microphones heard. Analog can however introduce effects that are pleasurable to us.
Lots of errors in this potted history. Fine bought the Everest equipment. The company itself in New York was dissolved and the label brand name and back catalogue/masters were sold off or divested to a Hollywood entrepreneur Bernie Solomon who had connections in the Diner Club Record Club business. Operating from small offices in Los Angeles Everest from 1962 onwards was to be a purely reissuing, licensing budget record label. Its general manager Gideon Cornfeld for a short time was able to create a few small recording projects, for example the extremely important series of three Gregg Smith Singers albums including "An American Triptych". The previously pioneering Belock (New York 1958-61) three channel 35mm and half inch tape masters remained stored in a Beverly Hills garage while Everest was churned out in poor quality vinyl from two track stereo dubbed standard quarter inch tapes throughout the 70s including early digital transfers in the 1980s. The true quality of Everest recordings in 35mm and its pioneering back story are preserved at Acoustic Sounds in America and in the vaults of BMG Music/Essential Media Hamburg where the Everest 35mm masters are currently stored. DVD-Audio, SACD, all vacuum Hi Q new vinyl (some at 45rpm) reissues are available. Harry Belock and Everest were the first to take out of the cinema where it was originally designed and perfect the 35mm sound recording process for hi fidelity use by improving the frequency range if the Westrex machines from 18k to 21k, designing special direct to cutting lathe equipment which avoided any dubbing of the three track master to a two track stereo stereo tape. A series of SACD three track 35mm is currently being undertaken by Empire Records of Japan utilising the very latest in laser guided transfer equipment to handle the sixty year old master tapes.
Late to the table as usual; but I would add two notes of trivia. Everest failed largely because its parent company, Belock Instruments, was caught defrauding the government in its military contracts. A note on the back of early Everests bragged that Belock made underwater microphones for the U.S. Navy, which no doubt was the basis for the company"s recording expertise. As Mr. Murphy states, after the company was dissolved and then acquired by Mr. Solomon Everest product devolved into notoriously shoddy reissue product pressed on noisy vinyl. The company even managed to outrage conductor Wilhelm Furtwangler's widow and had to withdraw its unauthorized Furtwangler Beethoven symphonies set issued on its subsidiary Olympic label. (Of course I have the set in my collection of audio horrors). Regarding the highly prized classical recordings, there was no attempt to replace worn stampers and fidelity continued to decline. A few Everests survived into the CD error on the Bescol label. They are best avoided. The only Everests worth collecting are the early "silverback" pressings, referring to the foil record jacket backs. Some even had inner sleeves supported by a wooden dowel.
@@geraldmartin7703 there is no mention of underwater microphones on any Belock LP and I have all of them plus the Classic Records reissues, a few reel to reel, etc. The immediate postwar early Cold War years of the 1950s were fertile with many speculative airforce, army and navy research and development projects from which Belock Instruments profited as well as a hand in missile development at White Sands Huntsville with the ex Nazi V2 scientists. The company's key area of expertise was missile guidance components and computer based radar and aviation control systems. At some point the Belock factory at College Point Queens NY was one of only three beryllium machining facilities in the USA for NASA and the USAF used for rigid mounting of guidance sensors in the Atlas ICBMs and Apollo space program. The company also did research into light sensors for star field navigation and the US navy project of underwater sonors to detect Soviet submarines. Among the microphones used in Belock recordings were the famous Neumann Church modified on loan from MGM Hollywood. Prior to moving to Sperry Marine in NY, focusing on inertial guidance, early analog computer fire control systems, later early computerised missile flight simulators, Harry Belock cut his teeth in Hollywood as a sound engineer for MGM. These youthful experiences definitely motivated his rather playboy and extravagant launch of Everest Records in 1958 which was always bound to lose buckets of money - see also his involvement with Mike Todd and the Todd AO movie Around The World in Eighty Days. By the mid 1960s Belock Instruments had been delisted and was rescued by a share buyout by the Department of Defense at the same time it was taken over by another contractor Applied Devices. Finally Harry Belock went on to establish an engineering consultancy in NY.
Nope, its tape! It isn't the cinematic types...its like it but not it. It true that a lot of people call it, erroneously, film...buts its tape. In fact it has a magnetic oxide on it. Film is developed and it is for images.
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FANTASTIC video! As an audio enthusiast, I recently was floored when I inherited, and first listened to, my father's LP collection which included 'Living Presence', 'In Living Color', and Cameo label LP's! I had no idea that this technology existed years ago, and sounds better than anything i've heard, including SACD, HDCD, reel to reel, etc.! The soundstage, presence, realism, and dynamic range of this 35mm era is mind blowing! It was so enthralling to watch and listen to you speak on the subject. Thank you!
Thank YOU for your nice comment! I agree, it is indeed a great type of medium and it sad that it was used so little in the past.
Truly audiophile pioneers who made an important contribution to the history of recorded music and left a great legacy for future generations.
Thanks for this video.
I discovered Mercury recordings not in vynil, but in normal redbook CDs.
It was a real shock for me, being a classical (and jazz) music enthusiast, to find that records made some four decades ago were better and far more realistic than what today mainstream great labels release to the market.
RCA "Living Stereo" series are also something to have in mind from both musical and sonic quality points of view.
I haven't had any notice before your video of the existence of Everest label. So, thank you again.
Thank you for your comnent...keeps me going! Yes, rca living presence is also incredible. The quality of all those recordings is truly outstanding...
I have 2 box sets of Mercury Living Presence classical CDs. They sound amazing on my hi end system. Such great dynamic range and detail. I remember tape bleed through on my cassette recordings from vinyl in the 80s.
As a Mercury Living Presence fan, this is a fantastic explanation. Thank you; very well done!
Excellent video. I am very fortunate to have that copy on Command Records along with one with Doc Severinsen. It sounds pretty darn good. The Mercury Living Presence pressings sound incredible. Did not know that Mercury used the 35 mm format for recording also. Learned something new. There are some Living Presence records in my collection. These pressings are 60 plus years old. A friend told me about their process. Pretty amazing.
Thank YOU!
The problem the labels had using 35mm magnetic film to record was the cost. Nearly all these recordings never recouped their costs. The major problems were lack of equipment, cost of 35mm magnetic film, and the lack of recording engineers who knew how to work with this medium. This reminds me of a project Philips Laboratory in Eindhoven worked on in the early 1930s. They were working on a 35mm optical sound recorder. They did manufacture 1 deck, which can be seen at the Philips Museum in Eindhoven. A few recordings were made. But by 1933 they stopped the project as it wasn't convenient. As it used the same technology as optical sound the main problems were you needed to used a separate deck for recording that could house un-exposed film. This film was then processed as you would do with normal film and then played back on a different deck that had two separate optical audio tracks. So there was no instant playback.
Interesting...thanks for adding that!
I have seen that argument as well, the cost of magnetic 35mm film compared to magnetic tape. Probably the dropping of Magnetic Sound tracks, either on separate synchronised sound followers or printed as strips on side of the film in favour of optical tracks plus the improvements in standard tape technology with 1" as well as half inch decks and faster speeds.
This 35mm magnetic audio technology was not only done for music, but movies as well. Star Wars (1977) is an example. The musical score was recorded on standard 16-track open reel, but also as a backup, the orchestra was simultaneously recorded on magnetic 35mm. It's a good thing they did this because after they mixed the original mono and stereo film score for theatrical release, they lost the original tracks. Then, in 1997 when George Lucas did the Special Edition of the 1977 film, they had to use these magnetic 35mm recordings for the musical score.
It really is true--- Mercury Living Presence is something wonderful for your ears. I discovered this a few years ago, when I bought a Chabrier CD with Paul Paray and the Detroit Symphony Orchestra recorded in 1956. That CD blows away everything else in my collection. I put it in my car stereo and turn it up and never get tired of how fantastic it is. Thanks for the great video which told me a lot I did not know.
Glad to hear that!
Joe Palooka You’re talking about the Detroit Symphony Orchestra? They were the same Orchestra before they did the arrangements for so many Motown recordings along with the Funk Brothers during the 1960’s and 1970’s. DSO did many of the albums for Mercury’s Living Presence label before they did many of their hits for Motown including the Temptations, the Four Tops, Smokey Robinson & the Miracles, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, and many more.
Thank you for bring up these information on 35mm tape. I have two 192/24 flacs that are from Everest Record's 35mm tapes. They sound fantastic!
The high sampling rate really brings out the level of detail in the sound (but probably not all of it just an approximation) of 35mm ultra Analog but I urge you to try a comparable all tube 180gm vinyl pressing from Classic Records which was captured at the same time as they remastered the 35mm tapes to 192/24. They used an original Westrex 35mm 1551 playback deck fitted with new heads.
Fantastic. I have two albums, both from 1961, by Dinah Washington and Brook Benton. They are not Living Presence, but they sound absolutely terrific. On the reverse side, they have the microphones used and they were recorded at the Fine Recording Studios in New York, with George Piros as mixer. He worked with Robert Fine and Wilma Cozart on Mercury Living Presence recordings. No wonder they sound amazing.
If you have the appropriate player and setup, I recommend getting these recordings in SACD: you get one microphone per speaker - left, center, right - it's ideal!
A wide selection of the Everest 35mm recordings which originally developed the medium for stereo recordings are available on DVD-Audio ( Classic Records) and SACD now from King Records Japan which offer front three channel sound exactly as recorded or straight two channel stereo which the LP or open reel purchaser heard 1959 to 1961. There is one beautiful Everest Susskind/LSO recording of Copland's Appalachian Spring transfered to SACD by Sony on Vanguard.
I have a few 35mm records, they sound fantastic, and I collect original Murcury Living Presence records, and reel tapes.
Good job!!
@@anadialog Hi, what's the situation with regard to reel to reel and Mercury. A sort of four track stereo tape craze has grown on me just recently (sign of old age?) and one I'd really like to hear on tape would be the Eastman Rochester Gershwin Cuban Overture/Rhapsody in Blue/Eugene List piano, conducted by Howard Hanson.
Hi there and welcome aboard! Well I can tell you that they are very sougth after hence the prices are quite high but you can still find them on ebay
Great video. I have the CD reissued series. The sound, even for CDs, is quite incredible!
I believe that! Thank you for sharing.
Excellent Video. A couple of months ago I back to listening vinyl, and since then I have been learning a lot with you about analogue music. Thank you very much, A hug from Brazil.
Thank you so much Anderson!
Just found this video after watching your latest video on pre-recorded reel to reel tapes. I have a CD by a band called Mercury Rev which says it was mastered from 35mm film tape.
Cool! I have a few CDs of them, I did not know that!
@@anadialog - thanks mate. Album is ' Deserter's Songs' by Mercury Rev. Says on back of CD case..."original master recorded on 35/ mm magnetic film". Also a logo on back... STEREO 35 MM. Hope this helps.
@@anadialog - thanks mate. Album is ' Deserter's Songs' by Mercury Rev. Says on back the masters 35mm magnetic film, and a logo... STEREO 35 MM. Hope this helps.
Try listening on SACD format if you possibly can. As well as higher resolution, this will give you the option of three-channel playback, as originally recorded. it's stunning!!
I was told by a recording engineer years ago that some LPs on the Fontana label from the '60s and '70s were pressed from Mercury masters. These are still occasionally available for peanuts in second-hand shops and can sound pretty good. If it features conductor Antal Dorati, amongst others, it's a fairly safe bet you'll have a Cozart/Fine recording.
Westrex was an arm of Bell Labs, the Telephone monopoly (AT&T). They were instrumental in many audio improvements in the 20th Century.
Interesting!
Including the stereo disc cutter in 1954 or a bit later?
@@dfddwm I'm pretty sure they did most of the Research and Development.
I read that the sprocket holes can get worn or chewed up (over time) on those old 35MM tapes, causing speed problems. So I wonder if that's why the use of it was curtailed?
Could be, but I think mainly for the cost. It was a large expensive tape.
Most of the 35mm Everest Magnetic Film masters were only used once or twice after the first LP issues all subsequent releases coming from half inch or even quarter inch stereo dubs. No wonder the sound quality plus poor cheap pressings were so poor! When Vanguard acquired the rights and original tapes for the first remastering to digital in the 1990s they reported that apart from a little stretch at the beginning and a few parts of some reels the 35mm masters were in excellent shape. These issues have been addressed by the latest Japanese re-mastering using laser speed controlled playback decks. I like the bit of wow and flutter on the 2000s Classic Records remastering to DVD-Audio which is SACD equivalent because it authenticates the original sound. Plus the Hollywood team of Bernie Grundman that did the remastering rebuilt the original playback equipment and conferred on these DVD-A reissues a sound that probably most closely approaches the originals.
Thank you for this explanation. You forget one important fact about the 35 mm tape: the speed is higher, about 45 cm/sec. Secondly, the film tape was the first multitrack sytem. For films the tracks were used for the separated recording of dialog, music and soundeffects. Besides that, film studios worked with multiple recorders/players that ran in sync with the picture see 7 min 25 sec at the left. Later we used 4 and 6 tracks on the same tape. You only needed to change the heads on the machine.
First became aware of 35mm recordings with the Mercury CD reissues (1990's?) which if I remember were supervised by Wilma Cozart Fine. I've since found a bit of original 60s vinyl that was mastered from 35mm. Not a technical expert but 35mm may be the finest recording format that's ever existed.
Yes!
The Mercury Living Presence recordings are superb! Thanks for this very interesting video.
There some Sinatra albums recorded on 35MM mag film. We need those reissued in hi rez formats.
True!
How did they edit 35mm tape? With normal magnetic tape editing was easy: cut and stick. But how did they this with perforated tape? Was it the cause that most recording studios didn't use it?
I am not sure actually but I think you may have hit one of the biggest issues with it.
We can add that in USA
there were occasions where film sountracks wete 0ut on records
.
WARSAE CONCERTO
by "Addenzel" was a composion released by Columbia tecords taken aovie soundtrack, instead of being 14:25 done over in a trcord studio. There were other movie sound tracks also done.
But no record company did originals on f8lb, only released mayerial from movies that way.
I would reccomend from Mercury Living Presence the almost integral of Bela Bartok's orchestral production conducted by Antal Dorati. The London Symphony Orchestra and (to a less extent) the Philarmonia Hungarica were the orchestras. The "Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta" version is among the best performances of this work you can find.
I do beleave all these recordings (vinyl and CD) come in a dedicated red-colored box.
Thanks for the input Ventura!
Another excellent video, you just keep getting better & better👍
Thanks very much for this excellent well researched video I had always wondered what the background of this format was,now I need to try and source some.
Thank you Mark!
Cool video! I got some mercury presence albums : Prokofiev, Bartok...and one pop album : Esquivel - More of other Worlds, Other Sounds and in point of fact, the sound is huge! A must have!
Thanks for sharing your experience and record suggestions Jacques!
Another great video! One of my favorite channel's
I'm surprised you didn't touch more on the command label releases
I have a question. On my Mercury records it says on the liner notes that it was recorded monaurally and stereophonically. Does that mean there were two master tapes? If that is so, did any of the other labels have this?
Yes, in those days the actually had two machines running to make both mono and stereo. Most major labels during the 50's and 60's did this. In fact mono recordings of those days are in most cases superior to the stereo version just like for the Beatles and the Rolling Stones! I made a video on this topic but I am sure you've seen it: th-cam.com/video/m6q2JBOiD80/w-d-xo.html
@@anadialog I suspected as much. I have two stereo recordings. Sarah Vaughn (with some great musicians) and Dinah Washington (not the mono recording which is a different album). They are Mercury. The only thing is, that their voices come only from the left channel. Annoying to say the least. I looked on Amazon and there is a seller who has the mono version of Sarah Vaughan (cheap). I'm going to get it, and I am sure that I will be pleased. Incidentally, when I saw this video I got a mono cartridge! Ciao, Guido.
Yes, I hate those early stereo recordings where you just have channel separation, not true stereophony.
Westrex, aka Western Electric, had created one of the two optical sound systems used for sound on film with a exciter light reading lines, waves and/or bars to get sound. RCA was the other, so you can see why they tied up after WWII and developed 35mm magnetic sound on film. Magnetic tape was invented by German industry and became a worldwide spoil of the war. The sprocket perforations stopped the tape from slipping, so for film, it made sound editing much, much better. This extended to 16mm and Super 8 filmmaking and you can see how this works if you watch John Travolta in the brilliant Brian De Palma thriller BLOW OUT (1981) where he plays a movie sound recordist. In one great sequence, he is trying to sync up his magnetic audio with a silent film. Sprockets or not on the magnetic tape, you'll get the idea.
Wow, more great information, thank you! I had no idea that 35mm film was used for audio recordings! The location of that photo of St. Basil' s Cathedral where their van was parked is most likely footsteps from where I proposed to my fiance'.👍
Wow!!
Interesting, I never heard groove echo as an effect of the tape, rather it was the effect of the lacquer material bring pushed a little from one groove to the next.
you must have a massive house if your other room is 100 km away.loving your work .ciao
Not that massive...thanks!
an excellent video more please!
I’ve got the Mercury Living Presence Nutcracker suite recorded on 35mm tape. I used to use Beta Max tape and record hours and hours of music for cheap compared to my 10” real to real tape with great results.
Nice! Did 2 vids on VHS and its hifi capabilities: th-cam.com/video/cnD_h5BVLec/w-d-xo.html
Did Mercury ever release the Living Presence albums on open reel?
Yes, I have a few 4 track 7.5ips releases
@@anadialog Do those sound better than the vinyl versions? I'm guessing they probably do...
Would love to see a list of available recordings in this 35mm format.
Good idea...I will try to do that in the future...!
This was really terrific. I collect Command and London Phase 4 records. I have 1 living presence and 1 or 2 Everest records.
I just love my ducks Seventh Son and The Tonight Show Band CDs and the original Masters was recorded on 32-track digital equipment
What’s your opinion on Mercury CD’s compared to the vinyl ?
Just can't stand the comparison. The vinyl editions are miles ahead in every way...
If u used a top notch tube CD player and played the latest mercury CDs mastered with DSD process results will be even better than vinyl esp on fast piano on the inner LP tracks. Vinyl has inherent inner groove distortion caused by compression and this is compounded by the tracking angle error of most tonearms unless a tangential arm is used. And fast piano is the acid test of these anomalies.
Are you old enough to remember the old Gerard Zero 100 turntable with supposed zero tracking error ? Many people at that time said it was a solution to a non problem. I had a Sota turntable with Syrinx PU 3 arm with a Talisman cartridge , nice set up for the times but again I just couldn’t deal with the rice krispee pops off the LP .@@2mikelim
@@michaelkennedy4444 I am. I was in fact using the ancient rabco st7 tangential arm which sounded thick and slow. I upgraded to the HK rabco st9 with an extremely transparent arm but the platter speed needed frequent adjustment. Those modern 5 figure megabucks tangential setups are beyond me. So explored CDs and tube CDPs with an aim to achieve vinyl sonics at fraction of the cost.
@@2mikelim In the end it boils down to speakers , what are you currently using ?
Yes.... I picked up a 1962 F:35 "Music in Depth" sampler LP.... just being curious about the recording technology. And I was astonished by the sound!!.... it's a MONO LP, but I swear it has depth and width, great dynamic range.... and NO tape hiss at all. It's remarkable. While it's all big band style music of 1962, it's still enjoyable, and I constantly impress people with this record. I have found 2 other F:35 albums since, and one is great, and the other not so good... I think it was either a poor pressing, or simply worn out by someone's heavy stylus....
Cool! Thanks for sharing!
I have several Mercury Presence LP’s but never understood how their technology was different
Now you know! ;-)
You left out Enoch Light of “Command Records”. He was a pioneer of using 35mm for ALL of his recordings. Spectacular sound! Only my “East Wind” direct-to-disk records surpass the quality of Enoch’s Command recordings.
I didn't! 15:39 Gotta watch all the video before commenting ;-) Plus the album in the thumbnail of the video is by him!
The main point is that MOVIES are EDITED, and early on in Sound Film Era, sound was recorded on a Sound ONLY track.
Movies were taken at 24 frames per second, and the opticle sound track for a second of SOUND was SAME LENGTH as a SCOND OF PICTURE.
THE EDITING OF SOUND
1MAND PICTURE WAS "EASY" 1 TO 1 RELATION.
In late 50s the magneting film repaced optical film for sound..track.
The term was "full coat"
That is WHY 3tmm magnetic film was onvented.
Of course once the fillm was efited, the magnetic film was tranfered to optical film for thestre finished film.
Not relevant to this
but Eripean inveners of TriErgon movie sound system released 78s that
used their lm process for madtering.
The itonian used optical film recorder in the field that when edited made records
Many Italia record companies used Cine Coty studis using mivie for madter recors
>much as tape used
post war,<
for madtering. Large scale projects lik tecordins of full operas wete edited for yransfers to 78s
Thats the back story
to this 35mm magnetic
film.
I would like to hear the original three channel recording before it got mixed down to two channels. I think it would be cool to hear the third channel rather than a phantom 3rd channel created by two channel stereo.
If you go digital they released some SACD, super audio CD, with 3 channels!
Hi, you can get genuine 3 channel 35mm audio across L C and R speakers from THE Everest reissues on Classic Records DVD-A, King Records Japan SACD, or the single SACD produced by Vanguard before they folded of the Appalachian Spring.
hi magnetic film had 3 4 6 tracks i picked up some new heads for very low money wow is the word it's got alot of gain i am using them on one inch tape i have a
deck with bad head so i put a set on 3 on it i wow understand i sold all my film that came with the zonal 1 inch that was zonal to i just tryed the heads and so what they are like
they sound ace don't keep music on the tapes as the tape is used to fast love the sound of the heads wider than 8 track one in a track there are wider tracks a tape
It's not 35 millimeter tape. It was done using 35 millimeter film recorders.
Nope: obsoletemedia.org/35mm-magnetic-film/
hi zonal tapes were making 35mm tape i had some with my zonal 1 inch tapes i can tell you the 35mm got a lot of
out put. i tryed some one my otari wow is the word i know it costs big money 1 reel is about 22 min i don't
know the speed of the tape.
Thanks Bob for the info. I know that also Pyral produced it in recent years before closing...who knows what modern productions used it...undortunately nobody states the tape they are using when they adopt tape.
35mm goes at 18 inches per second, 90 feet a minute…
Its a pity records are Digital now , not a lot of people are aware of it but there is a lot of music that is Electronic which I an always attracted to .
That stylus has that tingle touch in the sound even 80s pop albums
Why? Digital recording is objectively superior to analog recording.
Ho Ho you are a beginner , you never heard an analog recording ?
Watch out for those ceramic turntables , they will shred you record groves .
I may comparatively be a beginner having only done this for about two years but I actually happen to be quite well informed and understand basic facts.
well there is some real advice for you . avoid salesman talk and other common media rubbish .
Papa Burgundy Not really. If executed properly digital recording is objectively closer to what the microphones heard. Analog can however introduce effects that are pleasurable to us.
Dolby automatic format compatibility. (Not automatic but..)
Lots of errors in this potted history. Fine bought the Everest equipment. The company itself in New York was dissolved and the label brand name and back catalogue/masters were sold off or divested to a Hollywood entrepreneur Bernie Solomon who had connections in the Diner Club Record Club business. Operating from small offices in Los Angeles Everest from 1962 onwards was to be a purely reissuing, licensing budget record label. Its general manager Gideon Cornfeld for a short time was able to create a few small recording projects, for example the extremely important series of three Gregg Smith Singers albums including "An American Triptych". The previously pioneering Belock (New York 1958-61) three channel 35mm and half inch tape masters remained stored in a Beverly Hills garage while Everest was churned out in poor quality vinyl from two track stereo dubbed standard quarter inch tapes throughout the 70s including early digital transfers in the 1980s. The true quality of Everest recordings in 35mm and its pioneering back story are preserved at Acoustic Sounds in America and in the vaults of BMG Music/Essential Media Hamburg where the Everest 35mm masters are currently stored. DVD-Audio, SACD, all vacuum Hi Q new vinyl (some at 45rpm) reissues are available. Harry Belock and Everest were the first to take out of the cinema where it was originally designed and perfect the 35mm sound recording process for hi fidelity use by improving the frequency range if the Westrex machines from 18k to 21k, designing special direct to cutting lathe equipment which avoided any dubbing of the three track master to a two track stereo stereo tape. A series of SACD three track 35mm is currently being undertaken by Empire Records of Japan utilising the very latest in laser guided transfer equipment to handle the sixty year old master tapes.
Thanks for adding this extra info!
Late to the table as usual; but I would add two notes of trivia. Everest failed largely because its parent company, Belock Instruments, was caught defrauding the government in its military contracts. A note on the back of early Everests bragged that Belock made underwater microphones for the U.S. Navy, which no doubt was the basis for the company"s recording expertise.
As Mr. Murphy states, after the company was dissolved and then acquired by Mr. Solomon Everest product devolved into notoriously shoddy reissue product pressed on noisy vinyl. The company even managed to outrage conductor Wilhelm Furtwangler's widow and had to withdraw its unauthorized Furtwangler Beethoven symphonies set issued on its subsidiary Olympic label. (Of course I have the set in my collection of audio horrors). Regarding the highly prized classical recordings, there was no attempt to replace worn stampers and fidelity continued to decline. A few Everests survived into the CD error on the Bescol label. They are best avoided. The only Everests worth collecting are the early "silverback" pressings, referring to the foil record jacket backs. Some even had inner sleeves supported by a wooden dowel.
Interesting...on this channel one is never late! :-)
@@geraldmartin7703 there is no mention of underwater microphones on any Belock LP and I have all of them plus the Classic Records reissues, a few reel to reel, etc. The immediate postwar early Cold War years of the 1950s were fertile with many speculative airforce, army and navy research and development projects from which Belock Instruments profited as well as a hand in missile development at White Sands Huntsville with the ex Nazi V2 scientists. The company's key area of expertise was missile guidance components and computer based radar and aviation control systems. At some point the Belock factory at College Point Queens NY was one of only three beryllium machining facilities in the USA for NASA and the USAF used for rigid mounting of guidance sensors in the Atlas ICBMs and Apollo space program. The company also did research into light sensors for star field navigation and the US navy project of underwater sonors to detect Soviet submarines. Among the microphones used in Belock recordings were the famous Neumann Church modified on loan from MGM Hollywood. Prior to moving to Sperry Marine in NY, focusing on inertial guidance, early analog computer fire control systems, later early computerised missile flight simulators, Harry Belock cut his teeth in Hollywood as a sound engineer for MGM. These youthful experiences definitely motivated his rather playboy and extravagant launch of Everest Records in 1958 which was always bound to lose buckets of money - see also his involvement with Mike Todd and the Todd AO movie Around The World in Eighty Days. By the mid 1960s Belock Instruments had been delisted and was rescued by a share buyout by the Department of Defense at the same time it was taken over by another contractor Applied Devices. Finally Harry Belock went on to establish an engineering consultancy in NY.
But no Sam Cooke or Otis on the format!! Shiiiiitt!!!
It’s 35 mm Film… notice the sprocket holes… tape doesn’t have sprocket holes…
Yes, you are right, in fact in the past I changed the title.
Gotcha 😀
It's not tape, its film.
Nope, its tape! It isn't the cinematic types...its like it but not it. It true that a lot of people call it, erroneously, film...buts its tape. In fact it has a magnetic oxide on it. Film is developed and it is for images.
However the stock the oxide is on is film stock…
35mm magnetic FILM, please. NOT 35mm tape!!
Exactly!