Porsche royalty! Is the 911 R really worth TEN TIMES more than the Cayman R?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- Porsche has only ever used the letter R as a model designation three times - just twice in the modern era. The Intercooler's Dan Prosser compares the 2011 987 Cayman R with the 2016 991-series 911 R to find out what that letter means in Porsche speak.
The original 911 R of 1967 was the first 911 that Porsche built for racing. It remains one of the most sought-after 911s there is. So did Porsche make a mistake in 2011 when it used the letter R for a slightly more powerful, not very heavily uprated version of the Cayman S? And was the 911 R that followed five years later more deserving of the badge?
Andrew Frankel also discusses the original 1967 911 R and what made it quite so special.
Read the written comparison test here - www.the-intercooler.com/libra...
#porsche #porsche911 #porschecayman
0:00 Introduction
0:31 Porsche Cayman R
5:18 Porsche 911 R
8:43 Conclusion
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Lovely to see my old Cayman R (I was the first owner!) on the screen!
Must be a fantastic feeling seeing your old car become immortalized on TH-cam.
Only possible excuse for selling would be to fund a LCC rocket 🤠🤔🙌
Out of curiosity, what did you replace it with?
Did you have temporary insanity 😂
Having had 993, 996, 997 and 991s, including a GT3 and an RS, I now own a Cayman R and could never imagine selling it. For a pure driving experience, the chassis is truly exceptional, especially for mere driving mortals like myself. The 997 GT3 RS was amazing, but never a car I could use everywhere.
Perhaps you should drive a 992 911 s/t and see if the R is still superior....
@@leonardsiragusa6675 I have just found one for sale at £495,000. For that money you would hope it would be superior.
@@leonardsiragusa6675 they cost more than ten times more and I could not use it in the same way as my CR. Fantastic, but ultimately pointless cars.
Drive a 718 Spyder if you can
The Cayman does not get the respect it deserves.
Caymans are sublime drivers cars.
I seconded this. 987 especially. They deserve more accolades.
Imagine Boxsters, that get shat on daily by morons.
yep, and for public roads, the 2.7 base model is really great because you can actually rev teh snot out of it without getting in to ridicioulous speeds.
Sure you will be speeding, but its not silly speeds ...
Use all the revs on the bigger engines and you will be doing things that are simply obnoxious on anything but an empty highway
@@stijnvandamme76I’ve had 987.2 Cayman 2.9 and 981 Cayman 2.7, if you Rev it all out you will attract criminal liability rather than just a mere speeding fine. The S has more torque low down but after extensive test driving of 3.4 the different is on the marginal side and could be virtually impossible to distinguish between the two engines under normal driving conditions. Under full load the 3.4 shows its advantage but it’s nothing to justify the premium. I get your point but you can keep up with a 3.4 in most driving conditions, the 3.4 is not fast either.
@@stijnvandamme76 Agreed! Had a 2.9 6spd and the speeds it generated were jail worthy. Currently a 2.7 5spd and the gearing is perfect for actual driving fun as 3rd pulls hard from 40 to 105 which is plenty fast enough. Roads here in E. Texas are narrow, twisty and have a lot of elevation changes because of the creeks flowing into the river. It's small sports car heaven!
I loved my Cayman R, owned it for six years. The fact its even in the same video as a 350k car shows how good they are. Underrated for sure.
I've always thought a Cayman R was a lot of car for the money. They have been 40-45k for a few years now. The 911 R is special, though I always thought that those who bought them new must have been pissed when the 991.2 gt3 touring came out. Imagine a new Cayman R based off the RS but with a manual gearbox.
Owned, tracked and NC500'd my Cayman R for 5 years. A special car and unlike 991R few spend time in a collection and are properly used...mainly because they're not silly money!
Boxster Spyder (987)and Cayman R’s are future classics mark my words. They are going to get really expensive.
Got a 987S from Brumos in 2010. Did the driver Ed with Hurley Haywood... Great day! 42k on odo to begin. Now at 485k post Bilstein R9 s, Gt3 manifold, light weight flywheel, flash the chip, fabspeed headers via stock exhaust... 19" turbo wheels... Original engine.. NEVER opened up... CHG spark plugs about every 60k... Oh added beautiful machined aluminum short throw adjustable shifter in exchange for original plastic... 0-60 low 4's... No leaks... Is all of that on the on ramps. Best car I've ever had... Prior 944, 944turbo, 944 turbo S and 968. Highly recommend. No issues with IMS. CHG OIL AND FILTER every 5-6 k. Great Car...FULL STOP!😊
@@johnrussell3986 fantastic car for sure. With those mods I bet it’s incredible fun.
I think the 981 generation is going to be even more sought after, but I agree about the 987 as well.
@@johnrussell3986485k km??? Really?? That'd nuts
@@MegaNardmanI think so too. 981 is produced at such a low number, and is the last good sounding flat 6 with that howl outside of GT3 and GT3 RS since 2017. The 4.0 flat 6 in 982 GTS4.0 and GT4 and Spyder just don't sound as good nor have that iconic howl (still sounds miles better than most other choices on the market granted).
981 GTS and 981 GT4 will be highly sought after imo
I’ve owned an R for nearly 5 years now, it’s awesome. Dailyed it for a year when I first got it and it performed admirably. I was under the impression there was more than the 1300 they were talking about made as there is 560 odd in the USA 200 in the U.K. alone. They also missed it has the lighter doors from the GT3 of the time.
It’s a great real world car, and the issue is it’s so good that the amount of money you’d have to put to the next step up seems to much!
Obviously the 911 R is going to be better but it is going to be 7-8x better ?! As 300k plays 40k
I think Caymans are the most underrated sports cars out there. I had a Gen 1 and then a Gen 2 987 Cayman S and both were utterly brilliant in every way. The combination of accurate steering, well judged suspension/damping, grip, performamce, noise, practicality and affordability is unmatched for my money. They are relatively frugal and resonable to maintain aswel. I wish I'd never sold them. Maybe I'll have to sell a kindney and buy an R before they go through the stratosphere and start getting added to collections.
The 911R is my lottery car. I have a Cayman S with a few tweaks to it, a diff is going in at the end of the year and then it will virtually be Cayman R spec which is always another option. In fact, influenced by the 911R, I'm putting a lightweight flywheel in too, I'll be all in for about 15 grand! Anyway great video, thanks boys
I have the Cayman R with the LSD and the a lightened flywheel. It is a truly incredible drivers car.
Only other real difference is the lightweight aluminium doors which can be found on a 997 Turbo/GT3. I'm sure they'd be a pain to swap but it can be done
@@gazman9468 the key differences are the LSD, slightly uprated and lower springs, the lightened doors and the carbon buckets.
If you want to do all of those aftermarket you are probably close to £8-10k or even more.
We have a cayman R pdk with Carbon Fibre racing seats apparently around under 300 were made. Would love a 911R ❤
As a 987 Cayman S owner, Cayman R is the only car I want more.
swap in an LSD and modify your suspension to the same spec and you’ll essentially have a Cayman R for half the price
Great video guys.. Most interesting.. Be interesting to see the 991 R against a 991 Turbo S
Owned my manual cayman R for 8 years now. It’s been one track, all around Europe, the Nurburgring and the IOM TT. As standard they’re great but give them a few subtle tweaks and they’re seriously impresssive.
Way more special than the sum of its parts and to be honest, the financial jump to anything better just doesn’t make sense. I would have to spend a significant sum of money to get me out of it and into a GT3, of which arguably is only marginally better for 99% of the type of driving most of us do.
Yes the 911 is “better” without doubt, but not that much better and it would have to be a GT3 to make it worth it.
Anything less than that just wouldn’t feel as special as the R does.
I think people are only now starting to appreciate the Cayman R, and it’s finally getting some wider recognition.
Great vid gents. 👌🏼
987.2 Spyder and Cayman R may not appeal to those who just look at the spec sheet but they do appeal to those that know and appreciate the outcome of those subtle changes - As this video concludes, on the road even the most special of Porsches does not offer much more if anything.
Personally I think if you get what the Cayman R offers you will find that the 987.2 Spyder adds an extra layer of 'special' in driving and ownership
Had my R for 6 months and will never sell. Incredible cars 😍
Same here since Jan ❤ so I'm reading all the fools comments 😅
very informative thank you
Cayman R is so underappreciated. Many car reviewers back then weren't too enthused by minimal increase of power and weight reduction, but I think the suspension updates and the fact that it can now be had for as low as GBP40k (which for a rare lightweight Porsche is a huge bargain) should be considered for anyone looking for their first lightweight Porsche. Also, hasn't the 987 Cayman's design matured so well these days? I especially like the 987.2. Looks so lithe and simple.
That 991R though. Still on my top 3 favourite 911 along with 991.2 GT3 manual and 991.2 Speedster.
Cayman R hands down THE one.
I have had a dream for the last 20 years to buy myself a 911 GT3 Rs and been working my ass off to be able to afford this car one day. When the 911R was presented in the Geneva motor show back in 2016, I thought…Gosh this is the ONE. But then the prices went to the moon and the dream car was unthinkable. Then the Gt3 touring come along in 2018 and the price tag of the 911R starts to come back to a « normal » and more reasonable level. Last year I found the ONE, the pearl with only 80km….I agree with you, and feel very very fortunate to own a 991R as the only car I would accept to own for ever. I will never put it one a track and will never sell it but at least I DRIVE IT every time I can. I find sad that people don’t drive these very special cars meant to be driven hard on B roads….
So is the Cayman R a half price GT4 but long term better value due it it's scarcity? I would have one in a heartbeat!
Brilliant piece. I wish I could afford a 991R but I can’t but can see a 987R in my future.
Cayman R should be called GTS! Nice car
I agree, and I owned a Cayman R for few years and had nothing but love for it. It is in the end, however, not that different than a regular Cayman S, which says a lot about how good a regular Cayman S actually is. An “R” the Cayman R is not.
I'm a mobile car cleaner, and was asked to clean a 911 R back when the bubble was so ludicrous that a quick google search would suggest they were worth 800 grand. As cool as they are, it was hard not to think how wasted it was. The owner bought it because it was their dream car, but then never drove it. It had a PPF wrap, and was kept in a giant carrier bag (carcoon), and never driven. Yet another investment when it was designed as the ultimate *driver's* 911.
I always think these garage queen cars are only ever going to be shared amongst other garage queen idiots. You can try and preserve the value as much as you want but don't tell me you're a "car person" if you never drive it. There is a Jaguar Project 8 for sale at the moment with Dick Lovetts that has had 2 owners...yet has only covered 264 miles! Neither of those owners can truly say they've known or really experienced that car having covered such a pitiful number of miles.
Great video. Here’s the thing …. There are actually fewer rhd tourings on the road in the UK than 911 R…….
Is that so?! Crikey. The Touring really is special then…
Yeah, but over here in CH tourings seem to have grown on trees.
1500 ish tourings made va 911 911r’s.
Hence I refereed to the UK. Only 46 in the uk vs 50 911 R
I totally agree with you Dan, the 911 R is just perfection. If I could only ever have one special car I would also go for a 911 R (Or it's successor, the 911 S/T because of the nicer interior)
One thing the 911R has over the later Touring is that lightweight flywheel (which was optional I believe). Not sure about the gearing or final drive without looking it up. I think that can make quite a difference to the experience. I think I'd rather have a newer 911 S/T even if it's uglier but because of the purity of the lack of rear wheel steering. It's hard to argue with the Cayman R for the money though. If you're only driving on the road do you really need much more car than that? I missed out on getting one and have a manual 718 GT4 instead, but I still sometimes think about the Aqua Blue Cayman R I didn't go buy years ago.
The point about steering though I know journalists have probably collectively decided not to harp on and on about hydraulic steering over electric, but in terms of the fizzy feeling a car gives you the newer steering while very direct is a step backwards and numbs some of the sensory experience of driving a Porsche. I say this currently owning a 996 Turbo and also more recently that 718 GT4. I would bet money that if you're just popping to the shops for an errand that Cayman R will actually be more interesting to drive in some ways than the 911R which may need quite a bit more speed to feel alive in the same way (though maybe I'm selling it short).
Copy and paste the reply I gave to a fellow enthusiast who asked about my Cayman R:
I would suggest that the Cayman R is one of the purest driver’s cars that Porsche has ever built.
Start with a mid-mounted naturally aspirated Porsche flat-six. Then you have the excellent manual six-speed (can easily improve even further with Numeric cables and shifter), the last of the hydraulic steering, LSD, lower/stiffer springs, more downforce, and lighter weight. In addition, you have the special touches - GT3 doors and pull handles, no hood over the gauges, contrast color exterior bits, and what I consider the most beautiful Cayman design. You can get some of this with other Caymans, but only the R provides it all!
Andrew- with all due respect I’ve driven a 911 R and it’s a great car, but I’ve also driven a McLaren 675LT and I’m not sure if there is a better, more focused car ever made that also works brilliantly on the road. Anyways, it’s your video and I usually am in agreement, but certainly not in this particular case.
Great video but the editing felt off on this one. The audio cuts really stood out. I never felt this way in the previous videos!
Dan, as usual very informative and very well presented on two fabulous vehicles, thank you.
I loved my CR! But I think the best value is to find a 987.2 S. The CR is not significantly different and the CS can be found for 50% the price of the CR. CS is the value in the Porsche world IMHO.
Cayman R is basically a 987 Cayman GTS equivalent.
Which is great. But i feel the 981 GTS and 981 GT4 will be the most sought after. Both of them still have that iconic flat 6 howl that even naturally aspirated flat 6s are missing since the 2017 model year, EXCLUDING the GT3 engine which is the only one that retained that howl.
The simole fact is the 4.0 NA flat 6 used in 718(982) GT4 and GTS4.0 just dont sound as good nor have that iconic hollow like howl in its sound characteristics due to hiw the engine is designed (still miles better sounding than most other options at that price granted(
Love my launch year Cayman S, I will never sell it, but hoping to add a GT4 RS to the stable at one point
Superb informative piece of film, and 2 wonderful Porsches. Even though the Caymen R is based on an S, you have to appreciate Porsche executed the changes they made with careful deliberation. All of which enhanced the driving experience. There was no need to overdo it, the car was never going to have big bhp, so they concentrated on chassis and balance enhancements.
The 911 R, well what a thing. Yet honestly in the real world I would like a more understated appearance. Red stripes on a white car look superb and instantly defines the model, but for the money a nice 991 GT3 touring for more modest money makes so much sense and value to me. No doubt the 911 R is a wondrous thing, but more for the conscientious collector.
Guy's guy's guy's, always enjoy the videos.
It's a real pity for the Cayman R that Porsche didn't at least change the bushings a little and, most of all, fit the larger bore brake MC that was sitting on the shelf and used in the 997 4S/Turbo/GT3. The latter mostly fixes the most obvious short coming with all 987s and one not mentioned in this video, the mushy brake pedal. It would basically have cost Porsche nothing. That they didn't do it I think says something about the ethos behind the car. It's still a very good car, but it was a fairly half hearted / arsed effort by Porsche.
It depends on your body type, but for me the old folding buckets that were in the Cayman are superior to the full carbon fixed ones in the 911R. Yes, they aren't as low, but they are significantly less upright (which is interesting considering being "too upright" was a complaint here about the seats that are the least upright of the two) and hug a slender-ish body type a lot better than the full carbon ones which seem designed with the US market in mind...especially on a racetrack that is noticeable, as is the extra upright-ness when wearing a helmet. Plus, on a car without a cage, you can actually use the space behind the seats with the folding buckets. The carbon ones are a right nightmare to try and stuff something as big as a piece of carry-on luggage behind. Oh, and the seat cushions are more comfy on the old ones too! Basically I did a straight swap with someone and replaced the carbon seats in my GT3 with the folding ones. Happy days.
Interesting. These things are very subjective! I found the 911 seat superior in every way, but the Cayman was hardly terrible in that regard. DP
The Carbon seats found in the Cayman R and 987.2 Spyder are selling for $18,000 !
Have a very low miles, peridot green, manual, Cayman R with all the right options, absolutely love it.
I have a 0 option 2006 cayman s with 165k miles. I love it
@garethstears definitely THE colour to have!
Meteor grey as well@@user-qn6yt3zx3w
The Cayman R should have been called a CS.
Both nice cars. A little bit hyped for the sake of a badge and subtle tweaks to the cars they are based on. Enjoyed the review, less so the twaddle at the end.
Seeing the title I came into this video a bit skeptical - on the face of it, seems a bit mean to compare these cars given the completely different design brief and prices ... money no object the 911R is a no brainer - but on their own merits, pound for pound, the Cayman R is the one for me, not least I suspect their owners drive them as intended!
Heres a question for you. For about the same money as the 991R you could also have a 991.2 Speedster which is even rarer. Which do you choose??🤔🤔
Great content as usual. Thanks Dan and Andrew.
I can understand why the purists, and I’m guessing many that haven’t actually driven one will always look down on the Cayman R as a warmed over Cayman but you have to remember that Porsche was never going to allow the Cayman to be given the proper R/GT treatment as it would have made it faster, and more capable of outperforming a few of its big brothers in the 911 range which wouldn’t have sat well with 911 owners/customers and taken sales from the more expensive 911, the Cayman R was always pegged back deliberately. I do agree that the Cayman R should have been named the Clubsport. But having the wrong letter on its tailgate doesn’t stop it being an a brilliant analog driver’s car. There are only around 100 manual cars in the UK, and at around £40k they are a bargain for such a rare and special car
I’ve got a Speed Yellow R that will be going up for sale soon in the UK if anyone is interested?
Check out 2012 Cayman Black Edition
991.1 R certainly the most appealing 911 of the last 10 years. Would be impressed if it's actually better to drive than a 996.2 GT3, which for me is peak 911.
The problem was the chassis wasn't that stiff with the 987 R - hence the 981 GTS was far superior.
The 991 GT3 which I own as a daily driver compared to 992 GT3 is so much better on the English B Road, the suspension is so much more compliant, the 992 I drove tram-lined and until over 70mph was far to hard, I have driven Cayman R and it was a delight, but I can’t get on with its styling it just looks odd. I have been fortunate to have been driven in a 991R and it certainly rides beautifully why oh why they have had to make 992 so hardcore it took away any pleasure at normal road speed and conditions.
For the Money it's the Cayman R. I love my Cayman and I consider it what a Lotus would be like if built by Porsche.
Cayman has come of age. It’s spirit is like older 911. Current 911 too bloated.
Glad to own a GT3 Touring 😊
Been a while since I've watched something filmed on an iPhone 4.
Driving these cars to the max, pushing it closer to the limits in the track, is not really a good proposal, value wise because you know that it will be valuable in the future. Instead, I just modified my 987S and currently weighs 2900 lbs with bucket seats and improvements for track use riding on coilovers and lots of camber. It really drives better than the stock CS and I am not affected by future resale value and can push it as much as I can without worrying about the resale. I am enjoying the drive.
Can someone search Prosser's history and see if he ever didn't pick the 911?
I own a Cayman R and will never sell it. There's nothing I dont love about it
911 for me, green stripes
No stripes for me.
Love both of these. Porsche could've called it the Cayman GTS and there wouldn't be any debate over it's identity.
The cayman R is a beautiful car but are the engines made out of paper like on the cayman s and the 997 range?
I would love to have a Cayman R in the launch color Peridot green. The 911R scares me because it's too valuable to drive.
911R no need to think about it
The 991.2 GT3 Touring eats both their lunches.
best kept secret ; ))
@@brianhimmelman420 Certainly is 😀
Currently stuck in an elevator. Thanks for the entertainment!
If they’d made a 981 or 718 GT4 R then that would have been as special as a 911 R
They made the gt4 rs
@@andrewciebrant5789 yes, but like the 991.1 GT3 RS that wasn’t available with a Manual, a GT4 R would have the full fat engine, softer dampers and no wings or splitters, then it would be as a 911 R is to a GT3 RS
After this video the value rises 20k lol
Hopefully 🤞🏻😄
Well they're not going to be 40-45K any longer are they?
Thanks to these two bozos
Smart money is on the Cayman R albeit the 911 R being the better car due to its GT3 engine and underpinning.
I would PREFER the 911 R, but I can AFFORD a Cayman R. Hahaha.
I thought the 911R was king bare bones with no rear wheel steering….
Ome last point... Im in Florida... I've maybe seen one or two 987s in the past 2 years. They are ALL being turned into tace cars. Lots of them at Sebring. They get wrecked there of course as well. If ya know what I mean...😂
I've Never Heard of the Cayman R until today 0_o
The 911R Paint Job makes it stand out from the Touring & GT3 S/T
The launch color was green and the car was in every modern Need For Speed game.
th-cam.com/video/YJPJxOndCXQ/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/wB5UDi2pYwE/w-d-xo.html
Always 911
The 911 R deserved the moniker.
As a 911R owner I enjoyed your click bait.
So many shots re-used in this video. I counted the one of the 911R taking a right hand bend 4 times in as many minutes 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The 911 has grown big and fat. Real sports cars are light and nimble. It’s the Cayman for me even though I can afford the 911.
I'd literally rather have a bog standard Ferrari 360 than a 911R. And a house too.
Cayman R is very nice and fun; 911R is ridiculous and only will sit in someone's collection - the worst part of it is taking a wonderful GT3 and making it less capable (no rear wing and less aero) and more bland looking.
The 987 isn't a true R car, its a 987 S with a body kit.
And not even really a body kit. Just the small rear spoiler and slightly larger front splitters from the Aerokit available on any 987 Cayman.
@@flat6croc like the 981S/gts. I may buy the sports design kit for my 981S!