@@TheElatedDwarf Once, a long time ago, T90 was playing a tournament -his first one? I'm not sure-, and he was on the Islands map. He thought of scouting his opponent's island to transport some vils and build some sneaky archery ranges on the back of the island. So he was scouting with a ship, found the island, and immediately transported some vils who built 3 archery ranges. Once they finished building, he realised that was not his opponent's island, but one of the tiny islands in the middle. That's, more or less, the story!
But you are not factoring in the psychological impacts that poorly placed farms have on the player. Every time I see that my farms are placed poorly, there is a part of me that thinks "it's okay if they get attacked, because I can build new ones and this time they will actually look pretty". A well placed farm increases morale by at least 25%
There's also the reverse psychological impact : horribly placed farms might confuse the opponent when he'll see them, and could give you an advantage while he's trying to figure out why you placed those farms this poorly
Cop's report: Crazy Florida man said "woo woo" when we turned on our sirens, rants about "T90 walls" and making "legends". He's going away for a long time. We're gonna get him checked out at the psyche ward first though. Also need to run "blue coffee" through the database and see if it's some kind of street slang or just the ramblings of a madman
Your videos are like scientific papers - complete with Introduction, Methods, Results, Discussion, Conclusion, and finally, Acknowledgements as well. Very entertaining and informative. Please keep up the good work! You almost single-handedly renewed my love for AoE2.
I would argue the true problem of badly placed farms is the space they take. If you have a smaller map or are stuck inside your walls you have to optimize farm placement
Spirit of the Law is lying to all of you. He knows you'll listen to 'em. "Oh yeah, yeah your farms are fine like that!" he says. Meanwhile at his base he's got perfectly placed farms and 3 more knights than you, and probably a monk already out there collecting relics.
I didn't actually realise that farms "grow" food until now! I thought they just spawn with all of it at once, like when you slaughter an animal, or collect from a berry bush, do fishfarms have the same mechanic?!
Yes, there is a lot DE could have done here that I feel was a missed opportunity. They clearly have the modeling budget considering all the other visual stuff they keep adding each update/event. In particular (though I admit this is more work than average) I would have loved to see a more basic form for the villager that is changed to the classic one once you get Loom; simply because Loom is such a important timing upgrade that it warrants proper visual feedback. Even from the POV of a spectator experience that would be a big deal. I would also have LOVED to see different visual stages for farms depending on which farm upgrade you have (just small variations with each stage getting a thicker growth). Maybe some extra tools lying around lumber/mining camps as you get upgrades for those, etc.
@@GepardenK To be fair, making the flashy unit changes might have been detrimental to the computer space. Also, the changes might be a bit divisive for some old school and retro gamers.
Totally agree, graphics should be useful not just fancy. Loom could update the villager to another (better) villager unit with better stats and different looks instead of changing stats, just like almost all military units. Also: berries, mines and farms could have something to show they are ending (like fire is used for the HP in buildings)
Wait, if Slavs farm 18% faster but the farm only grows 10% faster, does this mean that as Slavs for max efficiency you should build the farms, but leave them for a while before you start to collect? 🤯
Holy smokes that is some great game design right there! I dont know if this was intentional, but making it so that town planning really pays off in the early game where it is the focus, but is more lenient in the end game, where other things demand your attention, in this elegant a manner is really impressive!
Kinda as expected. Back when you talked about the value of the Ugprade, I noticed: What carry capacity does is offset the impact of imperfect walking distances. But usually you already optimized for walking distances.
Yeah, everyone asks food fast from the peasants, but no one asks how the peasants are. Maybe some have OCD and you make them suffer by not giving them a good farm square farm placement.
Naw, with ideal farms you have no place to throw a couple of teutonic towers inbetween to hide there in case of emergency rather than running toward TC ;)
The decreased efficiency of farms comes from the time that the villagers need to drop the collected food into the mill. They need to spend time to do this instead of gathering more food. That is why the hand cart is crucial: it reduces the time that villagers require to drop the food (by increasing the amount of food they can carry, effectively reducing the number of trips they need to do, and by increasing their movement speed). Since the displacement of farms due to poor allocation (compared to perfect/baseline) just slightly increases the time that villagers need to do a trip to the mill, the allocation of farms will have small negative impact on efficiency. The 14 year old me obsessed with AoE II would have loved these videos.
The farm growing food is so insane. They didn't need to do that. The fact that they made it so intricate as to allow farms to be placed farther from dropoff points without hurting efficiency, and also limit collection in the meantime is amazing. I just don't see the same level of detail going into newer games.
Yeahp, games from range 95 to 2005 are, to me, the best games by far. There is lots of them made by passion and heart. All my favourite games are from that era, I still play all of them from time to time... I don't play any newer game because they mostly are souless. So it was a big surprise to me discovering the game "Factorio", wich is so well done, and has that same vibe from the classic games.
There's something else that I think we all realise but it should be mentioned: in the early game, economy micro is the most important thing you can do. But in the late game, you aren't supposed to be paying as much attention to your economy anymore, because you should be constantly using your military. So this also means bad farms early on is just you playing badly, but bad farms later on happen because you had more important things to pay attention to.
The amount of respect we have for your channel is really high. You propably know it but, really, what you do is just incredible and essential. Thanks again SotL !
His intro tends to have one or two fragments specific to the video in question. So he probably picked the "House Tyrell" part for the subject of farms, and I don't think it will stick around for long, but it was great to see it again.
And SOTL, I wonder why high ranked players tend to place farm plots manually each time they exhausted, instead of auto-sowing them? Villagers usually stop for a second and do they work properly, and players can earn their time to focus on micro-ing!
These pros don't have resources in the bank. They spend resources as soon as they get them. Auto sowing takes a lot of wood. If they have too much wood, they relocate the villagers to other resources, the only time you see resources, is when they are saving for a research/upgrade.
I didnt even know that farms "grow". I thought they had a build phase like a normal building and then had to be rebuilt (meaning re-seeded) after a while
T90 proposed devs to give Japanese a buff. 11 Jokes apart, since we have Supplies, Samurai became a very very rare unit. Giving this unit a buff - like 1 more PA - so that they will be a bit more common would be great.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:22 🎶 *Introduction to Musical Segments* - The video begins with musical segments at 00:22 and 08:50. 08:50 🎵 *Continuation of Musical Elements* - The musical elements persist at 08:50, contributing to the overall audiovisual experience. Made with HARPA AI
SOTL, perhaps you could do a test on building a second ring of farms around an existing mill vs making a new mill with perfectly adjacent farms with higher efficiency.
There will be a significant drop in efficiency. The real question is whether that efficiency drop still exists for aztecs and slavs or whether they can get away with fewer mills late game.
I love that "Don't agonize over it...". It reminds my of myself, misplacing a farm, removing it and taking two ages to place it right... Or not reseeding just to make sure I place it alright the next time... resulting in me leaving ten villagers idle just so I can place a farm two inches nearer to the mill.
Thank you for another great video! Can you please do the analysis for the Supplies tech? It seems to be a common idea, that Supplies is a noob trap, and it'll be great to find out when is it worth getting it. The question is not trivial as resources have different value at different stages of the game and in game prices generally tend to inflate overtime. As well as some unique cases for some civs. I want to know when T90's SUUUPPLIIIEESS is justified.
I still hate that the devs decided to buff the militia line with that tech. It has the greatest benefit in Imperial, but champions were fine and have always seen plenty of use, especially against meso. Should have just given the whole line +1P or more HP, or reduced the cost without a tech requirement.
Ok wtf, so does this mean that if you want to collect even faster as slavs, you pre-build farms with 1 villager before sending vils on it to gather the food at +18%?
In other words in Early game I should build them close but after That I can make a 1 tile gap around my town Center so that the farms align and are pretty. And then get killed by the enemy for playing sim city
when analyzing the last one (e) - those farms are so far away you could cram in more farms around that mill (less mills to farm ratio gives you some efficiency).
Important to note this effect gets worse if you don't have carry upgrades (wheelbarrow, hand cart and heavy plough). A large part of the reason you don't see a large drop off is because the longer walking distance only happens every time the vil needs to drop off, if they take 20 actions and only one of them is a long walk this obviously compares favourably to taking 1 actions and one of them being a long walk. If they drop off more often they walk more so they spend less time collecting. Post-imp farming is probably the most important assumption made in the video. Farming upgrades make a more significant difference to inefficiently placed farms than to efficiently placed ones.
i didnt know farms had a grow rate, i always thought the villagers just collect from them and they despawn when done, so how does it actually work? the farm produces food and has it "stashed" if you will and that stash can fill up and then be emptied again by the villager, for example when theyre walking to drop of the food? and what decides when the farm then dissapears? also, im guessing this also means placing 4 farms arround a mill to increase efficiency actually doesnt really increase efficiency?(i do it as teutons because i usually play black forest so im swimming in wood anyway.
Pretty much. Farms fill up a "pool" of food at a given growth rate, that can then be collected by villagers at their given collection rate. The classic food counter you see on farms is not how much food the farm holds, but rather how much "food revenue" that can be produced in total from a farm before it needs to be reseeded.
1 castle surrounded by 4 tcs within a maximum of 1 farm distance either on the four sides or touching the four corners - a second castle within range of all 5 buildings if possible and a fifth tc on the other side of the castle - you will easily have room for 50 well protected farms
I think this actually is quite interesting; however it does beg to ask the question, what IS the most optimum way to place farms? When should you build a mill for the purpose and when do you just branch out from TC and berry mill?
I’ll add one comment on something obvious but not necessarily thought of, which is that poorly placed farms allow for less total space for farms. There have been a few scenarios where I threw out farms haphazardly just to save time (on maps like arena, and team islands) and later would be short on food with nowhere to put new farms from enemy pressure, ect. Putting two farms two spaces apart is already almost a guaranteed lost farming spot. Of course, this has to do more with base cleanliness in general than just farms.
Because it's basically like lumberjacks : when they're cutting trees (farming) they take the same amount of time on the tree (farm) whatever the distance to the drop off point. So, just as it's a good thing to build a new lumber camp when the trees are 4-5 tiles away, it's better to build farm closer to the mill, especially at a point in the game when the villagers are slower and carry fewer ressources
It was very relaxing to know that it is a bit more forgiving in imperial age as farms are usually placed with a super general round pattern of clicks...😂👍
I forsee a revolutionary new strategy - build farms, send the builder to gather other resources and wait for the food to grow, then move vills back onto the farms a couple of minutes later.
Taking notes, the isometric perspective biases me to place my farms 'optimally' on the left side, but the data shows that you should place them 'optimally' on the right side for a more efficiency.
Problem is your not getting the most out of the area of space being used, you can fit more farms in the same area if you place them as close together as possible
I'm surprised by the difference between the farm and farmers work rate. How much food can the farm be ahead of the farmer? - Would it make sense to build a farm and let it sit around to harvest later at the full farmer work rate?
what about collisions ... when the farms are packed together around a mill and we have two layers of farms, there seems to be quite a lot of collisions among the villagers slowing down both the villager that is collecting and the one who is trying to drop off the food to the mill... i prefer TC to layer up my farms ... and avoid mills for this reason
Ah I wish I could have seen where the 5 and 10% drops were for early game, as that's what I was basing my judgement on. Choosing top right as 5% and bottom left as 10
I can't play this game due to PC issues, so I still have to place each farm INDIVIDUALLY !!!! 😒😒😒 I NEVER knew about the "Shift + Click" trick in later versions of the game! 👀 Thanks, as always, SOTL for a helpful and entertaining video. 👍😁 Placement first, upgrades later - Got it! 👑
what about placing double layers of farms with one mill in the middle? How much % it would decrease overall collection rate? also including and excluding building time/costs.
I for one, have never been shamed for my farms.
Hmmmm
And you also forced devs to introduce new Khmer farming bonus. 11 11 11 11
Why would you anyway? :-D
I was about to bring a "T90 likes it", but... here we are, already. xD
Well from now on you can just point people at this video when they make jabs at you.
Next up: Building three archery ranges on a tiny neutral island isn't that bad.
11
Best comment so far!
*sponsored by T90 Official
What is up with that? I don’t understand why they are there.
@@TheElatedDwarf Once, a long time ago, T90 was playing a tournament -his first one? I'm not sure-, and he was on the Islands map. He thought of scouting his opponent's island to transport some vils and build some sneaky archery ranges on the back of the island. So he was scouting with a ship, found the island, and immediately transported some vils who built 3 archery ranges. Once they finished building, he realised that was not his opponent's island, but one of the tiny islands in the middle. That's, more or less, the story!
But you are not factoring in the psychological impacts that poorly placed farms have on the player.
Every time I see that my farms are placed poorly, there is a part of me that thinks "it's okay if they get attacked, because I can build new ones and this time they will actually look pretty".
A well placed farm increases morale by at least 25%
There's also the reverse psychological impact : horribly placed farms might confuse the opponent when he'll see them, and could give you an advantage while he's trying to figure out why you placed those farms this poorly
Hey guys SotL here, today I'm gonna find out how much does bad morale decrease the quality of the gameplay.
Well on average it's 24.74%.
OCD (Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, not Out of Character Development) is a real gamer problem, people!
You got an Excel chart to back that 25% claim?
That's just science. Everybody should know that.
This video has been sponsored by T90
XD
There are no poorly placed farms, only T90 farms :)
SotL, Blink twice if you're being held hostage by T90!
I can't tell, you are wearing sunglasses
Alternate thumbnail
"T90 farms?
No problem"
11
Finally, a video where Spirit doesn't tell me how bad of a player I am
Don't worry we will do that for him.
The only difference is practice, and you're just being lazy.
@@Namelesswhirl exactly, at least TRY to focus, Jon.
@@Namelesswhirl You know just as well as we do that that last game didn't go that well, now did it, Jon?
Yeah Jon! How many times has an enemy stormed through and destroyed that royal garden you took so long to plan?
You forgot the part that badly placed farms are irrelevant if you have idle villagers.
SotL has officially endorsed T90
It's T20
@@europeanpatriot8031 t-80
@@nvmtt The Supercar from GTA Online is named T20, not T90
@@nvmtt t-70
T 1000
Florida man grows mustache and becomes crazy, kidnaps fellow TH-camr
Underrated comment
That's why we need a wall between Canada and the US!
@@noradrenalin8062 Hasn't anyone learned of tunnels and airdrops?
Cop's report:
Crazy Florida man said "woo woo" when we turned on our sirens, rants about "T90 walls" and making "legends". He's going away for a long time. We're gonna get him checked out at the psyche ward first though. Also need to run "blue coffee" through the database and see if it's some kind of street slang or just the ramblings of a madman
@@ringofasho7721 Must be some sort of secret message to all Bill Cipher loyalists.
"Farm-shaming" XD - sorry, gonna have to steal that.
Your videos are like scientific papers - complete with Introduction, Methods, Results, Discussion, Conclusion, and finally, Acknowledgements as well. Very entertaining and informative. Please keep up the good work!
You almost single-handedly renewed my love for AoE2.
I would argue the true problem of badly placed farms is the space they take. If you have a smaller map or are stuck inside your walls you have to optimize farm placement
You forgot to mention the part where you say "T90 held me hostage in his basement! SEND HELP!"
Blink twice if yes
T90 is gonna love this video
Thats for sure🤣
Imagine if SotL invited t90 as a guest speaker for this video 11
Spirit of the Law is lying to all of you. He knows you'll listen to 'em. "Oh yeah, yeah your farms are fine like that!" he says. Meanwhile at his base he's got perfectly placed farms and 3 more knights than you, and probably a monk already out there collecting relics.
I see the conspiracy theories have reached the age community as well
@@officialtheearlybird It won't be a conspiracy when you find out all the relics have already been collected by the time you make your first monk!
Peter Early ooooh a Thunderdome profile picture!
@@viperxr3761 You got it!
Peter Early I never see em around so I was super surprised!
When he deletes the one farm he placed poorly, then accidentally almost placed a house instead.
Ouch. That felt like a personal attack.
I didn't actually realise that farms "grow" food until now! I thought they just spawn with all of it at once, like when you slaughter an animal, or collect from a berry bush, do fishfarms have the same mechanic?!
this q next
Yeh its kinda weird when you think about it.
@@Janovich well you eat corpse starch so for a Krieger to call that food source weird is truly surprising.
@@kellscarthechosen327 well aoe2 is deathkorps approved so there's that. Just spam grenadiers.
@@Janovich Shame there's no ability to dig trenches.
It’d be awesome if after researching handcart, every villager would be seen pushing an actual handcart : D
That's a good idea for a mod actually
Yes, there is a lot DE could have done here that I feel was a missed opportunity. They clearly have the modeling budget considering all the other visual stuff they keep adding each update/event. In particular (though I admit this is more work than average) I would have loved to see a more basic form for the villager that is changed to the classic one once you get Loom; simply because Loom is such a important timing upgrade that it warrants proper visual feedback. Even from the POV of a spectator experience that would be a big deal. I would also have LOVED to see different visual stages for farms depending on which farm upgrade you have (just small variations with each stage getting a thicker growth). Maybe some extra tools lying around lumber/mining camps as you get upgrades for those, etc.
@@GepardenK To be fair, making the flashy unit changes might have been detrimental to the computer space.
Also, the changes might be a bit divisive for some old school and retro gamers.
@@GepardenK Still, your idea deserves a thumbs up for me.
Totally agree, graphics should be useful not just fancy. Loom could update the villager to another (better) villager unit with better stats and different looks instead of changing stats, just like almost all military units. Also: berries, mines and farms could have something to show they are ending (like fire is used for the HP in buildings)
SOTL: Poorly placed farms.
Chat: Did you say T90?
Sotl, is T90 pointing a gun to your head, when you made this?
SoTL, blink twice if you're being held hostage.
Wait, if Slavs farm 18% faster but the farm only grows 10% faster, does this mean that as Slavs for max efficiency you should build the farms, but leave them for a while before you start to collect? 🤯
You probably only net a little food from that 4D chess move. But it's about sending a message to your opponent. :)
Actual crop rotation.
Yeah and let them hear some slav hardbass and patrol dance on their farms before that
th-cam.com/video/2KC5BqryRrA/w-d-xo.html - I like to think this comment inspired spirit to make that video! 😏
i THINK that the farms can only store 10 food at once, could be wrong tho
Sponsored and Endorsed by T90™
I’m always so impressed by your mathematic approach to these questions and your experimental design to solve them, well played!
SotL: "Poorly placed farms aren't all that bad."
Everyone in the comments: *Joking about T90*
T90 use his battle royal money to "convince" SOTL
Holy smokes that is some great game design right there! I dont know if this was intentional, but making it so that town planning really pays off in the early game where it is the focus, but is more lenient in the end game, where other things demand your attention, in this elegant a manner is really impressive!
Kinda as expected. Back when you talked about the value of the Ugprade, I noticed: What carry capacity does is offset the impact of imperfect walking distances. But usually you already optimized for walking distances.
Khmer: I see no difference
Ok sure, but you have to admit that perfect farm placement gives a significant boost to satisfaction.
Yeah, everyone asks food fast from the peasants, but no one asks how the peasants are. Maybe some have OCD and you make them suffer by not giving them a good farm square farm placement.
Wilhelm Roepke, is that you?
Naw, with ideal farms you have no place to throw a couple of teutonic towers inbetween to hide there in case of emergency rather than running toward TC ;)
The decreased efficiency of farms comes from the time that the villagers need to drop the collected food into the mill. They need to spend time to do this instead of gathering more food. That is why the hand cart is crucial: it reduces the time that villagers require to drop the food (by increasing the amount of food they can carry, effectively reducing the number of trips they need to do, and by increasing their movement speed).
Since the displacement of farms due to poor allocation (compared to perfect/baseline) just slightly increases the time that villagers need to do a trip to the mill, the allocation of farms will have small negative impact on efficiency.
The 14 year old me obsessed with AoE II would have loved these videos.
The farm growing food is so insane. They didn't need to do that.
The fact that they made it so intricate as to allow farms to be placed farther from dropoff points without hurting efficiency, and also limit collection in the meantime is amazing.
I just don't see the same level of detail going into newer games.
And still mamelukes throw cimitars. The magic of AoE
Yeahp, games from range 95 to 2005 are, to me, the best games by far. There is lots of them made by passion and heart. All my favourite games are from that era, I still play all of them from time to time... I don't play any newer game because they mostly are souless. So it was a big surprise to me discovering the game "Factorio", wich is so well done, and has that same vibe from the classic games.
Thank you for continuing to make these videos - hopefully TH-cam's compensation is super generous towards you. I love all of the things you produce
There's something else that I think we all realise but it should be mentioned: in the early game, economy micro is the most important thing you can do. But in the late game, you aren't supposed to be paying as much attention to your economy anymore, because you should be constantly using your military. So this also means bad farms early on is just you playing badly, but bad farms later on happen because you had more important things to pay attention to.
Bingo!
And even game balance is built to encourage that.
I love the t90 cameo at 8 minutes in. Was real neat to see him join this video
4:13 note thhe ad-friendly placement. I wonder if placing the right one in the south a tile further northeast would cause trouble with TH-cam ?
"Why poorly placed farms aren't as bad as you think"
*T90 liked that*
Of course he did. 11
The amount of respect we have for your channel is really high. You propably know it but, really, what you do is just incredible and essential. Thanks again SotL !
Did the intro always have "house Tyrell, growing strong" or is it new?
It's new haha... SOTL should do another video on the GOT scenario
His intro tends to have one or two fragments specific to the video in question. So he probably picked the "House Tyrell" part for the subject of farms, and I don't think it will stick around for long, but it was great to see it again.
Idk i guess you'll just have to watch them all and catch up for the continuity XD
And then it got invaded and afterwards slaughtered.
SotL's campaign was better than the show though, what with Season 7 and all.
I always wonder what topic you work on next.
I´m often surprised in a good way.
Awesome work as always from your side.
Making this video and not calling them "t90-farms" even once had to require so much restraint. Admirable
People only really get mad at terrible farm placement in team games like Black Forest because of “limited” space in the teams spawn
And SOTL, I wonder why high ranked players tend to place farm plots manually each time they exhausted, instead of auto-sowing them? Villagers usually stop for a second and do they work properly, and players can earn their time to focus on micro-ing!
These pros don't have resources in the bank. They spend resources as soon as they get them. Auto sowing takes a lot of wood.
If they have too much wood, they relocate the villagers to other resources, the only time you see resources, is when they are saving for a research/upgrade.
I didnt even know that farms "grow". I thought they had a build phase like a normal building and then had to be rebuilt (meaning re-seeded) after a while
SOTL, you can be honest with us, how much did T90 pay you? Kappa :D
Lmao
T90 proposed devs to give Japanese a buff. 11
Jokes apart, since we have Supplies, Samurai became a very very rare unit. Giving this unit a buff - like 1 more PA - so that they will be a bit more common would be great.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:22 🎶 *Introduction to Musical Segments*
- The video begins with musical segments at 00:22 and 08:50.
08:50 🎵 *Continuation of Musical Elements*
- The musical elements persist at 08:50, contributing to the overall audiovisual experience.
Made with HARPA AI
SOTL, perhaps you could do a test on building a second ring of farms around an existing mill vs making a new mill with perfectly adjacent farms with higher efficiency.
There will be a significant drop in efficiency. The real question is whether that efficiency drop still exists for aztecs and slavs or whether they can get away with fewer mills late game.
@@naphackDT but a new mill costs resources. How long does the inefficiency take until the break even point.
Seems to me that the biggest takeaway is that researching hand cart lets you double up all your farms at your existing TCs/Mills
I love that "Don't agonize over it...". It reminds my of myself, misplacing a farm, removing it and taking two ages to place it right... Or not reseeding just to make sure I place it alright the next time... resulting in me leaving ten villagers idle just so I can place a farm two inches nearer to the mill.
just play against ai and pause the game
@@mrosskne Sorry but I can't. It seems like cheating.. What will the AI think of me? 😀
@@calvinrunner4897 good news, the AI also cheats by controlling multiple units at once
Thank you for another great video!
Can you please do the analysis for the Supplies tech?
It seems to be a common idea, that Supplies is a noob trap, and it'll be great to find out when is it worth getting it.
The question is not trivial as resources have different value at different stages of the game and in game prices generally tend to inflate overtime.
As well as some unique cases for some civs.
I want to know when T90's SUUUPPLIIIEESS is justified.
I still hate that the devs decided to buff the militia line with that tech. It has the greatest benefit in Imperial, but champions were fine and have always seen plenty of use, especially against meso.
Should have just given the whole line +1P or more HP, or reduced the cost without a tech requirement.
Ok wtf, so does this mean that if you want to collect even faster as slavs, you pre-build farms with 1 villager before sending vils on it to gather the food at +18%?
Interesting question, gotta try this out. Same question for well placed regular civs farms, i guess.
Seems SOTL read this comment :D
Khmer mains: "I am beyond such petty concerns."
In other words in Early game I should build them close but after That I can make a 1 tile gap around my town Center so that the farms align and are pretty.
And then get killed by the enemy for playing sim city
I dont get one thing. Shouldnt this mean Khmer farmers are 3% slower than generic farm civs?
Now make video about how efficient is to place 3 archery ranges on an island
when analyzing the last one (e) - those farms are so far away you could cram in more farms around that mill (less mills to farm ratio gives you some efficiency).
I've got a different challenge for SoTL: How do the villagers survive a direct hit by the mill blade as, for example, seen at 1:01 - 1:12 or at 1:19?
Important to note this effect gets worse if you don't have carry upgrades (wheelbarrow, hand cart and heavy plough). A large part of the reason you don't see a large drop off is because the longer walking distance only happens every time the vil needs to drop off, if they take 20 actions and only one of them is a long walk this obviously compares favourably to taking 1 actions and one of them being a long walk. If they drop off more often they walk more so they spend less time collecting. Post-imp farming is probably the most important assumption made in the video.
Farming upgrades make a more significant difference to inefficiently placed farms than to efficiently placed ones.
i didnt know farms had a grow rate, i always thought the villagers just collect from them and they despawn when done, so how does it actually work? the farm produces food and has it "stashed" if you will and that stash can fill up and then be emptied again by the villager, for example when theyre walking to drop of the food? and what decides when the farm then dissapears?
also, im guessing this also means placing 4 farms arround a mill to increase efficiency actually doesnt really increase efficiency?(i do it as teutons because i usually play black forest so im swimming in wood anyway.
Pretty much. Farms fill up a "pool" of food at a given growth rate, that can then be collected by villagers at their given collection rate. The classic food counter you see on farms is not how much food the farm holds, but rather how much "food revenue" that can be produced in total from a farm before it needs to be reseeded.
1 castle surrounded by 4 tcs within a maximum of 1 farm distance either on the four sides or touching the four corners - a second castle within range of all 5 buildings if possible and a fifth tc on the other side of the castle - you will easily have room for 50 well protected farms
I think this actually is quite interesting; however it does beg to ask the question, what IS the most optimum way to place farms? When should you build a mill for the purpose and when do you just branch out from TC and berry mill?
Next video: three archery ranges on a neutral island is not that bad
I’ll add one comment on something obvious but not necessarily thought of, which is that poorly placed farms allow for less total space for farms. There have been a few scenarios where I threw out farms haphazardly just to save time (on maps like arena, and team islands) and later would be short on food with nowhere to put new farms from enemy pressure, ect. Putting two farms two spaces apart is already almost a guaranteed lost farming spot.
Of course, this has to do more with base cleanliness in general than just farms.
Because it's basically like lumberjacks : when they're cutting trees (farming) they take the same amount of time on the tree (farm) whatever the distance to the drop off point. So, just as it's a good thing to build a new lumber camp when the trees are 4-5 tiles away, it's better to build farm closer to the mill, especially at a point in the game when the villagers are slower and carry fewer ressources
Have you noticed that the windmills rotate in the opposite way? Look at the blades angle... it should go the other way!
Still better than T90's farms, JK xD
But what if the poorly placed farms are in symmetry? Like the low ELO legends
He did a video on that. Called the perfect square or something
th-cam.com/video/btwsrh7iEUI/w-d-xo.html
I was going to say T90 will be pleased but he's here already
It was very relaxing to know that it is a bit more forgiving in imperial age as farms are usually placed with a super general round pattern of clicks...😂👍
I forsee a revolutionary new strategy - build farms, send the builder to gather other resources and wait for the food to grow, then move vills back onto the farms a couple of minutes later.
Taking notes, the isometric perspective biases me to place my farms 'optimally' on the left side, but the data shows that you should place them 'optimally' on the right side for a more efficiency.
Problem is your not getting the most out of the area of space being used, you can fit more farms in the same area if you place them as close together as possible
T90: I've seen enough. I'm satisfied.
Please do a video analyzing the three archery ranges on a neutral island strategy.
Even getting as bad as those last two, dropping Mills on the opposite side of each fixes it perfectly well and then you just fill in with more farms
I'm surprised by the difference between the farm and farmers work rate. How much food can the farm be ahead of the farmer? - Would it make sense to build a farm and let it sit around to harvest later at the full farmer work rate?
what about collisions ... when the farms are packed together around a mill and we have two layers of farms, there seems to be quite a lot of collisions among the villagers slowing down both the villager that is collecting and the one who is trying to drop off the food to the mill... i prefer TC to layer up my farms ... and avoid mills for this reason
0:56 to skip the intro
I also feel like in early game there are less stuff to look out for, giving you more time to place your farm
In short- Vikings' eco bonus is amazing.
I used your video today as an example of good experimental design in my class XD
The most helpful tip for me was the clicking on the mill without shift. I hated that the vils would plant the farms together
This is amazingly helpful. I’m not sure if my ocd can take doubling up farms though :(
Hey, the long intro is back! Yay!
Still love watching your videos, and I still wish I could hear more of your music.
He could also have Said Players except T90 normally dont place farms that Bad
Ah I wish I could have seen where the 5 and 10% drops were for early game, as that's what I was basing my judgement on. Choosing top right as 5% and bottom left as 10
I havent played this kind of game in more than 10 years, i dont ever watch videos about it , and still somehow i watched this whole vídeo.
Would berbers be better the worse your farms are?
"This video has been sponsored by T90Official. More on that later."
i just noticed the windmill wings are backwards... or like if the wind was hitting it from behind
I mean you are the only one who ever told me that bad farm placement is bad
Feel like one thing that wasn't taken into account, although hard to measure, the impact non uniform farms have on Farmer congestion
I can't play this game due to PC issues, so I still have to place each farm INDIVIDUALLY !!!! 😒😒😒
I NEVER knew about the "Shift + Click" trick in later versions of the game! 👀
Thanks, as always, SOTL for a helpful and entertaining video. 👍😁 Placement first, upgrades later - Got it! 👑
I'd assume that Berber would have a slightly higher leniency for poor farm placement given the walk speed?
I’ve never played this game, nor i have ever seen a TH-cam video about it. I somehow enjoyed this
Very interesting video! Hand cart has a big importance for late game
I loved the music. Shows you do have a sense of humor. Otherwise I'd swear you were a robot.
i have no clue what this game is and never played it but im still interested
what about placing double layers of farms with one mill in the middle? How much % it would decrease overall collection rate? also including and excluding building time/costs.
BRO I LOVE YOUR VIDS MAN. YOU SHOULD ALSO DO PODCAST AND STUFF
07:30 missing some diagrams here? else idk what you're referring to when you say 'as you can see'