Figure skating is one of those sports that seems straightforward but whose rules make it incomprehensible. Like someone will do the most amazing and graceful feat of athleticism you've ever seen but the commentator will be like "ooh.. that's unfortunate. that's going to cost her."
It's because they have a program they have to follow. There's specific moves they're attempting each time. The commentators know what's coming at all times.
@@bruceU if you must contrive subjective rules to an athletic performance (for the explicit purpose of making it a sport) that stands by itself as anything else (theatrical performance, artistic display, etc.) and those rules can impead the spirit of the performance in such a way that the most gifted participants in this "sport" can be penalized for being too good, then it just can't be considered a sport. At that point it is nothing more than a contest.
Plus any game that relies entirely on judges to score it is entirely subjective and more of a contest than a sport. It’s more like American Idol or Miss America than a baseball game. It feels weird to even call it a game. It’s a figure skating competition, a pageant. Each contestant does their thing for the judges and they decide how good they think they were. I would never waste my time on something so subjective, it’s totally corrupt and biased because it can be.
Interestingly, Scott Hamilton is the only figure skating name I know (as someone who never followed the sport) pretty much exclusively because he did a backflip when I was a kid in the 90s despite it apparently having been an illegal maneuver.
Hamilton won his gold back in '84. By the time you saw him on tv in the 90s, his competitive career was long over and he was just doing exhibitions, tours, and other shows along with being a commentator. Obviously, he could still skate, but he was more of a famous ambassador for the sport and personality by then. Think of maybe like Tony Hawk's been like for the past several years.
Scott started doing backflips because Robin Cousins beat him at the World Professional Championships with a backflip in his routine. Back when that event was actually a thing.
12 years ago, the Olympic commentator spoke about the triple axle (maybe it was a different move) in great detail. The insane speed of the rotation, achieving the necessary height, landing on a razor, stopping the rotation, and I've respected the sport ever since.
I love the thought of Gymnasts and Figure Skaters going back and forth about which sport is better or more artistic or whatever. This some how needs to make it into a movie or tv show.
You forgot to mention that Surya was explicitly fighting racism in the Olympics and just got so frustrated with the unequal judgment that she did this backflip
Clara is actually right about Scott Hamilton - after retiring from the ISU circuit he started pro skating and the backflip was kind of his signature thing. The pro circuit has faded now but it was on TV plenty in the 80s and 90s, I have no doubt she saw him then
Anyone who watched Suyra compete knows: 1. She was always the best skater on the ice. 2. She could never win because “artistry”. In other words: “too black”.
The real question unaddressed by the video: can you backflip in pairs events? Lots of the lifts have one of the partners in the air already. All the lifter would have to do is let go at the right time to send her off upside-down.
Very interesting and I enjoyed watching both videos of skaters landing their flips. More videos like this please about obscure bits outside the "major" pro sports!
Let's just look at this for a moment, you're allowed to bring medieval weapons into your figure skating routine, but back flips is where we draw the line, we are talking about olympic athletes, they could easily learn how to do a back flip on the ice
Many figure skaters can do backflips, it's not that they're unable to learn them. They're just not that hard compared to the jumps they perform now. The difficulty of a single backflip would probably be somewhere around a double jump, it wouldn't be worth it to include it. For comparison, no competitive man today performs doubles, they need not only triples but also at least 2-3 quads, the best of the best can do up to 5.
You know what would be good for weird rules, you should do the brief period in soccer where if you mouthed off to the ref he could give you a ten-yard penalty. They stopped doing it because in soccer being closer to the goal is not necessarily beneficial, it gets harder to get the ball to dip while hitting it hard enough to beat the goalie. Early early on in soccer they also settled ties by seeing who could score a touchdown (dribbling the ball into the "end zone")
Heard her name in Sada Baby’s new song “CJ” (She do backflips over ice i made her look like Surya Bonaly) and ive never heard of her before but im so glad i did
You have to do a bit about how Celta De Vigo ascended twice to Primera División of Spain in the same season (2004-2005), due to incorrect alignment of a home-grown player, Toni Moral. The game they had won against Xerez was changed to a loss and the had to beat Eibar the next league round. I can send you some information if you want to, it would be super special to hear about my Spanish football team on SB Nation.
Possibly at the 2002 games they started having a non competitive exhibition for the skaters where they could show off their illegal move and audition for Stars On Ice.
Suggestions Rewinder: the miracle of Istanbul Collapse: how a legendary AC Milan team that were regular UCL favorites broke apart Rewinder: 2010 World Cup final Untitled: Ted Williams Untitled: Carl Yastrzemski Rewinder: Patrick Kane’s goal to win the first cup of the blackhawks dynasty Beef history: dodgers vs Yankees Beef history: Billy Martin vs George Steinbrenner Beef history: Arsenal vs Tottenham Untitled: Roberto Baggio either not winning the champions league or the World Cup Collapse: how the NY islanders legendary dynasty of the early 80s broke apart after losing a potential 5th straight cup
Bro we’ve asked for years. As an American, sadly SBNation cares more about baseball, basketball, football and hockey than it does soccer. We’re getting like 1 video a year (maybe one more for the World Cup this year).
I'll have to remember "we'll get to something adjacent to what you are not remembering" the next time my father has one of those moments, which happen routinely. :)
Do a video on the tuck rule. It sounds monumental but I’m not a close follower of nfl so I don’t care to research. Y’all do the best in that. Pls and thank you.
PLEASE SECRET BASE DO A VIDEO ON THE FATHER-SON RULE IN AUSTRALIAN RULES FOOTBALL !!! The rule came about after Ron Barassi Snr was killed in the Battle of Tobruk in 1941 just 10 months after winning a championship( or Grand final as we would call it) .The Barassi family couldn't afford to live in the Melbourne Football club recruiting zone after Ron Snr died but the club still helped the family out. The Club lobbied the league to help bring Ron Jnr to the MFC. . The rule allows kids of players to be drafted to their fathers club . Ron Barassi Jnr went on to become one of the most successful players and coaches of all time playing or coaching in 17 grand finals for 10 wins. The rule has given fans generations of joy . Some of the biggest names in the game were drafted as Father-Son picks .
For a long time, flips were not allowed in moguls skiing either, but skiiers started doing these flatspin-style "not technically a flip" tricks anyway. Eventually they just let them do the flips.
She's right. Scott Hamilton was known for his backflip. Don't know how it was legal, but he medalled (I think) and then became one of the NBC announcers.
Figure skating in the 70s sounds way better than now. Backflips get you 7th a man with Swords probably got 3rd. I need video footage of this Olympics lol
I think I'd have to put my money on the gymnastics team. Even though the figure skaters have knives, gymnasts are almost unfathomably aggressive. As the tagline for that one otherwise forgettable movie put it, "It's not called gym-nice-tics." :)
This needs a sequel about the other part of the rule, what on Earth are "lifts with wrong holds"? Also, how did Donovan McNabb finish his career Untitled?
I feel like a Terry-stop joke was made after the Terry-flip gambit, but was edited out lol maybe I’m reaching and I’m just a sarcastic pos but if not, it would’ve been a wasted opportunity for an off the record gem!
Hey I liked the video. my Grandma loved figure skating (usually olympics) but we went to see stars on ice and I'm pretty sure I saw lots of back flips. So why is winter games such lower level in stunts than the show biz version of the sport?
These kinds of rules are why the x games will always be infinitely more entertaining than the olympics. In the x games the goal of the sport is to advance the sport further and further the goal Is to add more and more difficulty as every year the bar should be raised. To me it feels like the olympics have forgotten about the purpose of showcasing athleticism being raising the bar for what any sport can be.
figure skating judges are very elitists tbh (so are the gymnastics ones, but that's for another time). you have to cowtow to them because they are spiteful bastards who hold grudges and always deduct points if they just don't like you. Like for example, the backflip ruling, according to the rulebook a backflip only counts if you can land the backflip on 1 foot, because landing with 2 feet wouldn't count (not graceful enough in their eyes i presume), but when Surya Bonaly landed a backflip on 1 foot during the winter olympics they still deducted points cause the judges didn't like her. They called her insolent and said that what she did was unacceptable even though she followed the rules. It's just as much about kissing ass as it is about being good at the sport
You’re wrong. At the time they banned somersaults the reason they gave was it wasn’t landed on one foot and it was dangerous. However the actual rule doesn’t say that - it just says it was banned. So one foot landing or not they had to deduct points.
Illegal does not mean banned. The reason people will do them is because they know they've lost to the point where they'll never get a medal... they might as well take the deduction or they're so far ahead a deduction won't hurt them. Also the ISU never stipulated one foot or two ft landing on the back flip. They don't want people going head over heels on ice and it's figure skating not gymnastics.
i remember the good old days when figure skating was on a scale of 0-6.0, and diving, gymnastics and all other sports socres was 0-10. and i remmber when figure sckaint seemed more about the art along with tecincal, now it seems like all they care about is techicnal for the most part. and ialways thought it idiotic to not have the backflip. i always assumed they deemed it "too dangerous" apparently that isn't it. i was like thinkink isn't it more dangerous trying to do a quadruple jump backwards
Figure skating is one of those sports that seems straightforward but whose rules make it incomprehensible. Like someone will do the most amazing and graceful feat of athleticism you've ever seen but the commentator will be like "ooh.. that's unfortunate. that's going to cost her."
Lol that is so true. It is really crazy the stuff they’re able to pull off
You have to have contrived rules or else you have nothing you can really judge and give numerical value to
It's because they have a program they have to follow. There's specific moves they're attempting each time. The commentators know what's coming at all times.
@@bruceU if you must contrive subjective rules to an athletic performance (for the explicit purpose of making it a sport) that stands by itself as anything else (theatrical performance, artistic display, etc.) and those rules can impead the spirit of the performance in such a way that the most gifted participants in this "sport" can be penalized for being too good, then it just can't be considered a sport. At that point it is nothing more than a contest.
Plus any game that relies entirely on judges to score it is entirely subjective and more of a contest than a sport. It’s more like American Idol or Miss America than a baseball game. It feels weird to even call it a game. It’s a figure skating competition, a pageant. Each contestant does their thing for the judges and they decide how good they think they were. I would never waste my time on something so subjective, it’s totally corrupt and biased because it can be.
Just watched the 1998 backflip. Surya nailed it and ended her routine with her back to the judges. Total BAMF move! Loved it.
What an interesting story she has. I love how she thought there was a chance by landing it on one foot it might be allowed, but no such luck.
Go watch the 2022 backflip! 🤣
"HOLD UP, this sport is getting TOO ENTERTAINING and YOUTHFUL. TAKE THE FUN OUT." -former NFL administrator who got job as consultant for olympics.
Current*
Dude I was just wondering last night why were limited to boring twirls and jump twirls. Secret Base never fails to deliver!
th-cam.com/video/Q7USStVAS_Q/w-d-xo.html
Finally its here
ㅤ
I mean it does make some sense to me, it seems like it could go very wrong more then spin do.
Interestingly, Scott Hamilton is the only figure skating name I know (as someone who never followed the sport) pretty much exclusively because he did a backflip when I was a kid in the 90s despite it apparently having been an illegal maneuver.
Tonya harding for me
I think he only did them during exhibitions or when they did like showcase on ABC
Hamilton won his gold back in '84. By the time you saw him on tv in the 90s, his competitive career was long over and he was just doing exhibitions, tours, and other shows along with being a commentator. Obviously, he could still skate, but he was more of a famous ambassador for the sport and personality by then.
Think of maybe like Tony Hawk's been like for the past several years.
He was a pro skater by then, rules are different on the pro circuit
Clara was absolutely right, Scott Hamilton was a figure skater that could do a backflip.
Will is deadass wrong
Yes. He was famous for it. He did it on TV all the time. But he didn't do it in the olympics because of this rule.
Yep! Once he wasn't an amateur he flipping flipped all over.
Scott started doing backflips because Robin Cousins beat him at the World Professional Championships with a backflip in his routine. Back when that event was actually a thing.
Yeah, he did it in gala performances, but obvi, never in competition because of the ban.
Glad she looked it up to “Clara-fy” she was right.
Scott Hamilton was an olympuc figure skater well known for his backflips. But he didn't do them in the olympics.
12 years ago, the Olympic commentator spoke about the triple axle (maybe it was a different move) in great detail. The insane speed of the rotation, achieving the necessary height, landing on a razor, stopping the rotation, and I've respected the sport ever since.
wait until you hear about the quad axle
The links to the backflips in the description are very much appreciated. 10/10
Well, 8/10
Leave it to Secret Base to make me actually care about figure skating rules and procedure😂
I love the thought of Gymnasts and Figure Skaters going back and forth about which sport is better or more artistic or whatever. This some how needs to make it into a movie or tv show.
You forgot to mention that Surya was explicitly fighting racism in the Olympics and just got so frustrated with the unequal judgment that she did this backflip
The cigarette hockey stop joke killed me 🤣
Scott Hamilton did do backflips as part of his non Olympic routine
The "exhibition" part. I think Elvis Stojko (sp) would to that too.
Clara is actually right about Scott Hamilton - after retiring from the ISU circuit he started pro skating and the backflip was kind of his signature thing. The pro circuit has faded now but it was on TV plenty in the 80s and 90s, I have no doubt she saw him then
Anyone who watched Suyra
compete knows: 1. She was always the best skater on the ice. 2. She could never win because “artistry”. In other words: “too black”.
If anyone's interested in learning more about Surya Bonaly, the podcast Radiolab did a really good episode about her, called "On the Edge".
Clara's narration is best on the voice-over stories
Clara has one of the great voices of all time.
I just feel like this needs to be said.
You're simping over a woman's voice.
Touch grass my man.
@@tombstonejones9581 ...it's called a compliment. I'm in a great relationship. Try to stop worrying so much about others.
I am married. Like Clara's voice and vibe a lot too. Super chill, reserved silliness.
@@tombstonejones9581 people are allowed to compliment women without there having to be explicit sexual interest my bother in christ
@@tombstonejones9581 Right back to you
Nathan Chen and some other dude did a backflip during the gala (fun no points) portion of the 2022 Olympics
You're allowed to go 70+ mph on essentially a skateboard at the winter olympics but no backflips in figure skating...
The real question unaddressed by the video: can you backflip in pairs events? Lots of the lifts have one of the partners in the air already. All the lifter would have to do is let go at the right time to send her off upside-down.
Every Saturday I wake up looking forward to seeing what kinda video secret base posts
Wow, you did this video at the perfect time. Probably a lot of people are watching it because of Nathan Chen.
Clara feeling saucy in this episode 😂
Really cool video idea: in the 1928-1929 NHL season goaltender George Hainsworth finished the regular season with a 22-7 record with 22 shutouts.
Thank you for the time stamped links.
I miss the tabletop face to face. Bring it back
I have no idea who has won medals over the years but I've NEVER forgotten Suriya's backflip!
3:36 I mean when you think about it, all ice skating is skating with swords
Very interesting and I enjoyed watching both videos of skaters landing their flips. More videos like this please about obscure bits outside the "major" pro sports!
Check out the Netflix series Losers, one of the episodes is about Surya Bonaly doing a backflip
Thanks will and clara!
Let's just look at this for a moment, you're allowed to bring medieval weapons into your figure skating routine, but back flips is where we draw the line, we are talking about olympic athletes, they could easily learn how to do a back flip on the ice
They found TH-cam
Many figure skaters can do backflips, it's not that they're unable to learn them. They're just not that hard compared to the jumps they perform now. The difficulty of a single backflip would probably be somewhere around a double jump, it wouldn't be worth it to include it. For comparison, no competitive man today performs doubles, they need not only triples but also at least 2-3 quads, the best of the best can do up to 5.
Clara your awesome... you tell the NBA stories so good
@@TheWatchernator "you well the NBA stories so good"...?
You know what would be good for weird rules, you should do the brief period in soccer where if you mouthed off to the ref he could give you a ten-yard penalty. They stopped doing it because in soccer being closer to the goal is not necessarily beneficial, it gets harder to get the ball to dip while hitting it hard enough to beat the goalie. Early early on in soccer they also settled ties by seeing who could score a touchdown (dribbling the ball into the "end zone")
Figure skating in the late 90s was LIT
the reasoning why the rule got added: somebody else did it with 1 foot, which would have made the rule so wrong.
There is an episode of “Losers” on Netflix featuring the story of Surya Bonaly’s backflip.
Heard her name in Sada Baby’s new song “CJ” (She do backflips over ice i made her look like Surya Bonaly) and ive never heard of her before but im so glad i did
ELVIS Stojko !
He won gold medals and owned figure skating.
AND he knocked Eric Lindros out with a kick in a bar. Lindros was a big tough NHL player.
Leave it to the purists to ruin any innovations in a human endeavor.
You have to do a bit about how Celta De Vigo ascended twice to Primera División of Spain in the same season (2004-2005), due to incorrect alignment of a home-grown player, Toni Moral. The game they had won against Xerez was changed to a loss and the had to beat Eibar the next league round. I can send you some information if you want to, it would be super special to hear about my Spanish football team on SB Nation.
Possibly at the 2002 games they started having a non competitive exhibition for the skaters where they could show off their illegal move and audition for Stars On Ice.
Ok after watching the slips, the two leg landing was sorta weird in the routine but the backflip on one foot damn
My favorite description of skis is now "slippery shoes."
Favorite part of the video was the reminder to drink water 😂 need more of that in the world
Suggestions
Rewinder: the miracle of Istanbul
Collapse: how a legendary AC Milan team that were regular UCL favorites broke apart
Rewinder: 2010 World Cup final
Untitled: Ted Williams
Untitled: Carl Yastrzemski
Rewinder: Patrick Kane’s goal to win the first cup of the blackhawks dynasty
Beef history: dodgers vs Yankees
Beef history: Billy Martin vs George Steinbrenner
Beef history: Arsenal vs Tottenham
Untitled: Roberto Baggio either not winning the champions league or the World Cup
Collapse: how the NY islanders legendary dynasty of the early 80s broke apart after losing a potential 5th straight cup
Bro we’ve asked for years. As an American, sadly SBNation cares more about baseball, basketball, football and hockey than it does soccer. We’re getting like 1 video a year (maybe one more for the World Cup this year).
Clara is rocking a Carrom board and a dart board in the background. Too cool
So what would Brian Boitano do if he were here today? I'm sure he'd kick an ass or two. That's what Brian Boitano'd do.
Did they end up banning two salchows and a triple lutz while wearing a blindfold?
I'll have to remember "we'll get to something adjacent to what you are not remembering" the next time my father has one of those moments, which happen routinely. :)
Do a video on the tuck rule. It sounds monumental but I’m not a close follower of nfl so I don’t care to research. Y’all do the best in that. Pls and thank you.
LOL i love Clara, she's the wittiest by far
PLEASE SECRET BASE DO A VIDEO ON THE FATHER-SON RULE IN AUSTRALIAN RULES FOOTBALL !!!
The rule came about after Ron Barassi Snr was killed in the Battle of Tobruk in 1941 just 10 months after winning a championship( or Grand final as we would call it) .The Barassi family couldn't afford to live in the Melbourne Football club recruiting zone after Ron Snr died but the club still helped the family out. The Club lobbied the league to help bring Ron Jnr to the MFC. . The rule allows kids of players to be drafted to their fathers club . Ron Barassi Jnr went on to become one of the most successful players and coaches of all time playing or coaching in 17 grand finals for 10 wins. The rule has given fans generations of joy . Some of the biggest names in the game were drafted as Father-Son picks .
On the bright-side, it can help prevent any disasters
For a long time, flips were not allowed in moguls skiing either, but skiiers started doing these flatspin-style "not technically a flip" tricks anyway. Eventually they just let them do the flips.
Two weeks later, and Nathan Chen throws one down during the Skating Gala at the end of Beijing 2022 👀
there is a documentary on Netflix about this and other similar events called Losers it is good
She's right. Scott Hamilton was known for his backflip. Don't know how it was legal, but he medalled (I think) and then became one of the NBC announcers.
Y'all should do a weird rules about blocking shots after a foul in Basketball
Figure skating in the 70s sounds way better than now. Backflips get you 7th a man with Swords probably got 3rd. I need video footage of this Olympics lol
I mean, yeah, when something’s gamebreaking but also a massive safety concern, I get the call.
Now I can just see a high school figure skating team and the gymnastics team accidentally meeting at a McDonald's and brawling it out.
I think I'd have to put my money on the gymnastics team. Even though the figure skaters have knives, gymnasts are almost unfathomably aggressive. As the tagline for that one otherwise forgettable movie put it, "It's not called gym-nice-tics." :)
There's a similar thing with front flips in long jump, you can get significantly more distance but it was banned in the 70s or something
wait for real?
@@TheBetterGamerz Yeah, there's another short clip on youtube by the spinoff talking to Tuariki Delamere about it
Her backflip was tuffffffff 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
This needs a sequel about the other part of the rule, what on Earth are "lifts with wrong holds"? Also, how did Donovan McNabb finish his career Untitled?
That thumbnail 🥵🔥🔥🔥
I’m 33 and definitely remember as a kid watching a USA bald male figure skater doing backflips during the Olympics definitely a Mandela effect
Sometimes you throw out the shovel, sometimes you do a figure skating video.
Scott Hamilton is the one that did the first backflip!
I now desperately want to see a downhill jump added to the biathlon.
That thumbnail thoo
Whenever a video has Will and Clara, you know it's gonna be good
I think figure skating needs more "lifts with wrong holds"!
Figure skating judges are pure evil. Change my mind.
I feel like a Terry-stop joke was made after the Terry-flip gambit, but was edited out lol maybe I’m reaching and I’m just a sarcastic pos but if not, it would’ve been a wasted opportunity for an off the record gem!
I remember the one from the 98 Olympics
Hey I liked the video. my Grandma loved figure skating (usually olympics) but we went to see stars on ice and I'm pretty sure I saw lots of back flips. So why is winter games such lower level in stunts than the show biz version of the sport?
Well to be fair the jumps skaters have to do are much harder than back flips.
"and then she lit a cigarette and....". Great rapour and great story. Thanks as ever for everything at secretbase
I remember that backflip in 98
Should do a Hendrick Lundquist Untitled episode
Can you talk about pat Ryan and the free guard zone in curling
Never new flips were illegal. On a side note, not going to lie but Clara is absolutely cute!
Clara is the homie
These kinds of rules are why the x games will always be infinitely more entertaining than the olympics. In the x games the goal of the sport is to advance the sport further and further the goal Is to add more and more difficulty as every year the bar should be raised.
To me it feels like the olympics have forgotten about the purpose of showcasing athleticism being raising the bar for what any sport can be.
What's all that twisting they do in the air. If it's illegal
figure skating judges are very elitists tbh (so are the gymnastics ones, but that's for another time). you have to cowtow to them because they are spiteful bastards who hold grudges and always deduct points if they just don't like you.
Like for example, the backflip ruling, according to the rulebook a backflip only counts if you can land the backflip on 1 foot, because landing with 2 feet wouldn't count (not graceful enough in their eyes i presume), but when Surya Bonaly landed a backflip on 1 foot during the winter olympics they still deducted points cause the judges didn't like her. They called her insolent and said that what she did was unacceptable even though she followed the rules.
It's just as much about kissing ass as it is about being good at the sport
You’re wrong.
At the time they banned somersaults the reason they gave was it wasn’t landed on one foot and it was dangerous. However the actual rule doesn’t say that - it just says it was banned. So one foot landing or not they had to deduct points.
Same competition Tania hardings incident happens
"One guy skated with swords"
Did you just make that up, or can we get a video about that?
Suraya Bonaly rules
Alien voice gal is starting to grow on me
Illegal does not mean banned. The reason people will do them is because they know they've lost to the point where they'll never get a medal... they might as well take the deduction or they're so far ahead a deduction won't hurt them. Also the ISU never stipulated one foot or two ft landing on the back flip. They don't want people going head over heels on ice and it's figure skating not gymnastics.
The rule makers of figure skating must also like snooker
I believe 3 teenage skater became quads emulating this and the FIS banned it to protect itself from future lawsuits
TH-cam took the videos you linked down.
This girl is hilarious 😂😂
i remember the good old days when figure skating was on a scale of 0-6.0, and diving, gymnastics and all other sports socres was 0-10. and i remmber when figure sckaint seemed more about the art along with tecincal, now it seems like all they care about is techicnal for the most part. and ialways thought it idiotic to not have the backflip. i always assumed they deemed it "too dangerous" apparently that isn't it. i was like thinkink isn't it more dangerous trying to do a quadruple jump backwards
I guess figure skating and US folkstyle wrestling has something in common.
This is why I live
The Russian girl who won free dance by 30 points tonight should add backflips to her routines!