Unfortunately, it can take a lifetime to find the perfect layout to build. It sounds to me like you are on the right track. I also admire your self reflection and honest analysis. You demonstrate two positive signs that often lead to success and the sorting out of "givens and druthers" that many fail to ever realize. Keep at it and take your time with the plan. Cheers ~ Boomer. 👍😁
Thanks for the comment. I know myself well enough to realize that I enjoy 'doing' more than 'planning,' so sometimes I can rush things. I've often said that I prefer the journey over the destination, so I'm not upset about starting over-I just wish things hadn’t gone off the rails like they did this time.
"I'm glad I did that but never again" has been the name of the game with so many projects on my current layout. I especially share your pain with track-related issues. There's a reason so many people shell out the extra cash for Kato Unitrack...
The start of resolving issues is recognising them. It takes a courageous man to wholeheartedly admit his mistakes, my respect sir. Good luck with your next endeavour.
@NScaleDystopia. You should be proud that you followed through enough to see how things worked, made a decision, and looked to what's next. It's really easy to never follow-though or get stuck in the "sunk-cost fallacy" and not change. Many people simply stop and let the layout gather dust. This is the first video of yours that I've seen, and it's a winner. I'll look forward to seeing what's next.
Sooner or later we all do some of these things - and hopefully learn from them. My previous layout was a solid spaghetti bowl of track - trying to fit way too much in a very small space - and consequently nothing worked properly. Good luck with the new plans, and take your time to get it right.
My mistake was using woodlands scenics foam roadbed and Atlas snap-switches. I'm rebuilding the layout with Kato Unitrack and doing the same with my switching layout. I should have avoided Atlas snap-switches in the first place...but I was told that Atlas was the most readily available. Learned lots of valuable things as well
I believe it is normal with this hobby ! We defiantly overcomplicate things in the beginning, it seems. Then we discover how hard track cleaning can become with all the tunnels, layers and deck levels !! So we learn from are mistakes. I know, I have been in your position and have had 4 layout rebuilds in the last 2 years. I blame it on all the guys with the basement layouts !! Some of us do not have the room they have and over build. I too have no helix's and no grades. So now my trains can run for hours on end with NO issues. I love to chill to the sound of the trains clacking on the rails while I do other work at the workbench. I can not wait to see the new beginnings. Your work is amazing !!
I've been there and done that. In HO, though. I've been slowly replacing the boards on my tortoise machines because back in the day, I used acid flux to solder wires to them. I'd neutralize the residue with some IPA. However, it slowly ate at the joints, and the solder tabs eventually peeled loose. The only time I've used acid flux is when hand laying my turnouts. But because I washed the bejeesus out of them with soap and water, they're rock solid many years later. Which leads me to replacing a bunch of #5's with #8's just because they look better when running equipment. All that being said, use rosin flux for electronics, not plumbers. Use the biggest turnout you can fit in your space, and it's definitely okay to start over. Good luck with your re-build.
I can't believe how calm you are here. If I had made this video, there'd be a fire growing behind me the whole time while I found the bottom of a whiskey bottle.
Congratulations on the courage to start over! It has been fascinating to watch the current layout take shape, so I look forward to watching the new build. I suggest you consider foam as a construction material. Extruded foam board is much more stable than wood. Woodland Scenics foam inclines won't allow you to cheat on grades. If you do use servos, purchase the ones with metal gears (higher quality and more reliable).
I totally understand how frustrated and disappointed you are with certain aspects of the layout. But as you say, we learn from our mistakes. I think this journey is going to be amazing!! It’s sad but at the same time very exciting and I’m really looking forward to seeing the build progress! The old adage, it’s not the destination it’s the journey….. or something or other!!! Excited doesn’t describe it!!!!❤
It takes a lot of courage to make that decision, many would just carry on, forever trying to make things work and never being satisfied. You will enjoy the new build - exciting times ahead!
Have just started in the hobby - Bought Peco Code 80 N and within a few days realised with no experience with soldering or wiring it went straight back into the box. 2 days later had Kato Unitrack running with a loco and could not be happier. Respect your honesty with your track layout and build - it will help alot of other people from the experience. Wishing you the best for stage 2 for your project. New sub today from AUS.
Great video. Sometimes we just want to include everything on our layout and then we find out that is really not what we want. Thanks for sharing the issues you discovered and how you want to do things different the next time. Look forward to following along.
Loved your old layout, but I've never been a huge fan of this one. The main reason is that it seemed too complicated for the available space. So... I feel your pain about starting over, but I'm really looking forward to seeing what you do next. 🙂
As someone who is building first layout currently, set in the Scotland during the late 50's/early 60's, watching your growth as a modeler has been very inspiring and reassuring that when things go wrong to never give, but to withdraw and replan. I cannot wait to see where this new layout takes us, all the best man!
I was sad to see the Carbondale-based layout go. I'm sad to see this one go. But I definitely understand the reasons you gotta start over. And it seems like these reasons are completely different than taking apart the Carbondale layout. So at least you're always learning from your mistakes. Good luck and Godspeed with your next layout. I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together.
I enjoyed listening to your ideas about starting to rebuild your railroad. As you start with the end in mind we will be able to follow along watching and learning with you.
I feel for you, it is not an easy decision but as you have proven it will only be better as you move forward, some great info provided in this video, I for one will continue to be here and enjoy what you present to us. Cheers
ugh. that is a lot of problems. That is part of the reason why I use Kato Unitrack so much. Doesn't look as good, but pretty reliable. Peco track is also pretty bulletproof, so can't really go wrong there. You might still take a look at the Peco Code 55 as it is still Code 80 rail, so way more durable than the Atlas code 55 which pops out of the tie spikes if you sneeze too hard.
Sad to hear about this!! I've been with you through thick and thin and ill stay till the end. I love the dystrophy and everytime your notification comes up I'm like please have some zombies in it but I do love seeing it all come together
Great video. Thanks for describing your thought process. I don't learn anything if I do it correctly the first time. I now keep my layouts very simple and some may say boring.
Thanks for the update. I may have accidentally used acid flux on my layout as well. I was careful not to solder every rail joint together. I used Atlas code 80 snap track and Atlas #4 and a few #6 remote control snap switches. So far, so good with my steamers , but I'm not impressed with the Atlas snap switches.
KATO Unitrack is my easy cheat for modularity. But my trains and Buildings are really just backdrops for Action figure photography. So easy removal is a given in my situation.
Thanks for sharing. We all learn from sharing the good and the bad. I run the older Bachman Turbo trains in N scale, after I built my track. I had to also replace my curves to run. Now I'm thinking time to tear down and reconfiguring my layout. I look forward to seeing your new progress. Cheers
Totally understand. Im on layout #6, specifically because after 2-3 years of each old layout - the issues faced due to inexperience make the layout"not fun" anymore. Best part is on each next layout, you know more when you start and work faster
Great video, I'm also starting over for some of the reasons you mentioned, 1 being able to remove a section and workbench it, then putting it back on the wall. 2 going to peco switches.I'm also going going from a U shape to an L shape. Although my layout is a bit more reliable as it's a working switching layout, I'll be selling it to fund the next one
I can’t wait for the new layout. I think having Union as a terminus station is a good idea (specifically because I never go past Union. I only know the west side stations)
Great video! Rest assured you are not the first modeler to rip up a layout in the middle of construction. I was In the middle of my 4th layout (the previous 3 were completed and great to operate) and never got past laying track and wiring before I realized I didn't really like the track plan or how it would operate. So, out came the tools of destruction and I'm back to plywood getting ready to do the backdrop and fascia then on to the track plan and wiring. Regarding Solder: 60/40 Rosin Core solder, no flux or use acid-free flux. The rosin core is the flux and cleans as it melts. It also has a relatively low melting point and doesn't take long to melt once touched to heated wire or rail (also works extremely well on nickel surfaces, namely model railroad track). Also, no soldering of stranded wire. Only solder solid wire, use crimp connectors on stranded wire for terminal connections. Model railroading tips: For N Scale: Peco code 80 flex track and at least their medium (#6) turnouts. Always reliable! For All Scales (N & HO mainly): Wire every section of track and DO NOT SOLDER RAIL JOINERS (only exception: when a curve uses 2 pieces of track then solder the joint.) You could solder turnouts of a yard ladder, but at some point you need to allow an expansion joint (just like engineers do in the real world). Less is more! K.I.S.S (Keep It Simple Stupid) (not calling anyone or anything that, it's just what it means) -Just my opinion but it is that of a 30+ year electrician and model railroader.
As soon as I saw you hold up the flux, I felt sick... Hate to see this. This is why soldering techniques were always harped on in RMC and MR even back in the 70s. The best part of this admission on video is that hopefully it educates others just like the magazines did for me and many others in the past. Nice work, by the way (N has come a long way). I wish you luck with the rebuild, for it's frustrating, I realize, but certainly a great opportunity to learn from mistakes.
Definitely made some of those same mistakes myself in the past. My sympathies. Realizing what went wrong and what you're unhappy about with one's layout is key to making the next one even better. Tearing down the old layout hurts, but looking forward to the next one and the opportunities it will present have always been a great joy for me. I'm now on layout number 7 (we've moved a lot), and every one of them has taught me something. Good luck on your future model railroading endeavors.
That's terrible news! You had me running to check my paste. The effort invented is heart breaking. I'm close by if you need assistance! Best of luck and looking forward to the new layout.
Can't wait to see the next version! As for something to add to the discussion, I think adding a drawer underneath with whatever straight track you can save from the old layout would make a great way to store pre made consists and easily transfer them to the track.
I really resonate with your situation; both where I've been and where I'm considering going. I'm just at the design phase of a new layout, and much of your story is mirrored in what I'm considering. My last layout, started 10 years ago, was taken apart for a move into a new location, and I'm actually glad. While mostly unfinished, it was a bit too large and not quite planned as well as it should have. It also used code 55, because 'the serious N scale guys' all did, and it seemed expected to follow suit. The thing is, I was modeling winter, with the tracks mostly buried in snow, and I realized that using code 80 would probably have been a better choice as the more-prototypical ties and rail height were completely obscured. I also used scratchbuilt turnouts, although not by choice - I thought people who did that were slightly mad, eccentric wizards who probably mumbled a lot and preferred obscure cheeses from countries I'd never heard of. The reason, as I understand it, was that Atlas was having severe issues with a factory in China and the turnout supply had evaporated - and I was just at the point where I needed turnouts. Ugh. Anyway, I set out to learn the dark art of scratchbuilding code 55 turnouts. Turned out it's not really difficult and involves not much sorcery at all, and they were actually quite reliable - more than the Atlas code 55 switches I'd used! My mumbling has increased, however, and the obscure cheeses at the supermarket have started looking oddly appealing. I'm sure it's a coincidence. Anyway, your willingness to embrace code 80 (and you are a Serious N Scale Guy) has given me the reassuring nudge to take a look at code 80 again. Poor reliability stops being fun in a serious hurry. Thank you for the fresh approach to showing what you're doing - I'm taking notes!
I've come to the realization that the process is, maybe, more enjoyable that the result. I'm enjoying building my layout so much, I may never actually finish it! Sure, I plan to run trains. But I expect to be running trains AND adding new structures, greenery and maybe even route changes at the same time. I look forward to watching your "Starting Over" videos!
Fascinating video, hello from Australia, in 2010 in Perth i met Richard Johnson of DCC concepts who were based here then. I had been discussing a return to the hobby after a 40 year absence. I had begun adding droppers to an N gauge layout that would become 180 metres of code 55 and 60+ electro frog turnouts and mentioned to him i was using "Bakers soldering fluid" to which he quickly advised be what would happen and suggested his flux, luckily i listened. I have a large layout with a helix anda lower storage and get very few derailments using the Peco large rad points in code 55. My gripe is keeping the track clean. Really enjoyed your video good luck with the new build.
as someone that has built 6 layouts at home and working on the 3rd at the club starting over is just part of the hobby. Every time you start over you take what you have learned and apply it to the new layout. This is why the last thing i do on a layout is ballast my track. if it isn't ballasted then i can easily reuse it and save a ton of money. I have used Code 55 on my latest layout at home and i do like it. it does take more more to get to run well but if you really take your time when laying it it will work well. but it is no where near as easy to use as code 80.
I'm sorry you are having to restart due to issues but, it does comfort me knowing that my small, dining table layout with two loops and a small yard will suit me just fine. I just want to see the trains run. I'll be using Kato track and (mostly) Kato engines. I have a plan and have bought almost everything I need for my plan. Good luck. I'll be watching.
I have used resin cored solder for over 40 years and have never had an issue with a wire to wire or wire to rail joint. Have never used flux. I just prep the surface as required so it “accepts” solder. Don’t solder rail together (unless it is a short piece a couple of inches long) and ALWAYS put a dropper from EVERY rail to the track bus. Have you considered the Blueline switch machines as they are manual control and give you a DPDT switch for the frog and panel LEDs. Peco track is king. In New Zealand it is difficult to get other brands, but those that have used those keep coming back to Peco. All of their track products are easy to use and very reliable over the decades. I always use live frog switches and switch the frog via the switch machine. Good luck with the rebuild. Cheers Brendon
Thanks for your honest remarks. I live near Niagara Falls on Lake Erie in the peninsular. I model in On3 scale but can agree with benchwork expansion. I should have used metal studs for the benchwork as I have problems with expansion. I have recently installed a splitter system in my home plus added a de-humidifier. I also hand - laid my turnouts and have the exact same problems with the poit rails detaching from the throw bar. I do not have any track power as my locos are all Power On Board. however, I have discovered that my points do detach from the throw bar as the tortoise switch motors are pretty powerful. Good luck with your new endeavours.
I was taught in electronics class in High School back in 1965-1969 to never use acid flux with copper it was meant for use with sheet metal work, only use resin style fluxes for use with copper and brasses. The difference is solders for plumbing should never be used for electronics, I typically use rosin core solders that are lead/tin rather then the new non leaded solders. Melting point temp is lower so less damage to parts.
Dude I totally relate. I'm about to tear my down and start over. I've been stuck on laying the track cause I winged it and didn't have a plan. I just been working on scenery and models. Salvage what I can and move on I suppose. Good luck!
I had the same issue with my backdrops. To solve this I ovalized the wholes where the screws go though and this allowed the masonite board to expand and contract.
A well-done analysis of a very discouraging situation. That said, from what I saw of your first iteration, the second I believe will be a stunner! I saw several things, such as broad curve radii, a cohesive theme, and the beginnings of scenery, on the current layout that were indicators of a strong skill set that's only going to get stronget.
@9:19 - I hear you there! I recently had a very similar issue on my OO9 narrow gauge layout...and of course the track had to pop right inside the tunnel no less 😅
It becomes a bit too dystopian when the layout itself has become deteriorated dystopian infrastructure. Many will learn and benefit from your sharing of your experiences. I thank you for sharing them with all of us.
N scale can be especially unforgiving of track issues. Sounds like you've had a tremendous--if inadvertent--learning experience and the rebuilt layout will be all the better for it.
Sorry your layout was wracked with so many irreparable flaws, Denny. I know you'll be able to rebuild your layout even better moving forward! I'm confident you'll make a layout that's absolutely bullet-proof!
On the subject of over complicating things on the layout, especially the turnouts. My layout is my first proper layout getting back into the hobby. It was hard to not get overly ambitious and have signals, turnout motors, and switch boards on the layout. Like you mentioned about keeping the enjoyment of running trains, I opted for the manual approach. I use ground throughs and it's made my life a lot easier. I look forward to see what your next layout will look like and the processes and decisions you choose!
This video should be required for anyone starting their first layout! I have experienced many of the same problems and am now really simplifying things to better enjoy running trains. I also have shifted my focus to high quality structures and less on a complicated track plan.
This video has convinced me to rethink my plans for my still-to-be-built modular layout. I was going to use Atlas Code 55 track; but now I am going to look into Code 80. Sadly, I have already spend a small fortune on track and turn-outs. I can, at least, take solace that I don't have to rip apart a lot of hard work to start over. And, just maybe, I can sell my track and turn-outs to recover some of the money I have spent.
I've been thinking about making my first layout, and this video seems to hold a lot of great lessons and factors that I've been worried about as I plan. I initially wanted to go hand-laid and have an elevated dogbone with sharp turnouts, and this video is corresponding very well with advice I've been recieving elsewhere about simplifying things down as much as possible while still making a scene I can enjoy watching and operating.
That’s too bad. Live and learn. 1. Don’t use acid based solder paste. 2. Use the “fine sewing machine” style flux used in surface mount electronics. 3. Use lead based solder. The new lead free stuff is crap. 4. Never solder straight track joints, put feeders to each rail. 5. Make joints tight when laying track in summer, leave a bit of space when laying track in winter, even with climate control.Can’t wait to see the new project
Oh man... so sorry to hear this happened to you. You are handling the situation very well. Everyone loves giving advice, or pointing out the obvious and so normally i don't like to add my commentary to the pile, but I have an idea I've used on my own HO layout that works quite well for me. I had a bunch of Kato HO unitrack left over from when I got back into the hobby, so I used it on all my hidden staging. It's not pretty, but it is dependable and forgiving of changes in roadbed. It's something you might want to try before you build to see if it can work for you. There should be lots of N scale unitrack available second hand as it is far more common in N scale. Just a thought to try and help out in a bad situation. Hope it all works out well for you in future.
The advice has been great - this is hobby for sharing - I can take it. You raise a good point - bullet proof (read: idiot proof) track for the staging. *Noted.
Every cloud has a silver lining... You are correct -- if you do not "nip this in the bud" now, you will grow ever more frustrated with the current layout to the point you might give up. So by starting over now, and incorporating the lessons learned, you are more likely going to continue enjoying this hobby for a long time to come. After hearing what you said about Code 55 track, I am now reconsidering the choices I made. Many, many years ago, when I started out in this hobby, I was given advice that Atlas Code 55 flextrack was the way to go -- more prototypical in look (as you said) than Code 80. So, I invested heavily in Atlas Code 55 flextrack and turn-outs. (I am afraid to even attempt to calculate the money spent. 💸💸💸) I am far from an experienced modeler, so I want a reliable layout where I am not spending every second minute re-railing cars, or futzing with finnicky turn-outs. Fortunately, unlike you, my layout is still only on paper. However, I am very near the point of starting to build. I am going with a modular layout adhering to N-Track (formerly N-Rail) standards -- with the exception of track size (as I said, I was planning to use Atlas Code 55; but N-Track standard is Atlas or Peco Code 80). I was always just going to "just deal with it" should I take my modules to shows and link them to those belonging to other people. But after hearing all your troubles, I am now having second thoughts. It is one thing tolerating the chatter of "pizza cutter" wheels on Code 55 track; but to have frequent derailments ... that will grow old fast. I will be attending the model train show being held this coming weekend (17-18 Aug) at ExpoRail railroad museum near Montreal. Perhaps I can find some good deals on Atlas or Peco Code 80 flextrack and turnouts. 🤞 Now, what to do with literally "mint-in-box" Atlas Code 55 #7 straight turn-outs; #2.5 Wyes; 21/15" curved turn-outs; and lengths of flextrack (with brown ties). I would like to recoup at least some of the money spent on all that. 💰💰💰 You can take comfort that, by posting your experiences and sharing the lessons you've learned, you are helping at least one fellow modeler potentially avoid your frustrations and mistakes. Thank you.
I too bought Atlas track and switches based on testimonials I read in Model Railroader Magazine. The last layout had atlas turnouts and I was unhappy with them. The track is *fine*, but its not forgiving enough for me. I suppose metal wheels etc. could make a difference, but as I'm starting fresh - I'll pursue reliability. Thanks for the comment!
I built my layout using Atlas code 55 and did not notice huge issues with it. It was a modular layout so I used small Atlas True-Track pieces over the benchwork joints. They really only came in handy when I disassembled the layout, but it was a reasonably successful experiment. The one thing I did was rather than solder adjoining pieces of track together at the joiners I left small gaps at the joiner between where the two rails met for expansion/contraction and instead soldered a feeder wire to *every* piece of track for reliable power. Just run a higher gauge bus under the layout parallel to the track to connect feeders to. The mainline had #10 turnouts with #7s elsewhere and some #5s at small industries so my mainline trains didn't have issues. I used Tortoise motors at the turnouts to be able to throw them electronically and found them reliable, but they would be pricey on a larger layout.
As a resident of west Hamilton I couldn’t stop watching the tv in the background. I spent a lot of time on the pedestrian bridge at crooks hollow watching the trains go by. It’s always hard to admit one’s mistakes but the improvements you have addressed will definitely be beneficial.
Good grief, N Scalers nightmare right here. Pretty unbelievable your soldering flux is the root of so many problems. Personally, I use the fine solder from Fast Tracks and some pretty generic electronic soldering flux with good results. Best of luck on your journey! Looking forward to following along 🙂
I’m sorry you will have to start over again. But I’m not sorry that I will hopefully get the the whole process from start to finish of the new layout. I’m sure it will be an incredible layout!
This was a great video. Sorry to hear you will take the layout down, but it is understandable. On the operation of switch, check the gauge of your wheel sets on locos and cars. If the gauge is off, they will bump or derail on turnouts. Check the turnouts too to make sure they are in gauge, even though you built them in a jig. For servos, those blue plastic ones are very cheap. For a little more money, you can get better ones with metal gears that are higher quality and won’t buzz. And yes, keep things as simple as possible.
All important lessons you have learned, life is trial and error. It is also important to make sure your clean the flux off, even the rosen core flux. A old tooth brush and a cup of water or a spray bottle and then dry, or ISP or mineral spirits. Yes acid core is not good for trains. Also when building the new layout, Built it with height and reach issues in mind and make it so it can be moved if it becomes necessary. Your young now, but give some thought to how will you work and maintain your layout when your older or if you (god forbid) hurt a leg or knee. TYVM for sharing your experience and lessons learned, as well as sharing what you did that did work. One last thought and perhaps you know this, when gluing down cork or track, don't use a glue that will dissolve when it comes time for ballasting. I found tilebond wood glue worked well for gluing track to cork as it became waterproof, but I could still use a putty knife to get the track up (with out damage) later if didn't like it. Also I found pre soldering 2 pieces of flex track together with feeder at the joint, then use rail jointers to connect the next 2 pieces. store.mrhmag.com/store/p131/ebook/run-like-a-dream-trackwork.html --- Good book with valuable info, I bought the whole series and it was a great investment. Good luck and have fun , I m looking forward to your next project.
I can feel age starting to take hold - I am considering how I want to pamper my eyes, knees and back. The suggestion about the glue and the intermittent rail joiners / soldered rails are good suggestions - thank you.
Amazing video quality, such an eloquent speaker. Sounds like it gave you the excuse to fix all the other issues were far more annoying than the flux. An unreliable layout is not a fun layout to operate. Manual turnout controls for the win! I think a stub station would be fun. Capture the flavour of Toronto.
I also make my own turnouts, N scale code 55. Of course I have a supply of rosin flux for all electronics, and I was wondering should I use that for a mechanical joint such as the copper PC board to the nickel silver rail. I decided on petroleum based acid flux. SRA #130. Acid flux is great when bonding non copper materials such as nickel alloys or nickel silver which are the rails composition. Jewelers use it all the time. For mechanical joints I would think this is the best method. However, it does need to be cleaned. I use a brass wire brush first, then I take it to the sink and with a toothbrush and hot water scrub the turnout thoroughly . When dry, I will then get some baking soda and just brush the baking soda on again as a thick paste with water. Then rinse it off. It really doesn't take much effort. Petroleum based acid flux resists the solder joint from corroding. Now for connecting feeders etc I use rosin flux. First, it really isn't a mechanical joint. Second it is impossible to clean. And for stranded wire, acid flux will get under the insulation and corrode the wire underneath. So, for mechanical joints, especially non copper like rail, acid flux is preferred only when it can be thoroughly cleaned. Rosin flux for everything else.
A lot of solder used for soldering electronics has a kind of flux in its "core". So extra flux is not needed. I assume it's the correct kind of flux. I'm a big fan of pre-soldering and I think with the right stuff it's not an issue.
That sucks brah, but at least your frustration is leading you to avoid the mistakes you made the first time around rather than walk away entirely. Hopefully this next time around won't take you too long to build.
Very unfortunate but live and learn. I tore down and restarted my layout in 2020 for many of the same reasons. Just was not happy with its performance and it was actually easier to start fresh.
Look at Peco code 55 flex track. It is really code 80 rail buried in the plastic ties. You can also easily connect it to code 80 Atlas or Peco track and use with Peco code 55 and code 80 turnouts.
My train club. Reached the more mow than the amount of work it would take to build new so, we removed the original layout, down to the concrete floor, and rebuilt it all then COVID hit. Our club collapsed. Keep up the enjoyment.
I pulled my much smaller layout apart entirely. Haven't rebuilt yet, but I am feeling better about everything as I can approach the rebuild with a much clearer vision and with a lot more experience than I had with the first layout.
The thing about code 55 is you HAVE to verify all wheels are in gauge with a NMRA gauge. I never has an issue with Atlas code 55 once I verified wheel gauge was 100%. If you are not doing this already, your letting yourself fail on good operating trains. It doesn't matter the scale, it's a must.
Unfortunately, it can take a lifetime to find the perfect layout to build. It sounds to me like you are on the right track. I also admire your self reflection and honest analysis. You demonstrate two positive signs that often lead to success and the sorting out of "givens and druthers" that many fail to ever realize. Keep at it and take your time with the plan. Cheers ~ Boomer. 👍😁
Thanks for the comment. I know myself well enough to realize that I enjoy 'doing' more than 'planning,' so sometimes I can rush things. I've often said that I prefer the journey over the destination, so I'm not upset about starting over-I just wish things hadn’t gone off the rails like they did this time.
"I'm glad I did that but never again" has been the name of the game with so many projects on my current layout. I especially share your pain with track-related issues. There's a reason so many people shell out the extra cash for Kato Unitrack...
A smart man learns from his mistakes, a smarter man learns from other people's mistakes. Thanks for sharing.
You got that right!
The start of resolving issues is recognising them. It takes a courageous man to wholeheartedly admit his mistakes, my respect sir. Good luck with your next endeavour.
Thanks for the honest reflection. Less track, bigger turnouts, simple controls--that's the voice of experience.
Experience is a kind way to say it!
@NScaleDystopia. You should be proud that you followed through enough to see how things worked, made a decision, and looked to what's next. It's really easy to never follow-though or get stuck in the "sunk-cost fallacy" and not change. Many people simply stop and let the layout gather dust. This is the first video of yours that I've seen, and it's a winner. I'll look forward to seeing what's next.
Sooner or later we all do some of these things - and hopefully learn from them. My previous layout was a solid spaghetti bowl of track - trying to fit way too much in a very small space - and consequently nothing worked properly. Good luck with the new plans, and take your time to get it right.
My mistake was using woodlands scenics foam roadbed and Atlas snap-switches. I'm rebuilding the layout with Kato Unitrack and doing the same with my switching layout. I should have avoided Atlas snap-switches in the first place...but I was told that Atlas was the most readily available. Learned lots of valuable things as well
I believe it is normal with this hobby ! We defiantly overcomplicate things in the beginning, it seems. Then we discover how hard track cleaning can become with all the tunnels, layers and deck levels !! So we learn from are mistakes. I know, I have been in your position and have had 4 layout rebuilds in the last 2 years. I blame it on all the guys with the basement layouts !! Some of us do not have the room they have and over build. I too have no helix's and no grades. So now my trains can run for hours on end with NO issues. I love to chill to the sound of the trains clacking on the rails while I do other work at the workbench. I can not wait to see the new beginnings. Your work is amazing !!
You gotta know when to walk away. It's a tough pill to swallow but you'll be glad you did it.
Thank you sharing your experience. Good or bad, the honesty will only help our community. I look forward to your progress.
I've been there and done that. In HO, though. I've been slowly replacing the boards on my tortoise machines because back in the day, I used acid flux to solder wires to them. I'd neutralize the residue with some IPA. However, it slowly ate at the joints, and the solder tabs eventually peeled loose. The only time I've used acid flux is when hand laying my turnouts. But because I washed the bejeesus out of them with soap and water, they're rock solid many years later. Which leads me to replacing a bunch of #5's with #8's just because they look better when running equipment. All that being said, use rosin flux for electronics, not plumbers. Use the biggest turnout you can fit in your space, and it's definitely okay to start over. Good luck with your re-build.
I can't believe how calm you are here. If I had made this video, there'd be a fire growing behind me the whole time while I found the bottom of a whiskey bottle.
It is very cathartic tearing things off the layout when you've made the difficult decision to make the change ;)
We dont talk about the bodies...
Thank you I like how you talk about what you have been through , I will be checking out your progress.
Congratulations on the courage to start over! It has been fascinating to watch the current layout take shape, so I look forward to watching the new build. I suggest you consider foam as a construction material. Extruded foam board is much more stable than wood. Woodland Scenics foam inclines won't allow you to cheat on grades. If you do use servos, purchase the ones with metal gears (higher quality and more reliable).
I totally understand how frustrated and disappointed you are with certain aspects of the layout. But as you say, we learn from our mistakes. I think this journey is going to be amazing!! It’s sad but at the same time very exciting and I’m really looking forward to seeing the build progress!
The old adage, it’s not the destination it’s the journey….. or something or other!!!
Excited doesn’t describe it!!!!❤
It takes a lot of courage to make that decision, many would just carry on, forever trying to make things work and never being satisfied. You will enjoy the new build - exciting times ahead!
Have just started in the hobby - Bought Peco Code 80 N and within a few days realised with no experience with soldering or wiring it went straight back into the box. 2 days later had Kato Unitrack running with a loco and could not be happier. Respect your honesty with your track layout and build - it will help alot of other people from the experience. Wishing you the best for stage 2 for your project. New sub today from AUS.
If it is easy to find where you are, Bachmann EZ track is cheap/worthless to many, but good for soldering practice.
We live and learn. Your next version will be so much better with all that you have learned. Appreciate you sharing to help others.
Great video. Sometimes we just want to include everything on our layout and then we find out that is really not what we want. Thanks for sharing the issues you discovered and how you want to do things different the next time. Look forward to following along.
Loved your old layout, but I've never been a huge fan of this one. The main reason is that it seemed too complicated for the available space. So... I feel your pain about starting over, but I'm really looking forward to seeing what you do next. 🙂
As someone who is building first layout currently, set in the Scotland during the late 50's/early 60's, watching your growth as a modeler has been very inspiring and reassuring that when things go wrong to never give, but to withdraw and replan. I cannot wait to see where this new layout takes us, all the best man!
I was sad to see the Carbondale-based layout go. I'm sad to see this one go. But I definitely understand the reasons you gotta start over. And it seems like these reasons are completely different than taking apart the Carbondale layout. So at least you're always learning from your mistakes. Good luck and Godspeed with your next layout.
I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together.
You and me both!
You have provided some great insight and lessons learned. Thanks and good luck and enjoyment on your rebuild.
I enjoyed listening to your ideas about starting to rebuild your railroad. As you start with the end in mind we will be able to follow along watching and learning with you.
Thank you very much Mike. All the best.
Found this enjoyable but you have identified issues and made a rational and logical choices. Good luck on the rebuild
I feel for you, it is not an easy decision but as you have proven it will only be better as you move forward, some great info provided in this video, I for one will continue to be here and enjoy what you present to us. Cheers
ugh. that is a lot of problems. That is part of the reason why I use Kato Unitrack so much. Doesn't look as good, but pretty reliable. Peco track is also pretty bulletproof, so can't really go wrong there. You might still take a look at the Peco Code 55 as it is still Code 80 rail, so way more durable than the Atlas code 55 which pops out of the tie spikes if you sneeze too hard.
I have sneezed MANY times... Thanks!
If you're not making mistakes, you're not growing! This is exciting news, I'm looking forward to all the new trials and adventures!
Man, I sure an growing!
Sad to hear about this!! I've been with you through thick and thin and ill stay till the end. I love the dystrophy and everytime your notification comes up I'm like please have some zombies in it but I do love seeing it all come together
Great video. Thanks for describing your thought process. I don't learn anything if I do it correctly the first time. I now keep my layouts very simple and some may say boring.
Thanks for the update. I may have accidentally used acid flux on my layout as well. I was careful not to solder every rail joint together.
I used Atlas code 80 snap track and Atlas #4 and a few #6 remote control snap switches. So far, so good with my steamers , but I'm not impressed with the Atlas snap switches.
KATO Unitrack is my easy cheat for modularity. But my trains and Buildings are really just backdrops for Action figure photography. So easy removal is a given in my situation.
Thanks for sharing. We all learn from sharing the good and the bad. I run the older Bachman Turbo trains in N scale, after I built my track. I had to also replace my curves to run. Now I'm thinking time to tear down and reconfiguring my layout. I look forward to seeing your new progress.
Cheers
Totally understand. Im on layout #6, specifically because after 2-3 years of each old layout - the issues faced due to inexperience make the layout"not fun" anymore. Best part is on each next layout, you know more when you start and work faster
I learned a lot from this, thank you!
Heartbreaking amount of things to fix, boss. Still appreciate being able to learn from you though, thank you.
Great video, I'm also starting over for some of the reasons you mentioned, 1 being able to remove a section and workbench it, then putting it back on the wall. 2 going to peco switches.I'm also going going from a U shape to an L shape. Although my layout is a bit more reliable as it's a working switching layout, I'll be selling it to fund the next one
I can’t wait for the new layout. I think having Union as a terminus station is a good idea (specifically because I never go past Union. I only know the west side stations)
Great video! Rest assured you are not the first modeler to rip up a layout in the middle of construction. I was In the middle of my 4th layout (the previous 3 were completed and great to operate) and never got past laying track and wiring before I realized I didn't really like the track plan or how it would operate. So, out came the tools of destruction and I'm back to plywood getting ready to do the backdrop and fascia then on to the track plan and wiring.
Regarding Solder:
60/40 Rosin Core solder, no flux or use acid-free flux. The rosin core is the flux and cleans as it melts. It also has a relatively low melting point and doesn't take long to melt once touched to heated wire or rail (also works extremely well on nickel surfaces, namely model railroad track). Also, no soldering of stranded wire. Only solder solid wire, use crimp connectors on stranded wire for terminal connections.
Model railroading tips:
For N Scale:
Peco code 80 flex track and at least their medium (#6) turnouts. Always reliable!
For All Scales (N & HO mainly):
Wire every section of track and DO NOT SOLDER RAIL JOINERS (only exception: when a curve uses 2 pieces of track then solder the joint.) You could solder turnouts of a yard ladder, but at some point you need to allow an expansion joint (just like engineers do in the real world).
Less is more!
K.I.S.S (Keep It Simple Stupid) (not calling anyone or anything that, it's just what it means)
-Just my opinion but it is that of a 30+ year electrician and model railroader.
It's encouraging that your suggestions align with what I've learned. I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience/thoughts.
Yeesh, that’s too bad. Selfishly I look forward to your next track plan and new layout. Seeing you and Kris start over gives me the itch.
Mark. New layout great
Doooo eeeet! Wasting money is fun!
"...the opportunity to fix them." That's the spirit!
Good analysis and I hope you’ll find joy in building your new and improved layout! And modules: That will really help you in building it.
Wow, my goodness, thank you for sharing this with us, good luck with the rebuild. For future reference, you can use Rosin-core Flux
It’s a lot to take in but love the plan. I will enjoy what ever you end up doing. Looking forward to it
As soon as I saw you hold up the flux, I felt sick... Hate to see this. This is why soldering techniques were always harped on in RMC and MR even back in the 70s. The best part of this admission on video is that hopefully it educates others just like the magazines did for me and many others in the past.
Nice work, by the way (N has come a long way). I wish you luck with the rebuild, for it's frustrating, I realize, but certainly a great opportunity to learn from mistakes.
Definitely made some of those same mistakes myself in the past. My sympathies.
Realizing what went wrong and what you're unhappy about with one's layout is key to making the next one even better. Tearing down the old layout hurts, but looking forward to the next one and the opportunities it will present have always been a great joy for me.
I'm now on layout number 7 (we've moved a lot), and every one of them has taught me something.
Good luck on your future model railroading endeavors.
That's terrible news! You had me running to check my paste. The effort invented is heart breaking. I'm close by if you need assistance! Best of luck and looking forward to the new layout.
Can't wait to see the next version! As for something to add to the discussion, I think adding a drawer underneath with whatever straight track you can save from the old layout would make a great way to store pre made consists and easily transfer them to the track.
Perfect idea!
@@NScaleDystopia Glad you enjoy! Hope the demolition progress will allow you to save enough track to not need to spend any on new tracks.
I really resonate with your situation; both where I've been and where I'm considering going. I'm just at the design phase of a new layout, and much of your story is mirrored in what I'm considering. My last layout, started 10 years ago, was taken apart for a move into a new location, and I'm actually glad. While mostly unfinished, it was a bit too large and not quite planned as well as it should have. It also used code 55, because 'the serious N scale guys' all did, and it seemed expected to follow suit.
The thing is, I was modeling winter, with the tracks mostly buried in snow, and I realized that using code 80 would probably have been a better choice as the more-prototypical ties and rail height were completely obscured. I also used scratchbuilt turnouts, although not by choice - I thought people who did that were slightly mad, eccentric wizards who probably mumbled a lot and preferred obscure cheeses from countries I'd never heard of.
The reason, as I understand it, was that Atlas was having severe issues with a factory in China and the turnout supply had evaporated - and I was just at the point where I needed turnouts. Ugh. Anyway, I set out to learn the dark art of scratchbuilding code 55 turnouts. Turned out it's not really difficult and involves not much sorcery at all, and they were actually quite reliable - more than the Atlas code 55 switches I'd used! My mumbling has increased, however, and the obscure cheeses at the supermarket have started looking oddly appealing. I'm sure it's a coincidence.
Anyway, your willingness to embrace code 80 (and you are a Serious N Scale Guy) has given me the reassuring nudge to take a look at code 80 again. Poor reliability stops being fun in a serious hurry.
Thank you for the fresh approach to showing what you're doing - I'm taking notes!
Great video, sorry to hear about all the frustrations but thank you for sharing.
I love the dark theme of your layout and modelling. Keep up the awesome work bud and I look forward to your updates 🤘
I look forward to seeing your new journey.
100% relatable. I'm on my 4th attempt/rebuild, each time cutting back the bloat. Less truely is more!
Sad to hear, dude. This is a very cool project, hope you can get a handle on it.
I've come to the realization that the process is, maybe, more enjoyable that the result. I'm enjoying building my layout so much, I may never actually finish it! Sure, I plan to run trains. But I expect to be running trains AND adding new structures, greenery and maybe even route changes at the same time.
I look forward to watching your "Starting Over" videos!
Been there done that and my new layout much better in every way. Best of luck with the next one. Always enjoy your videos.
Fascinating video, hello from Australia, in 2010 in Perth i met Richard Johnson of DCC concepts who were based here then. I had been discussing a return to the hobby after a 40 year absence. I had begun adding droppers to an N gauge layout that would become 180 metres of code 55 and 60+ electro frog turnouts and mentioned to him i was using "Bakers soldering fluid" to which he quickly advised be what would happen and suggested his flux, luckily i listened. I have a large layout with a helix anda lower storage and get very few derailments using the Peco large rad points in code 55. My gripe is keeping the track clean. Really enjoyed your video good luck with the new build.
Thanks very much! Happy your friend slapped your hand before you'd gone too far with the Bakers fluid!
as someone that has built 6 layouts at home and working on the 3rd at the club starting over is just part of the hobby. Every time you start over you take what you have learned and apply it to the new layout. This is why the last thing i do on a layout is ballast my track. if it isn't ballasted then i can easily reuse it and save a ton of money. I have used Code 55 on my latest layout at home and i do like it. it does take more more to get to run well but if you really take your time when laying it it will work well. but it is no where near as easy to use as code 80.
I don't mind starting over, and when I consider the changes I want to make, it I feel grateful that I've been forced to go for it!
I'm sorry you are having to restart due to issues but, it does comfort me knowing that my small, dining table layout with two loops and a small yard will suit me just fine. I just want to see the trains run. I'll be using Kato track and (mostly) Kato engines. I have a plan and have bought almost everything I need for my plan. Good luck. I'll be watching.
I have used resin cored solder for over 40 years and have never had an issue with a wire to wire or wire to rail joint. Have never used flux. I just prep the surface as required so it “accepts” solder.
Don’t solder rail together (unless it is a short piece a couple of inches long) and ALWAYS put a dropper from EVERY rail to the track bus.
Have you considered the Blueline switch machines as they are manual control and give you a DPDT switch for the frog and panel LEDs.
Peco track is king. In New Zealand it is difficult to get other brands, but those that have used those keep coming back to Peco. All of their track products are easy to use and very reliable over the decades. I always use live frog switches and switch the frog via the switch machine.
Good luck with the rebuild.
Cheers Brendon
Thanks for your honest remarks. I live near Niagara Falls on Lake Erie in the peninsular. I model in On3 scale but can agree with benchwork expansion. I should have used metal studs for the benchwork as I have problems with expansion. I have recently installed a splitter system in my home plus added a de-humidifier. I also hand - laid my turnouts and have the exact same problems with the poit rails detaching from the throw bar. I do not have any track power as my locos are all Power On Board. however, I have discovered that my points do detach from the throw bar as the tortoise switch motors are pretty powerful. Good luck with your new endeavours.
I was taught in electronics class in High School back in 1965-1969 to never use acid flux with copper it was meant for use with sheet metal work, only use resin style fluxes for use with copper and brasses. The difference is solders for plumbing should never be used for electronics, I typically use rosin core solders that are lead/tin rather then the new non leaded solders. Melting point temp is lower so less damage to parts.
The flux was in the bottom of my 'plumbing bucket'... taken from my grandfathers... Next time: read the label.
Dude I totally relate. I'm about to tear my down and start over. I've been stuck on laying the track cause I winged it and didn't have a plan. I just been working on scenery and models. Salvage what I can and move on I suppose. Good luck!
I had the same issue with my backdrops. To solve this I ovalized the wholes where the screws go though and this allowed the masonite board to expand and contract.
A well-done analysis of a very discouraging situation. That said, from what I saw of your first iteration, the second I believe will be a stunner! I saw several things, such as broad curve radii, a cohesive theme, and the beginnings of scenery, on the current layout that were indicators of a strong skill set that's only going to get stronget.
Thank you very much. I'm excited for the new challenge and and I'm confident I'm going to be much happier second time around.
@9:19 - I hear you there! I recently had a very similar issue on my OO9 narrow gauge layout...and of course the track had to pop right inside the tunnel no less 😅
It becomes a bit too dystopian when the layout itself has become deteriorated dystopian infrastructure. Many will learn and benefit from your sharing of your experiences. I thank you for sharing them with all of us.
I wish you all the luck I can!
I love your content, and I hope that you'll be able to get your trains running again soon!
N scale can be especially unforgiving of track issues. Sounds like you've had a tremendous--if inadvertent--learning experience and the rebuilt layout will be all the better for it.
Sorry your layout was wracked with so many irreparable flaws, Denny. I know you'll be able to rebuild your layout even better moving forward! I'm confident you'll make a layout that's absolutely bullet-proof!
On the subject of over complicating things on the layout, especially the turnouts. My layout is my first proper layout getting back into the hobby. It was hard to not get overly ambitious and have signals, turnout motors, and switch boards on the layout. Like you mentioned about keeping the enjoyment of running trains, I opted for the manual approach. I use ground throughs and it's made my life a lot easier.
I look forward to see what your next layout will look like and the processes and decisions you choose!
We are kindred spirits - lessons taken from experience. Thanks!
This video should be required for anyone starting their first layout! I have experienced many of the same problems and am now really simplifying things to better enjoy running trains. I also have shifted my focus to high quality structures and less on a complicated track plan.
This video has convinced me to rethink my plans for my still-to-be-built modular layout. I was going to use Atlas Code 55 track; but now I am going to look into Code 80. Sadly, I have already spend a small fortune on track and turn-outs. I can, at least, take solace that I don't have to rip apart a lot of hard work to start over. And, just maybe, I can sell my track and turn-outs to recover some of the money I have spent.
I've had to do it, 😊 for the same reasons. a quick re-engineer & rebuild. 👍
Oof, yeah, that's gotta sting! Still, as you say, as one door closses, another opens! Looking forward to seeing how the revised layout develops!
if one door closing makes another door open, the interlocking is never gonna let the train leave the platform
@@RoamingAdhocrat Wait... I thought it was the acid solder stopping the trains from running?!?! 😆
@@beardgoblin1090 many things can stop the train running. door interlocks, acid solder... the train receiving maintenance at a competitor's depot...
Wow, that's a bummer that you have to start over but I'm excited to see this new one take shape!
Excellent post.
I've been thinking about making my first layout, and this video seems to hold a lot of great lessons and factors that I've been worried about as I plan. I initially wanted to go hand-laid and have an elevated dogbone with sharp turnouts, and this video is corresponding very well with advice I've been recieving elsewhere about simplifying things down as much as possible while still making a scene I can enjoy watching and operating.
That’s too bad. Live and learn. 1. Don’t use acid based solder paste. 2. Use the “fine sewing machine” style flux used in surface mount electronics. 3. Use lead based solder. The new lead free stuff is crap. 4. Never solder straight track joints, put feeders to each rail. 5. Make joints tight when laying track in summer, leave a bit of space when laying track in winter, even with climate control.Can’t wait to see the new project
Oh man... so sorry to hear this happened to you. You are handling the situation very well. Everyone loves giving advice, or pointing out the obvious and so normally i don't like to add my commentary to the pile, but I have an idea I've used on my own HO layout that works quite well for me. I had a bunch of Kato HO unitrack left over from when I got back into the hobby, so I used it on all my hidden staging. It's not pretty, but it is dependable and forgiving of changes in roadbed. It's something you might want to try before you build to see if it can work for you. There should be lots of N scale unitrack available second hand as it is far more common in N scale. Just a thought to try and help out in a bad situation. Hope it all works out well for you in future.
The advice has been great - this is hobby for sharing - I can take it. You raise a good point - bullet proof (read: idiot proof) track for the staging. *Noted.
Every cloud has a silver lining... You are correct -- if you do not "nip this in the bud" now, you will grow ever more frustrated with the current layout to the point you might give up. So by starting over now, and incorporating the lessons learned, you are more likely going to continue enjoying this hobby for a long time to come.
After hearing what you said about Code 55 track, I am now reconsidering the choices I made.
Many, many years ago, when I started out in this hobby, I was given advice that Atlas Code 55 flextrack was the way to go -- more prototypical in look (as you said) than Code 80. So, I invested heavily in Atlas Code 55 flextrack and turn-outs. (I am afraid to even attempt to calculate the money spent. 💸💸💸) I am far from an experienced modeler, so I want a reliable layout where I am not spending every second minute re-railing cars, or futzing with finnicky turn-outs.
Fortunately, unlike you, my layout is still only on paper. However, I am very near the point of starting to build. I am going with a modular layout adhering to N-Track (formerly N-Rail) standards -- with the exception of track size (as I said, I was planning to use Atlas Code 55; but N-Track standard is Atlas or Peco Code 80). I was always just going to "just deal with it" should I take my modules to shows and link them to those belonging to other people. But after hearing all your troubles, I am now having second thoughts. It is one thing tolerating the chatter of "pizza cutter" wheels on Code 55 track; but to have frequent derailments ... that will grow old fast.
I will be attending the model train show being held this coming weekend (17-18 Aug) at ExpoRail railroad museum near Montreal. Perhaps I can find some good deals on Atlas or Peco Code 80 flextrack and turnouts. 🤞
Now, what to do with literally "mint-in-box" Atlas Code 55 #7 straight turn-outs; #2.5 Wyes; 21/15" curved turn-outs; and lengths of flextrack (with brown ties). I would like to recoup at least some of the money spent on all that. 💰💰💰
You can take comfort that, by posting your experiences and sharing the lessons you've learned, you are helping at least one fellow modeler potentially avoid your frustrations and mistakes. Thank you.
I too bought Atlas track and switches based on testimonials I read in Model Railroader Magazine. The last layout had atlas turnouts and I was unhappy with them. The track is *fine*, but its not forgiving enough for me. I suppose metal wheels etc. could make a difference, but as I'm starting fresh - I'll pursue reliability. Thanks for the comment!
I built my layout using Atlas code 55 and did not notice huge issues with it. It was a modular layout so I used small Atlas True-Track pieces over the benchwork joints. They really only came in handy when I disassembled the layout, but it was a reasonably successful experiment. The one thing I did was rather than solder adjoining pieces of track together at the joiners I left small gaps at the joiner between where the two rails met for expansion/contraction and instead soldered a feeder wire to *every* piece of track for reliable power. Just run a higher gauge bus under the layout parallel to the track to connect feeders to. The mainline had #10 turnouts with #7s elsewhere and some #5s at small industries so my mainline trains didn't have issues. I used Tortoise motors at the turnouts to be able to throw them electronically and found them reliable, but they would be pricey on a larger layout.
As a resident of west Hamilton I couldn’t stop watching the tv in the background. I spent a lot of time on the pedestrian bridge at crooks hollow watching the trains go by. It’s always hard to admit one’s mistakes but the improvements you have addressed will definitely be beneficial.
I love that you paid attention to the background vid! That bridge is great!
Good grief, N Scalers nightmare right here. Pretty unbelievable your soldering flux is the root of so many problems. Personally, I use the fine solder from Fast Tracks and some pretty generic electronic soldering flux with good results. Best of luck on your journey! Looking forward to following along 🙂
Dag ... I'm sorry my man but I'm happy to see it all come together ... Yet again 👍🏾
Went though similar things on my journey. you'll just get better at it.
I’m sorry you will have to start over again. But I’m not sorry that I will hopefully get the the whole process from start to finish of the new layout. I’m sure it will be an incredible layout!
This was a great video. Sorry to hear you will take the layout down, but it is understandable. On the operation of switch, check the gauge of your wheel sets on locos and cars. If the gauge is off, they will bump or derail on turnouts. Check the turnouts too to make sure they are in gauge, even though you built them in a jig. For servos, those blue plastic ones are very cheap. For a little more money, you can get better ones with metal gears that are higher quality and won’t buzz. And yes, keep things as simple as possible.
All important lessons you have learned, life is trial and error. It is also important to make sure your clean the flux off, even the rosen core flux. A old tooth brush and a cup of water or a spray bottle and then dry, or ISP or mineral spirits. Yes acid core is not good for trains.
Also when building the new layout, Built it with height and reach issues in mind and make it so it can be moved if it becomes necessary. Your young now, but give some thought to how will you work and maintain your layout when your older or if you (god forbid) hurt a leg or knee. TYVM for sharing your experience and lessons learned, as well as sharing what you did that did work. One last thought and perhaps you know this, when gluing down cork or track, don't use a glue that will dissolve when it comes time for ballasting. I found tilebond wood glue worked well for gluing track to cork as it became waterproof, but I could still use a putty knife to get the track up (with out damage) later if didn't like it. Also I found pre soldering 2 pieces of flex track together with feeder at the joint, then use rail jointers to connect the next 2 pieces. store.mrhmag.com/store/p131/ebook/run-like-a-dream-trackwork.html --- Good book with valuable info, I bought the whole series and it was a great investment. Good luck and have fun , I m looking forward to your next project.
I can feel age starting to take hold - I am considering how I want to pamper my eyes, knees and back. The suggestion about the glue and the intermittent rail joiners / soldered rails are good suggestions - thank you.
Finally, an honest review about FastTracks handlaid turnout track idea
Amazing video quality, such an eloquent speaker. Sounds like it gave you the excuse to fix all the other issues were far more annoying than the flux. An unreliable layout is not a fun layout to operate. Manual turnout controls for the win! I think a stub station would be fun. Capture the flavour of Toronto.
I also make my own turnouts, N scale code 55. Of course I have a supply of rosin flux for all electronics, and I was wondering should I use that for a mechanical joint such as the copper PC board to the nickel silver rail. I decided on petroleum based acid flux. SRA #130. Acid flux is great when bonding non copper materials such as nickel alloys or nickel silver which are the rails composition. Jewelers use it all the time. For mechanical joints I would think this is the best method. However, it does need to be cleaned. I use a brass wire brush first, then I take it to the sink and with a toothbrush and hot water scrub the turnout thoroughly . When dry, I will then get some baking soda and just brush the baking soda on again as a thick paste with water. Then rinse it off. It really doesn't take much effort. Petroleum based acid flux resists the solder joint from corroding. Now for connecting feeders etc I use rosin flux. First, it really isn't a mechanical joint. Second it is impossible to clean. And for stranded wire, acid flux will get under the insulation and corrode the wire underneath. So, for mechanical joints, especially non copper like rail, acid flux is preferred only when it can be thoroughly cleaned. Rosin flux for everything else.
I'd imagine most of us have a list of mistakes made, and improvements we'd like to make. Even my micro layouts cause me to rethink and rebuild.
Can't wait to see what comes of this
A lot of solder used for soldering electronics has a kind of flux in its "core". So extra flux is not needed. I assume it's the correct kind of flux. I'm a big fan of pre-soldering and I think with the right stuff it's not an issue.
That sucks brah, but at least your frustration is leading you to avoid the mistakes you made the first time around rather than walk away entirely. Hopefully this next time around won't take you too long to build.
Very unfortunate but live and learn. I tore down and restarted my layout in 2020 for many of the same reasons. Just was not happy with its performance and it was actually easier to start fresh.
Look at Peco code 55 flex track. It is really code 80 rail buried in the plastic ties. You can also easily connect it to code 80 Atlas or Peco track and use with Peco code 55 and code 80 turnouts.
My train club. Reached the more mow than the amount of work it would take to build new so, we removed the original layout, down to the concrete floor, and rebuilt it all then COVID hit. Our club collapsed. Keep up the enjoyment.
I pulled my much smaller layout apart entirely. Haven't rebuilt yet, but I am feeling better about everything as I can approach the rebuild with a much clearer vision and with a lot more experience than I had with the first layout.
The thing about code 55 is you HAVE to verify all wheels are in gauge with a NMRA gauge. I never has an issue with Atlas code 55 once I verified wheel gauge was 100%. If you are not doing this already, your letting yourself fail on good operating trains. It doesn't matter the scale, it's a must.
Yup. Every loco and car needed minor adjustments.