I edit exactly the same way as you do Kristian, I also like to edit in Cubase because of easy foldering the drums to group editing mode. In this particular case, there is a big benefit having kicks in midi, because you can do anything to them separately. I very often deal with double kick editing of a real drum and sometimes you cant just use group editing and must move kicks separately as they are most forgiving element of the kit. The only problem are room mics sometimes. Yes, it is a kind of a trial and error thing, but I just keep focusing on the the most natural drum performance feeling and use whatever fits in.
I remember when Kohle was editing drums on Termination Redux (Aborted) and Sven and I sat behind him and just started laughing out loud because Kohle’s editing skills were so ridiculously fast that it looked like when you hold down enter in windows when a pop up won’t go away. Crazy skills, legend.
A trick I really like for reaper that I’m sure most daws have a form of, when you put all the tracks in a bus it shows a waveform of all the tracks combined in the blank bus track so all of your shells are clear and sharp and in one spot, as opposed to how in overheads sometimes toms or softer hits can look softer and not have as clear of transients
That's seriously underrated until people stumble upon it. Took me ages to work out that it was a 'hidden' hint to getting better drum sounds. Especially when using samples.
I glue the snare track and kick track together and use that as cue for transient detection & stretch markers. Snap them to the grid and it usually takes me pretty far. Rest by hand. Using the correct time stretch algorithm is important. Can’t remember right now which was the best, but IIRC, ”tonal optimized” was the worst, ironically.
I'd love to see a comparison between different levels of editing for a song. Like full on-the-grid, partially-edited and raw (in the context of a full mix). It'd be interesting to see the differences in feel and dynamic. Same thing with the same song recorded with and without a click track.
And yes, slip editing works in REAPER as well. The default method is Alt/Opt + left click and drag. I changed a mouse modifier so I can drag the bottom half of a media item to skip edit without an additional keypress. I also use track based edit grouping so I don't have to manually group the drums. This is great if I am editing a bit while in a comping workflow.
@@LetsTalkAboutReaper Duuuude thanks so much for the tip with the bottom half of the media item. Didn't know it had that option. Huge time saver. Thanks!
I have not tried editing an actual acoustic drums but am struggling with a MIDI file recorded by a drummer who does not understand notes and quantizing. It's true that this is the most time consuming instrument to mix / edit. I am a guitarist and used to be really stressed out putting my guitar in place on the grid. Now, after spending a week on just a single MIDI drum track, I probably will never feel bad editing guitars again (with the exception of tone /Eqing it).
@@KohleAudioKult As far as I can tell, we can't do this in protools. There's a bit of a lame version using numerical + - keys to nudge, but you can't do it freely with the mouse. If you know how to, please share. That function would save me a shit load of time
It blows my mind that videos like this are so rare on TH-cam (or I just haven’t come across them!) amazing tips! Can’t wait to join kohle audio kult 🤙🏻
Thank You Kristian for this video ! I tried to find the shortcut to have the scissors directly with a command without always reaching to it on the toolbar and never really found it, and now, not only did you give me 3 awesome shortcuts to save so much time, but I also learned the existence of the "Slip Editing" wich I didn't know at all. That's so great ! Vielen Dank !!
I am so glad you are working in Cubase because it seems all tutorials I see use Logic or ProTools. For me it is very hard to do the drum editing because I am not that good at metal drumming....so if the hits of the snare drum and the bass drum are actually not really in the same spot, that means I HAVE TO move the tracks out of phase, or no?! It is frustrating because even if a take felt really good and on time, the hits are really all over the place. Playing on click is so incredibly hard. Also I just realized that this video came out yesterday at the perfect time for me :) Thanks
I bought the course. Heh answered a lot of questions. I do have one though. You edit the snare hits from the overheads. That aligns the snare on the grid. But what about kick? Move down to the kick drum,keep them all grouped and grid the kick drum based on the kick track?? Course is friggen great. 😊
that’s a great idea, lots of mixing videos out there, but it always starts with great tracks... doing records, at least for me, is spending far more time recording stuff in small increments, comping, beat detectiv-ing drums and elastic audio stretching guitar DIs, than actually doing mixing lol
Kohle it is important to note that scrolling with SHIFT key only works if "Automatischer Bildlauf" is activated. So if it doesn't work for you, press (F) to activate this. Because I was just wondering why it didn't work for me.
Super easy to follow concept. Way too many youtube videos out there making this look like black magic when it clearly isn't! I use Reaper and the slip editing is the same as this - super quick and easy. when using dynamic split (the Reaper equivalent of beat detective), you have to manually check/move anyway, so I don't bother with that and just do it manually.
Your technique is amazing, speeded up my editing so much, thank you! One question: which chapter in the course do you go through your fade settings? I can't seem to find it?
Serious question; in order to harness more control over bleed and phase issues, do you ever take a drum session and sample kick, snare, toms, cymbals then paste those samples into the grid and build the drum track like electronic drum programming?
Would love to know how to "slip edit" in Pro Tools. Ive been editing drums in Pro Tools for over a decade and didnt know you could slide the clip that way. Obviously it's not simply selecting slip mode, but there's got to be some other selection in order to slide the clip the way you did at 12:48 in this video.
So, the first thing, about moving all the tracks, often my internal kick mic doesn't line up with the kick hits on the overheads, for example. I have no choice but to pull the kick mic forward about 80 samples, but when I do so it makes it so they do line up, and they line up throughout the entire sequence. This is just starting from kick and 2 overheads. It's also set up in a way that it's 180° out of phase, but I correct that by flipping the phase of the overheads. There's no way around both of these things though, other than having some kind of box to delay the kick mic by maybe 2 milliseconds or so, and also using a reverse polarity cable on the kick mic. I don't have the equipment to do this. That said, my kick is recorded internally by a mic very close to the batter head and with a heavy piece of high density foam covering the front of the kick drum, so that I can record with the front head off but still have the low end controlled. This isolates the hell out of it. My kick tracks have basically no bleed. Snare close mics are a different story, but I fortunately have a heavy snare hand and the most obnoxiously loud 9mm handgun of a snare drum, so a pair of mini k47s, set to figure-8, in Blumlein, with a heavy panel hanging right over them so that they aren't picking up Reflections from the back, is perfectly adequate snare drum pickup. The only thing I can't do is have a gated snare track that triggers a sample, but I'm making punk rock, so I generally want to keep my real drums intact. That lack of alignment between the kick and the overheads becomes problematic though, I definitely do have to move the kick forward some.
Oh, I think I misunderstood. You don't mean all tracks have to move together if they're going to move at all, you just mean that if you are going to move a track you have to move the whole thing? If that's the case, disregard my entire long-winded comment I guess.
A big challenge of editing drums is when there's a drum fill for example, and the toms are kinda OK, but the kick is not hitting when it should (kinda inbetween the tom hits). In that case, it is impossible for me to get a good sounding edit by moving all the tracks at once. The solution for me is that I edit all the tracks together based on tom hits, then move the kick track separately and then apply a hi-pass filter on overheads to get rid of possible phase issues (in other mics, the kick is not that much of an issue). If you have a better solution, I would love to hear that :) Great video btw, slip editing ftw, thanks :)
nice idea!!! when i am stumbling onto these problems like a fill (when there is no cymbal work existing at all) or a so called tom part/break I mostly tend to use the samples I always do after the drum recording to get every version of playing the kit extra...kicks, snares, kicks and snares together, kick and crashs, kick and tom together....You get the idea... Of course it takes a little time but then I don't have to use filtering or plugins to solve the problems. Just my 2 cents ;)
It heavily depends on the performance of course. First fix is NOT to correct the timing to 100%, that's usually a good compromise. If you know the drummer has problems, let him skip the kick and record it separately. Or just use a midi kick (like I do for faster metal) Last option is to edit the kick separately. Like you said you can get away with it if the main kick low end comes from the close mic.
It's also a good idea before doing any editing to save the session as "Raw Drums Tracks." Then as soon as you start editing, save the session as "Edited Drum Tracks." That way you don't accidentally save over the raw natural performance, just in case.
I've been looking into it as well. So far, I've only found a limited version using the + and - keys on the numerical pad to nudge the audio. If you hold control while hitting them, it acts the same way, but I can't find a way to freely move the mouse with such a slip mode. Quite disappointing
Ah yes, finally someone really showing how to edit drums to the grid. I knew that one shouldn't just move close miced tracks but I still had my suspicions how overheads and room mics would act when they're cutted to pieces. Apparently the editing is easier than I thought but yet again, about as much a pain in the ass nevertheless. :D
In reaper quantizing is super fast and easy to do with stretch markers. I'm sure other daws have something similar to offer. No plugins needed. TH-cam has tutorials how to do it, but you basically add stretch markers to all hits using transient detecting and then snap the markers to grid. Amazing time saver that won't cost a penny
Question about rule #2: what about kicks? I’ve seen a lot of performances where the kicks need to be edited considerably while the rest of the drums do not. Assuming that you’re sample replacing the kicks the phase issues are no longer a problem, no?
What do you do if one of the drums is out of time and the others are fine? Like when a kick and snare are supposed to be hit simultaneously, but one of them is slightly delayed by mistake.
Hi! How the drum editing implies recording of other instruments? Do you edit drums first, then record the rest (and give musicians edited drums into IEMs) or everyone is recording to the click only? Or you record all instrument first and edit later? Or something else? :) Thanks!
Hi kohle i have an issue with slip editing. When i cut the section i am unable to shift to left side. In other words if a transient is late i am unable to shift it to the left to put on grid. But shifting to the right is ok, it is just shifting to left that is limited. Hope i make sense. Thanks in advance.
After snare is done, going by the overheads, do you then do the exact same thing for kick? Or can you do snare and kick at same time (going by the overheads). Prob in the course lol
Yeah, thx a lot!!!! I do manual editing for years, as ALL automations suck regarding put the drums into grid (or better... near the grid belonging how the band played at all as it can be supercool when drums are a bit ahead or laid back in different parts to make it more energetic or less... depends on the parts, of course)... I experienced that I am much faster doing it manually in spite of using the cubase auto tool...you have to select and prepare every part like hell and this costs so much time that it just makes no sense. regardless of the fails that will show up and remove them will add extra time. Several little things I would like to add... (maybe more important on non metal music where the grid is even less important)... I always do my editing WITHOUT hearing the click track as it will distract me from how it will sound in the end. Sometimes you just realize you dont have to change some hits as it is great as it was played in the recording...drum fills...laid back attitude... stuff like that... if it fits with the other instruments.... I just do not care about it... more: the slip editing is really nice and saves really a big amount of time...but.... when I do it the same way as you have shown in the video I would prefer to make ALL your cuts in the whole part you want to edit first..because you will "destroy" all the let me say perfect hits done later in this one...means you will have to edit every hit then, when maybe just 2 or 3 were badly set. Hope that was understandable... I loved when Cubase implemented group editing so I did not have to select every track with the mouse what was always a pain in the ass and even more disgusting when you forgot the room mics on the bottom of your folder and realized it 2 minutes later haha ;) My way of doing edits was just looking at kick and snare in regarding to the OHs (like you've shown), then set a cut with ALT+Mouse, doing the next cut for the next Kick or Snare to not destroy the original like I mentioned before... move it in place and then hit X for doing the Crossfade... mostly easy when the hits were to late (as they are not very often you name it lol) but when they are to early you sometimes have troubles with the left side showing up a little bit of the transients of kick or snare in the crossfade itself...then I had to move the crossfade again to the left to get rid of that. So.... I will try to learn slip editing in the future because then there is no such a problem. Long story short... BIG THUMBS UP!!!! This technique is a huge topic in itself. Hugs from Leipzig.
fuck seems I missed this feature years ago.... shame on me :) thanx again for all your work. I've been watching your videos for a very long while now and learned so fckn much, worth interesting especially in my more non metal workflow.... cubase lovers despite dom (lil bit too advertising for my taste) are quite rarely set in my opinion. so to keep it short... I am one of your first ones in making benefit of your tutorilas. big luv.
One question is every time you edit something, wouldn't you be moving hits that could potentially already be in the right spot? In that case you would basically be forcing yourself to edit every single hit, when in reality it might not be needed.
I was thinking the same exact thing. He did cut one snare hit in the front and back before he moved it. I'm used to cutting everything I edit before and after the transient guitars, bass, drums, vocal everything.
Yes. There’s a more “advanced” technique where you group all the tracks, create hit points on the top snare track and then use those hit points to slice all the grouped tracks. You need to do this with the kick track as well. Toms you would just cut/slip manually.
11:31 But shouldn’t I also cut behind the i.e. snare hit, so I don‘t move the complete track? Because if I don’t, all next hits might be late or too early. That‘s why I need to dive into phase correct Warp editing in the latest Cubase version. Prior to that I did it manually and I was overwhelmed especially since the room mike made cuts even more difficult.
I tend to work on looser genres that I don't edit so tightly. My default is to cut at the beginning and end of sections that will need heavy editing that way when you slip the tracks they don't move everything after them, just the region you are editing. You often don't need to do that for every hit you can do it for quite large sections. If you're doing more technical metal and you're not trying to keep the performance feel you can do it like the video and nail everything to the grid. I bet his follow up "chapters" have a better method than mine though, I might have to check out the whole course!
That was confusing because you didn't cut ahead of the hit that you're moving - meaning : you cut and move but now you're dragging the entire performance. So a hit in the future that is on the grid, it is now being moved off the grid. ? By the way, what version of ProTools Has Sip edit? Or is it even called slip edit in ProTools? Thanks so much for any future info here
Haben vor einiger Zeit die Drums für unsere EP genau so editiert. Allerdings bei weitem nicht so Blastbeat mäßig mit den Fingern 😅. Mega 🤘. Die Short Cuts hatte ich so allerdings auch nicht parat, wäre dann wohl auch fixer gewesen. Aber das probier ich dann mal beim Bass. Machst du denn noch ein Crossfade oder hast du Cubase direkt so eingestellt einen Fade/Crossfade zu machen? Greetz
I have a question : is it something you would consider...having the drummer not playing the kick at all in some situations ? lets say you have a pretty fast song and the drummer have too much trouble and you know at the end you will replace the kick. Since i take a guess, but a lot of songwriter must have their song in gtr pro or they have their demo with a midi drum...
But what you need to do when the shot is late and after you moving you cannot make it long because you have another shot. I often use OH moves separately
I don’t. And I do use auto in / out and crossfades. The manual process is just to explain the principles of the editing. Check out the entire course and you’ll get the full picture!
Super interessantes Video - hat mich auf jeden Fall angefixt mich nochmal näher mit der Materie zu beschäftigen. 😎🤘 Danke dafür! Wenn ich mich in den Kurs einschreibe, allerdings Logic als DAW benutze, wird mich das trotzdem voran bringen, weil du dafür auch Tipps integriert hast oder ist das Cubase Driven? Beste Grüße!
Hi, I was practicing on Cubase your course (thanks a lot) with a random son, just to get the skill When signal is "late", I cut where it need to be, i use Option+Command (on mac) to move the signal to the left, but sometimes it stop moving before it need to go. Is it because it's really too late? Thanks
In that case you have reached "the end of the file". Then you ave to cut off a few seconds at the very end of the files you're working on. That gives you "new headroom"
@@KohleAudioKult thanks a lot man! I found this solution by myself rafter some experiments, but it’s so great to have your approval! Keep the good work man, you really rock!
I got a cubase question...when hes editin hes opening another window. How do i get that? I am teying to figure it out but no luck. Its not as simple as doule click on the event because is sample editing there
wenn du vorher einmal alle track gruppierst, musst du nicht ständig alle auswählen. Wenn es in einem Ordner ist, kann man bei Cubase auch einstellen, dass automatisch immer alle Tracks gemeinsam geschnitten/verschoben etc werden. Hilfreiche Tastenkürzel für das reinzoomen und bewegen im Fenster STRG bwz SHIFT und das Mausrad bewegen. Ansonsten wie immer danke für deine Tips! Mit Kohle ist es immer Rock'o'clock \m/
Question : how do you edit a kick and snare drum that dont hit at the same time when they are supposed to as you cant move any track individually ? Thanks!
Great video! But do you not move the entire song out of position if you edit like this? So after the first one you have to reposition every hit. But maybe some hits are already on point and you would not need to touch them. Or do you want to touch each and every hit anyway so it doesn't matter too much?
Hi Kristian, great video. Question - if I need to make an edit, let’s say to a snare, during a part where there are cymbals being played, do I need to worry about the slip edit making the cymbals sound weird? Thanks!
Thank you for this Video! When i edit drums, the biggest problem i recogniced is something like "Flams" between Snare, Kick, Ride, Hihat. It really drives me crazy when hits are not played well together when they should be. The only thing i do, is to replace single Hits with better ones, but it takes so much time. Are there other Solutions out there or am i the only one with this problems an bad recordings? 😅
I show how I treat "several hits at once" in the course. You can for example do a double cut to minimise the gap between the two hits. If you don't wanna do a double cut always give louder drum / cymbal of the two the perfect timing.
Three things I missing: 1. when you "fill" the gap there are situations where you cannot. Maybe theres a cymbal and you hear the "wusch-wusch" when its repated. Or there another noise. Solutions are: time shifting the gap. Or copy somthing from another part of the song. 2. Do you cut different performances? I do. For instance verse from take 5, chorus from take 7, but the break between both from take 3 or so. 3. Hot to copy fucked up hits? For instance a snare hit is to soft. Copy only the snare top track? Or even overheads?
Heyho! Good points! 🤘 Number 2 is covered in the course. Number 3 is not covered because it has nothing to do with the timing. Concerning Number 1: Of course you can only fill the gap to a certain amount. If there are other drums popping up, that means the drum performance is too bad to be edited to a 100% accurate timing. In that case you have to make compromises. But I’m also showing that in the course.
@@KohleAudioKult Thanks for answer. A question to to point 2. Say you have a great performance of a refrain for instance. May it be take 11. Really good, otherwise your wouldn't use it. But in bar 57 is a mistake. How do you look in take 10, take 9 etc. if this bar is played better and fits into perfomance of take 11? Technically in Cubase.
Das slide-editing ist cool... hat Logic ähnlich aber mal wieder "nur" mit festen Rasterwerten (man möge mich berichtigen , wenn ich es nur nicht anders gefunden habe); bei Drumediting/Programming hat Cubase irgendwie immer die Nase vorn - bzw bekommt es Logic einfach nicht hin, sowas ähnlich effizientes mal nachzubauen... -_-
Mmm I think this can be improved. First you should group and lock the takes, that way you can cut, move, adjust and all of them will move together so I t is impossible to make just one track as accident. Then you can cut your hits from the beginning of the hit and press Q for quantize. Once you have a group of hits ready or the hole song ( I suggest to do it in sections) you can select them all and move the beginning of the hit to the left, so there is space for the crossfade without destroying the attack. Then you can hit x and do the crossfades for the whole group. You will have to inspect that the crossfades are in the correct position but there will be just a few things to check. Doing it this way will save you a lot of time.
You can also detect transient for kick and snare by example and create marks automatically then you can go from them using b and n shortcuts next and back.
and if youre an anxious engineer you hold ctrl and drill that S button. The amount of time, the pressure and the tempo you hit that S button reflect how you suffered as an engeneer 😂
In the course I'm trying to explain everything as "general" as possible and most of the information works within any major DAW. Doing a course for every single DAW out there is a little much!
Man unless you are recording something really simple, beat detective always made things way worse. Technical Death Metal never works with those kind of tools. Cool video dude!
Why does everything always have to be beaten onto the grid in metal? It sucks out life of every performance. But I think that's just the way it is these days.
Devil's advocate time here. In all probability the other instruments in the mix were tracked to the drums. By snapping the drums to grid you change the feel of the other instruments as well. What are you going to do? Warp the guitars and bass and mess with that performance as well? I get fixing something that really is a mistake, but the modern metal obsession with drums quantised to look like an Excel spreadsheet has really killed the subtleties that micro timings bring to the table.
Drums are the first instrument of a session. I usually edit the drums directly after the recording. Then everybody else plays to the edited drums. Problem solved! Why should someone record tracks to drums with a bad timing in the first place just to correct the timing later? Makes no sense to me.
@@KohleAudioKult That makes sense, to first edit the drums. Whichever way: I think there lies a stark difference between fixing a hit here or there with obviously bad timing, and editing entire performances down to a grid. A fair amount of drummers you work with don't have bad timing by any stretch of the imagination, and I simply don't see the point in snapping great drummers to grid. If there are electronics or delays involved with specific note values, sure. But for most other cases, what exactly is it about a human performance that you find so incredibly offensive?
I do everything from no editing at all to full editing depending on the project. It depends on a lot of factors. 95% of all Metal these days is 100% quantized though.
But when you move a hit and you do not cut behind it also to seperate it from everything that is happening behind it, you are moving the entire performance behind the hit. So you are moving all the hits behind your edited hit, that might have been in time. That´s a big mess you are creating. I can´t believe you are doing it like this. It´s ruining the whole drum performance and takes for shure a thousand clicks...
Wanna improve your drum editing skills? Let me know! 🥸
Please 🥁🍄 (bittttttee)
Da muss ich wohl in den Kult eintreten…
I edit exactly the same way as you do Kristian, I also like to edit in Cubase because of easy foldering the drums to group editing mode. In this particular case, there is a big benefit having kicks in midi, because you can do anything to them separately. I very often deal with double kick editing of a real drum and sometimes you cant just use group editing and must move kicks separately as they are most forgiving element of the kit. The only problem are room mics sometimes. Yes, it is a kind of a trial and error thing, but I just keep focusing on the the most natural drum performance feeling and use whatever fits in.
Damn you, you got me :D!! See you soon on the academy \m/
I just did this for you! Hope you know that ❤️😇
I remember when Kohle was editing drums on Termination Redux (Aborted) and Sven and I sat behind him and just started laughing out loud because Kohle’s editing skills were so ridiculously fast that it looked like when you hold down enter in windows when a pop up won’t go away.
Crazy skills, legend.
I remember that laugh 😂.
That EP was fun!
A trick I really like for reaper that I’m sure most daws have a form of, when you put all the tracks in a bus it shows a waveform of all the tracks combined in the blank bus track so all of your shells are clear and sharp and in one spot, as opposed to how in overheads sometimes toms or softer hits can look softer and not have as clear of transients
That's seriously underrated until people stumble upon it. Took me ages to work out that it was a 'hidden' hint to getting better drum sounds. Especially when using samples.
I always use all separate drum tracks on mixdown and have an other balanced mixed drumbus which I blend in parallel, works awesome 😎
I glue the snare track and kick track together and use that as cue for transient detection & stretch markers. Snap them to the grid and it usually takes me pretty far. Rest by hand. Using the correct time stretch algorithm is important. Can’t remember right now which was the best, but IIRC, ”tonal optimized” was the worst, ironically.
I'm so used to manual editing that i simply ignored learning about slip editing. My life is now changed forever hahaha
Welcome to your new life! 🤘🤩
Same! This will save so much time!
Feel that tho.. gawd
Finally I understand the benefit of using slip editing! Thanks!
I'd love to see a comparison between different levels of editing for a song. Like full on-the-grid, partially-edited and raw (in the context of a full mix). It'd be interesting to see the differences in feel and dynamic. Same thing with the same song recorded with and without a click track.
I love manual drum editing. For whatever reason, it's relaxing. I definitely prefer the end result to any automated method
And yes, slip editing works in REAPER as well. The default method is Alt/Opt + left click and drag. I changed a mouse modifier so I can drag the bottom half of a media item to skip edit without an additional keypress.
I also use track based edit grouping so I don't have to manually group the drums. This is great if I am editing a bit while in a comping workflow.
Haha! It can indeed be relaxing, but not if you have to do it for 8 hours!
@@KohleAudioKult it is if that portion is billed by the hour 😂
This message has been brought to you by the fine people at metronome training 😂
@@LetsTalkAboutReaper Duuuude thanks so much for the tip with the bottom half of the media item. Didn't know it had that option. Huge time saver. Thanks!
I have not tried editing an actual acoustic drums but am struggling with a MIDI file recorded by a drummer who does not understand notes and quantizing. It's true that this is the most time consuming instrument to mix / edit. I am a guitarist and used to be really stressed out putting my guitar in place on the grid. Now, after spending a week on just a single MIDI drum track, I probably will never feel bad editing guitars again (with the exception of tone /Eqing it).
Learned something new! "Slip editing", that's gonna really make it faster for me, thanks!
Enjoy!
@@KohleAudioKult As far as I can tell, we can't do this in protools. There's a bit of a lame version using numerical + - keys to nudge, but you can't do it freely with the mouse.
If you know how to, please share. That function would save me a shit load of time
It blows my mind that videos like this are so rare on TH-cam (or I just haven’t come across them!) amazing tips! Can’t wait to join kohle audio kult 🤙🏻
Thanks! I see you in the Kult! 🤘🥳
Thank You Kristian for this video ! I tried to find the shortcut to have the scissors directly with a command without always reaching to it on the toolbar and never really found it, and now, not only did you give me 3 awesome shortcuts to save so much time, but I also learned the existence of the "Slip Editing" wich I didn't know at all. That's so great ! Vielen Dank !!
I am so glad you are working in Cubase because it seems all tutorials I see use Logic or ProTools. For me it is very hard to do the drum editing because I am not that good at metal drumming....so if the hits of the snare drum and the bass drum are actually not really in the same spot, that means I HAVE TO move the tracks out of phase, or no?! It is frustrating because even if a take felt really good and on time, the hits are really all over the place. Playing on click is so incredibly hard. Also I just realized that this video came out yesterday at the perfect time for me :) Thanks
The kick can be moved separately in certain cases. I’ll talk about that in an upcoming chapter of the course
I wish I knew this two years ago. Thank you very much for the tips!
I bought the course. Heh answered a lot of questions. I do have one though. You edit the snare hits from the overheads. That aligns the snare on the grid. But what about kick? Move down to the kick drum,keep them all grouped and grid the kick drum based on the kick track?? Course is friggen great. 😊
that’s a great idea, lots of mixing videos out there, but it always starts with great tracks...
doing records, at least for me, is spending far more time recording stuff in small increments, comping, beat detectiv-ing drums and elastic audio stretching guitar DIs, than actually doing mixing lol
You're quick!
Must have done this a time or two before.
Thanks for the tips and advice, Kohle!
🤘🤘🤘🤘
Maybe twice…🤣😇
Thanks A LOT for this video! ...and those shortcuts are totally game changing, wow
Do yourself a favor and check out the Ed full course. This is just a snippet. 🤩
Never thought to make a shortcut for "toggle triplet." Trying this on an editing session now!
Kohle it is important to note that scrolling with SHIFT key only works if "Automatischer Bildlauf" is activated. So if it doesn't work for you, press (F) to activate this. Because I was just wondering why it didn't work for me.
ohhh I love rule #2, never thought of that. that's an awesome tip!
Just learned about slip edit, thank you!
k you are a great educator, thanks
Super easy to follow concept. Way too many youtube videos out there making this look like black magic when it clearly isn't! I use Reaper and the slip editing is the same as this - super quick and easy. when using dynamic split (the Reaper equivalent of beat detective), you have to manually check/move anyway, so I don't bother with that and just do it manually.
That’s an amazing lesson. I’ve been manual editing for years and wish I’d had this lesson 15-20 years ago. Slip editing looks like witchcraft 😁
Full course purchased. Can't wait to check it out!
Enjoy!
Your technique is amazing, speeded up my editing so much, thank you! One question: which chapter in the course do you go through your fade settings? I can't seem to find it?
Wow! Never did the slip mode editing thing, have to check it out. And thanks for showing the relevant shortcuts, pretty impressive skills you've got!
Great topic and a gold tutorial on a skill that is 100% needed for every audio producer!
Thanks!
Serious question; in order to harness more control over bleed and phase issues, do you ever take a drum session and sample kick, snare, toms, cymbals then paste those samples into the grid and build the drum track like electronic drum programming?
thankx mr Kohle 🤘🤘
i just found this method about 2 weeks ago in studio one and its more simple.
Would love to know how to "slip edit" in Pro Tools. Ive been editing drums in Pro Tools for over a decade and didnt know you could slide the clip that way. Obviously it's not simply selecting slip mode, but there's got to be some other selection in order to slide the clip the way you did at 12:48 in this video.
Let me know if you figured that one out…😂
nope. lol@@sam19195
So, the first thing, about moving all the tracks, often my internal kick mic doesn't line up with the kick hits on the overheads, for example. I have no choice but to pull the kick mic forward about 80 samples, but when I do so it makes it so they do line up, and they line up throughout the entire sequence. This is just starting from kick and 2 overheads. It's also set up in a way that it's 180° out of phase, but I correct that by flipping the phase of the overheads. There's no way around both of these things though, other than having some kind of box to delay the kick mic by maybe 2 milliseconds or so, and also using a reverse polarity cable on the kick mic. I don't have the equipment to do this. That said, my kick is recorded internally by a mic very close to the batter head and with a heavy piece of high density foam covering the front of the kick drum, so that I can record with the front head off but still have the low end controlled. This isolates the hell out of it. My kick tracks have basically no bleed. Snare close mics are a different story, but I fortunately have a heavy snare hand and the most obnoxiously loud 9mm handgun of a snare drum, so a pair of mini k47s, set to figure-8, in Blumlein, with a heavy panel hanging right over them so that they aren't picking up Reflections from the back, is perfectly adequate snare drum pickup. The only thing I can't do is have a gated snare track that triggers a sample, but I'm making punk rock, so I generally want to keep my real drums intact. That lack of alignment between the kick and the overheads becomes problematic though, I definitely do have to move the kick forward some.
Oh, I think I misunderstood. You don't mean all tracks have to move together if they're going to move at all, you just mean that if you are going to move a track you have to move the whole thing? If that's the case, disregard my entire long-winded comment I guess.
Do you have a programmatic way to remove quiet space from your tracks, or removing Tom hits from snare mic? Gate? Or manually select + delete?
Great instruction
A big challenge of editing drums is when there's a drum fill for example, and the toms are kinda OK, but the kick is not hitting when it should (kinda inbetween the tom hits). In that case, it is impossible for me to get a good sounding edit by moving all the tracks at once. The solution for me is that I edit all the tracks together based on tom hits, then move the kick track separately and then apply a hi-pass filter on overheads to get rid of possible phase issues (in other mics, the kick is not that much of an issue). If you have a better solution, I would love to hear that :) Great video btw, slip editing ftw, thanks :)
nice idea!!! when i am stumbling onto these problems like a fill (when there is no cymbal work existing at all) or a so called tom part/break I mostly tend to use the samples I always do after the drum recording to get every version of playing the kit extra...kicks, snares, kicks and snares together, kick and crashs, kick and tom together....You get the idea... Of course it takes a little time but then I don't have to use filtering or plugins to solve the problems. Just my 2 cents ;)
It heavily depends on the performance of course.
First fix is NOT to correct the timing to 100%, that's usually a good compromise.
If you know the drummer has problems, let him skip the kick and record it separately.
Or just use a midi kick (like I do for faster metal)
Last option is to edit the kick separately. Like you said you can get away with it if the main kick low end comes from the close mic.
Can you please teach how to write and mix/master vst drums?
That will come sooner or later inside Kohle Audio Kult 🤘
@@KohleAudioKult Looking forward to it!
It's also a good idea before doing any editing to save the session as "Raw Drums Tracks."
Then as soon as you start editing, save the session as "Edited Drum Tracks."
That way you don't accidentally save over the raw natural performance, just in case.
In Cubase you can even use „Track versions“ within the same project
That Cubase slip editing blew my mind 😂 never knew that only used Cubase since SX3
Does anyone know how to do the slip edit in pro tools? How can I move the waveform within its region?
Cheers!
I've been looking into it as well. So far, I've only found a limited version using the + and - keys on the numerical pad to nudge the audio. If you hold control while hitting them, it acts the same way, but I can't find a way to freely move the mouse with such a slip mode.
Quite disappointing
Drum editing is definitely not my favourite thing. But I need to look into that slip-editing though, seems I could be wasting a lot less time! 😱
Do it!
Thanks!! Really helpfull!
I'm wondering what's the difference in using stretch markers. I guess one does not get any artefacts. Can I also edit guitars the same way?
Ah yes, finally someone really showing how to edit drums to the grid. I knew that one shouldn't just move close miced tracks but I still had my suspicions how overheads and room mics would act when they're cutted to pieces. Apparently the editing is easier than I thought but yet again, about as much a pain in the ass nevertheless. :D
In reaper quantizing is super fast and easy to do with stretch markers. I'm sure other daws have something similar to offer. No plugins needed. TH-cam has tutorials how to do it, but you basically add stretch markers to all hits using transient detecting and then snap the markers to grid. Amazing time saver that won't cost a penny
Question about rule #2: what about kicks? I’ve seen a lot of performances where the kicks need to be edited considerably while the rest of the drums do not. Assuming that you’re sample replacing the kicks the phase issues are no longer a problem, no?
That’s gonna be addressed in the next chapter of the course. Working on it right now!
@@KohleAudioKult When will the next chapter be uploaded? I can't access the drum editing course link.
@taroaniku3804 Sorry for that! I have just updated the link. Should work now! 🤘
What do you do if one of the drums is out of time and the others are fine? Like when a kick and snare are supposed to be hit simultaneously, but one of them is slightly delayed by mistake.
you get a good drummer.
Hi! How the drum editing implies recording of other instruments? Do you edit drums first, then record the rest (and give musicians edited drums into IEMs) or everyone is recording to the click only? Or you record all instrument first and edit later? Or something else? :) Thanks!
Always record the drums first, edit them and let everybody play to the edited drums!
Hi kohle i have an issue with slip editing. When i cut the section i am unable to shift to left side. In other words if a transient is late i am unable to shift it to the left to put on grid. But shifting to the right is ok, it is just shifting to left that is limited. Hope i make sense. Thanks in advance.
That's because you have no space on the right. Cut off a second at the end of the file and it should work!
After snare is done, going by the overheads, do you then do the exact same thing for kick? Or can you do snare and kick at same time (going by the overheads). Prob in the course lol
You always edit all audio tracks at the same time. And yeah, it’s all in the course 😜
Yeah, thx a lot!!!! I do manual editing for years, as ALL automations suck regarding put the drums into grid (or better... near the grid belonging how the band played at all as it can be supercool when drums are a bit ahead or laid back in different parts to make it more energetic or less... depends on the parts, of course)... I experienced that I am much faster doing it manually in spite of using the cubase auto tool...you have to select and prepare every part like hell and this costs so much time that it just makes no sense. regardless of the fails that will show up and remove them will add extra time. Several little things I would like to add... (maybe more important on non metal music where the grid is even less important)... I always do my editing WITHOUT hearing the click track as it will distract me from how it will sound in the end. Sometimes you just realize you dont have to change some hits as it is great as it was played in the recording...drum fills...laid back attitude... stuff like that... if it fits with the other instruments.... I just do not care about it... more: the slip editing is really nice and saves really a big amount of time...but.... when I do it the same way as you have shown in the video I would prefer to make ALL your cuts in the whole part you want to edit first..because you will "destroy" all the let me say perfect hits done later in this one...means you will have to edit every hit then, when maybe just 2 or 3 were badly set. Hope that was understandable... I loved when Cubase implemented group editing so I did not have to select every track with the mouse what was always a pain in the ass and even more disgusting when you forgot the room mics on the bottom of your folder and realized it 2 minutes later haha ;) My way of doing edits was just looking at kick and snare in regarding to the OHs (like you've shown), then set a cut with ALT+Mouse, doing the next cut for the next Kick or Snare to not destroy the original like I mentioned before... move it in place and then hit X for doing the Crossfade... mostly easy when the hits were to late (as they are not very often you name it lol) but when they are to early you sometimes have troubles with the left side showing up a little bit of the transients of kick or snare in the crossfade itself...then I had to move the crossfade again to the left to get rid of that. So.... I will try to learn slip editing in the future because then there is no such a problem. Long story short... BIG THUMBS UP!!!! This technique is a huge topic in itself. Hugs from Leipzig.
Thanks man! But make sure you engage auto crossfades in Cubase like I do it. It will save you a thousand Xs.
fuck seems I missed this feature years ago.... shame on me :) thanx again for all your work. I've been watching your videos for a very long while now and learned so fckn much, worth interesting especially in my more non metal workflow.... cubase lovers despite dom (lil bit too advertising for my taste) are quite rarely set in my opinion. so to keep it short... I am one of your first ones in making benefit of your tutorilas. big luv.
Lovely Kris
One question is every time you edit something, wouldn't you be moving hits that could potentially already be in the right spot? In that case you would basically be forcing yourself to edit every single hit, when in reality it might not be needed.
I was thinking the same exact thing. He did cut one snare hit in the front and back before he moved it. I'm used to cutting everything I edit before and after the transient guitars, bass, drums, vocal everything.
Yes. There’s a more “advanced” technique where you group all the tracks, create hit points on the top snare track and then use those hit points to slice all the grouped tracks. You need to do this with the kick track as well. Toms you would just cut/slip manually.
Does anyone know what is the command to slide clips inside clips on pro tools?
YES!
11:31 But shouldn’t I also cut behind the i.e. snare hit, so I don‘t move the complete track? Because if I don’t, all next hits might be late or too early. That‘s why I need to dive into phase correct Warp editing in the latest Cubase version. Prior to that I did it manually and I was overwhelmed especially since the room mike made cuts even more difficult.
I tend to work on looser genres that I don't edit so tightly. My default is to cut at the beginning and end of sections that will need heavy editing that way when you slip the tracks they don't move everything after them, just the region you are editing. You often don't need to do that for every hit you can do it for quite large sections.
If you're doing more technical metal and you're not trying to keep the performance feel you can do it like the video and nail everything to the grid.
I bet his follow up "chapters" have a better method than mine though, I might have to check out the whole course!
And he explains one comment later that he cuts into regions before he starts!
That was confusing because you didn't cut ahead
of the hit that you're moving - meaning : you cut and move but now you're dragging the entire performance. So a hit in the future that is on the grid, it is now being moved off the grid. ?
By the way, what version of ProTools Has Sip edit? Or is it even called slip edit in ProTools?
Thanks so much for any future info here
Haben vor einiger Zeit die Drums für unsere EP genau so editiert. Allerdings bei weitem nicht so Blastbeat mäßig mit den Fingern 😅.
Mega 🤘.
Die Short Cuts hatte ich so allerdings auch nicht parat, wäre dann wohl auch fixer gewesen. Aber das probier ich dann mal beim Bass.
Machst du denn noch ein Crossfade oder hast du Cubase direkt so eingestellt einen Fade/Crossfade zu machen?
Greetz
Das geschieht in Cubase! Wird alles im Kurs erklärt
I have a question :
is it something you would consider...having the drummer not playing the kick at all in some situations ?
lets say you have a pretty fast song and the drummer have too much trouble and you know at the end you will replace the kick. Since i take a guess, but a lot of songwriter must have their song in gtr pro or they have their demo with a midi drum...
That’s something I do here and there. Record the kick separately.
Nice, but u don't have to make the crossfades with the slip editing technique?
That’s because Cubase takes care of that. That’s all explained in the full course
you have to make sure cubase makes auto-crossfades. Its a checkbox in the project setting.
whet is the shortcut for that slip function in pro tools on a Mac?
Wouldn't be good to have first a click track of the song itself so then you can reference everything to that?
That’s what we do. Click track + scratch guitar to record drums.
How do you do the 'slip editing' thing on Pro Tools? Is it actually possible?
But what you need to do when the shot is late and after you moving you cannot make it long because you have another shot. I often use OH moves separately
There are other tricks that are way better than ruining the phase relation of your tracks!
@@KohleAudioKult probably I need your curse
Why do you fill up the gaps manually and not just Cross fade?
I don’t. And I do use auto in / out and crossfades. The manual process is just to explain the principles of the editing. Check out the entire course and you’ll get the full picture!
Super interessantes Video - hat mich auf jeden Fall angefixt mich nochmal näher mit der Materie zu beschäftigen. 😎🤘 Danke dafür! Wenn ich mich in den Kurs einschreibe, allerdings Logic als DAW benutze, wird mich das trotzdem voran bringen, weil du dafür auch Tipps integriert hast oder ist das Cubase Driven? Beste Grüße!
Danke!
Ich habe versucht, das so allgemein wie möglich zu halten. die Prinzipien sind ja immer gleich.
I love you bro.
Thank you so much ! Don't you align the snare tracks with the OH ?
Nope! Never. Sounds weird to me. Overhead and room mics need a little delay to sound like they should.
Are you cross-fading all the cuts, or does Cubase do that by itself?
There’s an auto fade function in Cubase that works really well if you make the cuts right
Hi, I was practicing on Cubase your course (thanks a lot) with a random son, just to get the skill
When signal is "late", I cut where it need to be, i use Option+Command (on mac) to move the signal to the left, but sometimes it stop moving before it need to go. Is it because it's really too late?
Thanks
In that case you have reached "the end of the file". Then you ave to cut off a few seconds at the very end of the files you're working on. That gives you "new headroom"
@@KohleAudioKult thanks a lot man!
I found this solution by myself rafter some experiments, but it’s so great to have your approval!
Keep the good work man, you really rock!
I got a cubase question...when hes editin hes opening another window. How do i get that? I am teying to figure it out but no luck. Its not as simple as doule click on the event because is sample editing there
You have to turn the your audio takes into a "part"
wenn du vorher einmal alle track gruppierst, musst du nicht ständig alle auswählen. Wenn es in einem Ordner ist, kann man bei Cubase auch einstellen, dass automatisch immer alle Tracks gemeinsam geschnitten/verschoben etc werden. Hilfreiche Tastenkürzel für das reinzoomen und bewegen im Fenster STRG bwz SHIFT und das Mausrad bewegen. Ansonsten wie immer danke für deine Tips! Mit Kohle ist es immer Rock'o'clock \m/
Ich bin hier im PART Modus, wo es leider kein Track Grouping gibt.
Wird aber im Kurs erklärt warum ich trotzdem da bin. 🙃
@@KohleAudioKult kein SRTG + G möglich?
In Parts gibt’s leider kein Grouping!
Does anynone know how the "slip in place" function is called in Pro Tools? (12:30)
What if you've got multitrack with drums not so perfect but other bass and gtr are already recorded on these drums?
Then you have to be careful with the editing. Use your ears, always check that the editing doesn’t make things worse.
Question : how do you edit a kick and snare drum that dont hit at the same time when they are supposed to as you cant move any track individually ? Thanks!
I just filmed the second chapter of the course which shows exactly that.
@@KohleAudioKult awesome!
Great video! But do you not move the entire song out of position if you edit like this? So after the first one you have to reposition every hit. But maybe some hits are already on point and you would not need to touch them. Or do you want to touch each and every hit anyway so it doesn't matter too much?
I define regions first. Then this type of editing is so much faster. It’s all explained in the course! 😜
Same for guitars and bass?
What do you mean? A Course?
@@KohleAudioKult editing style haha oops!
What was Miloš Maier's editing like? :DD
Easy!
Hi Kristian, great video. Question - if I need to make an edit, let’s say to a snare, during a part where there are cymbals being played, do I need to worry about the slip edit making the cymbals sound weird? Thanks!
You mean if you edit a hit where there is both a snare and a cymbal? In that case just make the timing of the snare perfect. that usually works.
Thank you for this Video!
When i edit drums, the biggest problem i recogniced is something like "Flams" between Snare, Kick, Ride, Hihat. It really drives me crazy when hits are not played well together when they should be. The only thing i do, is to replace single Hits with better ones, but it takes so much time. Are there other Solutions out there or am i the only one with this problems an bad recordings? 😅
I show how I treat "several hits at once" in the course.
You can for example do a double cut to minimise the gap between the two hits.
If you don't wanna do a double cut always give louder drum / cymbal of the two the perfect timing.
What about this Warm 2mpx though?! 🤔🤔
Testing it hard right now!
@@KohleAudioKultis a review video coming out soon?! 😮
How many milliseconds is too much off?
That depends on the tempo and the tightness you wanna achieve.
You gotta use your ears here!
Three things I missing:
1. when you "fill" the gap there are situations where you cannot. Maybe theres a cymbal and you hear the "wusch-wusch" when its repated. Or there another noise.
Solutions are: time shifting the gap. Or copy somthing from another part of the song.
2. Do you cut different performances? I do. For instance verse from take 5, chorus from take 7, but the break between both from take 3 or so.
3. Hot to copy fucked up hits? For instance a snare hit is to soft. Copy only the snare top track? Or even overheads?
Heyho! Good points! 🤘
Number 2 is covered in the course. Number 3 is not covered because it has nothing to do with the timing.
Concerning Number 1: Of course you can only fill the gap to a certain amount. If there are other drums popping up, that means the drum performance is too bad to be edited to a 100% accurate timing. In that case you have to make compromises. But I’m also showing that in the course.
@@KohleAudioKult Thanks for answer.
A question to to point 2.
Say you have a great performance of a refrain for instance. May it be take 11. Really good, otherwise your wouldn't use it. But in bar 57 is a mistake. How do you look in take 10, take 9 etc. if this bar is played better and fits into perfomance of take 11?
Technically in Cubase.
Unless the playing sounded audibly loose AF, I would just warp the grid to the hits, and preserve the live feel timing.
Das slide-editing ist cool... hat Logic ähnlich aber mal wieder "nur" mit festen Rasterwerten (man möge mich berichtigen , wenn ich es nur nicht anders gefunden habe); bei Drumediting/Programming hat Cubase irgendwie immer die Nase vorn - bzw bekommt es Logic einfach nicht hin, sowas ähnlich effizientes mal nachzubauen... -_-
Bist du sicher?
Ich meinte zu wissen, dass Logic volles Slip Editing hat. Google das doch mal!
So how would you slip edit in pt? What’s the short cut to have it slip underneath?
Y can do it with win + + or - (on the numberpad) to a region or whole group. You just have to set the "nudge" value to a certain value (1-10-100...)
Does anyone know these shortcuts for mac 🖥️
what kind of pc is needed
I think any half decent PC these days can play a few drum tracks.
Mmm I think this can be improved. First you should group and lock the takes, that way you can cut, move, adjust and all of them will move together so I t is impossible to make just one track as accident. Then you can cut your hits from the beginning of the hit and press Q for quantize. Once you have a group of hits ready or the hole song ( I suggest to do it in sections) you can select them all and move the beginning of the hit to the left, so there is space for the crossfade without destroying the attack. Then you can hit x and do the crossfades for the whole group. You will have to inspect that the crossfades are in the correct position but there will be just a few things to check. Doing it this way will save you a lot of time.
You can also detect transient for kick and snare by example and create marks automatically then you can go from them using b and n shortcuts next and back.
Why Linking Park - In The End started playing in my head while watching this video?
Slipping in studio one causes artifacts
and if youre an anxious engineer you hold ctrl and drill that S button. The amount of time, the pressure and the tempo you hit that S button reflect how you suffered as an engeneer 😂
As usual 😞 ableton gets no mention. It's one of the most user friendly and quick daws but no metal guys seem to use it
In the course I'm trying to explain everything as "general" as possible and most of the information works within any major DAW.
Doing a course for every single DAW out there is a little much!
I do use Ableton both for Electro and Metal sound, however I'm not a pro engineer 🙂
I don't edit drums. I just re-record them or punch in.
Man unless you are recording something really simple, beat detective always made things way worse. Technical Death Metal never works with those kind of tools. Cool video dude!
I agree!
Why does everything always have to be beaten onto the grid in metal? It sucks out life of every performance. But I think that's just the way it is these days.
That totally depends on the project.
I also do stuff like this:
th-cam.com/video/pHYFhF0Y-_o/w-d-xo.html
Devil's advocate time here. In all probability the other instruments in the mix were tracked to the drums. By snapping the drums to grid you change the feel of the other instruments as well. What are you going to do? Warp the guitars and bass and mess with that performance as well? I get fixing something that really is a mistake, but the modern metal obsession with drums quantised to look like an Excel spreadsheet has really killed the subtleties that micro timings bring to the table.
Really wonder about this as well. One solution might be to track to programmed tracks or do the rest of the recordings after the drum edit.. but dunno
Drums are the first instrument of a session. I usually edit the drums directly after the recording. Then everybody else plays to the edited drums. Problem solved!
Why should someone record tracks to drums with a bad timing in the first place just to correct the timing later? Makes no sense to me.
@@KohleAudioKult That makes sense, to first edit the drums. Whichever way: I think there lies a stark difference between fixing a hit here or there with obviously bad timing, and editing entire performances down to a grid. A fair amount of drummers you work with don't have bad timing by any stretch of the imagination, and I simply don't see the point in snapping great drummers to grid. If there are electronics or delays involved with specific note values, sure. But for most other cases, what exactly is it about a human performance that you find so incredibly offensive?
I do everything from no editing at all to full editing depending on the project.
It depends on a lot of factors.
95% of all Metal these days is 100% quantized though.
Or you can leave it alone and it will sound human or more organic. This tip is great if you're making electronic music.
It's also great for many genres
@@swagnostic132 the genre doesn't matter. It can be applied to any recorded drum that's ever been recorded on the face of the planet.
i think the deadest problem is drummer didn't hit two shells flat ................ jesus.jpg
I am the only one tired about low guitars tuning ?
But when you move a hit and you do not cut behind it also to seperate it from everything that is happening behind it, you are moving the entire performance behind the hit. So you are moving all the hits behind your edited hit, that might have been in time. That´s a big mess you are creating. I can´t believe you are doing it like this. It´s ruining the whole drum performance and takes for shure a thousand clicks...
You define a region first. It’s all explained in the course!