mobo PCB Breakdown: Gigabyte TRX40 Aorus Pro Wifi // the cheapest TRX40 board
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
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#Threadripper #Aorus #AMD
I'll never buy a board like this but I just like the rambling
lol bru, just come chill & listen to BZ :)
@b1lleman never say never. i "accidentally" won an auction for a $400 X399 board, the Designare EX for $185 (one of those "i'll bid but there's no way i'd win it" things) Jan 2019. didn't know i'd won it until i'd gotten a complaint from ebay that i hadn't paid for it.
@@plonk420 Ha indeed, I'm kinda guilty of such things as well, ordering a GTX TITAN or getting stuff delivered at home which I forgot I ordered. I blame the beer :)
Same, same. If they made one like the evga x299 dark. Meant for OCing and only 4 dimm slots. At a good price. And just watch buildzoid gush about it.
"you'd ultimately have to ask an Oscilloscope" - Buildzoid 2019
-computer- oscilloscope says no
It doesn't make sense to complain that the motherboards are too expensive with a minimum cost of $400 when the cheapest CPU $1400
TheTopTechnology
In the old days, you were able to use cheaper intel chips on single CPU boards, X99 were the Golden days. 5820k or fancy E2699.
$12k chips on $500 pro boards.
My opinion, 3rd gen Threadripper was designed to compete with the higher end 4 and $5ooo.oo cpus. Decent start in general for an affordable alternative. At the terms of expense, you'er right. Debating a few hundred dollars as opposed to a few hundred thousand, makes no sense.
NOW THAT is a deep dive! Well done sir.
Im just amazed by the mouse drawings. I couldn't draw that good with a mouse.
I like it! Thanks for the review.... detailed and interesting, as ever. 👍👍
400 anything ($€£) is not cheap, but it does seem like quite a lot of motherboard for the money.
If only the Threadripper chips weren't so eye-wateringly expensive. 😨😭😭
I'd love to see these chinese board makers jump on making boards for first and second gen threadripper, considering the 1920x is going for $200. Just one without frills, like 1 dim per channel, maximize PCIe lanes that come directly from CPU, and basic stuff like SATA and USB from chipset. Capable of running any first or second gen chip at stock speeds no problem. Something more like a consumer server board.
Here in NL there are 2nd hand boards going for 120 atm, so you could consider something like that: tweakers.net/aanbod/2186872/asrock-x399-taichi.html
I want them to jump on 1st Gen Epyc
i think thats the motherboard im going to buy for my new build, thanks
yup, my switched my plans from the Aorus Master to this. does everything i want it to do, handles my 3960x just fine and has more USB on the back
@@GumpPower im going to buy a 3960X Too, im just waiting to arrive to mexico, hope the motherboard too
It's so weird to me seeing XL ATX coming back on high end TRX40 Gigabyte boards. Haven't seen an XL ATX board that I remember since X79
Thread Ripper has two 32 byte/cycle interconnects per CCD that doubles the available bandwidth between IO Die and CCD. Ryzen 3000 only has a single interconnect that maxes out at 61.8GB/s (32b.cycle x 1900Mhz).
As Games don't really make use of memory bandwidth above about 55GB/s, Unlike Ryzen with the single interconnect, there is significant additional bandwidth available for the GPU that remains unsaturated, unlike Ryzen that sacrifices some memory bandwidth to the CPU when you run a GPU in a game because teh interconnect is close to saturation without the GPU contention accessing the L3 Cache
brad morris
What board/ CPU u use now
Disable Quad channel memory support, disable some cores, is it able to clock stable higher now?
@@lucasrem Quad Channel memory is always an advantage in applications that can make use of it and in high workload environments that can hammer memory such as a VM host. TR is not a product that I would recommend to anyone who is only using a PC for most single user tasks as the costs outweigh any benefits (Video encoding or 3d rendering are exceptions to that statement)
the 9900K shows that to get top framerates, you do not need 100GB/s Memory Bandwidth. a 2080TI doesn't need that much memory data to render the maximum number of FPS. the maximum that It can draw is 16GB/s due to PCIe 3.0 limitations on an x16 link
The Point that the media in general miss is that the single interconnects that Ryzen uses are fully saturated when yourun the memory benchmark tests. Those same interconnects are shared data transport resources that are also used by the GPU to obtain data to process Frames and display them on a monitor.
If a GPU is using 25% of the interconnect pipe accessing the instructions in the L3 Cache, the CPU cannot get the same amount of data from memory that Aida64 shows when the GPU is not obtaining instructions and using up some of the bandwidth.
Ringbus, at x45 provides a max bandwidth of about 144GB/s. Meory bandwidth from teh dual channel memory staye at teh same 50-60GB/s that Aida64 shows in tests regardless of what teh GPU is usingteh ring for as the ring never ends up saturated. the CPUs never end up compromising memory access data rates.
The other Myth you hear is "this game likes CPU Frequency". If that was true then a bulldozer CPU at 5GHZ would be a killer gaming CPU even today. That is not teh case.
Games like Instructions. A CPU with an IPC 200% of another will do the same work at 2.5Ghz that a CPU with low IPC does at 5Ghz. Ryzen has better IPC if it can access all the memory data it needs. In a game because the link is saturated before it even starts running, the AMD CPU has to stall as it waits for eh memory data to catch up. 9900K doesnt have that impediment
the new TR chips have two interconnects per CCH. the 16GB/s GPU load still compromises the interconnects but it is only 10% of 100GB/s instead of 25% of 60GB/s. The excess capacity to deliver memory data well exceeds the requirements for the application/GPU to render the maximum number of frames in most games scenarios so game performance improves
It is only outlyers like Far Cry that does strange things with the scheduler, running critical co-dependent threads on the first and last available core that starts to run into the Cross CCD latency penalty issues. The logic of the game engine was written in the quad core days when Inter CCD/CCX latency was non existant. Adjusting CPU affinity to only used 8 to 12 cores resolves Far Cry like issues all without having to reboot the PC (Process Lasso like apps can manage that automatically for those outlyers)
I do not currently have access to a new TR system, Should have one to play with next week or so. An interesting experiment with the new TR would be to only enable one full CCD and remove 2 memory dims to make it dual channel. Then comparethe gaming results against a 3700x at the same frequency (say 4.2Ghz all core). Processor wise,The only difference is the dual interconnects on TR vs the single interconnect on Ryzen. The TR should win the comparison and likely be close to or beat the 9900K at 5Ghz all core. In most games (far cry aside)
Thanks for the review 👍
I would lose my spare bios chip so fast HA but when I've had boards with socketed bios I've loved being able to just order a new one. I always misplaced it but I always ended up finding it when I eventually bricked the bios from wacked timings
I would be interested in a PCB Breakdown of the ASUS ROG Zenith II Extreme Alpha
Thanks for this, hoping for more reviews of boards where 4 PCIe slots, 4 m.2 drives, 10Gb lan and all the other bells and whistles are not needed. Just a solid vrm and 2 m.2 slots would do. Perhaps Asus strix e-gaming?
Just wondering now what would happen if someone were to intentionally de-solder and remove the backup bios chip. If the motherboard would still boot ok. And if that would end up with a better UX experience overall. Given that the main bios is socketed, you could keep the backup bios chip that you removed (de-soldered) and use it as a kind of a hot spare for swapping into the main bios holder.
Another question is if gigabyte include some sort of physical jumper or bridge resistor that can then electically disable the automatic bios switching feature.
And just taking out the main one?
@@jadoei13 Yeah just removing the main one might be worth it first. Since that costs nothing to try. No harm. However Gigabyte happen to treat the backup bios slightly differently to the main bios. Including when flashing etc. So it's not actually clear whether these sorts of tactic would work the way we hope / expect it to.
Dreamcat 4
Soldering, what board u used?
I don't think you mentioned once that it's also one of the few TRX40 boards that's ATX sized.
Great Review Thanks - I just found the same MoBo and with CPU for $1000 it is worth it in 2024 ? Thanks
Would love your knowledge and expert eyes on the new Mac Pro. What makes it good, what’s overkill (plenty of that I’m sure)
I have a question, these new TRX40 CPUs(3960X / 3970X / 3990X) how much current do each of them draw from the VRM at stock and at OC?
Buildzoid : 720w not coolable
Me : Hold my beer! Got to start dual cascade.
Buildzoid is the real life 'Q' in James Bond 007 movies.
No post code on 400 usd board? Lol
Yea but i think most Workstation Users dont need them.
It's an Aorus "Pro" so I guess it's fine.
@@SuperUltimateLP Hell, not just workstation users, most people in general have no real use for them. It's not like basic PC hardware troubleshooting is all that difficult without one - it's the epitome of one of those features that everyone says "I'd really like to have that, that could be a handy feature" ...just to never even acknowledge the existence of it in the ownership of the board. It's not like overclocking enthusiasts make up even 1% of the buying public for these products.
What would anyone's EXPERIENCED feedback be to someone asking the question...Is this board able to support a stable overclocked Threadripper 3970X 32 Core 64 Thread CPU.....? It has an advertised 12 + 2 Phase Infineon Digital VRM with 70A power stages, as opposed to the 16+3 Phase VRM with 70A stages on the AORUS Master TRX40 Board..... According to some articles more Phases doesn't necessarily mean a better VRM, or a necessary design to achieve a stable overclock.... According to the article advertising more Phases can be more of a marketing tactic, than an actual necessity in achieving stable overclocking....for prolonged periods of time..... Quality was the emphasis, rather than quantities.....
Thanks for another great analysis! So is this board going to be fine for Threadripper 3970x OC'ed to 4.00 - 4.10 Ghz? Still waiting for the review of the TRX40 Taichi. 🙂
I do Deluxe II X99 now, $500 board is what you need when you do this level of I/O
Threadripper or Fancy Xeon CPU update only?
Can't we use some virtual oscilloscope to actually test these double power phases chips? Raspberry oscilloscope?
Hi, i have a ryzen 3970X. what happend if i only plug the 8 pin cpu connector instead the 8+4?, it wont boot?
Question: I'm about this one because its the only available motherboard (and at not inflated prices.. aka the rest are 3X the price) Would this handle up to 32 cores with no issue?
Short answer: Yes.
During your live stream, you kept questioning why is TR 3rd gen RAM latency so bad - the answer is that AMD used 12nm IO die for Ryzen 3rd gen but the IO die used in Epyc and TR is 14nm.
They said that using 12nm for the IO die gave them better latency and that it was worth it for Ryzen cause games really like low latency and Ryzen is a gaming CPU. But Epyc is meant for servers, where you really don´t care much about latency.
So they decided to save money and manufacture the IO die for Epyc on 14nm (remember that the IO die is really huge, so yield is really important and 14nm is not only cheaper than 12nm but also has probably better yield).
TR 3rd gen IO die is manufactured on the same node as first-gen Ryzen, which had RAM latency of around 70ns.
I'm pretty sure that the manufacturing process has very little to do with the difference in latency you are talking about. Especially with such a small difference between the two nodes (14nm vs 12nm). If what you were proposing were true, then Intel's latest 14nm desktop CPUs should also have bad memory latency when in fact they have pretty much the best latency.
@@bgtubber Well Intel 14nm is completely different technology, so that comparison is a bit of. Plus Intel has way better memory controller in general.
Well if you look at Ryzen 1xxx the latencies are around 70ns, usually a bit higher.
While Ryzen 2xxx is around 65ns I think. So let's say that's 6-7ns difference.
And the only difference between these is manufacturing node (14nm vs 12nm) and a slightly tweaked memory controller in the second gen.
A 1 or 2ns improvement might be from the minor improvements in the memory controller, but the 4-5ns are a gain from better node - I imagine that with 12nm they were able to drop down some internal timings of the memory controller which resulted in better latency.
Even if you ignore this technical background, the question is why would AMD use a more expensive 12nm IO die in the desktop, if there would be no advantages from using it?
They would not. So there has to be some advantage, and it is probably better memory latency.
@@dominikliberda4017 The better memory latency in the small Ryzens almost certainly comes from the much lower complexity of their IO die. After all, it has only half of the logic the mammoth IO die that Threadripper and Epyc use. The latter need to have everything that the small Ryzen IO die has multiplied by 2 - more channels, more infinity fabric links, more PCI-E, more cache etc. etc...
@@bgtubber But how do you explain the latency difference between Ryzen 1st and 2nd gen? They have exactly the same number of channels, but their latency differs quite a lot. I believe the better node caused the latency improvement.
Higher complexity IO die will play a role in it too, but it is impossible to know how much of the difference is caused by it - there's no info about the IO die.
oh wow 45 min
That's a pcie x1 connected to the wifi module up there at the IO right? That's pretty interesting. Does other boards have this connection method as well? Can you plug in other pcie devices :P?
it's not a 1x slot I don't remember the name of the connector but that is the usual way wifi is connected to mobos.
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking compared to the x1 at the bottom of the board I can see that it is a bit different. I've just never seen that connector before.
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking It's a M.2 E-Key and some boards have it, even if they don't have onboard wifi (probably those that come in wifi and non-wifi versions). I basically upgraded my MSI x470 GPC to the A/C version with an Intel BT/wifi card.
hey buildzoid, thanks you for the video! this will be my new mobo, handles the 3960x with 3600mhz cl16 just fine, has more usb on the back than the Aorus Master and is much cheaper. you recon i can get away with only the 8 pin on a 3960x with just PBO enabled, no manual OC?
It really depend on your PSU cable quality. And you should go for 8+4 just to be safe.
Is that a Thunderbolt header below the sata connectors?
"USB 3.2", just a USB type-C port. It includes "USB 3.2 type-C front and rear" as they say
So far, I haven't heard of anyone else implementing Thunderbolt on AMD platforms except for ASRock, they've really set themselves apart with this.
@@RyTrapp0 Gigabyte TRX40 Designare has an add in Thunderbolt card(included). I'm just not sure of their other TRX40 motherboards.
@@tomski2671 Yup, I gotcha, I was just referring to built in TB rather than add-ins, I believe ASRock is still the only one with TB integrated. I may be wrong though, I haven't followed the TRX40 boards too closely(the CPUs have been ever so slightly more interesting LOL)
@Southeastern777 Nope, you're still sane(presumably) - that's what it's labeled, and, in spite of that somewhat presumptive label, that's just a USB Type-C header; same exact header that we're talking about on this board, just in a different location.
[THIS IS PURE SPECULATION ON MY PART, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T QUOTE ME] - I think that it's labeled "THB_C" because it's the used for both applications, for either "THB" or 'Thunderbolt', or for "C" or the 'USB Type-C' interface. Essentially a single name for both uses in spite of the hardware under the hood differing. But, in this case, there's no Thunderbolt to be found under the hood, only "USB 3.2 Gen 1 Type-C"
OK, after staring at Gigabytes various TRX40 motherboard manuals, this garbage is about as clear as mud.
I kept questioning myself on this since the 'key-A' 20 pin female connector has been the standard internal header for USB Type-C front panel connectors - and the Designare has one of these.
But, like the other TRX40 boards, it also has the "THB_C" header - and, if you go by the description in ALL of their TRX40 manuals, they describe it as a "USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type-C" header - even though it isn't the traditional 20 pin 'key-A' header.
...sooo, does that mean that these are actually Thunderbolt headers? Well... I don't think so...? I mean, I would sure as hell be letting the world know that my 3rd gen Threadripper boards had Thunderbolt headers if that were the case - in fact, considering the target market for these, it would actually be quite outrageous if they integrated TB, but at no point in their literature acknowledged it(talk about shooting yourself in the foot when ASRock has garnered a LOT of attention for being the first to integrate TB on modern AMD boards). So that doesn't sound all that plausible to me.
Maybe it's the "3.2 Gen 2" part that is notable; maybe the 'key-A' isn't supported beyond USB 3.1; maybe the TB header has been adopted for USB 3.2 Type-C? I'm sure the answer to this can be found, but this has already been enough of a mind fuck for one night, lol.
Now, on the Designare specifically, among the listed ports/connectors/headers in the manual is what they're calling a "GIGABYTE GC-TITAN RIDGE Add-in Card Connector" - this is of course for the aforementioned Thunderbolt add-in card for this board, with "Titan Ridge" being Intel's name for the Thunderbolt 3 controller found on said card.
But, here's the thing - that connector label is only listed in the 'product specs' chart in the 'internal connectors' section. Along with the "1x USB Type-C header with USB 3.2 Gen 2 support".
...but, then we get to page 34, a slight bit of clarity - maybe? On page 34(this is where they're describing each connector in its own section, '18' being the number given to the THB_C header) we finally get to #18, which is titled "THB_C (GIGABYTE GC-TITAN... etc.)" - OK, so the "THB_C" header AND the "USB Type-C 3.2 Gen 2" header are one in the same. But, wait, it gets more interesting - here is the description they list for this header...
"This connector is for a GIGABYTE GC-TITAN RIDGE add-in card which two USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type-C™ ports are able to daisy-chain as a total up to 6 devices and 5V/3A quick power charge support."
...OK, so, if I'm understanding this correctly, I THINK that there's a logical reason for this convoluted labeling of this god forsaken header - I THINK that what Gigabyte is doing is making this a x2 USB Type-C 3.2 G2 header that can be broken out into USB Type-C connectors via a USB add-in card that lives in one of the expansion slots on the case. *HOWEVER* - IF you buy Gigabyte's "GC-TITAN RIDGE" add-in card, this header can also be used to add Thunderbolt 3 to the board.
But, I absolutely very well may be positively wrong about that - because this isn't clear AT. ALL.
That's too bad...my 7700k Aorus has a post code
do u have a broking 1060 i can get the part from u and pay u insted
What is bare minimum motherboard for 3600 so I can overclock it to 3600X frequencies?
Probably the B450 Tomahawk
@@DenGuleBalje that's a good board already. Realistically, even a 4 phase would do it. I recommend the tomahawk thogh, it's a really solid board.
@@theunholybakery1990 I never skimp too much on the motherboard. "Bare minimum motherboards" just never pay off and you'll just end up feeling restricted and frustrated.
@@DenGuleBalje and that's exactly the reason why I bought my x570 godlike. I got a 3700x, but plan on upgrading to next year's flagship. For the sole purpose of ocing a 3600, a cheap b450 can be used. Though, i wouldn't reccomend it.
@@theunholybakery1990 Also, PCIe 4.0..
on gigabyte boards you can not disable wlan and bt in the bios. if that is a feature you want, then don't buy gigabyte.
Can't you just unscrew the antenna?
@@givemeajackson that does not disable the wlan module, it will still do wlan things and try to connect ect
only solution would be to disable it in the windows device manager.
you can just unplug it from the board
I recently built a z390 system, (Aorus Pro wifi), and found that out, that there was no obvious way to disable the wireless chip in the bios; however, if you enable the ethernet lan chip in the bios, and then plug an ethernet jack into the ethernet port, the wireless lan is automatically disabled. I'm not sure about the Bluetooth though, I never looked into that.
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking yes that would be possible, but not everyone wants to disassemble their entire board, the vrm heat sink, back plate etc when a bios option is all you would need in that case.
Can it run 2 Waifu GPU's ?
I need a board that can run 2 Waifu?