How Fast Can The Cadillac Lyriq Charge On A Road Trip?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
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My first Lyriq DC fast charging video: • How Fast Does The Cadi...
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:58 How I collected the data and how I'm analyzing it
05:07 The two charging session recordings side by side
07:03 The Lyriq's charging curve graph analysis
08:55 The time to charge graph analysis
10:30 Why these recordings are useful for road trips
11:56 How many miles of range are added per minute for each 20-minute interval
13:04 Summary
13:50 Outro
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Thank you. I too did an early LYRIQ charging curve video. It found similar results as your two. I have received the update and have been meaning to go back and do a new video to see if any improvements are able to be seen. I have been busy and have not found the time to do so, but will pop a comment in this vid when I am able to. Thx for the video. I enjoyed watching. The LYRIQ is a great EV. My wife and I love it to death. I can say unequivocally it is the nicest car I have ever owned.
Very timely video for me: I just returned from a short road trip with my Lyriq and I actually did see improvement in the charging curve and was pretty pleased with it. I arrived at a 350kw EA station in Austin, TX with around 13% capacity and while it went up to 176kw for only a short time, it took quite a while to reduce below 100kw and I was out of there faster than I expected. The battery did pre-condition and weather was not terribly hot or cold.
My dad has a lyric. I wanted to take it on a recent road trip because it’s so quiet and relaxing on highway. But I was afraid charging will be hell, so I ended taking my Rivian instead. Hopefully the lyric charging curve will improve, so I can borrow it for the next road trip.
Great, I'll have to retest one.
Just finished a nearly 1,000 mile road trip in the Blazer EV and I have to say this issue *seems* to persist in the Blazer EV as well. I won't spoil my video but I saw a very similar charging curve with a lower minimum speed after just 12-13 minutes. 😶
Looking fwd to the day where we can do 10-90% in 20min. Right now doing a true road trip (+400miles) takes quite some planning.
There is an argument brewing on the Lyriq forums that Charging at a 150 kW Station might actually be faster than at a 350 kW station as those that do charge at 150 don't seem to see that drastic decline in speed near the middle of their session. We are currently getting mixed results with some saying they see improvement while others don't. This could be a thermal issue... May see better curves as the days get colder.
Honestly this isn’t super different in other EVs. We have a Lucid and it also slows down like crazy. I think State of Charge did a Lucid test and 350 only gave you 5 mins total advantage over 150 kw.
I was wondering this looking at the drop looks like it's a time or heat based drop.
By using a 150 kW charger the battery probably does not heat up as fast as with the 350 kw charger where the charge power is much higher initially. Other cars have shown brief periods of low power charging to let the battery cool off a bit as well. Suprised Caddy Techs didn't see this and smooth out the charging curve as they should have kown testers would call them on this behavior.
I did notice in a 150kw charger there isn’t much difference to a 350kw charger
I had the same experience. It jumped between 98kw and 120kw. Lowest it drop was 82kw at an EE station. It's a 2024 AWD less than a week old if that makes any difference.
Great information. My wife just got her Lyriq two weeks ago. So far it gets around 280 miles on a 80% charge to around 20% discharge. She not used a fast charger yet, she just uses the 240v charger Qmerit installed and by the time she gets home and plugs in and leave the next morning it is back to 80% we’re she has it set at max charge
I own a Lyriq and recently went on my first road trip. I found the 150kW stations much more reliable than the 350kW stations. I almost always got a good curve on the 150s while the one successful 350kW charge put my car in “turtle” mode after about 10 minutes and the charging rate dropped. I suspect some thermal issues with 350kW charging. 150 seems to be a better choice for the Lyriq at the moment.
I'm glad Read your post. I was suspecting that. Would you buy your lyric again?
You have to think that they did that to ramp up their miles in 10 minutes number.
@@KyleD237Definitely, yes. I’ve had my Lyriq for almost one year and I still love it. It definitely suffers from some early production issues, but it’s been a really great car for me. I’ve taken it on 2 road trips and haven’t had any major issues charging on the car side. The charging network is another story though…
What is the car pulling in at a 150 kw charger? My new Lyriq isn't going over 72 kwh at any fast charger.
@@sarbvirk1It depends a lot on the charger. Have you tried different units? I’ve hit 150 on a 150kW charger. At higher states of charge it tapers off though.
5:07 The power delivery issues you're seeing most definitely were addressed by the OTA update. I'm not sure which viewers told you they didn't see a difference, but I've heard from several Cadillac LYRIQ owners who said that they have. You might need to rerun this test with an updated LYRIQ.
Interesting. I specifically asked two Lyriq owners who follow me and they didn't notice a difference. I'll have to get another Lyriq to rent because the owner of the one I was renting moved out of state last month.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Yes. As you noted, very few people scrutinize the charging profiles the way you do, so the average LYRIQ owner might not notice. Hopefully, you can get another LYRIQ soon. We know what it should be doing on paper, and those dips in power aren't it.
Looking forward to your next video on this. Thanks, Tom!
That is probably it. I need to get one from someone that lives lost to me. Maybe a follower?
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney maybe the dealership would let you test drive it 🤔
I am glad to see this. One of the vehicles my dad is looking at. Thanks Tom!
The charging is kind of embarrassing for GM IMO.
If you see this Tom can you mention how the seat would feel for a heavier guy. In his current vehicle the seat seems way to narrow. He does not do road trips so the charging is no big deal.
Are you implying Tom is a heavier guy? 😮
No, just my dad :-) @@Wasabi9111
Thanks very much Tom, I love all your videos. I purchased a Lyriq less than a month ago and have found your videos so informative. I am leaving on a road trip from Western Canada to California in two weeks so really looking forward to your updates on the Lyriq!
Please let me know how it goes!
4:20 The difference between 150 kW and 350 kW DCFC for the LYRIQ is the current not kW. The LYRIQ can pull 500 A (and over 350 A for a significant percentage of its charging profile), and working 350 kW chargers can provide the full 500 A while 150 kW chargers typically provide a maximum of 350 A. That means that the peak charging speed for the LYRIQ on a 150 kW charger is a little less than 135 kW, and a 30-minute session on a 350 kW charger would be over 42 minutes on a 150 kW charger.
Always good content. Thumbs up.
A great video. My only criticism is when you say it's not a terrible charge time. Really, you are being too kind. We know it's terrible. When people curious about EVs ask me how far it will go, my usual smart aleck answer is to say; "further than my bladder will go." When I'm serious, I give them the miles but I say that is the wrong question. The charging curve--or at least the 10% to 80% number--is more important.
I would like see the charging curve at a Tesla Supercharger with the Magic Dock
My wife drove her 2021 Taycan to California and back to Phoenix. She had multiple issues with the Electrify America chargers. She finally took her car into the Palm Springs Porsche dealer. The dealership also had . She took the vehicle into the dealer to see if they can fix the problems getting the vehicle charged. We will see what they have to say.
This makes me not want to buy a GM EV until they solve this charging issue.
If fast charge is a must-have, that might be reasonable.
Personally I almost never need to charge more than once on a trip, so it’s not really an issue to me - losing a few minutes occasionally isn’t that big of an issue to me.
@@FuncleChuck Good point. However, my main concern would be a design flaw in Ulitum design that might be hurting the longevity of the battery and other charging components .
It’s not a charging issue. It’s a software issue they created to “maintain battery warranty “
That's why I picked Kia EV 6. I never spent more than 15 min on a EA charger between the trips. It gets charges so quick.
Mr. Moloughney, I completed an updated SoC LYRIQ vid and posted to my channel. Since the GM N23-241765, my data reflect the prob with dips into the single digits is gone. I look forward to seeing if your testing shows anything different or similar results.
here is my charging data (first value is kW / second is SoC) if helpful:
16
183 18
186 21
182 23
175 26
171 28
166 31
163 33
160 36
156 38
152 40
152 42
152 44
150 46
149 49
146 51
143 53
139 55
115 57
98 58
86 60
78 61
73 62
71 63
71 64
71 66
73 67
76 68
80 69
85 70
89 72
93 73
95 74
96 76
97 77
Just goes to show that these EV’s have a ways to go on fast charging.
Good thing is OTA...
Drag induced power loss scales with the cube of the velocity. So you are correct that it goes up a bunch with speed on any vehicle including ICE.
Stick your hand out the window @ 80 mph and you will see what the car is up against.
48 minutes from 10-80% is only a little bit better than what the Bolt manages to charge the same percentage (the 64/65kwh Bolts do that in about 1hr)
This seems relatively in-line with the charging performance of the Hummer (which also uses Ultium batteries, just more). Seems like GM has taken the Tesla approach to charging with big headline numbers that it can only maintain for a few minutes. That’s really unfortunate, especially given that Hyundai/Kia is wiping the floors with them in a vehicle that can be purchased for substantially less.
Don't foget the Bolt draws about half the energy as the Lyriq for the same time at the charger.
Thank you, Tom!
Looking at the charge curves I'm hypothesizing that the big dip is caused by thermal inertia. After the cooling system catches up it appears the charge rate somewhat recovers. It seems to me that the charging algorithm pushes more energy than the cooling system can dissipate and the thermal inertia isn't properly anticipated. So they might be able to smooth out the curve by reducing the charge rate sooner to give a bit more consistent experience.
Do you think GM can correct the charging issues on the 2023 or will it be fixed only on newer models?
Did you do battery preconditioning before charging?
Best engineering practices in thermal and charging management call for a PID (proportional-integral-derivative) closed-loop control system. Considerable tuning is required to avoid the oscillations Tom is experiencing. Most industrial controls engineers know how to fix it, so I have confidence Lyriq engineers will get this problem solved.
Doesn't the EV6 do something similar? Something about lithium plating, or just cooling the battery? It would be helpful to see the pack and cell temps while charging.
All dcfc stations should have signage to encourage users to stop at 80%, especially if other are waiting. My wife went on a road trip this weekend and owners of a mach-e and volvo bogarted the station by charging to 100%. This needs to strongly be discouraged. This was on an EVGo station.
I suspect those people are probably still on the free charging ...
Also we need way more plugs
that drop is insanity.... do you have any tools to see battery temperature? that is the only thing I can think is that the BMS is seeing the battery too hot from the first burst....
Do you have any plans on testing the Blazer EV?
Even before watching this video.... this feels like it going to be painful to road trip - unless they changed the charging curve
State, hiya!. yeah~you shared super ,till next time~👐
I have a 2024 Lyriq, mine definitely charges better than this review. I use the fast charge prep and get much better charge rates and times.
My reservation for a Lyriq has finally turned into an opportunity to order a Lyriq. But since North America is going to NACS, I don't want to order a 2024 since GM won't put that onto the cars until 2025. I have a Tesla charger installed in the house and having to use an adapter every time I have to charge the car in a non Tesla environment seems cheesy to me (it is a $100K car in Canada). The dealer says that it is too late to make the change for 2024. This is ridiculous: the car is months from being manufactured and HOW many of them are going to be built? Just bite the bullet and toss the soon to be obsolete charge ports. Sure, they would lose some money, but it is a premium car that they are trying to get people to buy. I had 11 happy years with a Volt and did not like my 2023 M3 so I sold it. I like the Lyriq - it doesn't look like a pile of playdoh, but I don't want to feel like I've made another mistake every time I plug it in when travelling.
Exactly my thinking. I cancelled my reservation because of the NACS switchover. They should be doing this much more quickly than they are. I really think that not having the NACS connection will have a significant impact on resale value.
sounds like thermal control is putting breaks on all the way to 25kw from 180kw to protect battery from overheating
All of these curves on all the different EVs make figuring out how much it costs to travel complicated when the charger is priced by time instead of power consumed.
If you are getting 30kw on an Electrify Canada charger that is charging 57 cents a minute and getting 5.5km per kwh that's getting 0.5kwh per minute, or $1.14 per kwh, to go 5.5km or 20.9 cents a kilometer.
If you can pull 180kw on the same charger you get 3kwh per minute or 19 cents a kwh, or 3.45 cents per km...
That's a pretty huge spread.
Whats thr drop in miles on lyriq with 22in?
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Sounds like the Thermal management has major issues on the Ultium battery. Looks like after a certain period of time the battery has to cool for a period of time before power accepted rate goes back up.
Probably there thermo battery management system. That's alot of power and it must get hot
Tom, any plans to test a Tesla 3 or Y at 70 Vs 80 mph? I live in South Florida and once you get out of the cities, most of the speed limits are 70 and most people are running closer to 80 mph.
I don't think anyone looks at their speedometer in FL. The enforcement is so random people just go as fast as they can.
Since the last update didn't get chance to try DC fast charging but car in and out at shop 3 times. Going back in tomorrow again. Little red car sign come on and app says lithium battery need service. Started GM buyback already. Trouble free 3000 miles before update ruined the perfect car. I guess they pushed the limit little too much too soon.
.
I wonder how the car would charge on a Tesla charger station with the super dock.
There is no reason to expect the result to be different, the charger isn't the limit it's the car.
My Audi Q8 will charge 20-80% in 28 minutes and pulled 67 kW.
Which EV is the quickest charging from 10-80%?
How is your Rivian?
Depending on the day/weather/functional 350kw charger; currently I would guess it would be a Lucid Air or Taycan/GT E-tron.
My prior ionic five was pretty fast. My Rivian isn’t so bad considering the battery size. But I do get envious when the other ioniqs are usually done charging in less than 20 minutes while I am still there charging…
Taycan and our EV6 are up there
Hmm Taycan and EGMP cars are close ~20 min, but I think the EGMP cars will win in most conditions. Taycan has a bigger battery and more range though of the two. Keep in mind a better metric is probably the miles added in a given time which brings the Lucid back in with bigger batteries and good efficiency (even the smallest Air battery is bigger than the largest Ioniq 5 battery a good margin).
Kia / Hyundai
My Kia EV6 charges very quick.
Very interesting video, but again, I don't understand why a seasoned EV driver is still pushing for the 80% charge : 10 to 80% or 20 to 80%.
This is wrong IMO, because the EVs have different battery capacities and different efficiencies, which aren't taken in consideration when Tom & co complain about the time to get to the 80% SOC. In this example, the Lyriq, charging from 10 to 80% = 70% battery added, which equals to about 70 kWh. Based on the efficiency test made by Tom, this means the Lyriq could drive @70 mph : 70 kWh x 3.15 mi/kWh = 221 miles. In the same conditions, a Ioniq 5 who has a battery of about 77 kWh would drive @ 70 mph : 53,9 kWh x 3.2 mi/kWh = 172 miles. That's 50 miles less than the Lyriq EV. Yes, there is a difference of about 30 mins (18 mins vs 48 mins) between the two in charging from 10 to 80%, but this difference is already deleted by the 43 minutes more of driving time to cover the 50 miles @ 70 mph by the Ioniq 5 vs the Lyric.
And as all EV owners know and do, when driving long trips in an EV, we charge enough to get to the next destination charger. No one charges to 80% on a DCFC (when the price /kWh is the highest) when all it needs is 60% SOC to get to the next destination.
So I would suggest to Tom & all the people who are presenting videos about "How fast a XXXXX can charge on a trip" to stop relating to the 80% and give meaningful information like : how much time you need to charge to drive 100 miles, 120 miles, 150 miles, 200 miles. And then compare these times between different brands of EV.
Good points but you may want to adjust your numbers using 70% of the battery for the ioniq 5 instead of 60% as you did.
Also, 3.2mi/kwh is for dual motors on the Ioniq 5 and not rwd like the lyric
@@JadSinno I realized the error and readjusted for the 70% SOC in the Ioniq 5 case. Thank you !
@@JadSinno In the case of the RWD, the efficiency is about 3.5 mi/kWh @ 70 mph. This would bring the distance covered on 70% battery to 189 miles. Which is again, 30 miles less than the Lyriq. Which @ 70 mph needs 25 minutes to cover the distance between the two, which makes the Lyric and Ioniq 5 RWD almost at the same level of user experience in driving time (5 mins difference, although the Lyric will cover more distance in the first leg of the trip).
But again, I didn't want to make this an EV vs EV case, mine is better than yours, I wanted to express that the 10 to 80% time comparison is meaningless in the real world EV long tripping.
@@voldar70that's exactly what I wanted to get to as well. You are one of the few out there who put thought behind numbers. Now that the 2 cars perform the same in the real world even though battery capacity, charging speed and range are drastically different, we can all see how more than 90% of people are looking at the wrong metrics to determine what's better for them. For long distance travels, average miles added per amount of charge time (typically 20 minutes) as the main metric that means much. The other big metric is efficiency drop between 70 and 80mph. If confirmed, the 35% range drop on the lyriq is terrible compared to about 20-25% drop on other vehicles like the Ioniq 5 for example.
A spread sheet with the various "drive miles" would be a nice addition to the already presented graphs.
So weird, is it from thermal throttling?
I don't think so. I think it's literally programmed in.
if it was preprogrammed, it would drop at the exact the same soc %, wouldn’t it? Or do you think they programmed it to accept the maximum power for 10 mins and then cut it? Why cut so abruptly though? Looks more like a throttling
I am so curious why people keep using the singular "kilowatt" when they're talking about hundreds of them.
If it is a rate , like a 350 KW charger, it is singular. If it is how many were put into the battery, like “it took 78 KW’s it is plural.
It is too bad that GM is still so risk adverse with charging rates because of the Bolt fires and subsequent battery recalls. The actual number of fires was incredibly low (only something like 16 - far far below gas vehicles) but was a PR disaster that they probably feel they absolutely can’t risk repeating.
Supposedly, the new Ultium cells have improved testing (cell, module and pack level) as well as better battery management software, so the risk of overheating when charging due is far less than the gen 1 Bolt system.
I think that GM will remain conservative with its charging until it has more real world experience with the Lyriq and other models.
Fortunately, with Tesla opening its Supercharger network next spring, road-trip charging won’t be such a time wasting proposition.
I suspect the problem isn't software it's the cooling system. The sudden drops in the charge rate must be due to the battery temperature hitting a critical number. Software changes aren't going to make it much better.
@@joshuarosen465 With repeated charging sessions on the road and more datapoints from GM they can adjust that temp in software and let it ride the curve longer.
Only 1/3 of Tesla chargers will
Open to non Tesla.
@@Dive-Bar-Casanova 2/3. 13000 out of 18000. Tesla tends to upgrade sites over time by adding V3s so it's likely that most V2 Supercharger locations will also have V3 by the time NACS ported GM cars are available.
The Bolt battery issue is known. it was an improper bend of a piece of metal inside the battery.
Seems like they are overheating and have a poor battery management system in the car.
I supercharged my 2020 Model 3 with 100k miles yesterday from 1% to over 90% in 43 minutes
I don’t understand why someone would want to wait 30+ minutes for the car to “refuel” on a road trip. For the price of the Lyriq the charging curve should be much better. Good video, lossy message.
Simple, most people stop every few hours anyway.
The average road trip in ANY vehicle consists of;
Leave early (5 to 7am) drive 3 hours time for a bathroom/coffee break, drive 2 to 3 more hours lunch time, drive 2 to 3 more hours bathroom break, drive 2 to 3 more hours dinnertime, either stop for the night or drive another 2 to 3 hours then stop for the night.
Under this schedule their is plenty time for charging and likely only adds MAYBE an extra 30 minutes to your daily schedule.
Poor thermal management I guess? Either way, I guess it's more of GM and Mary Bara leading, and it matters.
Off topic: Equinox, Silverado EV and GMC EV truck volume production delayed. More evidence of Ultium shitshow.
Knowing how senior citizens can be very impatient, I can't see someone sitting for 40 minutes for a charge in their "Caddy." Unless they're like Uncle Joe and taking a nappy nap.
Ultium is currently a shitshow with respect to manufacturing throughout and DCFC performance.
ALL vehicles, ICE or EV, lose range the faster you go. Charging speeds and curve for the Lyric? That's on GM.
I'm looking for 10-80% in 6 minutes. That and a 390 mile range battery would make a vehicle equivalent to gas in travel time on the frequent long trip I take.
I'd time yourself at Gas Stations I bet you are there longer than 6 minutes. Also not all pumps are made the same either.... some dispense gas very slow.
@@Nebula1701apparently some people don't need to rest, stretch, pee, drink or eat for longer than 10 hours straight.
@@Nebula1701 So maybe 12 minutes if my wife is with me and we both take bio breaks. The point being is that we don't HAVE to stop more than once on a 566 mile journey now, and when we do we pick one that is convenient (and has clean restrooms), quickly refill, and then go grab lunch someplace else.
With today's cells you are stopping multiple times, and are stuck to whatever choice is near the charger while you wait. Making long trips longer is unacceptable. It has to be as good as, if not better than what we currently have for me to change. I think cells like Amprius has will make that change possible.
LG batteries? And lousy GM BMS?
Don’t buy GM products until they get ass out of their butts on charging software
No ev period
It’s ugly.