as i am a retired broadcast engineer i have long felt television is not living up to its promise/use as an educational tool. the two of you have restored my faith in this concept, THANK YOU! add to this the fact that you both are natural teachers (my mother was one and you both remind me of her "style"". Please keep up the great work!!!
TH-cam is actually the last bastion of knowledge transfer these days. The public school system has failed. Granted TH-cam also censors a great deal of content which doesn't conform to the new woke orthodoxy, so it's a double edged sword.
I regularly mention in sailing communities that it's absurd to have an offshore boat that could potentially sink from rudder damage. A watertight bulkhead between the rudder and the rest of the boat is a critical design feature necessary for any boat to be considered blue water, IMO. Glad you're talking about this in detail.
@@TedKiddAbout 3 boats have sunk from orca attacks around Spain. All of them sunk because of this stupid issue, missing bulkhead fwd of the rudder. Several others have been near by sinking, again from the same thing.
I’ve also ranted about it innumerable times through decades. It astounds me that the builders don’t just do this right! It’s even very cheap. Must be some sort of immunity to brains and reason that is widespread among boat builders.
Mine is a 1978 Vaitses/Herreshoff Meadowlark. The bulkhead that separates the cabin from the cockpit is watertight, creating two large compartments. I've not done the math to see if the boat would float with either one flooded.
My gosh, what Info But you forgot one thing. And now I can't remember it.😂 I've never came across such Thoroughness. Thank you so much. For showing us how And bringing us along. Long time watcher and Listener. Take care and god bless.❤❤❤
Canada here. Well said brother. That wasn't a rant. That was a lesson in " Buyer Beware ". And how to stay alive. Retired renovation carpenter. Love the both of you . And your work.
I have an aluminum 28 ft sailboat which i bought several years ago. It is aged 56 years now and over some years I reinforced it with additional stringers and bulkheads. So now it has 6 watertight bulkheads which are placed corresponding to your ideas of fortifying a boat against water ingress. Even the skeg itself was enlarged and reinforced, because I don't sail regattas anymore but like singlehanded long distance sailing, where rudder agility is counterproductive. I hope that these modifications will be helpful in high latitude sailing which is on my bucket list for the next years. Fair winds to all of you sailing guys out there.
Professional commercial mariner here, US tanker fleet for almost 20 years, life-long regatta kid and now cruiser, AND armchair-wannabe-naval architect (since I was a kid as well). THE BEST AND CONCISE AND EASY TO UNDERSTAND explanation (with visual aids!!!) of some really core, but overlooked, principles of naval arch. Nobody gets away from the engineering triangle, “High Quality, Fast Production, Low Expense…chose 2”. But you guys, your work, and your sharing is amazing! Long time subscriber and enjoy your work, helps inspire me on my boat jobs at home. Good luck as the refit continues!!!
That's a myth. If your engineering design targets function, not profit. Then quality, speed, and price all help each other. You are repeating a slogan from managers and salesmen. Not engineers.
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017Economics as you refer to it, has nothing to do with physical reality. It is a cultural construct. The highest quality design for a purpose is the simplest. The best materials to use are the quickest and cheapest to make it from. That is the physical reality of the world we live in. That the best materials last for ever, and complicated design, crappy fabrication and materials that won't last can be sold by scamsters at higher profits, that is this sick culture masquerading as a science, called economics you refer to.
Our 1977 Rival 38 centre cockpit ketch didn't have any watertight bulkheads. As part of our big refit we have created multiple watertight compartments within the forecabin (plus entry to it that's above the waterline, will have a bolt close watertight door to use at sea). We are creating watertight compartments under the aft cabin bunk for rudder post (will leak a bit around the solid steering connection). Also a coffer dam around our 3 seacocks (2 cockpit drains 1 inlet for watermaker, deck wash etc) and propeller shaft (will leak a bit around the aquadrive).
As a 50 yr young American / Italian, I absolutely adore the both of you. I’m happy you’re back working on your sailboat and look forward to your continued adventures across the oceans. I’ve always loved the way you show other cultures and share your experiences and tell your stories. Such talented young couple! So much respect and admiration 🙏🏼❤️🙏🏼
Dan, you did one excellent presentation on why water tight bulk heads are critical to be in any blue water boat! I think what you and Kika are doing is fantastic and you will have a super safe nice yacht when you are all done. It wasn’t a rant, rather an excellent , simplified explanation of the facts. Very well done! 😊🧐🧐⛵️
You make excellent points in this video. I would like to add some input based on many years of offshore sailboat racing. Spade rudders can increase the capability of not sinking the boat by doing a couple of things and these are: 1) Use an internal rudder tube that is very strong and that goes between the inner hull and the cockpit deck. The rudder shaft rides on bearings in this tube; 2) Have the rudder shaft engineered so it is the weak link in the steering system so that if the boat hits something big enough to tear the rudder off, the shaft snaps and you lose the rudder, but not the boat; 3) Carry a spare rudder if you are going offshore. It doesn't take up as much space as you think and if you do lose a rudder (shaft being weak link), you can replace the rudder at sea; and 4) absolutely have a watertight bulkhead between the rudder shaft and the balance of the boat and try to make this watertight compartment as small as possible, even to the point of having a bulkhead before and after the rudder shaft. Another point is bilge pumps. Pretty much all, and I repeat all, bilge pumps installed in commercially manufactured sailboats are there only to remove nuisance water that may accumulate in the bilge. They typically have flow rates of less than 100 GPH (usually less than 50 GPH) and can be overwhelmed by losing a 1" diameter penetration point in the below waterline area. If you are serious about going offshore, look into getting a bilge pump, or bilge pumps, capable of 750 GPH to 1,000 GPH. These may not save the boat in a truly catastrophic incident, but may save the boat in a situation where you lose a hose or fitting on a hull penetration and need time to plug the water entry point. There are commercially available marine grade bilge pumps in this size range and they are not that expensive when compared to looking at total boat loss or having to abandon the boat in a deepwater situation.
Having a means of shutting engine cooling inlet, detaching the hose and lowering it to the bilges is a good way of getting the engine water pump to pump out the bilges in a crisis is a good cheap fix
I have thing to add. Remember to make baffles perpendicular to the bulkhead. The purpose is to avoid or limit the Free Flow Water effect, which makes a boat less stable.Remember that the baffles must a lot higher than above the waterline. The reason is that the boat can be heeling because of a wind force on the sails - or - because of water ingress from a hole in the hull.
These are excellent points. What about a keel hung rudder? Or, a cylindrical tube as a bulkhead around the shaft? You can find serious filament wound fiberglass pipe for injection wells (oil and gas) rated for 3,000psi normal operating pressure with a safety factor near 10ksi... Just saying, there are some serious materials out there that can be readily bonded in place.
@ronlukwe4875 Great points... but I assume those flow ratings you list for bilge pumps are meant to be GPH, not GPM? 1000 GPM (60,000 GPH) is a massive flow that many fire trucks are not capable of pumping at that rate...
@@jchase5408 Good catch!! I have changed the original post to GPH. I have been a project manager on many refinery projects and tend to always think in GPM. BTW, the main crude charge feed pumps in a refinery will be 2 or more pumps rated at 5,000 to 10,000 GPM depending on the refinery throughput. The motors are huge and often require their own 5kv feed.
I never would have understood what you were talking about when you were talking about your bulkheads and sectioning off the boat with them until you went over that in this video. At the end of the video I said to myself, it all makes sense to me what they are doing and why. Thank you for using the other boats to explain it, because it now makes me think twice about sailboats and how they are built.
Tusen takk DK for this tip regarding watertight bulkheads. Beneteau Oceanis 500(1988). No watertight bulkheads in this boat. There is a bulkhead in front of the rudder, so it is possible to make this watertight, but a lot of cables and heating ducts going through this at the very bottom, so they must bee sealed of somehow. Also 12! Through hull fittings, but have replaced all of them with Trudesign this year. keep up your magnificent work.
we have a 5 year old 38.1 and it sounds like nothing has changed. I 'assumed' the bulkhead forward of the rudder stocks was watertight when I purchased and the decision to purchase was made, partly by this fact. I subsequently found that not to be the case as like yours, I found cable runs and heater ducting running through it, out of clear view from the watertight access port. It would not have taken much to seal these intrusions and significantly increase the safety. Keep up the great content please Team Uma, I look forward to seeing you back at the Southampton boat show as soon as your refit is complete :)
I am glad that you have brought to everyone's attention just how rudder design has the potential to sink a vessel. Time and time again the same old tired argument of keel design gets rehashed with absolutely no mention of rudder design. And of course, in your discussion you note very clearly the value of a bulkhead forward of the rudder stock. A friend of mine was crewing on a Farr 52 skippered by the late Graeme Ainley in a Sydney to Hobart race, a number of years ago. The rudder was impacted by what the crew believed to be a sunfish or a whale. This caused the bottom bearing of the rudder stock to fracture. Without the bearing in place, the rudder stock thrashed a sizeable hole in the underside of the vessel. Within only a minute or two, the water ingress became unmanageable, and the order was given to man the life raft and a mayday call was made. There was no watertight bulkhead built into that particular vessel. Fortunately, no lives were lost nor injuries incurred during the incident and the crew effectively disembarked their vessel and immediately climbed aboard a fellow competitor's yacht. I remember seeing the skipper and co-owner of the yacht interviewed on television, following the race. His statement to the reporter was something along the lines of: "It's a very sobering experience watching your vessel sink below the ocean's surface from a boat that your meant to be racing against". Graeme and his crew had the good fortune of having such a failure occur in a fleet of maybe 60 or 70 yachts and in favourable conditions. Think about this from a cruiser's perspective. That outcome could have been very different.
Dan and Kika hi from Calgary. Dan best sailing channel rant ever. But seriously it all makes sense and you delivered a clear and informative message with passion. I just love how both of you approach a project, with a plan, proper preparation (eg shipping container workshop) logical solutions, not living on the boat while completing the refit, gutting the interior, confirming the issues, hiring professionals when required and hard work. Uma is going to be one helluva boat when its complete.
We have a Duncanson 43', a 35-year-old blue water cruiser. An Australian designed yacht built to survey standards. 5 watertight compartments including a crash bulkhead fore and aft. All fittings passing through a bulkhead are sealed with bulkhead glands. Even if the main saloon is awash the vessel will remain afloat. Yes, we have a skeg hung rudder, which was tested recently when we ripped off the bottom of the rudder. The skeg was totally undamaged. We sailed 100nm to the nearest lift out facility, lifted the boat, dropped and repairs the rudder in 19 days and continued sailing.
I have installed a sealed bulkhead forward of each of our rudder Bearings on my Catamaran to mitigate exactly this situation. I have also installed a bulkhead immediately behind our Rudder bearing tube and have attached the tube to the bulkhead to further support the stock, in the event of a collision the rudder stock will break instead of the gland and bearing. Great video again, really love your analysis. Rossco
1980 Trintella 44. Front crash compartment. Chain locker is set back such that it is below the waterline. It keeps the weight of chain low and away from the bow. It drains with a 3/4" pipe to the main sump in the saloon. The main sump has a 2000gph bilge pump with an alarm that runs when the pump runs. In addition, there is is a 3700gpm emergency pump, a 2000gph shower bilge pump and a 1500gph engine bilge pump. The rudder is a 3 bearing skeg hung type behind a half height bulkhead. This also drains with a 3/4" pipe to the main saloon sump. The rudder shaft is s/s 90mm diameter at the centre bearing tapering to 60mm at each end to save weight. Built like a brick outhouse😀 the centre bearing is a bronze with a grease gun permanently attached. The rudder will be coming off this winter for the first time in 44 years. The boat has done 40,000nm in the last 10 years alone!
My therapist is talking about “compartmentalisation” too 😎 Seriously, you are doing such a great job of making this fun to watch while doing serious stuff! Loving it!
I have returned from facing my mortality and am so happy that you guys are still at it and doing so much for encouraging individualism and excellence in creating great entertainment at the same time, if we’re not careful we may learn something.
Hi guys, wonderful to see Uma being put back together. I’m so glad you decided to restore her not to just do it abandon this wonderful yacht. Uma has such a wonderful character about her and it is your home on the ocean, and I’m so glad she’s going to be so safe without all those ups and downs with the hull Keep up the good work. Love and appreciate you both from Australia.
Something to think about is how many, many years from now, if one or both of you starts to lose your memory, you will have all these wonderful videos to look back on to relive this adventure and share with future family and friends.
I've sailed on a lot of production sailing yachts with spade hung rudders and can confirm that most don't have an aft water-tight bulkhead. Great video on an important point!
This is along the lines of the lessons we should have learned from the Titanic. Gotta keep the water intrusions compartmentalized. I remember another youtube sailing channel discussing how a spade rudder hit something, bent backwards, and punched a hole right through the hull. It just surprises me that such a design is so prolific.
If I remember correctly, the Titanic did have watertight doors ... however, a 'glancing' collision and failure of riveted seams opened up 6 compartments to the sea. This exceeded her designed capacity to tolerate damage ... resulting in her sinking! Yours Aye GB
@@gbexpatcornishman3004 the Titanic also had the issue that while watertight in most dimensions the bulkheads stopped at something like the forth deck down. So exactly what you are saying happened but also the bulkheads filled like a bucket and then that water overflowed via the top of the bulkheads from one to another.
The spade rudder is, hydrodynamically speaking, the most efficient design. So it's the the preferred option for a performance boat, if properly engineered.
In the UK we call those quarter berths. Here a pilot berth (these days) is above and outboard of the saloon settee (where most boats have storage shelves). Classic Nautor Swans have good examples of both.
Fantastic description and detailed explanation of the rudder and bulkhead design systems and (possible) issues. The planning and forethought you both are putting into this project is simply amazing. Thanks for sharing and informing!!
This is like the best Pearson 36 Pearson never built. I really hope that Uma can sail into her registered home port :) It will be quite the homecoming :)
As a Dick Beaumont disciple, I believe the only safe way for bluewater sailing is your setup; integrated keel and a skeg rudder. And the maintenance you have just done on the rudder has been perfect. Then... getting rid of propane is the second most important aspect for safety in the ocean. He also believes that the liferaft should be placed in the middle of the deck not far from the mast, that is because when a boat sinks (nock-nock) either the bow or the stern go down first, so, if the liferaft is middeck it is always accessible. Beumont has some pretty useful tips on safety, and he might be a good source of info for you guys
I have watched Billy and Sierra plus Jason and Nikki with their new boats but I have more an interesting an informative experience watching you rebuild your boat. You two are very brave.
With you two I have learned a lot and knowing that rebuilding a boat takes so much time, money and hard work, the training obtained by you is helping me enormously in the decision of which boat to acquire and what weaknesses and potential problems in each design. Thank you very much for the great contribution you guys give to all of us who are just starting out in this wonderful world of traveling on sailboats. Greetings and many hugs.
The terms for the hardware for a transom hung rudder and also that skeg hung rudder, are gudgeons and pintles. The gudgeon being the sockets or sleeves and the pintles the pins. The rudder alone is not the only thing affecting balance which changes ALL the time, having to do with sail trim, centers of effort and centers of resistance beneath the water. When sails are properly trimmed so that the center of effort balances, you can leave the helm and she'll steer herself. This is most easily achieved on a schooner. My Bosun on a 125' classical schooner, trimmed the inner jib and staysail upon coming on deck from lunch then she eased the foresail, came back to the cockpit and eased the main about 6 inches, sat down and said, "You should be all balanced now Boss." I let the wheel go and ate lunch in the cockpit while we talked for 45 minutes without touching the wheel and stayed on course within 3-5 degrees either side.
Polynesian proas traditionally had no rudder, a steering oar was used when necessary (e.g. when shunting) and otherwise the boat was controlled solely by sail trim. That being said, there are many reasons you may not want a 'self steering' trim. Especially if you have no keel or centerboard, as on a lot of small catamarans- in those cases, the rudders provide much of the resistance to going sideways and the boat will perform much better upwind when trimmed with significant weatherhelm.
Thanks interesting. My boat was a Seawind 1160 cat and the rudder hit something hard and bent the stock , there was a bulkhead which was watertight but the actual rudder hole in the hull had a built in fibreglass pipe section which the stock is inserted into and its top is above the water line in fibreglass was so strongly built nothing happened to it . Took huge force to do this and the rudder when bent jammed against the hull and I had to cut some off it to free it next to the hull . But no water at all came in and if It did there is a screw in bulkhead which would slow down enough water anyway. All you’re saying is quite right . Great work . Amazing how strong the fibreglass is on those seawinds. Good work, I think those sail drives are rarely torn off they’re very strong , you’re both great sailors always good work
The joy of giving an old hull new life with new ideas was inspirational, this demo, refit with improvements of the first build is inspirational. Your fellow sailing families opted to have someone else build their dreams, you are using this time to educate others while providing piece of mind for yourselves. Great travel guides, story tellers, cinematographers, educators. Thank you for all.
mad respect, just put my sailboat in the water after 5 weeks of straight work. Was getting fussy at the end mainly over other life pressures. You guys are top to bottom rebuilding your boat, thats a lot of work! Thank you for your content :)
There are production boats with water-right bulkheads. The ones I know of are expensive boats though. I can't remember which of the Hallberg Rassy boats have them, but I know several do. Krakens have 2 water right bulkheads up front, and one in the back. Plus the Kraken uses an encapsulated keel and skeg hung rudder. Not only is the rudder sked hung but even if you loose the rudder the design is fully above the water line so no water comes in (you can also service or replace every bearing on the rudder without a haul out)
Your thinking is 1000% correct. Love it. Water tight integrity is sooooo important. Great plan! BTW it’s “ outboard rudder” and “pintles and gudgons”. All 5 of my cruising boats had no water tight bulkheads and yes, water in the bilge was normal and if it started to increase at an abnormal rate it was “ oh crap, where’s that coming from?! I have captained up to 300 passenger ferry boats. All “inspected (commercial )” vessels have to have solid rails and water tight bulkheads by law. Everything that you are saying here is 100% right! Love your thinking and design. Of my 5 cruising boat 1 was full keel attached rudder, 1 was a spade rudder. And 3 were skeg hung. I like skeg rudders the best. And all my keels were moulded in with internal lead ballast,( not bolt on), which I also prefer. Never a keel or rudder probem in many tens of thousands of miles ocean cruising. Can’t wait to see your finished product!
Pearson 424. No watertight compartments. One bilge 2 bilge pumps 2 independent lines for each. One high water sensor with a loud alarm and a bilge pump counter in the nav station to make sure somehow we get early warning. She has a skeg protected rudder like your Pearson, a very strong stock and packing gland arrangement and it is relatively small so the chance of it having enough "authority" to command the stock to make a hole in the rudder is very small. That said great idea to have a water tight compartment though !
You kids answered so many of my questions on how to do projects, at least start them, so much great advice and I know information! Been a long time fan!
I appreciate explaining the ramifications on the types of rudders and how that flows, pun intended, to bulkhead architecture. Sailing, like life, is about trade offs.
I appreciate the good points you made here and in some of the comments. I have an Ericson 27 and the bulkhead between the cockpit and cabin is in no way watertight. I have been planning to take care of that, but now I want to add another bulkhead. The shallow bilge drains into a deep bilge in the rear of the keel which is nice, but precautions need to be taken there as well because if the hollow back of the keel gets damaged the boat will sink.
@@SailingUmacheck out Translated9(aSwan 65) where the skeg started ripping of without collision!! and lots of water got in the boat in the last OGR race(6month ago?) And old Swan's have a reputation for being super strong. So skeg helps for shure but you never know. All the best to you 2 . Thanks for all your great videos!
I believe this is only happening in one specific part of the world (Strait of Gibraltar) with a specific pod of orcas, as opposed to being a typical orca behavior in general.
Orca attack any rudder, along the whole of the west coast Europe (Uk to Gibraltar.) If your rudder is fibreglass then it will be destroyed, if it is a spade rudder then likely you will have a big hole in the back of your boat as well.
Another great video! my Pearson 33 has glass tubes above the water line on every every thru hull except for the motor cooling water inlet. "Transom hung" is the word you wanted for rudders like you see on Bristol channel pilot cutters, etc.
Great explanation. I replaced the after bulkhead in my 1967 Cal 34. it never was water tight and the replacement I installed is not water tight, but with just a little attention to a few penetrations I can make it water tight. that adds another task to my winter to do list. Thanks a lot ;-)
I am so glad you decided to take the old companionway out. With everything else being nearly a clean slate, it makes sense to upgrade the "Front Door".
So pleased to hear you are thinking about safety first. ALL yachts should be built this way with watertight sections. Well done and keep going ! Love your videos.
I was JUST thinking that I need my Uma fix, and a half-hour later...here we are! Your discussion of flooding reminds me of a certain beautiful couple (you're all friends) who nearly DIED when their boat started to flood. Ever since then (and it's been a few years) I stopped watching their videos. I recently told a friend about your channel and how industrious and intelligent you both are. Cheers!
Excellent video. The rudder design you were thinking of was transom hung. Like all design these also have issues. The biggest benefit to a skeg wither full skeg or half(Like your boat) is the protection provide by the skeg. Transom hung can have the transom removed from the boat on a object strike if the transom build quality is substandard. I am building my own 40ft sail boat. And I probably going with a fin rudder. As for watertight bulkheads you have to remember the Titanic for this one. If the water tight bulked has openings and the water level ever exceeds the height of the nearest opening(In the case of an opening for chain locker or pilot berth cut out) It serves no purpose. You also have to remember that water weighs alot and this will drastically change the balance of the boat. The saving grace is the bow and stern of a sailboat tend to be above or at the DWL which reduces the amount water that can enter to begin with. For ships there is a design parameter stating how many watertight spaces can be flooded before critical failure as the water tight bulkheads usually stop above the flooded water line. For ships it is 2 compartments. I am not sure if the ABYC has one. Also be wary of over designing your boat. You know have three bilge pumps that need 100% uptime to take care of. My boat will have 1 bilge pocket, 1 main bilge pump, an emergency backup bilge pump, a manual hand pump and an emergency crash pump. This should be the minimum required for any blue water boats. All my bulkheads will be filleted to the hull with small 10mmx10mm openings for drainage to the bilge pocket. P.S Catamarans don't sink. When yachts are made out of fiberglass or wood they are positively buoyant to begin with. The down side to a mono hull is the very heavy weight permanently affixed to the bottom which makes it sink
On Torx Screws! Dear Sailing Uma, I followed you to Svalbard and back to Iceland ... and have 'dropped by' occasionally since. I have been woodworking for almost 50 years, undertaken a traditional wooden boatbuilding course in 2019 / 2020 and been building and repairing wooden railway carriages for the last 2 years. I studied aeronautical engineering at degree level, including a study of materials science, graduating over 30 years ago. I would strongly advise avoiding Torx screws in a marine environment! Stress Corrosion Cracking and Crevice Corrosion are both potential causes of the failure of stainless steel components in a marine environment. Not all Torx fasteners are created equal; can you guarantee that your Torx fasteners are A4 (316) grade stainless? That is more resistant to surface corrosion but the environmental conditions that fasteners experience - tensile stresses and low oxygen chlorine ion rich - are those that are more likely to result in failure. In addition to which, surface contamination of stainless steels with microscopic debris from plain carbon steel tools - screwdriver bits - can also encourage localised pitting corrosion. Furthermore, when it comes to future maintenance or repairs it is so much easier to clear debris, paint or sealant from a slotted screwhead than one with more complex form of socketed or recessed geometry such as Phillips, Posidriv, Square or Torx! Yours Aye GB
the corrosion aspect is equally valid for any other type of screw so unless I am missing your point - it seems that only issue with TORX is the fact that they are harder to clean. Not something I would be bothered with too much, there are still methods allowing to clean them. But the transfer of torque by torx and slotted screws is simply difficult to compare - I am yet to get to the screw I cannot unscrew since I switched to torx headed ones. When I was using Philips I had around ten per each 150 used to epoxy in a hull panel. With slotted this number would go much higher still. So I guess the matter of cleaning the screw's head is secondary, because what is the point if the screw cannot transfer forces well enough to unscrew? ps. I agree on making sure all your bolts abd screws are A4. makes really huge difference. Fortunately there are specialised suppliers who can provide each type of steel in their fasteners so you can be sure to get all of them in chosen material.
Hi GB - like Monika I'm wondering why you have an issue with a ceratain type of screw head when the issue is fundamentally one of materials. Can you amplify your thoughts?
Love to see how you're turning the boat into a true blue water cruiser. Also looking forward to that hatch rework. I always enjoy seeing how things can be done better.
Very few boats are compartmentalised as far as I know. Even centre cockpit "blue water" boats. One other issue is that it's likely that if you loose your rudder or take a hole it's likely to damage the area around the rudder (as the rudder stock on the Arcona was) so you need to isolate the area and not rely on it.
Yes Titanic had lots of bulkheads, unfortunately the iceberg ripped the hull along the ship side, which is what (likely) a steel container will do on a GRP boat as well.
I own a sunfish...no bilge pump experience whatsoever....but...I would not bend over backwards too much to add threaded caps on drains...instead, I would have rescue pumps...big and maybe little one...that you could just toss down where you need it to pump out water...then you can use it on your dingy if you need it, use it in any compartment you need or pass it to another boat in an emergency. That is just me,... 1. Awesome that you learn lessons from other boat's issues. 2. Your rudder shaft explanation was awesome!
Great rant. I would also emphasize the importance of watertight bulkheads on twin rudder monohulls where the keel provides no impact protection for the outboard rudders.
Tapio Lehman’s recently sunk Golden Globe Racer had several supplemental professionally installed watertight bulkheads in place when it sank (out of the blue and within minutes). After the incident his marine architect investigated and decided the cause of the bulkhead failures was most likely inadequate care and consideration taken in their construction. Large quantities of water are *extremely* heavy and can generate *massive* forces in counterintuitive directions that can easily collapse lightly tabbed/under-braced bulkheads with disastrous consequence… Don’t scrimp on their construction!
Tapio Lahtinen was interviewed by the owner of Alluring Artic Sailing at th-cam.com/video/b50hYbrV8dE/w-d-xo.html where he discusses the sinking of his S&S 33. In the pre-race video for the GGR Tapio explains the half dozen watertight bulkheads he put in to reduce the risk of sinking: th-cam.com/video/sYL8jLowFCI/w-d-xo.html. In the subsequent investigation his naval architects hypothesize the boat came down a wave landed on a container midships. Despite all of the watertight bulkheads the water ingress was so fast Tapio estimates the boat sank within about 6 minutes
@@SailingUma I'm using a motor kit from Electric Yacht, and a bank of Dakota 48V lithium ion batteries. So far just did a little circle around the harbour and that went fine. The funniest thing is that I'm noticing that my rudder is vibrating like crazy. I guess I never noticed before since the diesel was so loud. I thought I had messed up the prop shaft alignment or something, but if the rudder is held a little to one side like at the dock tests, the noise isn't present. By the way, I've been thinking about joining your patreon for a long time now. I think it's time to pull the trigger finally lol.
I was amazed to learn that the sort of watertight bulkheads are not common or even required for modern boats. A standard engineering safety design review should be driving those sorts of decisions. Great video (as always!)
Saying that twin rudders are cheaper than a single rudder is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Why do all Halberg Rassy boats on sale have twin rudders? To make them cheaper? Don't be ridiculous. It's like saying that a four wheel drive car is cheaper. Even engineers from Jefa Steering (who supply steering systems for anything from beneteau to Hallberg Rassy) have said that statement is absolute BS.
Smaller rudders use less material and take significantly less load than single large blades. Therefore the rudder blade is cheaper to produce and doesn't need to be as strong. A twin helm, twin rudder system can of course be more expensive overall, especially considering a carbon helm is $3000 at least. But not necessarily. Many boat designers are choosing to have twin rudders due to the current trend for wider and wider sterns. Which seems mostly to enlarge aft cabins and aft deck space, and less to do with sailing performance. However, some modern boats with modern, moderately wide hull shapes still choose single rudders. Take Salona for example. Very high-performance modern production boats, still use a single rudder. They claim it's for better performance. We certainly experienced their performance during the week we sailed on one. Even the Defur we used as an example in this video had a single rudder. Both systems obviously work and both have their pros and cons. It's not always about cost or performance. Sometimes it's to put in a dinghy garage or some other interior restriction. Besides, this rant wasn't even about twin vs single rudders. It was about the lack of a very simple safety protocol that we think ALL boats should utilize. And that is compartmentalization and watertight compartments. ESPECIALLY forward of a spade rudder. But like we said in the beginning of this rant... we're marine engineers. These are our opinions based on observations we've made. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
This was a wonderful explanation bulkhead science. You two have seemingly really considered all the details in this rebuild. Congrats! Can't wait to see the finished project
My oh my- thanks for a great lesson on “sinking” risk related to lack of water tight areas… no idea as to the risks and potential risk management options! What a marvelous learning opportunity for so many viewers!!! Thanks again
Wow, what a great "design/mod" video... I've got a smaller (B24) keel boat with a rudder issue I've been scratching my head... y'all gave me the solution I think... since I have to go into the area anyway, I think a water-tight bulkhead of maybe a box will not only supply the support, but also the emergency integrity... ☺
I remember taking my first Cost Guard Auxiliary boating safety course. Our instructors gave us a section on hull designs, construction techniques and best materials to use, best practices of building hulls and gave us examples from Bay liners to Boston Wailers. The whole class was in awe that you could easily purchase a new boat that was absolutely junk.
The component names that you weren’t sure of to describe attachment of a rudder to the transom of a boat are pintles and gudgeons. Great teamwork. I’d throw more glass on your bulkheads so you have less worries about rotting wood.
This has probably been mentioned here already, but two points: 1. The transom hung rudder is called a "gudgeon and pintle" rudder 2. Looking at that boat go down and the owner/captain apparently had time to go down, look at the broken rudder post, TAKE A VIDEO of it happening, but didn't think to jam stuffing around the hole to slow the inflow. So many times I've seen and heard of boats being stove in by marauding whales or hitting a submerged object. The skipper stuffs pillows, mattresses, life jackets, berth cushions or ANYTHING into the hole and saves the boat from sinking. I've even heard a story about using a tarp OUTSIDE the boat held on to the hull by lines running through grommets going around the bottom and tied to the toe rail or cleats.
As I recall from my liveaboard days, boats needed both an electric bilge pump and a manual bilge pump, plus bailing buckets (for surveys, insurance, pre-race inspections etc.). The electric pump was always connected to a battery (bypasssing the switches). This video is an excellent tutorial and polemic concerning watertight bulkheads and their placewment. Yes, sailors write polemics, the Pardys certainly had strong opinions about lots of things, and I recall a book of French origin which surveyed anchor designs most vigourously.
I have a 45 foot ketch and when I was looking for a boat, some kind of skeg was a critical feature. My boat has a half skeg, which means that about a foot of my three foot leading edge of the rudder is below the lower rudder bearing and can be used to balance the rudder a bit. For me thats an acceptable compromise since it reduces rudder shaft torque significantly. After your video I will consider to watertighten the rudder compartment though. As you said, it's an easy life insurance. Thanks for your great and educational videos :)
Probably a little late to draw attention to it but having followed last years single hand Golen Globe race, I found the modifications made for companionways quite fascinating. Their website had boat tours and tech details for all the entrants. Boats were all similar vintage to Uma. And watertight bulkheads were an entry requirement. For our 42 ft. Alpa centre cockpit ketch my husband did a clever quick fix for the 2 companionways. Using one inch thick plank that fit the groove, he had three L grooved segments cut horizontally to replace the one piece slider. Much easier to store and very strong. We often left the top one or two out for circulation but were still well protected from the weather. Sorry to "run on" but your video was so great, it gets a person thinking of what works and what doesn't. You look like you are well on your way to "what works". She'll be a great boat to sail.
skeg hung rudders can be balanced too, the way this is done is by having a cutout in the skeg to clear a section at the bottom of the rudder that overhangs the rudder post forwards. And I don't know if you would count dinghies, but every one I've ever sailed has had watertight compartments (buoyancy tanks), air bags (can you guess which boat I sailed as a kid?) or a hull filled with foam.
Thank you for this video! I’ve been trying to picture how an orca > broken rudder > sunken boat. You explained it so well. That’s insane that a bulkhead in front of the rudder is not standard.
I have a 2011 model Gemini sailing catamaran. The rudder post are very short (around two feet I think). The boat has pivoting kick up spade style rudders that hinge up into a slot molded into the hulls. When deployed they hang down almost four feet (lots of power) but when raised (pivoted back) they only stick about six inches below the hull bottom. The posts come up at the front of the slot which is open to the stern access space which is water tight to the rest of the boat. These access lockers are usually flooded a couple inches deep.
... excellent rant ... a lot of great info included with it ... I don't sail now due to leg loss, but would definitely want to apply your ideas of compartmentalising to my boat ...
Something I didn't catch if you mentioned it, is that water bulkheads should be a similar construction schedule as the hull because if there is a breach they will experience similar pressure. This does add a huge amount of weight and probably a primary reason most production boats don't have them.
Thank you for this great explanation. I never thought about this before but now I’m wondering how A-class boats can be A-class without a watertight rudder compartment. I have a very small boat where the bilge is supposed to be flooded to create a ballast. The bilge is watertight underneath the cockpit floor. In the front we have a watertight storage hatch. The hull is doubled and filled with waterresistant foam to make it unsinkable even it flips over (if the boat capsizes it is up in seconds). She has a long keel and the rudder is attached to the keel itself. The only way for water to flood the boat is when it’s raining or I forget to put in the cockpit drain plug 😅. We have always a bucket and a big sponge to get the water out if some gets in. Uma will be one of the safest A-class sailboats after this refit.
Really interesting stuff and kudos for both your sense of adventure! might want to round the corners on that square hole cut in the bulkhead ... sharp corners concentrate forces... rounded corners spread the love all around!
My future boat will be a Cyber 48 and it has some water tight bulkheads in each hull. That was an eye opener how you explained all of this even though I've seen that video of the boat sinking several times. I didn't even think about how it sunk. This makes me look at things a lot closer. Thanks for sharing!
Amazing logical thinking displayed in this video guys. Sadly production boat companies call their designs blue white boats and putting their unaware customers at true great risks. You are surely the best teachers and instructors out here on youtube. Much praises for your dedicated thoughts, time and energy you both put into making, editing and post. What ever happen to the idea of followers requesting you guys designing an affordable blue water cruiser that you guys talk mentioned in passed episodes. I was hopeful that would come to fruition. Jim Rodgers
as i am a retired broadcast engineer i have long felt television is not living up to its promise/use as an educational tool. the two of you have restored my faith in this concept, THANK YOU! add to this the fact that you both are natural teachers (my mother was one and you both remind me of her "style"". Please keep up the great work!!!
TV is becoming an anchronism. It is not providing the content people want to watch, while it is politically and ideologicaly biased.
TH-cam is actually the last bastion of knowledge transfer these days. The public school system has failed. Granted TH-cam also censors a great deal of content which doesn't conform to the new woke orthodoxy, so it's a double edged sword.
But Medias greatest feat of all turn. Capitalism bad communism good.
Gary this is TH-cam if you had the time you could get a Phd watching people screw up enough to learn common sense, try learning that from a book…
Sailing UMA is doing a sensational job and true leaders in their feat. TV is dead and it is dependent on us to create content with top quality.
Excellent rant. I really appreciate your explanations and learning opportunities. Rudders, compartments, bilges and pumps.
Loved it.
Ill check the possibilities on my boat to separate 3 segments.
I regularly mention in sailing communities that it's absurd to have an offshore boat that could potentially sink from rudder damage. A watertight bulkhead between the rudder and the rest of the boat is a critical design feature necessary for any boat to be considered blue water, IMO. Glad you're talking about this in detail.
Particularly all this press about orcas taking out rudders....
@@TedKiddAbout 3 boats have sunk from orca attacks around Spain. All of them sunk because of this stupid issue, missing bulkhead fwd of the rudder. Several others have been near by sinking, again from the same thing.
I’ve also ranted about it innumerable times through decades. It astounds me that the builders don’t just do this right! It’s even very cheap. Must be some sort of immunity to brains and reason that is widespread among boat builders.
Mine is a 1978 Vaitses/Herreshoff Meadowlark. The bulkhead that separates the cabin from the cockpit is watertight, creating two large compartments.
I've not done the math to see if the boat would float with either one flooded.
My gosh, what Info But you forgot one thing.
And now I can't remember it.😂 I've never came across such Thoroughness. Thank you so much.
For showing us how And bringing us along. Long time watcher and Listener. Take care and god bless.❤❤❤
Canada here. Well said brother. That wasn't a rant. That was a lesson in " Buyer Beware ". And how to stay alive. Retired renovation carpenter. Love the both of you . And your work.
I have an aluminum 28 ft sailboat which i bought several years ago. It is aged 56 years now and over some years I reinforced it with additional stringers and bulkheads. So now it has 6 watertight bulkheads which are placed corresponding to your ideas of fortifying a boat against water ingress. Even the skeg itself was enlarged and reinforced, because I don't sail regattas anymore but like singlehanded long distance sailing, where rudder agility is counterproductive. I hope that these modifications will be helpful in high latitude sailing which is on my bucket list for the next years. Fair winds to all of you sailing guys out there.
And following seas.
"long distance sailing, where rudder agility is counterproductive" absolute nonsense. Couldn't be more wrong.
It's always cool to see you two get into architect mode!
Naval Architect Mode. 👍🏻😎
Professional commercial mariner here, US tanker fleet for almost 20 years, life-long regatta kid and now cruiser, AND armchair-wannabe-naval architect (since I was a kid as well).
THE BEST AND CONCISE AND EASY TO UNDERSTAND explanation (with visual aids!!!) of some really core, but overlooked, principles of naval arch.
Nobody gets away from the engineering triangle, “High Quality, Fast Production, Low Expense…chose 2”. But you guys, your work, and your sharing is amazing! Long time subscriber and enjoy your work, helps inspire me on my boat jobs at home.
Good luck as the refit continues!!!
I wouldn't be surprised if Dan (and/or Kika) went back to school for engineering degree. He's obviously got the aptitude.
That's a myth. If your engineering design targets function, not profit. Then quality, speed, and price all help each other.
You are repeating a slogan from managers and salesmen. Not engineers.
@@aaronfranklin324 It's a principle from economics. It's universal.
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017Economics as you refer to it, has nothing to do with physical reality.
It is a cultural construct.
The highest quality design for a purpose is the simplest. The best materials to use are the quickest and cheapest to make it from.
That is the physical reality of the world we live in.
That the best materials last for ever, and complicated design, crappy fabrication and materials that won't last can be sold by scamsters at higher profits, that is this sick culture masquerading as a science, called economics you refer to.
Usually true but not always true.
Model T Ford, and modern Toyota Corolla are two examples
that are exceptions to the rule…
Our 1977 Rival 38 centre cockpit ketch didn't have any watertight bulkheads. As part of our big refit we have created multiple watertight compartments within the forecabin (plus entry to it that's above the waterline, will have a bolt close watertight door to use at sea).
We are creating watertight compartments under the aft cabin bunk for rudder post (will leak a bit around the solid steering connection).
Also a coffer dam around our 3 seacocks (2 cockpit drains 1 inlet for watermaker, deck wash etc) and propeller shaft (will leak a bit around the aquadrive).
As a 50 yr young American / Italian, I absolutely adore the both of you. I’m happy you’re back working on your sailboat and look forward to your continued adventures across the oceans. I’ve always loved the way you show other cultures and share your experiences and tell your stories. Such talented young couple! So much respect and admiration 🙏🏼❤️🙏🏼
Dan, you did one excellent presentation on why water tight bulk heads are critical to be in any blue water boat! I think what you and Kika are doing is fantastic and you will have a super safe nice yacht when you are all done. It wasn’t a rant, rather an excellent , simplified explanation of the facts. Very well done! 😊🧐🧐⛵️
You make excellent points in this video. I would like to add some input based on many years of offshore sailboat racing. Spade rudders can increase the capability of not sinking the boat by doing a couple of things and these are: 1) Use an internal rudder tube that is very strong and that goes between the inner hull and the cockpit deck. The rudder shaft rides on bearings in this tube; 2) Have the rudder shaft engineered so it is the weak link in the steering system so that if the boat hits something big enough to tear the rudder off, the shaft snaps and you lose the rudder, but not the boat; 3) Carry a spare rudder if you are going offshore. It doesn't take up as much space as you think and if you do lose a rudder (shaft being weak link), you can replace the rudder at sea; and 4) absolutely have a watertight bulkhead between the rudder shaft and the balance of the boat and try to make this watertight compartment as small as possible, even to the point of having a bulkhead before and after the rudder shaft.
Another point is bilge pumps. Pretty much all, and I repeat all, bilge pumps installed in commercially manufactured sailboats are there only to remove nuisance water that may accumulate in the bilge. They typically have flow rates of less than 100 GPH (usually less than 50 GPH) and can be overwhelmed by losing a 1" diameter penetration point in the below waterline area. If you are serious about going offshore, look into getting a bilge pump, or bilge pumps, capable of 750 GPH to 1,000 GPH. These may not save the boat in a truly catastrophic incident, but may save the boat in a situation where you lose a hose or fitting on a hull penetration and need time to plug the water entry point. There are commercially available marine grade bilge pumps in this size range and they are not that expensive when compared to looking at total boat loss or having to abandon the boat in a deepwater situation.
Having a means of shutting engine cooling inlet, detaching the hose and lowering it to the bilges is a good way of getting the engine water pump to pump out the bilges in a crisis is a good cheap fix
I have thing to add.
Remember to make baffles perpendicular to the bulkhead.
The purpose is to avoid or limit the Free Flow Water effect, which makes a boat less stable.Remember that the baffles must a lot higher than above the waterline. The reason is that the boat can be heeling because of a wind force on the sails - or - because of water ingress from a hole in the hull.
These are excellent points.
What about a keel hung rudder? Or, a cylindrical tube as a bulkhead around the shaft? You can find serious filament wound fiberglass pipe for injection wells (oil and gas) rated for 3,000psi normal operating pressure with a safety factor near 10ksi...
Just saying, there are some serious materials out there that can be readily bonded in place.
@ronlukwe4875 Great points... but I assume those flow ratings you list for bilge pumps are meant to be GPH, not GPM? 1000 GPM (60,000 GPH) is a massive flow that many fire trucks are not capable of pumping at that rate...
@@jchase5408 Good catch!! I have changed the original post to GPH. I have been a project manager on many refinery projects and tend to always think in GPM. BTW, the main crude charge feed pumps in a refinery will be 2 or more pumps rated at 5,000 to 10,000 GPM depending on the refinery throughput. The motors are huge and often require their own 5kv feed.
I never would have understood what you were talking about when you were talking about your bulkheads and sectioning off the boat with them until you went over that in this video. At the end of the video I said to myself, it all makes sense to me what they are doing and why. Thank you for using the other boats to explain it, because it now makes me think twice about sailboats and how they are built.
Tusen takk DK for this tip regarding watertight bulkheads.
Beneteau Oceanis 500(1988). No watertight bulkheads in this boat.
There is a bulkhead in front of the rudder, so it is possible to make this watertight, but a lot of cables and heating ducts going through this at the very bottom, so they must bee sealed of somehow.
Also 12! Through hull fittings, but have replaced all of them with Trudesign this year.
keep up your magnificent work.
Yes. That’s usually the case. The bulkhead is there. But they just drill a dozen holes in it, which makes it useless.
we have a 5 year old 38.1 and it sounds like nothing has changed. I 'assumed' the bulkhead forward of the rudder stocks was watertight when I purchased and the decision to purchase was made, partly by this fact. I subsequently found that not to be the case as like yours, I found cable runs and heater ducting running through it, out of clear view from the watertight access port. It would not have taken much to seal these intrusions and significantly increase the safety.
Keep up the great content please Team Uma, I look forward to seeing you back at the Southampton boat show as soon as your refit is complete :)
I do not sail but I learned a lot today. Thank you very much for this great episode.
I am glad that you have brought to everyone's attention just how rudder design has the potential to sink a vessel. Time and time again the same old tired argument of keel design gets rehashed with absolutely no mention of rudder design. And of course, in your discussion you note very clearly the value of a bulkhead forward of the rudder stock.
A friend of mine was crewing on a Farr 52 skippered by the late Graeme Ainley in a Sydney to Hobart race, a number of years ago. The rudder was impacted by what the crew believed to be a sunfish or a whale. This caused the bottom bearing of the rudder stock to fracture. Without the bearing in place, the rudder stock thrashed a sizeable hole in the underside of the vessel. Within only a minute or two, the water ingress became unmanageable, and the order was given to man the life raft and a mayday call was made. There was no watertight bulkhead built into that particular vessel.
Fortunately, no lives were lost nor injuries incurred during the incident and the crew effectively disembarked their vessel and immediately climbed aboard a fellow competitor's yacht.
I remember seeing the skipper and co-owner of the yacht interviewed on television, following the race. His statement to the reporter was something along the lines of: "It's a very sobering experience watching your vessel sink below the ocean's surface from a boat that your meant to be racing against".
Graeme and his crew had the good fortune of having such a failure occur in a fleet of maybe 60 or 70 yachts and in favourable conditions. Think about this from a cruiser's perspective. That outcome could have been very different.
Dan and Kika hi from Calgary. Dan best sailing channel rant ever. But seriously it all makes sense and you delivered a clear and informative message with passion. I just love how both of you approach a project, with a plan, proper preparation (eg shipping container workshop) logical solutions, not living on the boat while completing the refit, gutting the interior, confirming the issues, hiring professionals when required and hard work.
Uma is going to be one helluva boat when its complete.
We have a Duncanson 43', a 35-year-old blue water cruiser. An Australian designed yacht built to survey standards. 5 watertight compartments including a crash bulkhead fore and aft. All fittings passing through a bulkhead are sealed with bulkhead glands. Even if the main saloon is awash the vessel will remain afloat. Yes, we have a skeg hung rudder, which was tested recently when we ripped off the bottom of the rudder. The skeg was totally undamaged. We sailed 100nm to the nearest lift out facility, lifted the boat, dropped and repairs the rudder in 19 days and continued sailing.
I have installed a sealed bulkhead forward of each of our rudder Bearings on my Catamaran to mitigate exactly this situation. I have also installed a bulkhead immediately behind our Rudder bearing tube and have attached the tube to the bulkhead to further support the stock, in the event of a collision the rudder stock will break instead of the gland and bearing. Great video again, really love your analysis. Rossco
Sounds like great preventative work. Good job!!
1980 Trintella 44. Front crash compartment. Chain locker is set back such that it is below the waterline. It keeps the weight of chain low and away from the bow. It drains with a 3/4" pipe to the main sump in the saloon. The main sump has a 2000gph bilge pump with an alarm that runs when the pump runs. In addition, there is is a 3700gpm emergency pump, a 2000gph shower bilge pump and a 1500gph engine bilge pump. The rudder is a 3 bearing skeg hung type behind a half height bulkhead. This also drains with a 3/4" pipe to the main saloon sump. The rudder shaft is s/s 90mm diameter at the centre bearing tapering to 60mm at each end to save weight. Built like a brick outhouse😀 the centre bearing is a bronze with a grease gun permanently attached. The rudder will be coming off this winter for the first time in 44 years. The boat has done 40,000nm in the last 10 years alone!
When you get to installing alarms , use several different types of voices for the alarms so you can tell them apart instantly.
My therapist is talking about “compartmentalisation” too 😎
Seriously, you are doing such a great job of making this fun to watch while doing serious stuff! Loving it!
Two things you should always compartmentalize your life and your boat
Much more explanitory videos like this please. This is the reason I have followed you from the beginning. Cheers, keep it up!
I have returned from facing my mortality and am so happy that you guys are still at it and doing so much for encouraging individualism and excellence in creating great entertainment at the same time, if we’re not careful we may learn something.
Hi guys, wonderful to see Uma being put back together. I’m so glad you decided to restore her not to just do it abandon this wonderful yacht. Uma has such a wonderful character about her and it is your home on the ocean, and I’m so glad she’s going to be so safe without all those ups and downs with the hull Keep up the good work. Love and appreciate you both from Australia.
Something to think about is how many, many years from now, if one or both of you starts to lose your memory, you will have all these wonderful videos to look back on to relive this adventure and share with future family and friends.
Love the water tight compartment explanation, and so handy that you’re in a boatyard with examples of the rudder types. 🤓
I've enjoyed almost all of your videos, that being said the construction videos are always my favorites.
I've sailed on a lot of production sailing yachts with spade hung rudders and can confirm that most don't have an aft water-tight bulkhead. Great video on an important point!
This is along the lines of the lessons we should have learned from the Titanic. Gotta keep the water intrusions compartmentalized. I remember another youtube sailing channel discussing how a spade rudder hit something, bent backwards, and punched a hole right through the hull. It just surprises me that such a design is so prolific.
It’s cheap and they play the numbers game.
But yeah I want a skeg hung rudder.
If I remember correctly, the Titanic did have watertight doors ... however, a 'glancing' collision and failure of riveted seams opened up 6 compartments to the sea. This exceeded her designed capacity to tolerate damage ... resulting in her sinking!
Yours Aye
GB
@@gbexpatcornishman3004 the Titanic also had the issue that while watertight in most dimensions the bulkheads stopped at something like the forth deck down. So exactly what you are saying happened but also the bulkheads filled like a bucket and then that water overflowed via the top of the bulkheads from one to another.
@@gbexpatcornishman3004 I believe her watertight compartments didn't seal at the top?
The spade rudder is, hydrodynamically speaking, the most efficient design. So it's the the preferred option for a performance boat, if properly engineered.
Fantastic episode. As someone who's not conversant with boat design (or even sailing), it's great to hear about all the thought going into the refit.
In the UK we call those quarter berths. Here a pilot berth (these days) is above and outboard of the saloon settee (where most boats have storage shelves).
Classic Nautor Swans have good examples of both.
In New Zealand we call them quarter berths too.
Fantastic description and detailed explanation of the rudder and bulkhead design systems and (possible) issues. The planning and forethought you both are putting into this project is simply amazing. Thanks for sharing and informing!!
This is like the best Pearson 36 Pearson never built. I really hope that Uma can sail into her registered home port :) It will be quite the homecoming :)
It would be so cool to see Uma in the Harbour City
is it really a Pearson at this point? or just an Uma or whatever Dan and Kika use as a company/family name?
As a Dick Beaumont disciple, I believe the only safe way for bluewater sailing is your setup; integrated keel and a skeg rudder. And the maintenance you have just done on the rudder has been perfect. Then... getting rid of propane is the second most important aspect for safety in the ocean. He also believes that the liferaft should be placed in the middle of the deck not far from the mast, that is because when a boat sinks (nock-nock) either the bow or the stern go down first, so, if the liferaft is middeck it is always accessible. Beumont has some pretty useful tips on safety, and he might be a good source of info for you guys
I have watched Billy and Sierra plus Jason and Nikki with their new boats but I have more an interesting an informative experience watching you rebuild your boat. You two are very brave.
With you two I have learned a lot and knowing that rebuilding a boat takes so much time, money and hard work, the training obtained by you is helping me enormously in the decision of which boat to acquire and what weaknesses and potential problems in each design. Thank you very much for the great contribution you guys give to all of us who are just starting out in this wonderful world of traveling on sailboats. Greetings and many hugs.
The terms for the hardware for a transom hung rudder and also that skeg hung rudder, are gudgeons and pintles. The gudgeon being the sockets or sleeves and the pintles the pins. The rudder alone is not the only thing affecting balance which changes ALL the time, having to do with sail trim, centers of effort and centers of resistance beneath the water. When sails are properly trimmed so that the center of effort balances, you can leave the helm and she'll steer herself. This is most easily achieved on a schooner. My Bosun on a 125' classical schooner, trimmed the inner jib and staysail upon coming on deck from lunch then she eased the foresail, came back to the cockpit and eased the main about 6 inches, sat down and said, "You should be all balanced now Boss." I let the wheel go and ate lunch in the cockpit while we talked for 45 minutes without touching the wheel and stayed on course within 3-5 degrees either side.
Polynesian proas traditionally had no rudder, a steering oar was used when necessary (e.g. when shunting) and otherwise the boat was controlled solely by sail trim.
That being said, there are many reasons you may not want a 'self steering' trim. Especially if you have no keel or centerboard, as on a lot of small catamarans- in those cases, the rudders provide much of the resistance to going sideways and the boat will perform much better upwind when trimmed with significant weatherhelm.
Thanks interesting. My boat was a Seawind 1160 cat and the rudder hit something hard and bent the stock , there was a bulkhead which was watertight but the actual rudder hole in the hull had a built in fibreglass pipe section which the stock is inserted into and its top is above the water line in fibreglass was so strongly built nothing happened to it . Took huge force to do this and the rudder when bent jammed against the hull and I had to cut some off it to free it next to the hull . But no water at all came in and if It did there is a screw in bulkhead which would slow down enough water anyway. All you’re saying is quite right . Great work . Amazing how strong the fibreglass is on those seawinds. Good work, I think those sail drives are rarely torn off they’re very strong , you’re both great sailors always good work
PREACH!!! You have much wisdom to impart. Do it more!
The joy of giving an old hull new life with new ideas was inspirational, this demo, refit with improvements of the first build is inspirational. Your fellow sailing families opted to have someone else build their dreams, you are using this time to educate others while providing piece of mind for yourselves.
Great travel guides, story tellers, cinematographers, educators. Thank you for all.
Great rant/teaching lesson, fantastic episode. One of your best ever on the building side.
mad respect, just put my sailboat in the water after 5 weeks of straight work. Was getting fussy at the end mainly over other life pressures. You guys are top to bottom rebuilding your boat, thats a lot of work! Thank you for your content :)
Oh my goodness. You are almost to Step 400 ! Great Big Hugs ! 🌞⛵️🌴
Wow… INCREDIBLE TEACHING VIDEO…. This is the best teaching of Boat Architect INFO I have ever SEEN or HEARD!
There are production boats with water-right bulkheads. The ones I know of are expensive boats though.
I can't remember which of the Hallberg Rassy boats have them, but I know several do.
Krakens have 2 water right bulkheads up front, and one in the back. Plus the Kraken uses an encapsulated keel and skeg hung rudder. Not only is the rudder sked hung but even if you loose the rudder the design is fully above the water line so no water comes in (you can also service or replace every bearing on the rudder without a haul out)
Love the Krakens but will never be able to afford one.
Your thinking is 1000% correct. Love it. Water tight integrity is sooooo important. Great plan! BTW it’s “ outboard rudder” and “pintles and gudgons”. All 5 of my cruising boats had no water tight bulkheads and yes, water in the bilge was normal and if it started to increase at an abnormal rate it was “ oh crap, where’s that coming from?! I have captained up to 300 passenger ferry boats. All “inspected (commercial )” vessels have to have solid rails and water tight bulkheads by law.
Everything that you are saying here is 100% right! Love your thinking and design. Of my 5 cruising boat 1 was full keel attached rudder, 1 was a spade rudder. And 3 were skeg hung. I like skeg rudders the best. And all my keels were moulded in with internal lead ballast,( not bolt on), which I also prefer. Never a keel or rudder probem in many tens of thousands of miles ocean cruising. Can’t wait to see your finished product!
Pearson 424. No watertight compartments. One bilge 2 bilge pumps 2 independent lines for each. One high water sensor with a loud alarm and a bilge pump counter in the nav station to make sure somehow we get early warning. She has a skeg protected rudder like your Pearson, a very strong stock and packing gland arrangement and it is relatively small so the chance of it having enough "authority" to command the stock to make a hole in the rudder is very small. That said great idea to have a water tight compartment though !
You kids answered so many of my questions on how to do projects, at least start them, so much great advice and I know information! Been a long time fan!
For the sail drive. Make an upside-down bucket with gasket and use over center pull latches that will crank the bucket down to the floor.
I appreciate explaining the ramifications on the types of rudders and how that flows, pun intended, to bulkhead architecture. Sailing, like life, is about trade offs.
That was a very informative episode. I learned a lot.
I appreciate the good points you made here and in some of the comments. I have an Ericson 27 and the bulkhead between the cockpit and cabin is in no way watertight. I have been planning to take care of that, but now I want to add another bulkhead. The shallow bilge drains into a deep bilge in the rear of the keel which is nice, but precautions need to be taken there as well because if the hollow back of the keel gets damaged the boat will sink.
Orca’s also like to play(attack)with the spade hang rudders….
Yes. And sometimes sink boats for the same reason
@@SailingUmacheck out Translated9(aSwan 65) where the skeg started ripping of without collision!! and lots of water got in the boat in the last OGR race(6month ago?) And old Swan's have a reputation for being super strong. So skeg helps for shure but you never know.
All the best to you 2 . Thanks for all your great videos!
I believe this is only happening in one specific part of the world (Strait of Gibraltar) with a specific pod of orcas, as opposed to being a typical orca behavior in general.
Orca attack any rudder, along the whole of the west coast Europe (Uk to Gibraltar.)
If your rudder is fibreglass then it will be destroyed, if it is a spade rudder then likely you will have a big hole in the back of your boat as well.
Another great video!
my Pearson 33 has glass tubes above the water line on every every thru hull except for the motor cooling water inlet.
"Transom hung" is the word you wanted for rudders like you see on Bristol channel pilot cutters, etc.
You guys will soon establish your own boat factory
Great explanation. I replaced the after bulkhead in my 1967 Cal 34. it never was water tight and the replacement I installed is not water tight, but with just a little attention to a few penetrations I can make it water tight. that adds another task to my winter to do list. Thanks a lot ;-)
I am so glad you decided to take the old companionway out. With everything else being nearly a clean slate, it makes sense to upgrade the "Front Door".
So pleased to hear you are thinking about safety first. ALL yachts should be built this way with watertight sections. Well done and keep going ! Love your videos.
I was JUST thinking that I need my Uma fix, and a half-hour later...here we are! Your discussion of flooding reminds me of a certain beautiful couple (you're all friends) who nearly DIED when their boat started to flood. Ever since then (and it's been a few years) I stopped watching their videos. I recently told a friend about your channel and how industrious and intelligent you both are. Cheers!
Yes. Beau and Bandy almost lost their boat due to a different poor design/build. Scary times. Glad they’re ok now.
Excellent video. The rudder design you were thinking of was transom hung. Like all design these also have issues. The biggest benefit to a skeg wither full skeg or half(Like your boat) is the protection provide by the skeg. Transom hung can have the transom removed from the boat on a object strike if the transom build quality is substandard.
I am building my own 40ft sail boat. And I probably going with a fin rudder. As for watertight bulkheads you have to remember the Titanic for this one. If the water tight bulked has openings and the water level ever exceeds the height of the nearest opening(In the case of an opening for chain locker or pilot berth cut out) It serves no purpose. You also have to remember that water weighs alot and this will drastically change the balance of the boat. The saving grace is the bow and stern of a sailboat tend to be above or at the DWL which reduces the amount water that can enter to begin with. For ships there is a design parameter stating how many watertight spaces can be flooded before critical failure as the water tight bulkheads usually stop above the flooded water line. For ships it is 2 compartments. I am not sure if the ABYC has one.
Also be wary of over designing your boat. You know have three bilge pumps that need 100% uptime to take care of. My boat will have 1 bilge pocket, 1 main bilge pump, an emergency backup bilge pump, a manual hand pump and an emergency crash pump. This should be the minimum required for any blue water boats. All my bulkheads will be filleted to the hull with small 10mmx10mm openings for drainage to the bilge pocket.
P.S Catamarans don't sink. When yachts are made out of fiberglass or wood they are positively buoyant to begin with. The down side to a mono hull is the very heavy weight permanently affixed to the bottom which makes it sink
On Torx Screws!
Dear Sailing Uma, I followed you to Svalbard and back to Iceland ... and have 'dropped by' occasionally since. I have been woodworking for almost 50 years, undertaken a traditional wooden boatbuilding course in 2019 / 2020 and been building and repairing wooden railway carriages for the last 2 years. I studied aeronautical engineering at degree level, including a study of materials science, graduating over 30 years ago. I would strongly advise avoiding Torx screws in a marine environment! Stress Corrosion Cracking and Crevice Corrosion are both potential causes of the failure of stainless steel components in a marine environment. Not all Torx fasteners are created equal; can you guarantee that your Torx fasteners are A4 (316) grade stainless? That is more resistant to surface corrosion but the environmental conditions that fasteners experience - tensile stresses and low oxygen chlorine ion rich - are those that are more likely to result in failure. In addition to which, surface contamination of stainless steels with microscopic debris from plain carbon steel tools - screwdriver bits - can also encourage localised pitting corrosion. Furthermore, when it comes to future maintenance or repairs it is so much easier to clear debris, paint or sealant from a slotted screwhead than one with more complex form of socketed or recessed geometry such as Phillips, Posidriv, Square or Torx!
Yours Aye
GB
the corrosion aspect is equally valid for any other type of screw so unless I am missing your point - it seems that only issue with TORX is the fact that they are harder to clean. Not something I would be bothered with too much, there are still methods allowing to clean them.
But the transfer of torque by torx and slotted screws is simply difficult to compare - I am yet to get to the screw I cannot unscrew since I switched to torx headed ones. When I was using Philips I had around ten per each 150 used to epoxy in a hull panel. With slotted this number would go much higher still. So I guess the matter of cleaning the screw's head is secondary, because what is the point if the screw cannot transfer forces well enough to unscrew?
ps. I agree on making sure all your bolts abd screws are A4. makes really huge difference. Fortunately there are specialised suppliers who can provide each type of steel in their fasteners so you can be sure to get all of them in chosen material.
Hi GB - like Monika I'm wondering why you have an issue with a ceratain type of screw head when the issue is fundamentally one of materials. Can you amplify your thoughts?
Love to see how you're turning the boat into a true blue water cruiser. Also looking forward to that hatch rework. I always enjoy seeing how things can be done better.
Very few boats are compartmentalised as far as I know. Even centre cockpit "blue water" boats.
One other issue is that it's likely that if you loose your rudder or take a hole it's likely to damage the area around the rudder (as the rudder stock on the Arcona was) so you need to isolate the area and not rely on it.
Great episode - not many would have thought to have gone into this subject in such detail and it's fascinating. Many thanks!!
Interesting tutorial on the bulkheads. With multiple bulkheads you should be just as unsinkable as the Titanic.
😆😅😂🤣
Yes Titanic had lots of bulkheads, unfortunately the iceberg ripped the hull along the ship side, which is what (likely) a steel container will do on a GRP boat as well.
Another problem with the titanic is the watertight bulkhead did not go all the way to the deck so it could and did overflow the top of the bulkhead
I own a sunfish...no bilge pump experience whatsoever....but...I would not bend over backwards too much to add threaded caps on drains...instead, I would have rescue pumps...big and maybe little one...that you could just toss down where you need it to pump out water...then you can use it on your dingy if you need it, use it in any compartment you need or pass it to another boat in an emergency. That is just me,...
1. Awesome that you learn lessons from other boat's issues.
2. Your rudder shaft explanation was awesome!
Watching the masthead slip below the waves hurt me. It hurt my soul :(
It’s every sailors worst nightmare.
Great rant. I would also emphasize the importance of watertight bulkheads on twin rudder monohulls where the keel provides no impact protection for the outboard rudders.
Tapio Lehman’s recently sunk Golden Globe Racer had several supplemental professionally installed watertight bulkheads in place when it sank (out of the blue and within minutes). After the incident his marine architect investigated and decided the cause of the bulkhead failures was most likely inadequate care and consideration taken in their construction. Large quantities of water are *extremely* heavy and can generate *massive* forces in counterintuitive directions that can easily collapse lightly tabbed/under-braced bulkheads with disastrous consequence… Don’t scrimp on their construction!
Tapio Lahtinen was interviewed by the owner of Alluring Artic Sailing at th-cam.com/video/b50hYbrV8dE/w-d-xo.html where he discusses the sinking of his S&S 33. In the pre-race video for the GGR Tapio explains the half dozen watertight bulkheads he put in to reduce the risk of sinking: th-cam.com/video/sYL8jLowFCI/w-d-xo.html. In the subsequent investigation his naval architects hypothesize the boat came down a wave landed on a container midships. Despite all of the watertight bulkheads the water ingress was so fast Tapio estimates the boat sank within about 6 minutes
Lagoon is a perfect example of shortcuts and how ridiculous profit over quality is far too common.
Just took my freshly converted electric sailboat out for its first motor trial. Y'all have been a great inspiration for me. Thanks!
Awesome!!! What system are you using? How’d the sea trial go?
@@SailingUma I'm using a motor kit from Electric Yacht, and a bank of Dakota 48V lithium ion batteries. So far just did a little circle around the harbour and that went fine.
The funniest thing is that I'm noticing that my rudder is vibrating like crazy. I guess I never noticed before since the diesel was so loud. I thought I had messed up the prop shaft alignment or something, but if the rudder is held a little to one side like at the dock tests, the noise isn't present.
By the way, I've been thinking about joining your patreon for a long time now. I think it's time to pull the trigger finally lol.
Twin rudders cheaper? Wrong.
I was amazed to learn that the sort of watertight bulkheads are not common or even required for modern boats. A standard engineering safety design review should be driving those sorts of decisions.
Great video (as always!)
Saying that twin rudders are cheaper than a single rudder is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Why do all Halberg Rassy boats on sale have twin rudders? To make them cheaper? Don't be ridiculous.
It's like saying that a four wheel drive car is cheaper. Even engineers from Jefa Steering (who supply steering systems for anything from beneteau to Hallberg Rassy) have said that statement is absolute BS.
Smaller rudders use less material and take significantly less load than single large blades. Therefore the rudder blade is cheaper to produce and doesn't need to be as strong.
A twin helm, twin rudder system can of course be more expensive overall, especially considering a carbon helm is $3000 at least. But not necessarily.
Many boat designers are choosing to have twin rudders due to the current trend for wider and wider sterns. Which seems mostly to enlarge aft cabins and aft deck space, and less to do with sailing performance. However, some modern boats with modern, moderately wide hull shapes still choose single rudders. Take Salona for example. Very high-performance modern production boats, still use a single rudder. They claim it's for better performance. We certainly experienced their performance during the week we sailed on one. Even the Defur we used as an example in this video had a single rudder. Both systems obviously work and both have their pros and cons. It's not always about cost or performance. Sometimes it's to put in a dinghy garage or some other interior restriction.
Besides, this rant wasn't even about twin vs single rudders. It was about the lack of a very simple safety protocol that we think ALL boats should utilize. And that is compartmentalization and watertight compartments. ESPECIALLY forward of a spade rudder.
But like we said in the beginning of this rant... we're marine engineers. These are our opinions based on observations we've made. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
@@SailingUma "we're marine engineers"
Really???
Thanks for the learning opportunity. That is a veritable point for Go-Anywhere Bluewater boats.
You're calling it a settee, it looks like a couch.
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This was a wonderful explanation bulkhead science. You two have seemingly really considered all the details in this rebuild. Congrats! Can't wait to see the finished project
Don’t forget the killer whale pack that is sinking boats by ripping of rudders.
My oh my- thanks for a great lesson on “sinking” risk related to lack of water tight areas… no idea as to the risks and potential risk management options! What a marvelous learning opportunity for so many viewers!!! Thanks again
Wow, what a great "design/mod" video... I've got a smaller (B24) keel boat with a rudder issue I've been scratching my head... y'all gave me the solution I think... since I have to go into the area anyway, I think a water-tight bulkhead of maybe a box will not only supply the support, but also the emergency integrity... ☺
I remember taking my first Cost Guard Auxiliary boating safety course. Our instructors gave us a section on hull designs, construction techniques and best materials to use, best practices of building hulls and gave us examples from Bay liners to Boston Wailers. The whole class was in awe that you could easily purchase a new boat that was absolutely junk.
Guys, I understood all of this. Thank you for explaining this so well. I'm very fond of triple back up systems.
The component names that you weren’t sure of to describe attachment of a rudder to the transom of a boat are pintles and gudgeons.
Great teamwork.
I’d throw more glass on your bulkheads so you have less worries about rotting wood.
This has probably been mentioned here already, but two points:
1. The transom hung rudder is called a "gudgeon and pintle" rudder
2. Looking at that boat go down and the owner/captain apparently had time to go down, look at the broken rudder post, TAKE A VIDEO of it happening, but didn't think to jam stuffing around the hole to slow the inflow. So many times I've seen and heard of boats being stove in by marauding whales or hitting a submerged object. The skipper stuffs pillows, mattresses, life jackets, berth cushions or ANYTHING into the hole and saves the boat from sinking. I've even heard a story about using a tarp OUTSIDE the boat held on to the hull by lines running through grommets going around the bottom and tied to the toe rail or cleats.
As I recall from my liveaboard days, boats needed both an electric bilge pump and a manual bilge pump, plus bailing buckets (for surveys, insurance, pre-race inspections etc.). The electric pump was always connected to a battery (bypasssing the switches). This video is an excellent tutorial and polemic concerning watertight bulkheads and their placewment. Yes, sailors write polemics, the Pardys certainly had strong opinions about lots of things, and I recall a book of French origin which surveyed anchor designs most vigourously.
I have a 45 foot ketch and when I was looking for a boat, some kind of skeg was a critical feature. My boat has a half skeg, which means that about a foot of my three foot leading edge of the rudder is below the lower rudder bearing and can be used to balance the rudder a bit.
For me thats an acceptable compromise since it reduces rudder shaft torque significantly.
After your video I will consider to watertighten the rudder compartment though. As you said, it's an easy life insurance. Thanks for your great and educational videos :)
Probably a little late to draw attention to it but having followed last years single hand Golen Globe race, I found the modifications made for companionways quite fascinating. Their website had boat tours and tech details for all the entrants. Boats were all similar vintage to Uma. And watertight bulkheads were an entry requirement.
For our 42 ft. Alpa centre cockpit ketch my husband did a clever quick fix for the 2 companionways. Using one inch thick plank that fit the groove, he had three L grooved segments cut horizontally to replace the one piece slider. Much easier to store and very strong. We often left the top one or two out for circulation but were still well protected from the weather.
Sorry to "run on" but your video was so great, it gets a person thinking of what works and what doesn't. You look like you are well on your way to "what works". She'll be a great boat to sail.
skeg hung rudders can be balanced too, the way this is done is by having a cutout in the skeg to clear a section at the bottom of the rudder that overhangs the rudder post forwards.
And I don't know if you would count dinghies, but every one I've ever sailed has had watertight compartments (buoyancy tanks), air bags (can you guess which boat I sailed as a kid?) or a hull filled with foam.
Thank you for this video! I’ve been trying to picture how an orca > broken rudder > sunken boat. You explained it so well. That’s insane that a bulkhead in front of the rudder is not standard.
Loved your lesson on water tight bulkheads and the way boats react to water intrusion!
I have a 2011 model Gemini sailing catamaran. The rudder post are very short (around two feet I think). The boat has pivoting kick up spade style rudders that hinge up into a slot molded into the hulls. When deployed they hang down almost four feet (lots of power) but when raised (pivoted back) they only stick about six inches below the hull bottom. The posts come up at the front of the slot which is open to the stern access space which is water tight to the rest of the boat. These access lockers are usually flooded a couple inches deep.
excellent safety advice. Had a Freedom 44---- without watertight compartments. Makes my palms sweat.
perhaps underrated highlight of this episode: the Lifting Self Up Through Companionway Drama Noises courtesy of Dan and Kika.
... excellent rant ... a lot of great info included with it ... I don't sail now due to leg loss, but would definitely want to apply your ideas of compartmentalising to my boat ...
Something I didn't catch if you mentioned it, is that water bulkheads should be a similar construction schedule as the hull because if there is a breach they will experience similar pressure. This does add a huge amount of weight and probably a primary reason most production boats don't have them.
Thank you for this great explanation. I never thought about this before but now I’m wondering how A-class boats can be A-class without a watertight rudder compartment.
I have a very small boat where the bilge is supposed to be flooded to create a ballast. The bilge is watertight underneath the cockpit floor. In the front we have a watertight storage hatch. The hull is doubled and filled with waterresistant foam to make it unsinkable even it flips over (if the boat capsizes it is up in seconds). She has a long keel and the rudder is attached to the keel itself. The only way for water to flood the boat is when it’s raining or I forget to put in the cockpit drain plug 😅. We have always a bucket and a big sponge to get the water out if some gets in.
Uma will be one of the safest A-class sailboats after this refit.
Really interesting stuff and kudos for both your sense of adventure! might want to round the corners on that square hole cut in the bulkhead ... sharp corners concentrate forces... rounded corners spread the love all around!
My future boat will be a Cyber 48 and it has some water tight bulkheads in each hull. That was an eye opener how you explained all of this even though I've seen that video of the boat sinking several times. I didn't even think about how it sunk. This makes me look at things a lot closer. Thanks for sharing!
Amazing logical thinking displayed in this video guys. Sadly production boat companies call their designs blue white boats and putting their unaware customers at true great risks. You are surely the best teachers and instructors out here on youtube. Much praises for your dedicated thoughts, time and energy you both put into making, editing and post. What ever happen to the idea of followers requesting you guys designing an affordable blue water cruiser that you guys talk mentioned in passed episodes. I was hopeful that would come to fruition. Jim Rodgers
Thank you for the lessons. I appreciate how you both share your knowledge and experience!
Good rant. Great explanation of rudder types and why you'd want to isolate your rudder.