Couple DIES on Private Yacht!

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2024

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  • @Lazarov_Tweevles
    @Lazarov_Tweevles 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +689

    Just a few thoughts on the topic:
    - Put in a first reef (at least) before the sun sets.
    - Monohull: If you're wondering if you should reef... the answer is yes.
    - Multihull: If you're wondering if you should reef... it's already too late.
    - Boom-furling (or standard) main... Run a downhaul line to the head (top corner) of the main. Run it through a block to a winch. You don't have to bother winding it on the boom. Just get it down quickly (any point of sail) in an emergency.
    - Carry an appropriately sized sea anchor and/or (series) drogue. Stop or slow the boat down. Practice in light conditions.
    - For watch keepers: If you're nervous or unsure of anything, wake the Captain.
    - For owners: If you're planning a passage that you feel is above you're pay grade, hire an experienced professional and put them in complete control of your vessel. Join their crew at their discretion (try to inherit everything you can from them).
    - For delivery captains: Make it clear to owners that you are the sole final decision maker on the vessel. Give them permission to request you pull into the nearest safe port where they can dismiss you.
    * these are part of my crew briefing for every delivery over the past many decades.

    • @frankmiller95
      @frankmiller95 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

      Agreed on all points except reefing at night and the use of a drogue. At first, as crew, later as captain and and later again, as delivery crew, we never reefed until it was necessary, regardless of the time of day. When we reefed, we did so without hesitation, but also shook out the reef as soon as it was possible to do so safely for the conditions The point was and remains to make as fast a passage as safely possible, which is still the best way of avoiding problems. Drogues would seem to be a great solution, but in my many score thousands of miles at sea on innumerable different sailboats, l've never so much as seen one, much less heard of one being available or used successfully. The explanation most often provided for why this is the case it that a drogue with a hoop of sufficient diameter and strength to function effectively is simply too big to stow aboard a sailboat without being dangerously obtrusive to working safely on deck.

    • @scomo532
      @scomo532 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +28

      All very good advice. Particularly, reefing before sunset and an emergency line to pull the mains’l down. Also, I cringed whenever the narrator called the mainsheet or the preventer a “rope”. As the old saying goes, there’s only one rope on a sailing vessel and that’s on the luff of the mains’l (or fores’l, or mizzen) all the rest are called LINES!
      Also, why didn’t the Capt’n do reefing drills before leaving Bermuda?

    • @timothydunn5889
      @timothydunn5889 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      All sound advice. Thank you.🇦🇺

    • @Lazarov_Tweevles
      @Lazarov_Tweevles 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +38

      ​@@frankmiller95I appreciate your response. Please employ the storm tactics that you feel comfortable with. I'm happy that you've never found yourself in conditions that would benefit from drag inducing gear. For multihulls I prefer to carry a series drogue which can be deployed off the stern at varying lengths to control the speed while running with a high following sea. For monos I typically bring my own chute which I can use as a sea anchor or choke it smaller to use as a drogue. Many years ago I picked up a delivery of a very sleek Hinckley yawl with the owner on board. I was hired at his wife's insistence due to events that occurred during his prior year's crossing from the US to the Caribbean. He had followed a (famous) weather router's directives which led him into a nasty developing storm. He blew out his genoa and managed to drop his main. He told me that he was traveling at 18 knots bare pole (any physicists out there might want to comment on the exponential difference in impact force incurred when driving a displacement sailboat hull into a wall of water at 18 knots .. as composers to..say ... 2 knots). He had no drag gear on board so he tried towing warps (rope and chain) with little effect. That night he was knocked down three times, lost his complete electrical system, and one of his pickup crew (off a famous crewing website - with "more enthusiasm than experience") decided that he'd had enough and pulled the EPIRB. The owners next challenge was to talk the US Navy out of forcing him to abandon his vessel. --- I generally charge my clients a fixed fee with overrides for non-weather-related delays so they don't care if it takes a day or two longer. I try to "do know harm" to any of the boats I drive. My focus while cruising offshore (or flying airplanes) is to "never make the same mistake once".
      Ps .. 25 kts gusting to 30 is just a typical day here in the Caribbean trades.

    • @Lazarov_Tweevles
      @Lazarov_Tweevles 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      ​@@scomo532Don't forget the bell rope

  • @richcastellano4883
    @richcastellano4883 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +427

    I knew Carl and Anna Marie. I met both aboard their boat when they gave me a tour of their CNB as I too was considering purchasing the same boat. Carl and Anna Marie had just sailed across the Atlantic on its maiden voyage and they were very proud to show me every inch of the boat including Carls favorite tech room he created up in the bow. A sort of work bench and tool shop. He should me the in boom furling and he shared that he found it to be very difficult to manage. He said if the boom for any reason wasn’t in exactly a horizontal position the sail would rise forward or backward on the furler and get itself jammed so he rarely furled from the cockpit but instead he had a second control up at the mast so he could look up and make sure it was fueling straight. It made him nervous that someone had to go forward to the mast to be sure the furling would go smooth . He also pointed out the main sheet issue to me and said he wished that was done differently. Otherwise they were very happy with how the boat was performing and highly recommended it to me. Down below it was beautifully appointed and well laid out and Carl even opened the floor access for me so I could view the redundancy in systems and the ease of access. They were both very nice people and they loved their new life they had chosen. It was brief meeting but they were at least very happy for a time. I left with a very bad feeling about the in mast furling and the entire boom operation and I made the decision to keep my 58 Jeanneau and not go forward with the CNB. Even Carl knew that boom was an accident waiting to happen as he made it very clear to me that it worried him but he felt he had a good process for dealing with its shortfalls.

    • @hn1928
      @hn1928 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +40

      Thank you, this explains a lot.

    • @ackattacker
      @ackattacker 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +25

      Thanks for this explanation. I have crewed long distance on a 48 foot yacht with in-boom furling and found the system very nice in calm weather where everything was under control. Trying to put in a reef in heavy rolling seas turned into a goat rope nearly every time and had do be done carefully and methodically.

    • @AMERICANPATRIOT1945
      @AMERICANPATRIOT1945 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +37

      My condolences for Carl and Anna Marie. This was a horrible accident that should never have happened.
      I have never liked in mast or in boom mainsail furling. A good full batten system with lazy jacks, and Batcar or other low friction slides are a safer solution for the ocean. You are most wise to keep your Jeanneau 58. The yacht is plenty huge and sails well I am sure. A yacht like the CNB 66 is over the top for most sailors and unfortunately proved to be a super duper gorilla boat for this crew.

    • @HotakaPeter
      @HotakaPeter 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

      Thank you. You have convinced me slab reefing is the way to go.

    • @mathewdavis-adventuresandd6643
      @mathewdavis-adventuresandd6643 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      Thank you for the adding to the story.

  • @cbarnettcti123
    @cbarnettcti123 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +114

    I was so impressed with the quality of your narration that I subscribed. You speak in even, measured tones, never becoming dramatic. The explanations are detailed. The graphics are clear and helpful. Of course, I also subscribed because I love sailing.

    • @waterlinestories
      @waterlinestories  8 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      Awesome. Welcome aboard

    • @cfhello67
      @cfhello67 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Exactly the reason I subscribed too!

    • @mbbeautea6986
      @mbbeautea6986 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      I agree. I don’t know anything about boats, water, sailing, etc but this is a really important education. I’ve been a passenger on plenty of ferries, cruises & schooners but knowing about what you’re getting into when you step aboard a ship is really important! I’m in Boston so plenty of opportunities to enjoy the waters! I love the ocean more than anything but sometimes I listen to these stories and think “if god had wanted man to fly…. He’d have given him wings” ya know?

    • @seniorsirjoe
      @seniorsirjoe 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Sailing is dangerous. Improperly designed and poorly trained sailors are a hazard to themselves and to rescue persons. For over 40 years living in an area populated by sailors I refused invitations to sail numerous times because I did not trust the judgment of the sailors inviting me. I survived unscathed.
      I agree with the comments on the quality of the video. Excellent.
      I'm sorry for the passing of the couple.

    • @denizirisozbey1760
      @denizirisozbey1760 28 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Very well spoken. 👍

  • @Dryer_Safe
    @Dryer_Safe 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +90

    Tragic story.
    If I know one thing about sailing in rough weather, it's that you do not want things flailing about. Not sails, not lines, nothing. Everything must be tight and under control.
    Winds can be so powerful even a small sail can become completely uncontrollable and dangerous.
    And this boat was designed with a huge main, a huge boom, insufficient options to keep the boom under control for a shorthanded crew, and a far too long and hard-to-control main sheet. It was an accident waiting to happen.

  • @francisjcoyle112
    @francisjcoyle112 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +59

    I had similar experience surfing down 20' waves, wind was astern 30 to 35 knots. On a 47' Boat with in mast furling as we went down the waves , boat would turn and backwind mainsail, it was held with preventer but you can't get enough angle on it to prevent it from moving back and forth. Next weather report was gale conditions in gulf stream, so I rigged storm sail and tri sail. the tri sail eliminated all of the problems with the boom which was now tied off. The tri sail can back wind to either side, with no drama. This is the problem with larger boats which I was considering. All heavy weather gear. i.e. storm sails, drogues, storm anchors, rode and bridals are massive and you can get caught out there. They where very lucky and exceptional sailors all of those years, however things can go wrong in a moment, I feel very bad this happened.
    Thank you for posting so we can all learn or take something from this.
    I

  • @katsbreez
    @katsbreez 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +22

    I read the title, clicked play... and still thought they'd survive. That was a heroic effort by "John" and "Mike". I hope they know that they did everything humanly possible to save them.

  • @Icebbear
    @Icebbear 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +28

    It's always hard to see tragic accidents like this happen. Especially when they could have been so easily avoided. As a sailing instructor I teach my students to avoid heading straight downwind because it is a very unstable course and there is always a risk of an uncontrolled gybe. Particularly on such a large yacht, it is safer to sail on broad reach. The forces that build up, even when using a preventer, can hardly be controlled.
    I like the animations in the video. But the change in wind direction at 4:54 would not lead to an uncontrolled gybe. It only would do so if the sail had been on the opposite side.

    • @slippyg
      @slippyg หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yeah I clocked that too. Surely the main would've protected the gybe if indeed they were straight downwind. I expect they weren't in reality. In truth, this boat was way above their skill sets and didn't actually seem to be a very good boat at all. An old 40 year old 35 footer would've been much safer for them and actually negate the need to beg two strangers to come along to help out.

  • @Bene368
    @Bene368 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +101

    Did an Atlantic crossing on a CNB 76 last year. Big storm, middle of the night, veering winds, big gust, autopilot failed, preventer failed, crash gybe. The blearing horn tells us "All hands on deck, emergency" as the captain makes his way makes his way to the second helm to support the mate, wind turns, the mate just screams "Duck, duck duck!!" Captn immediately dives on the deck, as the boom comes flying back to port, taking out our running backstay, with the main sheet almost decapitating our captain.
    Luckly no one was injured, the rigg just suffered minor damage, preventer had to be replaced and the running backstay got pulled through the winch, melting the line.
    Next morning we met a small sailing boat, who broke their forestay in the storm. They could not maintain speed and were afraid of starving before arriving to the Azores. We supplied them with all the food we could spare and gave them our two damaged hightech lines (Dyneema, 15x stronger then steel), which they used to secure their mast. They made it to the Azores just one day after us.
    CNB 76 is not a good boat to cross an ocean, at all!

    • @kimaaboe8263
      @kimaaboe8263 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +42

      We were in the same storm in a Tayana 37, about 50nm away from s/v "Escape". Double reefed main and staysail, -with no modern gimmicks. Two person crew, hand steering for about 36 hours. Not nice, but we came out of it unscathed.

    • @paulyneskipsey
      @paulyneskipsey 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      You confirm what I already thought not a good design

    • @dusankac8055
      @dusankac8055 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +28

      I am the only crew on a Contest 67 with the same boom furling, took in 2018 new from shipyard,,when they tried to raise the sail for the first time, before delivery, they allready ruined the guide of the sail. The boom has to be at an exact height, sail completly without pressure,one man at helm steering in wind and pressing the button, another at the mast working with the winch releasing the halyard. In perfect condition is difficult if the hellsman has problems to keep it in wind.With heavy seas becomes quite impossible. I normaly sail with a 74 year owner and it happend that I found myself with full mainsail and 35 +kn wind and he got incapacitated, staying at the helm for more than 12 hours autopilot was not capable steering because of the state of the sea, just waiting what will break. I have made a modification on the boom furling ,I welded a disc on the mast side end of the furler, wich works as a guide and protection that the sail does not go to scratch on the hydraulic lines. Also if the sail does not furl perfectly it makes the furling much easier. My experience with new boats is, that now the boats are built to be beatiful. Beautiful things you should keep at your home. They are not seaworthy.

    • @StefanMochnacki
      @StefanMochnacki 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      The "Bayesian" also had in-boom furling... From contemplating the comments here, I conclude that in-boom furling is a very bad solution... yet fifty ot sixty years ago, roller furling on the boom was standard. Jiffy reefing seems much more full-proof, though I have usually tied the clew to the boom with a lanyard once the reefing was done and the boat is on the wind. I have chartered a boat with in-mast furling, which seems less prone to winding up badly. Still, any mechanisms and extrusions are inherently more prone to a very inconvenient failure than the simplest setups.
      The other day, I spent a few hours on a smallish tall ship, a three-masted staysail schooner. Everything was manual, nary a winch in sight. It's only apparent bow to modernity seems to be the use of wishbones instead of gaffs, which makes the mainsail and topsail into one sail, likewise the foresail. It has been all over the world, around the great capes, so something is being done right. Having a big crew is key.

    • @iwaswrongabouteveryhthing
      @iwaswrongabouteveryhthing 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      intense

  • @scomo532
    @scomo532 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +77

    The boat was too big for two people to handle and obviously too big for a minimum crew to deliver in the No. Atlantic. I really did not like the design for the mainsheet. Set up in the middle of the cockpit is fine for a race boat, but this was a cruising boat. I think the designer should have warned the owners early on that they should have had a smaller vessel designed or he should have broken up the rig to a ketch to make the sail plan more manageable.

    • @alanwhite933
      @alanwhite933 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Maybe smaller main and a mizzen ?

    • @VidarrKerr
      @VidarrKerr 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      It is a really terrible design. It is trying to be something it is not and the result, final design, is just dangerous.

    • @tomhermens7698
      @tomhermens7698 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      @scomo532 very right. Common sense went overboard at design/construction.

    • @Kitiwake
      @Kitiwake 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Champaigne sailors.
      Lord have mercy.

    • @tedthesailor172
      @tedthesailor172 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      It certainly seemed too big for just a couple, but on this occasion there were 4 on board...

  • @jonnorousseau3096
    @jonnorousseau3096 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +40

    I always put a second reef in the main and at least one in the headsail before dark regardless of weather conditions, I also use 16mm spectra for both my main sheet and preventer, that's on an 8 metric ton steel Stadt 34' with a Selden fractional rig, I've sailed on quite a few 60+ boats, mostly racing yachts so I am only too aware of the dangers of an uncontrolled gybe. I've never been a fan of any kind of furling main, be it in mast or boom, bat cars or even just simple slides at least allows you to dump it if need be, this is a tragic accident that could have been mitigated and a lesson for all, argument perhaps for that tried and tested simple GGR style double sheet, admittedly not ideal on a 60+ dual helm boat with central main sheet winch but safe as houses. Condolences to their families😢
    Downwind reefing is an essential skill but reefing early is a better and safer option, I pray to God Almighty as a single handed sailor I never have such unfortunate events occurring at sea, again Condolences to their families 😢😢😢😢

  • @jermainerace4156
    @jermainerace4156 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +26

    In such bad weather, undermanned, it may have been folly to try to keep sailing: they may have done much better motoring just enough to hold their direction, or if fuel did not allow this, heave-to and wait out the weather, even if that means a few more days sailing.
    I personally think that the ultimate problem stems from the size of the boat: it was simply too big for a crew of two in bad weather, and while they did have some help from the extra crew they picked up (which almost saved their lives, and probably saved the vessel) these were not sufficiently familiar with a nuanced vessel to be sailing in bad weather. The rig had to be big enough to drive the boat, and such a rig was not manageable without serious engineering compromises; the overly heavy boom, that weird attachment of the main-sheet in the middle of the cockpit (I've never seen one like that before and it immediately looked odd and dangerous to me, like 19th century levels of dangerous). It may be old-fashioned, but the engineering solution to the problem of too large a sail for the expected number of crew may have been to split the canvas into two more manageable pieces with a gaff rig. While this is complicated for two people to manage with the topsail, they could forgo the topsail when appropriate, at which point it is a relatively easy rig to handle (though I still think it would be too much boat for two people).
    At the same time it was not helpful that they were in the middle of training two crew who, although very good sailors, were not familiar with the rather nuanced vessel they were handling, in bad weather, on a long crossing, the captain without enough rest, and no one who else who knew /exactly/ how to handle the boat. They might have fared better if they delayed their passage north until the two hands were more familiar with Escape, with German commands, and with the unusual procedures.
    One other note, and it's just my opinion (take it or leave it, YMMV): if your boat has electric winches, but even the entire crew can't manage the rig without them, you are actually undermanned.

    • @jurycould4275
      @jurycould4275 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yes. The 2 unidentified deckhands killed the couple. They should be jailed honestly.

  • @kennethm.pricejr.8921
    @kennethm.pricejr.8921 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +96

    One gigantic mainsail, an extra heavy boom and a long mainsheet from the cockpit: what could go wrong?

    • @VicenteRincón-b6h
      @VicenteRincón-b6h 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      A lot con happen...

    • @paulyneskipsey
      @paulyneskipsey 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Exactly

    • @whdbnrm3023
      @whdbnrm3023 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      it can kill

    • @TootSocialTV
      @TootSocialTV 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Agreed. This was indeed a design tragedy just waiting for the right wind. Owner recognized it several million dollars too late.

  • @zacablaster
    @zacablaster 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +382

    I cannot fathom why 'John' and 'Mike' would not want their identities known. If I was looking for a crew, they'd be at the top of the list. Excellent management of an emergency situation, from constant contact with rescue to proper first aid. Those guys rule

    • @JayBee-cr8jm
      @JayBee-cr8jm 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +53

      Not getting into emergency situations is pretty important too.

    • @zacablaster
      @zacablaster 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +21

      @@JayBee-cr8jm how would you, as a crewman (not the captain), avoid this particular emergency?

    • @JayBee-cr8jm
      @JayBee-cr8jm 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

      @@zacablaster I would have checked the weather. Did anyone do that? I would have known how to operate the mail sail before setting foot onboard.

    • @zacablaster
      @zacablaster 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@JayBee-cr8jm they did. Do you know much about the north sea? It is notoriously dangerous. The forecast can't help you, it goes from dandy to deadly within an hour and that's no joke.

    • @JayBee-cr8jm
      @JayBee-cr8jm 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +30

      @@zacablaster Before I get on a strange motorcycle I ask if it's an automatic, a dual clutch or a manual. I ask if if it's got two blinker stitches or one. I adjust the mirrors and study the gauges. Before starting the machine I am well acquainted with it, its eccentricities and it's features.
      This is common sense. This didn't seem to happen in this case.

  • @falkpatt
    @falkpatt 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +98

    IMHO, the lesson here is that CNB 66 is too much boat for a moderately experienced cruising couple. Unfortunately this sort of thing is going to happen more and more because boats are getting bigger, faster and more complex. That couple could've easily been overwhelmed any time they went out on that thing.....the hull design is based on racing yachts crewed by 10 or more skilled sailors. Yes, the naval architect simplifies the sail plan a little bit for less crew, but it's sorta like putting a comfy seat, horn, and turn signals on a Formula 1 car and letting novices drive it on the street. An accident waiting to happen.

    • @daltonbedore8396
      @daltonbedore8396 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

      rich people buy exactly that type of car, too.

    • @VidarrKerr
      @VidarrKerr 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      It is a terrible design. Looks nice though....

    • @SharifSalukis
      @SharifSalukis 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      Our 38' catamaran was too much for two people. It was great in light air. But obviously too much, to the point of dangerous, once hull speed passed 15 knots.

    • @Toro_Da_Corsa
      @Toro_Da_Corsa 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Seems like these ppl had too easy of a life and thought it was all fun and games

    • @lcclark1307
      @lcclark1307 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      Bad salesman to sell a racing boat (w/o experienced fulltime crew) to two retirees who just want to cruise on a cool looking sailboat:( we had a 40’ for hubby and I and that was just right size not too big or too small. Sailing wing on wing w wind behind you we rerely did bc it’s so damn dangerous.

  • @ssenssel
    @ssenssel 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +78

    First time this video was posted I thought my ADHD kicked in and I didn't pay attention to how the couple died.. I even went back to the end to see what I'd missed. But the comment section was also confused. Thanks for posting again to further clarify.👍👍

    • @andrewseaman7012
      @andrewseaman7012 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Nobody has commented on this issue. I read somewhere that both died on the way to hospital.

    • @fahhcue
      @fahhcue 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Yeah I just made that same comment on the other video. Then went to this one to see if there was something I missed as well. He must’ve gone back and fixed it. I’m guessing he lost too much blood… tourniquet must’ve not been tight enough to cut off the blood flow completely. As far as Anna, perhaps she had severe head trauma that went untreated for too long. Maybe she had swelling of the brain or a brain bleed.. Either way it’s a sad situation and I was definitely left feeling all types of confused after the other video, until I saw there was a second one that addressed the whole situation…

    • @mymobile5014
      @mymobile5014 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I'm 10 minutes in and bored stiff so far. So much detail that isn't necessary. I wonder when it's going ton get to the point?

    • @johndough111
      @johndough111 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Wow I thought I was the only one. I was at the end of the video wondering who died. Re watched the last ten minutes of the video twice and still can't find where it's mentioned they died other than at the very end.
      Very odd formating from an otherwise great storyteller/TH-camr though.
      Edit: at 17:30 he mentions the couple are stabilized on the helicopter. Then boom at the very end. They're dead. Strange to miss the most important detail of how/when they died until the last 30 seconds of the story. It had me pretty confused since it makes you think you missed something when you didnt. But I'll give em a pass. Hes a good guy.

    • @RichardMcLaren
      @RichardMcLaren 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      "I'll give em a pass" (sic)
      How very magnanimous of you!

  • @mrl22222
    @mrl22222 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    Had a similar experience headed from the carribean to newport in a 52ft racing cat. we had lost satcom earlier and so our weather was 3 days old. we were in the same general place as they were when it went from a beautiful flat water 80 degrees of temp and 18kts of breeze from behind to a complete washboard, 5 meter seas and 30kts upwind and 38 degree temps. We put the first reef in when we saw the gulf stream interface, "just in case" but within 5 miles it was too late to do more. we tried for a second reef but quickly realized that wasn't going to happen. Ther wind had built to 40 and we were having difficulty maintaining any kind of forward speed. boatspeed was either 5kts or 20, and both were bad. and then the sleet started. we were only 60 miles from block island at this point, but it wasn't happening, so we dropped the main and turned around and went downwind. wind abated in the morning and we ended up going in at new york city the next day. had a burger on liberty island. 3 of the crew were very experienced and capable, which lead us to the #1 lesson from this trip: the wind will choose where you go and when you get there. After that I no longer will make a return flight from a delivery. We'll get there when we get there.

  • @frankmiller95
    @frankmiller95 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +73

    This is a sad story. After repeatedly re-watching the video from approximately 9.39-10.44, those seconds seem to illustrate the critical moments when everything went catastrophically south. As a retired professional sailboat captain with countless ocean crossings under sail, as well as a licensed deck officer on ships, it seems there must be critical details missing from this account. As told, there are several things that simply do not follow what would be a logical sequence of events.
    ln the following order: As experienced offshore sailors, why did the captain/owners feel the need to round up to reef (haul in) the roller furling jib? ln almost all cases, especially off the wind, this can be readily accomplished without dramatically changing the point of sail. Further, after deciding to do so, how could they have failed to immediately take in the mainsheet as they simultaneously eased off the preventer? Again, if this is indeed what happened, it was an uncharacteristically rookie blunder by experienced offshore sailors. That single compound failure appears to almost certainly be the primary cause of the series of events that cost captain/owner(s) their lives.
    Another unanswered, but almost equally critical question is what was/were the two delivery crew doing while all this was happening? lf they weren't on deck and involved in the reefing attempt, why not? Were they not called? lf they were called, but not on yet on deck, why did the captain attempt to reef short handed? While the conditions were clearly difficult, the very few extra minutes required to bring additional crew on deck would have made all the difference. An alert and experienced helmsman, observing the potentially deadly, unsecured/out of control, swinging boom, with someone in or anywhere near its arc, would have known to immediately to fall off, (return to a more downwind heading) to prevent the likelihood of exactly what happened. Although there appear to have been several other serious lapses around the same time, the single act of unnecessarily rounding up, without simultaneously securing the boom is key. The rest is immaterial and makes the story unnecessarily complicated and confusing.
    lf this seems like an overly technical and accusatory analysis, both to those involved and Waterline Stories, there is no disrespect intended or implied to anyone involved. As usual, the USCG seems to have done an excellent job under extremely dangerous and challenging conditions. l've personally avoided catastrophe more often than l care to recall, often due mostly, if not entirely to good luck.
    To repeat a favorite quote that will never become obsolete:
    "The word 'experienced' often refers to someone who's gotten away with doing the wrong thing more frequently than you have." Laurence Gonzales, "Deep Survival"

    • @dmitripogosian5084
      @dmitripogosian5084 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Further, after deciding to do so, how could they have failed to immediately take in the mainsheet as they simultaneously eased off the preventer? It sounds that this happened because one person was responsible for both ? One of the other two crew members was at the helm, as I understand, but what about the fourth one ?

    • @dmitripogosian5084
      @dmitripogosian5084 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@frankmiller95 Well, if you look at any accident, it can always be said, well this maneuver could/should have been performed safer. Think car accidents, this left turn should have been performed safely ... It is not very informative. Informative is to analyse what was the mistake if any. And for that we do not know actually enough information. Like what were the seas ? In which direction ? etc. ...

    • @jonnenne
      @jonnenne 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

      ​@@matthewmcdermit8744they literally operated the boat together. Coast guard deemed the boat unfit for further passage. No sails, no bueno. I recommend you watch the video and focus less on boosting your ego

    • @derekge5794
      @derekge5794 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Agreed, there's missing information. Also to reef, don't go straight into the wind, that massively increases apparent wind, especially on a large fast boat. You just need to head up a bit to take pressure off the main. So maybe apparent wind was 100 degrees, head up to 70 apparent (leave mainsheet and preventer as is) taking the pressure off the sail and then you can more easily reef. The headsail often can be easily reefed heading deep downwind. Sea state can make the best plans difficult/impossible though, but there is usually a way, just calm the mind and think it through. The first mistake was the big mistake, which sounded like over confidence and reliance on the weather forecast. On a crossing 1st reef before sunset, 2nd reef once weather deviates from forecast and before you think you need it. You might go a bit slower, but at least the off watch actually sleep that way.

    • @jakeroon
      @jakeroon 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@matthewmcdermit8744 seems to me they did an admirable job getting a vessel back under control, all while administering first aid and maininting commmuncations. That ultimatly did get the injured to medical services, and get the dangerous boom+sails secured. I agree with the presenter. Why were these experinced sailors not used to handle the more complicated tasks rather than having the captain and first mate take on multipule jobs at once trying to juggle?

  • @danielkarlsson9326
    @danielkarlsson9326 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

    that Boom Design gives me nightmares.
    Every cell in my Sailor and fisherman genes tell me to crawl on that deck and never stand up.
    you never want more mass beeing able to swing over a deck especially something that will swing more wildly in bad weather.
    A thicker mast may take abit of wind and will not allow as big of a sail but it will also sturdy up the hull if designed right and with modern material it is not that heavy as the old wooden and steel ones.
    And that comes from a lad who got tangled up in a aluminium mast as a kid which was not secured to the dingys hull and went under with me in tow.
    luckily i grabbed the overturned dinys centerboard and held my head up enough to breath until the adult scouts saw me and managed to free my leg.
    Still take that over getten the boom in my head any day.
    I was very lucky and i know of both family friends and neighbours who has been lost at sea getting tangled in lines and dragged under or drowned while out fishing or sailing.
    And im from Sweden which is considered quite safe by seamanship standards.
    Best regards.

    • @ufodude1000
      @ufodude1000 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      sometimes i feel like Mike Tyson up on deck. you defiantly need to be as good.

    • @jurycould4275
      @jurycould4275 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Keep dreaming.

  • @albertofourie3294
    @albertofourie3294 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +24

    That's why I do not like the mainsheet in the the cockpit! There was a similar incident on an X-yacht doing the ARC a few years ago when during a night shift change a crew member was knocked down by the mainsheet (connected to the traveler on the floor of the cockpit) and killed him!
    These in-cockpit mainsheet systems are seriously dangerous and DO NOT belong on leisure sailboats!

    • @Hoganoutdoors
      @Hoganoutdoors 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      I sailed a 20 Pacific Seacraft Flicka for 4 years, taking her Los Angeles to La Paz without an engine, and cruising the Sea of Cortez for 6 months in 2012. She had a tiny mainsail. It was sheeted to the stern rail, and even in that tiny boat, the mainsheet was a serious hazard. I ended up rigging a friction based preventer/boom brake using a figure 8 rappelling device to keep the boom under control during gybes, and I use a similar system on my Catalina 30, even though it had mid-boom sheeting clear of the cockpit.
      It's important to reef early and often. It's also important to design your reefing system to work at any point of sail, not just upwind. I've also learned to avoid sailing dead down-wind. Study your boat's polar charts, and you'll probably find that 150 degrees off the wind is optimal for reaching your destination the quickest, Yes, you'll need to gybe if your destination is dead downwind. Gybing from a a broad reach is a lot easier and safer than gybing from a dead run, and it's more or less impossible to accidentally gybe if you're paying attention.
      Keep the boat under control at all times. That's the main thing. Do not test it's limits unless you are prepared for the consequences of exceeding them. This is especially true on a cruising boat and while leisure sailing.
      The sea will root out and severely punish any foolishness. It will do so under the worst conditions. It can and does kill anyone who ignores this fact, and even some who do everything right. RIP to these sailors. They led a good life, and died doing something they loved that was totally badass. Bravo!

    • @gtsaliba
      @gtsaliba 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      They should adapt your two inventions in all boats.

    • @StefanMochnacki
      @StefanMochnacki หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Hoganoutdoors Did you beat or truck back to LA? I have done Ensenada to LA at night, but motor-sailing with a big post-race crew.

  • @jasonwright808
    @jasonwright808 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +54

    That boat was much too big for two novices. They bit off more than they could chew. Plenty of Bluewater capable yachts in the 40-50' range. They didn't need a 67' boat for just two people.

    • @jeffersondavis69
      @jeffersondavis69 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      But they had $2 million to spend so bigger it was. You're right, too much boat.

    • @davart311
      @davart311 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      Too large boat too much power to handle too much little experience too much relying on technology to compensate .

    • @amazingazblo0239
      @amazingazblo0239 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      That's what happens if the inexperienced decided to use up 2 million for a boat without experienceing properly themselves which not only is dangerous but cost them their lives as a result 😢
      Edit: am not saying they are bad but they took to the bigger size way too soon without properly getting used to sailing

  • @samknight9577
    @samknight9577 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +154

    The more I learn about sailing ,the more I think a Dinghy is the boat for me.

    • @mrno.7366
      @mrno.7366 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      😂

    • @dmitripogosian5084
      @dmitripogosian5084 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

      Oh, no, on a dinghy you need to learn how to right it up from the water :)

    • @coldwarkiwi_2nd183
      @coldwarkiwi_2nd183 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Keelboats are fun, Just a bit more dangerous if things go wrong.. So in 30kts with a gen up, Make sure nothing goes wrong and your all good :D

    • @iansenior9759
      @iansenior9759 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Best to have a smaller boat which is easy to handle and can look after itself. If the weather gets too much have bare poles and deploy a sea drogue if you have enough sea room until things settle down.

    • @elypowell6797
      @elypowell6797 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I take a decommissioned US destroyer, those things are tanks of the sea.

  • @philipwright7186
    @philipwright7186 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

    A very tragic ending. It seems likely the systems designed to make a 66 footer capable of being handled by a couple might have been the reasons for their untimely deaths. Clearly the boom and mainsheet arrangements weren't satisfactory from the skipper's perspective even in moderate conditions. You need to be ahead of the weather in terms of sail strategy, it's customary to reduce sail at night for obvious reasons, but the reluctance to do so had fatal consequences. I would also say the steering positions on a CNB 66 look very exposed, it doesn't really look like the deck layout of a serious passage maker to me, even if the boat itself is more than capable of it. Very sad, and to think that a smaller more manageable boat would likely have not caused any problems.

    • @Durnyful
      @Durnyful 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      The cockpit looked v exposed. Not my choice for passage making

  • @revolutionaryhamburger
    @revolutionaryhamburger 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +24

    I knew a couple. They were lifelong friends of my parents. They always dreamed of cruising the Caribbean in retirement. They saved and planned over the years. Finally got a boat they carefully fitted it out. They at last retired and sailed to Bahama for their maiden voyage. It was to be the first of many. They arrived safe and sound. They pulled up to the dock and the wife went to secure the lines and she slipped boat and blew out her knee and so they both flew home never to sail the seas again.

    • @peterguirguess853
      @peterguirguess853 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      They died cuz they were fighting . U NEED COHESION IN A CREW
      AT 230 IN VIDEO, U CAN TELL BOTH OF THOSE WHITE PEOPLES IS DRUNK. SHE GOT HELLA MAD, EVEN BROKE A BOTTLE TO ATTACK HIM WITH IT.
      IF SHE GOT. HELP FOR HER ADDICTION THEYD BE ALIVE TODAY

    • @awuma
      @awuma 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      One couple I knew: they finally set sail in their 42 footer, for the wife to discover she was mortally afraid of losing sight of land. Another couple: set sail down the Hudson in their fine sailboat. Anchored to ride out a hurricane somewhere around Poughkeepsie, only to drag anchor and get stuck in the muck. When getting towed out by a tugboat, the rudder stayed stuck and ripped out. Boat sank. Marriage kaput. Third couple: set sail in a fine boat which even had a bathtub in the head. While up on stands to wait out a hurricane, the boat fell over.

    • @macfarlanenz1
      @macfarlanenz1 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Don't leave it too late.....

    • @juanmanuelcobo5947
      @juanmanuelcobo5947 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

  • @xevious4142
    @xevious4142 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +28

    Have to admire John’s professionalism in trying to save the boat and the lives of its owners.

  • @thelastpirate
    @thelastpirate 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +157

    We met Karl and Annemari in Bermuda the week before this tragic accident. They were very sweet to us. Our condolences to their friends and families. I believe there is a very important lesson learned here: the old wisdom of “round up to reef” is often the incorrect move, especially in a wind vs. current situation they may have been experiencing in the Gulf Stream. The in-boom, in-mast, or slab reefing discussion is a moot point when the real problem was the SOP of turning upwind to reef. This is not just my opinion; I’ve discussed this with many sailors. John Harries wrote a great article about this accident and downwind reefing that is easily searchable on Google.

    • @zacablaster
      @zacablaster 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Thank you for sharing. Good luck and good winds to you!

    • @dmitripogosian5084
      @dmitripogosian5084 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      How would you furl the genova if you do not turn upwind ?

    • @jackchen5290
      @jackchen5290 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      @@dmitripogosian5084on a downwind course the Genoa is mostly blanked by the fully out main and is depowered. It’s fairly easy to furl.
      Agree with learning how to reef when on a downwind course, but I don’t know how works on a in boom furling main,

    • @sailingsibongile
      @sailingsibongile 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      @james... Are you talking about the main or the genoa?
      I agree with you with the genoa, but this vessels main could not be furled without being in irons.

    • @sailingsibongile
      @sailingsibongile 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

      @@dmitripogosian5084 ... Test it on your boat. Turn to a dead run and see how easy it is to furl the genoa.
      However, 25-30kts is another matter.
      But, they should have put in a reef (or two) for overnight sailing anyway.

  • @HollowFlight
    @HollowFlight 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

    Feeling like they skipped some steps. New crews (regardless of individual experience) really ought to practice maneuvers in good weather before setting out. Reef the sail. Do a hove-two. Practice a man overboard drill. Switch positions and do the drills again. It doesn't take long and you need everyone on board familiar with the vessel. Otherwise someone might not know where the jib cranks are stowed, how to turn the engine on, etc. Don't wait for the wrong moment to figure something out. Familiarize yourself with the vessel and make sure everyone else does the same.

    • @emss--dti
      @emss--dti 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Like you said: "New crews (regardless of individual experience) really ought to practice maneuvers in good weather", and, even more importantly "Switch positions and do the drills again"

  • @stephenburnage7687
    @stephenburnage7687 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +74

    The reality is that spending a lot of money on a boat isnt always the way to go. There is a lot to be said for simpler and well proven designs.

    • @scomo532
      @scomo532 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@matthewmcdermit8744 I agree, a casual walk through on the mooring in Bermuda does not pass for preparing a small crew for a potentially hazardous passage. I can’t help but think that the main should have been a traditional mains’l with jacks that flaked into a pack on the boom. Like mast furlers, boom furlers are cumbersome and can malfunction. I helped deliver a 76’ CNB along the US east coast whose main was rigged traditionally with jacks and a boom pack. With one on the helm, one person easily reefed and shook out the huge (7/8 frac rig) main.

    • @calthorp
      @calthorp 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@matthewmcdermit8744 I agree, If they were ex coast guard how come they did not know anything about 1st aid?

    • @patricklund6497
      @patricklund6497 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      great idea if you are day sailing between med' marinas!

    • @stephenburnage7687
      @stephenburnage7687 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      @patricklund6497 Money doesn't buy safety at sea. Simplicity & reliability of equipment and competency of crew does. The further you venture from easy cruising grounds, the more that is true.

    • @hn1928
      @hn1928 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I agree, traditionelle furling, lazy jacks.

  • @jammydodger1449
    @jammydodger1449 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    The research and detail you put into these videos is brilliant. Thanks for keeping us all on the edge of our seats with these stories. From UK.

  • @twisterwiper
    @twisterwiper 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Excellent recount of events. Thank you.
    Those two shipmates were absolute heroes despite the tragic outcome.

  • @JohnBobRoger
    @JohnBobRoger 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    I run a real simple preventer system on my 35 footer (similar to the IMOCA boats) off-wind of course but also when beating (acts like a kicker). I use cabin winches and clam cleats. Also I discovered something I call "reverse irons". Haul the sail whilst going downwind....The boom is something requiring constant control...IMHO.

  • @robertmarquis8986
    @robertmarquis8986 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

    When I was a younger sailor, I got hit by the boom while teaching. I installed a boom brake called Walder after this incident. Many accidents were avoided thereafter!

    • @jurycould4275
      @jurycould4275 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Exactly. The couple was killed by the 2 deckhands that pretended to be experienced sailors.

  • @larrymeyer2917
    @larrymeyer2917 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +23

    Sorry but experienced sailors would have resorted to dropping main in much less conditions. AND the Skipper should never allow a single person to deal with 2 high loaded lines in 20kts of wind, even less so in 6m seas. Spending $2M on a yacht today and you don’t have reversing winches for main sheet and preventer? Maybe $20k extra for absolute control rather than manual release, possible to even remote operate. Downwind sailing in the dark is dangerous with out big seas, the boat has 2 forestays, frigging designer should have included 2 genoa’s ( on the 2 electric furlers)with a dip pole capable of 3rd reef poling the lee sail in full downwind condition, NO main sail at night in those conditions. Or simply 2 storm jibs with engine running at maybe 1200RPM for emergency correction with rogue wave, remember they sailing downwind 6m seas, can easily push stern of boat so be prepared. Auto pilot but hand on wheel ready and close to AP control. Keeping a vessel straight downwind in such conditions is not easy in dark so AP is on high performance mode. Hey, if you don’t feel comfortable, spin boat and go upwind close haul until conditions improve with reefed sails ensuring boat is weather helm. Sad ending, please never risk night sailing with too much sail, big waves and limited experience, boat without sail will go down wind, you need to control action waves and main on the stern of boat, can’t afford boat spinning, could even role with those waves.

    • @richardcastellano9119
      @richardcastellano9119 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      There in lies the problem. Both of them knew dropping the main was a concern. They both were very aware it was difficult to furl due to the design. It would frequently furor poorly and get stuck. So I’m sure they considered that option but deemed it dangerous. True answer is always reed early. I always reef in late evening and never sail under full sail at night. Squalls and weather always surprise you. Best to be prepared.

    • @StefanMochnacki
      @StefanMochnacki หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Rather than beat, just heave to. The difference in comfort is amazing. I wonder whether "Escape" was incapable of it? Or a long-forgotten tactic in this era of getthereitis?

  • @LabiaLicker
    @LabiaLicker 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +77

    Thanks for adding the closure about what happened post rescue

    • @runeviking6249
      @runeviking6249 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Sailing and experience starts with a sailing dinghy and later increases the size gradually. It is not recommended to sail over a 30-40 foot boat if you have no experience with a sailboat. In strong winds and waves, sailing downwind is a high-risk affair. Autopilot becomes useless.

    • @LabiaLicker
      @LabiaLicker 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@runeviking6249 Yep. Yacht clubs are all ways looking for new hands. A great way to learn.

  • @Sekhmet1982
    @Sekhmet1982 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    I had a third reef installed on my mainsail and I installed a wind-vane autopilot on my boat before going around the Atlantic solo for the first time. I often put in one more reef than necessary, and always reduced sails before night fall until the morning, even though it reduces speed. I always thought, if I was sailing with a more experienced sailor, they would go crazy because I'm too cautious and it makes the ocean crossing longer. But after seeing this, I'm thinking maybe that's the right way to go after all, that and the wind-vane autopilot. Especially between Bermuda and Nova Scotia.

  • @Hulalulatallulahoop2
    @Hulalulatallulahoop2 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Thanks for the re-upload....I watched the first video last night but will also watch this one for what happened to the couple who died and the aftermath. I enjoyed the first video so many thanks!!

  • @jafsgbagsf3727
    @jafsgbagsf3727 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Sad story, awesome work by the 2 crew. The power of loaded up sheets is hard to imagine, reef early.
    Respect the comment to have a separate line to the head of the main to be able to crank it down in anything. I am adding this today. As a ma and pa cat couple we hate the main, have removed the first reef altogether and rely on our 2 furling headsails for any downwind work. And, of course, the 2 Yanmar sails.

  • @SkylerinAmarillo
    @SkylerinAmarillo 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    I went for a day sail on a small sail boat on Lake Travis near Austin, Texas. It was a rental boat, nothing remarkable, not too big. I think we had 5 or 6 aboard. Weather was nice. It was a large lake, no waves, of course. But as it was a lake, the wind wasn't predictable. We were all sitting low, when suddenly the wind shifted and we jibed and the guy sitting across from me fell over unconscious. I thought the boom hit him, but it was just the sheet somehow. He was knocked out cold and took several minutes to wake up. He was still very groggy about an hour later at the hospital.
    I can't even imagine the forces involved in a North Atlantic gale. Note to self: If I ever buy a boat, I'll be sure to have confidence in every part and every action needed before venturing out away from shore. Heading out to sea in a boat you don't fully trust is a bad idea.

    • @emss--dti
      @emss--dti 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      On a 38 footer, I had to go forward to free a jib sheet that got caught in 20 knot wind. That jib sheet hit me in the face with surprising force! I can only imagine on such a big boat in a storm.

  • @lyedavide
    @lyedavide 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    Handling a sailing vessel is no easy task. I used to go sailing in a recreational catamaran with a couple of friends in my youth. I honestly can't imagine how difficult it must have been for the crew in such terrible weather conditions. I feel that the yacht was simply too big to be handled by just two people. Poor crew and resource management just added to the already stressful situation that no one onboard was expecting nor prepared for. The North Atlantic ocean is not a good place to start learning the ropes. I feel this was a preventable accident. RIP to the husband and wife.

    • @daltonbedore8396
      @daltonbedore8396 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      they were over three years into full-time sailing that yatch at that point. the issue wasn't experience by the owners i dont think

    • @jimbeam7160
      @jimbeam7160 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Confident people are usually incompetent and don't know it. Look out for over confident people who don't fully appreciate the foreseeable dangers. It's obvious the Captain didn't even foresee the problem of reefing at night in high winds and a challenging sea state. Stunned that this woman lost control of the boom?@@daltonbedore8396

  • @gordonpeden6234
    @gordonpeden6234 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    Nicely explained, diagrams etc. Clear, concise, succinct. Well done John and Mike, Things can go South very quickly. So sad, RIP Karl & Anna-Marie.

  • @lubberwalker
    @lubberwalker 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +103

    They designed this massive boat from the water up for two, why wasn't it a ketch?
    Shorter masts, shorter booms.
    In-boom would have been fine then.
    The other flaw was having a winch and mainsheet, for a vast rig, bang in the middle of the cockpit, half of which was a forward "lounge" instead of a safe doghouse/roof/winch/traveler.
    This boat was designed for wineglass sailors, not oceans.

    • @MrReesh
      @MrReesh 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

      I am also of the opinion that the placement of that mainsheet was a very bad design choice.

    • @macdoctor145
      @macdoctor145 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

      Good observation. I hope the yacht design industry learns from this, but I’m afraid most people who can afford these kind of yachts probably want as much power as possible from their sails and wouldn’t listen to sound advice. I’ve heard it said that lawyers die more in private aircraft than any other type of person because they think they know it all and will not listen to other peoples advice When it comes to flying conditions

    • @lubberwalker
      @lubberwalker 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      @@macdoctor145 Agreed. I don't like to speak I'll but..... I think ego played a big part.
      Why was the owner skipper when he had a more experienced crewman aboard?

    • @rolfpiotrowski4325
      @rolfpiotrowski4325 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Genau das ist das Problem!
      Es ist das gleiche wie mit den modernen, hochmotorisierten Autos!
      Es wird heute eine Menge technischer Schwachsinn verkauft und mit elektronischen Helferlein dann für den Normalverbraucher bedienbar gemacht. Aber wehe wenn die Elektronik einmal nicht funktioniert..!😱
      Es gibt Gründe dafür warum sich erfahrene Weltumsegler immer
      wieder für klassische Systeme entscheiden!
      Sie sind einfach durchdacht von Generationen von Seeleuten und Bootsbauern! Sie funktionieren! 🤷‍♀

    • @feelincrispy7053
      @feelincrispy7053 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@lubberwalkerbecause he’s the owner? lol
      He should have trained the other guys quickly. Take 15min

  • @NomadSurvivor
    @NomadSurvivor 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    Well very sad ending to this ,,,,,, However I will add my thoughts. First and what would have saved them is KNOWING their conditions accurately. After the 1st squall was the time to REEF and STAY that way until daylight. When the CURRENT Weather forces you to reef , it's already dangerously too late. They got lucky on the first squall , and at night should have been far more cautious of it happening repeatedly.
    After all that the 2 mates who were unfamiliar with that vessel , and likely the owners didnt know this either ,, the CNB 66' with its "in boom" furling has no type of traditional Topping Lift. This makes one think that the Duo-Winch Main sheeting system is the only means of control. However, the Vang has a Rapid Release mechanism at the Clew end , and once released can be secured to either the Port or Starboard rigging base to relieve the
    " hot boom " situation. I know it's easy to say that , but not being there and actually in that situation, who knows how successful that attempted solution would be.
    So I suppose the primary lesson for ANYone to take from this tragic event is
    REEF EARLY
    REEF OFTEN in repeated or unknown weather and squalls. It is far easier to raise your sails than reduce your sails. In my 40+ years of sailing and watching others , all too often reefing late leads to bad endings , although rarely fatal.
    God Bless them for living their dreams to the fullest.
    Sail On Folks.
    SV Hydra
    SV Jaz
    Chris & Stella

    • @charonstyxferryman
      @charonstyxferryman 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I would call you comment for hindsight.
      None of us know the exact weather conditions, and weather can suddenly deteriorate rapidly. Moreover, weather predictions beyond 3 days are almost always total garbage.

    • @MalcolmLambe
      @MalcolmLambe 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Exactly. Too late in reefing. And when they did...the skipper goes below? Wtf

    • @NomadSurvivor
      @NomadSurvivor 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@MalcolmLambe I know right, probably like this " Ok if reefed the main , gonna head below and change my socks and make a sandwich "
      lol 😂
      j/k

    • @Durnyful
      @Durnyful 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Too much sail up leads to chaos... if offshore a particularly v v bad thing to let happen

  • @vincent7520
    @vincent7520 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

    As usual an excellent summary of the events with no frills; no sensationalism.
    Then again it is quite surprising the skipper didn't tell an experienced crew members the idiosyncrasies of the boat. Any new crew member must be given the full picture of the boat, even if the rigging and operational mode is traditional : each skipper has his / her preferences and ways of doing things (I have mine) and everybody must adjust to them : reefing at night in heavy weather is not the moment when you should figure out where is posted the main halyard, how a preventer etc…
    This is why spending half a day sailing close to shore for a shakedown and adjustments with new crew members is essential. You sail back to port for dinner, have a good night sleep and leave the other days when tide; currents and wind allow. Simple? Yes but barely done except in sailing schools and who wants to be considered as a student or see one's own pride and joy taken for a sailing school vessel?
    Nonetheless it seems to me this disaster could have been avoided altogether.
    Then again, let's respect the victims and hope viewers will lear a lesson from this sad story.
    This story calls also for another remark. Why choose a 20m boat to sail as a couple? A 13-15meter boat is more manageable and the forces involved are easier to handle…
    And again a huge mainsail to handle with a huge boom on a 20 m boat would simply scare me stiff if I had to handle the boat alone or almost. A divided sailing plan would have been much easier to handle than those monster spars which can be properly handled by a numerous crew…

    • @maxflight777
      @maxflight777 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      5:14 the graphics for the uncontrolled gyre don’t accurately show the wind direction

    • @peterguirguess853
      @peterguirguess853 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@maxflight777u blame that for the death. What a fool u are.

    • @johnmcgovern3806
      @johnmcgovern3806 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Bad summary in regard to associated erevilant photos and clips

  • @forrestallison1879
    @forrestallison1879 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    This is why I have a boom brake and I'm done rigging preventers.

  • @ctradio4416
    @ctradio4416 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    Just wanted to say you have an fantastic voice and presentation style

  • @suivezlemir
    @suivezlemir 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    intersting stories as always Skip. And I can see the efforts made to improve the production quality, especially the diagrams / animations to make it easier for us earthlings with no boat experience. Kudos.

  • @abtechgroup
    @abtechgroup 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

    Why wouldn't a $2M boat have a traveler arch for the safety it provides?

    • @jakeroon
      @jakeroon 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +23

      they sell these boats as "performance" and the look/styling plays a big part. Also they want to maximinze sail area while lowering the center of gravity, thus having the boom as low as possible. Works great for a large crew on racing yatchs. Perhaps not the best idea for leisure sailors.

    • @hcos8139
      @hcos8139 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Those charter like yachts are garbage that's why

    • @TheBelrick
      @TheBelrick 24 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Its a gimick. They sell the boats on max speed which requires large sail areas. But none of that really matters unless racing. What matters is comfortable sailing speed. Meaning reduced sail. Who wants to bang about in 6m seas? So often these boats are permanently at a single reef or more. Forget performance, think safety and comfort.

  • @leonaessens4399
    @leonaessens4399 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    I remember Riley Whitelum of La Vagabonde talking about in-boom furling recently and why he disliked it. He and Elayna encountered in-boom furling on a boat they sailed for a week or so while waiting for the new boat to be completed, and chose to not have it on their new boat.

    • @frankmiller95
      @frankmiller95 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      While extremely appealing in concept, in practice, in-spar reefing and furling systems have yet to be perfected. l'm as unenthusiastic as anyone about going forward to the mast in heavy weather to wrestle a reefing cringle into the hook on the gooseneck, but for now, it's the one sure way to reef effectively. lt's also very satisfying when it's done because you know the boat is no longer overpowered and trying to kill you.

  • @Kroggnagch
    @Kroggnagch 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    As tragic as the stories are, F*CK I love your videos!! Theyre so well put together and you dont pussyfoot around any detail. Very thorough, VERY thorough. You dont just tell us "heres where they were, heres the line that killed them, please leave a like", you give us the function of the device in question, reasoning behind why things happened. Theyre wonderfully done.. the videos... thanks for them.

    • @waterlinestories
      @waterlinestories  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thanks. That’s precisely what I aim for

  • @kennelson3848
    @kennelson3848 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Excellent presentation!

  • @mike6669-d2j
    @mike6669-d2j 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    What I don't understand is how such an expensive and large boat can't be reefed from the cockpit!

    • @StefanMochnacki
      @StefanMochnacki หลายเดือนก่อน

      The angle between mast and boom must be exactly right (90 degrees or so) for the sail to roll up properly. This means the sailor operating it must be looking at it near the mast, controlling the height of the boom. I once chartered a Bavaria 32 with in-mast furling, but IIRC the main was loose-footed so their was no issue (although I had to manually crank it at the mast). With in-boom furling, the main is on a track on the mast, so the boom angle becomes critical. I would describe it as nuts. @scomo532 above relates a very relevant experience: jiffy reefing with lazy jacks on a CNB 76 was just fine.

  • @allanbillings3587
    @allanbillings3587 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    This channel is top-notch, i have learned so much !!

  • @GrumpyOldMan9
    @GrumpyOldMan9 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    First reef rule: when you first think about reefing, you SHOULD reef !!

  • @charonstyxferryman
    @charonstyxferryman 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    The *Boom of Death* is unfortunately a thing which happens too often.
    I had been hit by a boom an a small yacht (L23) too. I was lucky it was only a superficial scratch, but it hurts.

    • @LITTLEDANCERSADHU993
      @LITTLEDANCERSADHU993 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      I was out sailing just the other day,took a novice out, i all ways leave the main stowed ans just use the head sail when i have non sailors aboard ,unless it is champagne sailing conditions.

    • @charonstyxferryman
      @charonstyxferryman 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@LITTLEDANCERSADHU993 That's a really good idea.
      My first day on a sailboat, the old salts (+50 years experience) decided that we was going to sail in light winds (max 2 to 3 kn of boat speed), so things are happening more slowly.
      I was hit by the boom years later in gnarly weather: About 1.7 meter, 6 sec waves, and 18 kn gusting 25 kn winds.

    • @LITTLEDANCERSADHU993
      @LITTLEDANCERSADHU993 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yeah , in my opinion,the boom is the most dangerous bit off kit on the boat, having said that, a sailboat is only as safe as how it is bieng conducted by the skipper.@@charonstyxferryman

  • @delilahboa
    @delilahboa 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    Thanks for update on what happened…..the open ocean terrifies me but I LOVE your channel ❤

    • @beverlyreiner-baillargeon6205
      @beverlyreiner-baillargeon6205 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      The ocean is not a place I'm going on , too!! 👍😂👍😂

    • @Kitiwake
      @Kitiwake 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      There's a big difference between inshore sailing and blue water cruising.

  • @allaboutwaves
    @allaboutwaves 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    the "uncontrolled jibe" animation ist wrong, the wind would need to turn exactly to the opposite site for the boom to swing around.

    • @StefanMochnacki
      @StefanMochnacki หลายเดือนก่อน

      A wave can cause an uncontrolled jibe.

    • @allaboutwaves
      @allaboutwaves 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@StefanMochnacki that‘s not what I meant. The wind direction in the animation changes from the back to the right, which would only take pressure out of the main sail hanging left. For the boom to swing around and become dangerous, the wind would need to come from the left, not from the right.

  • @dfharris03
    @dfharris03 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    This is a tragic and terrible loss. I've been sailing for 40 years and think that the older vessels (admittedly smaller) in which sail controls were manual and directly controlled at the mast are much safer for several reasons. First, they are very reliable since they are not dependent on electricity which doesn't mix well with water. Second, they are less prone to get hung up or jammed. Third, they actually have better sail shapes (if mast furled) due to the ability to have battens. Today's boats are also much flatter in the aft sections which not only makes them more uncomfortable in a seaway bu,t while their initial stability is higher,r they are prone to slamming and broaching more readily than more traditional cruising yachts. While it's true the new designs have the comforts of a condo one might want to think twice before taking a condo offshore.

  • @WayOfHaQodesh
    @WayOfHaQodesh 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Rest in peace to both your souls. Truly tragic...

  • @JimNobles-gv4ky
    @JimNobles-gv4ky 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Dragging innocent rescuers due to negligence is just irresponsible and dangerous..

  • @yakacm
    @yakacm 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

    Ahh I was wondering how they died, I mean it was pretty obvious they died of their injuries, but the previous version did feel a bit open ended. Just wondering if you'd ever do a Q&A type video? I'm not usually interested in that type of thing, but I'd love to know were you're from, I can't place the accent although it sounds South African or somewhere else in Africa, but I also remember you said in 1 of your videos that you had lived in England. It would be interesting to hear about your career too.

  • @mikenagy938
    @mikenagy938 28 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Oh this video is painful to watch. The biggest mistake this couple made was trying to sail a boat too big for them to handle. Even with the extra men it was too big. Bigger does not mean safer. The second problem was the swinging boom. In the seventies Hal Roth wrote a book on how to sail around the world and in it he describes how to rig a dual boom vang with four to one purchase. It works well as I found out in 35,000 miles at sea single handed. Even if going straight into the wind you can lock your boom in the center of the boat so it doesn't swing at all. But it all comes down to having more money than brains when choosing a boat.

  • @Turin_Inquisitor
    @Turin_Inquisitor 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    First practical lesson on a boat: ALWAYS WATCH OUT FOR THE BOOM

  • @marjolijnvanderhoeff2272
    @marjolijnvanderhoeff2272 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    We sailed a lot of miles and also had to deal with heavy weather. We had a 30 ft. s.v. and we were just the two of us. We never took any risk, and our main rule was to avoid any discomfort, for us and the boat. First thing we did, was take away the main sail when things got nasty. This is only when you have enough space to move around. Leave just a ‘handkerchief’ of foresail for necessary speed and steering.

  • @jiefflerenard1228
    @jiefflerenard1228 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Very good narration, intelligent explanation keeps it from becoming boring, congrat.

    • @waterlinestories
      @waterlinestories  7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thanks, I really appreciate that

  • @kimmccabe1422
    @kimmccabe1422 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    John and Mike, the world salutes you two humble heroes-a rare combo❤

  • @akseakayaker
    @akseakayaker 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    It’s generally a wise idea to reef a bit at night because you cannot see the squalls coming.

  • @CyberSystemOverload
    @CyberSystemOverload 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I know nothing about boats but if I had that kind of disposable money to get one for a RTW voyage it sure as heck would not be a sail boat. Gimme two big diesels with massive props and belching exhaust stacks with flappers. Chugging slowly and reliably. This "swinging boom" - feature what a nightmare. Tragic story, they were finally realizing their dream. But they were in over their heads when the storm hit. Can we give a huge shout out to "John" and "Mike" who never left the couples side and risked their own lives to do all they can to help them. I know they must feel so gutted but if they read this i want to say - you really did you best, you went above and beyond. The rest was out of your hands. Wishing them blue skies and smooth seas. Excellent video and presentation as always WS!

  • @kosmamoczek
    @kosmamoczek 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Thank you for the reupload.

  • @tedthesailor172
    @tedthesailor172 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Excellent narration, many thanks for sharing. I don't understand why they opted for such a huge yacht when they're just a couple - vanity, perhaps...? It's all very well designing everything to work from the cockpit, but when things go wrong you've got to put your oilies on and go up top, and that's a long, wide platform to be scrabbling around on in a crisis. I think a 50ft centre-cockpit ketch would've been a better choice. Not as efficient, but smaller, more manageable sails and less distance to reach either mast. And a modern 50-footer can still be a quite a glamorous vessel, with ample storage for a long haul...

  • @stephenburnage7687
    @stephenburnage7687 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    So, it looks as if the primary cause of the uncontrolled jibe was that the preventer had been eased off (or completely released), at the worst possible time?

  • @geofftayner3559
    @geofftayner3559 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +34

    You can tell how experienced the other guys were with their decision to sail away from land in an extreme emergency. I'm not an experienced sailor, but it sounds like these 2 highly experienced sailors were the only reason the boat didn't sink. It is too bad that the boat's captain did not give these 2 more training on the unique features of the boat. I'm ballparking it here, but from the description of events it sounds like Karl was running a 24+ hour day with no sleep. It gets harder and harder to not make mistakes with each passing hour in a situation like that. The other part of the accident in my opinion was trying to build too large of a sailing yacht that could still be manually controlled like that.

    • @frankmiller95
      @frankmiller95 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      Any experienced, well qualified offshore sailor can come aboard almost any properly set up offshore sailboat and become sufficiently familiar with the gear layout within a few hours. At that point they should to be able to perform almost any normal job on deck. Obviously there are exceptions, but they're rare.

    • @christianfournier6862
      @christianfournier6862 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      ⁠@frankmiller95= I beg to differ.
      My opinion is that there should be a formal briefing on the safety devices AND the peculiarities of the boat for any sailboat voyage of some importance with a new crew. I know that the safety part is always done by serious skippers, but peculiarities are almost never described thoroughly enough.
      I am 79 and now a landlubber, but I have several decades of experience as skipper on a 65 footer sloop. Once I was a crew member on a 50 foot sloop (custom-built in NZ) crossing from Annapolis to Great Abaco under an excellent & most experienced skipper; at the end of an eventful cruise (we had lost our propeller) we were tidying up the boat.
      I came across a row of books in the living quarters which had been messed up by the heaving and rolling; while tidying up the books, I inadvertently grazed an innocuous switch which was protruding on the panel along which the books were placed. Simultaneously, I heard a whirr... which I could neither locate or understand.
      Fortunately, the skipper was a few paces away: he jumped on the switch and heaved a sigh of relief. This switch was the command of the keel-lifting hydraulic system, and - this system having been under-engineered at installation - there was no 'end of stroke cam': the keel would have forced its way straight through the deck!
      PS: A common delusion of skippers is that it is not necessary to explain in detail the boat's safety features to 'supernumerary' crew members. During the 1998 Sydney-Hobart race, the old ketch “Winston Churchill” developed a hull leak and the first crewman to identify it was a 'guest'. The switch for the drainage pumps was a few inches off his hand, but he did not know this. By the time the skipper was informed, the water level was already too high, the batteries were flooded, the engine would not start and the boat was lost. __ .

    • @BillSikes.
      @BillSikes. 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      The wind dictates which way a sailing vessel will go, the skippers have no choice but to work with it, it's been like this ever since men first put to sea in ships,
      In the circumstances of this video, the skipper and 2nd mate had no choice but to "run before the wind"

    • @BillSikes.
      @BillSikes. 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@matthewmcdermit8744
      Sailing as close to the wind is actually called "Beating" or sailing "close hauled" and I'd like to see you get a line around that 20ft boom in 30 knit winds with it's attendant sea state, stay sailing on those lakes, you're clearly not fit for sea 🙄

    • @BillSikes.
      @BillSikes. 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      *knot

  • @bobcornwell403
    @bobcornwell403 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    Because someone asked, I will state what I consider a cutter rig to be. A cutter must have at least two headsail (often called jibs). But that is not enough. There are plenty of double headsail sloops.
    To be a cutter, the vessel must have its mast stepped further aft than a sloop, often near the mid-length of the deck, or near that.
    The vessel in this story was set up as a masthead, racing sloop. This required not only a relatively large mainsail (roughly 40 to 45% of the total sail area) but also a very tall one.
    The problems with this are two:
    1.) The sail has to be shortened down by quite a distance to significantly reduce its area.
    2.) The square footage of sail per length of boom is much greater. This, on top of the lesser inertia of the boom, means it can swing at great speed. A longer boom, although heavier, has much greater inertia for its weight, so would accelerate slower
    For a boat, this size and an amateur crew this small, this boat was an accident waiting to happen.
    Also, while sailing downwind on an open ocean, with this small of a crew, the mainsail should have been furled, with any hint of coming strong winds.

    • @frankmiller95
      @frankmiller95 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Tell that to professional delivery crews who routinely and safely make transatlantic or Pacific deliveries with only two three crew and rarely douse the main except in strong gales. Modern sailboats need the main for stability, control and power, even it must be triple reefed down to the size of a postage stamp. Insufficient sail area, especially with the main can often be as dangerous as too much.

    • @charonstyxferryman
      @charonstyxferryman 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I wonder if a ketch could had been a better choice.
      Sailors who are helming a ketch, often doesn't use the main sail. The mizzen sail, being much smaller, would be easier to work with in all weather conditions.

    • @bobcornwell403
      @bobcornwell403 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      ​@@frankmiller95
      Normally, I would agree. But with this particular boat an crew, I have to disagree.
      First, this boat did not have a professional crew on board, even though at least one of the crew was a professional. Unfortunately, the skipper wasn't. And, with a boat this big with this kind of sail and reefing setup, you need a skipper and crew that can act as a single unit. With this boat, this was sadly not the case. The skipper and crew didn't even speak the same language. And the crew was not made familiar with the operations of the boat. Had it been my boat, I would have gotten this crew familiar with the sail handling as soon as it left the dock.
      Second, when sailing downwind, the mainsail can become a huge liability, especially when the wind gets strong. If the wind switches directions and the boat yaws the wrong way, the mainsail can be slammed over to the other side. In squally conditios, wind directions can change by a considerable amount.
      With the greeness of the crew and the predictable problem with reefing quickly and the direction the boat was sailing relative to the wind, would have sacrificed some speed and either taken the main down completely or preemptively reefed it quite drasically.
      It is the job of the skipper to anticipate things going wrong, and almost expect them to.
      On the 17 ft boat I used to own, I almost never went straight downwind in any kind of wind strength. I did it once to frighten a skydiver I had on board who thought he was such a badass. The boat rolled, pitched, and yawed like a mechical bull. When I notice my passenger getting a bit pale, I changed course to a downwind tack. And the boat settled down.

    • @jonnorousseau3096
      @jonnorousseau3096 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      A cutter in its truest form has the two headstays parallel to each other but with the inner stay bearing the load and it's fixed at the stem with the masthead/outer headstay attached to a bowsprit not load bearing, these days anything with two forestays is a "cutter" which is absolute rubbish, you can have a fractional cutter rig for example, a solent rig, a slutter which is half way in between the two. This boat had a main driver performance rig and at 60+ would have a very big main which you would absolutely not be able to handle even with 4, I've raced 4 spreader rod rigged open 60's with running backstays and centre main sheet winch, dual coffee grinders for the 75 ST primaries and it is no joke sailing a boat like that even in 15 Kn. They probably over extended themselves with the size and power of the vessel in all honesty

    • @frankmiller95
      @frankmiller95 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@charonstyxferryman No. lt's easier, but not better for technical reasons to complex to get into here, but here's a two word hint: balance and power.

  • @jochenheiden
    @jochenheiden 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    I appreciate the clarification!

  • @beverlyreiner-baillargeon6205
    @beverlyreiner-baillargeon6205 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    Great story teller and great stories he tells. Thanks for enlightning us to the true, even though sad, ending.😉😉😉

    • @flattrackeroz
      @flattrackeroz 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yes, I agree, I don't get to watch these stories often, as I listen to them while driving. But he is by far the best for explanation and constant clarity with his voice. If i was to study anything I would ask him to narrate my study lists.

  • @sailingsibongile
    @sailingsibongile 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Hi... Thanks for documenting this tragic event. It's so sad it cost lives.
    For me, apart from comments made about skipper's decisions, it highlights the danger of running a preventer as opposed to a boom brake.
    A boom brake would have made the movement of the boom way more controlable, and would not have needed to be eased off when rounding up.
    All in all, the violent moment of the boom would have been significantly reduced.
    After that... Yes, I agree with some that the skipper's decisions to allocate the toughest jobs to only him was a mistake.
    Sadly, Annabelle should not have been allowed to be happy with the "relaxing zone" (2:13). It ended up with her getting thrashed by the mainsheet.
    All crew should be capable with boat handling.

  • @stan4d1969
    @stan4d1969 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    It was said they were "ahead of schedule" - what schedule? Why were they using the engine? What's the hurry? Reef the damn sails!

  • @ArrDee49
    @ArrDee49 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I used to sail, having learned in a 20' gaff rigged timber hulled whaler. I got boom bashed and thrown overboard. Thankfully it was in enclosed waters. I continued to sail, with that in mind.
    The sea is a fickle thing, calm and serene then horrifying. I have since gone to sea and crossed oceans in all seastates, in multi screwed, steam turbine, steel hulled ships; it was no less dangerous. The sea doesn't care. Experience in those seastates does.
    Taking an inexperienced crew on such a voyage is just asking for trouble.
    The crew were lucky....... Or were they?
    Fair winds and following seas, Karl and Annemarie.

  • @stevemcnair-wilson6106
    @stevemcnair-wilson6106 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I find this heartbreaking and so flawed were their action that it disgusts me!
    Almost all long distance cruisers, with solo or dual crews are either ketches or yawls for a reason. This yacht was mighty, but severely overpowered from he start, but that is really not the issue. If you are overpowered you drop the sails and/or cut them free. In the open ocean, away from land, sitting, battened down under bare poles, streaming a sea anchor is as safe as it gets, so why did they not do this. And as for running downwind, with a restraining strap on the boom with a view to stop a gybe appears almost suicidal. If you can't control the beam, then the boat will stay broached in the trough of the waves. Uncomfortable if not positively dangerous. I have sailed in everything that the North Sea can throw at you, in dinghies, racing yacht and cruisers, and the secret to safety lies in planning and preparation!
    ...and what the hell were those experienced crewmen doing?
    Its enough to make you cry, seeing now needless this tragedy was!

  • @ppapdddar6159
    @ppapdddar6159 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Did I understand this correctly? One of the lines, the main sheet, killed two people?
    I mean, I can understand a hit by a swinging boom. But, a line? A whiplash can kill you, I guess.

  • @sailingbrewer
    @sailingbrewer 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Sounds more like an under skilled crew in an oversized boat. Money can buy many things but experience and knowledge can't be bought. I watched a+50' boat spend 30 minutes trying to side tie on a 200' dock in a light crosswind. It was embarrassing to watch. That couple should have been in a mid 20's day sailor learning to handle a boat

  • @marine919
    @marine919 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Excellent narration! Putting the main sail away before darkness would have lost miles, but it may have saved Anna and Carl. Sad story.

  • @invisiblerevolution
    @invisiblerevolution 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    A happy couple....
    who quit the RAT RACE 🏁 and lived their dreams! 🙏🏾
    And passed away together ❤ THEY LIVED LIFE!
    Ps. And John & Mike did their part well. 🙏🏾

    • @lbgstzockt8493
      @lbgstzockt8493 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      Thats true, I guess I would rather die on my dream sailboat on a journey few ever take, than in some hospital after having worked for 50 years.

  • @awuma
    @awuma 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    A very sad story, condolences to all who knew them. There are many issues here, though a more experienced skipper and better prepared crew would almost certainly have been safe. The most glaring issue is obviously the mainsheet, which appears to have only a single loop, an inverted "gun tackle" (5:28), unlike the different boat's setup at 10:27 . It was not strong enough to prevent it from breaking ( 11:20 ) in a series of uncontrolled gybes. I see no cleat, only the self-tailing electric winch at 5:28 . A second issue is that they did not have accurate detailed knowledge of the weather, and did not reef in time. Of course there are all the issues mentioned by the narrator and by commenters here, but the two above are the ones which struck me immediately while watching the video. I'm amazed that the boat did not get dismasted with that massive boom swinging freely about, but the crew did manage to secure the boom before abandoning ship. There are more detailed accounts of this tragedy on the Internet, findable via a search engine.
    This kind of boat is probably fast enough to avoid bad weather if the navigator has a detailed weather forecast. There's a many-decades-old debate among cruisers: slow heavy bullet-proof boat to survive the weather, or fast light boat/multi-hull to escape the weather. In any case, it was perfectly capable of taking the weather it ran into, but the crew were not. One could say "skipper" rather than crew, but perhaps all sailors need to take a few lessons from aircraft pilots regarding Crew Resource Management. The traditional autocratic-subservient skipper-crew relationship needs modification. This is a concept which has only been properly developed over the last thirty to forty years, after a series of airline disasters, and has significantly helped to make flying much safer than it was. CRM is an integral part of flight training today, and should be part of sail training too.
    One idea: perhaps this kind of mainsheet system should have an automatic, fast slack take-up, so that there is always some tension applied to the mainsheet. This would prevent a loose mainsheet from sweeping over the deck (and/or cockpit). It would also act as a boom brake. That would require a special kind of controlled pawl (ratchet) winch, engaging and disengaging the ratchet as needed. For such mechanised, electrified boats, that should not be impossible to manufacture. But in my opinion, all such complexity is getting away from the intent of sailing, especially when I think of all those who have circumnavigated in small boats with no mechanised assistance other than perhaps an auxiliary motor and electronic aids.

  • @ufodude1000
    @ufodude1000 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    how many times do we need to tell captains and crew to set reefs at dusk?

  • @alexjackson936
    @alexjackson936 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I can see why they don’t want their names put out there. They may have done an amazing job, and the couple certainly had no chance to make it without them there. The sting of giving it all and still not being able to save them I imagine is one of the hardest pills you could ever have to swallow. I pray they found peace and comfort in knowing some things are just beyond our control even if you do everything right.

  • @thamesmud
    @thamesmud 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Bad design for a short handed blue water yacht. Its better to sacrifice some performance and have a divided sail plan, a ketch or a schooner.

  • @keeganmarrs6639
    @keeganmarrs6639 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    There’s no wind in the trough of a 20+ ft/ 6meter swell. The boom can swing. Especially if reefed…if it’s already heavy. This is why a 3 point block system on a main boom is super important. The main boom cannot jibe

    • @keeganmarrs6639
      @keeganmarrs6639 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I single hand a double mast schooner in heavy wx often…I am a commercial fishing vessel.

    • @keeganmarrs6639
      @keeganmarrs6639 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      50ft

  • @AltaMirage
    @AltaMirage 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +21

    Professional sailor here. Your wind angle position for the uncontrolled gybe is.. seriously wrong. The wind angle would need to be forward of the boom on the OTHER side, being the Port side on a Starboard tack (boom out on port side). Also, reefing an in BOOM furler does NOT require "tying to the boom" as you suggest. Just no. Also, 35 knots is NOT a storm force wind. It is a simple gale. A wind of that force WILL NOT generate "Eight meter waves". Just no.

    • @macdoctor145
      @macdoctor145 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Maybe they got those stat’s wrong when they were making the video.

    • @AltaMirage
      @AltaMirage 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      @@macdoctor145 A lot of things are very wrong with this video. It irritates me that people like this produce videos with such little actual knowledge. Trading off other peoples misfortune but with little real usefulness or correct information.

    • @cristoforopassaro2219
      @cristoforopassaro2219 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      From the description, the wife had difficulties working the main sheet. How she got injured is unclear. The husband then abandons the helm (autohelm I hope) but during his attempt to attend to the wife, he gets hit with the mainsheet as it breaks or possibly the mainsheet deck block causing him to trip and break his legs. The crew member trying to get the jib in then abandons that action to help the husband and wife. The remaining crew member tries to steady the boat by turning dead downwind. In a sea, with no mainsheet attached to the main, the main would or could jibe without restraint on a dead downwind angle. Very dangerous. It would have been better to go to a broadreach so the wind would press and control the main. He might not have been able to control the boat properly because the genoa was not furled. To gain control, the foresail needs to be either furled or reefed, then the boat can be turned to weather (close reach) to reef or furl the main in a controllable and safe manner. The issue is the unfurled genoa.

    • @MrDxxdx
      @MrDxxdx หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yes, also the man was called Volker. Bad research and no idea of sailing

  • @TimScheid
    @TimScheid 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I have never turned on the engine and gone head to wind to reef. This seems to me an odd strategy as the main has only to luff to reef it. Close hauled to close reaching on the jib allows maintaining steerage under sail with the main luffing and then reefing. I do know the boats I've sailed on with in mast and in boom furling have been at times problematic in the worst case scenarios, with yacht owners treating them with special vigilance to prevent jamming. Therefore- if you have either main furling option and it is prone to jam when overloaded, it behooves you to reef early. We also almost never sail dead downwind. It is not as safe and slower than sailing a zigzag of broad reaches...

  • @CapitalismSuxx
    @CapitalismSuxx 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Just discovered this upload.... again? Watched it yesterday but now I'm hoping we get some info about the owners fate.

    • @johnnunn8688
      @johnnunn8688 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      The owner and his wife died. It’s in the video 🤷‍♂️.

    • @Teqnyq
      @Teqnyq 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      ​@@johnnunn8688i think it's been reuploaded to further clarify things.

    • @CapitalismSuxx
      @CapitalismSuxx 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@Teqnyq Yeah I noticed! We were quite a few very confused watchers yesterday lol

    • @Teqnyq
      @Teqnyq 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @user-yi3yx2fn7g guess I'm lucky to be late this time round 😂. Anyway, the conclusion felt random. I thought I'd missed key bits of info in the main as I heard the conclusion.

  • @Matt-e4x
    @Matt-e4x 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    In mast furling DOES require upwind to furl

  • @letian162
    @letian162 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I had a 12 m sailboat and as a SECURITY MEASURE, NEVER, NEVER sailed her straight down wind, I always sailed broad reach. The bigger the boat, the bigger the danger and damage in case of sudden wind shift. One can break the boat's shrouds and mast if the boom swing violently from one side to the other. This is poos seamanship (and boat design).

  • @houseofsolomon2440
    @houseofsolomon2440 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Great presentation ~
    Thank you!☆

  • @SerbanOprescu
    @SerbanOprescu 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    My blood curled while watching this story. Step by step, my heart sunk.

  • @Dr.rothmann
    @Dr.rothmann 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    R.I.P. the story make my sad 😢
    Thanks for sharing so other, like myself, can learn for this..
    With a 68ft flagship and only 2 person on board it's so important.

  • @catherinesecula5287
    @catherinesecula5287 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    The boom vang does normally help to reduce the violent boom uncontrole movement, and some very efficient boom reterner, are designed for big boat like this , not just " ropes " ..surprised that this beautiful boat was not equipped with a better boom retener system

  • @paddymckeown6320
    @paddymckeown6320 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    In emergency situations you have to get your priorities right. The boom was a lethal weapon and should have been secured first. Instead it continued to wreak havoc and prevent the crew from managing the situation. I am surprised that John and or Mike did not take control of the situation and deal with the issues in the order of importance. I have spent half a lifetime at sea and have encountered many critical situations - thankfully none of those were fatal.

    • @siltee9983
      @siltee9983 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Exactly. The waterline storeis analysis in very biased and it does not add upp. Leaving the boat without control for a loooong time does not sound like the right call. Also when weather kept deteriorating why didnt Jack and Mike wake the captain and suggest a 2 reef. Instead they waiting until the situation was much more difficult. And this same pattern happened both with the first and the second reef

    • @frankmiller95
      @frankmiller95 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@siltee9983 Any good captain will leave standing orders to be notified immediately in any situation where the watch captain has questions. ln addition, a good captain will be so attuned to his/her boat/ship that they will awaken immediately and investigate if the movement of the hull due to sea state or wind changes in any way. l've observed it as crew and done it, myself, as captain, more often than l can recall, and l have a pretty good memory for those things.

    • @siltee9983
      @siltee9983 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@frankmiller95 Not talking about the captain. He might have been bad or good. But the fact that the ”experienced sailors” two times failed to take action in notifying the captain when the boat was overrigged indicates to me a lack of experience. For experienced sailors this goes without saying…. Experienced sailors dont just sit there waiting things to turn bad.

    • @calthorp
      @calthorp 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I was amazed it did not bring the mast down if it was swinging around like the story says

    • @frankmiller95
      @frankmiller95 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@calthorpAn out of control boom is unlikely to dismast a vessel without repeatedly striking the shrouds or locked running backstays while full of wind, which almost never happens for reasons too technical to explain here. ln any event, according to the story that did happen in this situation.

  • @johndarwen2845
    @johndarwen2845 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    We would have fitted a Boom brake so this couldn’t happen. Have used a Boom brake to a 40 footer and Dufour 56.
    Saved us so much from damage and danger.

  • @jodywade5617
    @jodywade5617 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    There is no rope on a SV, its called line or sheets.

  • @chrisoneil8459
    @chrisoneil8459 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    They were very inexperienced.
    Why would you ever bring the boom aboard…close reach square up boom with spar so furling works all while preventer and sheet stabilize the boom….tragic example of what is happening in the “cruiser world”
    I hope people and boat builders advertising boats “easily handled by a couple”learn from this tragic avoidable incident.
    My condolences go to family and all involved.

  • @ashtondempsey6082
    @ashtondempsey6082 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    This is almost a carbon copy of the Platino loss. A large pleasure sailing craft with minimal crew, caught out by a combination of conditions and heavy equipment. In both cases, uncontrolled gybes that destroyed control lines and left a massive boom clearing the deck.
    It makes sobering reading and caused us, coastal sailors on a 10m keeler, to review our equipment practises and training.
    The Platino report is available on line and I strongly recommend reading it in full.

    • @awuma
      @awuma 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      The Platino report is super detailed, and explains everything very well. A copy is at the ORCV site. That tragedy illustrates the "Swiss Cheese" model of midshaps very well, with a series of technical factors contributing, and had any one not been present, the disaster would probably not have occurred. I think it illustrates the inherent weakness of the dependence on advanced technology in yachts, multiplying the holes in the Swiss Cheese and increasing the probability of a chain reaction of failures leading to disaster. Platino is a boat very similar to Escape, and the mainsheet arrangement likewise proved to be deadly (converted from an earlier, safer configuration). Even though the causes and conditions of the uncontrolled gybes were different, the consequences were the same. The forces acting on such vessels are enormous, and the hardware and technology appears to be inadequate to handle them when things start to go wrong, exacerbated by human error.