Paul, as a seasoned pharmacy technician, I'd be willing to expand my role in the pharmacy. However, most techs would argue that we'd need more pay. I don't think a lot of companies would be willing to compensate what's needed for our increased level of training.
I have wondered and expected this to happen for years. Why not get a CNA/pharmacy tech certification that takes a year to do like in a tech school? This video is everything I knew would happen. Sigh. I am glad I left when I did. I think very highly of you and your videos. You are methodical and have lots of integrity. You are also eloquent. I really wish the best for you!
The 4th development in the pharmacy technician's scope of practice is the advent of pharmacy technician residencies (look up Cedars Sinai) which will be training out "super techs" in the future to displace hospital pharmacists. The negative trend for pharmacists is not just a retail thing, this is very much a hospital thing as well because why pay a hospital pharmacist $50+/hr to sit at a desk and verify orders when you can hire "super techs" to do the same thing at a $30/hr rate? Just wait for the publications demonstrating no differences in patient outcomes among pharmacist-managed patients vs. pharmacy technician-managed patients and you're going to start seeing many institutions start eliminating pharmacist jobs altogether.
Karmen You are assuming that time spent doing a program is correlated with economic value brought to society which is obviously not the case. If spending a buttload of time in school is correlated to a higher income or job title, then explain to me how someone with a bachelor's degree in engineering makes more $ than someone with a PhD in music? Also, a pharmacist does not have "8 years of training," they have 3-4 and it is idiotic to think that your undergrad degree is relevant to pharmacy let alone healthcare. In that same "8 years," a pharmacy technician will have had 8 years of WORK EXPERIENCE in pharmacy so they will have a lot more knowledge about pharmacy than some new grad pharmacist with no work experience. Add the residency on top of that for clinical pearls training and your glorified technician will be much more valuable than some new grad pharmacist.
Karmen And that is exactly what I'm saying; pharmacists are soon not going to be needed in any setting at all because they have nowhere else to tie their value to once dispensing becomes automated. You clearly have not been following the trends in the hospital pharmacy job market due to covid - pharmacists have been permanently furloughed left and right because they are expensive overheads that are seen as "nice to haves" but not "essentials" to a hospital...
For the prescribing of Naloxone by techs and not pharmacists, I think it’s because the retail sector wants to cut costs and make more profit because pharmD makes way more than techs. Not a good outlook for pharmacists for sure.
I feel like there are some pharmacy technicians that could safely give immunizations. Once someone is trained and does it numerous times, it is very operational and does not require advanced esoteric clinical knowledge. In my opinion there is room for an advanced technician position, and most of us know experienced competent pharmacy technicians that would thrive with the challenge. On the other hand, some people are just not cut out for that even if they are good technicians. A final thought is what do some of these laws accomplish? Narcan and IMZ/tech changes will not improve the stats quo of retail pharmacy practice for the customer or at a systems level quite like other legislative changes (i.e. reimbursement mechanism overhaul that captures quality and clinical services).
If retail is dead and there are not enough residencys for students now. Its even harder for Pharmacists who have graduated before Clinical Pharmacy gained popularity. What are some of the best transitions for older grads? Thanks for the great content!
I think you have good points. Having technicians perform non-clinical tasks to free up pharmacists for clinical tasks increases efficiency to the extent that you need fewer pharmacists to handle the clinical tasks typically seen in a pharmacy such as counseling, but being clinical should be and is slowly becoming a lot more than that. It has always been my goal to get my techs more and more non-clinical responsibility to the fullest extent of the law and push for expansion on that law. I run a small town pharmacy and I’m the only pharmacist. It is ideal that I have more time to be clinical with their added duties and reflects on safe and effective treatments for my patients. We serve over 1200 patients regularly. If I were to be “clinical” with all of them (evaluate their lab work, choose the next step in their diabetic regimen perhaps with a CPA in place, look at their nutrient depletions, perform and review a pharmacogenomics test with them, etc.) there’d be enough work for 3 pharmacists for a long time and 2 pharmacists forever. It’s about expanding on what pharmacists are reimbursed for and using their clinical knowledge and capabilities to a greater extent, and in order to do that technicians need to be able to perform all non-clinical tasks. This will always happen with a pharmacist on-site as there would be too many careers ruined and it would be unsafe for the patients. There’s a lot of elderly that need the face to face communication and even the young will one day appreciate that more.
And I’ll add that if you figure one pharmacist could perform all clinical tasks their education would make them capable of, each pharmacy pushing out 200 scripts a day would need at least 1 pharmacist taking care of those patients (as is my case) and each pharmacy pushing out 800 per day would need at least 4 or 5. There’s growth to be had in what pharmacists do. We are allowed to do a lot but there’s not the pay incentive for all of it…. Yet…
Hi there! I’m a current P2 in Idaho and there are A LOT of cool things pharmacists can do here! I agree, technicians are getting more and more responsibilities but that’s to allow the PharmD to focus on patient care, counseling, and prescribing. Here in Idaho, certified technicians and interns can take phone orders, transfers, and give vaccines. My pharmacist is always busy despite our technicians having these capabilities. Also, in Idaho, Pharmacists have prescriptive authority not only for Narcan but smoking cessation products, rescue inhalers, diabetic supplies, strep throat, uncomplicated urinary tract infection, and some others. With this new authority, technicians will need to step up their role because the pharmacist will be visiting with patients and even prescribing their meds. The future of retail is definitely expanding in Idaho!
Hi Paul , I am a 4th year pharmD student . I am your fan and been watching your videos. I was wondering if you can make video on how to excel rotation or how do you prepare to study for the Naplex licensure ?
It's videos like these that make me look at pharmacists different. I appreciate the knowledge but it seems as though A LOT of pharmacists look at techs as "less than" but there are plenty that don't care about status and treat techs equally. Having pieces of paper doesn't make you better than the next and quite frankly I'm almost appalled at these disgusting comments. As techs we work hard for our titles especially if it's something you enjoy, we get paid little to nothing to deal with BS from not only patients but pharmacists as well that think they're better than. Honestly, I've met some pharmacists that have had absolutely no formal hands on training and have had no clue even what to do sometimes, but y'all like to discredit techs not realizing without us there is no pharmacists, I personally don't know how pharmacy school is but I can tell you being a tech is stressful as well if not more stressful and that's going to make our job duties alot more stressful administering immunizations. All I'm asking pharmacists is please put some respect on our names and don't have that better than mentality.
In California, anyone can walk into a pharmacy and purchase Narcan no questions asked ! Over the years, as a pharmacist in charge, I’ve signed off 40-50 applications for clerks to become pharmacy techs and I think they had to work 1500 or 2000 hours in a pharmacy, that’s it ! One more mention, for the most part, I’ve always worked, got along and became lifelong friends with my pharm techs and assistants. I just wanted to say that signing off for a tech application, there was not a single question of any required schooling or education required to become a pharmacy tech, not even a third grade education is required ! !
I am AGAINST pharm techs administering vaccines. All they need is a high school diploma or equivalent. A solution would be hiring a RN who will do the immunizations. This is helpful because it will open more RN jobs and put less burden on the pharamacist.
RN have a completely different skill set. RN's have advanced HANDS ON patients care and assessment skills. It wouldnt make sense to utilize them only to give a shot here and there. Maybe Nurse Techs but not Registered Nurses.
I'm a tech and giving shots it's not that hard it's been a big help for the pharmacist since they have other duties then to deal with giving covid vaccines
If this is true then us pharmacy techs better get paid more because we do enough already as it is having all of thos other stuff added on would call for a pay raise 100%
@skidals13 as is I already know I should have a chunky pay raise! I’m a level 4 tech in IL which means I’m board certified, certified in CPR/AED/First Aid, administering immunizations have become 100% a tech responsibility & I am certified to counsel patients with new medications………. Sadly, I make a $3/hr less than the person running a McDonald’s drive thru. The pay cycle for advanced technicians needs to drastically improve. Taking on basically all pharmacists roles is leaving me depleted & yet still living beneath the poverty line. Pay up or resume the tasks back to the pharmacist!
Not even close. Registered Nurses are more on par with Registered pharmacists. Pharm Techs have trade school education. If anything they might be closer to LPN's.
With all the mistakes I keep on fixing for technicians everyday; for just simple logics, I wonder how things will be like to let them be on their own? Who will have the liability? We already overwhelmed with tasks and metrics and yes having technicians role increase will help relieve us for what we should be doing as clinicians but not to eliminate a COMMUNITY pharmacist completely (dead)
Virtual verification. The tech has a special box at production and takes high Def photos of medications. Techs bag it and everything so the pharmacist can spent more time on patient care.
In Sweden You will propably maintain your current wages not changed for next two decades working there in pharmacy. Sweden is vreally very small country. Poland is four times bigger in population and saturation and downfall of pharmacies happend in less than 10 years. You will be a clerk working in an old-fashioned shop. Tolerance and openness looks good on pictures. But you still have better chances as female from obvious reasons.
Paul, as a seasoned pharmacy technician, I'd be willing to expand my role in the pharmacy. However, most techs would argue that we'd need more pay. I don't think a lot of companies would be willing to compensate what's needed for our increased level of training.
The push for enhanced responsibilities for technicians is obvious.......... companies think that pharmacists are too expensive
I have wondered and expected this to happen for years. Why not get a CNA/pharmacy tech certification that takes a year to do like in a tech school? This video is everything I knew would happen. Sigh. I am glad I left when I did.
I think very highly of you and your videos. You are methodical and have lots of integrity. You are also eloquent. I really wish the best for you!
My technicians would never want to give vaccinations
Then corporate will find those who will. Phlebotomist make $15 an hour....they might work their way over as pharmacy techs.
@@joeb5183 good point
If they get paid more they will
The 4th development in the pharmacy technician's scope of practice is the advent of pharmacy technician residencies (look up Cedars Sinai) which will be training out "super techs" in the future to displace hospital pharmacists. The negative trend for pharmacists is not just a retail thing, this is very much a hospital thing as well because why pay a hospital pharmacist $50+/hr to sit at a desk and verify orders when you can hire "super techs" to do the same thing at a $30/hr rate? Just wait for the publications demonstrating no differences in patient outcomes among pharmacist-managed patients vs. pharmacy technician-managed patients and you're going to start seeing many institutions start eliminating pharmacist jobs altogether.
Karmen You are assuming that time spent doing a program is correlated with economic value brought to society which is obviously not the case. If spending a buttload of time in school is correlated to a higher income or job title, then explain to me how someone with a bachelor's degree in engineering makes more $ than someone with a PhD in music? Also, a pharmacist does not have "8 years of training," they have 3-4 and it is idiotic to think that your undergrad degree is relevant to pharmacy let alone healthcare. In that same "8 years," a pharmacy technician will have had 8 years of WORK EXPERIENCE in pharmacy so they will have a lot more knowledge about pharmacy than some new grad pharmacist with no work experience. Add the residency on top of that for clinical pearls training and your glorified technician will be much more valuable than some new grad pharmacist.
Karmen And that is exactly what I'm saying; pharmacists are soon not going to be needed in any setting at all because they have nowhere else to tie their value to once dispensing becomes automated. You clearly have not been following the trends in the hospital pharmacy job market due to covid - pharmacists have been permanently furloughed left and right because they are expensive overheads that are seen as "nice to haves" but not "essentials" to a hospital...
Karmen it’s already happening for physicians being replaced by NPs and PAs in IM specialities and primary care
Oh man. What's going to protect the technicians in their expanding roles?!
For the prescribing of Naloxone by techs and not pharmacists, I think it’s because the retail sector wants to cut costs and make more profit because pharmD makes way more than techs. Not a good outlook for pharmacists for sure.
I feel like there are some pharmacy technicians that could safely give immunizations. Once someone is trained and does it numerous times, it is very operational and does not require advanced esoteric clinical knowledge. In my opinion there is room for an advanced technician position, and most of us know experienced competent pharmacy technicians that would thrive with the challenge. On the other hand, some people are just not cut out for that even if they are good technicians. A final thought is what do some of these laws accomplish? Narcan and IMZ/tech changes will not improve the stats quo of retail pharmacy practice for the customer or at a systems level quite like other legislative changes (i.e. reimbursement mechanism overhaul that captures quality and clinical services).
from what I here a lot of techs are leaving the field since minimum wage with increasing thire roles is not worth it
If retail is dead and there are not enough residencys for students now. Its even harder for Pharmacists who have graduated before Clinical Pharmacy gained popularity. What are some of the best transitions for older grads? Thanks for the great content!
Transition into a different profession.
Hi Paul, When do you estimate this takeover will occur? Years or perhaps further?
The state I live in is very conservative in changing rules regarding healthcare. I don't think they will ever let techs administer immunizations
They are in the state of Indiana.
I think you have good points. Having technicians perform non-clinical tasks to free up pharmacists for clinical tasks increases efficiency to the extent that you need fewer pharmacists to handle the clinical tasks typically seen in a pharmacy such as counseling, but being clinical should be and is slowly becoming a lot more than that. It has always been my goal to get my techs more and more non-clinical responsibility to the fullest extent of the law and push for expansion on that law. I run a small town pharmacy and I’m the only pharmacist. It is ideal that I have more time to be clinical with their added duties and reflects on safe and effective treatments for my patients. We serve over 1200 patients regularly. If I were to be “clinical” with all of them (evaluate their lab work, choose the next step in their diabetic regimen perhaps with a CPA in place, look at their nutrient depletions, perform and review a pharmacogenomics test with them, etc.) there’d be enough work for 3 pharmacists for a long time and 2 pharmacists forever. It’s about expanding on what pharmacists are reimbursed for and using their clinical knowledge and capabilities to a greater extent, and in order to do that technicians need to be able to perform all non-clinical tasks. This will always happen with a pharmacist on-site as there would be too many careers ruined and it would be unsafe for the patients. There’s a lot of elderly that need the face to face communication and even the young will one day appreciate that more.
And I’ll add that if you figure one pharmacist could perform all clinical tasks their education would make them capable of, each pharmacy pushing out 200 scripts a day would need at least 1 pharmacist taking care of those patients (as is my case) and each pharmacy pushing out 800 per day would need at least 4 or 5. There’s growth to be had in what pharmacists do. We are allowed to do a lot but there’s not the pay incentive for all of it…. Yet…
Hi there! I’m a current P2 in Idaho and there are A LOT of cool things pharmacists can do here! I agree, technicians are getting more and more responsibilities but that’s to allow the PharmD to focus on patient care, counseling, and prescribing. Here in Idaho, certified technicians and interns can take phone orders, transfers, and give vaccines. My pharmacist is always busy despite our technicians having these capabilities. Also, in Idaho, Pharmacists have prescriptive authority not only for Narcan but smoking cessation products, rescue inhalers, diabetic supplies, strep throat, uncomplicated urinary tract infection, and some others. With this new authority, technicians will need to step up their role because the pharmacist will be visiting with patients and even prescribing their meds. The future of retail is definitely expanding in Idaho!
Hasn't hit our city....yet our store was just hiring for pharmacists our long time head pharmacist retired for good this time
Hi Paul , I am a 4th year pharmD student . I am your fan and been watching your videos. I was wondering if you can make video on how to excel rotation or how do you prepare to study for the Naplex licensure ?
It's videos like these that make me look at pharmacists different. I appreciate the knowledge but it seems as though A LOT of pharmacists look at techs as "less than" but there are plenty that don't care about status and treat techs equally. Having pieces of paper doesn't make you better than the next and quite frankly I'm almost appalled at these disgusting comments. As techs we work hard for our titles especially if it's something you enjoy, we get paid little to nothing to deal with BS from not only patients but pharmacists as well that think they're better than. Honestly, I've met some pharmacists that have had absolutely no formal hands on training and have had no clue even what to do sometimes, but y'all like to discredit techs not realizing without us there is no pharmacists, I personally don't know how pharmacy school is but I can tell you being a tech is stressful as well if not more stressful and that's going to make our job duties alot more stressful administering immunizations. All I'm asking pharmacists is please put some respect on our names and don't have that better than mentality.
🙌 took the words right out of my mouth, how can they expect respect that they aren't willing to give.
As a 20+ year tech, I must say without us there are pharmacists, but without pharmacists, there absolutely are no techs.
Thanks for sharing this video--super informative. Wondering how you feel about compounding pharmacies.
Thank you so much for this video. I'm writing a business strategy report and this is awesome info! 👍
In California, anyone can walk into a pharmacy and purchase Narcan no questions asked !
Over the years, as a pharmacist in charge, I’ve signed off 40-50 applications for clerks to become pharmacy techs and I think they had to work 1500 or 2000 hours in a pharmacy, that’s it ! One more mention, for the most part, I’ve always worked, got along and became lifelong friends with my pharm techs and assistants.
I just wanted to say that signing off for a tech application, there was not a single question of any required schooling or education required to become a pharmacy tech, not even a third grade education is required ! !
I am AGAINST pharm techs administering vaccines. All they need is a high school diploma or equivalent. A solution would be hiring a RN who will do the immunizations. This is helpful because it will open more RN jobs and put less burden on the pharamacist.
RN have a completely different skill set. RN's have advanced HANDS ON patients care and assessment skills. It wouldnt make sense to utilize them only to give a shot here and there. Maybe Nurse Techs but not Registered Nurses.
I'm a tech and giving shots it's not that hard it's been a big help for the pharmacist since they have other duties then to deal with giving covid vaccines
If this is true then us pharmacy techs better get paid more because we do enough already as it is having all of thos other stuff added on would call for a pay raise 100%
@skidals13 as is I already know I should have a chunky pay raise! I’m a level 4 tech in IL which means I’m board certified, certified in CPR/AED/First Aid, administering immunizations have become 100% a tech responsibility & I am certified to counsel patients with new medications………. Sadly, I make a $3/hr less than the person running a McDonald’s drive thru. The pay cycle for advanced technicians needs to drastically improve. Taking on basically all pharmacists roles is leaving me depleted & yet still living beneath the poverty line. Pay up or resume the tasks back to the pharmacist!
Hey Paul, I’m a student ! What’s the best way to get in touch with you ? Email?
Lmao. Pharmacist technicians are turning into Registered Nurses with all the immunizing stuff.
Not even close. Registered Nurses are more on par with Registered pharmacists. Pharm Techs have trade school education. If anything they might be closer to LPN's.
Don't disrespect RNs.
Techs Taking new 1s over the phone will never 👎🏽 happen in California!
100 percent correct!!!
i work at a mail order & do a ton of counseling
With all the mistakes I keep on fixing for technicians everyday; for just simple logics, I wonder how things will be like to let them be on their own? Who will have the liability? We already overwhelmed with tasks and metrics and yes having technicians role increase will help relieve us for what we should be doing as clinicians but not to eliminate a COMMUNITY pharmacist completely (dead)
That's in your country.
Flu season will undoubtedly be crazy this year
Ur right. Along with the whole Covid 19 stuff. 2020 is weird af
How would a pharmacist verify rxs remotely?
Electronically
Virtual verification. The tech has a special box at production and takes high Def photos of medications. Techs bag it and everything so the pharmacist can spent more time on patient care.
Um, us in the tech industry enabling them to do so..
notice 1 company having 900 store closures? predictions coming true!
I have seen this happen in real time!
I guess it's time for pharmacist to start working harder at expanding their scope of practice.
If I were a pharmacy school, I would bridge with a PA school
But isn't there already a saturation for PAs?
I make so much as an independent pharmacy owner. 🔥 🔥
Lmao
I wanted to shift to Sweden I have completed my Mpharmacy in india is there any suggestions that u can give to me
In Sweden You will propably maintain your current wages not changed for next two decades working there in pharmacy. Sweden is vreally very small country. Poland is four times bigger in population and saturation and downfall of pharmacies happend in less than 10 years. You will be a clerk working in an old-fashioned shop. Tolerance and openness looks good on pictures. But you still have better chances as female from obvious reasons.