Warframe | Don't Stack Acolyte Arcanes With Serration | BUT WHY ?

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ธ.ค. 2023
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ความคิดเห็น • 261

  • @Damocles1337
    @Damocles1337 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +278

    problem: you need damage to build up stacks, you need stacks to build up damage

    • @thimovijfschaft3271
      @thimovijfschaft3271 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +70

      Yes like let's say you were doing high level circuit and you lose all your stacks, you'd like to have a bit more stability when ramping up damage rather than dealing next to nothing. This is where mods like serration come in.

    • @InnocentiusLacrimosa
      @InnocentiusLacrimosa 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

      Yeah and the Merciless stacks are only 4 seconds anyhow. On secondaries we do not have this problem you described as we can just use something like Cascadia Flare for fast 480% base damage boost. On primaries either just slot base damage also or use something like primary dexterity and get the base damage from melee kills witth glaive prime or something.

    • @technoviking2415
      @technoviking2415 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      Use a bane

    • @Jayxe
      @Jayxe 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +23

      Solution: find 1 or 2 weak fodder enemies

    • @miro-kfbeatassociate3538
      @miro-kfbeatassociate3538 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +50

      @@technoviking2415 I don't wish to have to remember to switch out bane mods every new mission I start.

  • @ScorchedIce
    @ScorchedIce 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +62

    Funnily enough, after years now of having replaced serration with arcanes, I find myself going back to slotting both into my builds because depending on the stacks feels so bad on lots of weapons.

    • @waliedsalam2487
      @waliedsalam2487 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      I think Leyzar makes a good point to have no more than two sources of flat damage on a given weapon build

  • @maxineshideout852
    @maxineshideout852 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +85

    considering they never tell you this outright this is very useful to know, which is why i like the differentiation in path of exile with increased and MORE damage on items as one is additive and the other multiplicative.

    • @aspen8774
      @aspen8774 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      They want you to keep watching them

    • @Henrex2000
      @Henrex2000 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      The problem is you can't know which buffs stacks additively or multiplicatively with each other without looking up online

    • @noahedenborg4221
      @noahedenborg4221 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      ​@@Henrex2000at least they show bane mods with an x which they should change for with roar since it's also like a bane mod

    • @joemartin7451
      @joemartin7451 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      actually both games will have read/watch wiki and guides online anyways. WF does that by providing as little info to its mechanics as possible. and POE does it by using terms that sound similar but they have different calculations.
      i remember the famous chart made on reddit for explaining how hp leeching works and what different nodes do to it.

  • @VikendGaming
    @VikendGaming 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +86

    I'm with you here regarding Bane mods. I really don't like using them because I never know what I am gonna be fighting next. The ONLY time I'd consider using them is if there is absolutely nothing else I could add to the build to make it better (which still hasnt happened yet).

    • @technoviking2415
      @technoviking2415 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      OK so tell me what does more dmg than a bane? I'll wait.

    • @rodrigoferreira4027
      @rodrigoferreira4027 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +68

      @@technoviking2415 having fun

    • @zer0rama572
      @zer0rama572 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +18

      ​​@@technoviking2415they are not saying it doesn't do a lot of damage.
      What they are saying is that it doesn't make sense because we don't have just one enemy type, most of the time we fight different types.
      And unless U make different builds or have time to change your build your not going to care what you fight.
      Plus it's not like we have only 10 weapons where we can just take our time and make builds for each weapon.
      De needs to make a Baine mod that is for every faction(Universal) but a lil less damage

    • @piplupxpp
      @piplupxpp 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +32

      @@technoviking2415mfs just don’t wanna put banes on their guns
      Banes shouldn’t even be in the game i feel like it’s not even worth my time to change it every single time bro

    • @technoviking2415
      @technoviking2415 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @zer0rama572 he said he would use them if they make a build better, they do.

  • @ragtop63
    @ragtop63 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +36

    One big note:
    Hunter Munitions scales off the weapon’s modded base damage. It is not affected by the “multipliers” provided by elemental mods or physical damage mods.
    I realize that Hunter Munitions isn’t typically used for its damage but as a synergy for viral. However, it’s important to note that if you have a low status chance / high crit chance weapon and you’re using Hunter Munitions to add DoT, it’s in your best interests to have mods like Serration (Amalgam Serration, because more sprint speed is always better) on your build.

    • @noahedenborg4221
      @noahedenborg4221 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Well banes do double dip and that's always better on dot builds

    • @ragtop63
      @ragtop63 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      @@noahedenborg4221 I'm like the guy in the video. I don't have any interest in having to create special builds just to gain some sort of niche meta that really isn't needed. That being said, I don't use bane mods. They're the bane of weapon modding.

    • @DaSharkCraftMC
      @DaSharkCraftMC 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      I'm with you on this. If I run viral slash, I run serration anyway because I want the bleed dot to be bigger end of story. I hate running bane mods as well so the choice I am left with is more elemental which won't have a big effect on armored enemies or serration which will help inflict bigger slash procs. The choice is alarmingly simple in that regard.

    • @NiceGameInc
      @NiceGameInc 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@DaSharkCraftMCplease just run Roar...

    • @DaSharkCraftMC
      @DaSharkCraftMC 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@NiceGameInc roar is just an ability to replace bane mods either way. Ive gone up to level 700 enemies without bane mods or roar so it doesn't really matter to me. (I usually get bored around lvl 500)

  • @Epicmonk117
    @Epicmonk117 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    4:56 Goddamn that line had me in stitches

  • @magic_cfw
    @magic_cfw 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +37

    I wonder if showing the mods on the Zhuge which happens to have 100 base damage would best show how mods work?

  • @jakeofthewest
    @jakeofthewest 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +18

    I have learned more in this series of videos than in years of watching build guides. Its so nice to actually understand why certain mods are used in certain places!

    • @bagusprayogo7025
      @bagusprayogo7025 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      how many years u're in warframe? cuz most veterans knew Kengineer is always there making videos about the game's mechanics
      there, at least now u know Kengineer exist, well.. or this guy too, Kengineer if u want in depth knowledge or this guy that have simple yet quick to understand, or both... choice is yours

    • @DragonKnightJin
      @DragonKnightJin 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I agree, having it explained *WHY* you do certain things in builds is always nice.
      Maybe it's just my brain, but I much prefer knowing WHY I should do something a certain way.

  • @frostslicer7367
    @frostslicer7367 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    Faction bane mods are the opposite of QoL and I'll never use them except very niche scenarios like my Tenet Diplos Profit Taker Shield Breaker. I use Rifle most of the time, Amalgam Serration for sprint speed. Guns for me are utility or single target, and most content even steel path don't require the loadout juggling every mission.

  • @TheAssassin409
    @TheAssassin409 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

    I'd rather just run serration with the arcanes so I don't have to deal with the ramp up the arcanes require.

    • @lookalike4805
      @lookalike4805 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I have Vigorous Swap & Arcane Arachne for that purpose. 👍

    • @felix_patriot
      @felix_patriot 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Don't forget that you're not removing a base damage mod AND THEN PUTTING NOTHING IN IT'S PLACE. You're removing the base damage mod and then putting another mod affecting a different multiplier on, this will be enough to get the kills to build up stacks.

    • @lookalike4805
      @lookalike4805 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @felix_patriot
      In theory... Yes... But not in Practice...
      Serration Provides a 2.65X increase to your Build.... Anything else you might want to Add is usually lower even if it will be eventually higher once the Arcane Ramps....
      That's assuming if it can Even Ramp up in the First Place... Especially with Arcane Merciless's 4 Second Deadline. Some Weapons just don't Kill that Quickly without a Pre-Existing Base Damage Source.
      No amount of Maff Theory can Uncover this Discrepancy... It's something you notice when llive Testing a Build. 👀

    • @felix_patriot
      @felix_patriot 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@lookalike4805 The first kill will start slow undoubtedly. But then you have 30% base damage which is acting multiplicatively with whatever is in your would-be serration slot. By the time it's at 60% the snowball will have likely rolled far enough that you're already doing more damage than if serration was in that slot, and it's only getting way easier from there. And on the end of that you have a far more optimal build.
      If the weapon in question can't achieve without serration, the mere 2 kills required to get that ball rolling, perhaps we should be asking why we're using that weapon in the first place.

    • @lookalike4805
      @lookalike4805 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @felix_patriot
      First of all... That's just a 1.7 Damage Increase (after Factoring the Resulting Maff that would Occur if you replaced Serration with a Primed Faction Mod).... That's essentially Nothing. A Fact that will become apparent when the Timer runs out before you can reach the 60% Threshold despite it being Multiplicative.
      2nd of all... Why are we using those Weapons you ask ? Well because The Circuit doesn't Give you a Choice. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
      I'm not saying people SHOULD use Serration with those Arcanes... But I totally understand why they do.
      Serration's Big Upfront Damage Increase Ensures that you will meet Arcane Merciless's 4 Second Deadline more Consistently even if the Final Damage Output is lower after getting Fully Stacked. Giving the Impression that it's Better in practice.
      Which brings us back to my First Response... Vigorous Swap. It's basically like having A Serration that can be Turned on When Needed but Turned Off when it's not. And all it costs is a 0.6 Second Animation 😎
      It also Costs a mod Slot but since we're trying to get the Weapon to Work I usually Find IL always be able to Slot it in (specifically For Primed Warframe's).

  • @0DeathTheKid15
    @0DeathTheKid15 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    I love this series.
    Im a returning player and havent played since Fortuna came out.
    So I have a LOT to learn and refresh.

  • @Kalancodragon
    @Kalancodragon 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    As a warframe veteran (back when endurance was a thing), i do love this "but why" series and if i am getting somebody into the game and theyre just starting to get to the point of trying to figure out modding in depth, I'll be pointing them to this video. Its capital I-Informative in the best way.

  • @iTs_InZane
    @iTs_InZane 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I really want to thank you for this video of the series in particular (The But Why vids are all great). I have stayed aware of warframe but rarely played it much for the last year or 2 and i alway wondered what was up with serration and the others not being in builds. And this actually helped me understand the numbers of WF so much. Great Job, and thank you!

  • @Jayxe
    @Jayxe 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    I love this "but why?" Series. Keep it up!

  • @garyblumenthal654
    @garyblumenthal654 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Thank you again. I restarted Warframe and the Steel Path arcanes were new to me and did not understand how this worked.

  • @NiceGameInc
    @NiceGameInc 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    There are more problems with how this is explained: When you care about elemental damage and use that for your calculation, you need to remember that slash procs don't benefit at all from elemental damage. In hunter munition builds, it's actually quite benefical to use one base damage mod together with an arcane to increase damage of your slash procs while ALSO using elemental damage like heat (best single) element to profit from seperate status procs. It's even better to not use faction mods and use Roar for that sweet faction damage multiplier increasing both your slash and elemental procs on all enemies in the game(!), which also frees up a mod slot for even more mod space.

    • @lookalike4805
      @lookalike4805 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You're the Only who feels that way... Especially since he Explained it just fine but there's definitely Holes in your Explanation. 😐

    • @NiceGameInc
      @NiceGameInc 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@lookalike4805 scroll down the comments a bit...

  • @ProphetS116
    @ProphetS116 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Love these, no one else is explaining WHY the game is how it is. By giving the information of why and not a build, it truly lets people understand what they are doing. Love this MC

    • @RossKyle95
      @RossKyle95 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      There is others , ones that break it down even further in that case actually

  • @Votrae
    @Votrae 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I absolutely love your straightforward, real world discussion and guides. Cheers

  • @philipcampbell4096
    @philipcampbell4096 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Man this video changed my life and gave me a greater appreciation and love of a game i have been playing for many years now (also came back after an hiatus so was still rolling the old way...). Thank you so much man 👍

  • @joejoemojo
    @joejoemojo 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    wonderfully well put together informational and concise

  • @Phalar123
    @Phalar123 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Love the series MC, quite literally the perfect example of what I was looking for

  • @decoyoficial6011
    @decoyoficial6011 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This is the most useful video yet, you just broke down the most important part of this game in a very understandable way, even though you were explaining spaghetti code

  • @ZFG__Gaming
    @ZFG__Gaming 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Awesome Video, thanks dude! You are my favourite WarFrame TH-camr ❤

  • @kingkabong
    @kingkabong 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    this series is so good, thanks for doing it! vet player, learning lots... :)

  • @AIROKI4
    @AIROKI4 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Very simple way to describe how it works . Thank you!

  • @Darthmufin
    @Darthmufin 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Sort of off topic but can we collectively sigh in relief that vets like us will be able to use the 500+ of EACH acolyte arcane in whispers to transmute into new arcanes? I'm sure they are adding a resource to prevent players from doing it without farming but still, what a relief.
    They are worthless in both plat and credits and i literally have 500 of each primary and secondary arcane lol.

    • @blacksunserpent
      @blacksunserpent 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Do not worry, DE will find a way to screw us somehow

    • @Goldy01
      @Goldy01 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      You'll get 1 dust per steel path arcane, and a pack with three arcanes costs 500 dust, you'll see 🤣

    • @waliedsalam2487
      @waliedsalam2487 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Fr it’s so hard finding a buyer for these arcanes these days

  • @AlsoMeowskivich
    @AlsoMeowskivich 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    it's good to hear someone explain this

  • @Dracowinges
    @Dracowinges 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Ahh I see, so thats why not running serration on everything is okay. Great video! no preable, no bs just straight to the point, heres the explanation, heres a example with pictures, bish bash bosh Nice!

  • @DJFlare84
    @DJFlare84 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    You know, I never understood what people meant when I heard them talk about "multiplicative damage vs additive damage" before but you explained it perfectly. Thank you.

  • @slothbelly5332
    @slothbelly5332 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    informative and efficient, as always.

  • @jhh243
    @jhh243 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    “Because it was coded by a clown” hahahahahahahahahaha!!! OMG that made me laugh! Great video

  • @sampanchung1234
    @sampanchung1234 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I am going to start playing the game again as cross save is being added, its crazy to think the game has evolved so much, there are so many new mods and arcanes now its crazy.

  • @Vestedd
    @Vestedd 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Amazing. Thank you!

  • @zodrickzheioh7318
    @zodrickzheioh7318 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I never really thought about diminishing returns between my Arcanes and serration. That being said, I usually use the Arcanes as a bonus, as I don't have them farmed to max, so they're really not core to my build, but knowing this does actually allow a little more freedom, freeing up a mod slot for something else that could be more fun. I don't look up builds for anything building is just half the fun for me, so even when looking at your builds I largely only look to see if you're using something interesting that I wouldn't have thought to put on there. But this makes sense, especially for Arcanes that are a little easier to ramp up like Cascadia Flare which will stack off simply applying a heat proc. Honestly, even as someone with 2500 hours in the game, thanks for this one, there are so many things I can do with this XD

  • @moondog548
    @moondog548 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I remain in awe of you ability to explain this shit in a way that I CAN UNDERSTAND. 🤯

  • @GEVLION
    @GEVLION 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    holy crap that was very helpful makes so much sense now

  • @Endymion0021
    @Endymion0021 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Serration, Hornetstrike and such are less good if one uses the basedamage arcanes, but man, dry shooting at the start of a mission or after a revive just feels horrible.
    Or more a me problem I like using abilities to kill or have aoe primary, singletarget secondary or heavy attack melee for the same purpose, usualy no primer due to no fun for the extra apm stress, but loosing stacks on all other currently unused loadoutparts breaks some of the gameflow, sure deadhead or dexterity have longer stack uptime but force themselfes on you making them less comfy.

  • @FredTheConsumerOfGrapes
    @FredTheConsumerOfGrapes 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    With crosssave finally being added I have returned to Warframe after a 6 year hiatus. I went through and tried all my guns and old builds out, and what the absolute heck was Yung me thinking. Weird that I saw this video the morning after discovering how to actually mod and do damage in Warframe. P.S. good to see you're still educating the community

  • @yasirabdulhakeem
    @yasirabdulhakeem 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Ay let's go - this video addresses a suggestion I made, and I must say, this is probably the clearest and well-explained video about this topic. Great job!
    Also, not to be a sweat, but Longbow Sharpshot is a unique multiplier to bows, so do with that info what you will. Primary Merciless is more consistent though for bows that can't score easy headshots.

  • @SangminLee76
    @SangminLee76 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    On ideal situations, yes, you're right but what if your ammo runs out while stacking arcane buffs or the weapon is not capable of killing anything without buff stacks.
    So, the weapon is the main source of DPS and you don't have DPS or ammo issue during initial buff stacking, yes, you can loose base damage mod.
    If not, using base damage mod is not bad at all.

    • @RossKyle95
      @RossKyle95 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Or you just hit cannon fodder , or you are running armour strip of some flavor even if it’s not 100% , ramp up generally is not an issue

  • @DeadlockDrago
    @DeadlockDrago 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I've been working on a Frost build with my Torid to go into this a bit. The Torid on its own is a Gas crit machine with hunter munitions, but my Frost is adding viral and cold on top for not only more raw damage but even more multipliers with both viral status and cold cd boosts AND additional statuses to make Galvanized aptitude even more lethal. And because of the disgusting 205.2% status chance I'm racking up all these statuses in less than half a second on multiple bodies in a horde. It's so gross I don't even need to avalanche to strip armor.

  • @fideljok
    @fideljok 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    4:54 Never change, uncle MC lol

  • @Vedrlaufnir
    @Vedrlaufnir 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    This video won't stop me because I can't math!!

  • @chemicalcretin139
    @chemicalcretin139 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    THANK YOU I NEVER KNEW HOW IT WORKED MY BUILDS ARE SO MUCH BETTER NOW 😭

  • @felix_patriot
    @felix_patriot 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The best way to demonstrate this effect to someone ingame is to use a secondary weapon. Equip Hornet Strike to it, you'll see the damage numbers on the left go up. Equip Augur Pact to it, you'll see the damage numbers on the left go up again. Then, ask the person what they think will happen if you replace Augur Pact for one of the 90% elementals- the response is normally "the damage will stay the same since they're both 90%". But then you swap out Augur Pact for the elemental, and the total damage number is higher.

    • @filanfyretracker
      @filanfyretracker 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      and if you swap serration for a bane mod the numbers on the left go down, Which is why its hard to understand why a bane can sometimes outclass serration. Additive and multiplicative can be thrown around all day but truthfully the typical person sees number go big or number go small. Love the game but they really could do well to make the UI show things better.

  • @DEML91
    @DEML91 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    @MCGamerCZ I noticed that your Helios doesn't use deconstructor and it is on a frame that doesn't spam abilities , can you share your build please, I returned to WF but not sure if the "bound" Helios build still works after the fix.

  • @thedavesecurity
    @thedavesecurity 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Might have good to say you still need the up front damage mod when fighting an enemy / boss you don’t get to build stacks of the arcane on.

  • @nunya2400
    @nunya2400 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    If I use a bane mod.. all weapons have three load outs to start.. so I will use one for Corpus one for infested and one for grineer. then when I equip it I just pick the load out for the faction I am about to face. just use the in game label on the load out and its pretty easy to do.

  • @Hawk0820
    @Hawk0820 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    "It can be multiplicative or additive depending on the weapon because it was coded by a clown" best line i have ever heard

  • @NitroxDragon
    @NitroxDragon 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This is always what gets me on builds, thanks for the explanation.
    A follow up I would have would be: what is the role of an optimal Riven mod in this type of build setup? Replace one type of mod with another depending on the primary attribute and squeezing in extra attributes? It seems like the general use of Rivens is to double up on damage multipliers that are already in the build but would be diminishing.
    For example, I have a +damage +infested +multishot -status chance riven for Dread. With this video's build of Dread looking pretty tight, would the best mod to replace be Hunter Munitions? Or am I just dampening my damage by slotting in the riven at all?

    • @waliedsalam2487
      @waliedsalam2487 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You would definitely be hurting your damage by replacing Hunter Munitions for the riven. Even with diminishing returns, the Riven can add a whole lot of damage to the build as long as it’s got a good roll and you know what should be replaced for it. What mods do you currently have on your dread, if you don’t mind me asking?

  • @liam-ec-m595
    @liam-ec-m595 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    A end game item that lets you add one more mod slot (not capacity) literal slot that would be a huge reward

  • @siriuswinter5545
    @siriuswinter5545 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    But is there any benefit to put in a specific base-damage type mod like Buzz Kill to change the weapon basic damage distribution, and changing the status application priority?

  • @joym3357
    @joym3357 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    this is why I prefer arcanes like blight and reset and frostbite, I dont like my damage winding up like that lol, it bugs me if am guna use one of those acolyte arcanes its usually dexterity

  • @DivingHawker
    @DivingHawker 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Yes but, without stacks, good luck killing anything to get your stacks so, yeah, it's more efficient when it works but, when it doesn't, it's a real pain. I'd rather have the reliability of serration, even if it means less efficiency.

  • @icyflare6781
    @icyflare6781 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    this is helpful for me who dont understand how modding works😂

  • @BokRadio-wy4ln
    @BokRadio-wy4ln 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    These videos are helpful guides and it really helps, but it would be even more great if you were to actually share your builds with us, like builds for weapons and frames, I can already imagine how great that would really be

  • @loofy530
    @loofy530 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I basically always use Serration equivalent on my builds anyway, because I just don't care enough to bother changing builds so everything has to be universal. And honestly, I don't play missions for over an hour anyway so everything still dies quickly.

  • @technoviking2415
    @technoviking2415 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The only time I use base dmg is archons or a acolyte killing weapon and a few other cases

  • @sophieirisviel4100
    @sophieirisviel4100 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    counterpoint: i run serration + bane with a acolyte arcane because none of my other primary arcanes are high enough rank to be better and making serration an elemental mod makes my bleeds do less damage

    • @lerosallyn9279
      @lerosallyn9279 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Counter-counterpoint: the elemental mods you put on should be viral so your slashes scale much higher than Serration ever could

    • @sophieirisviel4100
      @sophieirisviel4100 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@lerosallyn9279 i’m using gas nataruk with zephyr, can’t do viral because i need the gas to aoe loop with tornadoes

    • @noahedenborg4221
      @noahedenborg4221 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@lerosallyn9279counter counter counter point
      Out source viral if it isn't forced bleeds like hemorrhage or hunter munitions

  • @DevastationIndustries
    @DevastationIndustries 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    This is fantastic! However, peep my 100 video special. It doesn't matter if you do 100 billion damage, when 100 THOUSAND damage is more then enough for max cap. :) so you go ahead and put on that Amalgam Serration if you wanna. That 25% sprint boost is niiiiice.

  • @cmdraftbrn
    @cmdraftbrn 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    makes notes to check weapons for possible tossing of the mod

  • @ItsameArtic
    @ItsameArtic 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I actually wonder, so say if I were to have a shotgun riven which has damage on it, or if I had primed point blank, how would that work with a steel path arcane?

  • @themarkktv
    @themarkktv 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Brb, going to tweak the builds on everything I have

  • @lookalike4805
    @lookalike4805 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    ".... Because it was coded by a *Clown* ."
    I couldn't stop laughing 🤣😅😅😂😁😂😅🤣

  • @shaderunner7.0
    @shaderunner7.0 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    If aim is to do a lot of slash proc damage, wouldn't stacking on Serration etc be the best to increase that?

  • @kes_poco
    @kes_poco 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Saying that flat damage should never be combined with Acolyte Arcanes can be *very* misleading
    It would probably be better to encourage players to be careful of diminishing returns in general
    There are 8 mod slots but only 6 major stats types that affect DPS: damage, cc, cd, muli, fire rate/reload, element
    This means that raw damage builds (aka boss damage builds) will inevitably stack some stats, especially with a riven
    (Since most relevant bosses are immune/resistant to status, status chance is mostly used for triggering special effects without their own direct DPS)
    Damage becomes desirable as flat damage mods have the highest ratio to corresponding Acolyte/Galvanized gear.
    For example,
    - Galvanized Diffusion is 230% multi, but the only other compatible multishot mod is a mere 60% (0.23x efficiency)
    - Acolyte Merciless gives 360% damage, while Serration gives 165% (0.46x efficiency)
    The main competitor to flat damage is elemental damage at 0.55x efficiency for normal elemental vs Primed elemental.
    The +0.11x powered up dps comes at the cost of ~50% lower unpowered dps, so builds with low innate killing power will need flat damage to get started.
    Enemy elemental weaknesses can't make up for the difference in unpowered damage, but will turn the max +0.11x bonus into something close to +0.52x assuming 75% weakness.

  • @sethharpenger607
    @sethharpenger607 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    We need more mods fitting into the d polarity and more mods need to be exilus

  • @Tupapcu
    @Tupapcu 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    if that's the case wouldn't the same apply for status chance mods?

  • @BetaMind
    @BetaMind 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I actually had no clue about this and with the new update and cross save coming out the 13th (if my friend gave me the right date) then I need to reconsider every weapon I've modded RIP

    • @Cross1nsan1ty
      @Cross1nsan1ty 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Unless you are a Founder cross save is not coming on the 13th, however give it a week or 2.

  • @V1510N_
    @V1510N_ 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    2:00 using 90% ele mod with primary merciless and serration instead of bane mod damage is 1187,5 which is higher :)

  • @NovaDragon
    @NovaDragon 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I think the reason why people don't know this still is because in every video I seen it explained its looks super complicated or the numbers don't add up.

  • @Raging-Lion
    @Raging-Lion 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Ah yes. time to remod my entire arsenal..fun.

  • @George_M_
    @George_M_ 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Merciless is for the reload speed buff. Unless youre AoE'ing everything to death instantly, its not staying up.

  • @number1loser410
    @number1loser410 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This is why my riven sucks so helpful

  • @mrlaughgas
    @mrlaughgas 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    So is there a list of weapons where galvanized aptitude is a multiplier instead of additive like you mentioned?

    • @Cross1nsan1ty
      @Cross1nsan1ty 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I'm pretty sure that in every Aznvasion video the link to a spreadsheet is in the Pinned comment.

  • @Crimson_Valor
    @Crimson_Valor 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Okay I appreciate this being made because I see all these builds using the arcane and never understood and no one would tell me why
    Guess it’s my fault for being MR24 and still not understanding warframe’s damage formula

    • @theshadow3215
      @theshadow3215 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Mastery rank ≠ Knowledge
      Im mr 24 and i still can't do profit-taker😅

    • @theunhingedgamer3762
      @theunhingedgamer3762 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      mastery rank doesn't equal knowledge I legit learned everything about the game after abandoning it for years when I came back to it in 2018 lol

    • @ewoudvanaalst4089
      @ewoudvanaalst4089 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I have played wf for 8 years and I still don't understand some fundamentals

    • @lookalike4805
      @lookalike4805 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Wait... How do I get that Crossed Out Equal Sign ? 😮
      -=-

    • @lookalike4805
      @lookalike4805 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Nope ... Can't Fool the System with That Trick... 😬

  • @AmieW
    @AmieW 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    never let DE cook spaghetti again 5:00

  • @Maugena
    @Maugena 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Dear Warframers and general number crunching enthusiasts. Do not confuse diminishing returns as opportunity cost.
    While it's easy to understand the concept that's being alluded to here, a sequence of "100 * (1) = 100, 100 * (1 + 1) = 200, and 100 * (1 + 1 + 1) = 300" does not diminish in returns.
    Diminishing returns would look look akin to "100 * (1) = 100, 100 * (1 + 1) = 199, 100 * (1 + 1 + 1) = 297". Ignoring the seemingly incorrect math, this example conveys diminishing returns.
    Opportunity cost is the concept that's being alluded to here. Opportunity cost is loss incurred when an alternative would provide a larger benefit.
    "[...] the objective of opportunity cost is to ensure efficient use of scarce resources." Your scarce resources are mod slots.

  • @ewoudvanaalst4089
    @ewoudvanaalst4089 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I am very bad at math, never bad (Hell, I'm a historian, only numbers I know are years) so I always thought "more damage means bigger boom right. cuz. higher... numbers... and stuff. yes?"
    And then I saw all these meta level cap builds and I didn't see serration and I was like "huh... but... damage..." I never understood it so I just ignored it, but you actually make it understandable. As soon as I have maxxed out my Merciles I will say buhbye to serration and hornet strike

    • @miguelcabreracastro6968
      @miguelcabreracastro6968 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      i still dont get it :,l

    • @zairuswane
      @zairuswane 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Imagine this:
      You have 8 arms in your inventor., and you are 1 person capable of carrying up to 50 kilos, but you dont have arms to grab them so you cant actually carry that weight.
      Now, the task is to lift a 50 Kilos bucket to your neighbours house. How do you carry it from your house to there?
      Answer is: you put 2 arms from your inventory to you, and now you have the capability of lifting it and carrying it. So far so good.
      Now imagine you have to lift a bucket of 100 kilos, but your whole body still can only lift 50 K. What do you do?
      Wrong answer, and this is what adding Serration and more raw damage mods does: You select another 2 arms from your inventory and put them into you aswell. If 2 arms allowed you to carry 50 kilos, then a 4armed person should carry 100 kilos, right?
      The answer is no, because your arms allow you to lift the bucket, but you actually carry it with your whole body, so 4 arms still carry 50 Kilos bucket.
      Correct answer: you select 2 arms from your inventory, and put them into another armless person. Now this person can carry 50 Kilos aswell, so job done.
      You might say, hey but you didnt tell me that there were more armless people in my house. And thats precisely it. You know that there is raw damage, but you dont know that there is Faction Damage, Elemental Damage, Status-Slash procs damage, Critical Damage. You learn them on the run.
      So, landing the example unto warframe: if the goal is to do the highest damage possible (carry the most buckets), wouldnt the answer be to 'allow/activate' all the people in your house to everyone carry a bucket? That is, to use your mod capacity/arm inventory to give them arms so they all can now lift buckets?
      Thats what you do in warframe when you add different types of mods.
      1. Raw damage like serration, heavy caliber and that arcane, are like 2 arms in a person, so equipping them together is like putting yourself 6 arms to lift more. The more arms doesnt necessarily mean you can carry more weight, because you lift using your back muscles and legs.
      2. Elemental damage you literally enable it in many guns until you put elemental mods, same as in the example, you activate your helpers until you give them a pair of arms.
      3. Critical Damage exists by default, but you need Chance for it to happen, so you here must also enable them by adding more arms/mods here.
      4. Status, also exists but need to build it up so it becomes useful, by also pouring mod capacity/arms from inventory.
      5. And there might be more hidden people in your house. I read yesterday that warframe Mirages Eclipse increments total damage, Rhinos Roar are a universal faction damage mod, and so on.
      So if you see, thats the general idea. Now, why does this work this way? Because most things in life, by default, already do something by themselves. it is until you couple some of them together that they work best, or different. The detail is to understand them, and see what things need tweaking/enabling/an upper hand.
      Final example, a tire can rotate and move easily, an engine transforms one energy into another, and a wheel allows to steer something. By themselves, they already work, but when you use mods to activate them and tweak them, and add them together. You get an engine, connected to a transmission, that allows the tires to spin and thus move in a certain direction, and a wheel that guides the general body of what you just created. What did you roughly assemble? A car.
      tl:dr: things already work by themselves, the trick is that together, they work way better. The important part is to know them so you can tweak them to do certain tasks up to the best of them.

    • @lookalike4805
      @lookalike4805 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I'm not Reading All That. 😐

    • @zairuswane
      @zairuswane 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@lookalike4805 there exists something called tl dr that means Too Long, Didnt Read, in case you dont want to read something massive. I put one on mine comment.

    • @lookalike4805
      @lookalike4805 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @zairuswane
      What's the point if you Hide It ? 🤔
      Should I go looking for your TLDR ?

  • @mezeporta
    @mezeporta 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Off topic, but is Inaros a fun/good warframe?

  • @spinorex.5057
    @spinorex.5057 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I think in my opinion primary merciless need a little buff not dmg but duration 4 secs seems bad and not long enough especially in early steel path where it takes 10 secs to kill something

    • @lerosallyn9279
      @lerosallyn9279 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      It’s 4 seconds PER stack, not the whole stack of 12. And I mean this in the best way possible but if you’re taking 10s to kill an enemy in base SP (were talking about the same base level of 100-150 right?) you need relook at your builds to figure out what’s going wrong

    • @vrfitnessandgaming3234
      @vrfitnessandgaming3234 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@lerosallyn9279 100%

    • @noahedenborg4221
      @noahedenborg4221 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Well for raw dmg builds deadhead IF they can kill via headshot
      Merciless for every other build
      And dexterity if ur going melee or have down time like disruption

    • @RossKyle95
      @RossKyle95 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I still run deadhead mostly , merciless I only really run on pure aoe stuff where you’d be lucky to proc deadhead

  • @liam-ec-m595
    @liam-ec-m595 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    But hear me out, what about low dmg weapons like the Soma that might need serration to get those initial kills?

  • @andrewgrow5711
    @andrewgrow5711 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    i just wish you rephrased this
    the general premise of the video is informative and true...
    but you can use a dmg mod with an acolyte arcane, and it's not always bad
    you need dmg, speed, cc, cd, ms, elements
    that's 6 things
    but you have 8 mod slots and an arcane slot
    so once you have your 6 things covered you still have like 2 mod and/or arcane slots left over
    then you make marginal decisions with those 2 leftover slots
    at that point 15% more damage is still fine...
    and if you want to spend a slot to help get over the initial damage hump before the arcane ramps then serration is totally reasonable
    generally those last 2 slots aren't going to be a huge deal and u can customize how you like

  • @pitmasterD
    @pitmasterD 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    It's actually not a big deal to use those arcanes w serration because most missions are only 20 min and extract.and for bosses you actually want the upfront damage.

  • @allwehadtodowasfollowtheda3061
    @allwehadtodowasfollowtheda3061 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Building up the stacks without serration sucks

  • @ananonymousnerd.2179
    @ananonymousnerd.2179 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I just don't have good Arcanes XD I need to beat more Acolytes!!!

  • @redapproves1330
    @redapproves1330 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    6000 hrs and I never understood how the damage is calculated, until now

  • @raylo555
    @raylo555 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I wish this was visually represented.

    • @Cross1nsan1ty
      @Cross1nsan1ty 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Do what he said with the 100 damage, but on a Zhuge. It's base damage is 100

  • @fluffdafire157
    @fluffdafire157 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Could we do a but why on multishot

  • @heavenlydemon5994
    @heavenlydemon5994 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I vote that Bane mod's be removed and Heavy Caliber and it's alternates for other weapon types be converted into a universal multiplier.

  • @zeroblue720
    @zeroblue720 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hm, had no idea the arcanes were sufficient enough to substitute for raw damage mods. A shame there's still not enough room to avoid builds being cookie-cutter, but it's something.

    • @waliedsalam2487
      @waliedsalam2487 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yeah, though their are a selection of weapons where you’d still want to have something like Serration, on top of the flat damage arcane, because their upfront damage when building stacks is lacking without it

  • @jacksonmcload4157
    @jacksonmcload4157 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Gotta love warframe math.

  • @MurderOne.
    @MurderOne. 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    When I first heard of people not using Serration, I went and did some testing. Be careful because this isnt true of all weapons and I dunno why. Some weapons apply to this formula, others just perform like ass without Serration. I tried alot of the weapons I was using on the regular and was killing in way LESS bullets with Serration, than without. However, some weapons I tried, it was the opposite and was just fine without it! I stopped looking at the damage numbers a long time ago. I just go by TTK. How many bullets does it take(thats actually what matters)........Listen, the maffs and algemabrayic equazins say its supposed to work, right? Well, bad news, after 4.5k hours in this game Ive learned one thing.....ALOT of crap doesnt follow standard lol. Its supposed to but it doesnt. Im almost certain it has to do with the damage profile of the weapon itself on whether you need it or not, idk.....Whats funny is we will never know lol....Its actually quite simple....use arcane+serration, go pew pew in Simulacrum....Take off Serration, go pew pew again...use whichever kills the fastest.....done.

    • @lerosallyn9279
      @lerosallyn9279 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      The math is actually rly simple. If you’re going against base SP enemies or lower, more base dmg kills them faster hence Serration wtv else. Any content higher than that is so incredibly tough that you need to maximise damage sources through banes, arcanes, and viral slash in order to kill them faster. Higher enemy level = higher armour that upfront base dmg cannot peel off, meanwhile spreading multipliers takes a bit to ramp up but easily outscales the former

    • @RossKyle95
      @RossKyle95 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The only thing with wonky math is the galv CO mods they have some weapons where it’s multiplicative and some where it’s either or but higher than a 100% dmg back ratio or less in others , some they don’t even flat out work

  • @muscifede
    @muscifede 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I hate building viral or any status on my weapons, i like my slash big and jucy so I always run bane + fire rate and get more slashy slash

    • @Goldy01
      @Goldy01 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Except viral gives you bigger slash procs...

    • @lookalike4805
      @lookalike4805 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @Goldy01
      Luckily Primers Exist... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    • @noahedenborg4221
      @noahedenborg4221 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Correction status isn't the same as damage when u say status u are talking about status effects
      Plus u have other sources of viral procs

    • @muscifede
      @muscifede 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I mean if I build status on my main damage gu, its gonna be viral I'm not insane@@noahedenborg4221

  • @Raumplestomp
    @Raumplestomp 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    As a cookie cutter build Steeler, The thing that I learned from this video is that I need to steal my builds from MCgamerCZ

  • @ali4games10
    @ali4games10 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    HULLO

  • @lucienjezek9216
    @lucienjezek9216 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Wish they just reworked 3 acolyte arcanes to make it closer to like primary blight or secondary shiver
    Right now is you use anything but 3 acolyte arcanes you are just shooting yourself in the foot

    • @Cross1nsan1ty
      @Cross1nsan1ty 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      With the recent changes to puncture and cold this isn't the case anymore. Shotguns value Blight, Frostbite, Vendetta, & Voltage now and is a valid choice in competing with Aco Arcanes.

  • @noahedenborg4221
    @noahedenborg4221 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Actually serration + acolyte arcane is okay but seration heavy cal and arcane is bad

  • @GSMMW
    @GSMMW 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Dont tell me what to do MCGamerCZ! 😜

  • @gregoryjamaalfulton
    @gregoryjamaalfulton 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    So for my latron I'd do even more stupid dmg if I dropped serration and ran aptitude and a bane mod holy crap

    • @Cross1nsan1ty
      @Cross1nsan1ty 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Unless you're using the base verson and not incarnon then yes.
      If you are using the incarnon mode do not use Aptitude unless you're going for direct shots. Aptitude does not work on AOE hits.

    • @eryes1218
      @eryes1218 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      even better, run Double Tap for that sweet sweet final multiplier

    • @lookalike4805
      @lookalike4805 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @eryes1218
      All Multipliers are Final...
      I'm guessing why we feel the need to Say "Final" is because Serration, Double Tap & Eclipse all Say + Damage. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯