When it comes to Black Mask I wish they would hybridize the two takes. Like he tortures because he thinks people show their "true face" when under extreme distress. It would also serve to help him justify his misanthropic philosophy to himself, to try and prove to himself and others that most people are scum who would sell others out if the right type and amount of torture was applied to them.
Jake Gross In fact, this has always been my black mask. He is a mask obsessed crime lord cult leader that gets off on disfigurement and torture. xD the way his character develops is so crazy and a lot of the changes are post crisis too so the sporadic development in character is canon, especially if you try to collect your bat comics chronologically (literary wise) like i do. So to me, Black Mask is all of these things and has done all of these things. I would just like to see a writer recognize that the cult leader black mask is still the same guy as the crime lord and the mask fanatic in the same timeline and just blend all of those in a story. It would be really interesting.
Black Mask was indeed very funny in the version of his character in "Under the Red Hood" & "Catwoman: Relentless" (that was the name of the story arc in which Sionis turned Catwoman's sister insane IIRC?) In "War Games" he also got a few good chuckles out of me. I like this side of the character ^^
Yeah they should combine the sadist and the gangster versions of Black Mask and have him torture people as a way to make them "take their masks off" so to speak.
Probably what would’ve been better for Mask if he saw that everyone around him was wearing a mask, and that ideology stuck with him hence why he hated Bruce Wayne because he believed he was wearing a mask as well
He could be the next villain for Detective comics. Since the writer loves putting batman and his team against evil organisations that want to destroy gotham, mask would be the next logical opponent. But instead of destroying gotham, he wants to rule it. The writer could reboot Romans character, make him similar to his cult figure version and make him a personal foe for basil, since masks and identity play a pivotal role in his arc.
That sounds like a great idea! Something like that would get me to buy 'tec again ;) Sionis vs karlo, I hadn't even really thought of that dynamic, I've been mainly thinking about a Sionis vs Dent scenario.
I've always liked Black Mask. I was originally introduced to the skull faced version of him but I really like the original. A lot of fans of the original don't like the skull faced version but I like to think that he had the original look then when his mask got burned on (somehow) it burned it beyond his flesh and showed the shape of his facial structure. It kind of justifies the look with the disfigurement in my eyes. I don't mind the convoluted backstory because it is at least an attempt of showing how a sociopath is created. It's never one isolated incident but years of different factors that shapes ones mind. Also, Roman is portrayed as being insane, so you're not really going to get every reason of why he feels some way about something (such as hating Bruce Wayne for his parents, who he saw as fake, trying to force him to play with him.) It's just his own twisted logic. I would understand if they tried to play him off as the kind of guy who would be sent to blackgate but they don't, he's insane. That's why he chose the lifestyle of a supervillain. I love your videos Rogues, I try to tune into every one of them and give them a like but this one seemed a little rushed. I'm not complaining because you're still my favorite comic channel, but I just hope you're not getting so overwhelmed by what you want to put out that your work is suffering. If you need to take it slower then I would much rather you do that to create the content I love. Us fans can wait a bit if we need to :)
Yeah the psychotic mind of a rogue should be built up over a long period of time, but the stuff that happened to Roman are just silly and all over the place.. Dropped as a baby, bitten by a raccoon, seduced by Circe? It's a mess.. Thanks Mister! I dont know that I'd say this video was rushed, I guess I could've talked more about the story, but I also dont want my videos to go on for too long. I do feel overwhelmed actually, but at the same time I love putting these videos out so I dont really want to slow down ;)
Gotham Rogues No problem. And thank you for being so active in your fan community as to actually read, consider and respond to the things we have to say. It's rare to see that on a lot of channels and it's one of the reasons you're one of my favorite content creators (besides the quality content itself.) Keep it up, Rogues. Looking forward to what you have for us next.
Janus cosmetics as a name for a makeup company is fitting as Janus was a Greek god of duality. He is usually depicted as having two faces, since he looks to the future and to the past. Circe is pronounced (Ser Cee) she was a witch in Greek mythology Oscar Wilde put it best when he said about masks "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
I think that Black Mask took inspiration from False face, I'm not sure if he was in the comics or not, but I do recall an episode of the Batman 66 show having him, kind of similar, though obviously no black mask.
Calling him a Golden Age villain is spot on -- even from the name itself recalling the pulp detective fiction magazines that featured the likes of The Shadow, the "Black Mask" moniker works in that capacity! Also why didn't you extend this to his modern day history as well?
Oh Rogues, it hurt when you said you didn't like Doug Moench's first Batman run as those stories are very close to my heart. Ah well, to each their own I suppose.
It I were rewriting this origin, I'd take a page from two-face and have his parents abuse him in secret. Then it would seem more authentic that he hates the act they put on in public, as he wants people to see them the way he does. Have Bruce be his only friend as a child, but later turn on him when Sionis tortures and kills his parents. Sionis would see this as Bruce hiding from his true self, and would then go on a pursuit to try and make him honest. I would have him figure out his secret identity, then the plot could be about batman trying to protect his secret identity from the world, as black mask tries to out him.
I wish they kept the mask thing just imagine how famous quotes about Batman begin Bruce’s real face wound be used by him if they kept that he might have been the villin of a Nolan film
I have returned from my hibernation and I see you have boomed to 2.1k subscribers already. I am awfully sorry I missed the day you reached 1k. I was battling serve anxiety and depression (and still am to an extent) but now I'm back and am binging all your videos like the good all days at 1am. To think you were at 7 subscribers when I discovered and now look at you :), not much makes me more proud. As for the video, black mask has always intrigued me, he isn't your run of the mill wacko bad guy. I love his obsession with masks and on a similar note; ambiguity. I have said this before, I will say it in the future, and I'm saying it again, B R I L L I A N T synopsis of the masked man himself. Stay Awesome Pal 😀
Nice to have you back, again! I always wonder what happens every time you go away. I'm sorry to hear you still have issues.. I hope that you can overcome them! You have the moral support of us here at Arkham atleast! Yeah it's crazy how things move fast. Those days when I had under 10 subs dont feel that long ago. Thank you very much for the long support!
Great channel, subscribed today! *Black Mask* is no other than my favorite C-lister. (I was a huge Batman: TAS + the 2 Burton movies (even "Forever" wasn't that bad as a kiddo) but "Batman and Robin" killed my enthusiasm for a long time. As a teenager, a friend of mine tries to get me back into reading more DC stuff, and he lend me "Under the Red Hood", "Catwoman: Relentless" and "War Games" (among others), and I completely fell in love with that character's dark humor, personality and even looks, even if he is, admittedly, generic as heck. But I agree with you about Roman Sionis origine story, when I finally got to read it (could only find it online sadly) I was pretty disappointed. And poor Black Mask also got completely screwed over in several medias, like his role in "Batman: Arkham Origins". When the trailer got out I got a stiffy, holy shit Black Mask at the top and plenty of cool mercenaries like Firefly, Deadshot and Deathstroke, and no Joker? (love him, but too much Joker kills even the Joker) Sign me up. What a let down... and in "Arkham Knight" (spoiler alert if you haven't played it), I was pumped that he got a second chance, and he only appears to get his shit pushed in by Jason? Even his "Arkham City" version sucked less. In the TV show "Gotham" season 1(dont real the rest of that paragraph if you haven't watched it) they really messed Sionis up. And then he is re-introduced in season 2 (f*ck yeah) to be part of St-Dumas task force "The Maniax", and gets the Suicide Squad"Slipknot" treatment, or the KBGeast one if you prefer the animated version (aka "Batman: Assault on Arkham). At least he was a lot of fun in the animated version of "Under the Red Hood" ^^ John DiMaggio was on point; too bad they didn't keep the Deathstroke team up, having him introduce the "Fearsome Hand of 4" to Black Mask as a quick & sweet cameo. . The Black Mask "The Batman" (the animated one) was also pretty cool, sweet design for the mask and he had some nice lines. He wasn't to shabby in the "Large & in charge" kind off boss, holding his own against both Robin & Batgirl at the same time several times in one episode. And one last thing, anyone remembers that rumors about Black Mask & Hush being the 2 mains villains in Nolan's trilogy? Sorry about the rant, I tend to write way too much when I'm pumped, and with all the videos from you left to watch, oh boy... You just turned a boring day at work into a nostalgia-fest, I'm a sucker for good C/D-listers so I'm spoiled. Hoping to find a video about *Philo Zeiss* aka *Mr Zeiss*, he only appeared in a couple of story arcs but I really really liked him; too bad he shaved his head in his last appearance, his "banane" as we say in french (no idea how to convey it in english) was awesome ^^ Thanks again for the vids, cheers from France!
I remeber those rumors. Thank goodness Nolan didn't actually go that route. To have "generic gangster with black skull face" as the villain in the final film of the trilogy wouldn't feel right.
The concept sounds really cool. A shame the focus was less about backstory than batman struggling against new mysterious threat. Would like it if he met the Waynes at an early age because his parents were eager to climb the social ladder. But then a series of bad turns and luck left Sionis in increasing ruin from association. He could turn Bruce into a symbol for all his problems, inflating events to impose that narrative, and despise his parents two-faced approach to always rush for attention and hand outs (building up his belief in people always wearing masks). Also pretty sure circe's name is probounced Sir-see.... like the greek enchantress from the Odyssey. (You didn't delve into it, but if she was used as reason for sionis's actions that plays into a beguiling enchantress too.)
Yeah there's plenty ways you could improve on Roman's backstory, becasue it has so much potential. Ah okay, that's good to know, I've never been sure how the hell you're supposed to pronounce that name..
I personally prefer the newer take on Black Masks character both personality wise and design wise. I am by no means hating on the old one, I just personally prefer Black Mask as the sadistic and ruthless mob boss.
Black Mask is an underrated Batman villain, but still amazing. His first appearance was really a confusing one, like how he hates Bruce Wayne, and decides to end his parents ina fire so he could have a woman all to himself, then turns into a life of crime. But, I still thing he is a good villain to Batman's rouges gallery, and his design looks great when he first appeared.
I actually don't think Black Mask should be too sympathetic, Batman already has plenty of sympathetic antagonists. So him being an unlikable character is fine with me. That said, I agree that his origin was way too complicated and overdone. They should have deleted a lot of elements and altered others. If I were to give him a new origin, I would have him be a genuine friend of Bruce Wayne's (and maybe even Harvey Dent too), and have them bond over their interests in alternate identities and a shared hatred over Gotham's corrupt putting on masks. But then Roman takes his obsession too far, and he begins to become increasingly unstable over his "mask" views. This leads him to seek counseling with one of Batman's psychiatrist villains (Scarecrow or Hugo Strange), but instead of helping him, they encourage his irrational behavior. This causes him to go off the deep end leads to him becoming Black Mask and beginning the False Face Society. He tries to get Bruce to join and he refuses, leading to Roman believing Bruce has been hiding behind a "mask" the whole time they were friends, starting his hatred of Bruce Wayne.
I re-read this story recently. I though it was a fair origin that showed all we needed to know about him for that time. Here's my take on it. You say his origin is convoluted, but we have to catch up om, what, 25 years of this guy's life, a guy we never saw before? A lot happens in that time, and obviously, since they took up 75% of the first issue to go through his back-story, they thought everything they had was important. I'll agree with you about Moench's writing in the 80's. I was never impressed with it, with the exception of his work on Batman Annual #10 (1986), but I think he did an okay job here. You express unbelief with the idea he was dropped as a baby. Why? It does happen, and it is not a motivation for becoming a villain, it was the act that caused it to be possible. It was probably shown as to explain how is is obviously completely emotionally unattached to any normal relationship a kid of his class would have growing up. We see he clearly has no love for his parents, or the social structure and games he thinks (rightly so) everyone must play when you're extremely wealthy, explaining his dislike for Bruce Wayne: Wayne seemed to go along with no issues about it, showing he has the same "mask-yourself-in-public" morality that always pissed Roman off. As for being bitten by a raccoon, that not so much as causes him to become Black Mask, but it does do a couple of things. He sees himself as obviously more mature than others his age, yet he gets turned into a crying child (from a creature with a 'mask'), symbolically showing, to a young, frightened, mentally unwell child, that those with masks not only hide their real selves, be can also be dangerous to those who don't recognize that fact. You say he was under a spell by the model Circe. I never took it as literally as you do. He was enamored by her. Something about her broke through his normal, emotionally uncaring attitude and he became smitten. He was only under the spell of his attraction to a woman who, just like a social climber his parents were, left him when she got a better opportunity somewhere else (in his point of view; it's clearly obvious he was the doom of his own company). If he was a normal man with normal emotions, yes, it would be to much, but because he does not have a normal emotional response to things, I see it as perfectly reasonable he'd do a lot of stupid things to try to "impress" the woman he thinks he loves. Roman hates Bruce because he represented the willing social climber that Roman would never be, and completely despised. You say it was a nice thing for Wayne to bail Sionis out, as Lucius Fox clearly says as well, but to Roman, one, no matter what, it is taking the company away from Roman and giving it to the control of Wayne, and two, symbolically shows that the masked social climbers like Bruce Wayne will win in the end against those who dislike the system. Roman is the type of rich businessman who will resent ANY attempt to removed him, because it's, one, his company, and two, believe themselves better than they are at the business. They exist all over the place in the world, I see no reason they can't exist in the comic books. To add a point of agreement, I to really like what Black Mask looks like 'costume' wise.
Interesting points indeed! It still doesnt quite work for me and I find Roman, in this story, to be a pretty uninteresting villain. I didnt mean that I disbelieved him being dropped as a baby, I just thought it was a bit ridicolous and cliche.. I mean it's a saying and all, "where you dropped as a baby?", but this guy actually was dropped as a baby.. I dunno it just seems goofy to me.. Not saying that babies are never dropped in the real world though. I actually think that this story should have been longer, maybe 4 parts instead, and started with Roman already as the black mask, while showing his origin in flashbacks sprinkled throughout the arc. It probably would've worked a bit better for me that way, instead of cramming his entire life story into 75% of one issue as you say. Oh and btw yeah Batman annual #10 is great! I forgot that Moench wrote that..
Oh, I don't disagree with you about the broad points: The origin was not told in the best way, and I found the first part rather dull overall. I think better would have been the normal story with bits and pieces interspersed throughout the parts, though maybe they wanted us to know upfront who we were dealing with, I don't know. Either way, still a good video, and thank you for your work on this. And yeah, it's such a good story, I never remember it's by Moench either. Of the 80's Batman stories he wrote that I possess (which is 51 by my count), I can list the stories I really like on two hands, and that's with three extra fingers of space. Maybe I was spoiled by Conway and Wein or something, but he never did it for me in that period. Cheers.
Have his parents be more interested in appearing Rich, begging persecuted as a a loving family and running the company then caring for him. Also have them try to get Romain to befriend Bruce after his parents die to inhahnase their public image and have Roman steal the company from them as a revaveng then he purposefully ruins the company but instead of baling him out Bruce buys the company from his major share holders who sold in a mass panic and have that be the reson he hates Bruce
I agree. Monk aka moench was not a suitable writer for Batman. His origin is ptetty shitty. Albeit Black Mask is a good villain and can be much more highly developed. His costume is a stroke of genius ill admit.
Gotham Rogues he is also recognized for his work on Moon knight, wich I haven t read. Good video,I also like the masks theme and Black Mask original look, later they turned him on a black red skull.
Gotham Rogues the partnership he made on Master of Kung Fu with Artist Paul Gulacy continued on Batman,Batman Prey,and Batman Predator 2 are examples of this.
myasshole69 And be a better and cooler version on killer moth considering raccoons are kinda like bats but not completely black, different skull structure, and wingless.
When it comes to Black Mask I wish they would hybridize the two takes. Like he tortures because he thinks people show their "true face" when under extreme distress. It would also serve to help him justify his misanthropic philosophy to himself, to try and prove to himself and others that most people are scum who would sell others out if the right type and amount of torture was applied to them.
Jake Gross I've always wished they would do this too.
Jake Gross In fact, this has always been my black mask. He is a mask obsessed crime lord cult leader that gets off on disfigurement and torture. xD the way his character develops is so crazy and a lot of the changes are post crisis too so the sporadic development in character is canon, especially if you try to collect your bat comics chronologically (literary wise) like i do. So to me, Black Mask is all of these things and has done all of these things. I would just like to see a writer recognize that the cult leader black mask is still the same guy as the crime lord and the mask fanatic in the same timeline and just blend all of those in a story. It would be really interesting.
Black Mask was indeed very funny in the version of his character in "Under the Red Hood" & "Catwoman: Relentless" (that was the name of the story arc in which Sionis turned Catwoman's sister insane IIRC?)
In "War Games" he also got a few good chuckles out of me.
I like this side of the character ^^
Yeah they should combine the sadist and the gangster versions of Black Mask and have him torture people as a way to make them "take their masks off" so to speak.
Great idea.
Probably what would’ve been better for Mask if he saw that everyone around him was wearing a mask, and that ideology stuck with him hence why he hated Bruce Wayne because he believed he was wearing a mask as well
He could be the next villain for Detective comics. Since the writer loves putting batman and his team against evil organisations that want to destroy gotham, mask would be the next logical opponent. But instead of destroying gotham, he wants to rule it.
The writer could reboot Romans character, make him similar to his cult figure version and make him a personal foe for basil, since masks and identity play a pivotal role in his arc.
That sounds like a great idea! Something like that would get me to buy 'tec again ;) Sionis vs karlo, I hadn't even really thought of that dynamic, I've been mainly thinking about a Sionis vs Dent scenario.
I've always liked Black Mask. I was originally introduced to the skull faced version of him but I really like the original. A lot of fans of the original don't like the skull faced version but I like to think that he had the original look then when his mask got burned on (somehow) it burned it beyond his flesh and showed the shape of his facial structure. It kind of justifies the look with the disfigurement in my eyes.
I don't mind the convoluted backstory because it is at least an attempt of showing how a sociopath is created. It's never one isolated incident but years of different factors that shapes ones mind. Also, Roman is portrayed as being insane, so you're not really going to get every reason of why he feels some way about something (such as hating Bruce Wayne for his parents, who he saw as fake, trying to force him to play with him.) It's just his own twisted logic. I would understand if they tried to play him off as the kind of guy who would be sent to blackgate but they don't, he's insane. That's why he chose the lifestyle of a supervillain.
I love your videos Rogues, I try to tune into every one of them and give them a like but this one seemed a little rushed. I'm not complaining because you're still my favorite comic channel, but I just hope you're not getting so overwhelmed by what you want to put out that your work is suffering. If you need to take it slower then I would much rather you do that to create the content I love. Us fans can wait a bit if we need to :)
Yeah the psychotic mind of a rogue should be built up over a long period of time, but the stuff that happened to Roman are just silly and all over the place.. Dropped as a baby, bitten by a raccoon, seduced by Circe? It's a mess..
Thanks Mister! I dont know that I'd say this video was rushed, I guess I could've talked more about the story, but I also dont want my videos to go on for too long. I do feel overwhelmed actually, but at the same time I love putting these videos out so I dont really want to slow down ;)
Gotham Rogues No problem. And thank you for being so active in your fan community as to actually read, consider and respond to the things we have to say. It's rare to see that on a lot of channels and it's one of the reasons you're one of my favorite content creators (besides the quality content itself.) Keep it up, Rogues. Looking forward to what you have for us next.
Janus cosmetics as a name for a makeup company is fitting as Janus was a Greek god of duality. He is usually depicted as having two faces, since he looks to the future and to the past.
Circe is pronounced (Ser Cee) she was a witch in Greek mythology
Oscar Wilde put it best when he said about masks "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
Circe is pronounced *Sir See* .
I like this versions design because I like the brown suit with the emotionless grey/black mask, I prefer that over the generic skull mask
I think that Black Mask took inspiration from False face, I'm not sure if he was in the comics or not, but I do recall an episode of the Batman 66 show having him, kind of similar, though obviously no black mask.
Calling him a Golden Age villain is spot on -- even from the name itself recalling the pulp detective fiction magazines that featured the likes of The Shadow, the "Black Mask" moniker works in that capacity! Also why didn't you extend this to his modern day history as well?
Oh Rogues, it hurt when you said you didn't like Doug Moench's first Batman run as those stories are very close to my heart. Ah well, to each their own I suppose.
It I were rewriting this origin, I'd take a page from two-face and have his parents abuse him in secret. Then it would seem more authentic that he hates the act they put on in public, as he wants people to see them the way he does. Have Bruce be his only friend as a child, but later turn on him when Sionis tortures and kills his parents. Sionis would see this as Bruce hiding from his true self, and would then go on a pursuit to try and make him honest. I would have him figure out his secret identity, then the plot could be about batman trying to protect his secret identity from the world, as black mask tries to out him.
0:25 - Black mask's origin
2:20 - Rogue's review
5:00 - Artwork
I like Bruce Wayne here, showing up, and actually being a businessman.
I wish they kept the mask thing just imagine how famous quotes about Batman begin Bruce’s real face wound be used by him if they kept that he might have been the villin of a Nolan film
I have returned from my hibernation and I see you have boomed to 2.1k subscribers already. I am awfully sorry I missed the day you reached 1k. I was battling serve anxiety and depression (and still am to an extent) but now I'm back and am binging all your videos like the good all days at 1am. To think you were at 7 subscribers when I discovered and now look at you :), not much makes me more proud. As for the video, black mask has always intrigued me, he isn't your run of the mill wacko bad guy. I love his obsession with masks and on a similar note; ambiguity. I have said this before, I will say it in the future, and I'm saying it again, B R I L L I A N T synopsis of the masked man himself.
Stay Awesome Pal 😀
Nice to have you back, again! I always wonder what happens every time you go away. I'm sorry to hear you still have issues.. I hope that you can overcome them! You have the moral support of us here at Arkham atleast!
Yeah it's crazy how things move fast. Those days when I had under 10 subs dont feel that long ago. Thank you very much for the long support!
Thanks for being an absolute legend and I'm staying tuned for the next great video!
Great channel, subscribed today! *Black Mask* is no other than my favorite C-lister.
(I was a huge Batman: TAS + the 2 Burton movies (even "Forever" wasn't that bad as a kiddo) but "Batman and Robin" killed my enthusiasm for a long time.
As a teenager, a friend of mine tries to get me back into reading more DC stuff, and he lend me "Under the Red Hood", "Catwoman: Relentless" and "War Games" (among others), and I completely fell in love with that character's dark humor, personality and even looks, even if he is, admittedly, generic as heck.
But I agree with you about Roman Sionis origine story, when I finally got to read it (could only find it online sadly) I was pretty disappointed.
And poor Black Mask also got completely screwed over in several medias, like his role in "Batman: Arkham Origins".
When the trailer got out I got a stiffy, holy shit Black Mask at the top and plenty of cool mercenaries like Firefly, Deadshot and Deathstroke, and no Joker? (love him, but too much Joker kills even the Joker)
Sign me up.
What a let down... and in "Arkham Knight" (spoiler alert if you haven't played it), I was pumped that he got a second chance, and he only appears to get his shit pushed in by Jason? Even his "Arkham City" version sucked less.
In the TV show "Gotham" season 1(dont real the rest of that paragraph if you haven't watched it) they really messed Sionis up.
And then he is re-introduced in season 2 (f*ck yeah) to be part of St-Dumas task force "The Maniax", and gets the Suicide Squad"Slipknot" treatment, or the KBGeast one if you prefer the animated version (aka "Batman: Assault on Arkham).
At least he was a lot of fun in the animated version of "Under the Red Hood" ^^ John DiMaggio was on point; too bad they didn't keep the Deathstroke team up, having him introduce the "Fearsome Hand of 4" to Black Mask as a quick & sweet cameo.
.
The Black Mask "The Batman" (the animated one) was also pretty cool, sweet design for the mask and he had some nice lines.
He wasn't to shabby in the "Large & in charge" kind off boss, holding his own against both Robin & Batgirl at the same time several times in one episode.
And one last thing, anyone remembers that rumors about Black Mask & Hush being the 2 mains villains in Nolan's trilogy?
Sorry about the rant, I tend to write way too much when I'm pumped, and with all the videos from you left to watch, oh boy...
You just turned a boring day at work into a nostalgia-fest, I'm a sucker for good C/D-listers so I'm spoiled.
Hoping to find a video about *Philo Zeiss* aka *Mr Zeiss*, he only appeared in a couple of story arcs but I really really liked him; too bad he shaved his head in his last appearance, his "banane" as we say in french (no idea how to convey it in english) was awesome ^^
Thanks again for the vids, cheers from France!
I remeber those rumors. Thank goodness Nolan didn't actually go that route. To have "generic gangster with black skull face" as the villain in the final film of the trilogy wouldn't feel right.
I know this is old but I always considered Black Mask as a B lister
The concept sounds really cool. A shame the focus was less about backstory than batman struggling against new mysterious threat.
Would like it if he met the Waynes at an early age because his parents were eager to climb the social ladder. But then a series of bad turns and luck left Sionis in increasing ruin from association. He could turn Bruce into a symbol for all his problems, inflating events to impose that narrative, and despise his parents two-faced approach to always rush for attention and hand outs (building up his belief in people always wearing masks).
Also pretty sure circe's name is probounced Sir-see.... like the greek enchantress from the Odyssey. (You didn't delve into it, but if she was used as reason for sionis's actions that plays into a beguiling enchantress too.)
Yeah there's plenty ways you could improve on Roman's backstory, becasue it has so much potential.
Ah okay, that's good to know, I've never been sure how the hell you're supposed to pronounce that name..
I personally prefer the newer take on Black Masks character both personality wise and design wise. I am by no means hating on the old one, I just personally prefer Black Mask as the sadistic and ruthless mob boss.
same i think he is more threatening that way
You know he can be both, Right?
I think Black Mask is actually justified in his motives. He's really my favorite.
Black Mask is an underrated Batman villain, but still amazing. His first appearance was really a confusing one, like how he hates Bruce Wayne, and decides to end his parents ina fire so he could have a woman all to himself, then turns into a life of crime. But, I still thing he is a good villain to Batman's rouges gallery, and his design looks great when he first appeared.
I personally enjoy Black Mask in Batman Under The Red Hood animated movie.
I actually don't think Black Mask should be too sympathetic, Batman already has plenty of sympathetic antagonists. So him being an unlikable character is fine with me. That said, I agree that his origin was way too complicated and overdone. They should have deleted a lot of elements and altered others. If I were to give him a new origin, I would have him be a genuine friend of Bruce Wayne's (and maybe even Harvey Dent too), and have them bond over their interests in alternate identities and a shared hatred over Gotham's corrupt putting on masks. But then Roman takes his obsession too far, and he begins to become increasingly unstable over his "mask" views. This leads him to seek counseling with one of Batman's psychiatrist villains (Scarecrow or Hugo Strange), but instead of helping him, they encourage his irrational behavior. This causes him to go off the deep end leads to him becoming Black Mask and beginning the False Face Society. He tries to get Bruce to join and he refuses, leading to Roman believing Bruce has been hiding behind a "mask" the whole time they were friends, starting his hatred of Bruce Wayne.
I re-read this story recently. I though it was a fair origin that showed all we needed to know about him for that time. Here's my take on it.
You say his origin is convoluted, but we have to catch up om, what, 25 years of this guy's life, a guy we never saw before? A lot happens in that time, and obviously, since they took up 75% of the first issue to go through his back-story, they thought everything they had was important. I'll agree with you about Moench's writing in the 80's. I was never impressed with it, with the exception of his work on Batman Annual #10 (1986), but I think he did an okay job here.
You express unbelief with the idea he was dropped as a baby. Why? It does happen, and it is not a motivation for becoming a villain, it was the act that caused it to be possible. It was probably shown as to explain how is is obviously completely emotionally unattached to any normal relationship a kid of his class would have growing up. We see he clearly has no love for his parents, or the social structure and games he thinks (rightly so) everyone must play when you're extremely wealthy, explaining his dislike for Bruce Wayne: Wayne seemed to go along with no issues about it, showing he has the same "mask-yourself-in-public" morality that always pissed Roman off.
As for being bitten by a raccoon, that not so much as causes him to become Black Mask, but it does do a couple of things. He sees himself as obviously more mature than others his age, yet he gets turned into a crying child (from a creature with a 'mask'), symbolically showing, to a young, frightened, mentally unwell child, that those with masks not only hide their real selves, be can also be dangerous to those who don't recognize that fact.
You say he was under a spell by the model Circe. I never took it as literally as you do. He was enamored by her. Something about her broke through his normal, emotionally uncaring attitude and he became smitten. He was only under the spell of his attraction to a woman who, just like a social climber his parents were, left him when she got a better opportunity somewhere else (in his point of view; it's clearly obvious he was the doom of his own company). If he was a normal man with normal emotions, yes, it would be to much, but because he does not have a normal emotional response to things, I see it as perfectly reasonable he'd do a lot of stupid things to try to "impress" the woman he thinks he loves.
Roman hates Bruce because he represented the willing social climber that Roman would never be, and completely despised. You say it was a nice thing for Wayne to bail Sionis out, as Lucius Fox clearly says as well, but to Roman, one, no matter what, it is taking the company away from Roman and giving it to the control of Wayne, and two, symbolically shows that the masked social climbers like Bruce Wayne will win in the end against those who dislike the system. Roman is the type of rich businessman who will resent ANY attempt to removed him, because it's, one, his company, and two, believe themselves better than they are at the business. They exist all over the place in the world, I see no reason they can't exist in the comic books.
To add a point of agreement, I to really like what Black Mask looks like 'costume' wise.
Interesting points indeed! It still doesnt quite work for me and I find Roman, in this story, to be a pretty uninteresting villain. I didnt mean that I disbelieved him being dropped as a baby, I just thought it was a bit ridicolous and cliche.. I mean it's a saying and all, "where you dropped as a baby?", but this guy actually was dropped as a baby.. I dunno it just seems goofy to me.. Not saying that babies are never dropped in the real world though.
I actually think that this story should have been longer, maybe 4 parts instead, and started with Roman already as the black mask, while showing his origin in flashbacks sprinkled throughout the arc. It probably would've worked a bit better for me that way, instead of cramming his entire life story into 75% of one issue as you say. Oh and btw yeah Batman annual #10 is great! I forgot that Moench wrote that..
Oh, I don't disagree with you about the broad points: The origin was not told in the best way, and I found the first part rather dull overall. I think better would have been the normal story with bits and pieces interspersed throughout the parts, though maybe they wanted us to know upfront who we were dealing with, I don't know. Either way, still a good video, and thank you for your work on this.
And yeah, it's such a good story, I never remember it's by Moench either. Of the 80's Batman stories he wrote that I possess (which is 51 by my count), I can list the stories I really like on two hands, and that's with three extra fingers of space. Maybe I was spoiled by Conway and Wein or something, but he never did it for me in that period. Cheers.
Have his parents be more interested in appearing Rich, begging persecuted as a a loving family and running the company then caring for him. Also have them try to get Romain to befriend Bruce after his parents die to inhahnase their public image and have Roman steal the company from them as a revaveng then he purposefully ruins the company but instead of baling him out Bruce buys the company from his major share holders who sold in a mass panic and have that be the reson he hates Bruce
Too bad Doug moench wrote him instead of Gerry Conway. Moench's run on Batman is the worst of them all. Creating BM is his lone saving grace.
I love the original black masks mask more than the modern one
Did that say circe? wonder woman's arch enemy?
No it's a different Circe.
Yo, surprised you didnt mention this stories influence on the '89 Burton batman film.
I didn't know that. How was it an influence?
Aint great with names, but Joker/Jack Napier's squeeze was based on Circe.
I agree. Monk aka moench was not a suitable writer for Batman. His origin is ptetty shitty. Albeit Black Mask is a good villain and can be much more highly developed. His costume is a stroke of genius ill admit.
I want to see black mask be given a story that does him justice. Instead we got Birds of Prey.
Doug Moench had done good comics for Marvel on the 70 such as Master of Kung Fu.
Ah I see. I dont know if I've ever read any non-Batman stories by him..
Gotham Rogues he is also recognized for his work on Moon knight, wich I haven t read. Good video,I also like the masks theme and Black Mask original look, later they turned him on a black red skull.
Gotham Rogues the partnership he made on Master of Kung Fu with Artist Paul Gulacy continued on Batman,Batman Prey,and Batman Predator 2 are examples of this.
Do you think you'll ever cover some of the doom patrols baddies ?
Who are the villains from the Doom Patrol?
What # is black masks first appearance?
386
@@TheChristianDemon uh thanks but I already found it
@@TheChristianDemon poor guy you even went out of your way to find the issue they just happened to find it first sadly
Well if that Raccoon was Rocket Raccoon, it could explain why he became evil.
Also he should be Raccoon Man.
Yes he should have become Raccoon-Man!
With the power of a human sized Raccoon, like...
myasshole69 And be a better and cooler version on killer moth considering raccoons are kinda like bats but not completely black, different skull structure, and wingless.
I guess both are mammals and have fur.