Thanks for watching everyone! Been having a blast with Rivals of Aether 2 so far, let me know your thoughts on the list (and the game overall if you're inclined). Couple corrections to make: I said Kragg can cancel out of Side Special in Rivals 2, but implied that he couldn't do this in RIvals 1 as well when what I meant is that it has more utility in the new game. As for Maypul's uair tether combos, getting hit by this is less of an exploit and more of losing a 50/50, since DI-ing up to fall out of the uair means that nair will kill you at high percents. Still a valid criticism of the move and doesn't change any rankings regardless, but worth mentioning. *Main channel:* th-cam.com/users/mockrocktv *Twitter:* twitter.com/MrMockRock *Patreon:* www.patreon.com/mockrock *Twitch:* www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch *Teespring:* teespring.com/stores/mockrock *TimeBolt affiliate link* (excellent software I use to speed up editing on my videos, use code "MOCKROCK" for a discount): mockrock--timebolt.thrivecart.com/order-page/
Since you play Clairen thought Id mention, I really think her best move is Bair. Theres the basic frame data stuff like tipper Bair being -1 on Shield and Bair Trains with Hit Fall. But the craziest thing is Rev. Bair, which I think is her best combo tool. You can just continually reset combos into grab with rev Bair. Since it barely moves the opponent at all, but adds 25-30 frames of hitstun, plus the low landing lag of Bair itself. At High %s you can combo it in the Air, into Neutral Special, and her other aerials (including itself). It even confirms into Dair around 100% which can be good off stage. The rev part is also not hard to hit
Mockrock is one of the few fighting game/platform fighter TH-camrs that doesn't make me feel like I'm getting hit in the face with a dictionary in another language
One additional note about Orcane's nair. It's something absurd like -2 on shield with proper spacing, and on top of that there's the fact that you have mixups with all the different ways you can nairbounce
Personally I feel like Kragg's best move can't be anything but Rock, it is way too important to his identity as a character, his space control, his ranged play, his edgeguards and kill setups, and if we add Rock Pull into it as a command grab then it's no question. But Fair is infamous for a reason so I can see the argument
@@noivernblast3366 Ununbium has a real name now, it’s Copernicium. All 118 elements have been discovered and named, so there’s no placeholder names on the periodic table until elements from the next period are synthesised.
Really happy to see you're enjoying Rivals 2! I'm glad to see that Forsburn's clone got even more applications in this game as it was a fun part to use in his kit in the original IMO, so seeing it expanded even more is exciting.
Been an Orcane main since the first Rivals of Aether and neutral air was always one of the most fun moves of his in my opinion. I was worried at first that neutral air would've been worse in the sequel given how moves like up air and up tilt got hit. Good to know that I worried over nothing, to say the least.
I remember in roa1 always combining orcane down tilt into back air on di out, did they get rid of instant turnaround aerials or is down tilt just that slow now?
@@PlaylistMaker4You Dtilt is much less mashable and has a much more outwards sourspot. + the difference in physics systems just makes things flow different
I don't want to give Maypul's up air a boost for recovery for the same reason we don't talk about everyone's up special being the most important to their kit. It's good, but her horizontal kills with tether nair are actually true, and it's very safe on shield (it was +1 in the early betas, I think it's -1 now), so I'd choose it. I was expecting Seed Toss, but you chose to explicitly ignore setup moves like Slipstream or Droplet, so I'd agree there. (Glad to see Rivals a part of the intro again! I remember being sad about Sylvanos getting cut.)
Nair was on the shortlist for sure, when I watch Maypuls in action though it just seems a bit...reasonable? The tether confirms are obviously great, but there aren't typically a ton of those in a match (and the ones that exist are often initiated with uair), and as far as neutral, edgeguarding, etc. go it always looks like a solid but not mindblowing tool. Not a bad call though, and like I said, she was exceptionally difficult haha
It’s incredible to me how many smaller channels (>1000 subs) have been popping up making content for this game, and now the bigger channels are too (IzAw already made a new channel and guide video for the game as well) I love Smash, but Rivals 2 definitely feels like the new platform fighter taking over TH-cam. And I’m looking forward to it
This is a pretty agreeable list, even on some of the moves I wasn't thinking of at first, though I would like to add two things of my own For Loxodont, I know you don't tend to consider grab a move, but his is particularly useful because it does just about anything (combo starter, kill confirm, resource gathering, tech chasing, forcing opponents offstage or even just killing outright sometimes) on a character people are going to want to shield against due to his big and powerful disjoints Clairen's Neutral Special I think has the potential to be a really good move, it's just a little to early to tell given how free form it is. If it does become both a standard combo extender and a reliable kill option once people get more testing with it, I do think the argument is there that it preforms similarly to down air in more impactful situations
I kind of regret cutting the part of the video where I explicitly mention that I'm not including grabs and throws in this list. Rivals 2 generally has very good throw games overall, which makes it kind of boring to talk about and also less tempting to choose them when they're competing against other awesome throws.
I can understand using fair over neutral b for loxodont but I disagree. Neutral b has incredible potential as a move in neutral, advantage, edge guarding, combo starter and kill move. Also loxodont can set up neutral b pretty easily, his gameplan is to keep opponents away until he gets enough magma charges. So just by doing his gameplan he can get enough space to do neutral b
28:00 I just noticed that fleets doesn't use an arrow on her side-special, unlike her foward-strong she pulls back her bow without an arrow and just shoots air. That's probably why it doesnt trigger the neutral special buff but her jab does. Neat detail but it's still misleading.
I noticed that too and you're right that it's probably the justification, but tbf I don't really know what the wind charges are actually supposed to be or why they pair with arrows but not...wind arrows haha
@@MockRockTalkfleet doesn't naturally have wind powers, she instead uses an air gem (item from her debut game, dungeons of aether) to empower her bow, and she expends stamina (another mechanic from dungeons of aether) to use it it USED to be that expending stamina visually looked like a dice counting down (bc dungeons of aether was based in dice rolls), but that confused a lot of players who thought it was RNG, so they changed it to 6 icons to make it easier to understand (though tbh, some attacks being arrows and some attacks that look like arrows just being wind projectiles is still confusing to me)
I agree it's a bit unintuitive but also I think it's good for everyone's sanity that it doesn't _also_ apply a wind charge on top of everything else it does lmao
25:09. Ok, i know what you said about the whole "a characters defining gimmick move being their best one would feel like a cop-out". But its slipstream. Its 100% slipstream and its probably always gonna be slipstream. Slipstream is a falco laser that buffs your mobility like crazy on hit. Even on shield. Fstrong is really cool ya, and its a cornerstone of his combo game. But alot of solid setups into it either need slipstream to work or really appreciate having it. I have seen games where fstrong wasnt used, i have played games where fstrong wasn't used. But good luck finding a good wrastor playing for 10 seconds without trying to utilise slipstream. As strong as a kill move as it is, alot of setups work just as well into up or down strong. I do agree fstrong is his best strong, but slipstream is just cracked.
Really liked the video, really liked your explanation of your thought process. This was a good unique overview on each character that is rly helpful for a new rivals player.
I haven't personally played Rivals of Aether and haven't seen much about it, but I am really impressed with how creative all the characters and their unique mechanics/moves are!
Only one I disagree with is Ranno Dtilt. It’s often not safe on shield and at mid/high level you can CC or floorhug it to ungodly percents which everyone does so it’s usefulness falls off a bit. You can still get stilts of the side of a platform to get some extra reach for combos and stuff though
I legitimately wasn't sure how much to penalize crouch-cancellable moves in this video, it's a valid point for sure, it seems like even at top level the best Rannos make it work pretty consistently though
This is a pretty good list. The only ones I would change are Loxodont and Ranno. Lox’s up air is crazy especially if you fast fall it. It’s a huge disjointed overhead arc and you can keep opponents in the air for a ridiculous amount of time. Like you mentioned Ranno’s momentum is killed in the air but if you fast fall all of his moves he becomes ridiculously fast. His forward air so good. It hits so hard it’s basically an air smash attack and if you hit with the very bottom of it it spikes people as well.
Mockrock rivals 2 content is so peak. Ik you've had ur roots in more general plat fighter stuff, but I REALLY do hope that the content and game do well enough for this to at least be a part of the content schedule down the road (when olympia gets added, if her best move isn't nair i'm gonna be very anger with danic fornanic).
I'll be honest, I wasn't expecting Rivals of Aether 2 content, BUT MAN IS THIS A NICE SURPRISE, I LOVE RIVALS OF AETHER, I WOULD BE SO DOWN TO SEE MORE ROA CONTENT
Honestly, surprised you didn't mention Ranno forward air, has basically no sour spot, 80% of his kit combos into it, and it kills really early. And if you hit the spike hitbox it can kill even earlier than it already does. Also, the most consistent of his aerials.
Ranno's fair is folded into his "excellent aerials" comment. It's clearly a GREAT move, don't get me wrong, but doesn't do an outrageous amount in a vacuum, bair is arguably more abusable outside of kill confirm scenarios
Oh hey man, I'm pretty sure I fought your Clairen yesterday or the day before. Thanks for making my first match of the day a nightmare! :) Kidding of course.
I noticed you didn't mention it, figured I'd add a neat detail about Forsburn's Up Special, it's actually a little better when the smoke is out, if you direct where you spawn towards it, you'll not only drop out of it silently, but you'll actually be able to use it a second time, so smoke at the ledge gives you a second shot at getting back on stage.
28:02 The moves that don't apply the wind bomb she has are the moves that don't use physical arrows. Side special if you pay attention fires a gust of wind instead of an actual arrow, and this sort of wind arrow is also what's used by her forward throw which similarly doesn't apply the wind bomb as opposed to back throw which has a spread of physical arrows that do apply it. Also one niche property of side special that wasn't mentioned is that the tornado actually boosts Fleet upward if she uses her float into it, which gives it some utility in recovery, especially if she angles it downward through the ledge before going off stage for an edge guard.
As a note on the Maypul Tether combos, holding up is a DI 50/50 between up air and nair at some higher percents. She either nairs assuming you're holding up to get out of up air and kills you off the top, or she up air's you trying to DI the nair to live.
7:17 along with all that stuff about Clairen's Neutral Special, if you fully charge it, it turns into a Big Bang Attack, which while impractical, gets her MAJOR cool points.
Important rivals/melee trivia: reverse hits aren't really a thing. Whenever you see moves send in the opposite direction than they're supposed to, it's because you're being hit by the move while on the opposite side of your opponent. (i.e., being hit by clairen's fair while being behind clairen will send you further behind clairen)
Amazing video! I think that while FAir is REALLY strong, Rock just brings out so many mind games. Like, when you bring rock you not only have the options to throw it in certain angles, you can just... HOLD it. It has such insane frame data that you force your opponent to get into an uncomfortable position (diagonal above) and you can react to what your opponent will do. Will they rush you down? Throw forward. Will they jump at you? Neutral throw. Will they try to attack the rock, or anticipate your throw by waiting/parrying/shielding/etc? Hold it and watch them psych themselves out.
I play Ranno, you are right on the money with Dtilt. Certain percents, DI in and out kill. I would say Ranno's Dair is his most important move, but not necessarily his best. I was gonna say Loxodont Down B is by far his best move, because it directly leads to all of his kill confirms. But it mostly leads into Fair carry offs by acting as a 3rd jump lmao.
I really hope you make more content for this game; I love your style and think it’s perfectly suited to a game that is in many ways more “intentional” than Smash.
I'm new to Rivals and am super excited to see more content from you with it! Also may have fought you in Ranked lol. Was a Forsburn that went by "Cake Denson". Fought a Clarien named MockRock but you never know!
24:00 Maypul's up air is intentionally designed for opponents to be able to fall out of it after a tether. Including changes to the angle and increasing the SDI multiplier, and in Rivals 1 up air would double in knockback scaling specifically after a tether (I don't know if this is still the case for Rivals 2 as I cannot find it listed anywhere) and this is done for a key reason. To escape up air after a tether, you need to SDI up. But if you do that, you die to neutral air off the top. You need to DI away to live nair, but then you can't escape up air. It's a true 50/50 and it makes Maypul very lethal.
it's crazy seeing the mix of rivals 1 players, PM players, ult players, melee players, and other players just all joining to try out a new fighting game medium
as always, i get into the video thinking it's going to be a very linear one, but every attack is an opportunity for our boy to dive in what makes this game so fun, love it !
I have to say that Clairen's best move is jab imo. It combos to fstrong and is generally oppresive. The tipper breaks cc and you can't parry it the same way you can in other moves
I unironically could see that, there were a lot of close calls I decided to cut out of the discussion because...it's already a 30 minute video for 10 characters haha, and Clairen's jab was one of the last to go
Her jab not being tilt cancelable until late into the move def can have it's moments where it feels a bit hard to use due to not being as mashable of an option as basically every other character's jab
I feel like all of these are great moves and your explanations were insightful. but did anyone else notice how seemingly every character in this game has an incredibly good up tilt? that's the one move in everyone's kit that is really good. there are no bad or even mediocred up tilts in this game! so far
I want to give an honorable mentions to the first hit of Forsburn’s f-strong - for how much reach it has and how much it sets up into, it can feel _really_ annoying when they start spacing it well. I’d love to see a revisit to this idea later on into Rivals 2 - specially once the rest of the characters are added.
Nice video bro but when you do these list videos in the future could you please try to make the selected move clear and add the name or a clip of it on the corner of the screen while talking about the character. Cheers!
Loxs fair is definitely up there, but i honestly think his jab might be his best move. Its disjointed, fast, both jabs can combo into other moves, and it sends at a great angle for the meatball
So for Forsburn's best move I definitely do agree that Clone is by far his most important and probably best move but I really do think that back air deserves to be highlighted more as well. You mentioned that it's one of his best kill moves with how easy it is to throw out and how many kill confirms he has into it but I think that kind of move on a character like Forsburn who requires a lot of mindgames, setups, and proper spacing to take stocks otherwise with things like clone mixups and confirms, combustion inherently needing to be set up, and his strong attacks being a bit inconsistent due to either requiring proper spacing like fstrong and up strong or just being incredibly laggy and punishing like down strong is makes back air shine, especially with how damn strong that move is. Down air does also exist and that move is really good but it's not nearly as good a kill move as back air is unless you get some specific confirm into the spiking hitbox offstage or the opponent jumps into it like a moron. I've also been working on my own frame data spreadsheets for the game since I'm just a huge nerd who also worked on frame data and character resources for both nick brawl games and, while I haven't gotten Forsburn's frame data entirely done yet, I have done a lot of it and back air is -1 on block which is his safest aerial and most likely his safest move period (second being the spike hitbox of down air at -2). So we have ourselves a -1 on block incredibly strong kill move with tons of confirms into it that has pretty decent combo potential with the weak hit as well as the strong hit when landing at lower percents, and on top of that it is also incredibly active (f14-f27) with a pretty damn big hitbox. That move is crazy underrated imo. Like I said at the start I still think it goes to clone because it just does so much for the character but you do delve into some runner-ups a fair amount in this video and I wish back air got a bit more of a spotlight.
I haven't played rivals 2 yet, but as a rivals 1 Ranno main, I find myself using bair a little bit more, since is a extreamly fast aerial that works to kills, works to combo with it's two hit-boxes , and can do it in short hops. Althought down tilt still looks like a good candidate, since in Rivals every attack of every character is useful, so if you ask me his best move is between his bair, side b and down tilt. And his worst are side tilt, althought is still pretty useful, and his down smash in rivals 1 that only works to kill if you get a parry, since is his strongest attack, but is also his slowest and with tinnier hit-box one).
Since you rated the best moves of the elemental smash version (that is definitely not known for anything else more) time to rank every elemental move in smash!
DI up on maypul's up air does work for a while, but when you start getting to semi-reasonable kill %, it becomes a 50/50. If you DI up and she decides to mix with a tether nair instead of up air, you might get yourself killed.
I think Forsburn is really cool, even in Rivals 1. But I somehow never knew you could control the clone. I was like "NO WAY" and had to pause the video to go try it lmao. What a cool game
I get it, but MockRock videos typically take 2-3 weeks at a minimum to make, this was 2 days to film and 4 more to edit. It just makes more sense for a new game with hype around its release, and the smaller time investment also makes me much more willing to dip my toes into other games (this is my job after all)
@@MockRockTalk I'm not one to understand the statistics behind content creation, but I'm surprised it's working out for ya as well as it is for how infrequently you sometimes upload. Ik there's the supporter streams of revenue such as patreon and all but that's always been a mystery to me. I'm just glad it is cause man does this content rock.
I wanna say Ranno's fair or bair are contenders for his best move even with his slow air drift in mind. His bair is incredibly safe and lingers for so long, a lot of ranno players use it as a landing approach tool, as well as a lingering hitbox that ledgeguards the opponents. His fair on the other hand, is a 6f move that kills really early. By comparison, Wrastor's tilt fair is 8f, with other sub 10f fairs being more of poke tools. His fair use to kill even earlier during Kickstarter beta period, and it's been nerfed but it still hits like a truck for a move that's only 6f.
Personally i think fors' smoke is better than clone, NOT because it synergizes With his other moves, but because it is a camping tool that forces the opponent to throw out a move to destroy the smoke. Forsburn can then whiff punish whatever move you throw out. Any move that gets your opponent to take a risk and go to a particular part of the stage is really good. It's kind of like throwing a projectile.
Funny thing, I've actually been thinking about something similar to this in relation to the first game, the idea of who has the best move of each type (aerials, tilts, strongs, specials, etc). Was thinking about trying to mod an amalgamation of said moves into the theoretical best character (problem with that is just a shift in focus from objective best moves in a vacuum to trying to pick moves with synergy, then you just end up having 5 zetter moves lol). I already did one for the worst of each moves + awful stats, that was pretty funny.
Despite the overwhelming power of Zetter's "shine", it really does not function as well in the context of rivals 2. The abysmally low knockback means it loses to cc at almost every percent, so the combo starting opportunities don't really exist if the opponent knows the counterplay. A much stronger candidate might be up strong, for it is relatively fast, has combo potential at lower percents and kills pretty early at higher percents. Dash attack can also cancel directly into up strong, so landing it in a combo isn't unrealistic either
Thanks for watching everyone! Been having a blast with Rivals of Aether 2 so far, let me know your thoughts on the list (and the game overall if you're inclined). Couple corrections to make: I said Kragg can cancel out of Side Special in Rivals 2, but implied that he couldn't do this in RIvals 1 as well when what I meant is that it has more utility in the new game. As for Maypul's uair tether combos, getting hit by this is less of an exploit and more of losing a 50/50, since DI-ing up to fall out of the uair means that nair will kill you at high percents. Still a valid criticism of the move and doesn't change any rankings regardless, but worth mentioning.
*Main channel:* th-cam.com/users/mockrocktv
*Twitter:* twitter.com/MrMockRock
*Patreon:* www.patreon.com/mockrock
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*TimeBolt affiliate link* (excellent software I use to speed up editing on my videos, use code "MOCKROCK" for a discount): mockrock--timebolt.thrivecart.com/order-page/
Do you count lox as a heavyweight projectile Sword fighter?
Also 100% agree with your choice for orcane
20:18 you could cancel kragg side b in the same way in rivals one. Like which the parry button.
@@DAWGIESZ64 Misspoke a bit on this, I've added it to the pinned, thanks!
Since you play Clairen thought Id mention, I really think her best move is Bair. Theres the basic frame data stuff like tipper Bair being -1 on Shield and Bair Trains with Hit Fall. But the craziest thing is Rev. Bair, which I think is her best combo tool. You can just continually reset combos into grab with rev Bair. Since it barely moves the opponent at all, but adds 25-30 frames of hitstun, plus the low landing lag of Bair itself. At High %s you can combo it in the Air, into Neutral Special, and her other aerials (including itself). It even confirms into Dair around 100% which can be good off stage. The rev part is also not hard to hit
Mockrock is one of the few fighting game/platform fighter TH-camrs that doesn't make me feel like I'm getting hit in the face with a dictionary in another language
I've brought this up in the past: my grandmother watches my videos lol, I always have a good point of reference when deciding how technical to get
@@MockRockTalk I feel like you would proofread your videos/scripts, which is very good 👍
@MockRockTalk It's helped me learn to get better, even at other games.
@@MockRockTalkyour grandma could be a commentator at that point 😭
He doesn't make videos on fighting games though
One additional note about Orcane's nair. It's something absurd like -2 on shield with proper spacing, and on top of that there's the fact that you have mixups with all the different ways you can nairbounce
Ain't no way that thing isn't getting nerfed lmao
@@KrispyKorpsehe needs it
Hi Scebi! I knew I'd find you here
@@mauripops4184hi mauri lmao
@@KrispyKorpsehe needs it
I’m so hyped for rivals 2 content. This was a really fun video and I hope to see more!
Rivals 2 content is gonna go so hard if it is able to be more regular
Love how you called back to your old intro but instead of sylvanos it’s now clairen
The clairen dair foreshadowing... (the reference is honestly so cool, i missed it at first)
I can't wait for Sylvanos to be in this new game. Sylvanos is by far my favorite from the other game and I couldn't really tell ya why
@ same, love his back air reminds me of corrin
Personally I feel like Kragg's best move can't be anything but Rock, it is way too important to his identity as a character, his space control, his ranged play, his edgeguards and kill setups, and if we add Rock Pull into it as a command grab then it's no question. But Fair is infamous for a reason so I can see the argument
Rivals 3 should go from classical elements to modern elements and have a roster of 118 characters
Trve...
uranium character boutta be brawl meta knight
Can’t wait for Rutherfordium and Ununbium character
Gonna replace workshop with alchemy or someshit
@@noivernblast3366 Ununbium has a real name now, it’s Copernicium. All 118 elements have been discovered and named, so there’s no placeholder names on the periodic table until elements from the next period are synthesised.
The Clairen in the intro now is super cool
Really happy to see you're enjoying Rivals 2! I'm glad to see that Forsburn's clone got even more applications in this game as it was a fun part to use in his kit in the original IMO, so seeing it expanded even more is exciting.
7:27 I couldn't help but hear this as "Dan Air".😆
Brooooo this comment havin me dying. Danwards aerial goes crazy (danwards fornanwards)
RIVALS 2 CONTENT, YES, PLEASE DO MORE
We love to see it
rivals 2 is so damn fun, it's the only fighting game I've ever played where every character is fun to play with and fun to play against
I can't get onboard with this while the weasel is in the game but I like your spirit 👍
you clearly haven't played against a maypul yet
There’s no characters in rivals 2 that are fun to play against.
@@MockRockTalk I find this funny because I remember playing Maypul against your Clairen way back in the May beta
Bro you are like mentally insane for not finding fighting against even a single rivals 2 character to be anything less than pure torture. That's crazy
I'm so excited for more Rivals 2 content, this was a really interesting video!
Love to see you branching into rivals 2! hope to see more
Same.
Always enjoy seeing more high quality Plat Fighter content.
Been an Orcane main since the first Rivals of Aether and neutral air was always one of the most fun moves of his in my opinion. I was worried at first that neutral air would've been worse in the sequel given how moves like up air and up tilt got hit.
Good to know that I worried over nothing, to say the least.
Lol i've seen the most complaints about dtilt not being well, r1 orcane dtilt lol. But honestly orcane in this game feels real nice.
I remember in roa1 always combining orcane down tilt into back air on di out, did they get rid of instant turnaround aerials or is down tilt just that slow now?
@@PlaylistMaker4You Dtilt is much less mashable and has a much more outwards sourspot. + the difference in physics systems just makes things flow different
They also ruined the back air active frames there’s no weak lingering hitbox anymore
I don't want to give Maypul's up air a boost for recovery for the same reason we don't talk about everyone's up special being the most important to their kit. It's good, but her horizontal kills with tether nair are actually true, and it's very safe on shield (it was +1 in the early betas, I think it's -1 now), so I'd choose it.
I was expecting Seed Toss, but you chose to explicitly ignore setup moves like Slipstream or Droplet, so I'd agree there.
(Glad to see Rivals a part of the intro again! I remember being sad about Sylvanos getting cut.)
Nair was on the shortlist for sure, when I watch Maypuls in action though it just seems a bit...reasonable? The tether confirms are obviously great, but there aren't typically a ton of those in a match (and the ones that exist are often initiated with uair), and as far as neutral, edgeguarding, etc. go it always looks like a solid but not mindblowing tool. Not a bad call though, and like I said, she was exceptionally difficult haha
It’s incredible to me how many smaller channels (>1000 subs) have been popping up making content for this game, and now the bigger channels are too (IzAw already made a new channel and guide video for the game as well)
I love Smash, but Rivals 2 definitely feels like the new platform fighter taking over TH-cam. And I’m looking forward to it
Lets just hope this steam has longevity
@@KrispyKorpse if steam workshop is in the works, it will.
@captainmega6310 3d models are gonna make workshoping for r2 so difficult
This is legit the kind of video I’ve been wanting for so long. I LOVE IT! Also you are just a great content creator so this just awesome.
We wanna see MOOOREEE (FR)
so excited for rivals content, you're one of my favourite content creators
Bro's spittin facts
This is a pretty agreeable list, even on some of the moves I wasn't thinking of at first, though I would like to add two things of my own
For Loxodont, I know you don't tend to consider grab a move, but his is particularly useful because it does just about anything (combo starter, kill confirm, resource gathering, tech chasing, forcing opponents offstage or even just killing outright sometimes) on a character people are going to want to shield against due to his big and powerful disjoints
Clairen's Neutral Special I think has the potential to be a really good move, it's just a little to early to tell given how free form it is. If it does become both a standard combo extender and a reliable kill option once people get more testing with it, I do think the argument is there that it preforms similarly to down air in more impactful situations
I kind of regret cutting the part of the video where I explicitly mention that I'm not including grabs and throws in this list. Rivals 2 generally has very good throw games overall, which makes it kind of boring to talk about and also less tempting to choose them when they're competing against other awesome throws.
@@MockRockTalk Throws with the factor of spummels and all that nonsense def seem a bit weird if they'd been included
Orcane’s huge spotdodge dash thing is called the wavezoom. Don’t forget it.
Will double check with orcacord on the name for that one
@ I mean it’s not the official name, but it’s so whimsical and funny and fits orcane. Just zoooooooom.
@@KrispyKorpse I've seen Hydroslide
I can understand using fair over neutral b for loxodont but I disagree.
Neutral b has incredible potential as a move in neutral, advantage, edge guarding, combo starter and kill move.
Also loxodont can set up neutral b pretty easily, his gameplan is to keep opponents away until he gets enough magma charges. So just by doing his gameplan he can get enough space to do neutral b
Yeah the Devs did say they intended for lox to be a more zonery character
@@notmyfullname598they failed
Your thumb is a sign that im not putting enough time into the game
Also slight intro edit to accompany rivals 2 is awesome
Bro don't do ur thumb like that man
Love the Rivals 2 content, keep it coming.
Do please
28:00 I just noticed that fleets doesn't use an arrow on her side-special, unlike her foward-strong she pulls back her bow without an arrow and just shoots air. That's probably why it doesnt trigger the neutral special buff but her jab does. Neat detail but it's still misleading.
Same idea with dstrong and fthrow, they don't use a physical arrow
I noticed that too and you're right that it's probably the justification, but tbf I don't really know what the wind charges are actually supposed to be or why they pair with arrows but not...wind arrows haha
@@MockRockTalk I agree, the charge also causes the BOW to glow, not the arrow (well, the icon does on the UI now)
@@MockRockTalkfleet doesn't naturally have wind powers, she instead uses an air gem (item from her debut game, dungeons of aether) to empower her bow, and she expends stamina (another mechanic from dungeons of aether) to use it
it USED to be that expending stamina visually looked like a dice counting down (bc dungeons of aether was based in dice rolls), but that confused a lot of players who thought it was RNG, so they changed it to 6 icons to make it easier to understand (though tbh, some attacks being arrows and some attacks that look like arrows just being wind projectiles is still confusing to me)
I agree it's a bit unintuitive but also I think it's good for everyone's sanity that it doesn't _also_ apply a wind charge on top of everything else it does lmao
Such great insight into strong tools within greater character systems. Thank you!
25:09. Ok, i know what you said about the whole "a characters defining gimmick move being their best one would feel like a cop-out". But its slipstream. Its 100% slipstream and its probably always gonna be slipstream.
Slipstream is a falco laser that buffs your mobility like crazy on hit. Even on shield. Fstrong is really cool ya, and its a cornerstone of his combo game. But alot of solid setups into it either need slipstream to work or really appreciate having it. I have seen games where fstrong wasnt used, i have played games where fstrong wasn't used. But good luck finding a good wrastor playing for 10 seconds without trying to utilise slipstream. As strong as a kill move as it is, alot of setups work just as well into up or down strong. I do agree fstrong is his best strong, but slipstream is just cracked.
I've been hoping for Rivals content from you ever since you started, I'm real glad ot see it happening!
7:21 hehe “the future of Clairen”
Really liked the video, really liked your explanation of your thought process. This was a good unique overview on each character that is rly helpful for a new rivals player.
This is awesome! I'll definitely have to look into Rivals 2. Thanks for the preview.
I want to hug Dan for making an elephant super heavy with a big funny weapon and a meatball projectile.
Clairen getting hit by Dark Pit side b in the intro is great lmao
I’d love to see more rivals content on this channel, i also want to say I love your content
I haven't personally played Rivals of Aether and haven't seen much about it, but I am really impressed with how creative all the characters and their unique mechanics/moves are!
Only one I disagree with is Ranno Dtilt. It’s often not safe on shield and at mid/high level you can CC or floorhug it to ungodly percents which everyone does so it’s usefulness falls off a bit. You can still get stilts of the side of a platform to get some extra reach for combos and stuff though
I legitimately wasn't sure how much to penalize crouch-cancellable moves in this video, it's a valid point for sure, it seems like even at top level the best Rannos make it work pretty consistently though
This is a pretty good list. The only ones I would change are Loxodont and Ranno.
Lox’s up air is crazy especially if you fast fall it. It’s a huge disjointed overhead arc and you can keep opponents in the air for a ridiculous amount of time.
Like you mentioned Ranno’s momentum is killed in the air but if you fast fall all of his moves he becomes ridiculously fast. His forward air so good. It hits so hard it’s basically an air smash attack and if you hit with the very bottom of it it spikes people as well.
We definitely disagree on a huge majority of these but I appreciate the level of detail and the effort that went into the content, great job
I'm curious as to which ones in particular
Mockrock rivals 2 content is so peak. Ik you've had ur roots in more general plat fighter stuff, but I REALLY do hope that the content and game do well enough for this to at least be a part of the content schedule down the road (when olympia gets added, if her best move isn't nair i'm gonna be very anger with danic fornanic).
Awsome video as always! I'd love to see more of rivals of aether 2
YAY RIVALS OF AETHER 2 CONTENT FINALY WOOOOOO
lesgooooo
Excited to see more rivals content
I'll be honest, I wasn't expecting Rivals of Aether 2 content, BUT MAN IS THIS A NICE SURPRISE, I LOVE RIVALS OF AETHER, I WOULD BE SO DOWN TO SEE MORE ROA CONTENT
Uhhh, I confused. Mockrock loves heavyweight projectile sword fighters. Funny elephant is exactly that. Mockrock plays futuristic Marth instead
great vídeo about Rivals!
Please keep up the rivals content!!! Please!!!
Honestly, surprised you didn't mention Ranno forward air, has basically no sour spot, 80% of his kit combos into it, and it kills really early. And if you hit the spike hitbox it can kill even earlier than it already does. Also, the most consistent of his aerials.
Ranno's fair is folded into his "excellent aerials" comment. It's clearly a GREAT move, don't get me wrong, but doesn't do an outrageous amount in a vacuum, bair is arguably more abusable outside of kill confirm scenarios
Lol i was thinking to myself that when I saw ranno fair in basically every clip that had dtilt in it lol
Loving this game and exitedly waiting for new characters to come out. (Mollo got confirmed a bit ago so my main cant be that far away.)
Moyo when the bomb bombs bombing bombing the with bombs (he has bombs)
Oh hey man, I'm pretty sure I fought your Clairen yesterday or the day before. Thanks for making my first match of the day a nightmare! :)
Kidding of course.
14:53 can we talk about this sick fireball shot tho
Loxodont is my current main so I will be learning this trick immediately
I noticed you didn't mention it, figured I'd add a neat detail about Forsburn's Up Special, it's actually a little better when the smoke is out, if you direct where you spawn towards it, you'll not only drop out of it silently, but you'll actually be able to use it a second time, so smoke at the ledge gives you a second shot at getting back on stage.
28:02 The moves that don't apply the wind bomb she has are the moves that don't use physical arrows. Side special if you pay attention fires a gust of wind instead of an actual arrow, and this sort of wind arrow is also what's used by her forward throw which similarly doesn't apply the wind bomb as opposed to back throw which has a spread of physical arrows that do apply it. Also one niche property of side special that wasn't mentioned is that the tornado actually boosts Fleet upward if she uses her float into it, which gives it some utility in recovery, especially if she angles it downward through the ledge before going off stage for an edge guard.
As a note on the Maypul Tether combos, holding up is a DI 50/50 between up air and nair at some higher percents. She either nairs assuming you're holding up to get out of up air and kills you off the top, or she up air's you trying to DI the nair to live.
7:17 along with all that stuff about Clairen's Neutral Special, if you fully charge it, it turns into a Big Bang Attack, which while impractical, gets her MAJOR cool points.
Important rivals/melee trivia: reverse hits aren't really a thing. Whenever you see moves send in the opposite direction than they're supposed to, it's because you're being hit by the move while on the opposite side of your opponent. (i.e., being hit by clairen's fair while being behind clairen will send you further behind clairen)
i caught that rivals 2 update to the mockrock intro!
Too bad it's not Sylvanos returning to remake the old intro
@@GammaFn. I mean clairen will suffice for now tbf
Amazing video! I think that while FAir is REALLY strong, Rock just brings out so many mind games. Like, when you bring rock you not only have the options to throw it in certain angles, you can just... HOLD it. It has such insane frame data that you force your opponent to get into an uncomfortable position (diagonal above) and you can react to what your opponent will do. Will they rush you down? Throw forward. Will they jump at you? Neutral throw. Will they try to attack the rock, or anticipate your throw by waiting/parrying/shielding/etc? Hold it and watch them psych themselves out.
Rock may be in cop out territory
I play Ranno, you are right on the money with Dtilt. Certain percents, DI in and out kill. I would say Ranno's Dair is his most important move, but not necessarily his best.
I was gonna say Loxodont Down B is by far his best move, because it directly leads to all of his kill confirms. But it mostly leads into Fair carry offs by acting as a 3rd jump lmao.
I really hope you make more content for this game; I love your style and think it’s perfectly suited to a game that is in many ways more “intentional” than Smash.
iagreeiagreeiagreeiagreeiagreeiagree, more rivals content could be peak
I'm new to Rivals and am super excited to see more content from you with it!
Also may have fought you in Ranked lol. Was a Forsburn that went by "Cake Denson". Fought a Clarien named MockRock but you never know!
24:00 Maypul's up air is intentionally designed for opponents to be able to fall out of it after a tether. Including changes to the angle and increasing the SDI multiplier, and in Rivals 1 up air would double in knockback scaling specifically after a tether (I don't know if this is still the case for Rivals 2 as I cannot find it listed anywhere) and this is done for a key reason. To escape up air after a tether, you need to SDI up. But if you do that, you die to neutral air off the top. You need to DI away to live nair, but then you can't escape up air. It's a true 50/50 and it makes Maypul very lethal.
Great video!
Yooooo my boy Mow_Kitty was the Zetterburn you used as the example for the Shine. He's so good.
it's crazy seeing the mix of rivals 1 players, PM players, ult players, melee players, and other players just all joining to try out a new fighting game medium
@@KrispyKorpse the true "EVERYONE IS HERE" aha
as always, i get into the video thinking it's going to be a very linear one, but every attack is an opportunity for our boy to dive in what makes this game so fun, love it !
I have to say that Clairen's best move is jab imo. It combos to fstrong and is generally oppresive. The tipper breaks cc and you can't parry it the same way you can in other moves
I unironically could see that, there were a lot of close calls I decided to cut out of the discussion because...it's already a 30 minute video for 10 characters haha, and Clairen's jab was one of the last to go
Her jab not being tilt cancelable until late into the move def can have it's moments where it feels a bit hard to use due to not being as mashable of an option as basically every other character's jab
I feel like all of these are great moves and your explanations were insightful.
but did anyone else notice how seemingly every character in this game has an incredibly good up tilt? that's the one move in everyone's kit that is really good. there are no bad or even mediocred up tilts in this game! so far
I wonder if the opening would ever be updated with rivals characters had it alongside some of the smash characters.
clairen is there
I want to give an honorable mentions to the first hit of Forsburn’s f-strong - for how much reach it has and how much it sets up into, it can feel _really_ annoying when they start spacing it well.
I’d love to see a revisit to this idea later on into Rivals 2 - specially once the rest of the characters are added.
Clairen getting slammed by electroshock arm is funny for some reason
Thank you MockRock for teaching me the move I need to be mashing for every character
awesome video 🔥🔥🤙🤠
YES!!!!! THE MOCKROCKTALK RIVALS 2 CONTENT IS HERE!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
WE WANT MOOOREEEEE RAAAHHHHHH
It is AGONY watching everyone having fun with the brand new rivals game while i dont have anything that can run windows.
Nice video bro but when you do these list videos in the future could you please try to make the selected move clear and add the name or a clip of it on the corner of the screen while talking about the character.
Cheers!
"The game beat me bois"
Loxs fair is definitely up there, but i honestly think his jab might be his best move. Its disjointed, fast, both jabs can combo into other moves, and it sends at a great angle for the meatball
So for Forsburn's best move I definitely do agree that Clone is by far his most important and probably best move but I really do think that back air deserves to be highlighted more as well. You mentioned that it's one of his best kill moves with how easy it is to throw out and how many kill confirms he has into it but I think that kind of move on a character like Forsburn who requires a lot of mindgames, setups, and proper spacing to take stocks otherwise with things like clone mixups and confirms, combustion inherently needing to be set up, and his strong attacks being a bit inconsistent due to either requiring proper spacing like fstrong and up strong or just being incredibly laggy and punishing like down strong is makes back air shine, especially with how damn strong that move is. Down air does also exist and that move is really good but it's not nearly as good a kill move as back air is unless you get some specific confirm into the spiking hitbox offstage or the opponent jumps into it like a moron. I've also been working on my own frame data spreadsheets for the game since I'm just a huge nerd who also worked on frame data and character resources for both nick brawl games and, while I haven't gotten Forsburn's frame data entirely done yet, I have done a lot of it and back air is -1 on block which is his safest aerial and most likely his safest move period (second being the spike hitbox of down air at -2). So we have ourselves a -1 on block incredibly strong kill move with tons of confirms into it that has pretty decent combo potential with the weak hit as well as the strong hit when landing at lower percents, and on top of that it is also incredibly active (f14-f27) with a pretty damn big hitbox. That move is crazy underrated imo.
Like I said at the start I still think it goes to clone because it just does so much for the character but you do delve into some runner-ups a fair amount in this video and I wish back air got a bit more of a spotlight.
The shield frame data on moves in this game is just rediculous. I wanna see more frame data docs once they're out
NEVER thought Id hear MockRock come through with the GenZ "Bro's not..." speak like oh he's ONLINE online got it
I haven't played rivals 2 yet, but as a rivals 1 Ranno main, I find myself using bair a little bit more, since is a extreamly fast aerial that works to kills, works to combo with it's two hit-boxes , and can do it in short hops. Althought down tilt still looks like a good candidate, since in Rivals every attack of every character is useful, so if you ask me his best move is between his bair, side b and down tilt.
And his worst are side tilt, althought is still pretty useful, and his down smash in rivals 1 that only works to kill if you get a parry, since is his strongest attack, but is also his slowest and with tinnier hit-box one).
Just gotta play through the pain man. I got a blister and then broke through that blister and now my skin is scarred, hardened and ready for combat.
ranno fair is an absolutely evil move because its insanely fast, kills very early, and is essentially immune to di
I think these are pretty good choices. Contender for kragg is definitely just rock in general but fair is a good choice as well
Rock and fair are both iconic
Oh god, not the hand injury
Ah yes Mock rock with the ROA2 content right when i needed it
Since you rated the best moves of the elemental smash version (that is definitely not known for anything else more) time to rank every elemental move in smash!
Best fire move: pk fire (it's in the name)
@KrispyKorpse could holy water perhaps be considered better
@@Eroil that's an aura attack
@@KrispyKorpse what about Simon's holy water
DI up on maypul's up air does work for a while, but when you start getting to semi-reasonable kill %, it becomes a 50/50. If you DI up and she decides to mix with a tether nair instead of up air, you might get yourself killed.
Maypul when she the helicopter
Did you consider getup/ledge/pummel special in the ranking? Or did the situational usage pretty much invalidate their chances?
I think Forsburn is really cool, even in Rivals 1. But I somehow never knew you could control the clone. I was like "NO WAY" and had to pause the video to go try it lmao. What a cool game
wasting a good mockrock idea on a good mockrocktalk idea 😔
I get it, but MockRock videos typically take 2-3 weeks at a minimum to make, this was 2 days to film and 4 more to edit. It just makes more sense for a new game with hype around its release, and the smaller time investment also makes me much more willing to dip my toes into other games (this is my job after all)
@@MockRockTalk I'm not one to understand the statistics behind content creation, but I'm surprised it's working out for ya as well as it is for how infrequently you sometimes upload. Ik there's the supporter streams of revenue such as patreon and all but that's always been a mystery to me. I'm just glad it is cause man does this content rock.
You CAN float cancel either fleet, people just haven’t figured out what to do with it yet. I bet they will though, soon
NEW INTRO YEEEEEEAAAAAHHHHH
I think the rivals community has gotten to me every time I heard you talk about down air I heard Dan Air
I wanna say Ranno's fair or bair are contenders for his best move even with his slow air drift in mind. His bair is incredibly safe and lingers for so long, a lot of ranno players use it as a landing approach tool, as well as a lingering hitbox that ledgeguards the opponents. His fair on the other hand, is a 6f move that kills really early. By comparison, Wrastor's tilt fair is 8f, with other sub 10f fairs being more of poke tools. His fair use to kill even earlier during Kickstarter beta period, and it's been nerfed but it still hits like a truck for a move that's only 6f.
Welcome back to the intro Rivals :)
Personally i think fors' smoke is better than clone, NOT because it synergizes With his other moves, but because it is a camping tool that forces the opponent to throw out a move to destroy the smoke. Forsburn can then whiff punish whatever move you throw out. Any move that gets your opponent to take a risk and go to a particular part of the stage is really good. It's kind of like throwing a projectile.
Funny thing, I've actually been thinking about something similar to this in relation to the first game, the idea of who has the best move of each type (aerials, tilts, strongs, specials, etc). Was thinking about trying to mod an amalgamation of said moves into the theoretical best character (problem with that is just a shift in focus from objective best moves in a vacuum to trying to pick moves with synergy, then you just end up having 5 zetter moves lol). I already did one for the worst of each moves + awful stats, that was pretty funny.
This seems like a surprisingly good primer for a new player.
Yes pls more rivals content!!
Despite the overwhelming power of Zetter's "shine", it really does not function as well in the context of rivals 2. The abysmally low knockback means it loses to cc at almost every percent, so the combo starting opportunities don't really exist if the opponent knows the counterplay. A much stronger candidate might be up strong, for it is relatively fast, has combo potential at lower percents and kills pretty early at higher percents. Dash attack can also cancel directly into up strong, so landing it in a combo isn't unrealistic either
Maypuls tether combo near the top blast zone are actually a 50/50 if you hold up Maypul can nair and it kills, down though the nair will wiff