Hitchens: religion as the source of immorality.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- Turek vs. Hitchens at VCU in Richmond, VA complete at:
www.vimeo.com/1...
Here Hitchens makes his arguments about religion as source of immorality.
At 4:01 he makes an interesting point concerning the question by the religious of "something out of nothing" drawing on the physicist Lawrence M. Krauss: if the universe is developing in a way that obscures its origins than this explains that it didn't sprung from "nothing" but is rather now in a stadium that we just cannot comprehend anything "beyond" the big bang with the data we have now.
I'm not a physicist, so feel free to correct me if I understood this wrong.
![[Full Episode] The Restaurant War Thailand ศึกพ่อค้าซ่าแม่ค้าแซ่บ Episode 4 | 13 ต.ค. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/h8N9tY46P-M/mqdefault.jpg)
i love listening to Hitchens debate, because he didn't put his opponents down to raise himself up. He invited them to his level and then slaughtered them there until they had no choice but to crawl back to the lowly level of ignorance where they felt more comfortable.
@Jazzkeyboardist1 i believe you are the stupid one.
@Jazzkeyboardist1 "atheists hate science" might be on par with "there is a god" as one of the most idiotic sentences a human being has ever uttered.
Jazzkeyboardist1 there is help available. I wish you the best.
The vitriol and anger that is conjured up when you question their fairy tale never stops amusing me.
Hitchens is screaming in a bad place & it's by his own pride ego & stupidity
Turek's entire "moral argument" is basically, "I would have an existential crisis if there was no god, so it must exist."
Atheism's 2nd greatest weakness is that this belief system has no formal code of justice nor moral code.
@@prophettoatheists8057 David Hume (q.v.) "all morality is enlightened self interest".
@@helpmaboabb
Unworkable. Society must have control over self interests as law and order is required to prevent chaos.
So morality to DH is just a taste bud thing?
Everyone just do what is "right" in one's own self interest
There is no ultimate "right or wrong?"
@@prophettoatheists8057 you don't u understand. Christian morality is completely unable to explain highly-developed social order among societies which never heard of god. They realised enlightened self-interest, or "do as you would be done by" led to a stable society.
@@prophettoatheists8057 The greatest weakness of theism is the fact that they can’t prove any god exists. 🤡
You should learn what atheism means before you TRY to discuss it. Atheism is not a belief system.
'from the archbishop of canterbury to even lower people'
very apt.
So funny!!!
Towering intellect and an honest and courageous man.
Ruth Giles courageous...Bahahahaha
I picked up a flaw in logic, logic's flaw is that it uses reasoning by only allowing one to be a saint, being a saint doesn't make something true, therefore logic's not true, so Christopher Hitchens isn't telling the truth, he's only telling truths about evil, anti-illogical argument, rather than reason, which is not logical but uses logical elements. He pretends logic is valid reasoning, but with the following argument I should persuade you as to why neither Christopher Hitchens is right, nor being religion is wrong: religious people are only believing things to be true based on what's reliable, e.g. what works, it therefore follows that if the proposition is true and they believe it's true, then it's reliable, Christopher Hitchens's denial isn't a reliable process of dissuading religion, using a rationalist argument I'd say: that if A experiences evil religion and B experiences a religious concept, then B isn't deriving the concept from A's experience, therefore it's rational to be dissuaded away from believing Christopher Hitchens, and not persuaded by his arguments.
@Jazzkeyboardist1
Someone's private life is nobody's business. It's entirely different if you are arrested in an airport bathroom. Are sued in a high profile court case or outed by the paparazzi. Privacy is not cowardice. Hitchens was not a sexual revolutionary. Otherwise he would have been out and proud as a bisexual.
You have been deceived.
He thought Jihad meant holy War 😂😂😂😂
Christopher Hitchenson never fails to convince me. His thoughts are so well articulated. His words so well chosen, so appropriate and rings with such honesty. I love this man. We are so blessed to have had him walk this earth.
Seems the only thing he didn't convince you of is how to spell his last name. 😦
What an incredible mind...what an incredible man. He will always be my champion.
Don't you have family or friends?
I feel like I should always have a dictionary with me when I listen to Hitchens
fred dinkelberg I've learned so much in the first 3 months listening let alone the last 3 years and I actually did this when listening to him 😂💯
That's why he's so good, such knowledge and articulation. A brilliant man indeed.
Then you should have the whole library when listening to Sam Harris vs Jordan Peterson debates
@@shiskeyoffles Are you serious...? We at least need a library in every language for this amazing man.
How pleasing it is to hear of someone who is willing to learn and enrich his mind through the spark of this man’s intellect, and who acknowledges that he needs to do so
I come back to listen to Hitchens from time to time. I miss him, his mind and charisma and humor. What a shame he is not with us anymore.
But he left us with a lot to think about and consider. His wisdom will stand the test of time because we’re still watching and commenting today.
I miss him as well. And you can check it out: the world started to go to hell (figuratively) when he passed.
Bravo, Hitch! This is exactly why religions need to “get to them while they’re young”. Without the crippling fear instilled as youngsters, most adult versions of the same human would be able to steer themselves clear of the emotional abuse and spiritual blackmail imposed by the messianic (Western, Abrahamic) religions.
There are a lot of other known dangerous things which we steer kids away from until they can know what it's about and make up their own mind.
Just don't say anything against circumcision or religion being forced on kids too young to make up their own mind. You're oppressing their free religious expression.
@@JFrazer4303 Huh?
It is because Christianity provides a formal code for justice that the Western regions thrive.
Atheism"s 2nd weakness is that this belief system has no formal code of justice.
Christianity requires freedom of the will to choose. I freely choose.
Atheism offers an "escape" into an illusion and out of reality.
@@prophettoatheists8057I noticed that you are r3tarded. Another one....
ATHEISM IS LIBERATING AND EMPOWERING... I'm so glad, I am no longer a brainwashed irrationalist, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY I AM NOT ALONE. Grow Atheist Community, Grow!!
Most religion is literally interpeted for you by people who want to force their views on you in which case they dare not even care to explain their views, rather they toss the word faith at you so you can then be walked like the dumbass dog they want you to be. Because literally they hate themselves and their life. Sorry but that's just how I see it all breaking down.
Not that I don't look at Feminism the same way. If you recall the Bible was used to justify anything and everything back in the so called civil war years. That book is about mind enslavement. Not about knowledge. They would rather see you locked up then actually find your way on this planet. People are literally kaniving pieces of shit. Remember that.
❤️
Atheism is no different from religion..it is just another belief..drop any form of belief and experience TRUE FREEDOM
basil phillips Being an Atheism is not the same as an religion. It doesn’t claim to know things. Religious believe there is a god and says it knows things it clearly can’t know. An atheist isn’t an belief. It’s just saying you don’t think there is a god. Religion claims to know things, has dogma. It’s just saying I’m not going to believe in something that there is no good reason to believe in it.
Like Alpert Einstein said in his "God letter": All religions are the incarnation of the most childish superstition.
*Albert
So Albert Einstein did not know everything.
So Albert is human and is wrong.
Atheism is build on an illusion.
@@prophettoatheists8057 Would you mind explaining how atheism is built on an illusion?
Thank you for quoting that it's nice to see that even a genius like Albert Einstein can say stupid jackass things from time to time
That last statement, wow. That might be the greatest speech against religion I've ever heard
If you could hear him now, he might be giving the greatest speech for Christianity.
@MAD GRUMPYMAN what do you mean that his ass is stunted like is it really tiny or is there no fat on it and it's just like the bone also that sounds like a disability I think it's really messed up that if somebody says something you don't like you make fun of their disability and one last question and this is the question that frightens me most of all how do you know so much about this person's ass
@@prophettoatheists8057 give it up, your religion is bullshit and you know it.
@@prophettoatheists8057 Why would he do that?
I don't know if they ever met, but I have a feeling Hitchens would be tearing into Jordan Peterson, if he were still alive.
He got away by the skin of his teeth, I would've loved to see him get Hitch slapped.
To even compare them in the same breath is itself a disgrace.
Hitchens Is immeasurably more intelligent
I imagine if he were alive they would be pitted against each other in the same way that peterson and harris have. Hitch would have completely exposed him for the utter sham he is
Jordan Peterson is on a different intellectual level that really tries to find the truth. I think Hitchens, while not fully agree, but appreciate the intellectual honesty and thought process Peterson would exhibit. I believe they both would have come away with a new dimension of thought to ponder and debate. Just my take.
I miss you Hitch.
When I was a child I didn't feel like going to church. The local nuns therefore stopped inviting my family to the village's parties and gatherings, then stopped me out of school one day, and one of them told me I was evil and I was going to burn in hell. I was 6.
That's the "love" of the religious for you
You were a bright child. Good for you!
@@schmetterling4477 bright, I don't know, but definitely not liking the general attitude there ☺️
@@donniecatalano I became an atheist at age eight in a church and during mass. It became obvious to me that all of what was happening there was bullshit. Not much to it, really. ;-)
To be 100% sincere here I've given up on praying to Joe Pesci long ago. Been praying to Hitchens for many years now.
Alcibiades What about the lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat’s testicles? Is she involved too?
Yes, Kitty, she is definitely involved, she is my wife.
Alcibiades Good to hear it. I myself have been reading The Three Little Pigs, Little Red Riding Hood, and Humpty Dumpty for moral and spiritual advice.
Thank You for a great laugh, Kitty.
im sure we can get along even tho I personally am however a sun worshipper.
you should try it....and perhaps become a sun worshipper overnight
I pray to Joe Pesci, but Hitchens is next in line. ;)
I see what you did there. 😉
2:46 - Oh Christopher how we miss you when you said things like this. Just brilliant.
I miss Christopher, one of the few humans with a lick of common sense 🥲
This man is just.... WOW🖤
Hitchens will be revered in centuries to come! He’s absolutely 100% correct!
Hitchens was a great man and a true humanitarian.
Well reasoned yet not condescending. A gentleman and a scholar. What a rare point of enlightenment; his life, logic and wit. My sincere hope is that his memory and philosophy will continue on. We have lost an inspiration.
Hitchens in full flight,brilliant.
What most theists dislike about this man,is the FACT that he speaks the TRUTH.Truth prevails,enough siad
It is true, there are no moral restrain on us, good people do good things for sake of doign the a good thing, while a bad person must get seomthing in return for doing a good thing, like getting to heaven or paradise :)
The atheist has the illusion that there is no moral restraint on himself. The rest of us feel differently.
All people are sinners. None "good" in themselves.
Hitch - what a legend, his clips are by far the best on youtube
"No child's behind left" 😂😂😂
Ordered to love someone whom you also must fear... Right, seems legit.
Love + Fear = Respect. Not defending religion, simply stating the obvious.
De Oliveira Damien can’t disagree with that
@@sreekargunda3915 What if you're in awe?
@@deoliveiradamien7192Love + fear = masocasicm. Respect is earned and does not live in the realm of fear.
Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, "yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up must come down, down. down. Amen!" If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.
End of the speech.
Everyone: clapping
Turek:
And drunk. Very very drunk. And yet, completely correct ALL the time. It's really amazing, isn't it?
He's not completely correct, conformity even to Christopher Hitchens is the aversion of self-reliance. He's believing what a great many people believe, but it's not true, Jesus was born of a virgin, Force= mass x acceleration, it's a scientific fact, as medicine is a science, it's a medical issue rather than a matter of persuasion by logic, therefore religion is true, but it's a truth nobody believes except the believer. I say not to trifle with the gods, Lucifer's the light, pure utter atheism, is blasphemy, what I can say about God is that the Biblical God isn't reliable, isn't true, and is perfectly evil, the Supreme Being, well done, but that doesn't mean I can be irreligious and expect to find truth in that, antitheism isn't antireligion, it's an irreligion, just as you can be religious and an atheist. It's the Catholic church which we need to reject, contemplative religious institutions that are doing nothing positive for the community, and education denied of priests, anticlericalism is more valid an argument than antireligion. I can't be persuaded by Christopher Hitchens just from his saying so, I have evidence to back up religious belief.
EscpdFrmPsykward I have to think extremely hard to name an interesting man who does not drink 🤔
Are you drunk?
I sure wish He was still here!
To he who posted this video and your comment. Your understanding is SPOT ON and I like it - you have inferred something beyond what Hitch said yet that is what I believe you can conclude. Hitch was a legend and an inspiration for all.
There will never ever be another Hitchens. A unique eloquent historian & exceptional orator.
You forgot the big one, absurd. He was absurd believing we got the universe and all that's in it, naturally, no God needed.
Why do you keep saying that I say "you have to believe in order to see it?" If you want to discuss something, use your mind; don't throw irrelevant comments at me. Look at yourself. You are not a ghost. Then realize there are not objects without you and other subjects. That is a real and well-known philosophical argument. Or, just go on believing what YOU believe; it's fine with me!
Eloquent and moving summary of unbelief and free thinking.
He is the only man I relate to when you need to liberate your mind...so right...religion is the greatest fuck up in our lives...be gentle,generous and kind and you don't any lunatic from the so called Heavens telling you how to live your life...Hitch you are missed.
"Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!"
- George Carlin
Instead of praying for someone to convert, they should ask, why is god ignoring the prayers of innocent children being raped and murdered... Is that part of his divine plan!?. Pfft.
They justify that, cause the reward of an eternal life can justify any atrocity
That will be known as one of the greatest speeches of our time.
god, I miss him. Yes, that's deliberate irony.
Republicans who claim Hitchens is one of them have NO idea who the man was!
If anything, Hitch was a moderate.
He loathed the Clintons(Deserved or undeserved), supported W the Lesser and his Iraq war(A BIG MISTAKE) . He really didn't like Obama all that much either. He mocked women as being "unfunny". It's hard to put a political label on Mr. Hitchens and although Iove the man's intellect and stand against religion and for science so of his videos and opinions have not aged very well. We should keep a healthy perspective on all historical figures.
Steven S
Loathing the Clintons doesn't automatically make one a CONSERVATIVE idiot. You ever hear of NON-PARTISANS/INDIVIDUALISTS
"...after the 11 September attacks he no longer regarded himself as a socialist and his political thinking became largely dominated by the issue of defending civilization from terrorists and against the totalitarian regimes that protect them. Hitchens nonetheless continued to identify as a Marxist, endorsing the materialist conception of history, but believed that Karl Marx had underestimated the revolutionary nature"of capitalismwww.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/04/the-revenge-of-karl-marx/307317/
th-cam.com/video/jNaHu8UnEt0/w-d-xo.html
I thought Hitchens was British?
Hitch is the only one worth listening to. I don't bother with the other speakers on any of these videos. I fast forward to Hitch.
Simpler than that, the major problem with religions isn't in how they're interpreted, but in that they must be, and always are in relation to current sociopolitical trends which bear no particular relation to morality.
I don't know what nonseical is. But consciousness is beyond any understanding by mechanical material means, and so is mystical. If you explain consciousness as an object, you are merely denying it.
Those who feel they need the threat of eternal torment and torture to keep them moral need to be locked up for their own (and the worlds) good.
I'll put it simply.
Ignorance is dangerous. Religion is ignorance. Obedience to religion IS dangerous.
To refrain from immoral acts due to either fear of retribution or for promise of reward is not morality. Morals clearly do not come from any religious text or any moral standard, otherwise they and we would all be in agreement.
These clips from VCU are my favorite of Hitchens
This should be required educational material
Does the suicide bombing community have a Facebook page and a support group?
What I meant with mental issues is that some people with mental issues also think they have had supernatural experiences (like religious people think they have experienced god). So what diffrence is there between these 2 really? They both say pretty much the same and the only proof they can both offer is that the rest of us should just take their word for it.
Religions certainly don't have a monopoly on immorality, but they've certainly cornered the market on convincing people that deeds the majority of society agree is immoral is actually moral.
I was a teenager growing up in a tough neighbor. One evening toward dark there came what appeared to be a teen-age gang walking fast from behind and catching up. I took a nonchalant evasive action crossing the street and heading toward some strange front door as if I lived there. I was cautiously optimistic that the gang didn't follow. As they passed on the other side I realized they were carrying books. Books? Yes, Bibles. I guess coming out from a church meeting. If Hitchens was with me, he would surely have breathed a sigh of relief to see those Bibles. I recrossed the street and resumed my journey home. For that one brief moment, religion poisoned the atheism in my neighborhood.
I'm a theist, but not a believer, and not an adherent of any religious text. There is correlation between religious commandments and moral (or government) laws held by society (some of which I disagree with), but I would not argue that all morals held by society come from religion. It is a source, but not the only source. Hitchens argues that it's not true that non-believers can't do moral acts. So far as I know, none of his debating partners disagrees with him on that point.
I'm a non practising muslim and what he says makes sense and it makes me doubt my religion but still have that fear of hell at the back of my brain
Forget Hell, it is made up by the controlling human inventors of religion to get you scared so you obey them. It is complete nonsense. Break out of it, be free!
Hell is just an imaginary haunted house designed to get you to give 10% of your money to a mosque to fund murderers and other nasty people.
Hell was thought exactly for that purpose, to make people feel hesitant to leave their religion
But think about that, if god is all benevolent than he wouldn't torture you forever, if god exist and he will torture you forever for having left his cult of dementia and absolute wickedness than you will have just shown real integrity in the face of the most unjust totalitarian regime that ever existed
Beside god probably doesn't exist so dont bother, it was invented by humans to keep control in to others and it's shown in the brutality and in the lack of morality thay speaks through religion
I did too and it kept me holding on to Christianity for many years. It is NOT true. It is a man made idea to control you.
@comeonfolks Perfect example of what Dennett describes as a 'use error'. The concept of 'God' exists just as the concept of 'evil' exists. What you have done is equivalent to saying, "Prove to me, scientifically, that a 'verb' exists."
Hopefully you can see that no one will waste their time demonstrating scientifically the existence of a 'verb' - nor should they.
Today we have Jordan Peterson.
Science can be a means to obtain objective knowledge. The ideology comes in with those who believe science can provide answers but other ways of knowing cannot.
Religion as usually understood does not have testable theories, but mysticism has knowledge that is verifiable by your own experience.
"I'm a theist, but not a believer"
That's an oxymoron.
One of the things I liked about Hitchens is his simple use of English. He had the intelligence to regurgitate a dictionary whenever he spoke, but he chose not to, instead allowing himself to be understood in the frankest manner possible.
It was also prudent on his part.
True. In his tremendous essay 'Politics and the English Language' (easily found online), Orwell insists that unclear speech or writing is a reliable indicator that the author is unclear in their thinking or has something to hide. Hitchens demanded lucidity of himself at all times, and this is one of the many reasons to admire him.
I’m with you Christopher
7:05 "It is a wonderful thing that we now have enough information, enough intelligence, and I hope enough intellectual and moral courage to say that this ghastly proposition is founded on a lie and to celebrate that fact."🎉
Wow- i've seen ole Hitch a few times but this may be the best speech/response yet.
@Murdulo I did not invoke the name of faith. None of what you say is proof that consciousness is an object.
How can you say you can drive a car with your mind, when you deny the existence of the mind?
People invent God as a proxy for goodness. People want a way to promote "goodness" and eliminate "evil" in their societies. In the past, inventing an imaginary God has been perceived to be one way to facilitate that process.
The Intelligent God created man, Some men created gods, Some men want to be a god.
"But muh faith!"
After Mr. Hitchens passed away, who is similar to him from the same school of thoughts now?
Thanks
Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins are worth reading/hearing.
@@jasonnesmith6518 any book recommendations?
I also came across Michael Shermer and L. Krauss Thanks
Its simple another critical thinking non religious Brit 'Douglas Murray'
Mr. Dawkins and that Matt Delahanti guy are similar in the way they present a straw man argument if that’s what your looking for. I certainly wouldn’t recommend buying what they sell but they play the same game as Hitchens. Not quite as clever and witty but not too bad either.
I cant disagree with Mr. Hitchens.
I loved how the gentleman immediately in front of Christopher and a bit to the right(white polo shirt), didn't applaud after this amazing rendition of reason. Obviously in a delusional state of mind and not able to escape the grasp of theistic indoctrination that he possesses. How can anyone with any kind of a mind, not consider this man's words true, apparent and enlightening?
All one needs to do, is to read the entire bible to recognize that fact.
An immoral god and immoral clerics can never lead to moral results.
I like what Matt Dillahunty said about how if you can already tell that you're more moral than the God of the Bible, then you don't need christianity to be good. Even though he didn't say it exactly like that, it says a lot about the true morality of non-theists.
Words dripped from this man’s mouth like jewels.
I never saw an atheist wear a suicide vest 😉
Marxist groups have used suicide bombings. You would think Marxists would be atheists.
Watch it again.... that's not what he says.
Who is the second person he mentions ?
Yes; nowhere did I mention ghosts. Not that I deny them...
Once you acknowledge that you are conscious, you can create a proof for "God" based on that fact.
I agree with you about the universe being or not being "something from nothing". It is simplistic and committing a fallacy to suggest that what came before the Big Bang was "nothing". We define nothing based upon our understanding of reality now. It is suggested that such notions as "before" and "something" were defined rather than bounded by the Big Bang event, so it's a little like asking "Who invented five minutes ago?" or "Why is 12?" It's not logical to ask about pre-Big-Bang causation.
@JMSofSweden If he doesn't exist, don't complain about Him! Hitchens DID say it's poor design because we won't be able to see the big bang! Listen already. Why else did he mention the rate of expansion is increasing? That has nothing at all to do with Andromeda coming toward us. And so what about that? Galaxies are so huge and slow moving it may not matter to us if they collide. And with any luck, we'll be somewhere else by then anyway, one way or another.
You couldn't put it better than the impudent Hitch:
Claim: no morality without religious belief
Disproof: those committing the most immoral acts (in quantity and type) are inspired by religious or quasi-religious belief.
Therefore: If the claim of the religionists is true it is also false. Thus is it contradictory, and thus necessarily false.
Religion promotes immorality, precisely because a "divine" creed encourages believers to suspend moral evaluation of their acts.
x andrea
Even as a rational nonbeliever, I would be shit scared to be opposing this man in a debate.
Rationality in the hands of a Muslim can lead to enlightenment and great kindness. Irrationality in a Muslim war and suffering. Rationality in a Athiest, wisdom, logic, Irrationlaity in Atheism beliveing all who are not atheist are insane.
Would you consider the US government or any other government a personality cult?
How is loving your enemy's injustice? Justice is blind. Justice is not an expression of vengeance which is pure self gratification.
I can't believe that it's been but a little more than seven years -- seems like yesterday when the news broke that his life had been snuffed-out by cancer.
In regards to the first comment made, "Hitchins is fighting a war", Christopher Hitchens is through intellectual debate and hard work slowly and sometimes instantly penetrating the minds of people who have a lower understanding of religious chaos in this world. However, big religion is, Christopher Hitchins along with Richard Dawkins are needed constantly to tame audiences, persuade light religious believers otherwise and take away the fear of God.
@shadow1867 I'm so glad there are smart people in the world that really understand the issues at hand. Thank you, sir.
@lfzadra You seem to care a lot whether I or others believe in God or NOT. Hitchens sure does.But Ify, do you think there is a cause for anything?
What gets me is that not one single theist/deist, whom, after debating Mr Hitchens and hearing his, I must say, Infallible arguments, was brave enough to admit he was right and proceed to abandon religion. How stubborn are the brainwashed. The ultimate example of an oxymoron.
@real19821
i agree, but hitchens has stated many times and i can find it for you, that he has said that you can not stop ppl from having these feelings, the need for a creator, but as he said that you might be able to try and make it a home type of thing instead of ppl congregating in one place, overall i dont think we should inforce the issue if not were no better than they are
Indeed. Universe is actually expanding faster than the speed of light. I do not know if General Relativity equations can explain. Sound sonic boom....wonder what a light visual boom would be like.
Yes, general relativity can explain all of that. What it can't explain is why you are too intellectually lazy to look up the explanation. ;-)
beautifully said. sublime freethought. i love smart people.
He didn't mic drop after that last point but he damn well should have.
He doesnt have to
No - it's not founded on a "lie" it's founded on political power. If I said after abandoning religion we may abandon misleading laws, you may call me an Anarchist, but I'm a realist with good "faith" and no sense of superstition. I reject wishful thinking, used by leaders to gain power. Please watch "Oh God" and notice "that's ... what I am talking about."
No Murdulo, I was not saying you have to believe anything. I don't. I don't know who you are talking to, but I didn't mention any ghosts. You just need to look and see yourself. The reality is a priori, and you experience it, but more to the point, you are it.
That is a very eccentric definition of "love".
Down on The Strand, Her Majesty's Judges in the High Court and Court of Appeal do not sit at The Royal Courts of Love. Nor did the Judicature Acts of 1870-something amalgamate common law and equity to produce tribunals of "love".
This is one reason religion is so slippery. Its charismatic and revelatory elements invite a rewrite of common language - though lawyers also do that, but with a view to precision and precedent (ha, ha!)
x andrea
How did we shift to sources of political authority, when we were discussing motives for atrocities?
Do you say political allegiance can motivate people to great crimes? True.
Do I need to set out political personality cults that descended into the semi-divine? Hitler, Stalin, Kim Jong-Il, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Napoloean, Augustus Caesar.
You said "love your enemy". Maybe I misunderstood your meaning. To overlook criminal actions on the basis of affection is tempting but unjust.
x andrea
@thronsohn
i cant believe you got three thumbs down for your comment, i agree, i dont think you cant stop people from feeling the way they do about god, HITCHENS HAS SAID IT HIMSELF, we cant supress them. WE CANT ALSO INFORCE OUR thoughts on anybody, if not then we'd be like mormans & jehovahs witness, but i do think we can give religions less power over the ppl, meaning less expliotation
"some even lower"
Just great. I encourage everyone to watch the whole debate.
Dear T2112, OK, I said religious or quasi-religious. This is not a rubber-definition of "religious", so that all patently malevolent acts are labelled religious. Offer examples of atrocity with NEITHER personality cults NOR totalitarianism.
"Jesus morality" isn't coherent. I might put up with someones unfavourable opinions of me, who trashes my beliefs and reputation. or merely intends me ill. But love them, if they commit a crime against me, my loved ones, my friends? Noop, that's injustice.
@callofduty497 And to clarify I'm not an atheist. I'm an agnostic with Atheistic Leanings. Though I prefer to describe myself as a skeptical thinker and inquirer.
The Law of Inertia was not authored by a religious god- it exist's because the laws of gravity and acceleration exist, who in turn exist because other laws underly them and so forth. To share a more advanced perception of mine, I would go as far as to say that laws are SYMBIOTIC of each other; thier existences are dependent on one another. Example: earlier I stated that the Law of Inertia exist because of the laws of gravity and acceleration, but, the same is vice versa- Inertia's existence...