The Peterson effect matches exactly my experience. I was converted by episode 4 of his biblical lectures, having been an atheist activist until then. His language enabled me to think about the bible with a new vocabulary and appreciation of evolution, unlocking it all. Never looking back.
@@LS-et7pz I didn't say I agreed with everything he says. I just said that his vocabulary unlocked the bible for my lost soul in the perfect way. Also, calling people hypocrites is rather bold but I'm sure you are qualified to cast the first stone.
@@simoontube ohh, I see… evolution and selection are quite different things… Darwinian evolution never happened in real life and even less so in biblical context. The 6 days of Creation has no room (and no need) for evolution. Just saying.
I just read The Brothers Karamasov because of Jordan Peterson. I found God in this profound book. Jordan Peterson has brought me closer to God and my church.
What an inane and pithy comment. HOW is it possible to _falsify_ such a banal assertion? If one can't possibly falsify an assertion, then the assertion isn't worth considering to be true.
@@Theo_Skeptomai so suspending acknowledgment as to the existence of God allows for mockery of a statement of belief? Or is that in truth, denial of existence, leading to mockery?
My own personal journey is, I was definitely an atheist , then I started to read about the shroud of Turin and after many books on it and with a background of mechanical engineering I knew the Shroud could not be duplicated now or any other time period past or future. I have no faith but I know Jesus rose from the dead. I take solace in the words of Jesus when He said blessed are those who did not see but believe. But he also said seek and you shall find. I did not have faith but now I know. I can live with myself knowing I was a doubting Thomas but have no doubts now.😊
Faith is the bridge between hope and hopelessness. It is like a puzzle that is missing pieces but you can make complete through placing the best imaginable pieces in the empty spaces.
Thx Justin and John for making this interview possible. It was so uplifting. If I could ask John one request. It’s to give Jenny his wife a big hug from me. I can imagine she shed many tears while John was in the dark. Yet. They stayed together. And now are a family with Christ as Lord Thx guys
Actually his FIRST wife shed the tears. They were married for over 25 years they met in Bible college and graduated together, and then he walked away from Christianity. It broke her heart, but she never turned her back on him. She prayed for him every day and even though he didn't believe continue to encourage him to go to church with her, which ironically is where he met his new wife while his first wife was on her deathbed. So, if anyone shed tears, it was his first wife. Not to mention her one request on her deathbed was to make sure John promised to raise their daughter in the church. And prayed, God will take care of the rest. While he claims the first marriage was difficult, there was a wife that never gave up on her husband's eternal soul.
I recall that first night that I attended my favorite church...the one that had saved me. I had come to them sad and bitter about many things. They mentioned our silent prayer and how that was the time when the Lord could speak to us. I did as I was advised and bow my head but not before thinking to myself, "yeah...yeah.." (as if) I had already known that again I'd be let down. But then the craziest thing happened. I heard a man's voice speaking to me and saying the exact words...EXACT words that I needed to hear in order to win the battle against my own demons. I looked around, my heart racing and tears rolling down my face.. And after that night I did win. And a battle that for most, would have taken multiple attempts, was already won. In that instant. In that moment. As I stewed on all the other possible explanations to the event that whole next week, my only other conclusion was that maybe the pastor had a voice thrower. Of course it seemed silly and didn't hold up. I believe that being born again as an adult, those moments when of our own free will we choose to return to the church, may have given me the best armor that even the richest could never buy.
14:18 I understand this completely. Faith didn't remove my doubts, but it added to my psyche a place to live, as a methodological skeptic I could not settle.
John, I would say, was disappointed in his youth. Disappointed at the apparent indefensible position. But honestly, having been there at the age of 19 (one year old in the faith), I can also look back and see compromises. First I was disappointed in an authentic way. But second, I was enticed by my immediate surroundings that I was alone in having to fend off daily--the things I secretly wanted if there was no God. I felt deprived of answers first, then the justification to put everything on hold until I could get back (9,000 miles around the globe) to places where I could ask these questions in hopes of finding answers. Of course that never happened--at least for three months. I had put God on a shelf because I was tired of fighting (in apparent aloneness). In that, I began to rebuild the bridge toward self-satisfaction and what would have led back to the atheism/agnosticism I had always known prior to that conversion at 18. Three months lost. Questions mounted. No one with answers. Upon my return, I challenged my church family, the leaders--all with personal smugness and justification because none of them had answers. Finally, at the 11th hour on a trip home from a retreat, I was reluctantly corralled, to my surprise, by a completely untrained friend who had one thing to say to my unanswerable questions. In all things she had first learned to say, God, I don't know the answers, but I'm going to trust you to bring them. Such an Ahh-ha moment for me! In all that had happened, I had never done that in my doubts. Repenting silently right there on the bus, over the next week from three different sources, I received eight thoroughly satisfying answers from my list of 16. First and always trust before leaping to conclusions. God has never given answers without first surrendering unconditionally, leaving the buts at the door. After that moment passed, I was refreshed, restored like one out of the frostbitten cold. A story that I had shunned as significant, I would have 100% surely died with all of my friends in a fatal car accident had I not listened one more time to that voice in that three-month hiatus. In thawing and out and I could begin to see where things went wrong in many ways, and so returned to the last place that I was in a relationship with the author of life.
Jordan Peterson is very much a prophetic (ie TRUE) voice in our time. A great man because he is open to examine his shortcomings which is a sign of humility and therefore greatness
He's a right wing grifters of the worst sort. So, good luck if those are your "prophets". It's like the Bible predicted - "for the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears."
Yes, John's wife, Jenny, more than answers Ghandi's challenge to Christians to reflect our Redeemer in our lives. Let us each strive to lean on Jesus as we give ourselves to Him and show Christlikeness to those we meet, amen.
Had a very similar experience with Peterson's series on Genesis. Wish he kept doing that kind of exploration. Without the politics, without the scholarly attempt to unite the Abrahamic faiths. Just pure psychological biblical discussion. God willing
Jordan Peterson without politics would be like a church potluck with no finger sandwiches. Without religion and politics there would be nothing to argue about, we'd have no recourse but to kill each other out of sheer boredom.
@@halcyonzenith4411 Riightt. I just mean in that he was still just a professor giving lectures on things that he's interested in and not making hyper scripted/speeches trying to gain political favor. He's part of "the game" now. Just miss the professor.
but his psychological discussion is just made up conjectures. There is no truth to any of it. Its like someone is giving you their interpretations of the Dr. Seuss books for children. You could read deep things into it, but in reality there is no good reason to take it seriously
I became more open to Christianity after listening to a Joe Rogan interview with JP a long time ago. Since becoming a Christian I actually don’t find atheism to be a convincing position. “Lack of belief” as they call it is probably not even an honest description of most atheists’ situation. It’s definitely more complicated than that, but once a person comes into contact with the Spirit of the Living God it’s weird to look back to what life was before. It’s like a different dimension or something. Like Neo coming to understand what the matrix actually is or something. It’s not the ultimate reality. God is; Jesus Christ is. 👑 John 8: 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
Atheism is not a lack of _belief._ I _believe_ no gods to exist. It is the lack of _any credible evidence_ substantiating the claim that any god exists in reality that manifests in the position of atheism. Atheism is the position of suspending any acknowledgement as to the existence of a god until sufficient credible evidence is introduced. It is natural, rational, and prudent to be skeptical of unsubstantiated claims, especially extraordinary ones. Wouldn't you agree?
@@wma5440 What does any of that ignorant fodder have to do with my comment? Please explain. And don't fucking proselytize. I am FAR MORE FAMILIAR with scripture than you. STOP with your ignorance and address my comment _rationally._
@@Theo_Skeptomai The gospel of John was written to provide evidence that Jesus is the Savior of the world: John 20 verses 30-31 "Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."
Yo! We need an interview with Jenny! Because she sounds like a great godly woman and honestly as a woman myself we need these older women teaching the younger ones like me 🙏
I really enjoyed this discussion and John's sharp wit, we need men like him in our corner, with a quickness of mind and ability to be direct. Thanks Justin!
That’s beautiful. We each get well in Christ first, then we become vessels for each other with Christ as the main cargo of gold and Diamond within our vessel.
When I fall asleep sad, I imagine my head lying at Jesus feet. I never used to have a visual of his face but still felt a special comfort imagining myself at his feet.
Thanks jp Born in Christian family and i never considered my a Christian due to how people close to my treated me After was watching many videos of jp i Christian make sense And being a Christian is hardest sacrificial life to live You're commanded to love you enemies to love your enemies is very hard 💔
John's story here reminds me of Raskolnikov and Sonia in Crime and Punishment and his conversion in the Epilogue. Sonia represents the Holy Spirit. She is Christ to Raskolnikov. His story is so similar with Jenny. Dostoevsky is also vehement about Christianity or Christ as the foundation or underpinning of Western society and how right now those underpinnings are being deconstructed. This was one of Dostoevsky's major assertions in CandP, Notes from Underground, and other works. I concur that all of classical western literature points to Christ.
What a beautiful story. I definately was not able to truly feel God’s love for me until I got married. My husband reflected God to me. The amazing thing is we get to have the Giver and the gifts! I don’t think he answered if he prays to God now? I would would assume so.
Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Christian parents, don't give up, continue to pray for your children and teach them, and be faithful being a parent. Trust the children into the hands of God. God is faithful and will bring them back to Himself!
'God is literally the mystery out there...we Christians accept a single mystery and explain everything else by it, where as everyone else sort of tries to explain everything, and leaves the mystery alone, but then they have nothing to go back to as the final cause' - yes exactly, this is the key in my view, God is the embodiment of the mystery of being, NOT an explanation, because ultimately there is no explanation it just 'is what it is', but by having God as the embodiment you can connect to the mystery at the heart of being, because it's also the mystery at the heart of you, so you're not just 'a drop in the ocean of being, the ocean of being is in the drop' and that is what Christ symbolises.
Once upon time I thought ignoring the existence of life after death is the most unwise decision I have ever made. Then I start searching the truth, exist or does not exist? How could I know? Thank God I got the answer. Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
@@halcyonzenith4411 So quick. It took me many years, to find the truth, I studied all the prominent teachings, Christianity, islam, Budha, etc. I was serious to find the truth, about 10 yrs latter I gave up, I do not know which one true? Finally I asked God if he does not exist I will not get answer, then I can go on without fear about life after death. Now I live happily since I know that I will live forever happily.
Amen, I to experience GOD working in my life every day. Leading, correcting, providing, protecting and saving. People try JESUS ( give your life to Him. ) We are save by faith in JESUS. It's the best descision we will ever made in our entire life.
He describes his wife almost like a sacrament. It works if you have a saint for a wife. It’s a strong argument for Christ when a spouse can incarnate Him for you. No atheist can argue with a saint. Their beauty is heart breaking.
I think in 10 years or so John will have found a logical and rational underpinning to his faith. Some of us don't have it in the beginning but it comes over time...
Ultimately, he converted to Christianity for a woman and rationalized the conversion. He truly believes. Other people convert to other religions because they truly believe as well.
I felt Dr. Peterson did a magnificent job in development of the biblical themes from the perspective of a Psychologist. He is amazingly brilliant and a great teacher up to the limits of his expertise. His analytical commentary does however fall short in the fine nuances and depth of the Faith yet still worth the time to study. If you want theological depth, I recommend Bishop Robert Barron.
In the end, apologetics is a waste of 25 years, what we all really need is Jennies in our lives and having meet our jenny, talk less, argue less and learn to be a jenny to others.
As an atheist myself Christianity offers many Jenny's to be envious of. Not all Christians have that spiritual glow, but many do. I don't think Christianity through purely intellectual means is rational. However, we are not just intellectual beings, we are emotional beings. Wisdom looks at the whole package of intellect and emotions so Christianity is rational from a wisdom perspective. Even if God isn't real I believe religions and philosophies are necessary for most people to maintain emotional well being. The main problem for an atheist attempting to become a christian is finding a way to truly believe to get the full benefit vs. seeing it purely as man made but good rules to live by.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard the Christian atheist discuss his own sin, and the realization that, without the work of Jesus Christ, shedding his blood on the cross as an atonement for his sin doomed eternally. Again I could be wrong and perhaps I missed it but it seems like his focus is on Jenny and not anything about repentance.
My thoughts exactly. Seems like a big missing element, although I have never heard his podcast. Maybe it comes through there. I hope, unlike Jordan Peterson, he has a true Biblical faith. I'll pray for both of them.🙏
God works in mysterious ways. God said your ways are not my ways, your thoughts are not my thoughts. My ways and thoughts are higher than your ways and thoughts. Open your heart and humble yourself! Good luck
Both Kierkegaard and Kant (if memory serves) decided that a person has to make a leap at some point-- a leap beyond reason (and the things this tool can't explain) into faith. Peterson was used as a means to awaken this intellectual named John Wise, but Jordan too needs to make the leap of turning from his sin, believing in Christ and following him. In the end, Jesus will ask us all, "Did you know me?", not "Did you know about me?". He'll either happily usher you into eternal bliss, saying, "Enter in good and faithful servant," or sadly cast us into eternal darkness, saying, "Depart from me-- I never knew you."
I just gave this guy an hour of my life, because I am always on the lookout for new information. Here's my take on what he said. He was raised by an evangelical Christian. That generally seals a person's fate right there. He says he was an atheist for 25 years, after 4 years in bible college. I've already forgotten what caused that, so it can't have been too climactic. Something about how stuff didn't add up? My hunch is that believers converting to non-belief and then back to believing again were never non-believers to begin with. They have never really grasped what it means to not accept and maintain this particular set of religious and cultural beliefs. Anyway, he met a woman at a very vulnerable time of his life. He was powerfully drawn to her, but she stipulated Christianity as a condition for marriage. He had been a Christian previously, and he loved this woman, so it is not at all remarkable that he made this decision. It also does not shed any light on the questions regarding whether or not there is any reality to the Christian myth. As an aside, the support he gives for his decision is that he saw "the Christ" in this woman, who he did marry. So he meets a person in 21st century N America, and he sees similarities between this person's behaviors and the behaviors of a quasi-mythological person who may have lived 2 thousand years ago in the middle east. And voila, ergo ....? And then there's the other persuader in this guy's story - Jordan Peterson. I almost choked on my pancakes. Jordan Peterson, the Canadian college professor who seems to think he is qualified to profess on everything. Jordan Peterson, the arrogant, self-righteous know-it-all who has made his life mission to set us all straight - on everything. Ugh, a Canadian psychologist. I consider that a double epithet. So the guy nattered on for a full hour (yeah, I watched part 1, which ended with "We'll give you the beef in part 2), never once giving anything that amounted to a shred of evidence or objective support for his position. I'm still not even sure what his position is. He believed in Jesus, then in God, then neither, and now Jesus (or Christ) and maybe God, but maybe not. Well, thanks a lot for that, John Wise. You owe me an hour of wasted time.
I beg to differ, he did give reasons for his return/conversion to Christianity. No one forced you to keep listening to his journey of faith. He is not responsible, you are.
@@ag7075 Not sure what you are saying. I cited the reasons I remembered him giving. Was there a substantive reason I missed? I was being facetious about the hour of my life. That's an expression. It means I gave the guy my attention. And (gulp) what are you suggesting that I am responsible for?
When I listened to the first one, I thought he was going to give reasons why he became an atheist. He was just vague saying he was walking on campus and realized there was no god. I know it gets into really dangerous No True Scotsman territory here, but really, when I see these reconversion after indoctrination stories, I am always skeptical. He just gave no concreate reasons to support his prior atheism other than he just did not believe or see evidence for a deity. I suppose, he might have wanted to avoid those arguments for this audience. I am not sure. In any case, as we saw in the other video, he magically decided he was Christian because his now wife would have him no other way. That type of religious bigotry is saddening. I might have had a relationship with a Muslim friend 25 years ago had there not been such an injunction. I am glad my wife of 12 years has no such belief despite her Catholic faith. I do not think I could force myself to buy into a religion just because I loved a person. That being said, it makes me wonder, having had a Christian inculcation my whole first 19 years of life, if I would ever convert back if I got clunked on the head with an anvil. lol
Thanks for this stimulating conversation, which caused me to think again about considering the experiential « I choose to worship based on what I see » rather than the cerebral « I choose to believe ». It seems that many apologists focus too much on a cognitive approach which places humanity at the centre of existence / reality. In other words, the fundamental obstacle between the divine and us is not ‘to be willing to believe’ but not ‘to be willing to worship’.
Back in the 60s the twilight zone aired an episode called “it’s a good life”. Every Christian should watch this episode. This episode is how many people see religion. It is an old black and white episode but it will make you think.
It seems to me… that we all…having been born in a world who had been profoundly marked by Christianity….we don’t dive deep enough…. So many “values” are normal to us….but they aren’t! Most of the cultures, also here in Europe… had known “human sacrifice”….and such horrors…. We consider it as horrors….but they had been normal….! Christianity lived out as Jenny did… really shows what life really is meant to bee… true fulfilling beautiful… true life…. Truth in a way becomes “visible”… Because that’s how life is meant to be… beautiful tender caring loving joyful….etc. I had a difficult life, when I get discouraged…I read revelation 21… True godly life is a foretaste of it, is it not?
We are all prodigal sons and daughters. We are just so blessed to be having a Father who never ceased to love us regardless of who we are, that we can always run to His opened Arms the way we are, and accept Him of who he is.
I wonder if there is a father who loves me, why the h.. have I never felt it? Do you mean the same father who allows little children to die of hunger or get raped?
@@JD-ro7xe Satan allows to go hungry. Corrupt politicians are evil. Look at Christian countries, they have God, like Denmark or Europe, they have Jesus Christ and their people don';t go hungry. Look at Africa, they don't have God , they have voodoo, look at their policians, they are allowing their own people to die in hunger. Not God's fault.
So happy for you that you found truth,bible says, Luke 15:7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who REPENTS than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no REPENTANCE.
This is an interesting general philosophical discussion. I wish Dr. Wise would give us any, "Specifics," with respect to what changed him. I guess I am looking for more apologetic logic which I don't hear at all.
I am always puzzled why, when hosts mention Jordan Peterson , they think they have to apologize for doing it, or mention he is controversial, or make some snide aside. or or or... Is this done when Whoopi Goldberg is mentioned? Chuck Schumer? Bill Maher? Albert Einstein? I don't get it.
I went to the comments after minute 12 because of this very reason. The way he talks about her is crazy! What happens when Jennys out of the picture? If he loses Jenny, will he lose his faith? What happens when Jenny isn’t perfectly representing Christ’s image? You can’t base your faith on a fallible human being.
What John Wise was saying about his wife Jenny should have been true in all the lives of Christians, the true reality of Christ, in us, the hope of glory. That Christ' reality shines through us the earthen vassals. 2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. What truly attracted John was Christ Himself shinning and revealing through Jenny's life. Oh much each of us Christian need to truly have Christ's life flowing out through us!
The analogy between the life of faith and science made 26-27 min in suggests something other than the antagonism between faith and reason/knowledge professed in part 1 of this interview. The real antagonism is between faith and certainty - but then certainty is also antagonistic to (most) human knowledge. So faith and knowledge are aligned against certainty.
I personally believe we all have a hole in us that can only be filled with Jesus. Many try to fill that hole with all sorts of things but Jesus is the only one which fits in that hole perfectly. But God gave us all free will and He is not going to prove His existence, it's based on faith so we all have the choice to believe or not.
This gives testimony to the significance of our walk or lives being lived to give honor & glory to God…. living in obedience to God’s Word so others see Christ in us. Charles Spurgeon wrote about our lives being an adornment to the Gospel. Christ in us…. Let our lights so shine before people so they will see our sacrificial & devotedly obedient & faithful “good works”, so we will glorify our Father in Heaven.
Not sure I believe or want to consider this man as a puppet in a show put on by God. He has come to his Faith through a journey of his own choices and that is through free will.
@@Theo_Skeptomai you conjure as though you are in possession of something valuable. Your thoughts should bring you to the finality of your simple biological existence. Leave the dreams, imagination and forward motion to those who can see the existential value of looking upward and outside of just the material. You are so unaware of your own reasons or purpose you honestly believe you have something to give humanity more valuable than hope and purpose even until and beyond the ending.
May I ask where Mr Wise stands on his need to come in repentance (after a clear conviction that he is a sinner saved by grace) and faith that Jesus Christ's death on the cross was vicarious (Isaiah 53). Thank you.
PRAISE YHWH, thank you LORD for brother Wise, what a beautiful and clear way to explain how GOD works in our life. PRAISE HIM FOR EVER AND EVER, AMEN!!✝️🕎🙏❤️ WHEN WE UNDERSTAND THE LOGIC BEHIND GOD’s LAWS, COMMANDMENTS, STATUTES, HIS INSTRUCTION….THEN SND ONLY THEN WE ARE ANLE TO WALK IN THE NARROW PATH, THE ONE THAT LEADS TO LIFE …JESUS/YESHUA. ❤🙏😘✝️🕎
Hebrews 11:1 NKJV "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen." I'm not sure how much his definition lines up with the Bible's, but I think he's overplaying the 'doubt' aspect.
'a lot of atheists will say, how can you suddenly go from being a paid up atheist to suddenly buying the whole christian story hook line and sinker' - to me the answer to that is that you've always had a connection to that story, and then things build up to the point when 'the dam bursts' and 'all the lines connect'. To me the thing that Peterson achieved was to allow you to appreciate how Christianity works as an archetypal myth, and that opens you up to what it really means, and then essentially you realise you do believe in Christ, just not literally. That is still how it makes sense to me, Christ is the symbolic representation of 'that which conjoins heaven and earth', which reveals to you that you are the 'paradox of being' i.e. 'the temporal and the eternal', 'the universal and the particular', 'the one and many', and the sense of that is spiritual love, and that sense can change you into a person like Jenny, and and thus those people help you realise the truth of 'Christ with us', a person changed by spiritual love, and that love is not a argument, it's an experience and that's how you believe in it.
I appreciate his openness. However, this story really sounds like the epitome of motivated reasoning... he wanted so hard to be a Christian for the woman he wanted to marry, he became one, while rationalizing it to himself. He's happy, so that's good... but I don't find his story inspirational.
I never heard him say he was born again, tho. He just said he became a Christian. Maybe that is what he's meaning but I hope on his podcast he clarifies to non believers that you can't just decide to become a Christian.
I love to listen to Jordan Peterson, but I must be honest and say that Jordan does not believe Jesus was bodily raised from the dead. Apart from this fact there is no gospel unto salvation . This is Paul’s argument in I Corinthians chapter 15. It is for this reason Jordan Peterson can only be recommended with extreme caution that the Christ of Jordan Peterson is not the Christ we read about in the New Testament. In addition, we need to pray that Jordan will come to true faith in the Gospel. But I want to be clear and state Jordan is not the enemy as was men such as the late Christopher Hitchens and the current Richard Dawkins.
It took me years after becoming a “Christian” before the truth of the resurrection confronted me. I’m so grateful to the people who allowed me to keep my decision about what I really believed regarding the resurrection in a fog of mystery…. It allowed God to meet me with the truth of it only when I was ready to fully receive it. I don’t think Petersen’s book is fully written yet and I trust that he is seeking genuinely after truth, which means he will find it in the way that is right for him… there’s only one thing in life that I am sure of and that I trust completely and that’s Jesus. I think he is infinitely gracious and wise in the way he reveals himself to each one of us. I have no doubt he understands perfectly how it has to happen for JP :)
@@Theo_Skeptomai I said Jordan Peterson is not our enemy. When I used the term “enemy”I do not mean enemies in the denotive sense but connotatively. In other words, both Hitchens’ former life and Dawkins’ present life was and is very clear that they were enemies or are in direct opposition to the central Christian message as preached by the apostles. This of course is the Gospel aka Jesus died for our sins according to the scriptures, He was buried, but raised on the third day according to the scriptures.
@@samanthamccarthy325 It is impossible to become a Christian apart from faith in Christ’s bodily resurrection from the dead. Romans 10:9-“Because if you confess with the mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” But, you are correct that Jordan’s journey is not over. This is why we pray that he comes to genuine or true faith in the Gospel that is clearly articulated in the New Testament. In spite of this, concerning many issues in the contemporary society Jordan has an abundance of legitimate well reasoned arguments.
Curiously Jordan Peterson does not proclaim himself an actual believer in a supernatural God, which many Christian ' believers are hoping he will one day. .Rather he finds many Biblical stories interesting from the physiological/ social point of view. So strictly he is in himself an 'athiest'
@@samuelkarlsson2651 Fair point. May I suggest a Christisn needs to believe in an actual resurrection and 'son of God ' narrative. An athiest is simply someone sceptical of claims of supernatural Gods, in the same way sceptical of belief in unicorns and fairies.
You took JP's view superficially, which is understandable if you don't follow his speeches closely. Several occasions he explained his stance. My understanding is that his view of being a Christian is a person who lives life emulating God. It is a high standard to call oneself a Christian and he didn't want to label himself so lightly without people fully what being a Christian means.
@@DyzeDyze Thankyou for your comment. Either a personal supernatural God creator of universe' exists or does not. Jordan, as I understand him, believes God is a man made idealised myth. Whether it deserves to be endlessly praised is another matter.
@@iainrae6159 I think there is a difference on how to frame “God”. I don’t recall him saying God is myth or supernatural human being. He doesn’t use this framing.
@@DyzeDyze Thankyou for your comment. If you check the 'Cosmic Sceptic ' Alex O'conner on Jordan Peterson which shows Jordan stating that God is mythical.
Amazing Peterson who has never even said he’s a Christian, has converted so many to Christianity. Our Lord works in miraculous ways and He can use anyone to lead another to Him. Even a man who isn’t even yet a Christian. We shall see.
This seems quite incongruous to me. Whilst I can appreciate Jordan Peterson on certain issues, particularly those surrounding free speech, I have always found him to be underwhelming, to say the very least, when he starts to discuss religion. In fact, to be perfectly frank, I have often felt that he comes out with little more than verbal diarrhoea on the topic. Sam Harris literally wiped the floor with Peterson during their discussion, and Cosmic Sceptic recently issued a very apposite expose which I found pretty convincing.
Someone help me here.. I kind of understand how he went back to believing in God, but I’m not understanding at all why he went back to Christianity? One can believe in God and not be Christian. So I’m not sure how he got from believing in God again, to being Christian again.
There are not many Truths in life. And they're often difficult to recognise. One Truth he spoke of was that we are so limited as human beings that we cannot know what is True. It's down to feelings, choice and faith. Pretty much in that order. The question that came up but he never addressed was where do those feelings come from. And what is their True nature. So ultimately is atheism a weaker position than not, as he says it is?
I think he said we are ignorant of most things, a statement I would agree with. Human beings invent truth, or "Truth." How could we not know something that we invent? And I don't get whatever point you are making about feelings. Care to elaborate?
There's no mystery regarding Wise's conversion. Like Peterson, he suffered and found comfort in religion. Some people do that, and others who suffer do not.
Nobody is the BEST at convincing people of a position (even though certain people are in general more skilled than others at it). People’s minds are wired differently. Peterson makes the BEST arguments for some people, yet other people (even people who agree with him Peterson) won’t find him that special and they will consider someone else to be much better. I’m eclectic, I graze different things from different people, I have my favorites, but only in category specific things. I don’t have an overall best.
He says he used to be an atheist and used to tell Christians he probably knows Christianity better than they do and that they're wrong. Now he claims to be a Christian and is telling atheists he understands what it is to be atheist and they're wrong. To me, he just sounds like someone you shouldn't pay much attention to. He claims he idolized Jesus as the ideal person, all through his atheist period, which he defines as the period when he "stopped believing in God". Note this isn't the same as believing gods don't exist. He even says he was probably more deist, which is a subset of theism, because it requires belief in a god! I know many atheists. I am one. I've attended atheist conventions. I'm a member of atheist groups (online and in person). I don't know any other atheists who idolize Jesus. Many don't believe Jesus even existed as a person. Those that do, don't believe he performed any of the claimed miracles, but was just another Jewish preacher of the time. Some may think there is a lot of merit in the message Jesus is alleged to have delivered (like the sermon on the mount), but even those people will acknowledge there are many better examples of great moral messages. After watching both videos I can't tell you why he became a Christian again, because he gave no specifics. Justin did try to push him a few times, but he seems to have learned how to spew word salad from Jordan Peterson, because there were a lot of words that told us very little. If you're a believer, who just wanted another feel-good story, I'm sure this worked for you. For the rest of us, it came across as a wordy but hollow excuse to justify his infatuation with Jenny.
Is AronRa really an atheist when he ironically prays to Satan? Is Richard Dawkins really an atheist when he writes so many books attacking a Being he knows doesn't exist? In my opinion, atheism is Satanism, atheists know God that exists but chose to rebel against Him.
@@hwd7 You seem confused. Aron Ra does not pray to Satan. It's pretty easy to find Aron Ra explaining how the form of satanism he aligns with is atheistic, in that it uses Satan merely as a symbol, not as a being thought to exist. Similarly, any attacks on God by Dawkins are attacks on the character of God, as described in the Bible and by followers, as interpreted by him. He does not believe that character is real. It is exactly the same as someone may critique the character of Darth Vader in the Star Wars universe. You can attack the character without believing it is real. While your opinion on atheism and God is noted, I can confirm with 100% certainty that it is wrong. There is very little we can be that certain of in life, but our own beliefs are among them. As I know I do not believe in your God or any other proposed gods, but rather believe none of them exist and are all the creations of human minds, I know that this particular atheist is no more rebelling against God than against the aforementioned Darth Vader. Having said all that, I'm not sure how your questions or opinion relate to my original comment. I did not claim John was not an atheist previously. I simply pointed out his description of his atheist period is not typical of the many atheists I know. Therefore, his experiences in converting to Christianity should also not be assumed to be typical (or even relevant) to other atheists in general.
The Peterson effect matches exactly my experience. I was converted by episode 4 of his biblical lectures, having been an atheist activist until then. His language enabled me to think about the bible with a new vocabulary and appreciation of evolution, unlocking it all. Never looking back.
@@LS-et7pz I didn't say I agreed with everything he says. I just said that his vocabulary unlocked the bible for my lost soul in the perfect way. Also, calling people hypocrites is rather bold but I'm sure you are qualified to cast the first stone.
What evolution are you referring to, if I may ask?
@@jean-jacqueslavigne3109 Darwinian natural selection
@@simoontube ohh, I see… evolution and selection are quite different things… Darwinian evolution never happened in real life and even less so in biblical context. The 6 days of Creation has no room (and no need) for evolution. Just saying.
@@jean-jacqueslavigne3109 Wake up and observe God's beautiful creation. Read more.
I just read The Brothers Karamasov because of Jordan Peterson. I found God in this profound book. Jordan Peterson has brought me closer to God and my church.
I was a Christian already when I read that book, but still it took my faith on a new level
It’s the Spirit who brings us to see the Truth in Christ. Good interview.
What an inane and pithy comment. HOW is it possible to _falsify_ such a banal assertion? If one can't possibly falsify an assertion, then the assertion isn't worth considering to be true.
@@Theo_Skeptomai so suspending acknowledgment as to the existence of God allows for mockery of a statement of belief? Or is that in truth, denial of existence, leading to mockery?
@@Theo_Skeptomai "If one can't possibly falsify an assertion, then the assertion isn't worth considering to be true." Nonsense!
This is amazing! Really appreciate this interview!
Keep the faith! God bless you Dr. Wise. Thank You Jesus!
@@eyemnew2991 The original comment in this thread is a perfect example.
My own personal journey is, I was definitely an atheist , then I started to read about the shroud of Turin and after many books on it and with a background of mechanical engineering I knew the Shroud could not be duplicated now or any other time period past or future. I have no faith but I know Jesus rose from the dead. I take solace in the words of Jesus when He said blessed are those who did not see but believe. But he also said seek and you shall find. I did not have faith but now I know. I can live with myself knowing I was a doubting Thomas but have no doubts now.😊
I'm an ex-atheist, too. Now Catholic.
God Bless.
Faith is the bridge between hope and hopelessness. It is like a puzzle that is missing pieces but you can make complete through placing the best imaginable pieces in the empty spaces.
Thx Justin and John for making this interview possible. It was so uplifting. If I could ask John one request. It’s to give Jenny his wife a big hug from me.
I can imagine she shed many tears while John was in the dark. Yet. They stayed together. And now are a family with Christ as Lord
Thx guys
Actually his FIRST wife shed the tears. They were married for over 25 years they met in Bible college and graduated together, and then he walked away from Christianity. It broke her heart, but she never turned her back on him. She prayed for him every day and even though he didn't believe continue to encourage him to go to church with her, which ironically is where he met his new wife while his first wife was on her deathbed. So, if anyone shed tears, it was his first wife. Not to mention her one request on her deathbed was to make sure John promised to raise their daughter in the church. And prayed, God will take care of the rest. While he claims the first marriage was difficult, there was a wife that never gave up on her husband's eternal soul.
I recall that first night that I attended my favorite church...the one that had saved me. I had come to them sad and bitter about many things. They mentioned our silent prayer and how that was the time when the Lord could speak to us. I did as I was advised and bow my head but not before thinking to myself, "yeah...yeah.." (as if) I had already known that again I'd be let down. But then the craziest thing happened. I heard a man's voice speaking to me and saying the exact words...EXACT words that I needed to hear in order to win the battle against my own demons. I looked around, my heart racing and tears rolling down my face.. And after that night I did win. And a battle that for most, would have taken multiple attempts, was already won. In that instant. In that moment. As I stewed on all the other possible explanations to the event that whole next week, my only other conclusion was that maybe the pastor had a voice thrower. Of course it seemed silly and didn't hold up. I believe that being born again as an adult, those moments when of our own free will we choose to return to the church, may have given me the best armor that even the richest could never buy.
14:18 I understand this completely. Faith didn't remove my doubts, but it added to my psyche a place to live, as a methodological skeptic I could not settle.
John, I would say, was disappointed in his youth. Disappointed at the apparent indefensible position. But honestly, having been there at the age of 19 (one year old in the faith), I can also look back and see compromises. First I was disappointed in an authentic way. But second, I was enticed by my immediate surroundings that I was alone in having to fend off daily--the things I secretly wanted if there was no God. I felt deprived of answers first, then the justification to put everything on hold until I could get back (9,000 miles around the globe) to places where I could ask these questions in hopes of finding answers. Of course that never happened--at least for three months. I had put God on a shelf because I was tired of fighting (in apparent aloneness). In that, I began to rebuild the bridge toward self-satisfaction and what would have led back to the atheism/agnosticism I had always known prior to that conversion at 18. Three months lost. Questions mounted. No one with answers. Upon my return, I challenged my church family, the leaders--all with personal smugness and justification because none of them had answers. Finally, at the 11th hour on a trip home from a retreat, I was reluctantly corralled, to my surprise, by a completely untrained friend who had one thing to say to my unanswerable questions. In all things she had first learned to say, God, I don't know the answers, but I'm going to trust you to bring them. Such an Ahh-ha moment for me! In all that had happened, I had never done that in my doubts. Repenting silently right there on the bus, over the next week from three different sources, I received eight thoroughly satisfying answers from my list of 16. First and always trust before leaping to conclusions. God has never given answers without first surrendering unconditionally, leaving the buts at the door. After that moment passed, I was refreshed, restored like one out of the frostbitten cold. A story that I had shunned as significant, I would have 100% surely died with all of my friends in a fatal car accident had I not listened one more time to that voice in that three-month hiatus. In thawing and out and I could begin to see where things went wrong in many ways, and so returned to the last place that I was in a relationship with the author of life.
Beautifully put!! Thankyou ⭐
Jordan Peterson is very much a prophetic (ie TRUE) voice in our time. A great man because he is open to examine his shortcomings which is a sign of humility and therefore greatness
He's a right wing grifters of the worst sort. So, good luck if those are your "prophets". It's like the Bible predicted - "for the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears."
The only good thing about Peterson is his eluquoant way of talking nonsense.
Yes, John's wife, Jenny, more than answers Ghandi's challenge to Christians to reflect our Redeemer in our lives. Let us each strive to lean on Jesus as we give ourselves to Him and show Christlikeness to those we meet, amen.
Had a very similar experience with Peterson's series on Genesis. Wish he kept doing that kind of exploration. Without the politics, without the scholarly attempt to unite the Abrahamic faiths. Just pure psychological biblical discussion. God willing
Jordan Peterson without politics would be like a church potluck with no finger sandwiches. Without religion and politics there would be nothing to argue about, we'd have no recourse but to kill each other out of sheer boredom.
@@halcyonzenith4411 Riightt. I just mean in that he was still just a professor giving lectures on things that he's interested in and not making hyper scripted/speeches trying to gain political favor. He's part of "the game" now. Just miss the professor.
but his psychological discussion is just made up conjectures. There is no truth to any of it. Its like someone is giving you their interpretations of the Dr. Seuss books for children. You could read deep things into it, but in reality there is no good reason to take it seriously
I became more open to Christianity after listening to a Joe Rogan interview with JP a long time ago. Since becoming a Christian I actually don’t find atheism to be a convincing position. “Lack of belief” as they call it is probably not even an honest description of most atheists’ situation. It’s definitely more complicated than that, but once a person comes into contact with the Spirit of the Living God it’s weird to look back to what life was before. It’s like a different dimension or something. Like Neo coming to understand what the matrix actually is or something. It’s not the ultimate reality. God is; Jesus Christ is. 👑
John 8: 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
Atheism is not a lack of _belief._ I _believe_ no gods to exist. It is the lack of _any credible evidence_ substantiating the claim that any god exists in reality that manifests in the position of atheism.
Atheism is the position of suspending any acknowledgement as to the existence of a god until sufficient credible evidence is introduced. It is natural, rational, and prudent to be skeptical of unsubstantiated claims, especially extraordinary ones. Wouldn't you agree?
@@wma5440 What does any of that ignorant fodder have to do with my comment? Please explain. And don't fucking proselytize. I am FAR MORE FAMILIAR with scripture than you. STOP with your ignorance and address my comment _rationally._
@@Theo_Skeptomai The gospel of John was written to provide evidence that Jesus is the Savior of the world: John 20 verses 30-31 "Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."
@@ag7075 Ancient writings do not comprise evidence.
Yo! We need an interview with Jenny! Because she sounds like a great godly woman and honestly as a woman myself we need these older women teaching the younger ones like me 🙏
Thank God for Jordan Peterson! I love that man!
The WISDOM! Yes! Fitting that Love provided the Key!
Beautiful testimony.
I really enjoyed this discussion and John's sharp wit, we need men like him in our corner, with a quickness of mind and ability to be direct. Thanks Justin!
That’s beautiful. We each get well in Christ first, then we become vessels for each other with Christ as the main cargo of gold and Diamond within our vessel.
Really good interview. Thank you and God bless you all. 🙏😍
Thank you for your ministry 🙏💖🙏💖🙏
Wonderful man. Great testimony.
When I fall asleep sad, I imagine my head lying at Jesus feet. I never used to have a visual of his face but still felt a special comfort imagining myself at his feet.
I subscribe because of his testimony 😊
Thanks jp
Born in Christian family and i never considered my a Christian due to how people close to my treated me
After was watching many videos of jp i Christian make sense
And being a Christian is hardest sacrificial life to live
You're commanded to love you enemies to love your enemies is very hard 💔
Ask God to fill you with his love. Ask for anything you need. He answers.
The Pilgrim's Regress redone by John Wise. Good to listen to.
Jordan Peterson is more persuasive and compelling than any preacher, pastor, or evangelist that I’ve ever heard.
That's a low bar. But keep following Kermit.
Even though he doesn’t profess Christ?
@@adamcosper3308 In a way yes he does have a Kermit look ...wonder what yours is .
@@adamcosper3308 Ad hominem much? Your intellectual prowess is staggering!
@@justin10292000 You should learn what the ad hominem fallacy actually entails. Talking shit about a bigot doesn't count by itself.
Yes, JP's work definitely has the prophetic Spirit!
John's story here reminds me of Raskolnikov and Sonia in Crime and Punishment and his conversion in the Epilogue. Sonia represents the Holy Spirit. She is Christ to Raskolnikov. His story is so similar with Jenny. Dostoevsky is also vehement about Christianity or Christ as the foundation or underpinning of Western society and how right now those underpinnings are being deconstructed. This was one of Dostoevsky's major assertions in CandP, Notes from Underground, and other works. I concur that all of classical western literature points to Christ.
What a beautiful story. I definately was not able to truly feel God’s love for me until I got married. My husband reflected God to me. The amazing thing is we get to have the Giver and the gifts!
I don’t think he answered if he prays to God now? I would would assume so.
I'm going to assume he prays to Christ to ask father in heaven for anything good amen.
Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Christian parents, don't give up, continue to pray for your children and teach them, and be faithful being a parent. Trust the children into the hands of God. God is faithful and will bring them back to Himself!
That was me 😊 God is so faithful ❤
@@brookelee16 Definitely not me. The buybull is total bull makes no sense.
'God is literally the mystery out there...we Christians accept a single mystery and explain everything else by it, where as everyone else sort of tries to explain everything, and leaves the mystery alone, but then they have nothing to go back to as the final cause' - yes exactly, this is the key in my view, God is the embodiment of the mystery of being, NOT an explanation, because ultimately there is no explanation it just 'is what it is', but by having God as the embodiment you can connect to the mystery at the heart of being, because it's also the mystery at the heart of you, so you're not just 'a drop in the ocean of being, the ocean of being is in the drop' and that is what Christ symbolises.
Thank you. Great testimony
Once upon time I thought ignoring the existence of life after death is the most unwise decision I have ever made. Then I start searching the truth, exist or does not exist? How could I know? Thank God I got the answer.
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
Same thing happened to me. I asked God for an answer, the next morning my alphabet cereal spelled "go to hell"
@@halcyonzenith4411 So quick. It took me many years, to find the truth, I studied all the prominent teachings, Christianity, islam, Budha, etc. I was serious to find the truth, about 10 yrs latter I gave up, I do not know which one true? Finally I asked God if he does not exist I will not get answer, then I can go on without fear about life after death. Now I live happily since I know that I will live forever happily.
"Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted , in spite of changing moods." - C.S. Lewis
Please interview his wife
I'd be much more interested in the deceased ex-wife's perspective. These interviews are what is known in theology as a "total shit show".
@@philoshua I'd be interested in that too.
@@philoshua 😂😂 Very technically accurate!
Amen, I to experience GOD working in my life every day. Leading, correcting, providing, protecting and saving. People try JESUS ( give your life to Him. ) We are save by faith in JESUS. It's the best descision we will ever made in our entire life.
So moving!!
I pray Jordan Peterson will also be led to faith in Jesus Christ. Who faced justice on our behalf and offered mercy love, and forgiveness in return.
He describes his wife almost like a sacrament. It works if you have a saint for a wife. It’s a strong argument for Christ when a spouse can incarnate Him for you. No atheist can argue with a saint. Their beauty is heart breaking.
So Many people re discover Jesus right now❤
I think in 10 years or so John will have found a logical and rational underpinning to his faith. Some of us don't have it in the beginning but it comes over time...
So powerful.
Can anyone please provide a source for the interesting quote he gave by Jean Paul Satre, about God haunting our consciousness? Thanks.
Wow, beautiful testimony!❤
It feels like he is still very early in his faith journey.
So it's a competition of sort
Well that's fine isn't it?
Ultimately, he converted to Christianity for a woman and rationalized the conversion. He truly believes. Other people convert to other religions because they truly believe as well.
I'm always skeptical when a romantic interest is front and center of one's "conversion."
Love this 🕊
I felt Dr. Peterson did a magnificent job in development of the biblical themes from the perspective of a Psychologist. He is amazingly brilliant and a great teacher up to the limits of his expertise. His analytical commentary does however fall short in the fine nuances and depth of the Faith yet still worth the time to study. If you want theological depth, I recommend Bishop Robert Barron.
Indeed JP is not a theologian but psychologist his biblical interpretation is from psychology
In the end, apologetics is a waste of 25 years, what we all really need is Jennies in our lives and having meet our jenny, talk less, argue less and learn to be a jenny to others.
Amen! When i was an angry 21-22yr old my "jenny" appeared - a 71yr old saint of a woman who loved me enough to lead me to Jesus
As an atheist myself Christianity offers many Jenny's to be envious of. Not all Christians have that spiritual glow, but many do. I don't think Christianity through purely intellectual means is rational. However, we are not just intellectual beings, we are emotional beings. Wisdom looks at the whole package of intellect and emotions so Christianity is rational from a wisdom perspective. Even if God isn't real I believe religions and philosophies are necessary for most people to maintain emotional well being. The main problem for an atheist attempting to become a christian is finding a way to truly believe to get the full benefit vs. seeing it purely as man made but good rules to live by.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard the Christian atheist discuss his own sin, and the realization that, without the work of Jesus Christ, shedding his blood on the cross as an atonement for his sin doomed eternally. Again I could be wrong and perhaps I missed it but it seems like his focus is on Jenny and not anything about repentance.
My thoughts exactly. Seems like a big missing element, although I have never heard his podcast. Maybe it comes through there. I hope, unlike Jordan Peterson, he has a true Biblical faith. I'll pray for both of them.🙏
Not every walk begins the same way.
God has his ways of working to the heart and squeezing out the ungodly things
Exactly: LED US TO FAITH.
Listen....I get that the Lord can use anything to bring others to Christ...but I'm struggling with this one.
Come on, he's just saying that his rebound relationship was *checks notes* like the incarnation. No red flags here!
God works in mysterious ways.
God said your ways are not my ways, your thoughts are not my thoughts.
My ways and thoughts are higher than your ways and thoughts.
Open your heart and humble yourself!
Good luck
@@philoshuastop 😂😂😂I’m a believer and I’m laughing at this honest take … it’s his life….
Sincere question: what experiences, values, wisdom, or life outcomes are exclusive to only theism and how can we demonstrate that?
Both Kierkegaard and Kant (if memory serves) decided that a person has to make a leap at some point-- a leap beyond reason (and the things this tool can't explain) into faith. Peterson was used as a means to awaken this intellectual named John Wise, but Jordan too needs to make the leap of turning from his sin, believing in Christ and following him. In the end, Jesus will ask us all, "Did you know me?", not "Did you know about me?". He'll either happily usher you into eternal bliss, saying, "Enter in good and faithful servant," or sadly cast us into eternal darkness, saying, "Depart from me-- I never knew you."
Who are you that claims to know the relationship between these individuals and their Faith.
Jesus would not condemn a man to perpetual torment.
Some good conversation here, some food for thought. However, let us remember to be careful about idolatry, folks. 🙏
I am going through this exact same thing, and Jordan Peterson was also instrumental in my changing world view
Jordan Peterson is clueless when it comes to religion
Please link to part 1 in the description below this video, and put link to part 2 in the description for the first.
I just gave this guy an hour of my life, because I am always on the lookout for new information. Here's my take on what he said. He was raised by an evangelical Christian. That generally seals a person's fate right there. He says he was an atheist for 25 years, after 4 years in bible college. I've already forgotten what caused that, so it can't have been too climactic. Something about how stuff didn't add up? My hunch is that believers converting to non-belief and then back to believing again were never non-believers to begin with. They have never really grasped what it means to not accept and maintain this particular set of religious and cultural beliefs. Anyway, he met a woman at a very vulnerable time of his life. He was powerfully drawn to her, but she stipulated Christianity as a condition for marriage. He had been a Christian previously, and he loved this woman, so it is not at all remarkable that he made this decision. It also does not shed any light on the questions regarding whether or not there is any reality to the Christian myth. As an aside, the support he gives for his decision is that he saw "the Christ" in this woman, who he did marry. So he meets a person in 21st century N America, and he sees similarities between this person's behaviors and the behaviors of a quasi-mythological person who may have lived 2 thousand years ago in the middle east. And voila, ergo ....? And then there's the other persuader in this guy's story - Jordan Peterson. I almost choked on my pancakes. Jordan Peterson, the Canadian college professor who seems to think he is qualified to profess on everything. Jordan Peterson, the arrogant, self-righteous know-it-all who has made his life mission to set us all straight - on everything. Ugh, a Canadian psychologist. I consider that a double epithet. So the guy nattered on for a full hour (yeah, I watched part 1, which ended with "We'll give you the beef in part 2), never once giving anything that amounted to a shred of evidence or objective support for his position. I'm still not even sure what his position is. He believed in Jesus, then in God, then neither, and now Jesus (or Christ) and maybe God, but maybe not. Well, thanks a lot for that, John Wise. You owe me an hour of wasted time.
I beg to differ, he did give reasons for his return/conversion to Christianity. No one forced you to keep listening to his journey of faith. He is not responsible, you are.
@@ag7075 Not sure what you are saying. I cited the reasons I remembered him giving. Was there a substantive reason I missed? I was being facetious about the hour of my life. That's an expression. It means I gave the guy my attention. And (gulp) what are you suggesting that I am responsible for?
When I listened to the first one, I thought he was going to give reasons why he became an atheist. He was just vague saying he was walking on campus and realized there was no god. I know it gets into really dangerous No True Scotsman territory here, but really, when I see these reconversion after indoctrination stories, I am always skeptical. He just gave no concreate reasons to support his prior atheism other than he just did not believe or see evidence for a deity. I suppose, he might have wanted to avoid those arguments for this audience. I am not sure. In any case, as we saw in the other video, he magically decided he was Christian because his now wife would have him no other way. That type of religious bigotry is saddening. I might have had a relationship with a Muslim friend 25 years ago had there not been such an injunction. I am glad my wife of 12 years has no such belief despite her Catholic faith. I do not think I could force myself to buy into a religion just because I loved a person. That being said, it makes me wonder, having had a Christian inculcation my whole first 19 years of life, if I would ever convert back if I got clunked on the head with an anvil. lol
Thanks for this stimulating conversation, which caused me to think again about considering the experiential « I choose to worship based on what I see » rather than the cerebral « I choose to believe ». It seems that many apologists focus too much on a cognitive approach which places humanity at the centre of existence / reality. In other words, the fundamental obstacle between the divine and us is not ‘to be willing to believe’ but not ‘to be willing to worship’.
Back in the 60s the twilight zone aired an episode called “it’s a good life”. Every Christian should watch this episode. This episode is how many people see religion. It is an old black and white episode but it will make you think.
Good for you..........
Thank you
It seems to me… that we all…having been born in a world who had been profoundly marked by Christianity….we don’t dive deep enough….
So many “values” are normal to us….but they aren’t!
Most of the cultures, also here in Europe… had known “human sacrifice”….and such horrors….
We consider it as horrors….but they had been normal….!
Christianity lived out as Jenny did… really shows what life really is meant to bee… true fulfilling beautiful… true life….
Truth in a way becomes “visible”…
Because that’s how life is meant to be… beautiful tender caring loving joyful….etc.
I had a difficult life, when I get discouraged…I read revelation 21… True godly life is a foretaste of it, is it not?
We are all prodigal sons and daughters. We are just so blessed to be having a Father who never ceased to love us regardless of who we are, that we can always run to His opened Arms the way we are, and accept Him of who he is.
I wonder if there is a father who loves me, why the h.. have I never felt it? Do you mean the same father who allows little children to die of hunger or get raped?
@@JD-ro7xe Satan allows to go hungry. Corrupt politicians are evil. Look at Christian countries, they have God, like Denmark or Europe, they have Jesus Christ and their people don';t go hungry. Look at Africa, they don't have God , they have voodoo, look at their policians, they are allowing their own people to die in hunger. Not God's fault.
@@Panic-buying-toilet-paper Wow. Your ignorance is truly unfathomable.
Amen
So happy for you that you found truth,bible says, Luke 15:7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who REPENTS than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no REPENTANCE.
This is an interesting general philosophical discussion. I wish Dr. Wise would give us any, "Specifics," with respect to what changed him. I guess I am looking for more apologetic logic which I don't hear at all.
I'm sure Matt Dillahunty would love to discuss this Christian atheist thing with him.
I am always puzzled why, when hosts mention Jordan Peterson , they think they have to apologize for doing it, or mention he is controversial, or make some snide aside. or or or...
Is this done when Whoopi Goldberg is mentioned? Chuck Schumer? Bill Maher? Albert Einstein?
I don't get it.
This does not seem like a conversion story. His wife seems to be his idol. Well that’s how it comes accross
Hmmmm…
I went to the comments after minute 12 because of this very reason. The way he talks about her is crazy! What happens when Jennys out of the picture? If he loses Jenny, will he lose his faith? What happens when Jenny isn’t perfectly representing Christ’s image? You can’t base your faith on a fallible human being.
What John Wise was saying about his wife Jenny should have been true in all the lives of Christians, the true reality of Christ, in us, the hope of glory. That Christ' reality shines through us the earthen vassals. 2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. What truly attracted John was Christ Himself shinning and revealing through Jenny's life. Oh much each of us Christian need to truly have Christ's life flowing out through us!
The analogy between the life of faith and science made 26-27 min in suggests something other than the antagonism between faith and reason/knowledge professed in part 1 of this interview. The real antagonism is between faith and certainty - but then certainty is also antagonistic to (most) human knowledge. So faith and knowledge are aligned against certainty.
The hound of Heaven on your heels , John .
I personally believe we all have a hole in us that can only be filled with Jesus. Many try to fill that hole with all sorts of things but Jesus is the only one which fits in that hole perfectly. But God gave us all free will and He is not going to prove His existence, it's based on faith so we all have the choice to believe or not.
This gives testimony to the significance of our walk or lives being lived to give honor & glory to God…. living in obedience to God’s Word so others see Christ in us. Charles Spurgeon wrote about our lives being an adornment to the Gospel. Christ in us…. Let our lights so shine before people so they will see our sacrificial & devotedly obedient & faithful “good works”, so we will glorify our Father in Heaven.
God will use who he will use 🙌
Aaah! What a beautiful tautology!
Not sure I believe or want to consider this man as a puppet in a show put on by God.
He has come to his Faith through a journey of his own choices and that is through free will.
@@RKPT9 Are you asserting one can actually _choose_ that which he or she believes?
@@Theo_Skeptomai you conjure as though you are in possession of something valuable. Your thoughts should bring you to the finality of your simple biological existence. Leave the dreams, imagination and forward motion to those who can see the existential value of looking upward and outside of just the material.
You are so unaware of your own reasons or purpose you honestly believe you have something to give humanity more valuable than hope and purpose even until and beyond the ending.
@@RKPT9 Was that a "yes" or a "no"?
Praise the Lord, he help to open your eyes
May I ask where Mr Wise stands on his need to come in repentance (after a clear conviction that he is a sinner saved by grace) and faith that Jesus Christ's death on the cross was vicarious (Isaiah 53). Thank you.
PRAISE YHWH, thank you LORD for brother Wise, what a beautiful and clear way to explain how GOD works in our life. PRAISE HIM FOR EVER AND EVER, AMEN!!✝️🕎🙏❤️ WHEN WE UNDERSTAND THE LOGIC BEHIND GOD’s LAWS, COMMANDMENTS, STATUTES, HIS INSTRUCTION….THEN SND ONLY THEN WE ARE ANLE TO WALK IN THE NARROW PATH, THE ONE THAT LEADS TO LIFE …JESUS/YESHUA. ❤🙏😘✝️🕎
Hebrews 11:1
NKJV
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen."
I'm not sure how much his definition lines up with the Bible's, but I think he's overplaying the 'doubt' aspect.
'a lot of atheists will say, how can you suddenly go from being a paid up atheist to suddenly buying the whole christian story hook line and sinker' - to me the answer to that is that you've always had a connection to that story, and then things build up to the point when 'the dam bursts' and 'all the lines connect'. To me the thing that Peterson achieved was to allow you to appreciate how Christianity works as an archetypal myth, and that opens you up to what it really means, and then essentially you realise you do believe in Christ, just not literally. That is still how it makes sense to me, Christ is the symbolic representation of 'that which conjoins heaven and earth', which reveals to you that you are the 'paradox of being' i.e. 'the temporal and the eternal', 'the universal and the particular', 'the one and many', and the sense of that is spiritual love, and that sense can change you into a person like Jenny, and and thus those people help you realise the truth of 'Christ with us', a person changed by spiritual love, and that love is not a argument, it's an experience and that's how you believe in it.
I appreciate his openness. However, this story really sounds like the epitome of motivated reasoning... he wanted so hard to be a Christian for the woman he wanted to marry, he became one, while rationalizing it to himself. He's happy, so that's good... but I don't find his story inspirational.
I never heard him say he was born again, tho. He just said he became a Christian. Maybe that is what he's meaning but I hope on his podcast he clarifies to non believers that you can't just decide to become a Christian.
I love to listen to Jordan Peterson, but I must be honest and say that Jordan does not believe Jesus was bodily raised from the dead. Apart from this fact there is no gospel unto salvation . This is Paul’s argument in I Corinthians chapter 15. It is for this reason Jordan Peterson can only be recommended with extreme caution that the Christ of Jordan Peterson is not the Christ we read about in the New Testament. In addition, we need to pray that Jordan will come to true faith in the Gospel. But I want to be clear and state Jordan is not the enemy as was men such as the late Christopher Hitchens and the current Richard Dawkins.
So those that hold rational positions other than yours, you consider to be an _enemy._ Am I to understand you correctly?
It took me years after becoming a “Christian” before the truth of the resurrection confronted me. I’m so grateful to the people who allowed me to keep my decision about what I really believed regarding the resurrection in a fog of mystery…. It allowed God to meet me with the truth of it only when I was ready to fully receive it. I don’t think Petersen’s book is fully written yet and I trust that he is seeking genuinely after truth, which means he will find it in the way that is right for him… there’s only one thing in life that I am sure of and that I trust completely and that’s Jesus. I think he is infinitely gracious and wise in the way he reveals himself to each one of us. I have no doubt he understands perfectly how it has to happen for JP :)
@@Theo_Skeptomai I said Jordan Peterson is not our enemy. When I used the term “enemy”I do not mean enemies in the denotive sense but connotatively. In other words, both Hitchens’ former life and Dawkins’ present life was and is very clear that they were enemies or are in direct opposition to the central Christian message as preached by the apostles. This of course is the Gospel aka Jesus died for our sins according to the scriptures, He was buried, but raised on the third day according to the scriptures.
@@samanthamccarthy325 It is impossible to become a Christian apart from faith in Christ’s bodily resurrection from the dead. Romans 10:9-“Because if you confess with the mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”
But, you are correct that Jordan’s journey is not over. This is why we pray that he comes to genuine or true faith in the Gospel that is clearly articulated in the New Testament. In spite of this, concerning many issues in the contemporary society Jordan has an abundance of legitimate well reasoned arguments.
@@bigdave1579 Those that are in direct opposition to your point of view are OPPONENTS, not ENEMIES.
It’s called the empty cross. I was baptized in the fountain at the base of it.
The historical records are mind-boggling. Not just in the Bible; but, so many other non-Biblical documents that back it all up.
I love to hear, "...idolizd Jesus as a perfect man..."
Experienced the same phenomenon
Curiously Jordan Peterson does not proclaim himself an actual believer in a supernatural God, which many Christian ' believers are hoping he will one day. .Rather he finds many Biblical stories interesting from the physiological/ social point of view.
So strictly he is in himself an 'athiest'
@@samuelkarlsson2651
Fair point.
May I suggest a Christisn needs to believe in an actual resurrection and 'son of God ' narrative.
An athiest is simply someone sceptical of claims of supernatural Gods, in the same way sceptical of belief in unicorns and fairies.
You took JP's view superficially, which is understandable if you don't follow his speeches closely. Several occasions he explained his stance. My understanding is that his view of being a Christian is a person who lives life emulating God. It is a high standard to call oneself a Christian and he didn't want to label himself so lightly without people fully what being a Christian means.
@@DyzeDyze
Thankyou for your comment.
Either a personal supernatural God creator of universe' exists or does not.
Jordan, as I understand him, believes God is a man made idealised myth.
Whether it deserves to be endlessly praised is another matter.
@@iainrae6159 I think there is a difference on how to frame “God”. I don’t recall him saying God is myth or supernatural human being. He doesn’t use this framing.
@@DyzeDyze Thankyou for your comment. If you check the 'Cosmic Sceptic ' Alex O'conner on Jordan Peterson which shows Jordan stating that God is mythical.
Amazing Peterson who has never even said he’s a Christian, has converted so many to Christianity. Our Lord works in miraculous ways and He can use anyone to lead another to Him. Even a man who isn’t even yet a Christian. We shall see.
He Never was converted to begin with. He had only mentally assented to the belief in Christianity it's doubtful now that he is even saved today
You don't know that.
@@TCgirl What do you mean?
This seems quite incongruous to me. Whilst I can appreciate Jordan Peterson on certain issues, particularly those surrounding free speech, I have always found him to be underwhelming, to say the very least, when he starts to discuss religion. In fact, to be perfectly frank, I have often felt that he comes out with little more than verbal diarrhoea on the topic. Sam Harris literally wiped the floor with Peterson during their discussion, and Cosmic Sceptic recently issued a very apposite expose which I found pretty convincing.
Someone help me here.. I kind of understand how he went back to believing in God, but I’m not understanding at all why he went back to Christianity? One can believe in God and not be Christian. So I’m not sure how he got from believing in God again, to being Christian again.
There are not many Truths in life. And they're often difficult to recognise. One Truth he spoke of was that we are so limited as human beings that we cannot know what is True. It's down to feelings, choice and faith. Pretty much in that order.
The question that came up but he never addressed was where do those feelings come from. And what is their True nature.
So ultimately is atheism a weaker position than not, as he says it is?
I think he said we are ignorant of most things, a statement I would agree with. Human beings invent truth, or "Truth." How could we not know something that we invent? And I don't get whatever point you are making about feelings. Care to elaborate?
I'm sorry if he led you anywhere. There are genuine, intellectually honest and coherent intellectuals to defend Christianity. He isn't one of them
There's no mystery regarding Wise's conversion. Like Peterson, he suffered and found comfort in religion. Some people do that, and others who suffer do not.
God is love. Your logic will not hold good forever but love is the presence of God, which holds good.
Blessings. Tku for the two episodes.. But did not hear mentioning the Word of God and the New Birth
Nobody is the BEST at convincing people of a position (even though certain people are in general more skilled than others at it). People’s minds are wired differently. Peterson makes the BEST arguments for some people, yet other people (even people who agree with him Peterson) won’t find him that special and they will consider someone else to be much better.
I’m eclectic, I graze different things from different people, I have my favorites, but only in category specific things. I don’t have an overall best.
He says he used to be an atheist and used to tell Christians he probably knows Christianity better than they do and that they're wrong. Now he claims to be a Christian and is telling atheists he understands what it is to be atheist and they're wrong. To me, he just sounds like someone you shouldn't pay much attention to.
He claims he idolized Jesus as the ideal person, all through his atheist period, which he defines as the period when he "stopped believing in God". Note this isn't the same as believing gods don't exist. He even says he was probably more deist, which is a subset of theism, because it requires belief in a god! I know many atheists. I am one. I've attended atheist conventions. I'm a member of atheist groups (online and in person). I don't know any other atheists who idolize Jesus. Many don't believe Jesus even existed as a person. Those that do, don't believe he performed any of the claimed miracles, but was just another Jewish preacher of the time. Some may think there is a lot of merit in the message Jesus is alleged to have delivered (like the sermon on the mount), but even those people will acknowledge there are many better examples of great moral messages.
After watching both videos I can't tell you why he became a Christian again, because he gave no specifics. Justin did try to push him a few times, but he seems to have learned how to spew word salad from Jordan Peterson, because there were a lot of words that told us very little. If you're a believer, who just wanted another feel-good story, I'm sure this worked for you. For the rest of us, it came across as a wordy but hollow excuse to justify his infatuation with Jenny.
Is AronRa really an atheist when he ironically prays to Satan?
Is Richard Dawkins really an atheist when he writes so many books attacking a Being he knows doesn't exist?
In my opinion, atheism is Satanism, atheists know God that exists but chose to rebel against Him.
@@hwd7 You seem confused. Aron Ra does not pray to Satan. It's pretty easy to find Aron Ra explaining how the form of satanism he aligns with is atheistic, in that it uses Satan merely as a symbol, not as a being thought to exist.
Similarly, any attacks on God by Dawkins are attacks on the character of God, as described in the Bible and by followers, as interpreted by him. He does not believe that character is real. It is exactly the same as someone may critique the character of Darth Vader in the Star Wars universe. You can attack the character without believing it is real.
While your opinion on atheism and God is noted, I can confirm with 100% certainty that it is wrong. There is very little we can be that certain of in life, but our own beliefs are among them. As I know I do not believe in your God or any other proposed gods, but rather believe none of them exist and are all the creations of human minds, I know that this particular atheist is no more rebelling against God than against the aforementioned Darth Vader.
Having said all that, I'm not sure how your questions or opinion relate to my original comment. I did not claim John was not an atheist previously. I simply pointed out his description of his atheist period is not typical of the many atheists I know. Therefore, his experiences in converting to Christianity should also not be assumed to be typical (or even relevant) to other atheists in general.