people definitely have a right to anonymity but i think the reason this rankled so many people (including myself) is because it was a very hypocritical stance for her to take. she wanted privacy and preached the right to her own privacy while actively encouraging a culture which didn't consider celebrities to be people who were deserving of privacy.
I agree. I think if a creator or celebrity is not harming or exposing or drama fill and they are just making content for example corpse. I watch his content and am a fan of his music. He is a positive creator and doesn’t harm anyone with his content so I think he has the right to stay anonymous and creators like that deserves it.
Yup, that's the line for me too. I think Corpse and/or Dream have the right to stay both faceless and anonymous forever if they so choose - precisely because their brand isn't stalking others, invading their privacy and posting that online for your audience of a million +.
@@thelexicon7294 Can find both their faces easily but they do deserve privacy. However, Using any social media your privacy is already gone corporations have easy access and then tech autists can find everything easily.
I do think people have a right to anonymity, however when you make it your job to violate other people's privacy you can't complain when it's done to you. Doxing is an internet no no for a reason.
I think DeuxMoi was different because not only was she violating celebrities' privacy, she would post photos of their kids. From her comments it seemed like she believed she was entitled to privacy, but celebrities or people associated with them were not and I think that double standard didn't sit right with people. But I don't think you can separate privacy from anonymity in the current cultural climate. When you have people showing up at celebrities/influencers houses, and other people defending that kind of behavior, it fosters a belief that anyone with a following does not have a right to privacy so I can understand why people would want to be anonymous.
Here in Germany there are actually laws around taking pictures of celebrities but especially about their kids. They aren't allowed to publish the kids faces unless the parents agree. Which I think is how it should be everywhere, just because mommy and daddy are somewhat famous doesn't mean that the kids just lose all rights to privacy. You don't hear this shit about celebrities being chased here because they will sue and they will probably win. Even without laws we respect people's privacy just a lot more. I've seen Martin Freeman run around my city a few years ago when he was filming something in the area. Love that guy and I saw how other people definitely noticed who he was as well but people just looked and then went back to minding their own business so he could do his touristy thing like everyone else. We also had the Avengers Civil War that was filmed a bit in our cities airport and people took pictures there but nowhere else in the city when they saw the celebs. It's just one of these unwritten rules of German society I guess. Definitely how it should be everywhere just leave these people alone unless they are actually working.
In estonia i'm pretty sure it's also illegal to take pictures/videos of people without their consent. At least that's what i've been told. Which is a stark contrast to what i've heard of america, where anyone can just randomly post you on their tiktok for some reason
Creepshow also broke the rule of posting about family members of subjects in the forum. Posing as someone else, she doxxed her own sibling. I think that may have been the actual trigger that caused the site to expose her, but I can't remember. As far as privacy vs. anonymity, I think you have every right to keep your entire identity private in many contexts. There have been plenty of artists and writers throughout history who did so. But this person is in extremely dubious territory.
yes that was the trigger, she already broke rules about self promotion and spreading hate about yourself but the doxxing of someone not involved really caught the eyes of the mods which i supposed prompted them to investigate into her ip
Posting completely unsubstantiated rumors is so out of line I don't think it's outrageous to "start a rumor" about DeuxMoi's identity. If you watch every single story of hers for a day or two it's easy to notice that the majority of them are either too vague to apply to one person or obviously fictional. Because of her large following the blind items can actually gain traction in the media and negatively impact celebrities lives. Regarding the sightings, I also think it's one thing to say "I saw Kanye at McDonald's yesterday" vs a photo of him eating from across the street/"he comes here every Tuesday at 6PM and he was talking to his friends about xyz." Even if it's a public place everyone deserves a little respect and privacy.
When you’re just posting your interests or hobbies I fully think you should be able to be anonymous. When you’re posting about other people or things that impact others I think that right is taken away. You’re bringing their name into things, they deserve the same right.
As a faceless youtuber this video definitely made me think about things I had never even considered before. I personally feel like it should be allowed for creators to remain anonymous, but it's an interesting discussion for sure!
I don’t think the issue is about anonymity on its own, but that the account was violating the privacy of others, while asking the world to let her keep her privacy.
This is why vtubing so attractive and becoming a larger niche in the streaming world day-by-day. It allows people to play a character that can move around, talk, and express their emotions all while doing things that normal streamers do. Yet, it lets you keep your identity a secret.
@@Iceechibi being a vtuber is the most appealing thing tbh, no matter what kind of content you make you can actually be faceless while still being super expressive and personable. I always wanted to make content but didn’t want my face online so when vtubers became popular it inspired me a lot lol
I think people are too entitled to information nowadays. Like other people have said in the comments, it's useful to know names/faces when people are being toxic and/or breaking the law, but for example freaking companies shouldn't be googling my name to find out any """dirt""" like political affiliation, marital status and if I have children instead of setting up an interview to see if I'm a good fit for the job.
Some fairly big creators are anonymous. I don't think we know the Internet Historian's name or face, for example. But if you want to keep things private while creating content, so long as you're not hurting anyone, sure.
I do believe anonymity should be a choice public figures should be able to have. Fans have no boundaries so it can be safer and easier to sepperate work life balance. Also it has one last thing to worry about especially for those self conscious about how they look. There is also stuff like it can affect other careers or personal life. Like think about romance and erotica writters. A lot of them use fake pen names for a good reason as it is so controversial and they may not want their family to know. Also another good reason for fake identities can have to do with maybe you are lgbtq and want to be out there online and talk to people without your family knowing. There are so many good reasons for anonymity to be important online. This is why I am always so annoyed when people try to figure out who faceless TH-camrs are or try to get into celebrities personal lives and try to find out more about them. As we do not own them they have the right to share whatever and how much they feel comfortable sharing and I think fans should respect it. Like maybe talking and gossiping with a few friends about celebrity stuff is fine we all do it a bit. It is natural but there is a difference between doing it with one person privately but doing it online and treating everything like a mystery to be solved just feels wrong. When it comes to the deux moi situation I do believe she had the right to choose to be anonymous but it was a very hypocritical desicion for her to do so. People do have the full right to criticize her for doing so but it was her choice. I do not agree with her account and what she was doing. I think a way encourageing people to share private information about celebrities and encouraging them to take photos of them when they are not working and deserve some privacy is not right. But I think she has as much right to privacy and has the right to have the choice of anonymity as everyone else does and I wish she believed that all those celebrities’ privacy were as important as her own.
Its not doxxing if they published their own names on their accounts. You can't blame the guy for simply being able to find something from a couple of years ago.
It didn't take long actually. It just needed someone to be curious enough to look for both of them. I did start to do some research that the investigator did but I didn't finish. Im glad they did the research because I was curious on who was behind the account. Also she literally named her company her own name. If she really wanted to be private she should have used a LLC or something.
I think it can absolutely depend on what kind of content they are trying to do anonymously. People have brought up internet historian as an example of someone who really isn’t making content that is focused on themselves or is harmful to other people in any way, and so like, I think it’s fine if he wants to be anonymous. Jaidenanimations, while she did go to a vidcon as herself before her “face reveal” had her face shared online more than she really wanted and at a time she was fighting an ED and I think she should have had more control over how her face was shared. On the other side there’s Libs of TikTok who is promoting a lot of political conspiracy theories, openly accused people, like a sex-ed teacher of being a predator, and basically took small LGBT+ individuals on TikTok and exposed them to her audience for ridicule, some of these clips being featured by people like Tucker Carlson. I just don’t think it’s fair for a person like that to be able to throw around all that power, subject people to harassment for their job or identity, but be completely shielded from any consequences of doing so.
You can tell if someone has ever done even 5 seconds of research themselves, or if they just read some headlines from MSM articles about a subject, based on the shit they regurgitate as "facts". Libs of Tiktok was an account that just reuploaded tiktokers' own videos unedited to Twitter to expose them to a larger audience. Originally there was no editorialising and she would just leave it up to the audience to make their own judgements. After she started getting attacked by the far left wackjobs, she got a lot more popularity too as people became more aware just exactly what was going on in American schools. Especially during lockdown with WFH and Homeschooling / Zoom classes. She's never "promoted conspiracy theories" (unless you mean about Disney's "gay agenda" which isn't a conspiracy theory since their own executives confirmed it's actually a thing they're pushing for in ALL children's media) and as for "accusing a teacher of being a predator"... Huh you mean the teacher who was later arrested and found to have been in possession of a massive amount of CP? Or one of the many teachers she's shared tiktoks from who were later caught in paedophile ring sting operations? Just a coincidence they happen to be sharing groomer type content and turned out to be groomers i guess? Also as for clips being featured on Tucker Carlson... again this was AFTER being doxxed by libs of tiktok and a direct response to the harassment by Taylor "it's fun to doxx people except when it happens to me" Lorenz. She had to go to FOX News of all placed to get the truth of the matter out (talk about irony), because CNN and NBC etc didn't want to give her a voice, and didn't want people to hear about the death threats, harassment and bullying she'd faced IN REAL LIFE because of Taylor Lorenz's doxxing. She had to move house, because of people calling and threatening her, but this is the supposed "tolerant left". Anyone who thinks it's "justified" to harass and bully and threaten someone IRL because of opinions posted online is a lunatic who needs serious mental help. The fact that she got death threats simply for reuploading tiktokers' own words, without comment or editing, shows just how fucked the world is. You shouldn't harass anyone online either, but at least online you can just block people. Taking it to the level of doxxing is criminal, and Lorenz should be behind bars at this point for all the harm she has done and continues to do in the world with her straight up LIES and slander. Did you know she's ALREADY being sued for defamation by someone?
a couple months ago deuxmoi posted a blind item about an asian superhero who had been spotted dating his boss. it was obvious referring to simu liu. it was also obviously the plot of his character on the show kim's convenience. so they literally post anything and most of the stuff is made up. but people keep trying to use them as a source for celebrity gossip
Dafuq?! Not my Sha/Jung being touted as real life tea 😭 Whats next? Asian actress who stars in Cannibal Movie spotted kissing her friend and friend’s girlfriend?
It's like Sia being on covers with headlines like this is the most famous songwriter in the world and you'll never know what she looks like and it's like... Her old music videos are on her TH-cam page with her face
Only heard about them recently bc they’re subreddit apparently became basically the only sub that was supporting Amber Heard (or full of Amber Heard supporters/posts) during the trial. I didn’t know what they actually did until this video haha
I mean I use my real name on TH-cam so I’m not overly caring about anonymity but my socials outside of Facebook I do not blatantly use my name. I’m a small business creator/designer who was anonymous in a lot of my hobby groups because I joined them for myself not for my business. I recently did a big monthly collab with a lot of creators in my field and because of that I lost my anonymity everywhere. Maybe not to the casual participant but other designers know me now and it feels weird. I’m still kind of dealing with the feelings I have towards that. I chose to participate and reveal myself but it’s complicated. Nothing negative came from it and I’m nothing but positive in these groups and I’ve always been careful about my online presence (not that I’m hiding anything nefarious I swear😅) so it’s not like I’ve been revealed to be a horrible person or anything but it’s strange to know that people now have easy access to my internet history dating back 15 years almost instead of just the 2 my business has had a presence. I don’t think privacy vs anonymity and what people are entitled to has a true black and white answer, like life as a whole it’s super complicated. I do think people have a right to how much of their personal life is exposed online but it’s definitely hard when you’re comfortable sharing things on a more personal “private” level to a select group and then your separate larger “professional” audience gets a hold of that when you didn’t intend for them to.
I think privacy should be basic standard so long as harm isn't done using it (EG, hatemail, harassment, endangerment, threats to wellbeing mental health or life). A lot of folks don't start out with the mindset that they'll be a Somebody one day so they'll be photos or videos forever imprinted online of like, their home, the area they live, pets, family, themselves and anything else they share online. Same case for folks who will take to online aliases instead of their actual names. It's a safe escape to be yourself when your family, country or friend-group aren't as accommodating of you as you'd need. Wouldn't know a lot about myself today if it weren't for strangers online rambling out loud about their experiences and stories! You do tend to notice the overlaps and draw your own conclusions, even if you're an internet-lurker. Always thankful for the LGBTQIA+ and neurodivergent communities speaking their mind, it improved my life for the better and they mightn't even know it. ♥
i definitely agree that the criticism against deuxmoi wasn't just misogyny. people like Enty Lawyer have their own specific criticisms (racism and pink mafia panic in his case) levied against them, but i think the whole reason deuxmoi was under so much scrutiny is she intentionally created a brand on one of the most used social media platforms. if celebrities are aware of CDAN or other similar independent blog sites, they don't tend talk about them- as soon as famous people started talking about deuxmoi in public i knew it was over for her. in any case i'm gonna plug a podcast i listen to, Eating for Free, which will eventually do a series on the history of blind items and their impact on celeb culture if anyone's interested! i also think it's funny that deuxmoi got a tv show(?) deal like- who is gonna want to act in a show about a blind item blogger who might have published negative opinions/rumors about them? lol
I honestly think this is such a strange question to ask at all. I understand in the situation of duexmoi that people want to know who the person is that is ignoring all these celebrities privacy, but in the case of the average internet user or even faceless youtubers, I really dont get why it matters. Why do we care what a persons name is or what they look like, other than a fans curiosity? What does knowing either of those things do anyway? We already have a "name" to call them and usually a representative picture of them whether thats art or their gaming character. Online, I dont think anyone is entitled to anything other than basic human respect. No one is entitled to anonymity, but at the same time, no one is entitled to knowing everyones identity. I think the only thing that matters is what a person chooses to put on the internet and respecting that unless they are harming people. I dont think the person that found out duexmoi's identity did anything wrong if it was easy to find out through public information, but I also dont think duexmoi did anything wrong by not advertising who she is.
Anonymity is different from a total lack of responsibility. Also my personal thing as an individual is there are some accounts I let people I know in real life follow and ones where if you find me I will block you.
i don't know if anyone has a right to anonymity, but I would argue anonymity is a necessary component of democracy. We live in a culture controlled by the public jury, being able to express dissenting opinions without repercussions in the real world is vital. While I'm not a fan of celebrity gossip sites, they are required if we are to have access to dissenting political ideas and viewpoints. Otherwise who gets to police who is anonymous.
Correction: self posting IS allowed on lc, but only if the user trip codes, posts proof they are who they say, and emails admins 1st. There are confirmed posters on lc but they are VERY FEW instances and most of the time people get banned for it.
as interesting it is to follow their leaks, i agree that it is SUPER hypocritical to want privacy while simultaneously appropriating that of celebrities. there’s definitely the “whistleblowing”-argument that they might “expose” quote-on-quote “bad” or even properly *bad* behaviour, but while that for sure does happen, it’s absolutely not the majority category of stuff they post. on the other hand, i think for the most part, they are nothing compared with 00s paparazzi, for whatever that’s worth. much of what they post is also pretty tame and not really specific or detailed enough to “truly” violate people’s privacy (?), only enough to create a little stir. but then again, when it *is* stuff that’s more personal or detail, the fact that not much is properly corroborated makes is somehow worse? it’s also VERY strange how they are verified on insta, the fact that they have MERCH (??), and how some celebrities feel the need to follow them too
i think being private and having anonymity is something people should be able to choose, but i think the moment you don't get to have anonymity is when you make content like deuxmoi. violating the privacy of others, basically stalking people for content and money, and etc. clout is a disease. if you want to participate in privacy violation, i think you lose your privilege of privacy and anonymity. if you're going to be a piece of sh!t on the internet, i think you deserve the backlash and the consequences. these rumors are defamation and privacy violation is a crime. a name should be put on it. i think a close example are sasaeng accounts. accounts with stalker fans of mainly kpop idols or korean celebrities (including but not limited to tv personalities and athletes). some of them have faces to them so they are often recognizable and there can be things done to them and penalize them. but during the 90s, it used to be really bad in south korea because the laws around stalking were pretty lax (which included a penalty fee and maybe a couple years in prison but never long enough). nowadays it's changing, but it's nowhere near what it should be. so for a while sasaengs were able to to exist because of two main reasons: 1) punishment wasn't that bad and 2) lots of them were rich people who were nepotism babies so they had LOTS of connections that could have their parents pay the government to let them off with a lighter sentence. however its become a little easier to defend against sasaengs, at least with foreign stalkers. for example Twice's Nayeon has a German stalker named Josh and he's been in SK multiple times, but they have finally implemented that if he ever steps foot in South Korea ever again, he is to be arrested on sight and deported. And i bring this up not only because I like kpop, but i think stalkers like Josh don't deserve anonymity and privacy. not only are people like him scum, but they thrive off the privacy of others whether it's for themselves or for clout. maybe i'm a little mean, but i think people like him deserve to be doxxed. being stalked is insanely traumatizing and stalkers often don't get punished enough, so yeah i'll say it. they deserve all the sh!tty things they did to other people to be directed right back at them. i don't think it really matters that duexmoi is only posting fan submissions, the fact that some of the submissions are real, it still has her name and brand on it because she is the one who posted it and exposed it. clearly the person who sent it wasn't posting it, so the fact duexmoi posted it means that she has to pay the consequences. i don't think she deserves to be private when she pretty clearly wants to make content exposing the privacy of others. i think those are pretty sensible rules to play by since it really isn't that hard to not be a piece of sh!t on the internet and doxx other people, normal people don't do that sh!t. she chose to post this kind of content, it's no one's fault but hers. it's not like someone is forcing her to do this, so i don't see why she shouldn't have to face the consequences.
I think that being a content creator alone doesn't rob you of the right to anonimity (and if you had stans like corpses, you'd understand why he likes it that way), but anyone who wants to make anything that is public should be prepared to lose that anononymity in some way. I agree with the general consensus this specific person pretty much did away with it with how they act
I'm not a public figure but I've enjoyed having my main twitter account be nameless and faceless for the past two years and I've learned that it's basically impossible to remain entirely anonymous unless you go to GREAT lengths. It helps that most of my friends who interact with that account are online friends that dont often address me by my name anyway and I've never posted a pic besides a few of my cat (no windows) but I'm 100% sure if someone was motivated enough they could find out my name and where I lived or link my speech patterns to my old public but small twitter account that does have more info. If I ever became a creator I'd instantly delete/private those but that's not something I have to worry about. I do think ppl are entitled to anonymity of not public information or if they're not a public figure. I dont entirely morally agree with naming an nameless faceless person but I think that the more ppl who know about you, the more likely itll happen
Talking about faceless youtubers and anonymity would be a very interesting topic to hear your thoughts on. I would also be interested in how you see the Vtubing community because it is wild. Vtubing in my opinion is like being faceless but also giving yourself a face and new name. Also vtuber communites are crazy sometimes... A deep dive into Vtubers could be another installment of whats not a cult but feels like a cult honestly.
I think there are cases where anonymity should be protected. Like if someone is a whistleblower or a victim of a crime/tragic event, or write books under a different name than their legal name (a lot of web novelist writing lgbtq+ content do not write under their real name, and sometimes that might be for safety as some do not live in countries where it's safe to be queer). But when it comes to deuxmoi it feels very hypocritical. Many years ago the identity of the author of the book (and blog with the same name) 'Girl with a one-track mind' was revealed. If I remember correctly she decided to be anonymous so that she could freely share about her sex life, as well as she didn't want people to judge her based on her appearance. As soon as it happened people were either she is or isn't attractive. As you said, Amanda, it's fascinating that we focus more on looks than the person behind the pen name.
My view is that people have a right to the degree of privacy or anonymity they want, but if their online presence infringes on those same rights for others or causes people harm then they lose that right.
I feel like anonymity is part of privacy. I want to have my work out there so I can easily be found for work, But I can't have my face online because I escaped abuse by changing everything in my life for them to not find me. So yes I believe very strongly in the night to anonymity. But that also doesn't mean that someone is exempt from consequence, like if someone is actively harming people online, if we want it or not sooner or later their anonymity will be taken away to stop their harm. Because people are more careful when they aren't annon compared to when they are.
maybe within the argument for/against anonymity is one for Accountability? Like if deumoix's career is based off spreading gossip about other people, then she ought be to be held Accountable for the consequences of what she spreads. And to properly be held accountable in this situation, she ought to be able to be subjected to the same treatment she gives other people, therefore she loses anonymity? People should be entitled to anonymity, but there are for sure situation-specific instances where someone has got to be held accountable.
Could you argue that she did this to herself by not probably disguising her voice and not fully wipe her online past? If someone really cared why not disguise her voice? Idk, it’s just a oxymoron to take about others and “ paparazzi “ celebs whilst hiding herself?? Makes me thing hm
I personally love a capture the flag (CTG -- the flag here being DeuxMoi identity) open source investigation (OSINT) challenge, so I'm very interested in this! Couldn't care less about DeuxMoi and whatever the "tea" is here.
I've got mixed feelings about the deanonymazation of accounts. The right to be anonymous is important, especially for teens in nonsupportive environments, or thinking of authors with pen names. But I think doxxing Deux Moi and revealing the CreepShowArt posts makes sense because of the content? I wonder if some people are celebrating revenge, like it's fair that if you want to butt into private moments of celebrities, you shouldn't feel safe either. That feels gross too. Long comment to say, I think the right to privacy and anonymity goes both ways: I think if you want to be anonymous on the internet, you have that right until you break the rules (CreepShowArt). Deux Moi is more interesting because it's more of a social rule that she broke, not letting celebrities have a semblance of "anonymity" in their daily lives, just because of how they make money. I don't know the fix, but while I don't have a lot of sympathy for her because of her content, I do think she had the right to stay faceless. I don't like the precedent it sets for doxxing other internet people who you disagree with.
The tabloid companies that hire them probably. The paparazzis themselves. Some have been interviewed before and gone on record to say they have no issues with their job.
I would say that DeuxMoi has experienced clear irony of life. By blowing up to mil+ subs, basically acquired status of "celebrity" for themselves and it only make sense that new rules now apply to them as well. Especially when you gain popularity by DOXing people and posting "not always true" rumours :D I think if you do this good (meaning big enough impact) its only a question of when, not if.
I actually just heard about Deusmoi for the first time last week bc they’re subreddit was apparently one of the only ones who supported Amber Heard during the trial w Johnny Depp. When I was doing some googling online about the trial I stumbled upon the sub and was surprised to see that so many Amber followers/believers had taken over that sub.
I think everyone has the right to anonymity as long as they're not violating anyone's privacy, mostly because the anonymity is part of protecting the person's privacy these days.
I think anonymity vs privacy is something most Americans need to understand better when it comes to social media. Americans have this idea of “privacy” and fear of “big brother” when it comes to the internet, but the internet is a PUBLIC SPACE, we just access it from the privacy of our home. We SHOULDNT have anonymity on the internet, just like we shouldn’t when our in public. Like the fact that it’s illegal to flash someone in person but not via electronic device is insane. And if you were sending nasty letters to someone’s home that’s considered harassment, but online it’s just trolling. We say people “hide behind their keyboard” but that’s because society lets them. That’s how “canceling” was born, there needs to be consequences to your actions, things you say and do online don’t happen in a vacuum.
I wonder if the reason people value faces over names is because of the strength of their parasocial relationships. They want to feel closer to these public figures that they view as friends, and knowing what they look like is more intimate in a sense than just knowing their name. But I suppose people also value knowing people’s real names as shown by people jumping at the chance to use TH-camrs’ names in their comments as if to prove they’re a “real” fan. Which I honestly think is pretty uncomfortable when it’s a channel that only ever refers to themselves by their channel name.
I think anonymity is a right like most things. But like in the case with creepshow, once a law or rule is broken regarding that, you've given the right for it to be leaked. And if you are disrespectful to people's privacy, whether they want to be anonymous or not, then don't be surprised if someone decides to leak your info. Basically people should be allowed to be anonymous and/or private if they want. But it's always a risk for all that to be leaked. Whether or not you're seen as a victim then depends on the circumstances.
I do believe people have a right to anonymity, idk if it's because I'm just used to it. I grew up when pretty much everyone around me on social media had either a fully or a partially made up name and just generally sharing personal info was not expected, kinda the opposite actually - especially in fandom spaces, because growing up in a homophobic country one of the last things you'd want is for your parents/peers to discover your interests or sexuality (still very much a trend in my country, i feel like). I generally think there is way to much oversharing on social media these days. But I do agree that if the person is violating others privacy, or they are like threatening someone they don't deserve to remain anonymous
I am pretty much anonymous on social media, nobody really knows what I look like or sound like but then have an entirely separate public persona in person. Both are pretty much the same but very rarely does anyone figure it out. The Nick Money thing has been a joke about my 50 plus Nick's in my school and my family last name has a lot of history attached to it.
Welles Ntertainment. Wear an Orson Welles mask, or superimpose Orson Welles face over yours. Excellent video. Agreed with all points made. Specifically your point about what the actual goal is for outing the identities of anonymous social media personalities. It's a question I've always had and never found a great answer for. What is the specific ultimate goal to achieve with divulging that identity? Your speculation that it could be ultimately about gauging the physical attractiveness of said identity makes a *lot* of sense. It's absurd yet so utterly human. In the case of Deuxmoi, I'm not sympathetic to their identities (likely) being revealed. It could be that I"m indifferent to the culture they cover, and if so that's a reflection on my own callousness. It could be that I feel in some way that a justice has been served. That some kind of egalitarian balance is found if Deuxmoi is unable to report on the people they do without people knowing who they are outside of the Deuxmoi account. Taking a step back and considering that, it's not very satisfying. But for me, neither is the content Deuxmoi posts to begin with. So ymmv as regards to your own feelings of justification. Sorry for the long-winded post. The subject of anonymity of a creator has always interested me greatly. In electronic music, this used to be extremely important for several popular/influential producers. In fact, I'd *love* to hear your take on the artist Burial and their own identity being outed, if you're ever inclined. I think you'd find some great content there...
lol i remember when people on twitter were posting who is assumed to be corpse husband, and everyone was throwing a fit because he's not as hot as they thought he was, because his avatar is of a tall skinny dude and the guy they were seeing was short and fat
I mean, his avatar also has horns... what were they expecting? In general I'd say that people deserve to keep whatever parts of their identities they want to keep private, private. But in my opinion you lose that right when you publicly deny that right to others.
It's awful but I mean it's the same as star magazine and other tabloids like that. I remember how crazy they were before the internet. Crazy stories that were obviously fake but they sold.
I do think everyone has a right to anonymity on the internet. That said, my sympathy for that anonymity being stripped away is much reduced when the position was abused to continuously attack others with baseless rumours. There has to be some kind of repercussion for that, otherwise what dissuades anyone from formulating fake, viscous allegations about someone they take issue with?
I think creators who do not make their business other people's business. I e artists or writers or musicians do deserve anonymity, if they want it ,especially if they do not use their public persona for political movements. But once your business is other people's business you cannot be mad when your personal business becomes other people's business. Much like when Wendy Williams was going through it and people were airing her laundry out, she could not be angry about that. she could only sit through it because her business is celebrity gossip and so as a celebrity she can't be mad that other people are getting a bag off of her misfortune, when it's The type of content she built her fortune off of. If you are willing to post uncooberated and possibly fictitious statements about people and make money off of that you don't deserve anonymity, privacy but not anonymity.
When you are actively targeting or impacting others then no, I do not believe you have the right to anonymity because its very well established that you have a reasonable right to 'face your accuser'. Im not arguing that the 6th amendment applies specifically to this case, but like the 1st there is reasoning behind it that is morally applicable far outside its legislative bounds. I dont want to be too reductive, there are of course plenty of more complex exceptions, but generally you dont get to attack someone while also leaving them at a fundamental disadvantage in any response, by cloaking all the details of who you are, your motives, etc, unless that reveal puts you in imminent danger. Anonymous creators who are just streaming for light entertainment, making music, etc maintain a right to anonymity as the extent of their impact ends when you click the close button on your browser. For anonymous commentators who are discussing things in the abstract, sports events, political policy, again they maintain a right to anonymity, but when you start having a direct and targeted effect on individuals, then your anonymity, barring some exceptional circumstances, is forfeit.
on the topic of lolcow: did you ever hear about the gossio gate discord server? its a server with hundreds of different text channels all dedicated to an influencer/influencer group. all the people do there is talk badly about them and they even dox people there. (for example they found out who brook miccios boyfriend is, released pics of him (from an event) and therefore she made it public herself after this happened)
I used to be a member there and a lot of people there are toxic. They shut me and people I knew out of there. Loads of hypocrisy. The original guy who owned the OG gossip gate site prior to the girlie mods taking it over later was also an abuser and they tried to distance themselves from it but ironically lots of nasty people themselves still lurk/post there
I think privacy and anonymity is something everyone should be entitled to, should they want it. I dont believe, barring certain crimes, there is any reason that right should be taken away, regardless of how immoral or hypocritical you think their actions are. I just dont think its a right you should be able to revoke because of xyz. My moral system doesnt work that way.
Same lmao, that’s the only reason I’ve ever heard of Deuxmoi, I didn’t even know they existed before the sub and only found out what they actually did from this video. All I knew was that they’re sub was full of AH supporters during the trial lol
Yes, public figures should have the right to anonymity. Provided, of course, that their content is relatively innocuous. If they’re dragging people or getting political, all bets are off.
I feel like anonymity online needs to disappear in general, people are so comfortable saying foul things online and there never being any blowback. Which I guess is funny since I’m using an anime picture and a fake name. I don’t know.
In general I would say there's certain situations where people are entitled to anonymity, but in the case of deuxmoi I don't think she is because it feels incredibly hypocritical.
This entire thing feels to me like someone just really wanted to be Gossip Girl and didn't realize that people aren't that dumb in real life to not be able to find her out if they really put in the time and effort, and also that she wouldn't have a team of writers giving her plot armour to make sure she would never be found out.
The question of where privacy begins and ends is never an easy one. I'll agree that anonymity just isn't feasible past a certain point. It simply becomes too hard to maintain, and it's only going to get more difficult the deeper we get into the digital age. Whether you want to become a masked TH-camr or not, I will fully support any efforts you might make to becoming the luchador exercise enthusiast, Swole Entertainment.
I don't understand what you mean by "entitled" in this context. Asking if people are "entitled to anonymity" doesn't make sense to me. It seems like the real question is whether the audience is entitled to know their identity, which I don't think they are. That being said, I don't think somebody trying to put the pieces together is doing something wrong. If you can figure out who a creator is using the information they've provided over the years, I don't think it's doxxing to share your findings or theories. Like the example you gave of you starting a new anonymous channel and it being linked to your google ad account; if a fan noticed that and said "hey, looks like this channel is also run by Amanda," that doesn't feel like a breach of your rights to me. Also, in case anybody is wondering, Banksy's real name is Robert Del Naja and he wrote the theme song to House MD (not a joke)
Yes Amanda, it's not even a question. Everyone absolutely has the right to anonymity. Even this specific 2moi creator has the right to anonymity, regardless of her hypocrisy and garbage-tier content.
I think it depends. As a content creator myself who uses a "secret identity," there's a quiet kind of unspoken agreement within the community I'm a part of where doxxing is just not okay under any circumstances and there are many reasons people can relate to and understand that agreement. Things like being self-conscious, social anxiety, body image, mental health concerns obviously. Things like that have formed a protective barrier of sorts and allows this interesting environment where we all collectively agree that everyone in that space (whether they're a public creator or not) to look out for, and protect eachother's right to anonymity because we're also protecting our own by reinforcing those guidelines. Kind of like if one person is doxxed, the flood gates will open and no one wants that. As for DeuxMoi's situation... idk I think that paints a very interesting situation where you can blame DeuxMoi for the wrongdoing of exposing these celebrities but also is it really just them or are we going to say the quiet part out loud and also blame the submitters and people who followed and commented and participated? Granted, my first intro to DeuxMoi is this video so I don't know much about them lol but it sounds a like a bit of scapegoating, a lot of public personal responsibility that ends up revealing how nosy people can be when given the platform to be anonymous, and maybe the idea that we all secretly want to be in on the hollywood secrets but don't think about what needs to happen in order for accounts like DeuxMoi to have blown up and gained attention aka celebrities' anonymity is now at the hands of the public. The idea that "We put them there, so now we want a part of the mystical pie and so we cut it out from them."
I have no idea who this person is, but I watched the whole video. I clicked on it thinking it would be a topical discourse on the subject of anonymity v privacy when it comes to using the internet. E.g. Social media allows you to be “anonymous” but keeps track of everything you say and do, your searches, your contacts, your location, etc, and the wrong people could easily get all of that information. Would still be an interesting topic to cover, I think.
I would not say do you have the right rather do you have the expectations pf being anonymous on the internet cuz what you want is kind if irrelevant the internet is the internet and it will do whatever it wants
I actually think this is a huge factor in the conversation of whether or not the first amendment should apply to social media. We hear a lot about the fact that social media sites are owned by private companies, who have every legal right to censor whoever they want, seeing as they're not government entities. Folks will argue that social media is the new equivalent of the town square, and I see what they're saying, but a fundamental difference is that you can't be anonymous when you go downtown to protest. You are more accountable for what you say in a true town square. Saying that anonymous accounts online deserve the right to send death threats, troll people, and otherwise say things they would NEVER say in person makes it pretty incomparable, imo. If people had to verify their identities to participate on a given platform, I think it would be fair to expect more freedom of speech. As for whether we deserve anonymity at all..... I think we do. But there need to be checks and balances so that people don't abuse that right.
Spotting celebrities seems wierd. Like, if they're not working and it doesn't seem OK to say hi, why would you take photos and post it? Like it's common sense between what people choose to reveal publicly and what they choose to keep private.
Excited to watch. ✌🏻☮️ There's a definite difference between Privacy and Anonymity. I see so many people that don't understand that specificity in language is the beauty of it... People these days only have a general idea of a word's definition and they use it very wrong ways. The worst part, they are also just making up definitions to keep from learning a new word.🤦🏻♀️ It's one of the many mental epidemics that are crushing my soul.
people definitely have a right to anonymity but i think the reason this rankled so many people (including myself) is because it was a very hypocritical stance for her to take. she wanted privacy and preached the right to her own privacy while actively encouraging a culture which didn't consider celebrities to be people who were deserving of privacy.
I agree. I think if a creator or celebrity is not harming or exposing or drama fill and they are just making content for example corpse. I watch his content and am a fan of his music. He is a positive creator and doesn’t harm anyone with his content so I think he has the right to stay anonymous and creators like that deserves it.
Yup, that's the line for me too. I think Corpse and/or Dream have the right to stay both faceless and anonymous forever if they so choose - precisely because their brand isn't stalking others, invading their privacy and posting that online for your audience of a million +.
@@thelexicon7294 Can find both their faces easily but they do deserve privacy. However, Using any social media your privacy is already gone corporations have easy access and then tech autists can find everything easily.
Nope not when you're acting as media
I do think people have a right to anonymity, however when you make it your job to violate other people's privacy you can't complain when it's done to you. Doxing is an internet no no for a reason.
I think DeuxMoi was different because not only was she violating celebrities' privacy, she would post photos of their kids. From her comments it seemed like she believed she was entitled to privacy, but celebrities or people associated with them were not and I think that double standard didn't sit right with people.
But I don't think you can separate privacy from anonymity in the current cultural climate. When you have people showing up at celebrities/influencers houses, and other people defending that kind of behavior, it fosters a belief that anyone with a following does not have a right to privacy so I can understand why people would want to be anonymous.
Here in Germany there are actually laws around taking pictures of celebrities but especially about their kids.
They aren't allowed to publish the kids faces unless the parents agree. Which I think is how it should be everywhere, just because mommy and daddy are somewhat famous doesn't mean that the kids just lose all rights to privacy.
You don't hear this shit about celebrities being chased here because they will sue and they will probably win. Even without laws we respect people's privacy just a lot more. I've seen Martin Freeman run around my city a few years ago when he was filming something in the area. Love that guy and I saw how other people definitely noticed who he was as well but people just looked and then went back to minding their own business so he could do his touristy thing like everyone else.
We also had the Avengers Civil War that was filmed a bit in our cities airport and people took pictures there but nowhere else in the city when they saw the celebs. It's just one of these unwritten rules of German society I guess.
Definitely how it should be everywhere just leave these people alone unless they are actually working.
In estonia i'm pretty sure it's also illegal to take pictures/videos of people without their consent. At least that's what i've been told. Which is a stark contrast to what i've heard of america, where anyone can just randomly post you on their tiktok for some reason
Creepshow also broke the rule of posting about family members of subjects in the forum. Posing as someone else, she doxxed her own sibling. I think that may have been the actual trigger that caused the site to expose her, but I can't remember.
As far as privacy vs. anonymity, I think you have every right to keep your entire identity private in many contexts. There have been plenty of artists and writers throughout history who did so. But this person is in extremely dubious territory.
I haven’t heard of creepshow in a long time. Gross to think she doxxed her own sibling
yes that was the trigger, she already broke rules about self promotion and spreading hate about yourself but the doxxing of someone not involved really caught the eyes of the mods which i supposed prompted them to investigate into her ip
@@xxtalim and then it turns out she was stalking and terrorizing another TH-camr for a decade. Shit was WILD to watch be revealed
Yep! It was the straw that broke the camel’s back in creepshow’s case. The mods said enough is enough and exposed her ass because of it
Posting completely unsubstantiated rumors is so out of line I don't think it's outrageous to "start a rumor" about DeuxMoi's identity. If you watch every single story of hers for a day or two it's easy to notice that the majority of them are either too vague to apply to one person or obviously fictional. Because of her large following the blind items can actually gain traction in the media and negatively impact celebrities lives. Regarding the sightings, I also think it's one thing to say "I saw Kanye at McDonald's yesterday" vs a photo of him eating from across the street/"he comes here every Tuesday at 6PM and he was talking to his friends about xyz." Even if it's a public place everyone deserves a little respect and privacy.
When you’re just posting your interests or hobbies I fully think you should be able to be anonymous. When you’re posting about other people or things that impact others I think that right is taken away. You’re bringing their name into things, they deserve the same right.
As a faceless youtuber this video definitely made me think about things I had never even considered before. I personally feel like it should be allowed for creators to remain anonymous, but it's an interesting discussion for sure!
I don’t think the issue is about anonymity on its own, but that the account was violating the privacy of others, while asking the world to let her keep her privacy.
@@angie_exe Yes, I think it's different for Deux Moi. I was talking more generally about anonymous creators since Amanda talked about that as well.
This is why vtubing so attractive and becoming a larger niche in the streaming world day-by-day. It allows people to play a character that can move around, talk, and express their emotions all while doing things that normal streamers do. Yet, it lets you keep your identity a secret.
@@Iceechibi being a vtuber is the most appealing thing tbh, no matter what kind of content you make you can actually be faceless while still being super expressive and personable. I always wanted to make content but didn’t want my face online so when vtubers became popular it inspired me a lot lol
I think people are too entitled to information nowadays. Like other people have said in the comments, it's useful to know names/faces when people are being toxic and/or breaking the law, but for example freaking companies shouldn't be googling my name to find out any """dirt""" like political affiliation, marital status and if I have children instead of setting up an interview to see if I'm a good fit for the job.
DEUXMOIX has had many examples of being toxic
Another thing I’ve never heard of, but will still watch Amanda talk about
Some fairly big creators are anonymous. I don't think we know the Internet Historian's name or face, for example. But if you want to keep things private while creating content, so long as you're not hurting anyone, sure.
I do believe anonymity should be a choice public figures should be able to have. Fans have no boundaries so it can be safer and easier to sepperate work life balance. Also it has one last thing to worry about especially for those self conscious about how they look. There is also stuff like it can affect other careers or personal life. Like think about romance and erotica writters. A lot of them use fake pen names for a good reason as it is so controversial and they may not want their family to know. Also another good reason for fake identities can have to do with maybe you are lgbtq and want to be out there online and talk to people without your family knowing. There are so many good reasons for anonymity to be important online.
This is why I am always so annoyed when people try to figure out who faceless TH-camrs are or try to get into celebrities personal lives and try to find out more about them. As we do not own them they have the right to share whatever and how much they feel comfortable sharing and I think fans should respect it. Like maybe talking and gossiping with a few friends about celebrity stuff is fine we all do it a bit. It is natural but there is a difference between doing it with one person privately but doing it online and treating everything like a mystery to be solved just feels wrong.
When it comes to the deux moi situation I do believe she had the right to choose to be anonymous but it was a very hypocritical desicion for her to do so. People do have the full right to criticize her for doing so but it was her choice. I do not agree with her account and what she was doing. I think a way encourageing people to share private information about celebrities and encouraging them to take photos of them when they are not working and deserve some privacy is not right. But I think she has as much right to privacy and has the right to have the choice of anonymity as everyone else does and I wish she believed that all those celebrities’ privacy were as important as her own.
Its not doxxing if they published their own names on their accounts. You can't blame the guy for simply being able to find something from a couple of years ago.
The Ziwe interview with deuxmoi was soooo funny and telling lol
It didn't take long actually. It just needed someone to be curious enough to look for both of them. I did start to do some research that the investigator did but I didn't finish. Im glad they did the research because I was curious on who was behind the account.
Also she literally named her company her own name. If she really wanted to be private she should have used a LLC or something.
I think it can absolutely depend on what kind of content they are trying to do anonymously. People have brought up internet historian as an example of someone who really isn’t making content that is focused on themselves or is harmful to other people in any way, and so like, I think it’s fine if he wants to be anonymous. Jaidenanimations, while she did go to a vidcon as herself before her “face reveal” had her face shared online more than she really wanted and at a time she was fighting an ED and I think she should have had more control over how her face was shared.
On the other side there’s Libs of TikTok who is promoting a lot of political conspiracy theories, openly accused people, like a sex-ed teacher of being a predator, and basically took small LGBT+ individuals on TikTok and exposed them to her audience for ridicule, some of these clips being featured by people like Tucker Carlson. I just don’t think it’s fair for a person like that to be able to throw around all that power, subject people to harassment for their job or identity, but be completely shielded from any consequences of doing so.
You can tell if someone has ever done even 5 seconds of research themselves, or if they just read some headlines from MSM articles about a subject, based on the shit they regurgitate as "facts". Libs of Tiktok was an account that just reuploaded tiktokers' own videos unedited to Twitter to expose them to a larger audience. Originally there was no editorialising and she would just leave it up to the audience to make their own judgements. After she started getting attacked by the far left wackjobs, she got a lot more popularity too as people became more aware just exactly what was going on in American schools. Especially during lockdown with WFH and Homeschooling / Zoom classes. She's never "promoted conspiracy theories" (unless you mean about Disney's "gay agenda" which isn't a conspiracy theory since their own executives confirmed it's actually a thing they're pushing for in ALL children's media) and as for "accusing a teacher of being a predator"... Huh you mean the teacher who was later arrested and found to have been in possession of a massive amount of CP? Or one of the many teachers she's shared tiktoks from who were later caught in paedophile ring sting operations? Just a coincidence they happen to be sharing groomer type content and turned out to be groomers i guess? Also as for clips being featured on Tucker Carlson... again this was AFTER being doxxed by libs of tiktok and a direct response to the harassment by Taylor "it's fun to doxx people except when it happens to me" Lorenz. She had to go to FOX News of all placed to get the truth of the matter out (talk about irony), because CNN and NBC etc didn't want to give her a voice, and didn't want people to hear about the death threats, harassment and bullying she'd faced IN REAL LIFE because of Taylor Lorenz's doxxing. She had to move house, because of people calling and threatening her, but this is the supposed "tolerant left". Anyone who thinks it's "justified" to harass and bully and threaten someone IRL because of opinions posted online is a lunatic who needs serious mental help. The fact that she got death threats simply for reuploading tiktokers' own words, without comment or editing, shows just how fucked the world is. You shouldn't harass anyone online either, but at least online you can just block people. Taking it to the level of doxxing is criminal, and Lorenz should be behind bars at this point for all the harm she has done and continues to do in the world with her straight up LIES and slander. Did you know she's ALREADY being sued for defamation by someone?
a couple months ago deuxmoi posted a blind item about an asian superhero who had been spotted dating his boss. it was obvious referring to simu liu. it was also obviously the plot of his character on the show kim's convenience. so they literally post anything and most of the stuff is made up. but people keep trying to use them as a source for celebrity gossip
Dafuq?! Not my Sha/Jung being touted as real life tea 😭
Whats next? Asian actress who stars in Cannibal Movie spotted kissing her friend and friend’s girlfriend?
It's like Sia being on covers with headlines like this is the most famous songwriter in the world and you'll never know what she looks like and it's like... Her old music videos are on her TH-cam page with her face
So the account is basically gossipgirl?
the funniest part about all this is i've never heard of deuxmoi in my life
Only heard about them recently bc they’re subreddit apparently became basically the only sub that was supporting Amber Heard (or full of Amber Heard supporters/posts) during the trial. I didn’t know what they actually did until this video haha
I mean I use my real name on TH-cam so I’m not overly caring about anonymity but my socials outside of Facebook I do not blatantly use my name. I’m a small business creator/designer who was anonymous in a lot of my hobby groups because I joined them for myself not for my business. I recently did a big monthly collab with a lot of creators in my field and because of that I lost my anonymity everywhere. Maybe not to the casual participant but other designers know me now and it feels weird. I’m still kind of dealing with the feelings I have towards that. I chose to participate and reveal myself but it’s complicated. Nothing negative came from it and I’m nothing but positive in these groups and I’ve always been careful about my online presence (not that I’m hiding anything nefarious I swear😅) so it’s not like I’ve been revealed to be a horrible person or anything but it’s strange to know that people now have easy access to my internet history dating back 15 years almost instead of just the 2 my business has had a presence. I don’t think privacy vs anonymity and what people are entitled to has a true black and white answer, like life as a whole it’s super complicated. I do think people have a right to how much of their personal life is exposed online but it’s definitely hard when you’re comfortable sharing things on a more personal “private” level to a select group and then your separate larger “professional” audience gets a hold of that when you didn’t intend for them to.
I think privacy should be basic standard so long as harm isn't done using it (EG, hatemail, harassment, endangerment, threats to wellbeing mental health or life). A lot of folks don't start out with the mindset that they'll be a Somebody one day so they'll be photos or videos forever imprinted online of like, their home, the area they live, pets, family, themselves and anything else they share online. Same case for folks who will take to online aliases instead of their actual names. It's a safe escape to be yourself when your family, country or friend-group aren't as accommodating of you as you'd need. Wouldn't know a lot about myself today if it weren't for strangers online rambling out loud about their experiences and stories! You do tend to notice the overlaps and draw your own conclusions, even if you're an internet-lurker. Always thankful for the LGBTQIA+ and neurodivergent communities speaking their mind, it improved my life for the better and they mightn't even know it. ♥
i definitely agree that the criticism against deuxmoi wasn't just misogyny. people like Enty Lawyer have their own specific criticisms (racism and pink mafia panic in his case) levied against them, but i think the whole reason deuxmoi was under so much scrutiny is she intentionally created a brand on one of the most used social media platforms. if celebrities are aware of CDAN or other similar independent blog sites, they don't tend talk about them- as soon as famous people started talking about deuxmoi in public i knew it was over for her. in any case i'm gonna plug a podcast i listen to, Eating for Free, which will eventually do a series on the history of blind items and their impact on celeb culture if anyone's interested! i also think it's funny that deuxmoi got a tv show(?) deal like- who is gonna want to act in a show about a blind item blogger who might have published negative opinions/rumors about them? lol
I honestly think this is such a strange question to ask at all. I understand in the situation of duexmoi that people want to know who the person is that is ignoring all these celebrities privacy, but in the case of the average internet user or even faceless youtubers, I really dont get why it matters. Why do we care what a persons name is or what they look like, other than a fans curiosity? What does knowing either of those things do anyway? We already have a "name" to call them and usually a representative picture of them whether thats art or their gaming character. Online, I dont think anyone is entitled to anything other than basic human respect. No one is entitled to anonymity, but at the same time, no one is entitled to knowing everyones identity. I think the only thing that matters is what a person chooses to put on the internet and respecting that unless they are harming people. I dont think the person that found out duexmoi's identity did anything wrong if it was easy to find out through public information, but I also dont think duexmoi did anything wrong by not advertising who she is.
as kind of a rumor vs fact in fandom jumping off point after this video, I’d love to see your take on Larry
Anonymity is different from a total lack of responsibility. Also my personal thing as an individual is there are some accounts I let people I know in real life follow and ones where if you find me I will block you.
You said "she wants the best of both worlds" and the Hannah Montana theme song immediately started playing in my head
i don't know if anyone has a right to anonymity, but I would argue anonymity is a necessary component of democracy. We live in a culture controlled by the public jury, being able to express dissenting opinions without repercussions in the real world is vital. While I'm not a fan of celebrity gossip sites, they are required if we are to have access to dissenting political ideas and viewpoints. Otherwise who gets to police who is anonymous.
I think people have a right to privacy and anonymity, but it can be revoked when they are required to take accountability/engage in severe harm.
Correction: self posting IS allowed on lc, but only if the user trip codes, posts proof they are who they say, and emails admins 1st. There are confirmed posters on lc but they are VERY FEW instances and most of the time people get banned for it.
as interesting it is to follow their leaks, i agree that it is SUPER hypocritical to want privacy while simultaneously appropriating that of celebrities. there’s definitely the “whistleblowing”-argument that they might “expose” quote-on-quote “bad” or even properly *bad* behaviour, but while that for sure does happen, it’s absolutely not the majority category of stuff they post.
on the other hand, i think for the most part, they are nothing compared with 00s paparazzi, for whatever that’s worth. much of what they post is also pretty tame and not really specific or detailed enough to “truly” violate people’s privacy (?), only enough to create a little stir. but then again, when it *is* stuff that’s more personal or detail, the fact that not much is properly corroborated makes is somehow worse?
it’s also VERY strange how they are verified on insta, the fact that they have MERCH (??), and how some celebrities feel the need to follow them too
i think being private and having anonymity is something people should be able to choose, but i think the moment you don't get to have anonymity is when you make content like deuxmoi. violating the privacy of others, basically stalking people for content and money, and etc. clout is a disease. if you want to participate in privacy violation, i think you lose your privilege of privacy and anonymity. if you're going to be a piece of sh!t on the internet, i think you deserve the backlash and the consequences.
these rumors are defamation and privacy violation is a crime. a name should be put on it. i think a close example are sasaeng accounts. accounts with stalker fans of mainly kpop idols or korean celebrities (including but not limited to tv personalities and athletes). some of them have faces to them so they are often recognizable and there can be things done to them and penalize them. but during the 90s, it used to be really bad in south korea because the laws around stalking were pretty lax (which included a penalty fee and maybe a couple years in prison but never long enough). nowadays it's changing, but it's nowhere near what it should be. so for a while sasaengs were able to to exist because of two main reasons: 1) punishment wasn't that bad and 2) lots of them were rich people who were nepotism babies so they had LOTS of connections that could have their parents pay the government to let them off with a lighter sentence.
however its become a little easier to defend against sasaengs, at least with foreign stalkers. for example Twice's Nayeon has a German stalker named Josh and he's been in SK multiple times, but they have finally implemented that if he ever steps foot in South Korea ever again, he is to be arrested on sight and deported.
And i bring this up not only because I like kpop, but i think stalkers like Josh don't deserve anonymity and privacy. not only are people like him scum, but they thrive off the privacy of others whether it's for themselves or for clout. maybe i'm a little mean, but i think people like him deserve to be doxxed. being stalked is insanely traumatizing and stalkers often don't get punished enough, so yeah i'll say it. they deserve all the sh!tty things they did to other people to be directed right back at them.
i don't think it really matters that duexmoi is only posting fan submissions, the fact that some of the submissions are real, it still has her name and brand on it because she is the one who posted it and exposed it. clearly the person who sent it wasn't posting it, so the fact duexmoi posted it means that she has to pay the consequences. i don't think she deserves to be private when she pretty clearly wants to make content exposing the privacy of others. i think those are pretty sensible rules to play by since it really isn't that hard to not be a piece of sh!t on the internet and doxx other people, normal people don't do that sh!t.
she chose to post this kind of content, it's no one's fault but hers. it's not like someone is forcing her to do this, so i don't see why she shouldn't have to face the consequences.
I think that being a content creator alone doesn't rob you of the right to anonimity (and if you had stans like corpses, you'd understand why he likes it that way), but anyone who wants to make anything that is public should be prepared to lose that anononymity in some way. I agree with the general consensus this specific person pretty much did away with it with how they act
I'm not a public figure but I've enjoyed having my main twitter account be nameless and faceless for the past two years and I've learned that it's basically impossible to remain entirely anonymous unless you go to GREAT lengths. It helps that most of my friends who interact with that account are online friends that dont often address me by my name anyway and I've never posted a pic besides a few of my cat (no windows) but I'm 100% sure if someone was motivated enough they could find out my name and where I lived or link my speech patterns to my old public but small twitter account that does have more info. If I ever became a creator I'd instantly delete/private those but that's not something I have to worry about.
I do think ppl are entitled to anonymity of not public information or if they're not a public figure. I dont entirely morally agree with naming an nameless faceless person but I think that the more ppl who know about you, the more likely itll happen
Talking about faceless youtubers and anonymity would be a very interesting topic to hear your thoughts on. I would also be interested in how you see the Vtubing community because it is wild. Vtubing in my opinion is like being faceless but also giving yourself a face and new name. Also vtuber communites are crazy sometimes... A deep dive into Vtubers could be another installment of whats not a cult but feels like a cult honestly.
I think there are cases where anonymity should be protected. Like if someone is a whistleblower or a victim of a crime/tragic event, or write books under a different name than their legal name (a lot of web novelist writing lgbtq+ content do not write under their real name, and sometimes that might be for safety as some do not live in countries where it's safe to be queer). But when it comes to deuxmoi it feels very hypocritical.
Many years ago the identity of the author of the book (and blog with the same name) 'Girl with a one-track mind' was revealed. If I remember correctly she decided to be anonymous so that she could freely share about her sex life, as well as she didn't want people to judge her based on her appearance. As soon as it happened people were either she is or isn't attractive. As you said, Amanda, it's fascinating that we focus more on looks than the person behind the pen name.
My view is that people have a right to the degree of privacy or anonymity they want, but if their online presence infringes on those same rights for others or causes people harm then they lose that right.
I feel like anonymity is part of privacy. I want to have my work out there so I can easily be found for work, But I can't have my face online because I escaped abuse by changing everything in my life for them to not find me. So yes I believe very strongly in the night to anonymity. But that also doesn't mean that someone is exempt from consequence, like if someone is actively harming people online, if we want it or not sooner or later their anonymity will be taken away to stop their harm. Because people are more careful when they aren't annon compared to when they are.
maybe within the argument for/against anonymity is one for Accountability? Like if deumoix's career is based off spreading gossip about other people, then she ought be to be held Accountable for the consequences of what she spreads. And to properly be held accountable in this situation, she ought to be able to be subjected to the same treatment she gives other people, therefore she loses anonymity? People should be entitled to anonymity, but there are for sure situation-specific instances where someone has got to be held accountable.
Didn't know deuxmui exited until I watched a ziwe interview last week.
Could you argue that she did this to herself by not probably disguising her voice and not fully wipe her online past? If someone really cared why not disguise her voice? Idk, it’s just a oxymoron to take about others and “ paparazzi “ celebs whilst hiding herself?? Makes me thing hm
Everyone's probably figured this out by now, but winterburden is a secret identity of mine. I'm actually Swell Simps United. UwU
I personally love a capture the flag (CTG -- the flag here being DeuxMoi identity) open source investigation (OSINT) challenge, so I'm very interested in this!
Couldn't care less about DeuxMoi and whatever the "tea" is here.
I've got mixed feelings about the deanonymazation of accounts. The right to be anonymous is important, especially for teens in nonsupportive environments, or thinking of authors with pen names. But I think doxxing Deux Moi and revealing the CreepShowArt posts makes sense because of the content? I wonder if some people are celebrating revenge, like it's fair that if you want to butt into private moments of celebrities, you shouldn't feel safe either. That feels gross too.
Long comment to say, I think the right to privacy and anonymity goes both ways: I think if you want to be anonymous on the internet, you have that right until you break the rules (CreepShowArt). Deux Moi is more interesting because it's more of a social rule that she broke, not letting celebrities have a semblance of "anonymity" in their daily lives, just because of how they make money. I don't know the fix, but while I don't have a lot of sympathy for her because of her content, I do think she had the right to stay faceless. I don't like the precedent it sets for doxxing other internet people who you disagree with.
vogue 72 questions with deuxmoi i NEED it
Wait who are the freaks that think the paparazzi is good.
The tabloid companies that hire them probably. The paparazzis themselves. Some have been interviewed before and gone on record to say they have no issues with their job.
I remember following Deuxmoi in early 2020 and her account was private
That woman is a disgusting stalker and should be jailed. Definitely does not deserve the privacy she wont grant to others
I would say that DeuxMoi has experienced clear irony of life. By blowing up to mil+ subs, basically acquired status of "celebrity" for themselves and it only make sense that new rules now apply to them as well. Especially when you gain popularity by DOXing people and posting "not always true" rumours :D I think if you do this good (meaning big enough impact) its only a question of when, not if.
I actually just heard about Deusmoi for the first time last week bc they’re subreddit was apparently one of the only ones who supported Amber Heard during the trial w Johnny Depp. When I was doing some googling online about the trial I stumbled upon the sub and was surprised to see that so many Amber followers/believers had taken over that sub.
I think everyone has the right to anonymity as long as they're not violating anyone's privacy, mostly because the anonymity is part of protecting the person's privacy these days.
I think anonymity vs privacy is something most Americans need to understand better when it comes to social media. Americans have this idea of “privacy” and fear of “big brother” when it comes to the internet, but the internet is a PUBLIC SPACE, we just access it from the privacy of our home. We SHOULDNT have anonymity on the internet, just like we shouldn’t when our in public. Like the fact that it’s illegal to flash someone in person but not via electronic device is insane. And if you were sending nasty letters to someone’s home that’s considered harassment, but online it’s just trolling. We say people “hide behind their keyboard” but that’s because society lets them. That’s how “canceling” was born, there needs to be consequences to your actions, things you say and do online don’t happen in a vacuum.
I wonder if the reason people value faces over names is because of the strength of their parasocial relationships. They want to feel closer to these public figures that they view as friends, and knowing what they look like is more intimate in a sense than just knowing their name. But I suppose people also value knowing people’s real names as shown by people jumping at the chance to use TH-camrs’ names in their comments as if to prove they’re a “real” fan. Which I honestly think is pretty uncomfortable when it’s a channel that only ever refers to themselves by their channel name.
This some Gossip Girl stuff.
I think anonymity is a right like most things. But like in the case with creepshow, once a law or rule is broken regarding that, you've given the right for it to be leaked. And if you are disrespectful to people's privacy, whether they want to be anonymous or not, then don't be surprised if someone decides to leak your info.
Basically people should be allowed to be anonymous and/or private if they want. But it's always a risk for all that to be leaked. Whether or not you're seen as a victim then depends on the circumstances.
I do believe people have a right to anonymity, idk if it's because I'm just used to it. I grew up when pretty much everyone around me on social media had either a fully or a partially made up name and just generally sharing personal info was not expected, kinda the opposite actually - especially in fandom spaces, because growing up in a homophobic country one of the last things you'd want is for your parents/peers to discover your interests or sexuality (still very much a trend in my country, i feel like). I generally think there is way to much oversharing on social media these days. But I do agree that if the person is violating others privacy, or they are like threatening someone they don't deserve to remain anonymous
I am pretty much anonymous on social media, nobody really knows what I look like or sound like but then have an entirely separate public persona in person. Both are pretty much the same but very rarely does anyone figure it out. The Nick Money thing has been a joke about my 50 plus Nick's in my school and my family last name has a lot of history attached to it.
Is anyone else UwU to learn Amanda's secret identity? I bet one day we find out she's a real life Spiderman 🥺
boy what the hell boy
What is that username lol
My boy made his own profile picture too😭
I started googling myself during this video.
I have no idea what a deuxmoi is and I feel like that's a win
Welles Ntertainment. Wear an Orson Welles mask, or superimpose Orson Welles face over yours.
Excellent video. Agreed with all points made. Specifically your point about what the actual goal is for outing the identities of anonymous social media personalities. It's a question I've always had and never found a great answer for. What is the specific ultimate goal to achieve with divulging that identity? Your speculation that it could be ultimately about gauging the physical attractiveness of said identity makes a *lot* of sense. It's absurd yet so utterly human.
In the case of Deuxmoi, I'm not sympathetic to their identities (likely) being revealed. It could be that I"m indifferent to the culture they cover, and if so that's a reflection on my own callousness.
It could be that I feel in some way that a justice has been served. That some kind of egalitarian balance is found if Deuxmoi is unable to report on the people they do without people knowing who they are outside of the Deuxmoi account. Taking a step back and considering that, it's not very satisfying. But for me, neither is the content Deuxmoi posts to begin with. So ymmv as regards to your own feelings of justification.
Sorry for the long-winded post. The subject of anonymity of a creator has always interested me greatly. In electronic music, this used to be extremely important for several popular/influential producers. In fact, I'd *love* to hear your take on the artist Burial and their own identity being outed, if you're ever inclined. I think you'd find some great content there...
lol i remember when people on twitter were posting who is assumed to be corpse husband, and everyone was throwing a fit because he's not as hot as they thought he was, because his avatar is of a tall skinny dude and the guy they were seeing was short and fat
I mean, his avatar also has horns... what were they expecting?
In general I'd say that people deserve to keep whatever parts of their identities they want to keep private, private. But in my opinion you lose that right when you publicly deny that right to others.
It's awful but I mean it's the same as star magazine and other tabloids like that. I remember how crazy they were before the internet. Crazy stories that were obviously fake but they sold.
I do think everyone has a right to anonymity on the internet. That said, my sympathy for that anonymity being stripped away is much reduced when the position was abused to continuously attack others with baseless rumours. There has to be some kind of repercussion for that, otherwise what dissuades anyone from formulating fake, viscous allegations about someone they take issue with?
I think creators who do not make their business other people's business. I e artists or writers or musicians do deserve anonymity, if they want it ,especially if they do not use their public persona for political movements.
But once your business is other people's business you cannot be mad when your personal business becomes other people's business.
Much like when Wendy Williams was going through it and people were airing her laundry out, she could not be angry about that. she could only sit through it because her business is celebrity gossip and so as a celebrity she can't be mad that other people are getting a bag off of her misfortune, when it's The type of content she built her fortune off of.
If you are willing to post uncooberated and possibly fictitious statements about people and make money off of that you don't deserve anonymity, privacy but not anonymity.
When you are actively targeting or impacting others then no, I do not believe you have the right to anonymity because its very well established that you have a reasonable right to 'face your accuser'. Im not arguing that the 6th amendment applies specifically to this case, but like the 1st there is reasoning behind it that is morally applicable far outside its legislative bounds. I dont want to be too reductive, there are of course plenty of more complex exceptions, but generally you dont get to attack someone while also leaving them at a fundamental disadvantage in any response, by cloaking all the details of who you are, your motives, etc, unless that reveal puts you in imminent danger.
Anonymous creators who are just streaming for light entertainment, making music, etc maintain a right to anonymity as the extent of their impact ends when you click the close button on your browser. For anonymous commentators who are discussing things in the abstract, sports events, political policy, again they maintain a right to anonymity, but when you start having a direct and targeted effect on individuals, then your anonymity, barring some exceptional circumstances, is forfeit.
Posting gossip anonymously is completely deceptive and self serving.
on the topic of lolcow: did you ever hear about the gossio gate discord server? its a server with hundreds of different text channels all dedicated to an influencer/influencer group. all the people do there is talk badly about them and they even dox people there. (for example they found out who brook miccios boyfriend is, released pics of him (from an event) and therefore she made it public herself after this happened)
I used to be a member there and a lot of people there are toxic. They shut me and people I knew out of there. Loads of hypocrisy. The original guy who owned the OG gossip gate site prior to the girlie mods taking it over later was also an abuser and they tried to distance themselves from it but ironically lots of nasty people themselves still lurk/post there
If you do the wells entertainment channel for the intro you can put all the intro glasses on instead of taking them off
I think privacy and anonymity is something everyone should be entitled to, should they want it. I dont believe, barring certain crimes, there is any reason that right should be taken away, regardless of how immoral or hypocritical you think their actions are. I just dont think its a right you should be able to revoke because of xyz. My moral system doesnt work that way.
Thought this was about the subreddit of the same name
Same lmao, that’s the only reason I’ve ever heard of Deuxmoi, I didn’t even know they existed before the sub and only found out what they actually did from this video. All I knew was that they’re sub was full of AH supporters during the trial lol
@@dvargas3553 that place is fucking nuts
I'm also an Amanda with the initials AMG and the same age w the same exact birthday 😭
Every comment is an entire essay 😭
I value anonymity, both online and IRL. I don't like that my neighbours know what I look like, let alone my name.
Yes, public figures should have the right to anonymity. Provided, of course, that their content is relatively innocuous. If they’re dragging people or getting political, all bets are off.
I love you misses swell
This whole time i thought everyone was saying Jim Wah not DeuxMoi 😭
I feel like anonymity online needs to disappear in general, people are so comfortable saying foul things online and there never being any blowback. Which I guess is funny since I’m using an anime picture and a fake name. I don’t know.
The whole Creepshow situation was so wild.
In general I would say there's certain situations where people are entitled to anonymity, but in the case of deuxmoi I don't think she is because it feels incredibly hypocritical.
This entire thing feels to me like someone just really wanted to be Gossip Girl and didn't realize that people aren't that dumb in real life to not be able to find her out if they really put in the time and effort, and also that she wouldn't have a team of writers giving her plot armour to make sure she would never be found out.
The question of where privacy begins and ends is never an easy one. I'll agree that anonymity just isn't feasible past a certain point. It simply becomes too hard to maintain, and it's only going to get more difficult the deeper we get into the digital age.
Whether you want to become a masked TH-camr or not, I will fully support any efforts you might make to becoming the luchador exercise enthusiast, Swole Entertainment.
So where does Banksy fit in all this?
I don't understand what you mean by "entitled" in this context. Asking if people are "entitled to anonymity" doesn't make sense to me. It seems like the real question is whether the audience is entitled to know their identity, which I don't think they are. That being said, I don't think somebody trying to put the pieces together is doing something wrong. If you can figure out who a creator is using the information they've provided over the years, I don't think it's doxxing to share your findings or theories. Like the example you gave of you starting a new anonymous channel and it being linked to your google ad account; if a fan noticed that and said "hey, looks like this channel is also run by Amanda," that doesn't feel like a breach of your rights to me. Also, in case anybody is wondering, Banksy's real name is Robert Del Naja and he wrote the theme song to House MD (not a joke)
Deuxmoi's identity was revealed 👀👀👀
Yes Amanda, it's not even a question. Everyone absolutely has the right to anonymity. Even this specific 2moi creator has the right to anonymity, regardless of her hypocrisy and garbage-tier content.
anonymity and privacy are provided in the utopia ecosystem.
Still waiting for Wells Entertainment
I see content creation as posting free content without the obligation to show oneself. It's called TH-cam, not Facetube. :->
I think it depends. As a content creator myself who uses a "secret identity," there's a quiet kind of unspoken agreement within the community I'm a part of where doxxing is just not okay under any circumstances and there are many reasons people can relate to and understand that agreement. Things like being self-conscious, social anxiety, body image, mental health concerns obviously. Things like that have formed a protective barrier of sorts and allows this interesting environment where we all collectively agree that everyone in that space (whether they're a public creator or not) to look out for, and protect eachother's right to anonymity because we're also protecting our own by reinforcing those guidelines. Kind of like if one person is doxxed, the flood gates will open and no one wants that.
As for DeuxMoi's situation... idk I think that paints a very interesting situation where you can blame DeuxMoi for the wrongdoing of exposing these celebrities but also is it really just them or are we going to say the quiet part out loud and also blame the submitters and people who followed and commented and participated? Granted, my first intro to DeuxMoi is this video so I don't know much about them lol but it sounds a like a bit of scapegoating, a lot of public personal responsibility that ends up revealing how nosy people can be when given the platform to be anonymous, and maybe the idea that we all secretly want to be in on the hollywood secrets but don't think about what needs to happen in order for accounts like DeuxMoi to have blown up and gained attention aka celebrities' anonymity is now at the hands of the public. The idea that "We put them there, so now we want a part of the mystical pie and so we cut it out from them."
I have no idea who this person is, but I watched the whole video. I clicked on it thinking it would be a topical discourse on the subject of anonymity v privacy when it comes to using the internet. E.g. Social media allows you to be “anonymous” but keeps track of everything you say and do, your searches, your contacts, your location, etc, and the wrong people could easily get all of that information. Would still be an interesting topic to cover, I think.
I would not say do you have the right rather do you have the expectations pf being anonymous on the internet cuz what you want is kind if irrelevant the internet is the internet and it will do whatever it wants
ready to subscribe to wells entertainment 😌
I actually think this is a huge factor in the conversation of whether or not the first amendment should apply to social media.
We hear a lot about the fact that social media sites are owned by private companies, who have every legal right to censor whoever they want, seeing as they're not government entities. Folks will argue that social media is the new equivalent of the town square, and I see what they're saying, but a fundamental difference is that you can't be anonymous when you go downtown to protest. You are more accountable for what you say in a true town square. Saying that anonymous accounts online deserve the right to send death threats, troll people, and otherwise say things they would NEVER say in person makes it pretty incomparable, imo.
If people had to verify their identities to participate on a given platform, I think it would be fair to expect more freedom of speech. As for whether we deserve anonymity at all..... I think we do. But there need to be checks and balances so that people don't abuse that right.
tell us more about why you are a Julia Fox fan! ( no judgement or anything, just genuinely curious!!!)
Spotting celebrities seems wierd. Like, if they're not working and it doesn't seem OK to say hi, why would you take photos and post it? Like it's common sense between what people choose to reveal publicly and what they choose to keep private.
Excited to watch. ✌🏻☮️
There's a definite difference between Privacy and Anonymity.
I see so many people that don't understand that specificity in language is the beauty of it... People these days only have a general idea of a word's definition and they use it very wrong ways.
The worst part, they are also just making up definitions to keep from learning a new word.🤦🏻♀️
It's one of the many mental epidemics that are crushing my soul.
It’s very gossip girl.
wait. we have the SAME initials omfg
💙