The problem is that she didn't lead, she was just an ideal that none of them could realistically live up to. Her people struggled to meet her expectations until they died, conflicted and unfulfilled, and in the end, she was the only one left on that path. In contrast, Rider showed his men that it was okay to be human, and so they were able to live their lives to the fullest, dying without regret when their time came.
Yeah, if Saber was Waver's master, she would've just done everything for him. He never would've changed or learned anything. He would've ended the story as he began. But Rider pretty much mentored Waver. Rider inspired Waver and made him grow to the point where he was willing to offer his life for him as a follower out of his own free will - not for the sake of duty, but for self-fulfilment. The biggest problem with Saber I think is that she values self-sacrifice for the sake of itself, and thinks everyone should. But if everyone sacrifices themselves for others then everyone will die. Rider values self-fulfilment. If everyone fulfils themselves, then everyone will be happy. Rider chased his own fulfilment and inspires those around him to follow suit. I think the issue is more nuanced than that though because it's not like fulfilment comes from nowhere. As Rider said, he was a tyrant. If everyone sacrifices others for their own fulfilment, like Iskander did on his conquests, then everyone will die. However, whilst I've not watched much past Fate Zero I imagine that Waver would be the perfect middle-ground between the two. I don't see Waver killing millions of people in a worldwide conquest, but I also don't see him rejecting Rider to the point that he'd end up becoming Saber. Or maybe Shirou ends up being that middle-ground? Idk, I've not watched Fate Stay Night UBW or Heaven's Feel.
>be me >random Macedonian soldier >miraculously survived all the battles >all my friends are dead >been a decade since I've seen my wife and kids >idiot king wants to go even further east into a place called India. >throws a hissy fit when the entire army says they've had enough >he dies from too much drink >thank god it's over >idiot didn't appoint an heir >his generals are playing king of the hill with all the lands we've conquered. >what the fuck did I fight for Best king ever. 10/10.
@@insertname485 Saber doesn't necessarily expect others to value self sacrifice. Just the King and the few that will help the many. Her real issue is her wish itself. She regrets her rule as King when she should be proud of it like Iskandar is
I've been looking forward to your reaction to this one in particular! Love this treatise on leadership. - Saber, King Arthur, is an ideal, a Saint; it's interesting that you bring up Jesus, because while we praise His life, it's a really hard sell to get someone to agree to emulate that kind of self-sacrificial, martyred life. Saber attempted the same with chivalry. They each served and set themselves below their followers. - Archer, Gilgamesh, is a Tyrant, one who sets himself *above* his followers. He does not serve, he is served. In a very different way from Saber, his image demands perfection. - Rider, Iskandar, is a true King, a human with flaws and ambitions who proves that great things are attainable by regular people with drive, and thus he inspires and elevates his followers. In serving himself AND his followers, uniting their purposes, they achieve a bond that makes the sum greater than its parts. Reminds me of meme of the leader who pulls at the front of the rope rather than the boss who whips from behind. Saber and Archer must be perfect. Archer and Rider lead and rule. Saber and Rider do it all for a greater good. I think it's a really cool Venn diagram and I love revisiting it for a little more insight every time.
“A true king” What definition are you subscribing to? Someone who makes the rules but does not follow them himself, essentially being above the law. Someone who values greed over prosperity. Someone who sees the crown as pretty much a blank cheque but none of the burden. He wants to have his cake and eat it too but history has shown that it never ends well for these types of Monarchs. Whilst I find Saber’s ideology extremely naive, at least she has the concepts down. And don't get me wrong, that man is the very definition of an Alpha Chad and would make a great Viking leader but a “true King” he is not, there’s no such thing. Unless you mean a true King should be a Tyrant, in which case to each their own i guess.
@@BhBc8f8 tbf being a "king" is a Tyrant on it own already, kings are above the law, you get killed if you don't obey them. It's more about "Leading with no regret" thing... Notice arthur never revealed her true intention to her followers except 1 knight, everyone saw her as a saint not really a king. Every knight was doing whatever they wanted, so round table was collapsed from within. Noticed her wish was reversed the history, which is not very king-like thing or even a leader-like. A king need to lead the subject and deal with the consequences, which arthur wasn't. That's why iskandar refused her title as a king, Gil probably agreed to this because he did the same thing like Iskandar.
Gilgamesh also does it for the greater good His rule is the hardest to explain because his legend is about growth of a person so is rule changed as he grew up whereas saber and rider were consistent in there rule Gilgamesh changed as he matured and learnt the true meaning of being human
@@hoangdung7494 Gilgamesh and artoria had similar ruling methods at first, both thought the best way to rule was to bear the burden of the world by themselves However doing this would eventually lead to self destruction Which is why artorias rule fell apart Gilgamesh was saved however by enkidu and learned to share the burden of the world with those you call friends He would later learn to share the burden with your people as well but thats further down the line
I've tried most of the non-Ufotable Fates anime adaptions, not only is Grand Order part of a convoluted mobile game that just makes it a mess of world building and storytelling, but sadly it's nowhere near the quality of Zero/UBW/Heaven's Feel. Imho Apocrypha, Extra, Grand Order...no other Fate animation so far has reached those peaks.
@@demetrius8184 basically everything written by Nasu plus some pseudo-singularities and Lostbelts. And some events I guess, but they are mostly just for fun.
@@Facelessify1 i do agree that no animation has reached the level of greatness that Ufotable has but as far as just story is concerned fgos story is great and way better than most animes its probably the best after or debatebly on the same level as fsn/fz/fe and honestly depending on what people like some might prefer fgo a lot more than other fates as its not as hard a story to get into its actually a lot more straightforward than normal holy grail wars settings as its just "go to past fix shit save world" unfortunately first 4 arcs are meh with 5th being good and everything after that is on a scale of great to amazing so its really hard to adapt though honestly Babylonia was a spectical till tiamat showed it wasn't perfect but it was great
You do know Archer's name, the Servant's don't; gets confusing sometimes on who knows what in this kinda sotry. One thing I feel I gotta clear up (and you've probably already guessed with Caster) is that Heroic Spirits don't necessarily need to be heroic, sometimes they're more of an anti-hero who serves as a cautionary tale like say a war hero who became a serial killer.
I think legendary figures is a better description. They are people who did such "amazing"(i use this in the loosest sense possible) things that everyone knows about them. Just look at Grand Order one of the "heros" in that is Jack the Ripper who is about as far from being a hero as you can get. To be fair he/she/it/whatever the fuck Jack the Ripper is i cant remember(isnt Jack like the spirits of dead children or something creepy like that or am i thinking of something else) is one of the only heroic spirits who from what i can remember is horrible through and through. Honestly just the assassin class in general is full of horrible people now that i think of it though a decent amount of them have understandable reasons for it(though not always good). One of the only ones i can think of who was a good person(at least deep down) is Emiya but even then he isnt the one from Fate/Zero so he might not have been a good person at heart. To be fair the only assassins i can think of are the Hasan, Jack, Jekyll/Hyde, Emiya, and the Phantom of the Opera(i think he is one though he does seem a bit random so maybe im wrong).
Meanwhile in Chaldea, two Servants looking at the comment sections of various F/Z ep11 reactions videos. Gil: Hahaha, these Mongrel constantly debating who is the best King Ozy: Hahaha, yeah, it should be obvious to everyone who is the best King, right? Gil: Ofcourse, such an obvious answer doesn't even need to be said, it should be understood implicitly! Ozy: Too true, too true. *both continue to laugh for an hour while thinking to themselves "it's obviously me!"*
One thing about their conversation that is often ignored or glossed over is the fact that Saber and Rider where Kings under very different situations, one was an expansionist King who went around taking over other nations to add to his own, the other was a defending King whose kingdom was often under attack by foreign invaders. The reason Rider does so well in the "debate" is largely due to how differently they view the fall of their respective kingdoms as he just brushes it off while she takes it as her personal failure.
Yh I always found there views on Artorias fall very interesting Saber - blames herself Hence why she doesn't defend herself, I see a lot of people complain saying saber just let herself take the blows from rider but if shes regretful why would she try to justify her actions Rider - blames saber and her ideals Gilgamesh/Archer - blames her people
@@SDHVFS "I see a lot of people complain saying saber just let herself take the blows from rider" because this Saber is different from og Saber. This novel is from another author and he completely misunderstood Saber's cahracter. He made her more naive and idealistic, you know, that generic "white knight" archetype. While original Saber (FSN) was more pragmatic, coldhearted and even ruthless at times, she was more like Kiritsugu. But apparently the author wanted to create a conflict between Saber and Kiritsugu (which actually contradicts with info we get from FSN where she literally says she has never spoken with Kiritsugu) and changed her character.
@@siegmeyerofcatarina9744 Of course saber is different from stay night saber Its called character development There is no point in saber being the same in Zero then stay night otherwise it means she hasn't learnt anything Saber thought she was at fault but she still wanted to uphold her ideals it wasn't until she saw lancelot that she truly wanted the grail more than anything even if it meant putting aside her ideals We literally see her at the end of Zero crying and apologizing to everyone saying she will get the grail NO MATTER WHAT So her character changed from zero to stay night thats all It changed from I want the grail to I will get the grail no matter what it takes Yh but Zero contradicts stay night but tbf stay night contradicts stay night as well Whenever it comes to stuff that happened ten years ago stay night literally makes zero sense So gilgamesh fought saber in a sea of fire Yet Saber destroyed the grail and spilt it on top of gilgamesh But it was spilling the grail that caused the fire This is what happened in the fate route it makes no sense Did saber destroy and spill the grail on Gilgamesh, he climbed out of it and they start fighting? and saber disappears sometime mid fight even tho she says kiritsugu is the reason she couldn't finish he fight with archer because he ordered her to destroy the grail Stay night contradicts itself for the events of Zero lol
@@SDHVFS stay night doesn't contradict itself, it's Zero contradicts FSN. I think you know that Nasu himself said that FZ is in a different timeline from FSN. And your point about "character development from FZ to FSN" makes no sense because we know what kind of king she was from FSN (we saw her flashbacks), plus Garden of Avalon novel exists, and even goddamn Hollow Ataraxia gives us some info about her past. So if you want to blame someone, blame Urobuchi. He literally says in one of the interviews that he doesn't like "noble" and "chivalrous" characters. And he wasn't lying, just look at Lancer and Saber in FZ. About the Grail mud, you seems to forgetting Fate and UBW routes where there is that mud everywhere before the Grail is destroyed. You don't need the destroyed Grail to get the mud. And why so many spaces?
Arturia lived for her people. Although it's hard for normal people like rider to understand the kind of other worldly saint hood this requires it undeniably created a stage in British history that changed the course of humanity in the type moon world. There is no ideal that is not worth pursuing if it's something done to the best of your ability.
The problem is while both artoria and iskandar's ideals were wrong and right in their own ways one lead to the kind and his people's regret while the others lived a fulfilling life they don't regret
@@mohamedelhediissa289 Thats kind of the point. Arturia shouldent regret her life because she has nothing to apologize for since she did the best she could. Which is what she had to learn in her character arc in fate stay night visual novel. All the things she goes through in this show including this episode is mere set up for that. This is a prequel as you know
@@mohamedelhediissa289 they really are at both ends of the spectrum. Iskandar was the incarnation of his people's desire, hunger, pride, etc. He lived life to tbe fullest so that his people would and they did, they followed him till the end to the point they became servant. Artoria is more like jesus. She took the burden of all her people on herself and became the front wall of her kingdom. Only thing is that she regrets it because britain falls at the end. Britain was meant to fall, even if she wasnt there. She walked the path of the salvation of his people alone only to regret it at the end
Iskandar is the best character in the entire fate franchiae & I will die on that hill. I would LOVE a spin-off of Iskandar & his adventures when he was king.
There are some great episodes in this show. But this is hands down one of my favorites. Not just because of Iskander's Noble Phantasm. But, the dialogue, the setting, all of it just works so well. Also Gilgamesh has one of the best laughs I've ever heard!
This was one of the first episodes that made me realize how fucked up Sabers story is(besides the fact shes King Arthur) the final scene of her in this show shows it best though which isnt as spoilery as you would think because its actually a flashback to when she died at the Battle of Camlam so its hundreds of years before the show. Im still going to skip a few lines because it still is the end of the show. Pretty much its her dying moments she is one of the only people left alive and because of some interesting circumstances she actually remembers being summoned and she is thinking about her life and stuff. One of the things she thinks about is what Iskander said to her about how she failed her people and she also thinks of the death of Sir Lancelot(bit of backstory in case you dont know the legend, Lancelot fell in love with Arthurs wife, Queen Guinevere, and they had an affair King Arthur found out and at least in the Fate series Arthur eventualy had to fight and kill Lancelot. The biggest difference between the legend and Fate is Saber wasnt actually in love with her wife she married her because a king needs a queen(though she did care about and trust her completely Guinevere was one of the only people that knew she was a woman the others being the other knights and Merlin) so she was actually fine with and i think even encouraged Lancelots relationship with her but once the public found out she had no choice but to punish them. Also possibly Lancelots death i dont remember how he dies in the legends.) and she ends up dieing thinking she failed everyone and didnt deserve to be king. What makes it worse is while this is happening it keeps cutting to Lancelots death and what he was trying to say to her as he died but she didnt hear it. Pretty much he said "you were the best king to ever live and all of the Knights of the Round Table felt the same way." In other words Saber died thinking she failed her closest friends(The Knights of the Round Table) and they hated her for it and she shouldnt have been king but in reality none of them including Sir Lancelot who she killed felt that way. FUCK. Oh and something that makes the scene even more fun the corpse she is kneeling on is Mordred...her daughter...who she just killed...Mordred is also the person that landed the killing blow on her.
In excavations of the seige of Tyre Archeologists kept turning up lead slingstones with "May this hit you in the balls" carved into them in greek. This anime has captured that energy perfectly in Iskander, my only regret is that the slingers and cavary never got a spotlight in his army.
Don't let Rider and Gil talk down to Saber. They might be right in some aspects, but when they dived into the Camelot story you realize Saber was literally the only person holding the entire world together. The infamous "you don't understand people" quote was actually walked back by the person who originally said it when he realized the whole situation after the matter.
I JUST learned this news and wanted to let you guys know! From what I been seeing Black Clover anime will end March 30th..I'm assuming it's because of how close and how fast it's catching up to the manga. So what I'm suspecting will happen is that they are gonna end the anime for a bit so the manga has time to get a good distance ahead before starting the show back up, kinda like Dragonball Super. I just wanted to let you guys know before I forget, the manga is crazy good right now so I'm curious where the anime will cut off at.
Pretty much the basis of any reasonable argument....what both of them are saying makes sense and what both of them are saying also has major flaws and am not on any of their sides here ....before they were kings...they were people ....serve yourself first ....be a saint later when your fulfilled... but regardless of what path they walked their kingdoms ended up in the dust So if you ask me Just wing it
@@homielander5924 well Gilgamesh wasn't a good person in life. What's you point then? Hassan is actually more loyal and "normal" person compared to Gil.
Lmao Jesus didn't wear hobo clothes, the fact is he wore expensive or well made garments that even the Roman soliders gamble for, Jesus was also Stern and educated example when whip the people for using the HOUSE OF GOD as a market place so he had qualities of Riders just different views to how people should be. I am very glad u guys are enjoying the show, its one of my favorite animes.
@@GManJR75 the Gilgamesh we met in Fate/Zero was him before he met Enkidu. Gil at this point was a tyrant asshole Gil in FGO was after Enkidu's death and after his journey to find the immortal herbs. Gil at this point finally got his development and grow up
@@cuongquoc5877 Yeah I know that. But, before Fate Grand Order Babylonia I just thought Gilgamesh was always like he was in this and Fate/Stay Night. Seeing him as a just, strong, and somewhat kind ruler felt off at first. But the more I watched and learned about him and Enkidu. I changed my mind about him as a whole. Caster Gilgamesh is what made me see him in a different light.
The banquet of kings is by far my favorite scene in all of the Fate franchise. The clash of ideologies is EVERYTHING. What's most interesting about the dialogue is that none of them is 100% correct. Saber is naive and overly idealistic. She babied her subjects and as a result the country crumbled without her. Rider is a bloodthirsty tyrant who prioritized glory over the prosperity of his people. And Gilgamesh...is Gilgamesh. In my opinion, a split between saber and riders mentality with a tiny bit of Gilgamesh’s charisma is correct.
Saber's country didn't crumble because of her. Camelot was doomed to crumble because it's the end of the Age of Gods. In fsct Saber postponed it, even Marlin didn't see it with his Clairvoyance. She objectively the best king out of all three of them, though to be honest you can barely call Alex a king... I assume you haven't read any of the Fate novels if you call Saber naive.
@@siegmeyerofcatarina9744 Ok number 1 you clearly don't understand the point of zero Its the fact that its saber fault camelot fell ITS THAT SHE BLAMES HERSELF FOR IT whether its her fault or not is irrelevant the whole story is she blames herself Hence shirou saying its not your fault because it wasn't her fault she just didn't realise. Camelots fall had nothing to do with the end of the age of gods (unless you can provide a valid source) Camelots fall was due to a large number of factors -Saber was only partly at fault, to say its all her fault is wrong to say she is devoid of fault is nothing but a saber fanboy who ignores the story. -Her people (the knights of the round table) were also at fault as stated by Gilgamesh (I will go in more detail if you ask) -Lancelot affair as well was a mess -There also the scheming of morgan le fray, stealing avalon the mordred stuff -As well as merlin getting trapped in Avalon dissatisfied Had any one of these been changed saber would likely have survived In short it was a combination of everyone being idiots and putting a massive burden on saber that Gil said no human would be able to bare, and saber carrying this burden alone is what led to camelots destruction not some nonsense of destiny or the end of the age of gods
@@SDHVFS at this point I'm not sure if you are serious or not. What does all that have to do with the fact that Saber from FZ and Saber from FSN are two different charcters and it has nothing to do with "character development". It's just a convenient excusem which has nothing to do woth reality (mostly comes from anime onlys, but from your words I can guess that you've read at least FSN and FZ, I still suggest you to read Garden of Avalon (the novel) and even play FGO game, it tells quite a lot about Camelot actually).
@@siegmeyerofcatarina9744 I have seen most fates but have yet to read garden of avalon and I am nearly on the camelot arc in FGO Right now I am basing my knowledge of Stay night Zero Partly extra CCC and apocypha Since most others don't talk about her reign Can you summarize what kind of king saber was during garden of avalon BTW I wasn't talking about the FSN and character stuff I was replying to another point you were making that came on my notifications
This is the reason why fate zero is so goddamn great, a fucking masterpiece. I only bothered to watch stay night cus it was a sequel but it doesnt even compare zero is too good.
you wont get much context till / fate apocapha / a side story with aurthers kid in the cast which brings a better view of what happened /p.s never seen the games //
@@vicount3944 it was ironic that despite Archer Gil is the most asshole of them all. His rule was the most successful and he never had a tragic end in his life time (except for losing Enkidu ofc) His rule last for decades until he died and his descendants continued his legacy.
@@cuongquoc5877 because he didn't have to deal with problems Artoria had. The Age of Gods is near its end, there is nothing you can do really, yet Artoria postponed it. Not sure if Gil could've done it better.
I love love looooooveeee it has one of the best philosophical debates on how to be a true leader probably one of my favorite lines in all of media, “I said this drink is as your blood if you insist on spilling it”🔥, and shows that rider is as strong as Gilgamesh to the point where Gil would have to go EAll out to defEAt him and you get to look forward to what that will look likEA it’s gonna be grEAt
Yes, because Caster knew shit about Saber in order to come to that conclusion, lol. Nah dude, it's just a reference to how back in 2004 the newest fans thought Saber would be Joan of Arc. Gilles is just crazy. And no, Saber is a king. She earned that title. King is not something that can be defined by people like Alexander. There have been great kings and shit kings, but kings nonetheless. If we take something like what Beowulf says in Fate/Grand Order: "Part of being king is preparing for what happens when you're gone" then Alex wouldn't be a king either.
The problem is that she didn't lead, she was just an ideal that none of them could realistically live up to. Her people struggled to meet her expectations until they died, conflicted and unfulfilled, and in the end, she was the only one left on that path. In contrast, Rider showed his men that it was okay to be human, and so they were able to live their lives to the fullest, dying without regret when their time came.
Yeah, if Saber was Waver's master, she would've just done everything for him. He never would've changed or learned anything. He would've ended the story as he began. But Rider pretty much mentored Waver. Rider inspired Waver and made him grow to the point where he was willing to offer his life for him as a follower out of his own free will - not for the sake of duty, but for self-fulfilment.
The biggest problem with Saber I think is that she values self-sacrifice for the sake of itself, and thinks everyone should. But if everyone sacrifices themselves for others then everyone will die. Rider values self-fulfilment. If everyone fulfils themselves, then everyone will be happy. Rider chased his own fulfilment and inspires those around him to follow suit.
I think the issue is more nuanced than that though because it's not like fulfilment comes from nowhere. As Rider said, he was a tyrant. If everyone sacrifices others for their own fulfilment, like Iskander did on his conquests, then everyone will die. However, whilst I've not watched much past Fate Zero I imagine that Waver would be the perfect middle-ground between the two. I don't see Waver killing millions of people in a worldwide conquest, but I also don't see him rejecting Rider to the point that he'd end up becoming Saber. Or maybe Shirou ends up being that middle-ground? Idk, I've not watched Fate Stay Night UBW or Heaven's Feel.
>be me
>random Macedonian soldier
>miraculously survived all the battles
>all my friends are dead
>been a decade since I've seen my wife and kids
>idiot king wants to go even further east into a place called India.
>throws a hissy fit when the entire army says they've had enough
>he dies from too much drink
>thank god it's over
>idiot didn't appoint an heir
>his generals are playing king of the hill with all the lands we've conquered.
>what the fuck did I fight for
Best king ever. 10/10.
@@insertname485 yeh that's good example putting wavers character development 🗿🗿🗿
@@insertname485 Saber doesn't necessarily expect others to value self sacrifice. Just the King and the few that will help the many. Her real issue is her wish itself. She regrets her rule as King when she should be proud of it like Iskandar is
I finished lord el melloi a few days ago and u can really see the impact rider had on waver
I've been looking forward to your reaction to this one in particular! Love this treatise on leadership.
- Saber, King Arthur, is an ideal, a Saint; it's interesting that you bring up Jesus, because while we praise His life, it's a really hard sell to get someone to agree to emulate that kind of self-sacrificial, martyred life. Saber attempted the same with chivalry. They each served and set themselves below their followers.
- Archer, Gilgamesh, is a Tyrant, one who sets himself *above* his followers. He does not serve, he is served. In a very different way from Saber, his image demands perfection.
- Rider, Iskandar, is a true King, a human with flaws and ambitions who proves that great things are attainable by regular people with drive, and thus he inspires and elevates his followers. In serving himself AND his followers, uniting their purposes, they achieve a bond that makes the sum greater than its parts. Reminds me of meme of the leader who pulls at the front of the rope rather than the boss who whips from behind.
Saber and Archer must be perfect. Archer and Rider lead and rule. Saber and Rider do it all for a greater good. I think it's a really cool Venn diagram and I love revisiting it for a little more insight every time.
Probably deserves a double like!
“A true king” What definition are you subscribing to? Someone who makes the rules but does not follow them himself, essentially being above the law. Someone who values greed over prosperity. Someone who sees the crown as pretty much a blank cheque but none of the burden. He wants to have his cake and eat it too but history has shown that it never ends well for these types of Monarchs. Whilst I find Saber’s ideology extremely naive, at least she has the concepts down. And don't get me wrong, that man is the very definition of an Alpha Chad and would make a great Viking leader but a “true King” he is not, there’s no such thing. Unless you mean a true King should be a Tyrant, in which case to each their own i guess.
@@BhBc8f8 tbf being a "king" is a Tyrant on it own already, kings are above the law, you get killed if you don't obey them. It's more about "Leading with no regret" thing... Notice arthur never revealed her true intention to her followers except 1 knight, everyone saw her as a saint not really a king. Every knight was doing whatever they wanted, so round table was collapsed from within. Noticed her wish was reversed the history, which is not very king-like thing or even a leader-like. A king need to lead the subject and deal with the consequences, which arthur wasn't. That's why iskandar refused her title as a king, Gil probably agreed to this because he did the same thing like Iskandar.
Gilgamesh also does it for the greater good
His rule is the hardest to explain because his legend is about growth of a person so is rule changed as he grew up
whereas saber and rider were consistent in there rule Gilgamesh changed as he matured and learnt the true meaning of being human
@@hoangdung7494 Gilgamesh and artoria had similar ruling methods at first, both thought the best way to rule was to bear the burden of the world by themselves
However doing this would eventually lead to self destruction
Which is why artorias rule fell apart
Gilgamesh was saved however by enkidu and learned to share the burden of the world with those you call friends
He would later learn to share the burden with your people as well but thats further down the line
Alexandar and Gilgamesh best characters in zero
Assassin: We outnumber you
Iskander: NO U
how can you be a water girl... if you're so *thirsty*?
for my this conversation between three kings , and knowing about them more ..was one of the best things in this show ...as always great reaction ....
One of the best episodes in the Fate series
@@homielander5924 not in a world where Babylonia episode 20 exists
@@TheRealFalkerry which one? is that because fate apocrypha I couldnt get into that
@@tophbeifong2454 it's Fate Grand Order Babylonia Demonic front assault but actually Apocrypha is pretty good
The tiamat vs quetzalcoatl is the best episode in the fate series for me followed by king gilgamesh in babylonia using his NP
You guys really comparing hype with one of the most well written and directed episode 🤦
I've become jaded with this episode over the years. I still like it but the philosophy and debate is one sided. Iskandar hard carries it
If your looking for historical settings,fate grand order is what you looking for
I've tried most of the non-Ufotable Fates anime adaptions, not only is Grand Order part of a convoluted mobile game that just makes it a mess of world building and storytelling, but sadly it's nowhere near the quality of Zero/UBW/Heaven's Feel. Imho Apocrypha, Extra, Grand Order...no other Fate animation so far has reached those peaks.
@@Facelessify1 yeah sadly, only good stories are camelot and babylonia. The lostbelts are good too.
@@demetrius8184 basically everything written by Nasu plus some pseudo-singularities and Lostbelts. And some events I guess, but they are mostly just for fun.
@@Facelessify1 i do agree that no animation has reached the level of greatness that Ufotable has but as far as just story is concerned fgos story is great and way better than most animes its probably the best after or debatebly on the same level as fsn/fz/fe and honestly depending on what people like some might prefer fgo a lot more than other fates as its not as hard a story to get into its actually a lot more straightforward than normal holy grail wars settings as its just "go to past fix shit save world" unfortunately first 4 arcs are meh with 5th being good and everything after that is on a scale of great to amazing so its really hard to adapt though honestly Babylonia was a spectical till tiamat showed it wasn't perfect but it was great
You do know Archer's name, the Servant's don't; gets confusing sometimes on who knows what in this kinda sotry. One thing I feel I gotta clear up (and you've probably already guessed with Caster) is that Heroic Spirits don't necessarily need to be heroic, sometimes they're more of an anti-hero who serves as a cautionary tale like say a war hero who became a serial killer.
Anyone who left a mark on history
@@mohamedelhediissa289 well, not always...
I think legendary figures is a better description. They are people who did such "amazing"(i use this in the loosest sense possible) things that everyone knows about them. Just look at Grand Order one of the "heros" in that is Jack the Ripper who is about as far from being a hero as you can get. To be fair he/she/it/whatever the fuck Jack the Ripper is i cant remember(isnt Jack like the spirits of dead children or something creepy like that or am i thinking of something else) is one of the only heroic spirits who from what i can remember is horrible through and through. Honestly just the assassin class in general is full of horrible people now that i think of it though a decent amount of them have understandable reasons for it(though not always good). One of the only ones i can think of who was a good person(at least deep down) is Emiya but even then he isnt the one from Fate/Zero so he might not have been a good person at heart. To be fair the only assassins i can think of are the Hasan, Jack, Jekyll/Hyde, Emiya, and the Phantom of the Opera(i think he is one though he does seem a bit random so maybe im wrong).
Meanwhile in Fate/Strange Fake after Richard the Lionheart sees the whole banquet scene:
"Y'all are full of shit, Arthur is the best!"
Meanwhile in Chaldea, two Servants looking at the comment sections of various F/Z ep11 reactions videos.
Gil: Hahaha, these Mongrel constantly debating who is the best King
Ozy: Hahaha, yeah, it should be obvious to everyone who is the best King, right?
Gil: Ofcourse, such an obvious answer doesn't even need to be said, it should be understood implicitly!
Ozy: Too true, too true.
*both continue to laugh for an hour while thinking to themselves "it's obviously me!"*
One thing about their conversation that is often ignored or glossed over is the fact that Saber and Rider where Kings under very different situations, one was an expansionist King who went around taking over other nations to add to his own, the other was a defending King whose kingdom was often under attack by foreign invaders. The reason Rider does so well in the "debate" is largely due to how differently they view the fall of their respective kingdoms as he just brushes it off while she takes it as her personal failure.
True, they were both great kings in their own way, but if i had to pick one to serve it would definitely be Artoria
Yh I always found there views on Artorias fall very interesting
Saber - blames herself
Hence why she doesn't defend herself, I see a lot of people complain saying saber just let herself take the blows from rider
but if shes regretful why would she try to justify her actions
Rider - blames saber and her ideals
Gilgamesh/Archer - blames her people
@@SDHVFS "I see a lot of people complain saying saber just let herself take the blows from rider" because this Saber is different from og Saber. This novel is from another author and he completely misunderstood Saber's cahracter. He made her more naive and idealistic, you know, that generic "white knight" archetype. While original Saber (FSN) was more pragmatic, coldhearted and even ruthless at times, she was more like Kiritsugu. But apparently the author wanted to create a conflict between Saber and Kiritsugu (which actually contradicts with info we get from FSN where she literally says she has never spoken with Kiritsugu) and changed her character.
@@siegmeyerofcatarina9744 Of course saber is different from stay night saber
Its called character development
There is no point in saber being the same in Zero then stay night otherwise it means she hasn't learnt anything
Saber thought she was at fault but she still wanted to uphold her ideals
it wasn't until she saw lancelot that she truly wanted the grail more than anything even if it meant putting aside her ideals
We literally see her at the end of Zero crying and apologizing to everyone saying she will get the grail NO MATTER WHAT
So her character changed from zero to stay night thats all
It changed from I want the grail to I will get the grail no matter what it takes
Yh but Zero contradicts stay night but tbf stay night contradicts stay night as well
Whenever it comes to stuff that happened ten years ago stay night literally makes zero sense
So gilgamesh fought saber in a sea of fire
Yet Saber destroyed the grail and spilt it on top of gilgamesh
But it was spilling the grail that caused the fire
This is what happened in the fate route it makes no sense
Did saber destroy and spill the grail on Gilgamesh, he climbed out of it and they start fighting?
and saber disappears sometime mid fight even tho she says kiritsugu is the reason she couldn't finish he fight with archer because he ordered her to destroy the grail
Stay night contradicts itself for the events of Zero lol
@@SDHVFS stay night doesn't contradict itself, it's Zero contradicts FSN. I think you know that Nasu himself said that FZ is in a different timeline from FSN. And your point about "character development from FZ to FSN" makes no sense because we know what kind of king she was from FSN (we saw her flashbacks), plus Garden of Avalon novel exists, and even goddamn Hollow Ataraxia gives us some info about her past. So if you want to blame someone, blame Urobuchi. He literally says in one of the interviews that he doesn't like "noble" and "chivalrous" characters. And he wasn't lying, just look at Lancer and Saber in FZ.
About the Grail mud, you seems to forgetting Fate and UBW routes where there is that mud everywhere before the Grail is destroyed. You don't need the destroyed Grail to get the mud.
And why so many spaces?
" Yoy can't bring all your family" lol im dead
Then Iskandar was like 'Watch me!'.
thanks for the reaction! i’ve been really looking forward to this one in particular! ☺️
The banquet of the kings!!!!
This scene alone better than alot of anime combined
episode 11, 15 and 23 are easily the best episodes of the show
Arturia lived for her people. Although it's hard for normal people like rider to understand the kind of other worldly saint hood this requires it undeniably created a stage in British history that changed the course of humanity in the type moon world.
There is no ideal that is not worth pursuing if it's something done to the best of your ability.
The problem is while both artoria and iskandar's ideals were wrong and right in their own ways one lead to the kind and his people's regret while the others lived a fulfilling life they don't regret
@@mohamedelhediissa289 Thats kind of the point. Arturia shouldent regret her life because she has nothing to apologize for since she did the best she could. Which is what she had to learn in her character arc in fate stay night visual novel. All the things she goes through in this show including this episode is mere set up for that. This is a prequel as you know
@@mohamedelhediissa289 they really are at both ends of the spectrum.
Iskandar was the incarnation of his people's desire, hunger, pride, etc. He lived life to tbe fullest so that his people would and they did, they followed him till the end to the point they became servant.
Artoria is more like jesus. She took the burden of all her people on herself and became the front wall of her kingdom. Only thing is that she regrets it because britain falls at the end.
Britain was meant to fall, even if she wasnt there. She walked the path of the salvation of his people alone only to regret it at the end
Iskandar is the best character in the entire fate franchiae & I will die on that hill.
I would LOVE a spin-off of Iskandar & his adventures when he was king.
He made me want to die for him like erwin in aot made me wanna do lmao
There are some great episodes in this show. But this is hands down one of my favorites. Not just because of Iskander's Noble Phantasm. But, the dialogue, the setting, all of it just works so well. Also Gilgamesh has one of the best laughs I've ever heard!
There's a fun fact about Iskandars Noble Phantasm but its also a lowkey spoiler-ish so I'll try to mention it on the finale episode.
No, that soldier is not Waver...
@@vicount3944 would be so cool if it was tho
@@datchief780 its fun to speculate about stuff, but too many people love to push an already officially debunked "fun fact"
@@vicount3944 im not talking about that
@@bookofsol so what's the fact then?
This was one of the first episodes that made me realize how fucked up Sabers story is(besides the fact shes King Arthur) the final scene of her in this show shows it best though which isnt as spoilery as you would think because its actually a flashback to when she died at the Battle of Camlam so its hundreds of years before the show. Im still going to skip a few lines because it still is the end of the show.
Pretty much its her dying moments she is one of the only people left alive and because of some interesting circumstances she actually remembers being summoned and she is thinking about her life and stuff. One of the things she thinks about is what Iskander said to her about how she failed her people and she also thinks of the death of Sir Lancelot(bit of backstory in case you dont know the legend, Lancelot fell in love with Arthurs wife, Queen Guinevere, and they had an affair King Arthur found out and at least in the Fate series Arthur eventualy had to fight and kill Lancelot. The biggest difference between the legend and Fate is Saber wasnt actually in love with her wife she married her because a king needs a queen(though she did care about and trust her completely Guinevere was one of the only people that knew she was a woman the others being the other knights and Merlin) so she was actually fine with and i think even encouraged Lancelots relationship with her but once the public found out she had no choice but to punish them. Also possibly Lancelots death i dont remember how he dies in the legends.) and she ends up dieing thinking she failed everyone and didnt deserve to be king. What makes it worse is while this is happening it keeps cutting to Lancelots death and what he was trying to say to her as he died but she didnt hear it. Pretty much he said "you were the best king to ever live and all of the Knights of the Round Table felt the same way." In other words Saber died thinking she failed her closest friends(The Knights of the Round Table) and they hated her for it and she shouldnt have been king but in reality none of them including Sir Lancelot who she killed felt that way. FUCK. Oh and something that makes the scene even more fun the corpse she is kneeling on is Mordred...her daughter...who she just killed...Mordred is also the person that landed the killing blow on her.
Someday, I'll tell my kids King Arthur had a verbal beatdown from Alexander the Great during a wine party.
"oohh HANDSOME"
Me: Hahaha *Laughs in SPOILERS* hahahaha
dats not who you think it is
@@HeroEmiya it IS him, the Throne of heroes exists outside of time itself, so he summons his future self into his army
@@chicoazteca was said in one of interviews that its just some dude, they even dropped his name but dont remember it rn
@@HeroEmiya Lord Ell melloi...
Is not Waver is Eumenes go look it up.
Love the video Imon Nation and ABI Nation stay motivated dream big 1 Mill on the way
In excavations of the seige of Tyre Archeologists kept turning up lead slingstones with "May this hit you in the balls" carved into them in greek.
This anime has captured that energy perfectly in Iskander, my only regret is that the slingers and cavary never got a spotlight in his army.
Don't let Rider and Gil talk down to Saber. They might be right in some aspects, but when they dived into the Camelot story you realize Saber was literally the only person holding the entire world together. The infamous "you don't understand people" quote was actually walked back by the person who originally said it when he realized the whole situation after the matter.
Easily the greatest scene in the entire show
this series take of king is always fascinated me
are you guys planning to watch all fate? like fate/zero, fate UBW, fate HF, fate grand order, Fate apocrypha? or just fate zero?
I expected them to enjoy Gilgamesh more tbh
Episode was a 10 out of 10. 🔥 This is why Fate Zero is up there for me.
This is my personal favorite episode out of all the Fate series
This was one if the highlights of this show.
Abi really really tryna find out wat else iskander can conquer🤣😏
Waver & Alexander are my fav from all the fate timelines, or Lord el-melloi the 2nd 😂😂
Can you tell me what brand are your chairs or the link? thanks!
Is the rest of the fate episodes in the pateron
History- You should watch Fate: Demonic Front Babylonia. Delves into Gilgamesh as well.
if you are trying to sell it to them, you should also mention that he spends the entire show without a shirt on.
I JUST learned this news and wanted to let you guys know! From what I been seeing Black Clover anime will end March 30th..I'm assuming it's because of how close and how fast it's catching up to the manga. So what I'm suspecting will happen is that they are gonna end the anime for a bit so the manga has time to get a good distance ahead before starting the show back up, kinda like Dragonball Super. I just wanted to let you guys know before I forget, the manga is crazy good right now so I'm curious where the anime will cut off at.
This episode is what i really loved about Fate Zero. I can’t wait for episode 16 ohhhhh boyyyy’
How would this go with King Hassan instead of Hundred Face
from what u said, i think u would enjoy Fate Babylonia
Pretty much the basis of any reasonable argument....what both of them are saying makes sense and what both of them are saying also has major flaws and am not on any of their sides here ....before they were kings...they were people ....serve yourself first ....be a saint later when your fulfilled... but regardless of what path they walked their kingdoms ended up in the dust
So if you ask me
Just wing it
Finally, the meeting of the Kings
My second fave episode for sure. And of course both my fave eps are Rider eps :)
Honestly Poor assasin, They were obligated to "TRY" to fight Iskandar for Kirei and Tokiomi
@@homielander5924 So?
@@homielander5924 I was refering the fact that they were obligated by a comand spell to figth Iskandar
I dont say they were good people
>Kirei and Kotomine
bruh
@@homielander5924 well Gilgamesh wasn't a good person in life. What's you point then? Hassan is actually more loyal and "normal" person compared to Gil.
@@homielander5924 because personality-wise Hassan of the Hundred Personas is more likable than Gilga?
Lmao Jesus didn't wear hobo clothes, the fact is he wore expensive or well made garments that even the Roman soliders gamble for, Jesus was also Stern and educated example when whip the people for using the HOUSE OF GOD as a market place so he had qualities of Riders just different views to how people should be. I am very glad u guys are enjoying the show, its one of my favorite animes.
I thought they would like Gilgamesh a little more
Yes, he is Alexander The Great.
Gilgamesh, King of Uruk, from the mythology of Mesopotamia.
Fate Grand Order is the go to for more of the historical vibes 💯
And Fate Grand Order Babylonia gave me, personally, a new perspective on Gilgamesh. Maybe because that's him at a later point in his life.
@@GManJR75 you mean earlier point ?
Because thats him when he was alive before he became a servant.
@@austinpierce2599 I mean Gilgamesh at a later point in his life as king of Uruk. Before he became a Heroic Spirit.
@@GManJR75 the Gilgamesh we met in Fate/Zero was him before he met Enkidu. Gil at this point was a tyrant asshole
Gil in FGO was after Enkidu's death and after his journey to find the immortal herbs. Gil at this point finally got his development and grow up
@@cuongquoc5877 Yeah I know that. But, before Fate Grand Order Babylonia I just thought Gilgamesh was always like he was in this and Fate/Stay Night. Seeing him as a just, strong, and somewhat kind ruler felt off at first. But the more I watched and learned about him and Enkidu. I changed my mind about him as a whole. Caster Gilgamesh is what made me see him in a different light.
Yup... thats Alexander the Great for you.
Grandeur at its fullest!
8:57 Who could this handsome guy be?🤫
Dwl, abi is so thirsty... i love it 😂💕
Check out Fate Grand Order for more historical settings. Highly suggest Fate/Grand Order: Absolute Demonic Front: Babylonia.
Gramps will surely be disappointed to assassin in this episode
more like in her master
OOoooo yesss the series I've been waiting for😃😃😃
Those dreads are so pretty
look up for original sources written hundreds / thousand years ago cannot be count as spoilers !
Maybe they should watch FGO? I mean... when they are done with UBW Camelot will be out. Probably...
if you want more historical aspects of fate, you should really watch fate/ grand order! its amazing
ENUMAAAA ELISH!!!! BRRTTTTTTTTTT
My favorite episode
OOF saber can take both of them 2v1 tbh no cap
Alexander the Great best servant!
The banquet of kings is by far my favorite scene in all of the Fate franchise. The clash of ideologies is EVERYTHING. What's most interesting about the dialogue is that none of them is 100% correct. Saber is naive and overly idealistic. She babied her subjects and as a result the country crumbled without her. Rider is a bloodthirsty tyrant who prioritized glory over the prosperity of his people. And Gilgamesh...is Gilgamesh. In my opinion, a split between saber and riders mentality with a tiny bit of Gilgamesh’s charisma is correct.
"And gilgamesh... is gilgamesh" thats probably the best way to describe Gils character lol
Saber's country didn't crumble because of her. Camelot was doomed to crumble because it's the end of the Age of Gods. In fsct Saber postponed it, even Marlin didn't see it with his Clairvoyance. She objectively the best king out of all three of them, though to be honest you can barely call Alex a king... I assume you haven't read any of the Fate novels if you call Saber naive.
@@siegmeyerofcatarina9744 Ok number 1 you clearly don't understand the point of zero
Its the fact that its saber fault camelot fell
ITS THAT SHE BLAMES HERSELF FOR IT
whether its her fault or not is irrelevant the whole story is she blames herself
Hence shirou saying its not your fault because it wasn't her fault she just didn't realise.
Camelots fall had nothing to do with the end of the age of gods (unless you can provide a valid source)
Camelots fall was due to a large number of factors
-Saber was only partly at fault,
to say its all her fault is wrong
to say she is devoid of fault is nothing but a saber fanboy who ignores the story.
-Her people (the knights of the round table) were also at fault as stated by Gilgamesh (I will go in more detail if you ask)
-Lancelot affair as well was a mess
-There also the scheming of morgan le fray, stealing avalon the mordred stuff
-As well as merlin getting trapped in Avalon
dissatisfied
Had any one of these been changed saber would likely have survived
In short it was a combination of everyone being idiots and putting a massive burden on saber that Gil said no human would be able to bare, and saber carrying this burden alone
is what led to camelots destruction
not some nonsense of destiny or the end of the age of gods
@@SDHVFS at this point I'm not sure if you are serious or not. What does all that have to do with the fact that Saber from FZ and Saber from FSN are two different charcters and it has nothing to do with "character development". It's just a convenient excusem which has nothing to do woth reality (mostly comes from anime onlys, but from your words I can guess that you've read at least FSN and FZ, I still suggest you to read Garden of Avalon (the novel) and even play FGO game, it tells quite a lot about Camelot actually).
@@siegmeyerofcatarina9744 I have seen most fates but have yet to read garden of avalon and I am nearly on the camelot arc in FGO
Right now I am basing my knowledge of
Stay night
Zero
Partly extra CCC and apocypha
Since most others don't talk about her reign
Can you summarize what kind of king saber was during garden of avalon
BTW I wasn't talking about the FSN and character stuff
I was replying to another point you were making that came on my notifications
Gilgamesh is half god half man so that was unfair to begin with
More like two thirds divine and a third mortal.
@@fanuelnduna8191 Exactly
@@martinma2136 he doesn't like gods so his divinity is low anyway.
I only watch these reaction just to pretend I'm whomever they are 🥰 over.
Naive saber
*Bows* HAIL THE KING OF CONQUERORS! HAIL ISKANDAR!
This is the reason why fate zero is so goddamn great, a fucking masterpiece.
I only bothered to watch stay night cus it was a sequel but it doesnt even compare zero is too good.
❤❤❤❤❤
Iskandar is my favourite by far
i love u
you wont get much context till / fate apocapha / a side story with aurthers kid in the cast which brings a better view of what happened /p.s never seen the games //
You don't need Apocrypha to know that Mordred was an idiot. Hell, everyone in Camelot was an idiot.
I would say saber has potential as a prime minister of a democracy but not as a king.
And I would say Alexander is more fit to be a general, not a king, because his empire went to shit.
@@vicount3944 Now I think about it. He really better to lead an army instead of a country.
@@vicount3944 it was ironic that despite Archer Gil is the most asshole of them all. His rule was the most successful and he never had a tragic end in his life time (except for losing Enkidu ofc)
His rule last for decades until he died and his descendants continued his legacy.
@@cuongquoc5877 because he didn't have to deal with problems Artoria had. The Age of Gods is near its end, there is nothing you can do really, yet Artoria postponed it. Not sure if Gil could've done it better.
“I like that long haired guy, I hope we see more of him.”
Honey, that’s Waver. Rider’s master.
It's not Waver. Is Eumenes. Waver didn't meet the conditions to become a servant in his life time.
It'S wAvEr!!1!
My god, you people...
@@Yusei5ds0707 We should start a drinking game. Take a shot everytime someone says this shit.
@@vicount3944 well he kinda looks like him and the type-moon lore is just too vast for the avarage viewer. So I don't blame them.
@@Yusei5ds0707 I mistook him for El-Melloi II who actually IS Waver, and a pseudo-servant. So it was a visual mistake on my part, not a lore mistake
Yeah saber wasn’t the right King to rule but she more of a hero than a king.
You need to watch first fate series they showed the history in the first series
Because fate zero isn't the first series
I love love looooooveeee it has one of the best philosophical debates on how to be a true leader probably one of my favorite lines in all of media, “I said this drink is as your blood if you insist on spilling it”🔥, and shows that rider is as strong as Gilgamesh to the point where Gil would have to go EAll out to defEAt him and you get to look forward to what that will look likEA it’s gonna be grEAt
ummm, Rider is nowhere close to being as strong as Gilgamesh, he just respected him enough as a person to bring out his "big gun".
Watch the walking dead season 10
Saber is not a king, she is more of a saint. Hence why Caster is so insistent that she is Jeanne D'Arc.
Yes, because Caster knew shit about Saber in order to come to that conclusion, lol. Nah dude, it's just a reference to how back in 2004 the newest fans thought Saber would be Joan of Arc. Gilles is just crazy.
And no, Saber is a king. She earned that title. King is not something that can be defined by people like Alexander. There have been great kings and shit kings, but kings nonetheless. If we take something like what Beowulf says in Fate/Grand Order: "Part of being king is preparing for what happens when you're gone" then Alex wouldn't be a king either.