Hey Colt, give this a whirl. Instead of bussing an instrument directly to the LFE on an aux send, try sending to an aux with Pro Subharmonic on it (100% wet) and assign the output of that to the LFE. That will really get the room shaking! :) There are two ways of thinking about the LFE in ATMOS. The way you are doing it, is using it as an actual "low frequency enhancement". The way I described is using the LFE as a content channel that will only be heard in the ATMOS or a 7.1/5.1 downmix. Love your channel!
Wonderful video! Atmos is truly an experience to produce/mix and enjoy/listen in. I'm very excited to see how immersive music evolves with the consumer and creators like you, Colt. Cheers from my Atmos studio in Colorado!
Hi colt - I’m over thirty years in the stereo business and started atmos three years ago! I really felt the same way - the old vibe and motivation and excitement is there again - I love atmos - thanks for the channel Kai
Present Day Production gave you a massive shout out the other day. And this video shows exactly why. You give incredible advice from the real perspective of a sensible audio engineer. You're right about a lot of people talking crap about subjects they know nothing about. Atoms is an incredible medium but it feels incredibly daunting to jump into the format. Far play to you for doing so. Thanks for your very informative videos.
It's so awesome to see you enjoy the fruits of your labor with your Atmos rig! Can't wait to see more of your insights as you gain experience with this new mixing style! Much love brother!
There are transparent diffusers that you might try on the window. You might even just bend some plexi glass DIY style. I just made a too tight string sling and forced the plexi sheet to curve. I'm really enjoying these atmos videos. Thank's for sharing your learning experience 🙏
In about 1974, while studying music (along with girls and surfing) at U.C. Santa Barbara, I started transporting (lugging!) my trusty (25 lb. or so) Sony 4-channel reel-to-reel tape recorder around, in order to capture "surround" sound! It seemed like magic, to play back sound (live music, lectures, etc.) coming from "all over". Of course, in hind sight, it was very basic and technically flawed. Great fun, but only scratching the surface of what your video shows is possible. Thanks SO much for this! I still have a recording studio, and may use this detailed blueprint to jump back on the technical bandwagon, way past our current 5.1 surround system.
Man yea this whole setup is just so crazy to me. I’ve only had a few chances to work in an Atmos Space, and it’s just a completely different ballpark from plain stereo. And the craziest part, I’ve talked to many seasoned Dolby engineers, and it seems like they are also just learning as they go. It’s still very new, especially to the extent of how it’ll be pushed into everyday life soon. Excited to see where your Atmos journey takes you 👍
Great video, Colt! We agree with your conclusion at the end - the ability to have amazingly huge dynamics, the lack of contention in just one pair of speakers due to being able to space things out, and just the MASSIVE jump in immersion level is really amazing. It's a format for creatives. Atmos has become almost 100% of our work within music produciton now and we are SUPER excited to see where it goes next! Keep up the great content!
Hey colt I’ve been working in Atmos for the past 18 months. I can’t begin to describe my excitement for your journey. It’s alotnof fun! One reverb I highly highly recommend for Dolby Atmos in a 9.1.4 setup is the symphony 3d plugin it’s by far the most powerful and delicious reverb. Also a little bit of vocal in the centre channel -18/-24 db helps me in the translations . But by all means find your own flow. Big love from London bro Ollie
Hey Colt! Love all the progress you're making!!! So, this concept may seem controversial, maybe biased but I feel strongly that it's true, applicable and will absolutely compliment everything Mike Miller has given to you and immersive audio. The ultimate goal for multichannel anything is to get all the speakers - whether 2 or 12 - to reproduce the source material as if it were 1 speaker; let me explain. A good friend of mine introduced me to Meridian Trifield YEARS ago, which adds the center channel. Adjust the center to better lock in the stereo image. The delay, width, volume etc have effects that lock in the image. Take it a step further. Add rear channels, to give you 5 (5.1). Now, the processing can effect the stereo source material in 3 channels even more by adjusting the same perimeters in the rears. Regardless of the number of channels or format, the concept should be same - replicate the source in the space and the soundscape as realistically and/or intended, as possible. Make the music sound like and where its intended, whether in the original space or where you choose to put it. Multichannel becomes the most immersive when the space of things is felt more than its heard. It becomes less about whats coming out of the channel and more about manipulating the source material to replicate the realistic soundscape. Multichannel looses it's "gimmick" label and soundscape can become exceptionally realistic! I don't see why ATMOS would be any different, IMO. The space becomes just as important as the music! For what its worth, I have zero ATMOS experience and my multichannel experience is with home audio. I have heard what multichannel that sounds very gimmicky (processed and discrete) and I've heard it to where you really do sound like you're in the room of the recording. Continue to keep your open mind and willingness to explore. I have no doubt you'll find the magic place.
Great video @ColtCapperrune ! As for the window, maybe wide slat wooden plantation shutters on the front window that can act as a bit of a diffuser? They can be slightly pointed down for a bit of diffusion without blocking the view and sunlight. I love having my window straight ahead like you have as well. While I don’t yet have an Atmos rig, I wouldn’t trade the sunlight and view.
My first Atmos mixes felt like when I went from SSL console/outboard to ITB back in the mid 2000’s. It’s a different workflow. For years we had people saying ITB is a fad, etc. What helped me was a colleague letting me sit in on his sessions doing Atmos mixes for some Universal back catalogs.
Colt! It’s not the rear speakers bouncing off the window as much as you think! Let me guess, when you put the organ in the rear speakers it sounded like it was in front of you. That’s called front back reversal. It’s a problem with our ears, not your room. I’ve been mixing in Atmos for about a year but have been listening to Atmos longer than that as I’m a big home theater fanatic. So here’s what’s happening. If a sound behind us hits both our ears at exactly the same time, our brain tells us the sound is in front of us. Move it a little to the left or right behind you and you’ll notice it’s behind you. Play some pink noise and move it dead center in the rears. It will sound like it’s in front of you if you have your speakers level matched and time aligned which I know you do. Move it to the left or right just a touch and you’ll hear it behind you. Also just turn your head slightly left or right and again you’ll hear where it is. Same goes for the rear heights. So one thing I’ve learned and I’ve put into practice is if you’re putting something in the rears have it slightly off center or it’s not worth putting back there.
Agreed!! I have come to love the ultra wide panning of a 5.1 system in Atmos. Instead of panning a lot in the rear and in the fronts for wide elements, I use the side surrounds as my "widest" point in Atmos. Not sure if this is 100% the way to go for translation on everything, but it sounds great. Some of Charlie Puth's album "Voicenotes" is put in Atmos, and they use the wides and side surrounds for any "wide elements" like background vocals. It's a super cool listen!!
Thanks! I will definitely try this out. ...... I was not sure before but now I tried it, and you are not right. But it was an interesting idea. Never heard about it, front back reversal, before. Its probably the front wall/window Colt (Im pretty sure it is).
@@thematsc Not sure where my reply went but it definitely IS a real thing. The other name for it is Front Back Confusion. Google “Front Back Confusion Hearing Phenomenon.” If you’re trying the experiment and it’s not working, then your rear speakers are at different distances or delays or not level matched.
What's often also done with Atmos mixing is getting rid of objects-mixing. Instead you could use a 9.1.6 object based bed (option within PT to setup), where you use the LFE channel of the original Atmos bed + 15 objects placed accordingly. That way you'll end up with a mix with a high enough definition and you can put a mixing/mastering chain on top of the 9.1.6 bus. I also did a lot of experimenting in my studio with both a 7.1.4 and 9.1.4, and honestly, the extra "wides" speakers don't add any additional value for a home studio layout (once you go towards theater setups, they're definitely worth it). So for those who're still in the process of building and investing in Atmos: I got rid of my wides :)
If I understand correctly, object beds as a whole for a mix doesn't translate well to theatrical release parties. It's not that big of a deal in 2024, since no one is listening to music in theaters right now, but the concept between a object beds and the regular dolby bed has a huge difference in translation for theater. For the regular bed, it follows speaker array protocol, meaning anything panned to the left or right will follow an array, leading to a lower definition, but less space to fill. Object beds have very specific metadata and if there is a speaker array put in place, the listeners in a theatrical setting will not get a similar experience, but there will be higher definition, but much more space to fill. In headphones and small home theater setups, this doesn't matter as much. But it is integral to know about, in my opinion.
@@alex_ayers You're indeed correct, but with either option there are trade offs. The mass consumption of Atmos is currently through Apple Music, accommodating regular listeners with Atmos capable headphones or Mac computers. Some might have a home entertainment system capable of playing back Atmos, but that's the vast minority. I, personally, am happy to make the trade off being incompatible with theatrical playback systems if I could get hold on some kind of mastering to make everything more cohesive. Also, in case of a theatrical release, there can always be made a downmix to the 7.1.2 bed as purely playback of audio will (at least in the near future) not happen, thus it needs to be backed in into playback content, which often doesn't have 32+ objects free in the first place
@@NIVIRO I guess the trade off for me is future proofing my mixes to fit every medium, regardless of how what happens to others. But if that is not your intent, then I respect it!! With the 32+ objects deal, when a file is encoded into a DD+JOC (MP4), it clusters to to 15 surround "clusters" plus an LFE. Hardly ever does any playback system actually use the original ADM unless for QC. So regardless of what is being played back, it seems like an unnecessary step to convert and entire 7.1.4 render to 7.1.2, because then you lose the point of having objects to exist in the first place for scalability. The objects will be rendered into the array, which isn't what you always want (at least for me). Objects are better for height panning and movement. I also consider headphone playback, but now in the way people are chasing the Apple Spatial audio version, instead of the speaker format. Apple is going to be changing their Spatial Audio until they get it right, but even then they will probably make a weird change that doesn't make any sense. It is weird to me when people chase an immersive format that is changing every few months through iOS and MacOS updates, knowing that other formats exist. I have a guy that is planning to release his music in a theatrical environment with visuals, which I think is the better option if you are going to do a listening party in a movie theater. But I do like the concept of "paint your own picture" with only audio. I think it would be a worthwhile experience for many. Regardless of any of this, the bed and object beds don't provide a major change in sound quality when it comes to headphones. I think 9.1.6 object beds are great, but should be used sparingly with certain elements that you want in very specific places. If that is not your intent, then I understand.
@@alex_ayers Let me answer chronologically: Having a music release or a theatrical release is a big difference. Whenever one's mixing film, you'll quickly be using all 118 objects available with SFX and other content. If your music mix also has quite some objects in use, it will for sure be downmixed to fit a bed instead by the studio. There's no reason for Atmos music in a theatrical setting without involving film. That's what the downmix to the 7.1.2 bed comment was aimed at. Great you're bringing up Apple playback up. Actually the only way to make sure the playback will stay the same for the biggest part is the use of a channel based playback. These 9.0.6 fixed points (and LFE) are mathematically the same on every playback device/algorithm. As there are no moving objects in the distribution file, the chance of "morphes" due to Apple's algorithm decreases too. And finally the sound quality you mention. It is a massive difference being able to master your Atmos mix properly vs sticking with an object based "mix". You could do some gentle compression on the bed, but that leaves all objects unaffected. With almost every Atmos mix, it sounds less interesting and full than a great stereo mix purely because the lack of a mastering chain. Yes I am aware there's somewhat of processing possible in the Album Assembler, but these tools are too primitive to get it on point. I've been mixing and experimenting with Atmos and Auro3D since 2017 and tried every possible workflow. The most solid mixes I did were the ones I was able to master. One thing which is often overseen but recommended: cut the LFE channel to 120hz. The only downside is that you'll need a linear phase EQ for that to retain proper bass management playback, which introduces a lot of latency. So make sure to compensate the latency from the LFE channel to the other channels/objects
I actually feel the total opposite about all of this so far. The wides are incredibly necessary for studios mixing in Atmos to ensure the proper translation to the binaural when you were doing stuff like pulling the vocals/instruments off of the front wall. Which is a technique a Lot of big mixers, including Mike relied on heavily. No I don’t think the wides are necessary for a home set up at all. But in the studio, I think it’s extremely necessary. I had planned on going 7.1.4 until I took that class with Mike.
Got a chance to have Mike mixed one of my songs earlier this year, and he was using Pro Tools 9.1.4 Mix Bus for everything except the lead vocal. So I suppose he no longer route everything as object after Pro Tools updated the bus width? Got a chance visited Mike’s studio and had such a great time. He really taught me how to mix in atmos by showing the session. RIP Mike 😭😭
Great video, I think my main knock on Atmos is how people are able to listen to music. Even for your client to listen to the mix properly, they need certain headphones and the average consumer isn't buying listening gear specifically for atmos.
My FAVORITE implementation of Atmos is to augment a stereo experience. For it to build a room, so to speak. Create the incredible depth that only a surround sound system can. I can turn gimmicky really fast with odd and distracting panning decisions.
28:19 if you want to fix that shaker issue that happens on headphones, take off the binauralization for the shaker object, so instead of leaving it at Near, Leave it at Off. I figured this mixing tons of amapiano and afrobeats for atmos.
"We have to continually be jumping off cliffs and developing our wings on the way down." Ray Bradbury - and - Kurt Vonnegut (take your pick. both have their own versions)
Hey Colt, been following you and all your videos for years now. I’ve also been following your Atmos journey, very pumped for you bro. I’m sure you will be up to speed in no time. I enjoy the way you explain and describe everything. The closest I’ll ever get to Atmos is by using headphones. I’m curious how that will translate. Anyway thanks for being a “real person” and a good dude. Cheers! Keith
Great video. Making me want to get into the atmos world but I want to experience it before fully locking in to it! On another note, SAMPLY is SOO clutch. By far the best file distribution service I've used and definitely a steal for the price. Absolutely love it.
Also, wanted to recommend some great Atmos mixes. You mentioned the Tiesto one which is really fun. Check out 80’s films by Jon Bellion, bellyache by Billie Eilish, We don’t talk about Bruno from Encanto, Turn off the lights by Ava Max, Subdivisions by Rush, and of course Rocket Man by Elton John! Also, I checked out the Halsey tune and Daydreaming in my theater. Man, those were both awesome!
You can hate on it all you want and you can disagree with me all you want. But discouraging others in the comments from what might be the most fun, creative format they’ve ever experienced. It’s not OK. I filmed this video just for you. th-cam.com/video/9-frNKM5130/w-d-xo.htmlsi=uRQMlXXN9dhrTmog
Colt what is the brand name of the gadget sitting upon Gavin Haverstick tripod which he then attaches the laser? Thanks for all you do!! Watched you from tracking in your apartment till you moved! Your journey continues with infectious enthusiasm!!! Love it.
Couple of things. First, I believe the reason Atmos folddown works is because the lack of hyper-compression on all the individual channels. I have had many a mix destroyed by mastering engineers over the years making it loud. Second, mastering engineers will find a way to introduce hyper-compression to Atmos mixes, thus bringing us back to this stupid loudness wars. Okay, that is all, continue on.
In regards to LFE, I dont know if it helps, but in film, its purpose for us is really for a Low Effect. after all you expect that the whole monitoring is full bandwith. so its less of an extension but more dedicated channel, not as a subs, but as a separate channel so that you dont cram the same subs all in the same speaker channel. Going with that, it makes me think that the use case should be relativly the same. not an always on thing, but as a real LFE, where moments need that extra effect on the low end. Im not sure though if thats how its gonna be in music.
I get that atmos is probably awesome. The problem with it is that most people cannot afford the setup the ways it’s supposed to be enjoyed. I may be wrong and if I am, well I can say good bye to my savings.
Colt, the number one thing you did NOT address in that video was the COST OF ENTRY for producers, artists, and engineers. You danced right around it and only talked about cost of entry from the perspective of the listener, which was so purposeful and disingenuous. Your story was an inspiration to me colt. You made it mixing big records out of a tiny apartment room with relatively minimal setup. Now you are trying to silence and make a fool out of anyone critical of this massive power grab by the industry. This channel used to be cool now it’s just a corporate advertising page. So sad.
Totally agree with how people pushing their opinions without you hearing their mixes is not helpful… although from / few years experience working in immersive music but more in post, I feel comfortable telling you things that I consistently use coz they work for me. Try them if you like :) Another interesting thing that seems to work really well is because we experience/associate height as literal higher frequency, things that are naturally more on high end spectrum translate when place above. This is also why it’s less important for height channels to be full range. I like to think of lfe as the ground and the height as higher end with everything in between (ear level speakers) being full range. Things like shakers, synths, other little percussive things or fx work in heights. I also like to think of pairs of speakers as acoustic spaces within a room that interact with the mix in different ways. For example, I use the sides with a short bright reverb… the rears with a longer darker reverb. This lends itself to how the speakers already sound based on how our ears hear them from their positions which also helps in translation coz I am using the them placements as they occur in nature. Heaps more things to cover but those are some really interesting ones I thought you might enjoy exploring :)
More elitist nonsense. Colts mixes are amazing, but that doesn’t mean he’s correct about everything. Im a hip-hop producer with several placements and briefly worked professionally as an engineer. Most of my mixes probably don’t hold a candle to his, but that means we can’t possibly have an opinion on something? This Atmos thing is really bringing out the gatekeepers and sellouts lol. All I see is a bunch of people making excuses for why these mixes sound so bad and why the cost of entry is so high and impractical for every day use.
Great video. Lots of interesting information. When i was doing the enginears course for Dolby certification one of the things they stressed was the size parameter and to never really go past 7 I’m doing it on headphones because i don’t have an actual Atmos rig. As for my panning i stay away from the Dolby panner. I find the pro tools panner is just cleaner to use. The most useful piece of advice and colt please let me know your take was panning. From to back panning is awesome. Side to side panning be mindful about how far in you come in to the center as there could be a momentary cancellation depending how and what you pan. Because there is no mix buss like you said. Clipping is your friend on individual tracks. Probably the most important is that the songs main elements like kick snare bass and vocals should mostly be left and right speakers. And should sound like the reference. Then the rest of the stuff you can place it in the location in the binaural. Printing stems do it through the master chain if you can! Keeping everything in near is interesting. I might have to try that. In the enginears class they had near/mid/far objects and those tracks correspond to the binaural plugin but that it really doesn’t matter when it’s coming out of the speakers but it does matter in the headphones. From my understanding that means that the mix will bounce and play back on the speakers correctly but that if the binaural plugin isn’t corresponding to the objects it might sound weird on the headphones. So if you are going to place something on the side speakers it should be mid corresponding in the binaural. But again i don’t really understand the why but i have just been doing it. In my session template i have objects that are near/mid/far. And when i import the stems i start dumping on the objects but i make those near/mid/far decisions early on as im going through the stems. From there the panning corresponds to those. So if i chose something as mid it would be panned to those specific speakers. But all near object kinda makes sense to. Ima try it next time. I think it only matters in my case because i mix Dolby on headphones! No center!!! Yes! Lfe channel - a little goes a long way!! Maybe one day the Dolby mix will come first and then we just do stereo rerenders and send that to mastering!!! Thanks colt. Great vid!!
I'm trying to learn a lot about atmos, and you are giving really good information in your channel. Thanks for that! Despite I don't have my atmos room yet, I'm listening to some music with headphones on Tidal. I made a playlist with the atmos and stereo version of each song to compare feelings. Of course just the binaural listening, but the most important for the listener, as almost nobody will have a real room for this. I've been listening to the songs you mention here by Halsey and Harry Styles. And I've found that I don't like them as much as the stereo mastered versions. In Daydreaming, there are some elements on the left channel that are even louder than the main vocals... I have doubts with this new atmos mixes in music, and I thought I was about to resolve them... but still there! But I think it depends on the genre. I have no doubt about Jazz or Classical, so I'm still excited to try some mixes in those styles. Keep with this amazing content on the channel! 👏
Thanks for Sherring ......... I am also excited to be in this proces..building my one Dolby Atmos Room with 9.2.6 With RME Fireface UFXIII...... and the other needed gear...... . looking forward to be where Y are ..... but it takes time and money to go there..... Best frem Denmark DK J
I think what will be interesting given the two sides to build or rent Atmos rooms when needed, verses your total cost vs ROI and use case for your work.
I think a whole lot of people are going to get their mixes roughed out in headphones, and then rent a space like this to do all of their checks before releasing the album
Just look at yourselves and what you’re actually saying. Yeah, let me go RENT A F*CKING ROOM for the day so I can make sure my mix doesn’t sound like dog water 😂. Your massive investment and corporate sponsorships have caused you to put the blinders on dude
Tell me you have no idea how half the industry works without telling me you have no idea LMAO! So many of the best mixers are already doing just this. They get the mix roughed out in headphones, and then they go to an Atmos studio to quality check it. This is an extremely common practice that’s been happening for years already. Just because you’re uninformed doesn’t mean you have to be a dick lol
@@hockeytalk6084 I have been following Atmos for several years to see if in fact it becomes a deliverable to clients along with a stereo version, like Quad and other types from the past. The thought of mixing in stereo, then taking stems to mix in atmos at a rental space has been on a lot of mixers minds. I don’t think you can rent for a day and magically do it. I think you have to spend time at it to create what is needed. Either way if we see Colt has a Reverb sale in the end, we will have our answer.
I've asked on PDP channel but had no luck in getting an answer. I'm genuinely interested. I'm a bit lost - how do you approach an atmos mix for a record with, for example - 1 guitar track and 1 vocal track? Wouldn't 'forced' atmos hinder a creative process? Requiring an adoption of a format that does not benefit your art-form? Thanks!
It’s a good question, if I was mixing a single vocal/guitar in Atmos, I would spread the effects around the room, however, subtle they may be, and keep the vocal near the front, and the guitar in the sides. You can still create an incredibly immersive experience with just a couple instruments. That said, I don’t remember the last time I did a song with just one instrument and a vocal. The smallest sessions I work on are usually 60 or 70 tracks, and the vast majority are well over 100.
@@ColtCapperrune Because this is an ATMOS discussion I have to highlight that I have no intention of being stubborn or rude. My thinking is that as an artist I would like to avoid adding tracks to my record, only to fit the atmos format. Track I had in mind for a 1 guitar / 1 vocal set-up is 'Oliver Anthony - Rich Men North Of Richmond' This is where I'm getting a gut wrenching feeling, when instead of just releasing my creations, I'd be forced to think about atmos mix.
I think this song should always come first. No matter what. If a single guitar/vocal is what your artistic vision is, and that’s what you should do, regardless of the format.
ATMOS is awesome as a possibility. ATMOS being forced is where people are taking issue. With atmos being a requirement, how can a song come first? That seems to be at the core of the disagreement.
@PanAndrzai Sorry we didn't reply your original question - we don't check our comments every day as we're quite busy but I've now replied and given my thoughts on your question! -James
Great vid Colt, looking forward to your tuning video. If youve not already looked at them, Panning wise check out 'Cargo Cult' Spanner (and Slapper) some of 'Sound Particles' Plug ins are great for panning...more $$$ though Doh :) As well as 7th heaven you mentioned, Liquid sonics Cinematic rooms for a multichannel reverb is fantastic/Izotope Stratus and symphony 3D as well..some sort of upmixer is very useful as well, Nugen Halo 3D or Penteo Pro + are both great.
If you use the external Dolby Renderer you do not need to 'print' the automation. No good for me as I need to tun my multichannel Dirac room correction which I can only do within Pro Tools. So I feel your pain.
Really liked this video, I’ve been messing with Atmos to troubleshoot customer’s issues. Video left me with a couple of questions: Would it have been easier to work from the original project rather than stems, to avoid having to ‘uncarve’ parts? Why clippers rather than compression?
Honestly, get yourself some AirPod Max, and logic or ProTools. You will need to download an extra piece of software from audio movers to listen to the pro tools session in real time on AirPods. And then just print stems from a mix you like, and start playing around with it in headphones. Go visit a couple studios that have an Atmos set up, if you’re confident in it, bring one of your mixes. Just play around in the format, and start experimenting. Definitely do all of the above before you purchase 15 speakers.
@@ColtCapperrune Agree, but be carefull about Logic. Many report that Logic dosent work properly in Atmos. Its also about Logic not being updated and no one realy know what Appel is going to do with Logic. Studio One and Cubas/Nuendo ar much better and safer alternatives. But, before all of that, you HAVE to listen to a properly setup 7/9.1.4 system. Headpones may give you 40% of the real thing and sometimes that may be enough for listening :-)
Heights are usually supposed to aim to go slightly over your head. If you imagine a 3-seat couch, draw an “X” over it with your head at the center, in a 2D plane. The heights should aim at either their opposite corner or directly at your head. Play with this until you find something you like. With speakers designed like yours, they really should be pointed directly at your head. If they’re not, you risk cresting a hole in the FR at the crossover point of the speakers. This is not something you should EQ for. If you do, you will detrimentally affect the off axis response. So, best practice is not to try and EQ an issue like that. Fix with proper aiming.
Do you know about Dolby Atmos room tuning being diferant than stereo tuning? There's a 2.8 dBish shelf boost at around 80Hz and a 2.5ish shelf cut around 4-5k. Both with differing slopes (they are just rough numbers too, so don't go by them, just wanted to make you aware in case you were unaware). Edit: NVM you talked about tuning right after I typed it lol...
See now, he just spams a link to his original video where he skimmed over everyone’s legitimate criticisms and gaslit everybody lol. Doesn’t even address cost of entry in the video. Nobody is complaining about how we “hear with 2 ears”. They are complaining because it sounds bad and cost $100,000 and a home renovation. You 100% lost me over this colt
One of my favorite albums to reference for Dolby Atmos is Taylor Swift’s Folklore. Super well done IMO (especially considering Atmos was brand new when the album came out). I really want to know who was behind it.
Coming from Surround mixing for film, I feel like the general guide is still the same even if its music( Atmos is still a kind of surround system anyway) that Its really less about the panning and movement. People focus to much on that. But really its where you can make much cleaner Stereo, wiith a definite Center, then everything about the SRs are just shaping the space. instead of the faux space using reverb, now you have discrete channel to place a space. What makes Atmos great really has less to do with pannings or hearing movement cause it takes too much attention (unless necessary for the project) if people starts thnking now then can create a clearer space, with definite LCR, I think surround mixing will be less complicated. I remember my seniors before telling me to keep those movement really tight as it becomes to big and distracting in theater, and that all those SRs are just nothing but support for the LCR. if anything Atmos really just make sense in headphones for one thing and on thing only. And thats ATMOS creates a true stereo for headphones with a definite center instead of a phantom center.
Hey brother as someone who is in the process of building an atomos room, I would love to know your Stem process, What do you want to see? How many groups? Treated untreated etc I know your going to be evolving on this journey but would be nice to see what your using now? and whats a safe amount of stems to have and or provide. Thanks man Keep it up
Considering the center channel it's not that used in music production purposes, do you see crazy buying a different speaker from your mains for the center channel? for example a ST6 instead of another Trio11 or Trio6? I worry about phase relationship being a significant different in size, but could be significantly less money.
Great video Colt and awesome explanation of Atmos's inner workings, in one of your earlier videos you were exploring the stereo verses Atmos and the future of both, I am curious now you're feeling on how long till the streaming services will only except Atmos mixes, that was a big concern, I heard you use words like amazing, and unbelievable in this video, how will you be able to do just a stereo mix now, your very emotion said that stereo doesn't even compare, just wondering how you feel now? I personally don't see how streaming services will allow in inferior plan old 2 trak mix when there is BAM to be had out there!!!
We saw the video Colt. You went for the low hanging fruit and didn’t actually respond to any of our legitimate criticisms. Whatever floats your boat, man. Just disappointing what this channel has become.
@@hockeytalk6084 I recommend reading the book Immersive Sound The Art and Science of Binaural and Multi-Channel Audio. There is a chapter about listener preference and overall research on how listeners respond to different formats. This book contains a lot of info from real research and explains a lot of stuff related to immersive sound, including binaural headphone listening. This book might answer a lot of questions and in general give a better understanding about immersive sound.
@@hockeytalk6084 My thoughts exactly. Juggling around difficult questions only brings doubt. And Colt... pacing the link to the other yt video as your reply? It will result just in a frustration buildup. People will end up as red as PDP's Mark in the last live stream :D
@Dutch I agree. I’ve liked and listened to colt for a long time but the way he gaslit us over this made me snap lol. He is literally just schilling for these massive corporations at this point. Just disappointing more than anything
Have you checked out any of Steven Wilson's surround mixes? And Elliot Scheiner's remix of Porcupine Tree's "In Absentia"? I think those are 5.1 and not sure if there are any in Atmos.
Andrew Scheps said kind of the same, he hates how snares, kicks, basses, vocals or basically anything sounds like in the center speaker. It's for dialogue in movies, the phantom center just sounds much better for music.
I have heard this, but some things just sound so prominent with kicks and snares of raw drums!! My favorite tracks by The 1975 on their self titled album have kick, snare, and bass, with minor vocals of any sorts in the center speaker. I do agree it's good to use to free up space if you need something more prominent, but never all at the same time, in my opinion.
Wait Mike Millor passed did you say? When was this how did I miss it? RIP MR Millor then. Yes he mixed the Harry's House album. I'd love to hear it fully in Atmos on an Altitude 32. I listened to the 2 part interview Sweet Water did with him after the class. Man I wish I'd been there for the class. Though I use Reaper since I'm blind. Interesting the only thing In the bed channal is the bass.
Does Atmos mixing require all tracks to be in mono so you can place them where you want? If stereo tracks are sent, say, of an electric guitar with stereo delay, would that not work for mixing in Atmos?
Stereo stems are actually the preferred way of mixing. However, in that case, I personally would want the guitar track in stereo, completely dry, and a stereo print of just the effects at 100% wet. Because one of the coolest things is putting the effects in a different spot from the dry instrument
Unfortunately, no, I’ve never been a logic user. But as with all of my content, I try to speak in principles, so it will still apply to any DAW, or genre
Could you do a video or even reply to this comment on how to reference Dolby Atmos mixes? I work in a post production facility - actually one of the few Dolby premiere facilities but for whatever reason, they don’t have the machines setup to playback from Apple Music. I’d love to be able to download a few Atmos mixes - drop them in a pro tools session so that I can listen to some banging Atmos mixes in here. We do all film work in this location and it sounds incredible but everyday I’m just like gahhhh wish I could hear one music mix in this room.
My biggest gripe about atmos… At least up to this point in time, ive not heard an atmos mix that folds down to stereo that can compete with the actual stereo mix. Soooooooo many people listening on AirPods etc ask ‘why does this song sound so weird?” And it’s the playing the atmos mix on stereo phones w the player set to atmos. That’s the biggest issue i find with atmos, you have a top notch mixer (spike stent, serban etc) mixing the stereo mix and it killing, then a whole other mixer gets stems and does a completely different mix and its just not even close, and a lot of the times the consumer is being fed the atmos mix on a stereo peripheral and thats the impression they get of the song, and the mix and talents that the 6-8k was spent getting, doesn’t even get to the ears theyre supposed to
your pro tools looks so different than mine, i love thost atmos speakers. suggestions for beginner studio speakers? rn im just using my seinheiser headphones
Don' t fall in that trap! If u have tons of money ok, do it for ur ego! But 95 % of the people listen on stereo systems or normal headphones. So for what is that? For nothing!
Uh, you could have done it with minimal budget and a quick organic workflow and proper mastering with the Fiedler Audio Atmos Suite!! On headphones!! Because Atmos is consumed with headphones anyways !!! 😎🖖🏼
It’s on by default on everyone’s iPhone, and on Apple Music. I filmed a video going over a bunch of of this. th-cam.com/video/9-frNKM5130/w-d-xo.htmlsi=7PsoByS3yZgrxrTL
I am 100% certain that we will talk about Mike Miller the same way we do all of the other legends in the audio world. RIP to the atmos king.
1000%
How do I find the Mike Miller playlist?🙏
@@unionstation65 music.apple.com/us/playlist/mike-miller-the-engineers/pl.ee8e89ea04994226aeb0fb58388dbd7e
Hey Colt, give this a whirl. Instead of bussing an instrument directly to the LFE on an aux send, try sending to an aux with Pro Subharmonic on it (100% wet) and assign the output of that to the LFE. That will really get the room shaking! :) There are two ways of thinking about the LFE in ATMOS. The way you are doing it, is using it as an actual "low frequency enhancement". The way I described is using the LFE as a content channel that will only be heard in the ATMOS or a 7.1/5.1 downmix.
Love your channel!
agreed 100% ✅
Oh hey! Glad you found us helpful. Cheers.
Thanks for giving us all this insight Colt. We appreciate you
Wonderful video! Atmos is truly an experience to produce/mix and enjoy/listen in. I'm very excited to see how immersive music evolves with the consumer and creators like you, Colt. Cheers from my Atmos studio in Colorado!
Hi colt - I’m over thirty years in the stereo business and started atmos three years ago! I really felt the same way - the old vibe and motivation and excitement is there again - I love atmos - thanks for the channel Kai
Present Day Production gave you a massive shout out the other day. And this video shows exactly why. You give incredible advice from the real perspective of a sensible audio engineer. You're right about a lot of people talking crap about subjects they know nothing about. Atoms is an incredible medium but it feels incredibly daunting to jump into the format. Far play to you for doing so. Thanks for your very informative videos.
It's so awesome to see you enjoy the fruits of your labor with your Atmos rig! Can't wait to see more of your insights as you gain experience with this new mixing style! Much love brother!
There are transparent diffusers that you might try on the window. You might even just bend some plexi glass DIY style. I just made a too tight string sling and forced the plexi sheet to curve.
I'm really enjoying these atmos videos. Thank's for sharing your learning experience 🙏
In about 1974, while studying music (along with girls and surfing) at U.C. Santa Barbara, I started transporting (lugging!) my trusty (25 lb. or so) Sony 4-channel reel-to-reel tape recorder around, in order to capture "surround" sound!
It seemed like magic, to play back sound (live music, lectures, etc.) coming from "all over". Of course, in hind sight, it was very basic and technically flawed. Great fun, but only scratching the surface of what your video shows is possible. Thanks SO much for this! I still have a recording studio, and may use this detailed blueprint to jump back on the technical bandwagon, way past our current 5.1 surround system.
Man yea this whole setup is just so crazy to me. I’ve only had a few chances to work in an Atmos Space, and it’s just a completely different ballpark from plain stereo. And the craziest part, I’ve talked to many seasoned Dolby engineers, and it seems like they are also just learning as they go. It’s still very new, especially to the extent of how it’ll be pushed into everyday life soon. Excited to see where your Atmos journey takes you 👍
Thanks for sharing your journey, very helpful to hear your perspectives on the new format
1 minute in the video - "I love this video already". 💥
Great video, Colt! We agree with your conclusion at the end - the ability to have amazingly huge dynamics, the lack of contention in just one pair of speakers due to being able to space things out, and just the MASSIVE jump in immersion level is really amazing. It's a format for creatives. Atmos has become almost 100% of our work within music produciton now and we are SUPER excited to see where it goes next! Keep up the great content!
Thanks for watching! Appreciate all your content!
Hey colt I’ve been working in Atmos for the past 18 months. I can’t begin to describe my excitement for your journey. It’s alotnof fun!
One reverb I highly highly recommend for Dolby Atmos in a 9.1.4 setup is the symphony 3d plugin it’s by far the most powerful and delicious reverb. Also a little bit of vocal in the centre channel -18/-24 db helps me in the translations . But by all means find your own flow.
Big love from London bro
Ollie
Half the time colt's clients hear the first draft "Okay thats good."
That's talent!
Hey Colt! Love all the progress you're making!!! So, this concept may seem controversial, maybe biased but I feel strongly that it's true, applicable and will absolutely compliment everything Mike Miller has given to you and immersive audio. The ultimate goal for multichannel anything is to get all the speakers - whether 2 or 12 - to reproduce the source material as if it were 1 speaker; let me explain. A good friend of mine introduced me to Meridian Trifield YEARS ago, which adds the center channel. Adjust the center to better lock in the stereo image. The delay, width, volume etc have effects that lock in the image. Take it a step further. Add rear channels, to give you 5 (5.1). Now, the processing can effect the stereo source material in 3 channels even more by adjusting the same perimeters in the rears. Regardless of the number of channels or format, the concept should be same - replicate the source in the space and the soundscape as realistically and/or intended, as possible. Make the music sound like and where its intended, whether in the original space or where you choose to put it. Multichannel becomes the most immersive when the space of things is felt more than its heard. It becomes less about whats coming out of the channel and more about manipulating the source material to replicate the realistic soundscape. Multichannel looses it's "gimmick" label and soundscape can become exceptionally realistic! I don't see why ATMOS would be any different, IMO. The space becomes just as important as the music! For what its worth, I have zero ATMOS experience and my multichannel experience is with home audio. I have heard what multichannel that sounds very gimmicky (processed and discrete) and I've heard it to where you really do sound like you're in the room of the recording. Continue to keep your open mind and willingness to explore. I have no doubt you'll find the magic place.
Great video @ColtCapperrune ! As for the window, maybe wide slat wooden plantation shutters on the front window that can act as a bit of a diffuser? They can be slightly pointed down for a bit of diffusion without blocking the view and sunlight. I love having my window straight ahead like you have as well. While I don’t yet have an Atmos rig, I wouldn’t trade the sunlight and view.
My first Atmos mixes felt like when I went from SSL console/outboard to ITB back in the mid 2000’s. It’s a different workflow. For years we had people saying ITB is a fad, etc. What helped me was a colleague letting me sit in on his sessions doing Atmos mixes for some Universal back catalogs.
Great video, this is so exciting! I’m sorry for your loss friend
Looks like a lot of fun! Keep it up 👍 I have learned a ton of cool things on this channel thanks man 🤘😎🤘
Colt! It’s not the rear speakers bouncing off the window as much as you think! Let me guess, when you put the organ in the rear speakers it sounded like it was in front of you. That’s called front back reversal. It’s a problem with our ears, not your room. I’ve been mixing in Atmos for about a year but have been listening to Atmos longer than that as I’m a big home theater fanatic. So here’s what’s happening. If a sound behind us hits both our ears at exactly the same time, our brain tells us the sound is in front of us. Move it a little to the left or right behind you and you’ll notice it’s behind you. Play some pink noise and move it dead center in the rears. It will sound like it’s in front of you if you have your speakers level matched and time aligned which I know you do. Move it to the left or right just a touch and you’ll hear it behind you. Also just turn your head slightly left or right and again you’ll hear where it is. Same goes for the rear heights. So one thing I’ve learned and I’ve put into practice is if you’re putting something in the rears have it slightly off center or it’s not worth putting back there.
That is really interesting!! Thanks for that! I will definitely do some experimenting!
Agreed!! I have come to love the ultra wide panning of a 5.1 system in Atmos. Instead of panning a lot in the rear and in the fronts for wide elements, I use the side surrounds as my "widest" point in Atmos. Not sure if this is 100% the way to go for translation on everything, but it sounds great. Some of Charlie Puth's album "Voicenotes" is put in Atmos, and they use the wides and side surrounds for any "wide elements" like background vocals. It's a super cool listen!!
Thanks! I will definitely try this out.
...... I was not sure before but now I tried it, and you are not right. But it was an interesting idea. Never heard about it, front back reversal, before.
Its probably the front wall/window Colt (Im pretty sure it is).
@@thematsc Not sure where my reply went but it definitely IS a real thing. The other name for it is Front Back Confusion. Google “Front Back Confusion Hearing Phenomenon.” If you’re trying the experiment and it’s not working, then your rear speakers are at different distances or delays or not level matched.
@@alex_ayers Google “Front Back Confusion Hearing Phenomenon.” It’s most definitely a real thing!
What's often also done with Atmos mixing is getting rid of objects-mixing. Instead you could use a 9.1.6 object based bed (option within PT to setup), where you use the LFE channel of the original Atmos bed + 15 objects placed accordingly. That way you'll end up with a mix with a high enough definition and you can put a mixing/mastering chain on top of the 9.1.6 bus.
I also did a lot of experimenting in my studio with both a 7.1.4 and 9.1.4, and honestly, the extra "wides" speakers don't add any additional value for a home studio layout (once you go towards theater setups, they're definitely worth it). So for those who're still in the process of building and investing in Atmos: I got rid of my wides :)
If I understand correctly, object beds as a whole for a mix doesn't translate well to theatrical release parties. It's not that big of a deal in 2024, since no one is listening to music in theaters right now, but the concept between a object beds and the regular dolby bed has a huge difference in translation for theater. For the regular bed, it follows speaker array protocol, meaning anything panned to the left or right will follow an array, leading to a lower definition, but less space to fill. Object beds have very specific metadata and if there is a speaker array put in place, the listeners in a theatrical setting will not get a similar experience, but there will be higher definition, but much more space to fill.
In headphones and small home theater setups, this doesn't matter as much. But it is integral to know about, in my opinion.
@@alex_ayers You're indeed correct, but with either option there are trade offs. The mass consumption of Atmos is currently through Apple Music, accommodating regular listeners with Atmos capable headphones or Mac computers. Some might have a home entertainment system capable of playing back Atmos, but that's the vast minority. I, personally, am happy to make the trade off being incompatible with theatrical playback systems if I could get hold on some kind of mastering to make everything more cohesive.
Also, in case of a theatrical release, there can always be made a downmix to the 7.1.2 bed as purely playback of audio will (at least in the near future) not happen, thus it needs to be backed in into playback content, which often doesn't have 32+ objects free in the first place
@@NIVIRO I guess the trade off for me is future proofing my mixes to fit every medium, regardless of how what happens to others. But if that is not your intent, then I respect it!! With the 32+ objects deal, when a file is encoded into a DD+JOC (MP4), it clusters to to 15 surround "clusters" plus an LFE. Hardly ever does any playback system actually use the original ADM unless for QC. So regardless of what is being played back, it seems like an unnecessary step to convert and entire 7.1.4 render to 7.1.2, because then you lose the point of having objects to exist in the first place for scalability. The objects will be rendered into the array, which isn't what you always want (at least for me). Objects are better for height panning and movement.
I also consider headphone playback, but now in the way people are chasing the Apple Spatial audio version, instead of the speaker format. Apple is going to be changing their Spatial Audio until they get it right, but even then they will probably make a weird change that doesn't make any sense. It is weird to me when people chase an immersive format that is changing every few months through iOS and MacOS updates, knowing that other formats exist. I have a guy that is planning to release his music in a theatrical environment with visuals, which I think is the better option if you are going to do a listening party in a movie theater. But I do like the concept of "paint your own picture" with only audio. I think it would be a worthwhile experience for many.
Regardless of any of this, the bed and object beds don't provide a major change in sound quality when it comes to headphones. I think 9.1.6 object beds are great, but should be used sparingly with certain elements that you want in very specific places. If that is not your intent, then I understand.
@@alex_ayers Let me answer chronologically:
Having a music release or a theatrical release is a big difference. Whenever one's mixing film, you'll quickly be using all 118 objects available with SFX and other content. If your music mix also has quite some objects in use, it will for sure be downmixed to fit a bed instead by the studio. There's no reason for Atmos music in a theatrical setting without involving film. That's what the downmix to the 7.1.2 bed comment was aimed at.
Great you're bringing up Apple playback up. Actually the only way to make sure the playback will stay the same for the biggest part is the use of a channel based playback. These 9.0.6 fixed points (and LFE) are mathematically the same on every playback device/algorithm. As there are no moving objects in the distribution file, the chance of "morphes" due to Apple's algorithm decreases too.
And finally the sound quality you mention. It is a massive difference being able to master your Atmos mix properly vs sticking with an object based "mix". You could do some gentle compression on the bed, but that leaves all objects unaffected. With almost every Atmos mix, it sounds less interesting and full than a great stereo mix purely because the lack of a mastering chain. Yes I am aware there's somewhat of processing possible in the Album Assembler, but these tools are too primitive to get it on point.
I've been mixing and experimenting with Atmos and Auro3D since 2017 and tried every possible workflow. The most solid mixes I did were the ones I was able to master.
One thing which is often overseen but recommended: cut the LFE channel to 120hz. The only downside is that you'll need a linear phase EQ for that to retain proper bass management playback, which introduces a lot of latency. So make sure to compensate the latency from the LFE channel to the other channels/objects
I actually feel the total opposite about all of this so far. The wides are incredibly necessary for studios mixing in Atmos to ensure the proper translation to the binaural when you were doing stuff like pulling the vocals/instruments off of the front wall. Which is a technique a Lot of big mixers, including Mike relied on heavily. No I don’t think the wides are necessary for a home set up at all. But in the studio, I think it’s extremely necessary. I had planned on going 7.1.4 until I took that class with Mike.
Throw your sound proof curtain on a motorized rod. Lower it when mixing, raise it when you want daylight.
This is awesome, thanks! Always wondered how this worked.
thank you for the atmos content, colt! very eye-opening
Got a chance to have Mike mixed one of my songs earlier this year, and he was using Pro Tools 9.1.4 Mix Bus for everything except the lead vocal. So I suppose he no longer route everything as object after Pro Tools updated the bus width? Got a chance visited Mike’s studio and had such a great time. He really taught me how to mix in atmos by showing the session. RIP Mike 😭😭
I'm thrilled to see you getting started with Atmos! I haven't had the chance to listen to Atmos yet, but I bet it sounds absolutely amazing.
Great video, I think my main knock on Atmos is how people are able to listen to music. Even for your client to listen to the mix properly, they need certain headphones and the average consumer isn't buying listening gear specifically for atmos.
TwentyOnePilots have some pretty awesome atmos mixes of their latest albums. I really like the Jumpsuit mix spatial effects!
My FAVORITE implementation of Atmos is to augment a stereo experience. For it to build a room, so to speak. Create the incredible depth that only a surround sound system can.
I can turn gimmicky really fast with odd and distracting panning decisions.
28:19 if you want to fix that shaker issue that happens on headphones, take off the binauralization for the shaker object, so instead of leaving it at Near, Leave it at Off. I figured this mixing tons of amapiano and afrobeats for atmos.
"We have to continually be jumping off cliffs and developing our wings on the way down." Ray Bradbury - and - Kurt Vonnegut (take your pick. both have their own versions)
Hey Colt, been following you and all your videos for years now. I’ve also been following your Atmos journey, very pumped for you bro. I’m sure you will be up to speed in no time. I enjoy the way you explain and describe everything. The closest I’ll ever get to Atmos is by using headphones. I’m curious how that will translate. Anyway thanks for being a “real person” and a good dude. Cheers! Keith
Great video. Making me want to get into the atmos world but I want to experience it before fully locking in to it! On another note, SAMPLY is SOO clutch. By far the best file distribution service I've used and definitely a steal for the price. Absolutely love it.
Yes!!! Clipping is king. I love clippers
Try putting guitars in the wides. Doesn’t sound thin, still fronty but wider - this seems to translate really well for me!
Also, wanted to recommend some great Atmos mixes. You mentioned the Tiesto one which is really fun. Check out 80’s films by Jon Bellion, bellyache by Billie Eilish, We don’t talk about Bruno from Encanto, Turn off the lights by Ava Max, Subdivisions by Rush, and of course Rocket Man by Elton John!
Also, I checked out the Halsey tune and Daydreaming in my theater. Man, those were both awesome!
Thanks so much for the suggestions! I’ll check them out ASAP!
Gonna have to re mortgage my house so I can mix in atmos. You did this to me COLT!!!!!!!
Haha IM SORRY!! 😂
Don’t waste your money.
You can hate on it all you want and you can disagree with me all you want. But discouraging others in the comments from what might be the most fun, creative format they’ve ever experienced. It’s not OK. I filmed this video just for you.
th-cam.com/video/9-frNKM5130/w-d-xo.htmlsi=uRQMlXXN9dhrTmog
Don't waste your money
there’s a difference between “hating on you”, and being of the opinion that remortgaging a house to sink lots of money into atmos is silly.
Colt what is the brand name of the gadget sitting upon Gavin Haverstick tripod which he then attaches the laser? Thanks for all you do!! Watched you from tracking in your apartment till you moved! Your journey continues with infectious enthusiasm!!! Love it.
Congrates COLT! Watching your VID right now :) George
Can't wait for more
Brilliant video. Many Thanks
Couple of things. First, I believe the reason Atmos folddown works is because the lack of hyper-compression on all the individual channels. I have had many a mix destroyed by mastering engineers over the years making it loud. Second, mastering engineers will find a way to introduce hyper-compression to Atmos mixes, thus bringing us back to this stupid loudness wars. Okay, that is all, continue on.
In regards to LFE, I dont know if it helps, but in film, its purpose for us is really for a Low Effect. after all you expect that the whole monitoring is full bandwith. so its less of an extension but more dedicated channel, not as a subs, but as a separate channel so that you dont cram the same subs all in the same speaker channel. Going with that, it makes me think that the use case should be relativly the same. not an always on thing, but as a real LFE, where moments need that extra effect on the low end. Im not sure though if thats how its gonna be in music.
I get that atmos is probably awesome. The problem with it is that most people cannot afford the setup the ways it’s supposed to be enjoyed. I may be wrong and if I am, well I can say good bye to my savings.
I filmed this video just to try to help educate. I hope it helps! th-cam.com/video/9-frNKM5130/w-d-xo.htmlsi=7PsoByS3yZgrxrTL
Colt, the number one thing you did NOT address in that video was the COST OF ENTRY for producers, artists, and engineers. You danced right around it and only talked about cost of entry from the perspective of the listener, which was so purposeful and disingenuous. Your story was an inspiration to me colt. You made it mixing big records out of a tiny apartment room with relatively minimal setup. Now you are trying to silence and make a fool out of anyone critical of this massive power grab by the industry. This channel used to be cool now it’s just a corporate advertising page. So sad.
Careful with size, if you use size just know that it will sound more mono in the binaural render. Not great for important information in the mix
Totally agree with how people pushing their opinions without you hearing their mixes is not helpful… although from / few years experience working in immersive music but more in post, I feel comfortable telling you things that I consistently use coz they work for me. Try them if you like :)
Another interesting thing that seems to work really well is because we experience/associate height as literal higher frequency, things that are naturally more on high end spectrum translate when place above.
This is also why it’s less important for height channels to be full range. I like to think of lfe as the ground and the height as higher end with everything in between (ear level speakers) being full range.
Things like shakers, synths, other little percussive things or fx work in heights.
I also like to think of pairs of speakers as acoustic spaces within a room that interact with the mix in different ways.
For example, I use the sides with a short bright reverb… the rears with a longer darker reverb. This lends itself to how the speakers already sound based on how our ears hear them from their positions which also helps in translation coz I am using the them placements as they occur in nature.
Heaps more things to cover but those are some really interesting ones I thought you might enjoy exploring :)
More elitist nonsense. Colts mixes are amazing, but that doesn’t mean he’s correct about everything. Im a hip-hop producer with several placements and briefly worked professionally as an engineer. Most of my mixes probably don’t hold a candle to his, but that means we can’t possibly have an opinion on something? This Atmos thing is really bringing out the gatekeepers and sellouts lol. All I see is a bunch of people making excuses for why these mixes sound so bad and why the cost of entry is so high and impractical for every day use.
Great video.
Lots of interesting information.
When i was doing the enginears course for Dolby certification one of the things they stressed was the size parameter and to never really go past 7
I’m doing it on headphones because i don’t have an actual Atmos rig.
As for my panning i stay away from the Dolby panner. I find the pro tools panner is just cleaner to use.
The most useful piece of advice and colt please let me know your take was panning. From to back panning is awesome. Side to side panning be mindful about how far in you come in to the center as there could be a momentary cancellation depending how and what you pan.
Because there is no mix buss like you said. Clipping is your friend on individual tracks.
Probably the most important is that the songs main elements like kick snare bass and vocals should mostly be left and right speakers. And should sound like the reference. Then the rest of the stuff you can place it in the location in the binaural.
Printing stems do it through the master chain if you can!
Keeping everything in near is interesting. I might have to try that. In the enginears class they had near/mid/far objects and those tracks correspond to the binaural plugin but that it really doesn’t matter when it’s coming out of the speakers but it does matter in the headphones. From my understanding that means that the mix will bounce and play back on the speakers correctly but that if the binaural plugin isn’t corresponding to the objects it might sound weird on the headphones. So if you are going to place something on the side speakers it should be mid corresponding in the binaural. But again i don’t really understand the why but i have just been doing it. In my session template i have objects that are near/mid/far. And when i import the stems i start dumping on the objects but i make those near/mid/far decisions early on as im going through the stems. From there the panning corresponds to those. So if i chose something as mid it would be panned to those specific speakers. But all near object kinda makes sense to. Ima try it next time. I think it only matters in my case because i mix Dolby on headphones!
No center!!! Yes! Lfe channel - a little goes a long way!!
Maybe one day the Dolby mix will come first and then we just do stereo rerenders and send that to mastering!!!
Thanks colt. Great vid!!
I'm trying to learn a lot about atmos, and you are giving really good information in your channel. Thanks for that!
Despite I don't have my atmos room yet, I'm listening to some music with headphones on Tidal. I made a playlist with the atmos and stereo version of each song to compare feelings. Of course just the binaural listening, but the most important for the listener, as almost nobody will have a real room for this.
I've been listening to the songs you mention here by Halsey and Harry Styles. And I've found that I don't like them as much as the stereo mastered versions. In Daydreaming, there are some elements on the left channel that are even louder than the main vocals...
I have doubts with this new atmos mixes in music, and I thought I was about to resolve them... but still there!
But I think it depends on the genre. I have no doubt about Jazz or Classical, so I'm still excited to try some mixes in those styles.
Keep with this amazing content on the channel! 👏
Thanks for Sherring ......... I am also excited to be in this proces..building my one Dolby Atmos Room with 9.2.6 With RME Fireface UFXIII...... and the other needed gear...... . looking forward to be where Y are ..... but it takes time and money to go there..... Best frem Denmark DK J
Enjoy the journey, we are virtually!!!
I think what will be interesting given the two sides to build or rent Atmos rooms when needed, verses your total cost vs ROI and use case for your work.
I think a whole lot of people are going to get their mixes roughed out in headphones, and then rent a space like this to do all of their checks before releasing the album
Just look at yourselves and what you’re actually saying. Yeah, let me go RENT A F*CKING ROOM for the day so I can make sure my mix doesn’t sound like dog water 😂. Your massive investment and corporate sponsorships have caused you to put the blinders on dude
Tell me you have no idea how half the industry works without telling me you have no idea LMAO! So many of the best mixers are already doing just this. They get the mix roughed out in headphones, and then they go to an Atmos studio to quality check it. This is an extremely common practice that’s been happening for years already. Just because you’re uninformed doesn’t mean you have to be a dick lol
@@hockeytalk6084 I have been following Atmos for several years to see if in fact it becomes a deliverable to clients along with a stereo version, like Quad and other types from the past. The thought of mixing in stereo, then taking stems to mix in atmos at a rental space has been on a lot of mixers minds. I don’t think you can rent for a day and magically do it. I think you have to spend time at it to create what is needed. Either way if we see Colt has a Reverb sale in the end, we will have our answer.
Yup. Same experience
I've asked on PDP channel but had no luck in getting an answer. I'm genuinely interested.
I'm a bit lost - how do you approach an atmos mix for a record with, for example - 1 guitar track and 1 vocal track?
Wouldn't 'forced' atmos hinder a creative process? Requiring an adoption of a format that does not benefit your art-form?
Thanks!
It’s a good question, if I was mixing a single vocal/guitar in Atmos, I would spread the effects around the room, however, subtle they may be, and keep the vocal near the front, and the guitar in the sides. You can still create an incredibly immersive experience with just a couple instruments. That said, I don’t remember the last time I did a song with just one instrument and a vocal. The smallest sessions I work on are usually 60 or 70 tracks, and the vast majority are well over 100.
@@ColtCapperrune Because this is an ATMOS discussion I have to highlight that I have no intention of being stubborn or rude.
My thinking is that as an artist I would like to avoid adding tracks to my record, only to fit the atmos format.
Track I had in mind for a 1 guitar / 1 vocal set-up is 'Oliver Anthony - Rich Men North Of Richmond'
This is where I'm getting a gut wrenching feeling, when instead of just releasing my creations, I'd be forced to think about atmos mix.
I think this song should always come first. No matter what. If a single guitar/vocal is what your artistic vision is, and that’s what you should do, regardless of the format.
ATMOS is awesome as a possibility. ATMOS being forced is where people are taking issue.
With atmos being a requirement, how can a song come first?
That seems to be at the core of the disagreement.
@PanAndrzai Sorry we didn't reply your original question - we don't check our comments every day as we're quite busy but I've now replied and given my thoughts on your question! -James
Great vid Colt, looking forward to your tuning video. If youve not already looked at them, Panning wise check out 'Cargo Cult' Spanner (and Slapper) some of 'Sound Particles' Plug ins are great for panning...more $$$ though Doh :) As well as 7th heaven you mentioned, Liquid sonics Cinematic rooms for a multichannel reverb is fantastic/Izotope Stratus and symphony 3D as well..some sort of upmixer is very useful as well, Nugen Halo 3D or Penteo Pro + are both great.
If you use the external Dolby Renderer you do not need to 'print' the automation. No good for me as I need to tun my multichannel Dirac room correction which I can only do within Pro Tools. So I feel your pain.
Atmos sounds like torture. Best of luck with it! 😅
Really liked this video, I’ve been messing with Atmos to troubleshoot customer’s issues. Video left me with a couple of questions: Would it have been easier to work from the original project rather than stems, to avoid having to ‘uncarve’ parts? Why clippers rather than compression?
Only take advice from people who's results you enjoy!
I have never experienced atmos but I’m very intrigued by the creative potential of it!
What would you recommend for someone wanting to get into atmos?
Honestly, get yourself some AirPod Max, and logic or ProTools. You will need to download an extra piece of software from audio movers to listen to the pro tools session in real time on AirPods. And then just print stems from a mix you like, and start playing around with it in headphones. Go visit a couple studios that have an Atmos set up, if you’re confident in it, bring one of your mixes. Just play around in the format, and start experimenting. Definitely do all of the above before you purchase 15 speakers.
@@ColtCapperrune Agree, but be carefull about Logic. Many report that Logic dosent work properly in Atmos. Its also about Logic not being updated and no one realy know what Appel is going to do with Logic. Studio One and Cubas/Nuendo ar much better and safer alternatives.
But, before all of that, you HAVE to listen to a properly setup 7/9.1.4 system. Headpones may give you 40% of the real thing and sometimes that may be enough for listening :-)
Get a loan for $100,000 and a John Deere excavator and get to work buddy
Heights are usually supposed to aim to go slightly over your head. If you imagine a 3-seat couch, draw an “X” over it with your head at the center, in a 2D plane. The heights should aim at either their opposite corner or directly at your head. Play with this until you find something you like.
With speakers designed like yours, they really should be pointed directly at your head. If they’re not, you risk cresting a hole in the FR at the crossover point of the speakers. This is not something you should EQ for. If you do, you will detrimentally affect the off axis response. So, best practice is not to try and EQ an issue like that. Fix with proper aiming.
Do you know about Dolby Atmos room tuning being diferant than stereo tuning? There's a 2.8 dBish shelf boost at around 80Hz and a 2.5ish shelf cut around 4-5k. Both with differing slopes (they are just rough numbers too, so don't go by them, just wanted to make you aware in case you were unaware).
Edit: NVM you talked about tuning right after I typed it lol...
The new 3D TV coming fast...
th-cam.com/video/9-frNKM5130/w-d-xo.htmlsi=HkUT8jMQoh0i-eUQ
See now, he just spams a link to his original video where he skimmed over everyone’s legitimate criticisms and gaslit everybody lol. Doesn’t even address cost of entry in the video. Nobody is complaining about how we “hear with 2 ears”. They are complaining because it sounds bad and cost $100,000 and a home renovation. You 100% lost me over this colt
One of my favorite albums to reference for Dolby Atmos is Taylor Swift’s Folklore. Super well done IMO (especially considering Atmos was brand new when the album came out). I really want to know who was behind it.
Coming from Surround mixing for film, I feel like
the general guide is still the same even if its music( Atmos is still a kind of surround system anyway) that Its really less about the panning and movement. People focus to much on that. But really its where you can make much cleaner Stereo, wiith a definite Center, then everything about the SRs are just shaping the space. instead of the faux space using reverb, now you have discrete channel to place a space. What makes Atmos great really has less to do with pannings or hearing movement cause it takes too much attention (unless necessary for the project) if people starts thnking now then can create a clearer space, with definite LCR, I think surround mixing will be less complicated.
I remember my seniors before telling me to keep those movement really tight as it becomes to big and distracting in theater, and that all those SRs are just nothing but support for the LCR. if anything Atmos really just make sense in headphones for one thing and on thing only. And thats ATMOS creates a true stereo for headphones with a definite center instead of a phantom center.
Almost everyone at the Immersive mix event in Nashville revealed that they don't use the center speaker much for music.
Are you able to disable the Atmos whenever you want and just use a pair of those monitors in a traditional way?
Hey brother as someone who is in the process of building an atomos room, I would love to know your Stem process, What do you want to see? How many groups? Treated untreated etc I know your going to be evolving on this journey but would be nice to see what your using now? and whats a safe amount of stems to have and or provide. Thanks man Keep it up
That will likely be a video that goes on the second channel, so be sure to subscribe over there!
Considering the center channel it's not that used in music production purposes, do you see crazy buying a different speaker from your mains for the center channel? for example a ST6 instead of another Trio11 or Trio6? I worry about phase relationship being a significant different in size, but could be significantly less money.
Make a polycarbonate diffuser panel to fit your window which will still let daylight through.
big like from "ISRAEL" !!
Great video Colt and awesome explanation of Atmos's inner workings, in one of your earlier videos you were exploring the stereo verses Atmos and the future of both, I am curious now you're feeling on how long till the streaming services will only except Atmos mixes, that was a big concern, I heard you use words like amazing, and unbelievable in this video, how will you be able to do just a stereo mix now, your very emotion said that stereo doesn't even compare, just wondering how you feel now? I personally don't see how streaming services will allow in inferior plan old 2 trak mix when there is BAM to be had out there!!!
great video Colt! what cans are you using to evaluate the translation?
Thanks! AirPod Max and AirPod pro
@@ColtCapperrune Thanks!
Yep, yep, and YEP!
I still say Atmos is a flash in the pan and all those extra speakers are going to be on facebook marketplace in about a year from now 😂
I made this video just for you 😜
th-cam.com/video/9-frNKM5130/w-d-xo.htmlsi=uRQMlXXN9dhrTmog
We saw the video Colt. You went for the low hanging fruit and didn’t actually respond to any of our legitimate criticisms. Whatever floats your boat, man. Just disappointing what this channel has become.
@@hockeytalk6084 I recommend reading the book Immersive Sound The Art and Science of Binaural and Multi-Channel Audio. There is a chapter about listener preference and overall research on how listeners respond to different formats. This book contains a lot of info from real research and explains a lot of stuff related to immersive sound, including binaural headphone listening. This book might answer a lot of questions and in general give a better understanding about immersive sound.
@@hockeytalk6084 My thoughts exactly. Juggling around difficult questions only brings doubt.
And Colt... pacing the link to the other yt video as your reply? It will result just in a frustration buildup. People will end up as red as PDP's Mark in the last live stream :D
@Dutch I agree. I’ve liked and listened to colt for a long time but the way he gaslit us over this made me snap lol. He is literally just schilling for these massive corporations at this point. Just disappointing more than anything
Have you checked out any of Steven Wilson's surround mixes? And Elliot Scheiner's remix of Porcupine Tree's "In Absentia"? I think those are 5.1 and not sure if there are any in Atmos.
Hey Colt, awesome video! You should also check out the mix on Halsey’s song “Not Afraid Anymore” it is a Atmos mix as well and it’s pretty solid.
Andrew Scheps said kind of the same, he hates how snares, kicks, basses, vocals or basically anything sounds like in the center speaker. It's for dialogue in movies, the phantom center just sounds much better for music.
I have heard this, but some things just sound so prominent with kicks and snares of raw drums!! My favorite tracks by The 1975 on their self titled album have kick, snare, and bass, with minor vocals of any sorts in the center speaker. I do agree it's good to use to free up space if you need something more prominent, but never all at the same time, in my opinion.
You are definitely one of the GOAT Colt! Especially of our time, this day in age. Your a real throughbread mf! Love ya man! No Diddy. 😂
i wonder how manage the perseption of the mono and sides information due to the extra space in the ambiosonics
Wait Mike Millor passed did you say? When was this how did I miss it?
RIP MR Millor then.
Yes he mixed the Harry's House album.
I'd love to hear it fully in Atmos on an Altitude 32.
I listened to the 2 part interview Sweet Water did with him after the class.
Man I wish I'd been there for the class. Though I use Reaper since I'm blind.
Interesting the only thing In the bed channal is the bass.
How do I find the mike miller playlist? I have been looking but I am not able to find it.
music.apple.com/us/playlist/mike-miller-the-engineers/pl.ee8e89ea04994226aeb0fb58388dbd7e
@@ColtCapperrune You are amazing, thanks! Keep these atmos vids coming! The info on how to do things properly is much much needed!!
Does Atmos mixing require all tracks to be in mono so you can place them where you want? If stereo tracks are sent, say, of an electric guitar with stereo delay, would that not work for mixing in Atmos?
Stereo stems are actually the preferred way of mixing. However, in that case, I personally would want the guitar track in stereo, completely dry, and a stereo print of just the effects at 100% wet. Because one of the coolest things is putting the effects in a different spot from the dry instrument
@@ColtCapperrune Thank you Colt. Have you tried your hand at cinematic/orchestral mixing?
so in atmos do you still use things like drum busses? would love to see how that works. great video :)
RIP ...
will the Logic Pro fan get some atmosphere video from you
Unfortunately, no, I’ve never been a logic user. But as with all of my content, I try to speak in principles, so it will still apply to any DAW, or genre
If you’re a fan of Mike then I see DW FEARN gear in your future.
I would love to have some pre’s
one day, even if they’re red 😊
They make truly amazing stuff
Merci à Michael G Wagner, c'est grâce à lui que je suis là !!!!!!! Good job !
Center channel is for vibro slap, and nothing else.
I can dig it
Could you do a video or even reply to this comment on how to reference Dolby Atmos mixes?
I work in a post production facility - actually one of the few Dolby premiere facilities but for whatever reason, they don’t have the machines setup to playback from Apple Music. I’d love to be able to download a few Atmos mixes - drop them in a pro tools session so that I can listen to some banging Atmos mixes in here. We do all film work in this location and it sounds incredible but everyday I’m just like gahhhh wish I could hear one music mix in this room.
Smith Curry! The best!
He is so good! I have him do just about all the Pedal Steel, lap, Steele, and Dobro in my productions
Hey Colt, what program software do you use to edit your videos? 😊
Darkside of the moon in Atmos blue my mind.
My biggest gripe about atmos… At least up to this point in time, ive not heard an atmos mix that folds down to stereo that can compete with the actual stereo mix. Soooooooo many people listening on AirPods etc ask ‘why does this song sound so weird?” And it’s the playing the atmos mix on stereo phones w the player set to atmos. That’s the biggest issue i find with atmos, you have a top notch mixer (spike stent, serban etc) mixing the stereo mix and it killing, then a whole other mixer gets stems and does a completely different mix and its just not even close, and a lot of the times the consumer is being fed the atmos mix on a stereo peripheral and thats the impression they get of the song, and the mix and talents that the 6-8k was spent getting, doesn’t even get to the ears theyre supposed to
That’s a fair complaint.
your pro tools looks so different than mine, i love thost atmos speakers. suggestions for beginner studio speakers? rn im just using my seinheiser headphones
Don' t fall in that trap! If u have tons of money ok, do it for ur ego! But 95 % of the people listen on stereo systems or normal headphones. So for what is that? For nothing!
@@michaelleitner4334 bro chill lol
@@garrettsmith2592 i chill always, its an advice
Uh, you could have done it with minimal budget and a quick organic workflow and proper mastering with the Fiedler Audio Atmos Suite!! On headphones!! Because Atmos is consumed with headphones anyways !!! 😎🖖🏼
where how and why do we listen to atmos mixes?
In a fancy house on the hill 💸
Listening to John Lennon -
Working Class Hero 😂
It’s on by default on everyone’s iPhone, and on Apple Music. I filmed a video going over a bunch of of this. th-cam.com/video/9-frNKM5130/w-d-xo.htmlsi=7PsoByS3yZgrxrTL
@@Chaos-Dynamics i was looking for a genuine answer, thanks for contributing nothing of value
@@ColtCapperrune i have nothing apple so this probably doesn’t apply to many of us non-apple users but ill watch the video thanks
Colt, lets talk atmos architecture and workflow sometime
Shoot me a message on IG 🤘🏻
@@ColtCapperrune sent!
Can someone tell me what chair that is? Does it have suspension? I have back issues