A bit of hand forging to get the ignot into square profile would have gone a long way to making the process smoother. When you see "fins" on the copper after going through the rolling mill they should be filed off. Making sure the copper was clean and "bright" before going into the casting dish is always a good idea as well. Copper can be a bit tricky, especially when you don't know what other impurities might be in it. High grade electrical wire c101 or c102, oxygen free is the best bet short of buying jewelry grade copper grain from a metal refiner.
Hey thanks for taking the time to make a great video. I love working with copper and have a lot of scraps. I wondered about doing this. Good to see someone else do it first!
Pull it through a hole slot plate with a pull bench to get a thread to your preferred diameter. Cold pulling will get you to compact the atomic structure without the problem of breaking it (forces from all sides vs forces from up and under). Ex goldsmith here ;)
I would think quenching it while it's still hot from annealing would be counter-productive. I mean, quenching metal like that is what they do to harden it. While letting it cool down slowly would take a lot of time, wouldn't that keep it more malleable?
yes and no. This worked well for us especially when students only have an hour a day in the shop. This rolling mill can only take cold metals and it worked great for what we did with students.
@@WeBuildStuff It's a nice mill. I've got a cheap one and even at it's widest setting it won't take anything that big. I also managed to crush one of the bearings on the rollers, so not very heavy duty. I can make out the name "Durston" on yours. Is there a model name or number?
Looks like you were shooting the video at night at the beginning because I saw lots of orbs going around you, I don't know if you hear noises at your place.
Dust floating lit up by the led flashlight on my phone camera. The only noises are from the old building. Nothing supernatural here. Check out Bob Gymlan's channel for cool cyptid content
Ideally we would wait more but the amount of time that would take makes it unreasonable to wait every time we anneal it. With material like this we haven't seen a huge difference since we are work hardening it anyways everytime we pass it through the rolling mill.
Nice video, I just got a rolling mill this week, and I too will need a spot to house the roller, I'm thinking of using a tall metal stool for a base, just about 2.5-3ft tall. Even has holes on the seat to bolt down to... A + Imo.
Thank you for this instructional video. The rolling mill should be more stable as well. You will need to add 2 more nuts to hold tight the rolling mill😊.
💚💚💚💚 bookmark/ notes : “ it’s a brick housse letting it all hang out , sewer drain bars under street that collect wipes / paper ( which further down has something that looks like drill bit size of the pipe near the treatment facility “ but def not a meal mill) , paper making rollers that flatten in sheets “ ….ect….tbc….-g-b, bot …..💚💚💚💚 bookmark/notes: what jewelry can do for a person …..ect….tbc…..-g-b, bot Ingot 🧱 Step down transformer ( compositor , knob slob )
I would recommend for larger wire projects, a wire ingot mold, and a draw plate for a more perfectly round wire. you can also make your own tubing by pulling a strip of the appropriate width metal through the draw plate.
Thanks for the tip! I had a draw plate and wire mold ordered online but after a month of waiting they emailed canceling the order for some silly reason. I just haven't ordered another one yet
a great and painfull job, nice tutorial borax help melting the ore, if you add some salt the impurities will fly, and your ore will not break each time you flaten it
Thumb up for this interesting video! One question. Is it necessary to start from a "cubic" ingot? Or could we skip a few steps starting from a longer and thinner ingot? I'm french by the way, sorry if my english is poor... and if the answer is in the video! Thanks.
If i had a mold that was longer and thinner that would be perfect. These are just the molds we have right now in the class. Next year I will try to order some more variery of molds to make different ingots
That was part of the learning I wanted my class to see when I made this video. It's good to show them both sides of the operation and how different types of metals react and/or crack quicker or slower depending on the pressure they are under. Thanks for watching.
This specific mill says not to roll hot material. The quench does a minimal harden. Most of the hardening happens during the rolling and it gets work hardened. This was also just an experiment that I filmed for some students
Temporary spot for it until a proper stand was made for the high school class. The mill gets put away when not in use so irresponsible people don't wreck it.
No but we used it for fun and experimenting. Half of the time that is what builds more experience for students is trying out different materials and seeing what can happen
As a building engineer bro I would tell you don’t use those shark bites man and all the plumbers I have talk to say the same thing. Those shark bites over time get lose and start to leak. I’ve heard a plumber call them cute lol
Most jewelry rolling mills have case hardened rollers which is not good for hot rolling. Plus as soon as you start rolling your metal will loose heat pretty quick. You could aneal and let it air cool before passing through but it will take a lot of time. To save time we would quench and then roll. Repeat after a few passes. The material we were using stays pretty malleable up to 2-3 passes before we needed to heat it up again
The quenching is because we dont have a lot of time in class. It is an extra step and we would reheat after every few rolls. I've only started experimenting with this. We made lots of rings this year with this method out of lots of types of materials
@@emonsahariar9292 oh I understand your original question now. This video was honestly all an experiment. I am by no means an expert with rolling mills but would totally try that
These types of rolling mills use case hardened rollers which are not ideal for "hot rolling" metal like you might see with industrial metals. Cold rolling also gives a nicer surface finish.
You should let the metal come to room temp, no quenching. Or at least, wait 2mn or 3 before quenching. That will solve the cracking that is due to internal shock of rapid temp change.
There are many different types and sizes. We bought a heavier duty one to handle the odd teenage overuse/abuse. You can find economy style ones that can still handle hobby style work. I've seen many between $500-2500 CAD. I have since moved to a different school so I do not remember the exact size shown in this video. Oirs was a Durston Rolling Mill made in England. lacywest.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=43_115
@@WeBuildStuff Ok. But can you roll it while still hot? In another mill that can be used while hot? I’ve been planning to roll out sheet strips of about 0.5mm thick for a project where I need cheaper source of copper strips 0.5mm by 20mm wide.
@@hamed100 the rolling mill i used is not recommended for hot rolling due to the type of metal it is made from. But I'm sure you can get the right type rolling mill if you specify that as a requirement for yourself
@@WeBuildStuff Yes. I think I’m going to build a rolling mill suitable for hot rolling. Do you think it would be a good idea to have drilled water cooling channels in the rollers? Or can I sprinkle the coolant onto the rollers every now and then?
We're making a pedestal that will be bolted to the floor. We didn't have a space to install it permanently at the time. I cringe when watching those parts of the video! Haha
I highly recommend properly securing roller so it doesn't move about when rolling wire thru will improve the wire rolling. Cracking is cause by impurities in metal, re-smelter metal, add alloy. Cracking and edges is rushing the wire thru smaller the guage before its ready for that size.
I think I misunderstood your version of anealling. When you quench it hardens. When you aneal you let it come to temp softly or naturally. Think that might be why you were seeing so many cracks. Try heating it and not quenching.
The quenching is because of the time constraints we have in the class and it teaches them to use the torch. It may not be industry standard but the goal is the end experience for the students 😁
We Build Stuff rofl 🤣 it may not be industry standard. Time constraints or not you’re telling them they are softening the metal when in fact they are hardening it. How did that make you feel when you had to rework that a cpl times and still got moderate results with cracking? Do ya think that’s gonna ignite passion in a would be metal worker? Not to mention make em look stupid on a job later. Good luck bo, but you alluded to your knowledge level and requested guidance in your last vid. But advice, much like opinions, thumbs and a**holes, almost everybody’s got em, what you doing w em...up to you. Good luck again lol, surprised ya got that decent a pull.
@@Latrocinium086 no worries. A lot of the things we try involve experiments. This type of thing only makes up 1% of the course and most kids do have fun trying different metals. We do mostly welding and fabrication with only a few students doing art metal and jewelry stuff. We've done lots of different metals as well as alloys by mixing different types of materials. I know it hardens a bit but we were trying to avoid passing hot material through the rollers to prevent accidently student burns, etc. A lot of the courses involve students trying stuff out and having fun. This is more of a fun one to try 😁
@@Latrocinium086 also I'm always trying to learn new stuff. It's fun to film and share with my students both success and things that don't always work out. I usually take youtube comments and try to learn so I will be trying some different stuff out next time I have access to tools like this.
We Build Stuff Think it’s very valuable what you do. Went to a welding school myself, but these small things, annealing/hardening definitions might be important too. Got me a little hung up, thought I was gonna help. Lol None my beez wax...maybe consider muting the part where you solicit advice from the tubes. Probably would keep ppl like me from trolling ya. Good luck.
Yet you took the time to leave a comment on a video made for teenagers in a high school shop class... thanks for staying that long😉 hope you find something that works for you!
@@WeBuildStuff yes and play music in the background while your doing these it'd help the video. Plus try experimenting with alloying nickel and copper it'd help since nickel will help it with its "bendability" or flexibility
@@WeBuildStuff ha ha I can help with that just put instrumental music and I don't mean classic music it could be any music without lyrics. It helps with the video so that it doesn't sound baren Like it's a blank sheet of paper. People don't care what the music is really just something to fill the air when your fast forwarding.
I over stressed it while it was work hardened. When I re-heat it it softens the material and then I can pass through the rollers again. I screwed up and cracked it so I remelted it into a new ingot and re-rolled again. This was more just for fun and not the most efficient way. I made this video for my class so they could experiment with it
@@alibacanak8711 yes you typically need to anneal it to keep it soft. Rolling, hammering, etc will work harden metal so you need to keep an eye on it for cracks
Uncle Aldo recommended your video✌️
Oh god I never know it's that hard to make a wire using rolling mill. Kudos to you smiths who make things. No engineer can beat you.
A bit of hand forging to get the ignot into square profile would have gone a long way to making the process smoother. When you see "fins" on the copper after going through the rolling mill they should be filed off. Making sure the copper was clean and "bright" before going into the casting dish is always a good idea as well. Copper can be a bit tricky, especially when you don't know what other impurities might be in it. High grade electrical wire c101 or c102, oxygen free is the best bet short of buying jewelry grade copper grain from a metal refiner.
Hey thanks for taking the time to make a great video. I love working with copper and have a lot of scraps. I wondered about doing this. Good to see someone else do it first!
Recycling stuff or at least trying is fun!
Pull it through a hole slot plate with a pull bench to get a thread to your preferred diameter. Cold pulling will get you to compact the atomic structure without the problem of breaking it (forces from all sides vs forces from up and under). Ex goldsmith here ;)
That tool is on our wishlist! Every year we slowly buy more supplies and tools. High school budgets are limiting sometimes
I would think quenching it while it's still hot from annealing would be counter-productive. I mean, quenching metal like that is what they do to harden it. While letting it cool down slowly would take a lot of time, wouldn't that keep it more malleable?
yes and no. This worked well for us especially when students only have an hour a day in the shop. This rolling mill can only take cold metals and it worked great for what we did with students.
Steel hardens when quenched. Non-ferrous metals do not. They work harden.
@@WeBuildStuff It's a nice mill. I've got a cheap one and even at it's widest setting it won't take anything that big. I also managed to crush one of the bearings on the rollers, so not very heavy duty. I can make out the name "Durston" on yours. Is there a model name or number?
Looks like you were shooting the video at night at the beginning because I saw lots of orbs going around you, I don't know if you hear noises at your place.
Dust floating lit up by the led flashlight on my phone camera. The only noises are from the old building. Nothing supernatural here. Check out Bob Gymlan's channel for cool cyptid content
Well that's some WEIRD stuff
aldo Jones?
Yes, uncle aldo
I'm no expert, but aren't you supposed to let it cool slowly instead of quenching to keep it malleable?
Ideally we would wait more but the amount of time that would take makes it unreasonable to wait every time we anneal it. With material like this we haven't seen a huge difference since we are work hardening it anyways everytime we pass it through the rolling mill.
Michael Dreksler for gold, silver, copper and other non-ferrous metals (non magnetic) quenching them leaves them in thier softest possible state.
@@argentummoonjewellery3503 thanks for the tip!
@@argentummoonjewellery3503 💚💚💚💚 bookmark/notes: what jewelry can do for a person …..ect….tbc…..-g-b, bot
Aldo jones!
I saw you somewhere before
Haha
@@infamousshinkicker6924 haha im commenting quite alot xD
Nice video, I just got a rolling mill this week, and I too will need a spot to house the roller, I'm thinking of using a tall metal stool for a base, just about 2.5-3ft tall. Even has holes on the seat to bolt down to... A + Imo.
Ya i wish I had made a stand for this!
Thank you for this instructional video. The rolling mill should be more stable as well. You will need to add 2 more nuts to hold tight the rolling mill😊.
I wish i had a permanent place to install it. Due to our space this unfortunately is what we are stuck with until we can build a pedestal for it
💚💚💚💚 bookmark/ notes : “ it’s a brick housse letting it all hang out , sewer drain bars under street that collect wipes / paper ( which further down has something that looks like drill bit size of the pipe near the treatment facility “ but def not a meal mill) , paper making rollers that flatten in sheets “ ….ect….tbc….-g-b, bot …..💚💚💚💚 bookmark/notes: what jewelry can do for a person …..ect….tbc…..-g-b, bot
Ingot 🧱 Step down transformer ( compositor , knob slob )
Yeah, Mark Ruffalo huh?
I would recommend for larger wire projects, a wire ingot mold, and a draw plate for a more perfectly round wire.
you can also make your own tubing by pulling a strip of the appropriate width metal through the draw plate.
Thanks for the tip!
I had a draw plate and wire mold ordered online but after a month of waiting they emailed canceling the order for some silly reason. I just haven't ordered another one yet
a great and painfull job, nice tutorial
borax help melting the ore, if you add some salt the impurities will fly, and your ore will not break each time you flaten it
@dahmanus2002 what kind of salt?
Thumb up for this interesting video!
One question. Is it necessary to start from a "cubic" ingot? Or could we skip a few steps starting from a longer and thinner ingot?
I'm french by the way, sorry if my english is poor... and if the answer is in the video!
Thanks.
If i had a mold that was longer and thinner that would be perfect. These are just the molds we have right now in the class. Next year I will try to order some more variery of molds to make different ingots
@@WeBuildStuff All right. Thank you very much for your answer.
There are cylindrical ingot molds, but a rolling mill almost never rolls round shape.
It always comes out a little square imo.
I’m an American and your English is better than mine.
@@ApacheChief everybody is better than american
A suggestion for a next video. Just 2 words: virtual pinball. A dream I can't release cause I don't have the right tools and skills :_(
Hai uncle
I wish i had the space to build and keep a pinball machine! Maybe one day!!
started to smelt soda cans want to make wire for 3d printer
thanks for a way to do it
Try annealing the copper BEFORE it starts to crack.
That was part of the learning I wanted my class to see when I made this video. It's good to show them both sides of the operation and how different types of metals react and/or crack quicker or slower depending on the pressure they are under. Thanks for watching.
looks like the corner of your house is a portal, lots of orbs coming out, you recorded the video at night or you live very close to a cemetery.
The portal has saved me hours on my weekly commute!
What is that magical machine!!?? I want one please
thank you this was so helpful!
this video was very interesting and I've learnt some good stuff, thanks and keep it up. By the way, Nice beard bro!
Great video thank you so much for sharing
I hope my pipes aren’t that corroded when I replace them with pex. They could be, it is an old, old house.
Did you do make up?
I'm confused.. Wouldn't quenching it harden it??
This specific mill says not to roll hot material. The quench does a minimal harden. Most of the hardening happens during the rolling and it gets work hardened. This was also just an experiment that I filmed for some students
Is that an oxycetalyne torch? How can I make round wire would I use the same rolling mill? Thank for the video it's great!
Just need a mill with a round profile roller or something to pull your wire through to form it round
Why isn't the rolling mill secured more?
Temporary spot for it until a proper stand was made for the high school class. The mill gets put away when not in use so irresponsible people don't wreck it.
you can roll the copper when it hot and cool the mill rolls with oil-based lubricant( suds). it's much easier
Good tip!
In each pass you increase the temperature and roll again with gas, and does this increase oxidation and become more fragile?
It relaxes the copper to make it more malleable
Copper wire used for electrical is more than 99% pure, they don't use recycled copper for wire
No but we used it for fun and experimenting. Half of the time that is what builds more experience for students is trying out different materials and seeing what can happen
As a building engineer bro I would tell you don’t use those shark bites man and all the plumbers I have talk to say the same thing. Those shark bites over time get lose and start to leak. I’ve heard a plumber call them cute lol
House is getting torn down anyways 😉 for the tools I had at the time they did the trick. I do avoid them for bigger jobs now
Question: why can't you roll it while it's hot and malleable?
Most jewelry rolling mills have case hardened rollers which is not good for hot rolling. Plus as soon as you start rolling your metal will loose heat pretty quick.
You could aneal and let it air cool before passing through but it will take a lot of time.
To save time we would quench and then roll. Repeat after a few passes.
The material we were using stays pretty malleable up to 2-3 passes before we needed to heat it up again
@@WeBuildStuff Thank you!
I was lonely after watching it
Long Live The Uncle. 💜
Subbed ✌
Am I wrong in thinking that if you quench the metal that ruins the Annealing process? Maybe that’s just for steel?
For softer metal like this it doesnt make a huge difference. Just need to keep an eye on it so it doesn't crack
Why are you quenching after you heat it? Wouldn't the copper be more malleable if it is hot?
This stays pretty soft after quenching. Not much difference letting it air cool. Also makes it safer to handle for students
Very cool. Thank you!
Thanks for watching
why are you quenching in water? won't that make it brittle? just letting it slowly cool maybe better I think
The quenching is because we dont have a lot of time in class. It is an extra step and we would reheat after every few rolls. I've only started experimenting with this. We made lots of rings this year with this method out of lots of types of materials
So the metal won’t flatten? Is there a way to make a wide flat piece, vs a long wire? Thank you.
Use the flat part of the rollers. I used the grooves to create wire
Apply coolant every time you roll it?
It was hot. I don't want to burn myself!
@@WeBuildStuff really confused. If you apply coolant, you should ave less chance of hardening. That's what machinists do to prevent it.
@@emonsahariar9292 oh I understand your original question now. This video was honestly all an experiment. I am by no means an expert with rolling mills but would totally try that
It's some Wired stuff instead of Weird stuff this time.
Why wouldn't you feed it through the rollers while it's glowing orange, like hot rolling steel?
These types of rolling mills use case hardened rollers which are not ideal for "hot rolling" metal like you might see with industrial metals. Cold rolling also gives a nicer surface finish.
💚🤘🏿
Dunking it in water makes it harder and crystalizes the metal probably why it cracks at least that’s what I learned in welding
different metal reacts differently. A lot of this one was experimentation and trying out some new things
11:13 You mean half round?
probably :) Sometimes the words come out before my brain thinks them all out
wouldn't it be easier to use a draw plate?
That’s insane! How could that be cost-effective?
Literally just messing around with scrap material since one of my students was curious at the time if it would work with tools we already had
anealing, though temperring
You should let the metal come to room temp, no quenching. Or at least, wait 2mn or 3 before quenching. That will solve the cracking that is due to internal shock of rapid temp change.
What size rolling mill do I need what mill is in the video?
There are many different types and sizes. We bought a heavier duty one to handle the odd teenage overuse/abuse. You can find economy style ones that can still handle hobby style work.
I've seen many between $500-2500 CAD.
I have since moved to a different school so I do not remember the exact size shown in this video. Oirs was a Durston Rolling Mill made in England.
lacywest.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=43_115
Did/have you tried rolling it whilst hot? Wouldn't that help prevent any stress fractures
It is not recommended to roll hot with this mill
@@WeBuildStuff Ok. But can you roll it while still hot? In another mill that can be used while hot?
I’ve been planning to roll out sheet strips of about 0.5mm thick for a project where I need cheaper source of copper strips 0.5mm by 20mm wide.
@@hamed100 the rolling mill i used is not recommended for hot rolling due to the type of metal it is made from. But I'm sure you can get the right type rolling mill if you specify that as a requirement for yourself
@@WeBuildStuff Yes. I think I’m going to build a rolling mill suitable for hot rolling. Do you think it would be a good idea to have drilled water cooling channels in the rollers? Or can I sprinkle the coolant onto the rollers every now and then?
Sprinkling Cooling water on a hot roller is not a good idea bro
Making wire. Then makes a ring. Oh there’s no ring either wtf
Interesting...
Hail to the Uncle!
Any thing for aldo
ahhh wire
Get you school to cough up $3 for more bolts for that roller
We're making a pedestal that will be bolted to the floor. We didn't have a space to install it permanently at the time. I cringe when watching those parts of the video! Haha
Lol
I bet you do made you job harder
I highly recommend properly securing roller so it doesn't move about when rolling wire thru will improve the wire rolling. Cracking is cause by impurities in metal, re-smelter metal, add alloy. Cracking and edges is rushing the wire thru smaller the guage before its ready for that size.
Thank you for ignoring the previous comments where this was addressed ;)
Wouldn’t it be more effective to just make a longer cast, and then roll it out thinner so you don’t need to remelt it that many times.
Working with what we have. We didn't have a longer mold at the time.
How long did it take to melt it?
Ciao per fare una cosa del genere ci vuole un documento ho no
I think I misunderstood your version of anealling. When you quench it hardens. When you aneal you let it come to temp softly or naturally. Think that might be why you were seeing so many cracks. Try heating it and not quenching.
The quenching is because of the time constraints we have in the class and it teaches them to use the torch. It may not be industry standard but the goal is the end experience for the students 😁
We Build Stuff rofl 🤣 it may not be industry standard.
Time constraints or not you’re telling them they are softening the metal when in fact they are hardening it.
How did that make you feel when you had to rework that a cpl times and still got moderate results with cracking? Do ya think that’s gonna ignite passion in a would be metal worker? Not to mention make em look stupid on a job later.
Good luck bo, but you alluded to your knowledge level and requested guidance in your last vid. But advice, much like opinions, thumbs and a**holes, almost everybody’s got em, what you doing w em...up to you. Good luck again lol, surprised ya got that decent a pull.
@@Latrocinium086 no worries. A lot of the things we try involve experiments. This type of thing only makes up 1% of the course and most kids do have fun trying different metals. We do mostly welding and fabrication with only a few students doing art metal and jewelry stuff. We've done lots of different metals as well as alloys by mixing different types of materials. I know it hardens a bit but we were trying to avoid passing hot material through the rollers to prevent accidently student burns, etc. A lot of the courses involve students trying stuff out and having fun. This is more of a fun one to try 😁
@@Latrocinium086 also I'm always trying to learn new stuff. It's fun to film and share with my students both success and things that don't always work out. I usually take youtube comments and try to learn so I will be trying some different stuff out next time I have access to tools like this.
We Build Stuff Think it’s very valuable what you do. Went to a welding school myself, but these small things, annealing/hardening definitions might be important too. Got me a little hung up, thought I was gonna help. Lol None my beez wax...maybe consider muting the part where you solicit advice from the tubes. Probably would keep ppl like me from trolling ya. Good luck.
Aldo Jones
Copper spaghetti
2and a half minutes in and you are still repeating were and how you got the copper. I'll figure out how to make my own wire somewhere else.
Yet you took the time to leave a comment on a video made for teenagers in a high school shop class... thanks for staying that long😉 hope you find something that works for you!
Make it in a longer rounder shape like a long camping pike or Nail
Ya thats always an option!
@@WeBuildStuff yes and play music in the background while your doing these it'd help the video. Plus try experimenting with alloying nickel and copper it'd help since nickel will help it with its "bendability" or flexibility
@@vault101vaulttec5 yup. That isn't in this specific video. I stopped putting music in since I would usualy regret my music choice after a month
@@WeBuildStuff ha ha I can help with that just put instrumental music and I don't mean classic music it could be any music without lyrics. It helps with the video so that it doesn't sound baren Like it's a blank sheet of paper. People don't care what the music is really just something to fill the air when your fast forwarding.
Try sending it thru red hot
Id like to try that again. I didn't want to risk damaging the machine just in case
Aldo jones recc' this
why was it broken in the first time and not broken in the second time
I over stressed it while it was work hardened. When I re-heat it it softens the material and then I can pass through the rollers again. I screwed up and cracked it so I remelted it into a new ingot and re-rolled again.
This was more just for fun and not the most efficient way. I made this video for my class so they could experiment with it
@@WeBuildStuff so if we don't heat it enough, cracks will arise
@@alibacanak8711 yes you typically need to anneal it to keep it soft.
Rolling, hammering, etc will work harden metal so you need to keep an eye on it for cracks
@@WeBuildStuff thanks
Next time have music playing in your video
Especially when your fast forwarding through the video
Your rolling mill is unstable
Crap
Follow Indian technology 👍👍👍👍