+Jaebodiah ESC while it cant overcome the laws of physics, it creates a bigger buffer and add more safety. for example, a car that would roll at 70 without ESC, will only roll at 90 with ESC. in fact it should be pretty impossible to roll many "normal" cars with low center of mass on the street. different story if you take wheight out of an already quite high build toyota yaris or attempt the same thing in an SUV or Lorry....
+Jaebodiah It still would have been fine though. Same as if the stunt driver had steered into the skid like he knows he should do instead of intentionally leading it off into the grass for dramatic effect.
Nah 80 is like California high way speeds... ive seen tons of cars swerve out of lane because without it the car flips easily.. 80mph is what almost everyone goes here and many other states 70 too who drives 60 a vegan grandma?
Puy Lentil The Hilux is indestructible, it was drowned, set on fire, bashed with a wrecking ball, had a caravan dropped on it and buried in the rubble of a downed building and it still ran, a 70mph swerve wouldn't bother it in the slightest😉😆
So... we basically removed all of the interior seats and electronics that lower the center of gravity, add a top heavy roll cage, and then swerve at over 70 mph to see if it will roll. Hmmmmm
Ha ha ha ha rea that 👍😆😆i didn't think of that 👍the only thing i said was t the end he could had counter steer to not flip, he turned left, he knows to turn right, he fliped it for the show, 👍
I don't know if you've figured this out by now, but a lower center of gravity is beneficial and helps prevent roll overs. The cage Was not an actual "cage" but rather structural bars giving the roof support from the car's main frame. The weight that the bars add to the top of the car is less than the weight of a human head and does not drastically change the results. I can't say much about the tires, as they were most likely new like you stated, although it could be expected for many cars on the roads to still have thick tire treads and thus is still slightly applicable. All in all, any vehicle without stability control can be expected to roll at speeds exceeding even 50mph during a sharp swerve. Can't really credit Top Gear on their scientific accuracy, but it is generally true that Vehicle Stability Control drastically reduced the chances of uncontrolled swerving or roll overs resulting from a swerve, despite their possibly skewed results.
+Kunta Kinte Like putting a white coat on means you can magically interfere with the software in a way it wasn't designed to support. This isn't ... oh, it is a TV show. Well it isn't Macgyver or Mission Impossible and there's nothing magic about a technician. If the braking system was designed to always retain some 'smart' assistance then there's nothing you can do about it without bypassing the ABS pump. Which is a lot easier to prove too.
+weterman4320 Totaly agree. A car with ESC will do the same i think. Pretty strong the yaris anyway, for the size i mean. After two roll overs still openning doors and driving
Da Ca No, it was to test if it's safe to not use stability control. Of course if you try to tip a car, it will tip. They are saying it's not safe, but it is, if you dont try to tip the car.
In isolation it doesn't mean much, as it isn't tested against a car with ESC. So who knows if ESC could help under these circumstances? You might just as well have driven it into a skip at 80mph and said "this is what happens to a car without a DAB radio in a 80mph Collision.... When you buy your next car, insist on a DAB radio to prevent this from happening...." ESC is a lot like ABS and TCS. It can be helpful, yes, but bad systems can be very intrusive and potentially make things worse by preventing the car, or driver, doing things they otherwise could. It made a good case for race-prepping a car, though. That's something I'd pay for, although the tiny fuel tank wouldn't be much use on the morning commute!
Keep in mind, sometimes such as at 4:15 he turned the wheel as far to one side as it could go. I'm not sure how cars even with ESC could save such a wild overcorrection.
In a completely emergency situation, turning your wheel all the way to correct an oversteer is something that a normal driver and/or inexperienced driver will do.
Yeah, that looked more like an overdone scandinavian flick - but I guess most people don't drive thinking everyone else is trying to kill them, so it might be a fairly realistic example of panic induced overcorrection. ESC might have kept it straight & ploughed it into a line of traffic, what happens if doing what he did *was* the safest option?
so you show us what happens when there is no esc but dont show us the comparison of what happens when there is esc.... so what exactly was the point of this video? just to trash a car?
From last test nothing accurate can't be concluded because, car handling was not in good shape after crash. Suspension and and other parts took too much damage.
Kris S As with all such programs on commercial TV, it wasn't about science. It was about swaying the opinion of the viewers who don't know enough science to know better which is actually more than 60% of any given population thusly 60% of the voting and spending population. There's been a lot of western government pushes recently towards getting rid of older cars in favour of more economic and electronic versions which force you to take it to the dealer for repairs. Trust me, it's all money driven politics with agreements between companies to keep each other in on the profit and lock out everyone else. Top Gear/5th Gear.... All receive payments from the motor companies themselves. Anyways, what better way then to show on TV a car without ESC, more importantly a pre 2012 car, crashing hard thus visually implying that any pre-2012 car won't have ESC and thusly you'll end up dying a horrible death. Boom, 60% now thinking they'll look towards a more modern car for their next purchase. If you want the science dude, go out there and do science for yourself and see with your own eyes while taking your own measurements. Everything else, especially what you see on commercial TV, is either biased or pure propaganda.
Errr.. All you showed was a stunt driver purposely flipping a car :l A comparison would have been nice. If it could withstand everything he threw at it in attempting to roll it I would be impressed.
Not exactly, the ESC will stop the car getting side ways enough to allow it to flip or reduce the effectiveness of brakes. If the conditions are very wet or icy, the chances are even ESC wouldn't save your ass because the car would lose traction too quickly. Unless it's a very sophisticated ESC with extremely good tyres fitted!
Just like any driver-aid, it can only be good, when it works properly. Otherwise, it makes your car more dangerous. Failing ABS will lengthen your brakedistance e.g. I dont even want to imagine what a bad ESC can do to your car during an otherwise safe maneuver. I have pretty bad experiences with collision avoiding systems, where they hit the brake on a dead empty road, sometimes in the corner. These systems are not failproof enough to be trusted. You are better off paying for a driver training, and learning how to actually drive a car in tricky situations.
ESC *will* save you. i have done quite a number of laps on a wet Nurburgring in a bmw 320 equipped with ESC. i could tell that the car was being corrected by ESC in many corners. I could also see it on the dash (flashing ESC light). It's also *great* and confidence inspiring while driving on icy snowy roads. i will never ever buy a car without ESC again. Together with ABS it makes that car *quite* a lot safer. And if you want to hoon around in a controlled environment you can still switch the ESC off.
jfv65 Safety systems like ABS act as a crutch for poor or inexperienced drivers to avoid killing themselves and others. It takes the breaking control away from the driver and can *increase* stopping distance. I couldn't believe it when the brake pedal was suddenly yanked away from me while I was breaking hard for a horse in the road while driving a 2013 ford fiesta.. _I assume the ABS system released the breaks due to the left hand wheels losing traction momentarily on the mud and locking briefly. I have never experienced anything like that driving my older, non ABS, car._ ABS works by removing your brake control then applying pressure to the point in which the wheels lock, then releasing the brakes and repeating. Whereas by applying the right amount of breaking pressure you can apply the maximum braking force without locking the wheels at all! _Thus stopping you earlier_ ESC at least doesn't attempt to kill experienced drivers. Although you do lose some feel of the road. _ABS is seriously dangerous. Although it does save more lives than it takes._
2:46 Watch from here, with speed @ 0.25, I think it was a massive overreaction that caused the car to swerve off the road here. 1) He twists the steering wheel left just over *1/4* 2) He then turns the wheel to *3/4* right (1 full cycle from where it was on the left, just before) Had he just put a 1/4 right he probably would've saved it
This is really easy to do: If you look closer you will see when he corrects the car after the understeer, he jumps on the breaks. That makes an extra lateral force and the car flips. At 4:15 you see his leg applying the break pedal as soon as the car turns! At 2:06, first test, you see how the car understeers. Right and left, always understeers for a second or 1,5 seconds. On the final test the car understeers for 3 seconds to the left and when he corrects it, surprisingly, the outside wheel stops at 4:03 and the lateral G force causes the car to flip. End of story, bad advertisement. Dear Fifth Gear, select your 'details' people carefully!
You're extremely correct with all your observations, but Fifth Gear had all that happen on purpose. They wanted to show the car flipping for entertainment purposes, and the driver had the task of crashing the car. Fifth Gear wanted to encourage ESC in cars using this video because most drivers would not know the proper techniques for avoiding this. Think about it: A 60 year old mom driving her van who swerves on the highway into oncoming traffic to avoid an obstacle WILL stomp on her brakes AND probably not correct the slide. A car without ESC can flip in this case.
If you're 100% sure you're going to crash, you should just brake and let go of the steering wheel depending on your speed. So, yes, if you're going to crash, you'll use the brakes.
lesson learnt, fit a roll cage and harness and youl be safe in accidents, ESC wont effect a car when yanking the steering wheel a over 70 it just wont help
ESC or ESP is nowadays absolutely required, amazingly in a lot countries like Mexico even 2019 cars sadly dont have it when it started to be featured since 1995.
That's good old toyota reliability... have a bad crash at over 70+ mph and flip you back on your wheels and carry on your journey like nothings happened. Kid: "What was that grandma?" Gran: (smacks her lips) "think we hit lil pothole" Priceless!
i have got a '92 renault 19 without tc,esp, esc, and even without ABS!!! i can handle it without problem! i also had to manage a U turn on really wet road while braking (without ABS u have to know how to do! otherwise u go stright on!) and had no problems! i aslo had to make a sudden change of line at 100km/h in a heavy rainy day to avoid a car that lost control. had no problem! the problem is not the absence of electronics! the problems are the drivers! a good driver handles better a car without electronics! and there are less things that could have a failure!!
+HightLink I had the pleasure of attending the Volvo XC90 show at Alameda NAS when it was released in the US. One of the demonstrations was a swerve to avoid a plastic moose at very short range and 50mph with the stunt driver's foot to the floor. What it felt like was that it jammed the brakes on on the side we were rolling towards which snapped the car round, so while steering right and rolling left it applied a lot of left side brake and we slammed back over. It was the most violent thing I can ever remember doing in a car. Impossible to say what it really did, but that's how it felt.
+hfsyuSghf I can assure you that it won't stop you from going off the road ... There are plenty of horror crashed because people don't know how to drive and rely on these system too much. Tiff, of all people should know that ...
+cageordie That's exactly right. But many people just don't get this, they think that because their car is fitted with esc, the system will solve all of their problems.
+HightLink in theory it's designed to not let the car slide sideways too much on its axis which can be useful for novice drivers but can be dangerous if someone will try classic car control in dangerous situations with that thing on, but obviously knowing the cars limit and the drivers limit is 10 times more efficient than any electronic life saving gizmo fitted onto a car
I'm NEVER going to buy another used Yaris from these guys again... Driven by a demure elderly lady he said. Those scratches must have just been from resting the keys on the roof he said.
Bah! Actually, the car is very safe - it only flips if you do something really stupid like swerve suddenly when driving on the grass, or at illegally high speeds.
... I am usually rather impressed by 5th gear, but this is a tiny bit silly. I gather the UK now has a requirement of stability control? So this means Tiff will never again get in something as dangerous as an old Mini? Or an E-Type? OK, what about the Morgan 3 wheeler that he very nearly tipped over? What about the Reliant Robin - Does the law still allow them? And the car they did tip over - it had a roll cage in it, and belts and a safer fuel tank, but what about the suspension? Was that stock? Was it all new and in good nick? I appreciate that all you're trying to do is explain and demonstrate what ESC does, but this hasn't been thought out very well... Are all the cars of the last century that didn't have an electro-nanny now dangerous? This raises very many more questions than it answers...
This is showing how an average car before ESC became a requirement in every new car that is built will react in the case of an emergency swerve. What are you finding so difficult to understand about that?
ESC are for people not willing to spend more time or not willing to put effort to teach themselves to become a better driver. Driving is a skill. Learn how to drive safely first before getting a safer car. A mad driver in a super high tech car is not in any way safer than a skillful driver with an all manual system with no electronics.
Once upon a time people - well, some people - had a clue. Then came ABS and everybody had the brilliant thought that they could ride the ass of the car in front at 70MPH. Then came traction control and the same shitheads thought they could do the same in the snow. Back up cameras, why shoulder check? Cars that park themselves - why learn? Now they'll believe what? That they can play roulette with the steering wheel with a vibrator up their arse and all will be just wonderful. Maybe time to go the other way .. A big carton boxing glove punches you in the head in a parking lot fender bender, and the air bag packed with shrapnel weeds the rest out in a Darwinian fashion, leaving the roadways less congested for those who remember how to actually operate a vehicle.
+Super Jeepin "Safety conscious" has to mean more than relying on the equipment they've been sold as the safest yet. Although vehicles are safer now in many regards, they're being dummied down too much. in the day we learned to drive on ice and snow by doing donuts an a parking lot - but you know what? we did learn something. Where the limit was, what happens when you push past it, and how to bring it back. How to get stuck and unstuck, where the corners and the ends were, and when to simply slow the fuck down because the roads were extra shitty. Cars now attempt to "convince" the driver that every day is warm, dry, and sunny and two pedals makes everything peachy keen. And the majority of people actually believe it.
+Jim Vicious I've seen many people think that they're invincible because they have AWD with ESC and TC, most of those people are wrapped around a tree by a 90° corner because they entered at 100 km/h.
I remember back in the 90's when our moms would be like: "When you cross the street... check left; then right; then up... y'a know for cars without ESC rolling over..." It was a real safety concern.
Bar aesthetics and the windscreen, everything else stayed intact, despite two rollovers. That Yaris was drivable even post the second roll. It rolled and summersaulted back onto the tarmac and yet none of the tyres were damaged. Astonishing built quality, especially for what is a cheap car.
Prior to the ESP we KNEW that in an emergency like this you only should turn the steering to the opposite direction to save the car from rolling over..
In Canada and United States of America, we call it electronic stability program ( ESP ) and also have Traction Control (TC) and Antilock Braking System ( ABS ). Looks like the terminology differs slightly but is essentially has the same meaning.
This is one of my favorite channels indeed. Unfortunately the majority of car review channels does not focus on such contents and providing additional detailed information with regards to safety equipment installed on these vehicles along with Driver Assist systems. My channel Mind Fusion was created to fill this gap. It is as important to review these features before making a decision to purchase a new vehicle. I hope that helps!
I have seen a lot of people with lots of road driving experience more than 50k per year, but once you send them over a skid plate without TC or ESC they cant even catch the car. In these moments of shock (obstacle incoming at 70mph) everybody can make a mistake, so ESC can even save the live of an F1 driver. TIff did another video with cars fitted with ESC. You just cant get them to flick as hard even if you want.
***** Experience often does not equate to skill. Unless you're paying attention and actively working to improve your driving, you're not going to become a better driver. This is very well demonstrated by many people currently on America's roads. That being said, I agree that traction and stability control systems (if well programmed/designed) can be of assistance to even the very skilled driver as, even in situations where a skilled driver might outperform such a system, the reaction time of the system can be quicker than an unsuspecting driver. It's very similar to ABS (which can be outbraked but only if you are completely on top of your game at the very instant it's required -- a difficult feat as even the most alert drivers will occasionally suffer a lapse in concentration).
ESC is not for when you are on your best, super alert on a country road. If you spin off there, you can't drive and need to learn to judge the car/road/conditions and your ability better. It is for when you drive home late at night on the motorway, pouring with rain and two people have a crash close by and give you a nudge. That's where ESC keeps you away from the truck, because there isn't always room for the world's biggest powerslide.
This vsa already saved me from accident for sudden hard left turn avoiding a concrete barrier at speed of 80kph..this video demo is correct its very hard to maintain a path specially if you are in narrow roads.
ESC Is trash, I absolutely hate esc. This is over exaggerated to serious extremes, driving on donuts not reacting to save the car and well frankly swerving more than 2 lanes to show why you need esc.
ESC has never saved me. I drive everyday in sun/rain/or snow. I've driven in all conditions and have never needed ESC. It has messed up what I wanted to do and put my life at risk. You do not need ESC if you are a good driver. You however are a car, fuck that at most. Bring back the rotary's. I hate computer controlled cars, learn how to drive and you won't need baby assistance.
Mazda 6 No just stop talking, you have zero clue of anything about cars. If you have anything that has ESC it can be turned off in most cases. SUVs do not need it but the driver does. Due to high center of gravity, yes ESC is more likely to be used by shitty drivers. If you have any car control you do not need ESC. ESC was made because people are shit at driving. Body roll is caused by loose suspension and that is rather not present today, you had 1980s tech where they was no dampening or "comfort" was not possible in that time without having roll. Now days suspension is so advance that SUVs can corner tighter without body roll, they still need to slow due to high center of gravity, but do not need it. Also, ESC has absolutely nothing to do with body roll. There is zero connection other than it's on the car. Body roll is caused by lateral G's ESC is there to stop and apply the breaks to one side to prevent the car from going out of control. ESC is not to stop body roll.
holy crap, your stunt driver is weak. Didn't correct for the second slide on the 70mph test, and WAY over corrected on the 70mph+? really, come on now...
^ And that's the problem. Lack of driving ability. People have no interest in gaining experience. It's easy and lazy to just drive in straight lines all the time and take a slow turn here and there, never really pushing the limits of the car. Cars are mere appliances to 99% of people, and that's sad.
To be fair, I think they were aiming for a 'normal person' analogue. I know waaay to many drivers who wouldn't have the funniest of what to do in this case.
VSC, TCS, and TRAC (4 wheel drive traction control) in toyota's work amazing. Have a 4 runner that just blasts in the snow and ice. If your not careful it will make you overconfident in your driving.
A bit of polish and some new windows and we can sell that in to my country, after all, it was kept in the garage and only used by a old lady to go shopping occasionally. Can you guess the country?
well it didn't technically roll at 70 though did it. Because there was a lot of skidding and decelerating before it tipped on its roof in a wet grass field.
I was once driving in a 2001 Focus without ESC on an snowy road and wasn't even going fast (25-30mph maybe) and a dog jumped in front of me on the road. When I tried to avoid it, the car oversteered and I crashed into a barrier. I've done a winter driving course (when they teach you how to recover from a skid) just weeks before and even though I quickly reacted and turned the wheel into the opposite direction, I still totalled thr car. My next car was a 2005 Renault Laguna which had ESC and when I drove into an icy corner, the car began to oversteer again but ESC corrected it almost instantly so I managed to stay on the road. ESC probably wouldn't have saved this Yaris from rolling over (the driver was obviously an idiot), but it really helps if you suddenly drive over an unexpected icy patch on the road or if you need to avoid something very quickly and you don't have enough space to recover from oversteer. I think everyone should know how to recover from a skid manually, but electronic systems can make a lot of difference too.
I don't quite get it. I've owned quite a lot of cars without esc, and I have rolled only one of them, an Opel Olympia. I couldn't even roll any the rear engined Skodas! What have I done wrong? Or are modern cars simply so badly constructed, that they need those electronic gizmos to keep the wheels on the road?
Says not having ESC is bad - proves it by removing the entire interior of the car including the fuel tank and adding a roll cage to make it top heavy.. along with that making it heavier on the driver's side which is why he rolled the same way both times.
This is why I'm not a massive fan of tall cars with really high riding suspension, and that covers just about all old super minis and also things like the 306 as well. ESC or no ESC, a longer suspension travel in corners is going to give you a significant rolling moment. I always felt the body roll when taking a tight corner at 50+ in my Mk6 Fiesta, but now I have the lowest of the low family hatchbacks - a Civic - I've quite happily dominated the hills of Cornwall and Warminster and was never worried. That said, in these clips he was throwing the balance of the car one way then the other, without any ABS braking, for maximum drama.
That test did not show that a Yaris with ESC wouldn't have the same problem. ESC is not designed to prevent a spinout or rollover under the conditions shown in this video, but during moderate conditions.
I drive an ESC equipped Hino truck. it tries to kill me. When I accelerate turning at an intersection it thinks it is going to roll over. It kills power just when you need it, trying to merge into traffic. Technicians claim it is working fine. I switch it off when I remember.
my 1960 MG magnette doesn't have these new fangled controls. and I was traveling at 45mph. I whipped it back and forth, avoiding a collision with a car pulling into the roadway. I had that car up on two wheels. but the car doesn't come with anti roll bars. I guess that aided it from fighting me and keeping it's tires firmly on the ground, the best it could. if rubber doesn't meet the road, how can it get traction. like traction control in the rain. but speed adds factors in the mix. factors that the average driver in most cases don't or won't consider.
By far, the biggest surprise of this video is seeing a Yaris top 70mph.
It is possible, but takes a lot of accelerating in lower gears.
xD
Ha! I've had our 2007 YRS upto 170kms/h (105MPH) coming back from Bundaberg.
No it doesn't, it takes about half an hour in 5th speed foot to the floor :p
The 1.3 litre model will do just fine. The 1 litre model could probably get to 70mph, but you'd be deaf by then.
Pretty pointless if you're not going to test a car with ESC to compare the differences.
Indeed! I bet that even if that car had ESC it would still flip over at that speed. The average esc in an average car isn't that good haha
Frajmando sure
Hilux
th-cam.com/video/7-2UAfsbyZo/w-d-xo.html the episode aired with this clip preceding the one shown here.
I'd love to have seen the same test with a car WITH ESC. Take it up to 70 and yank the wheel back and forth...Curious to see how it'd fare.
Very similarly. It cannot overcome the laws of physics.
+Nicholas Scarff exactly what I was thinking
+Jaebodiah ESC while it cant overcome the laws of physics, it creates a bigger buffer and add more safety. for example, a car that would roll at 70 without ESC, will only roll at 90 with ESC. in fact it should be pretty impossible to roll many "normal" cars with low center of mass on the street. different story if you take wheight out of an already quite high build toyota yaris or attempt the same thing in an SUV or Lorry....
+Jaebodiah
Yeah, And he was really trying to flip it, Steering full left there and leaving it like that...
+Jaebodiah It still would have been fine though. Same as if the stunt driver had steered into the skid like he knows he should do instead of intentionally leading it off into the grass for dramatic effect.
do the same test with ESC we have nothing to compare it to all i learnt is how to flip a Yaris
+Troy Andrews exactly
"Thats what happens when you dont have esc" Nah thats what happens when you attempt a swerve at around 80 mph in a toyota yaris.
+Peter Rounce Small hatchbacks are actually the easiest cars to roll.
Nah 80 is like California high way speeds... ive seen tons of cars swerve out of lane because without it the car flips easily.. 80mph is what almost everyone goes here and many other states 70 too who drives 60 a vegan grandma?
You need to try a HiLux ;)
Puy Lentil
The Hilux is indestructible, it was drowned, set on fire, bashed with a wrecking ball, had a caravan dropped on it and buried in the rubble of a downed building and it still ran, a 70mph swerve wouldn't bother it in the slightest😉😆
Puy Lentil
I forgot they crashed it into a tree as well. ...
Is ESC fails, use CTRL+ALT+DELETE
i use alt+F4
I use Ctrl+Shift+Esc
CTRL+ALT+DELETE just gives a sign out option
Gabe adorno when i was a younger man, those 3 buttons hit twice would force a reboot.
zzz
So... we basically removed all of the interior seats and electronics that lower the center of gravity, add a top heavy roll cage, and then swerve at over 70 mph to see if it will roll. Hmmmmm
and drive it on this super sticky road probably with brand new tires which wont let it slip sideways... and then deduce that it trolls over.
Hahahaha
Ha ha ha ha rea that 👍😆😆i didn't think of that 👍the only thing i said was t the end he could had counter steer to not flip, he turned left, he knows to turn right, he fliped it for the show, 👍
Science!!!!
I don't know if you've figured this out by now, but a lower center of gravity is beneficial and helps prevent roll overs. The cage Was not an actual "cage" but rather structural bars giving the roof support from the car's main frame. The weight that the bars add to the top of the car is less than the weight of a human head and does not drastically change the results. I can't say much about the tires, as they were most likely new like you stated, although it could be expected for many cars on the roads to still have thick tire treads and thus is still slightly applicable. All in all, any vehicle without stability control can be expected to roll at speeds exceeding even 50mph during a sharp swerve. Can't really credit Top Gear on their scientific accuracy, but it is generally true that Vehicle Stability Control drastically reduced the chances of uncontrolled swerving or roll overs resulting from a swerve, despite their possibly skewed results.
A better test would have been to have a car with ESC and test it with it turned off (in the computer by technicians, so its FULLY off) vs turned on
+Kunta Kinte Like putting a white coat on means you can magically interfere with the software in a way it wasn't designed to support. This isn't ... oh, it is a TV show. Well it isn't Macgyver or Mission Impossible and there's nothing magic about a technician. If the braking system was designed to always retain some 'smart' assistance then there's nothing you can do about it without bypassing the ABS pump. Which is a lot easier to prove too.
cageordie ?
This would be great.
+Kunta Kinte the same episode that has this segment has such test: /watch?v=C4-Lbt8KHkw
KuntaKinte
If he turned the wheel only once at the end, he wouldn't have rolled. It looks like he did it on purpose, to make the car tip.
+weterman4320 Totaly agree. A car with ESC will do the same i think. Pretty strong the yaris anyway, for the size i mean. After two roll overs still openning doors and driving
+retroluminico It had a roll cage....
Da Ca No, it was to test if it's safe to not use stability control. Of course if you try to tip a car, it will tip. They are saying it's not safe, but it is, if you dont try to tip the car.
Da Ca Yea, he was. If you don't try to tip it, you probably wont tip.
weterman4320 and if you have ESP you definitely wont
In isolation it doesn't mean much, as it isn't tested against a car with ESC. So who knows if ESC could help under these circumstances?
You might just as well have driven it into a skip at 80mph and said "this is what happens to a car without a DAB radio in a 80mph Collision.... When you buy your next car, insist on a DAB radio to prevent this from happening...."
ESC is a lot like ABS and TCS. It can be helpful, yes, but bad systems can be very intrusive and potentially make things worse by preventing the car, or driver, doing things they otherwise could.
It made a good case for race-prepping a car, though. That's something I'd pay for, although the tiny fuel tank wouldn't be much use on the morning commute!
Keep in mind, sometimes such as at 4:15 he turned the wheel as far to one side as it could go. I'm not sure how cars even with ESC could save such a wild overcorrection.
this test simply SUCKS AND ISNT CORRECT. period(i guess). car lightened up in weight being more likely to roll over. and that correction though.
In a completely emergency situation, turning your wheel all the way to correct an oversteer is something that a normal driver and/or inexperienced driver will do.
***** but still, car is lightened up and center of gravity is rised by what they have done, not sure how cars even with ESC will handle this
In games FFB seems to make correcting very easy, though the fact that it turns like 270 degrees total might have a role in this.
Yeah, that looked more like an overdone scandinavian flick - but I guess most people don't drive thinking everyone else is trying to kill them, so it might be a fairly realistic example of panic induced overcorrection. ESC might have kept it straight & ploughed it into a line of traffic, what happens if doing what he did *was* the safest option?
so you show us what happens when there is no esc but dont show us the comparison of what happens when there is esc.... so what exactly was the point of this video? just to trash a car?
I doubt this is the full episode....
I was thinking the same thing
Fifth Gear Has The Stig's Talkative Cousin!
The stunt driver rolled the car over on purpose obviously...
radry100 iiiii
True
From last test nothing accurate can't be concluded because, car handling was not in good shape after crash. Suspension and and other parts took too much damage.
So what
the stig's rolling cousin
*they see me rollin*
No comparison is done in this video. Doesn't even tell us what what ESC is... *dislike*
A lot of people like me will already know but i think its real stupid they didn't tell us anyways, or show the same thing with a car with Esc enabled.
JorRob001 well I am not from Europe so I have no idea what it even does. I'd like to see it at work.
Kris S As with all such programs on commercial TV, it wasn't about science. It was about swaying the opinion of the viewers who don't know enough science to know better which is actually more than 60% of any given population thusly 60% of the voting and spending population. There's been a lot of western government pushes recently towards getting rid of older cars in favour of more economic and electronic versions which force you to take it to the dealer for repairs. Trust me, it's all money driven politics with agreements between companies to keep each other in on the profit and lock out everyone else. Top Gear/5th Gear.... All receive payments from the motor companies themselves.
Anyways, what better way then to show on TV a car without ESC, more importantly a pre 2012 car, crashing hard thus visually implying that any pre-2012 car won't have ESC and thusly you'll end up dying a horrible death. Boom, 60% now thinking they'll look towards a more modern car for their next purchase.
If you want the science dude, go out there and do science for yourself and see with your own eyes while taking your own measurements. Everything else, especially what you see on commercial TV, is either biased or pure propaganda.
Simon Wilson interesting. I suspected that actually; given what a pointless test this was, it concluded nothing.
Simon Wilson lol if I have learned anything from the myth busters, its that every test must be compared to something...
Achievement unlocked: "Do a barrel roll!"
+Europe Channel do you know what a barrel roll is?
+Europe Channel do you know what a barrel roll is?
+Europe Channel do you know what a barrel roll is?
Todds Boot-E Are you going to be a smartass and try and tell me?
+Europe Channel ...
Errr.. All you showed was a stunt driver purposely flipping a car :l
A comparison would have been nice. If it could withstand everything he threw at it in attempting to roll it I would be impressed.
I think ESC really shines in wet conditions rather than fast-speed roll overs. Still, better to have it than not.
Not exactly, the ESC will stop the car getting side ways enough to allow it to flip or reduce the effectiveness of brakes. If the conditions are very wet or icy, the chances are even ESC wouldn't save your ass because the car would lose traction too quickly. Unless it's a very sophisticated ESC with extremely good tyres fitted!
Just like any driver-aid, it can only be good, when it works properly. Otherwise, it makes your car more dangerous. Failing ABS will lengthen your brakedistance e.g.
I dont even want to imagine what a bad ESC can do to your car during an otherwise safe maneuver.
I have pretty bad experiences with collision avoiding systems, where they hit the brake on a dead empty road, sometimes in the corner.
These systems are not failproof enough to be trusted. You are better off paying for a driver training, and learning how to actually drive a car in tricky situations.
I wouldn't be quite so sure that ESC would save from that...
Yea it easily would
JorRob001 unless the ESC in that car was crud!
ESC *will* save you. i have done quite a number of laps on a wet Nurburgring in a bmw 320 equipped with ESC. i could tell that the car was being corrected by ESC in many corners. I could also see it on the dash (flashing ESC light). It's also *great* and confidence inspiring while driving on icy snowy roads.
i will never ever buy a car without ESC again. Together with ABS it makes that car *quite* a lot safer.
And if you want to hoon around in a controlled environment you can still switch the ESC off.
jfv65 have you had any accidents? in general?
jfv65 Safety systems like ABS act as a crutch for poor or inexperienced drivers to avoid killing themselves and others.
It takes the breaking control away from the driver and can *increase* stopping distance. I couldn't believe it when the brake pedal was suddenly yanked away from me while I was breaking hard for a horse in the road while driving a 2013 ford fiesta..
_I assume the ABS system released the breaks due to the left hand wheels losing traction momentarily on the mud and locking briefly. I have never experienced anything like that driving my older, non ABS, car._
ABS works by removing your brake control then applying pressure to the point in which the wheels lock, then releasing the brakes and repeating. Whereas by applying the right amount of breaking pressure you can apply the maximum braking force without locking the wheels at all!
_Thus stopping you earlier_
ESC at least doesn't attempt to kill experienced drivers. Although you do lose some feel of the road.
_ABS is seriously dangerous. Although it does save more lives than it takes._
2:46 Watch from here, with speed @ 0.25, I think it was a massive overreaction that caused the car to swerve off the road here.
1) He twists the steering wheel left just over *1/4*
2) He then turns the wheel to *3/4* right (1 full cycle from where it was on the left, just before)
Had he just put a 1/4 right he probably would've saved it
Top Gear would have done this so much better.
+donepearce Yes..mutch more funny.
+donepearce Yes..mutch more funny.
+Tony Valdez they would have probly atepmted a road trip to the strip and tried to flip it on the way anyways
+donepearce where are they now lol, Chris Harris cant even talk and drive and throws up when being driven by a woman racing driver.....
My car has no ESC or ABS or airbags or seat belts
No seat belts... funny
If it's a really old car, it wont have any.
or 2 wheels or an engine and you have to pedal.
Donald Trump 2K16 cool
عايز ايه يا معلم ؟
This is really easy to do:
If you look closer you will see when he corrects the car after the understeer, he jumps on the breaks. That makes an extra lateral force and the car flips.
At 4:15 you see his leg applying the break pedal as soon as the car turns!
At 2:06, first test, you see how the car understeers. Right and left, always understeers for a second or 1,5 seconds.
On the final test the car understeers for 3 seconds to the left and when he corrects it, surprisingly, the outside wheel stops at 4:03 and the lateral G force causes the car to flip.
End of story, bad advertisement. Dear Fifth Gear, select your 'details' people carefully!
You're extremely correct with all your observations, but Fifth Gear had all that happen on purpose. They wanted to show the car flipping for entertainment purposes, and the driver had the task of crashing the car. Fifth Gear wanted to encourage ESC in cars using this video because most drivers would not know the proper techniques for avoiding this. Think about it: A 60 year old mom driving her van who swerves on the highway into oncoming traffic to avoid an obstacle WILL stomp on her brakes AND probably not correct the slide. A car without ESC can flip in this case.
If you're 100% sure you're going to crash, you should just brake and let go of the steering wheel depending on your speed. So, yes, if you're going to crash, you'll use the brakes.
if you need this elettronic controls for your safe, don t drive anymore
I've never even driven a car with ESC, I can't believe I've lived this long!
The stability control failed on my 1000$ jag but now it’s much more entertaining to drive around corners
lesson learnt, fit a roll cage and harness and youl be safe in accidents, ESC wont effect a car when yanking the steering wheel a over 70 it just wont help
Looking at motorsport crashes....if they want people safe, the way is definitely: simple rollcage, 4 point harness, helmet and good training.
That Yaris is probably still trundling around some supermarket car park somewhere
Pointless test. There's no comparison to a car WITH esc. Also, cones would be needed to establish similar angle of turn resulting in roll-over.
ESC or ESP is nowadays absolutely required, amazingly in a lot countries like Mexico even 2019 cars sadly dont have it when it started to be featured since 1995.
This was lame. They never did the exact same experiment with ESC.
That's good old toyota reliability... have a bad crash at over 70+ mph and flip you back on your wheels and carry on your journey like nothings happened.
Kid: "What was that grandma?"
Gran: (smacks her lips) "think we hit lil pothole"
Priceless!
You could have called it 'Driving Without an MP3 radio'.
One of the toughest cars from the early 2000. I love my Yaris!
i have got a '92 renault 19 without tc,esp, esc, and even without ABS!!! i can handle it without problem! i also had to manage a U turn on really wet road while braking (without ABS u have to know how to do! otherwise u go stright on!) and had no problems! i aslo had to make a sudden change of line at 100km/h in a heavy rainy day to avoid a car that lost control. had no problem!
the problem is not the absence of electronics! the problems are the drivers! a good driver handles better a car without electronics! and there are less things that could have a failure!!
The ESP will stop your car from sliding, not from rolling... i think
+HightLink I had the pleasure of attending the Volvo XC90 show at Alameda NAS when it was released in the US. One of the demonstrations was a swerve to avoid a plastic moose at very short range and 50mph with the stunt driver's foot to the floor. What it felt like was that it jammed the brakes on on the side we were rolling towards which snapped the car round, so while steering right and rolling left it applied a lot of left side brake and we slammed back over. It was the most violent thing I can ever remember doing in a car. Impossible to say what it really did, but that's how it felt.
+hfsyuSghf I can assure you that it won't stop you from going off the road ... There are plenty of horror crashed because people don't know how to drive and rely on these system too much. Tiff, of all people should know that ...
+Nicholas Scarff In the end we are all subject to physics. If you stack enough energy in to the vehicle there is nothing that can save you.
+cageordie That's exactly right. But many people just don't get this, they think that because their car is fitted with esc, the system will solve all of their problems.
+HightLink in theory it's designed to not let the car slide sideways too much on its axis which can be useful for novice drivers but can be dangerous if someone will try classic car control in dangerous situations with that thing on, but obviously knowing the cars limit and the drivers limit is 10 times more efficient than any electronic life saving gizmo fitted onto a car
Without a side by side comparison this was pointless. We have always known it was possible to roll cars.
I'm NEVER going to buy another used Yaris from these guys again... Driven by a demure elderly lady he said. Those scratches must have just been from resting the keys on the roof he said.
It would have nice to see it done with the same car fitted with esc
Bah! Actually, the car is very safe - it only flips if you do something really stupid like swerve suddenly when driving on the grass, or at illegally high speeds.
... I am usually rather impressed by 5th gear, but this is a tiny bit silly. I gather the UK now has a requirement of stability control? So this means Tiff will never again get in something as dangerous as an old Mini? Or an E-Type? OK, what about the Morgan 3 wheeler that he very nearly tipped over? What about the Reliant Robin - Does the law still allow them? And the car they did tip over - it had a roll cage in it, and belts and a safer fuel tank, but what about the suspension? Was that stock? Was it all new and in good nick? I appreciate that all you're trying to do is explain and demonstrate what ESC does, but this hasn't been thought out very well... Are all the cars of the last century that didn't have an electro-nanny now dangerous? This raises very many more questions than it answers...
This is showing how an average car before ESC became a requirement in every new car that is built will react in the case of an emergency swerve. What are you finding so difficult to understand about that?
ESC are for people not willing to spend more time or not willing to put effort to teach themselves to become a better driver. Driving is a skill. Learn how to drive safely first before getting a safer car. A mad driver in a super high tech car is not in any way safer than a skillful driver with an all manual system with no electronics.
Once upon a time people - well, some people - had a clue. Then came ABS and everybody had the brilliant thought that they could ride the ass of the car in front at 70MPH. Then came traction control and the same shitheads thought they could do the same in the snow. Back up cameras, why shoulder check? Cars that park themselves - why learn? Now they'll believe what? That they can play roulette with the steering wheel with a vibrator up their arse and all will be just wonderful.
Maybe time to go the other way .. A big carton boxing glove punches you in the head in a parking lot fender bender, and the air bag packed with shrapnel weeds the rest out in a Darwinian fashion, leaving the roadways less congested for those who remember how to actually operate a vehicle.
+Jim Vicious I believe today's drivers are the most safety conscious yet.
+Super Jeepin Bullshit!
+Super Jeepin "Safety conscious" has to mean more than relying on the equipment they've been sold as the safest yet. Although vehicles are safer now in many regards, they're being dummied down too much. in the day we learned to drive on ice and snow by doing donuts an a parking lot - but you know what? we did learn something. Where the limit was, what happens when you push past it, and how to bring it back. How to get stuck and unstuck, where the corners and the ends were, and when to simply slow the fuck down because the roads were extra shitty.
Cars now attempt to "convince" the driver that every day is warm, dry, and sunny and two pedals makes everything peachy keen. And the majority of people actually believe it.
+Jim Vicious I've seen many people think that they're invincible because they have AWD with ESC and TC, most of those people are wrapped around a tree by a 90° corner because they entered at 100 km/h.
+Alex462047 I disagree.
I remember back in the 90's when our moms would be like: "When you cross the street... check left; then right; then up... y'a know for cars without ESC rolling over..." It was a real safety concern.
I usually drive cars without esc and abs ...and i'm fine
Idk why but watching as he casually holds the wheel while tumbling in the car was funny
if you really dont know how to drive, then no system will ever save you
Bar aesthetics and the windscreen, everything else stayed intact, despite two rollovers. That Yaris was drivable even post the second roll. It rolled and summersaulted back onto the tarmac and yet none of the tyres were damaged. Astonishing built quality, especially for what is a cheap car.
No cars are 'unsafe' it's the driver !
Prior to the ESP we KNEW that in an emergency like this you only should turn the steering to the opposite direction to save the car from rolling over..
self righting seems pretty good safety feature :D
In Canada and United States of America, we call it electronic stability program ( ESP ) and also have Traction Control (TC) and Antilock Braking System ( ABS ).
Looks like the terminology differs slightly but is essentially has the same meaning.
"over 70mph" what like 72mph?
+Danilo Angelo Abooooooww ofta jag ser din kommentar
Galna tider 😂
+Danilo Angelo Hahahaha
This is one of my favorite channels indeed. Unfortunately the majority of car review channels does not focus on such contents and providing additional detailed information with regards to safety equipment installed on these vehicles along with Driver Assist systems. My channel Mind Fusion was created to fill this gap. It is as important to review these features before making a decision to purchase a new vehicle. I hope that helps!
and now show what happens in a car that DOES have ESC!... its a bit dumb that you don't directly compare...
How do you roll over a car with Eurovision Song Contest?
that actually looks really really fucking fun. i wanna do that. someone give me that car and a track!
I can assure you that rolling over isn't that fun.
Riky Many I mean if you have a car with a roll cage and a track and the purpose is to just fuck shit up then I'm sure its pretty fun.
I support this statement. I feel like crashing cars to shit as well. :v
I'd like to see this test with ESC, I wonder if at the higher speeds if it could really help prevent the rollover?
ESC and TCS is for people who can't drive.
I have seen a lot of people with lots of road driving experience more than 50k per year, but once you send them over a skid plate without TC or ESC they cant even catch the car. In these moments of shock (obstacle incoming at 70mph) everybody can make a mistake, so ESC can even save the live of an F1 driver. TIff did another video with cars fitted with ESC. You just cant get them to flick as hard even if you want.
***** Experience often does not equate to skill.
Unless you're paying attention and actively working to improve your driving, you're not going to become a better driver. This is very well demonstrated by many people currently on America's roads.
That being said, I agree that traction and stability control systems (if well programmed/designed) can be of assistance to even the very skilled driver as, even in situations where a skilled driver might outperform such a system, the reaction time of the system can be quicker than an unsuspecting driver.
It's very similar to ABS (which can be outbraked but only if you are completely on top of your game at the very instant it's required -- a difficult feat as even the most alert drivers will occasionally suffer a lapse in concentration).
I've never met/heard of anyone who can brake all wheels individually within milliseconds of a skid happening.
ESC is not for when you are on your best, super alert on a country road. If you spin off there, you can't drive and need to learn to judge the car/road/conditions and your ability better. It is for when you drive home late at night on the motorway, pouring with rain and two people have a crash close by and give you a nudge. That's where ESC keeps you away from the truck, because there isn't always room for the world's biggest powerslide.
You may not spot that spilt diesel on your favorite road.
This vsa already saved me from accident for sudden hard left turn avoiding a concrete barrier at speed of 80kph..this video demo is correct its very hard to maintain a path specially if you are in narrow roads.
ESC Is trash, I absolutely hate esc. This is over exaggerated to serious extremes, driving on donuts not reacting to save the car and well frankly swerving more than 2 lanes to show why you need esc.
I would say a good esc has it's uses on dry pavement to improve high speed cornering, but it is not very effective on ice and snow.
yuki no inu You Are Also Trash, ESC will be Save you and your family
ESC has never saved me. I drive everyday in sun/rain/or snow. I've driven in all conditions and have never needed ESC. It has messed up what I wanted to do and put my life at risk. You do not need ESC if you are a good driver. You however are a car, fuck that at most. Bring back the rotary's. I hate computer controlled cars, learn how to drive and you won't need baby assistance.
yuki no inu but ESC is still if you driving a SUV, because if SUV didn't a ESC, it's body roll
Mazda 6 No just stop talking, you have zero clue of anything about cars. If you have anything that has ESC it can be turned off in most cases. SUVs do not need it but the driver does. Due to high center of gravity, yes ESC is more likely to be used by shitty drivers. If you have any car control you do not need ESC. ESC was made because people are shit at driving. Body roll is caused by loose suspension and that is rather not present today, you had 1980s tech where they was no dampening or "comfort" was not possible in that time without having roll. Now days suspension is so advance that SUVs can corner tighter without body roll, they still need to slow due to high center of gravity, but do not need it. Also, ESC has absolutely nothing to do with body roll. There is zero connection other than it's on the car. Body roll is caused by lateral G's ESC is there to stop and apply the breaks to one side to prevent the car from going out of control. ESC is not to stop body roll.
Disappointed you didn't have a car with ESC to actually.... You know.... Prove the point at all
holy crap, your stunt driver is weak. Didn't correct for the second slide on the 70mph test, and WAY over corrected on the 70mph+? really, come on now...
All for entertainment's sake...
Glad someone else caught that....
it was done on purpose...
^ And that's the problem. Lack of driving ability. People have no interest in gaining experience. It's easy and lazy to just drive in straight lines all the time and take a slow turn here and there, never really pushing the limits of the car. Cars are mere appliances to 99% of people, and that's sad.
To be fair, I think they were aiming for a 'normal person' analogue. I know waaay to many drivers who wouldn't have the funniest of what to do in this case.
Should be titled "how to roll a car properly and safely"
VSC, TCS, and TRAC (4 wheel drive traction control) in toyota's work amazing. Have a 4 runner that just blasts in the snow and ice. If your not careful it will make you overconfident in your driving.
And they don't even explain what esc is...
its the escape button
With or without ESC, I'm impressed with how well the Yaris fared - even after rolling!
Looks driveable.
What was the car weight before taking out all of the interior? And what was the weight after that?
That's what happens to your quadcopter if your esc fail
Good guy Steve, be like Steve!
Obvious crash on purpose is obvious.
2/10
+swordfish1986 At least he CAN think, unlike you.
derbigpr500 Look there, another shitbrain.
A bit of polish and some new windows and we can sell that in to my country, after all, it was kept in the garage and only used by a old lady to go shopping occasionally. Can you guess the country?
Da, yes, ja. it's about Romania. All the cars have this story. just kiding. hai noroc bade.
+Andrei Razvan o sa apara pe olx, stare impecabila, recent adusa, nu troncane nu bate =))
lel it still worked after rolling at 70
well it didn't technically roll at 70 though did it. Because there was a lot of skidding and decelerating before it tipped on its roof in a wet grass field.
Yaris is fantastic little car
I was once driving in a 2001 Focus without ESC on an snowy road and wasn't even going fast (25-30mph maybe) and a dog jumped in front of me on the road. When I tried to avoid it, the car oversteered and I crashed into a barrier. I've done a winter driving course (when they teach you how to recover from a skid) just weeks before and even though I quickly reacted and turned the wheel into the opposite direction, I still totalled thr car. My next car was a 2005 Renault Laguna which had ESC and when I drove into an icy corner, the car began to oversteer again but ESC corrected it almost instantly so I managed to stay on the road. ESC probably wouldn't have saved this Yaris from rolling over (the driver was obviously an idiot), but it really helps if you suddenly drive over an unexpected icy patch on the road or if you need to avoid something very quickly and you don't have enough space to recover from oversteer. I think everyone should know how to recover from a skid manually, but electronic systems can make a lot of difference too.
I think I'm the only one who noticed that at 3:51 the music completley fits with the crash sound xD
Yeah pretty sure everyone noticed that. Oh by the way It was on purpose.
I don't quite get it. I've owned quite a lot of cars without esc, and I have rolled only one of them, an Opel Olympia. I couldn't even roll any the rear engined Skodas! What have I done wrong?
Or are modern cars simply so badly constructed, that they need those electronic gizmos to keep the wheels on the road?
2:53 how is he so calm
Says not having ESC is bad - proves it by removing the entire interior of the car including the fuel tank and adding a roll cage to make it top heavy.. along with that making it heavier on the driver's side which is why he rolled the same way both times.
Its amazing how many lives a roll cage can save.. it should be standard on all cars.
This is why I'm not a massive fan of tall cars with really high riding suspension, and that covers just about all old super minis and also things like the 306 as well. ESC or no ESC, a longer suspension travel in corners is going to give you a significant rolling moment. I always felt the body roll when taking a tight corner at 50+ in my Mk6 Fiesta, but now I have the lowest of the low family hatchbacks - a Civic - I've quite happily dominated the hills of Cornwall and Warminster and was never worried. That said, in these clips he was throwing the balance of the car one way then the other, without any ABS braking, for maximum drama.
When my tail-happy jag hit black ice on a motorway, I can vouch that ESC works very, very well.
That test did not show that a Yaris with ESC wouldn't have the same problem.
ESC is not designed to prevent a spinout or rollover under the conditions shown in this video, but during moderate conditions.
wow, didn't expect car to flip. not sure whether esc would make much difference in this situation.
so what will esc do and how it will help exactly in such a situation?
For a car of this size it actually fares amazingly good.
if ABS and EBD is present in car as a safety feature then is esp is required as a safety feature and can we install is later on
that flip at the end was epic. i've never seen a car do that lmao
does YARIS really requires ESC? Rolled over twice and magically back to 4 wheels in drivable condition. :D
excellent episode. Thank you for sharing this.
I drive an ESC equipped Hino truck. it tries to kill me. When I accelerate turning at an intersection it thinks it is going to roll over. It kills power just when you need it, trying to merge into traffic. Technicians claim it is working fine. I switch it off when I remember.
I'm not sure how ESC would prevent that other than controlling the wheel and killing engine power?
The thumbnail looks soo like a game, I initially though it might be a clickbait. But no, it's dammmn real
That wasnt a crash,that was a sick flip ! Ive heard flippin cars was popular with the youth.
Well if you had to go 70 just to make it lose control well its pretty safe to me.
that last roll was cool
like how it flipped onto its wheels
my 1960 MG magnette doesn't have these new fangled controls. and I was traveling at 45mph. I whipped it back and forth, avoiding a collision with a car pulling into the roadway. I had that car up on two wheels. but the car doesn't come with anti roll bars. I guess that aided it from fighting me and keeping it's tires firmly on the ground, the best it could. if rubber doesn't meet the road, how can it get traction. like traction control in the rain. but speed adds factors in the mix. factors that the average driver in most cases don't or won't consider.
Is the 2001 Yaris equipped with airbags???? I hope so.
Surely the rollcage adds a lot of rigidity to the car, and make the car more top heavy?