I’m in the US unfortunately. Very easy job to take on though. Simple masking techniques will minimize the amount of disassembly needed if that’s the part that’s hindering you.
As a matter of interest, what is the muffler thread in the cylinder head? I think it may be one of the fine pitch M6 series. I'd advise any new owner to remove all of the shaft wheels (except ignition wheel containing the magnet) straight away and cut a nice flat to locate the retaining grub screw. The alternative is not to do this, wait for the wheel to start slipping and find the grub has chewed a burr into the shaft and is then stuck solid and cannot be removed without a puller. I'm making a puller right now!
I found that my vertical leaked more water past the pump ram than it pumped around the system. Very messy so I've stopped using water for now. Doesn't seem needed anyway? I'll dismantle it before too long to see how the ram is sealed to the body - probably too much to expect an O ring inside. Any problems with your's in this regard and do you know if there's any sort of seal used?
I guess I’ve been fortunate to receive one that doesn’t leak. It definitely doesnt need water to be circulated, it could very well run for id say a 20 minute period with just water in the cylinder jacket. The ram is sealed with an oring though and assembly is not ideal, the edges are rough and sharp. I could see your oring being just ripped or missing a piece from assembly. Would be worth a peek. The biggest concern with mine as I mentioned in the video was the crank bearings as they weren’t sealed so they let a lot of oil pass through them.
@@patalexander4624 Good news at least for I can hopefully fix this with a new seal and surface polish. Yes, the bottom end upgrade is interesting and I'd like to have a go at this myself. I've hesitated on this because I'm not familiar with how to time / re-time these engines on re-assembly. I think I'm correct that these are basically 4-cycle but with oil needing to be added to the fuel for upper cylinder lubrication. Only the exhaust valve is timed with the inlet valve being automatically pressure operated by the descending and ascending piston - correct? Before I take the engine apart it would be useful to know the best way to check and set ignition and valve timing. Can you point the way?
You are exactly correct. Best way is to pick a position in the engines cycle, I prefer to use top dead center with the exhaust valve closed. Otherwise known as the power stroke. Then the teeth on the gears that are in contact at that moment need to be marked. Should be three teeth total. One on one gear and the two that tooth is between on the other gear. Use a sharpie or pen. Later when the engine is disassembled file away a bit of the corner of the teeth and leave some sort of identifying paint mark on the teeth. Unfortunately the small gear position on the crankshaft also needs marked in some way. Once that is all done, the only thing left to be timed is the magnet on the crankshaft for the ignition.
@@patalexander4624 Thanks. Spent an hour or so eyeballing the engine and noting the approximate point (before TDC) where the spark occurs and also the exhaust valve movement - things clearer now. I guess rough timing then trial & error with exact magnet position is the way for the ignition, rather than trying to precisely set x degrees BTDC, etc. My exhaust valve push rod has about .025" play when off-cam which seems a lot. D. Kerzal's notes give just .005" for this but adjustment is far from easy (design!) and requires cam follower assembly to be completely removed and rod removed for access to locknut and 'guessed' adjustment - which itself requires the cylinder holding nuts to be slackened to allow cylinder to be raised to remove the assembly (insufficient follower/cylinder nut clearance on underside of jacket!). The range fittings standards on my engine is interesting - I guess any available sized bar stock was used by the Chinese. The original 1/4-32 threaded spark plug is made from 2BA size hex bar and the water unions are 3/8" AF - the rest looks mainly metric. Crazy!
They definitely have an interesting way of engineering things. Yeah the vertical model was a very odd design with very part basically relying on many other parts. Not ideal. The valve lash is essentially a guess on this one but luckily the engine is pretty forgiving there. Timing however it is not. Requires a lot of trial and error to get right and I believe that has a lot to do with the very basic engineering for mass production and the fact that fuel and air does not scale down well especially in less than ideal conditions.
bought one of these.set screws all came out and i am not sure of how to time it.Not putting flats on the crankshaft is a serious design flaw.My bearings just fall in and out of the crankcase at will and has 3/16 of an inch of endplay.Any idea how to time this engine?Any help would be great.THX
Timing needs to be set by understanding how it works and trial and error. From my understanding with both of these engines, the cam duration matches the entire stroke so start out with 0 degrees of timing on the cam and advance it little by little by moving the smaller timing gear on the crank until performance peaks. Then mark it and create your flat spot on the crank for the set screw.
Hi Pat, You mention the crankcase is oil-filled and I think this was not so with previous (horizontal) versions of this engine. What would you say is the overall lubrication needs? Still 2-stroke oil in fuel? How about oil in crankcase?
Only the vertical has an enclosed crankcase able to hold oil to lubricate the rotating assembly. All models it is recommended to run atleast a small amount of 2 stroke oil in the fuel you’re using. Besides that, just make sure all moving parts have atleast a small amount of clean oil on them before running the engine. The vertical I run it with about 2mL of oil in the crank case on top of lubricating all other moving parts and using a small amount of oil in the fuel. About 75:1.
@@patalexander4624 Thanks for clearing that up. It seems that oil loss from the crankcase really has to be accepted for this particular engine which I'd consider as a total loss system anyway. Initially it seemed that there might be rather more than a couple of mls involved and perhaps it came filled with oil from the makers. The bearing conversion most probably wouldn't make a massive difference long-term because the bearings mentioned are really only shielded with the aim of aiding retention of grease used during bearing assembly. Retaining oil needs sprung oil-seals and although this could probably have been incorporated at the design stage, I see no way this could be done as a modification using anything off-the-shelf. I'd probably do the ignition saver micro-switch addition though and install the lighter governor springs both sides to reduce engine speed. I see that this engine, is available from Banggood as the ETX - as I've ordered. The same looking thing also appears on the eBay listing of Microcosm Engine (galgig) who call it M91. I assume that these are identical? Would be interested to know who actually makes the engine if Banggood and Microcosm are just vendors?
Yes stock it likes to spit oil out of the breather hole in the fill cap and leaks terribly out of the crank bearings. But after I added the drain and the double sealed bearings it holds its oil 1000% better now. I know sealed bearings are to seal the bearings from the outside and not seal its mating surfaces but it was a much cheaper and easier option than trying to find a rotary seal with a garter spring that small. And again, it works. Also why I doubled up on the bearings, two on each side. And to answer your question, the gentleman at microcosm is the original designer of the engines. Some of the designs are knock offs but that’s the origin of the engines. Banggood and the others are just second hand distributors. I recommend using eBay if you’re in the US. His website though is microcosmengine.com and his TH-cam is jianzhong dong.
@@patalexander4624 Thanks for further information. I see that a talented guy called David Kerzel did the original build of the horizontal about 2003 then started on the vertical version but work here looks to have stalled. All pictures I've seen of the Chinese engines have got 'Eachine' lasered onto the crankcase - so I assume this outfit does the manufacturing or at least assemblies from parts made by dozens of others in wooden sheds somewhere in China. Eachine have a website where the vertical H&M is listed. Banggood is their designated supplier in China but no mention of Microcosm. I might try your 2X double shielded bearing conversation - looks like no standard oil seals for the crankcase as produced are available anyway - at least not in the UK. Have ordered vertical from Banggood (a better deal) but already getting an iffy feeling - they claimed engines were in stock but then quoted a despatch date (not delivery) of 20 May which was 4 weeks after placing order. May cancel if not on the road by that date.
That is correct. The horizontal engines are copies of david Krezels design. Yeah they’re mass produced somewhere, I’m sure Jin at microcosm isn’t making thousands of them himself. I never looked that far into it. But he’s the one who’s doing the final designs as far as I know. Banggood is usually the better price but the worst service and longest wait time as well. That’s why I always go with eBay with these. Price is sometimes a little bit more but you’ll have it or a refund within the month at the latest. Atleast that’s the case for here in the US. Either way, good luck and I hope I have been of good help for you.
@@wernerfreitag434 there is one or two set screws that go into the flywheel between the spokes. They are 180 degrees from each other. They’re hard to get to you need to use the short end of an L shaped Allen key. After the screws are loose it might take some force to wiggle it off due to the tight tolerances and the burrs the screws create on the crankshaft. Hope this helps.
@@patalexander4624Fact is that I removed both set screws but to no avail. Didnt dare to apply any force on the wheeltto get it off but shall now that carefully. Thanks a Lot for your kind assistance: w.freitag
Seems like these engine have a flawed cooling system design in that the radiator sits much lower than the highest point in the system which is the cylinder.
Yes, typically the opening of the radiator should be the highest point of the cooling system. I don’t know why these were designed this was. But my solution to that without mounting the radiator elsewhere is to just fill and bleed the system at the top banjo bolt on the cylinder which is the highest point of the system.
Simply stunning.
I love the painted horizontal.
I'm due to receive one soon, but other than change the governor springs, that's all I would dare do!
If you were in the UK, I would commision you to repaint one for me.
I’m in the US unfortunately. Very easy job to take on though. Simple masking techniques will minimize the amount of disassembly needed if that’s the part that’s hindering you.
@@patalexander4624 ideas thinking of a full strip down the a rebuild after painted.
As a matter of interest, what is the muffler thread in the cylinder head? I think it may be one of the fine pitch M6 series. I'd advise any new owner to remove all of the shaft wheels (except ignition wheel containing the magnet) straight away and cut a nice flat to locate the retaining grub screw. The alternative is not to do this, wait for the wheel to start slipping and find the grub has chewed a burr into the shaft and is then stuck solid and cannot be removed without a puller. I'm making a puller right now!
I’m unsure if the thread size as I drilled mine out immediately to fit the pipe I used for the new exhaust.
Exhaust thread M8 x O.75
Just purchase some 8mm brass pipe and a die ..
And you can make any type of exhaust you like.
Really nice engine !
Great job look super
I would like to make an RC "horseles carriage" kind of car, with an engine like this.
I found that my vertical leaked more water past the pump ram than it pumped around the system. Very messy so I've stopped using water for now. Doesn't seem needed anyway? I'll dismantle it before too long to see how the ram is sealed to the body - probably too much to expect an O ring inside. Any problems with your's in this regard and do you know if there's any sort of seal used?
I guess I’ve been fortunate to receive one that doesn’t leak. It definitely doesnt need water to be circulated, it could very well run for id say a 20 minute period with just water in the cylinder jacket. The ram is sealed with an oring though and assembly is not ideal, the edges are rough and sharp. I could see your oring being just ripped or missing a piece from assembly. Would be worth a peek. The biggest concern with mine as I mentioned in the video was the crank bearings as they weren’t sealed so they let a lot of oil pass through them.
@@patalexander4624 Good news at least for I can hopefully fix this with a new seal and surface polish. Yes, the bottom end upgrade is interesting and I'd like to have a go at this myself. I've hesitated on this because I'm not familiar with how to time / re-time these engines on re-assembly. I think I'm correct that these are basically 4-cycle but with oil needing to be added to the fuel for upper cylinder lubrication. Only the exhaust valve is timed with the inlet valve being automatically pressure operated by the descending and ascending piston - correct? Before I take the engine apart it would be useful to know the best way to check and set ignition and valve timing. Can you point the way?
You are exactly correct. Best way is to pick a position in the engines cycle, I prefer to use top dead center with the exhaust valve closed. Otherwise known as the power stroke. Then the teeth on the gears that are in contact at that moment need to be marked. Should be three teeth total. One on one gear and the two that tooth is between on the other gear. Use a sharpie or pen. Later when the engine is disassembled file away a bit of the corner of the teeth and leave some sort of identifying paint mark on the teeth. Unfortunately the small gear position on the crankshaft also needs marked in some way. Once that is all done, the only thing left to be timed is the magnet on the crankshaft for the ignition.
@@patalexander4624 Thanks. Spent an hour or so eyeballing the engine and noting the approximate point (before TDC) where the spark occurs and also the exhaust valve movement - things clearer now. I guess rough timing then trial & error with exact magnet position is the way for the ignition, rather than trying to precisely set x degrees BTDC, etc. My exhaust valve push rod has about .025" play when off-cam which seems a lot. D. Kerzal's notes give just .005" for this but adjustment is far from easy (design!) and requires cam follower assembly to be completely removed and rod removed for access to locknut and 'guessed' adjustment - which itself requires the cylinder holding nuts to be slackened to allow cylinder to be raised to remove the assembly (insufficient follower/cylinder nut clearance on underside of jacket!). The range fittings standards on my engine is interesting - I guess any available sized bar stock was used by the Chinese. The original 1/4-32 threaded spark plug is made from 2BA size hex bar and the water unions are 3/8" AF - the rest looks mainly metric. Crazy!
They definitely have an interesting way of engineering things. Yeah the vertical model was a very odd design with very part basically relying on many other parts. Not ideal. The valve lash is essentially a guess on this one but luckily the engine is pretty forgiving there. Timing however it is not. Requires a lot of trial and error to get right and I believe that has a lot to do with the very basic engineering for mass production and the fact that fuel and air does not scale down well especially in less than ideal conditions.
bought one of these.set screws all came out and i am not sure of how to time it.Not putting flats on the crankshaft is a serious design flaw.My bearings just fall in and out of the crankcase at will and has 3/16 of an inch of endplay.Any idea how to time this engine?Any help would be great.THX
Timing needs to be set by understanding how it works and trial and error. From my understanding with both of these engines, the cam duration matches the entire stroke so start out with 0 degrees of timing on the cam and advance it little by little by moving the smaller timing gear on the crank until performance peaks. Then mark it and create your flat spot on the crank for the set screw.
Hi Pat,
You mention the crankcase is oil-filled and I think this was not so with previous (horizontal) versions of this engine. What would you say is the overall lubrication needs? Still 2-stroke oil in fuel? How about oil in crankcase?
Only the vertical has an enclosed crankcase able to hold oil to lubricate the rotating assembly. All models it is recommended to run atleast a small amount of 2 stroke oil in the fuel you’re using. Besides that, just make sure all moving parts have atleast a small amount of clean oil on them before running the engine. The vertical I run it with about 2mL of oil in the crank case on top of lubricating all other moving parts and using a small amount of oil in the fuel. About 75:1.
@@patalexander4624 Thanks for clearing that up. It seems that oil loss from the crankcase really has to be accepted for this particular engine which I'd consider as a total loss system anyway. Initially it seemed that there might be rather more than a couple of mls involved and perhaps it came filled with oil from the makers. The bearing conversion most probably wouldn't make a massive difference long-term because the bearings mentioned are really only shielded with the aim of aiding retention of grease used during bearing assembly. Retaining oil needs sprung oil-seals and although this could probably have been incorporated at the design stage, I see no way this could be done as a modification using anything off-the-shelf. I'd probably do the ignition saver micro-switch addition though and install the lighter governor springs both sides to reduce engine speed.
I see that this engine, is available from Banggood as the ETX - as I've ordered. The same looking thing also appears on the eBay listing of Microcosm Engine (galgig) who call it M91. I assume that these are identical? Would be interested to know who actually makes the engine if Banggood and Microcosm are just vendors?
Yes stock it likes to spit oil out of the breather hole in the fill cap and leaks terribly out of the crank bearings. But after I added the drain and the double sealed bearings it holds its oil 1000% better now. I know sealed bearings are to seal the bearings from the outside and not seal its mating surfaces but it was a much cheaper and easier option than trying to find a rotary seal with a garter spring that small. And again, it works. Also why I doubled up on the bearings, two on each side. And to answer your question, the gentleman at microcosm is the original designer of the engines. Some of the designs are knock offs but that’s the origin of the engines. Banggood and the others are just second hand distributors. I recommend using eBay if you’re in the US. His website though is microcosmengine.com and his TH-cam is jianzhong dong.
@@patalexander4624 Thanks for further information. I see that a talented guy called David Kerzel did the original build of the horizontal about 2003 then started on the vertical version but work here looks to have stalled. All pictures I've seen of the Chinese engines have got 'Eachine' lasered onto the crankcase - so I assume this outfit does the manufacturing or at least assemblies from parts made by dozens of others in wooden sheds somewhere in China. Eachine have a website where the vertical H&M is listed. Banggood is their designated supplier in China but no mention of Microcosm. I might try your 2X double shielded bearing conversation - looks like no standard oil seals for the crankcase as produced are available anyway - at least not in the UK. Have ordered vertical from Banggood (a better deal) but already getting an iffy feeling - they claimed engines were in stock but then quoted a despatch date (not delivery) of 20 May which was 4 weeks after placing order. May cancel if not on the road by that date.
That is correct. The horizontal engines are copies of david Krezels design. Yeah they’re mass produced somewhere, I’m sure Jin at microcosm isn’t making thousands of them himself. I never looked that far into it. But he’s the one who’s doing the final designs as far as I know. Banggood is usually the better price but the worst service and longest wait time as well. That’s why I always go with eBay with these. Price is sometimes a little bit more but you’ll have it or a refund within the month at the latest. Atleast that’s the case for here in the US. Either way, good luck and I hope I have been of good help for you.
Hello cant you gave me the link where you buy the bearing thanks
8x12x3.5mm flanged sealed bearings
On my engine is flywheel with the goernour loose. Hoe could be removed and how should be fixed to crankshaft?
Remove the flywheel and grind a small flat spot on the crankshaft for the set screw on the flywheel.
@@patalexander4624 Thank you for your tip, but I dont see how I can remove it! It turns absolutely freely, but is axially fix in its Position:
@@wernerfreitag434 there is one or two set screws that go into the flywheel between the spokes. They are 180 degrees from each other. They’re hard to get to you need to use the short end of an L shaped Allen key. After the screws are loose it might take some force to wiggle it off due to the tight tolerances and the burrs the screws create on the crankshaft. Hope this helps.
@@patalexander4624Fact is that I removed both set screws but to no avail. Didnt dare to apply any force on the wheeltto get it off but shall now that carefully. Thanks a Lot for your kind assistance: w.freitag
Where do you buy these engines from thanks
eBay, banggood, wish, microcosm-engine.com
Seems like these engine have a flawed cooling system design in that the radiator sits much lower than the highest point in the system which is the cylinder.
Yes, typically the opening of the radiator should be the highest point of the cooling system. I don’t know why these were designed this was. But my solution to that without mounting the radiator elsewhere is to just fill and bleed the system at the top banjo bolt on the cylinder which is the highest point of the system.
What is this paint it looks a bit spacial ?
And how did you paint it with spray or what?
Krylon spray paint.
@@patalexander4624 ok nice, thanks