I own three GEC knives and all three Rough Ryder Reserve knives. I love them all. I have had terrible luck with Case. Unless I can find a local seller, I will no longer purchase Case. I have had better fit and finish with regular Rough Ryder versus Case.
I'd bet the RR work knife gives the Case swayback jack a run for its money . Even the standard RR knife as Case has been slipping on their QC it seems . Plus IMHO the swayback jack is really quite small and the art work knife is just a better size .
Great review Sir. I own all three RRR. I thought I was a "know it all" pertaining to these three new Rough Ryders. However, after viewing your review, I now know much more.
I personally and very excited about the RRR line. I love GEC knives and I’ve only been able to get two because they always get sold out. This line will definitely help people like me that aren’t able to get on the GEC reserve list on new releases. Great video and perspective.
I’ve given up getting GEC knives because living in England I’ve got to be really quick in ordering, I’ve never been able to get my grail knife the tom’s choice Barlow’s plus the postage is astronomical especially when costumes get involved.
Excellent review. Very thorough, and I think you have a great eye for detail. When I dove into this design, I started with blade shape first, rather than handle pattern, which I know sounds odd, but hear me out. I have always loved the blade shape found in the 940 Osborne, and I had never seen that modern reverse tanto shape in a traditional. I wanted to provide two similar reverse tanto blades, but I wanted them to handle different specific tasks, so that's how you end up with two very similar blades (very close in size - one is actually longer than the other), but one has a belly and the other does not. One is easier for push cuts and then the other is easier for slicing. The thought then becomes - what pattern holds two similar blades in the same knife? The muskrat and the canoe both have two similar or identical blades - and to me, the Canoe was the obvious choice. Beyond that, I said to myself - how can I update this very traditional canoe pattern and make it obvious that you're not getting a standard canoe. That's how the swell center happened and how the Kayak was born. Again, amazing review and great insights. Appreciate that very much and can't wait for you to see the Bar Back (004) the next four after that. Btw, if you're looking for an easy way to talk about these (because saying R-R-R feel weird in the mouth), here's how I've been doing it lately and it's so much easier. This review is of the Triple-R Pattern 2 Kayak. :)
Hey Andy, thanks so much for the insight! It sounds like you took a similar approach to Spyderco’s, where the design starts with the edge. I do like the blade shapes, and especially that one is straight and the other has a little belly. As for the Bar Back, I’m carrying one now (that was very graciously loaned by @FormationIT ) and formulating my review. I was wondering what led to this being a two bladed knife, rather than only having the bottle opener / modified wharncliffe blade? Also, any idea when the next 4 designs will be revealed?
@@KnifeThoughts I think the Bar Back gets a little confusing for people, because they assume that it's a bar tool. It's actually not. The name is only an easy identifier that there happens to be a cap lifter on the spine of the knife (hence the term Bar for the cap lifter and Back for the location on the spine). Plain and simple, this is, for lack of better terms, a working man's traditional. The Triple-R Pattern 4 Bar Back starts off in my mind with a question. How do you put a fat utility style Wharncliffe (that you see on many modern utility knives) into a traditional and keep it looking fairly traditional? The innovative finger choil which is provided by half of it cut out of the bolster (highly unusual) and half cut out of the blade) was my primary focus. This allows you to choke up and get some powerful utility cuts out of a small knife. The other blade, which you'll note is also a full size blade is perfect for everyday slicing or general cutting like just about any other cut (like peeling an apple). Now, here's the thing. At that point, the knife was done until I really started looking at it. I thought, wow - there's a lot of utility blade showing above the handle while it's closed. Can I get something else out of it that's useful? The answer was yes - after some serious brain meltdowns - I can get something else in there. I can get a cap lifter in there that lets you open a cap without opening the knife. I get that people either love this one or hate it. That's fine. Whenever you step this far outside the box with a traditional, you're going to get that. Not every knife is for every person. That's fine. I will say this. Forget about this being a Bar Tool. It's not. It's a two-bladed, working man's utility knife that happens to have a cap lifter in the spine. The Wharncliffe will get through just about any box, strap, or even a piece of carpet without a problem. I also think that this pattern will get refined a little more if it goes to a second run. Thanks for the questions. I look forward to seeing your review.
And one of my favorite comments ever appears here on this video. It's the one where the person tells me to stick to my day job, which always makes me wonder what people think I've been doing for 20 years. This IS my day job. :)
Hi, I enjoyed your review. I have picked up the kayak and like it. You highlighted exactly the point which i had made to others which was regarding the thickness. I can understand the reason for them wanting to make the design more modular from a cost saving perspective, though personally would have preferred a thinner frame. Also absolutely feel we need other goto brands where the underlying quality is a given.
Great review and discussion. I have learned so much about traditional knives by watching your reviews and reading your articles, so thanks. This review surprised me at the end when you brought up A G Russell knives. When I first got into pocket knives, I bought several from Russell and William Henry because I didn't know the market. Now that I know a lot more and buy Spyderco and GEC, I often wonder why none of the reviewers I listen to ever review AG Russell or William Henry knives. Any thoughts on why that is?
I don't have one. Would love one though. So I can't tell for sure. But if it's a whittler, the thickness might be very comfortable when whittling. Just a thought from a whittler! 😊
Lately regular rough ryder are superior to case. Seems case is on a slippery slope if they don't wake up and get some quality improvements real soon. It's why you can't get GEC's anymore. Demand for a quality knife is up and it's no longer there with case. In my opinion.
I have no problem getting a report work knife if I cannot get a gec 47. It’s a pattern used by more that one company like a trapper, stockman, Congress, etc. good review I have three of the rrr. I agree that the work knife would be awesome in a rrr version
great video as always..I wished that boker germany could have been compared too since they have some models in the same price range..I dont own any now but if I had would have sent it out to u
Great knife great review but like you I don’t understand the central liner but having said that I’m going to get one and as for Case knives it’s a lottery with the quality unfortunately, I’ve had gaps wobbly blades and transitions. The GEC viper is my favourite I was very lucky to get one.
Hey I just got in a Brother 1508 it has washers and man its built very nice quality. I didn't get any of the rrr line yet. And I'm not a fan of the match strike pull.
I ordered two brother knives as well the 1508 and the 1503, don't have them yet but i agree, on paper at least they do look very solid knives with great materials.I would like to get the rrr001 model but like gec knives they are realy hard to get if you live outside of the us.
👍 Good review of this knife although we need to agree to disagree on the brass liner between blades. Your general comparisons of these RRR knives to other choices in the marketplace was very helpful and from my experience I agree with your conclusions. I have become very disappointed w/ Great Eastern Cutlery because their knives are basically unavailable as well as expensive.
I think what's fun about the traditional knife world is that basically they're generally all copies. RR, Case, and GEC didn't invent most of the patterns they're making. Many of the known patterns have been around for 100's of years, and we're ALL digging back through very old illustrated catalogs to find patterns that haven't been made in years. The Triple-R Pattern 3 Swell Center Whittler comes for a 100-year-old catalog illustration of an IXL knife. It's slightly updated by true to the nature of the original pattern. Unless you're inventing something new like the Triple-R Pattern 4 Bar Back, we are ALL going back to knife school and looking at old patterns to make new knives. The Sway Back has been around for generations - it was a loom knife with an odd shape but fantastic feel.
I bought the Kayak, because it was the only one of the three I could get my hands on. I had it out of the tube for perhaps 15 seconds. Then I put it back and returned it to the seller for refund. It's ridiculously thick for the design - you could fit a second pair of blades in the vacant space between the covers (@5:20 illustrates this well) - you make this point too. A pity, because it's nicely made otherwise. I wish makers of pocket knives would remember that pocket knives should fit comfortably in a pocket! Also, one of the main benefits of the canoe configuration is that the angular spine ends sit within the bolsters when closed, yet this Kayak manages to expose them! Your comparison with the RR Canoe illustrates this perfectly. Great review - I wish I'd seen it before ordering mine. Still looking for a RRR001, which, being a single-blader, shouldn't have the Kayak's bloated issues. Apart from the lanyard tube (why?) it looks just about perfect. I understand that Andy at SMKW designed the Kayak himself. I think he should stick to his day job.
Great review. I really liked the Kayak, materials, blade shapes, fit/finish, operation, but was disappointed that it was thick and heavy compared to what a “canoe” pattern is supposed to be. Also, the back corner of the blade tang is exposed which, again, is not part of a canoe design. Thin and pocketable it is not, when compared with a typical canoe. Center liner, wide blade wells, exposed corner. I did send mine back but it was otherwise fine; just not what was expected.
I think RRR is pretty smart making hard to find GEC patterns. Like if they made a beer scout or even a harness hack they'd sell out. Shoot, even if they started dabling with GITD, I think it'd be extremely popular.
Case's $50-$70 knives have too many fit & finish issues to justify their price. They really need to up their game, for the sake of being Made In The USA.
Have had the A.G.Russell for 5years the Rancher i think , i like it but hard for me to sharpen, maybe the 18hrcmov steel. Just in last couple years it has come out in a pocket clip lockback which is nice as it offers a 1 hand open which the model shown in video & mine can't be opened 1 handed. I also have it in Red & Black delrin.. They are always out @ AG. I have sodbuster from case also in their stainless model
I actually like the plain, smooth white bone RR canoe as far as heft and thickness. I realize it doesn't have the prestige the RRR has, with the cool tan micarta scales and the RRR arrowhead, but the Kayak is exactly like the Classic Carbon Canoe.... very thick and ungainly, IMHO. Almost too bulky for EDC. Rough Rider's attempt to run in league with GEC and the other Big Dogs of knife lore is almost comical, with their tube, micro cloth and wax paper wrap. Very unoriginal, as is the reason for the arrowhead.
Over the past year, the "quality" of the case knives I've gotten have been on par or worse than the Rough Ryder knives I've gotten. It's been so bad, I got one Case that had a bent blade, rubbed the liner when closed, huge gaps, the blade wobbles really bad, the bevels on the blade were horrible, it had no tip (think butter knife), and it was packed full of polishing compound. Now, I've been able to fix almost all of its problems but at $60, it shouldn't have been that bad. So for now, I'm done supporting Case. The company is packed full of people who just dont give a crap about their job or the product they're putting out. I'm all for supporting USA Companies but I'm not supporting people who don't care.
There's just things about the RRR knives that just turn me off. I hate the big gaps between the blades. I want my traditional knives to look traditional. None of these RRR knives remind of a knife from 100 years ago. Most of the GEC and even Case knives do.
I own three GEC knives and all three Rough Ryder Reserve knives. I love them all. I have had terrible luck with Case. Unless I can find a local seller, I will no longer purchase Case. I have had better fit and finish with regular Rough Ryder versus Case.
I’m hearing that a lot
Man you nailed it. If RR gave that work knife the RRR upgrades, it would sell out in a few days. I would be all over that.
I can't wait for RRR #4. It will make traditional knife history.
Yes, 100% with you on the concept of upping the quality and resizing the RR work knife somewhere between the viper and the swayback jack
I would be happy with a small secondary on it like the swayback jack as well
Hopefully they take the idea and run with it
@@KnifeThoughts I think the 004 that was delayed might be close
I'd bet the RR work knife gives the Case swayback jack a run for its money . Even the standard RR knife as Case has been slipping on their QC it seems . Plus IMHO the swayback jack is really quite small and the art work knife is just a better size .
Recently discovered this channel. Love this video and the in-depth analysis/comparison. Keep up the good work !
Thanks so much!
Great review Sir. I own all three RRR. I thought I was a "know it all" pertaining to these three new Rough Ryders. However, after viewing your review, I now know much more.
I’m very happy to help, thanks for watching!
That's a really good, well built knife, i love it! 🙂
I picked up a Kayak and couldn't be more pleased. My only criticism is how the exposed tang, when closed, feels sharp. They could have come better.
I personally and very excited about the RRR line. I love GEC knives and I’ve only been able to get two because they always get sold out. This line will definitely help people like me that aren’t able to get on the GEC reserve list on new releases. Great video and perspective.
Thanks for watching!
I’ve given up getting GEC knives because living in England I’ve got to be really quick in ordering, I’ve never been able to get my grail knife the tom’s choice Barlow’s plus the postage is astronomical especially when costumes get involved.
@@magicdave93 I have the same problem where i live.
I think it is a shame that the bolsters on the Kayak do not cover the tang unlike most canoe pattern knives.
Excellent review. Very thorough, and I think you have a great eye for detail. When I dove into this design, I started with blade shape first, rather than handle pattern, which I know sounds odd, but hear me out. I have always loved the blade shape found in the 940 Osborne, and I had never seen that modern reverse tanto shape in a traditional. I wanted to provide two similar reverse tanto blades, but I wanted them to handle different specific tasks, so that's how you end up with two very similar blades (very close in size - one is actually longer than the other), but one has a belly and the other does not. One is easier for push cuts and then the other is easier for slicing.
The thought then becomes - what pattern holds two similar blades in the same knife? The muskrat and the canoe both have two similar or identical blades - and to me, the Canoe was the obvious choice. Beyond that, I said to myself - how can I update this very traditional canoe pattern and make it obvious that you're not getting a standard canoe. That's how the swell center happened and how the Kayak was born.
Again, amazing review and great insights. Appreciate that very much and can't wait for you to see the Bar Back (004) the next four after that.
Btw, if you're looking for an easy way to talk about these (because saying R-R-R feel weird in the mouth), here's how I've been doing it lately and it's so much easier. This review is of the Triple-R Pattern 2 Kayak. :)
Hey Andy, thanks so much for the insight!
It sounds like you took a similar approach to Spyderco’s, where the design starts with the edge. I do like the blade shapes, and especially that one is straight and the other has a little belly.
As for the Bar Back, I’m carrying one now (that was very graciously loaned by @FormationIT ) and formulating my review. I was wondering what led to this being a two bladed knife, rather than only having the bottle opener / modified wharncliffe blade?
Also, any idea when the next 4 designs will be revealed?
@@KnifeThoughts I think the Bar Back gets a little confusing for people, because they assume that it's a bar tool. It's actually not. The name is only an easy identifier that there happens to be a cap lifter on the spine of the knife (hence the term Bar for the cap lifter and Back for the location on the spine). Plain and simple, this is, for lack of better terms, a working man's traditional.
The Triple-R Pattern 4 Bar Back starts off in my mind with a question. How do you put a fat utility style Wharncliffe (that you see on many modern utility knives) into a traditional and keep it looking fairly traditional? The innovative finger choil which is provided by half of it cut out of the bolster (highly unusual) and half cut out of the blade) was my primary focus. This allows you to choke up and get some powerful utility cuts out of a small knife. The other blade, which you'll note is also a full size blade is perfect for everyday slicing or general cutting like just about any other cut (like peeling an apple).
Now, here's the thing. At that point, the knife was done until I really started looking at it. I thought, wow - there's a lot of utility blade showing above the handle while it's closed. Can I get something else out of it that's useful? The answer was yes - after some serious brain meltdowns - I can get something else in there. I can get a cap lifter in there that lets you open a cap without opening the knife.
I get that people either love this one or hate it. That's fine. Whenever you step this far outside the box with a traditional, you're going to get that. Not every knife is for every person. That's fine. I will say this. Forget about this being a Bar Tool. It's not. It's a two-bladed, working man's utility knife that happens to have a cap lifter in the spine. The Wharncliffe will get through just about any box, strap, or even a piece of carpet without a problem. I also think that this pattern will get refined a little more if it goes to a second run.
Thanks for the questions. I look forward to seeing your review.
And one of my favorite comments ever appears here on this video. It's the one where the person tells me to stick to my day job, which always makes me wonder what people think I've been doing for 20 years. This IS my day job. :)
Hi, I enjoyed your review. I have picked up the kayak and like it. You highlighted exactly the point which i had made to others which was regarding the thickness. I can understand the reason for them wanting to make the design more modular from a cost saving perspective, though personally would have preferred a thinner frame. Also absolutely feel we need other goto brands where the underlying quality is a given.
Yeah definitely good to have more options
Great review and discussion. I have learned so much about traditional knives by watching your reviews and reading your articles, so thanks. This review surprised me at the end when you brought up A G Russell knives. When I first got into pocket knives, I bought several from Russell and William Henry because I didn't know the market. Now that I know a lot more and buy Spyderco and GEC, I often wonder why none of the reviewers I listen to ever review AG Russell or William Henry knives. Any thoughts on why that is?
I have been meaning to buy one of the AG Russell Sunfishes. As for William Henry, they’re just super expensive.
I don't have one. Would love one though. So I can't tell for sure. But if it's a whittler, the thickness might be very comfortable when whittling. Just a thought from a whittler! 😊
Yo bud I got your sticker I’m wearing in proud on my knife drawl!!!!! Thanks again
Glad you got it!
You must not work for Spyderco!🤣
🤣
Lately regular rough ryder are superior to case. Seems case is on a slippery slope if they don't wake up and get some quality improvements real soon. It's why you can't get GEC's anymore. Demand for a quality knife is up and it's no longer there with case. In my opinion.
I’m hearing that a lot
I have no problem getting a report work knife if I cannot get a gec 47. It’s a pattern used by more that one company like a trapper, stockman, Congress, etc. good review I have three of the rrr. I agree that the work knife would be awesome in a rrr version
great video as always..I wished that boker germany could have been compared too since they have some models in the same price range..I dont own any now but if I had would have sent it out to u
I haven’t really had any modern Bokers unfortunately
I’d say the catch is I think most people who buy case only so for two reasons- they prefer made in the USA and cannot get GEC
Great knife great review but like you I don’t understand the central liner but having said that I’m going to get one and as for Case knives it’s a lottery with the quality unfortunately, I’ve had gaps wobbly blades and transitions. The GEC viper is my favourite I was very lucky to get one.
Did you reserve one of the upcoming Vipers?
@@KnifeThoughts no I’ve got one from the previous run, have you?
Hey I just got in a Brother 1508 it has washers and man its built very nice quality. I didn't get any of the rrr line yet. And I'm not a fan of the match strike pull.
I’d heard their knives have washers but I haven’t had one
Absolutely agree. Something about the match strike pulls look off.
I ordered two brother knives as well the 1508 and the 1503, don't have them yet but i agree, on paper at least they do look very solid knives with great materials.I would like to get the rrr001 model but like gec knives they are realy hard to get if you live outside of the us.
👍 Good review of this knife although we need to agree to disagree on the brass liner between blades. Your general comparisons of these RRR knives to other choices in the marketplace was very helpful and from my experience I agree with your conclusions. I have become very disappointed w/ Great Eastern Cutlery because their knives are basically unavailable as well as expensive.
Looks Like to me the Best "Canoe" EVER!
Albers knife looks interesting too.
Video on it coming soon!
Those look more like modified sheepsfoot and Warncliff blades, than a reverse tanto. But still a nice looking knife.
Is there a such thing as a traditional knife “copy” I can only think of a few such as the case Russlock that are unique to a brand
I agree. The Rough Ryder Work Knife is obviously inspired by the GEC Viper, but it’s not a copy.
I think what's fun about the traditional knife world is that basically they're generally all copies. RR, Case, and GEC didn't invent most of the patterns they're making. Many of the known patterns have been around for 100's of years, and we're ALL digging back through very old illustrated catalogs to find patterns that haven't been made in years. The Triple-R Pattern 3 Swell Center Whittler comes for a 100-year-old catalog illustration of an IXL knife. It's slightly updated by true to the nature of the original pattern. Unless you're inventing something new like the Triple-R Pattern 4 Bar Back, we are ALL going back to knife school and looking at old patterns to make new knives. The Sway Back has been around for generations - it was a loom knife with an odd shape but fantastic feel.
I bought the Kayak, because it was the only one of the three I could get my hands on. I had it out of the tube for perhaps 15 seconds. Then I put it back and returned it to the seller for refund. It's ridiculously thick for the design - you could fit a second pair of blades in the vacant space between the covers (@5:20 illustrates this well) - you make this point too. A pity, because it's nicely made otherwise. I wish makers of pocket knives would remember that pocket knives should fit comfortably in a pocket!
Also, one of the main benefits of the canoe configuration is that the angular spine ends sit within the bolsters when closed, yet this Kayak manages to expose them! Your comparison with the RR Canoe illustrates this perfectly.
Great review - I wish I'd seen it before ordering mine. Still looking for a RRR001, which, being a single-blader, shouldn't have the Kayak's bloated issues. Apart from the lanyard tube (why?) it looks just about perfect.
I understand that Andy at SMKW designed the Kayak himself. I think he should stick to his day job.
Secondary blade is a lambsfoot.
It’s close. I think it’s a mix between a coping and lambfoot
Great review. I really liked the Kayak, materials, blade shapes, fit/finish, operation, but was disappointed that it was thick and heavy compared to what a “canoe” pattern is supposed to be. Also, the back corner of the blade tang is exposed which, again, is not part of a canoe design. Thin and pocketable it is not, when compared with a typical canoe. Center liner, wide blade wells, exposed corner. I did send mine back but it was otherwise fine; just not what was expected.
The blade shapes are lambsfoot
I don’t think they quite qualify, but they’re close.
Case quality has not been as good and it’s almost sad to pathetic that Case had not upgraded their normal stainless steel in the last few years
I think RRR is pretty smart making hard to find GEC patterns. Like if they made a beer scout or even a harness hack they'd sell out. Shoot, even if they started dabling with GITD, I think it'd be extremely popular.
They are better fit and finish than case
I just really wish these were made anywhere but China. Only thing that makes me say "NO" every time at the last moment.
If only
Case's $50-$70 knives have too many fit & finish issues to justify their price. They really need to up their game, for the sake of being Made In The USA.
I agree
Sad how much better these are than GEC and Case.
Now wait a moment.im buying this knife because that knife isn't available. Also the second choice isn't available..
Which is the second choice?
Have had the A.G.Russell for 5years the Rancher i think , i like it but hard for me to sharpen, maybe the 18hrcmov steel.
Just in last couple years it has come out in a pocket clip lockback which is nice as it offers a 1 hand open which the model shown in video & mine can't be opened 1 handed.
I also have it in Red & Black delrin..
They are always out @ AG.
I have sodbuster from case also in their stainless model
I actually like the plain, smooth white bone RR canoe as far as heft and thickness. I realize it doesn't have the prestige the RRR has, with the cool tan micarta scales and the RRR arrowhead, but the Kayak is exactly like the Classic Carbon Canoe.... very thick and ungainly, IMHO. Almost too bulky for EDC. Rough Rider's attempt to run in league with GEC and the other Big Dogs of knife lore is almost comical, with their tube, micro cloth and wax paper wrap. Very unoriginal, as is the reason for the arrowhead.
Over the past year, the "quality" of the case knives I've gotten have been on par or worse than the Rough Ryder knives I've gotten. It's been so bad, I got one Case that had a bent blade, rubbed the liner when closed, huge gaps, the blade wobbles really bad, the bevels on the blade were horrible, it had no tip (think butter knife), and it was packed full of polishing compound. Now, I've been able to fix almost all of its problems but at $60, it shouldn't have been that bad. So for now, I'm done supporting Case. The company is packed full of people who just dont give a crap about their job or the product they're putting out. I'm all for supporting USA Companies but I'm not supporting people who don't care.
GEC is so overhyped it’s not funny.
There's just things about the RRR knives that just turn me off. I hate the big gaps between the blades. I want my traditional knives to look traditional. None of these RRR knives remind of a knife from 100 years ago. Most of the GEC and even Case knives do.
Where are they made? I just will not support the CCP. Please comment.
They’re made in China. Pretty sure I mentioned it in the video, maybe not though Idk.
The reason I will not be buying them.
@@KnifeThoughts Thank You
Ditto. NO BUY on CCP knives.