It’s interesting how we are so "accommodating" with tolerances and quality in general when comes to a €/$10K bicycle, yet we demand much stricter tolerances on equivalent priced vehicles like motorbikes, or indeed anything else... it’s time so called "premium" bicycle manufactures get their quality up to same level as their marketing and sales. Kudos to @Hambini for keeping it real…
Maybe because of scale of production? Because I’m sure that the demand for bike parts are as high as motorbikes and cars. I’m sure that everyone needs a road use bicycle as much as they need their car.
This is also just marketing, its just the kind that appeals to you. Explaining their tolerances to justify pricing around 8x ($200) the normal BB is marketing as much as shimano mass producing a pretty good bb for $30 and sponsoring MVDP
@@janeztomazic5546 no, and while my comment didn’t make the distinction super clear, I didn’t say that. There are many ways to market. Sponsoring the fast guy and getting brand in front of eyes, and making people pick the shimano bike with whatever bb is in there, is just as much marketing as making TH-cam campaigns explaining how your BB is 10-50 microns more accurately manufactured in exchange for an 800% price increase
@@zachcalton3199 if you are talking about hambini BB, only bearings are worth 100USD and its not only microns is also the quality and stiffness, I have the BB30 one and am not sorry I bought it. I ll always take the quality of product over the "fast guy has it"
Material: Sent a sample to contacts at an undisclosed US government location in a desert and they confirmed that it is not a standard ASTM aluminium alloy. It seems to be a bespoke alloy found in certain turbine engine structures. Aerospace industry refers to it as "Hambinium."
I must commend Peak Torque for this type of review. We are usually bamboozled by buzz words from the bike industry but this is quite raw, hard facts presented. Really good, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
The Hambini BB solved my BB issues. No more creaking or binding. Significantly extended lifespan compared to the individual cup BBs I had used. Great customer service. None of the previous BB's lasted for more than four months. I'd gladly buy another Hambini BB for my other bikes.
@@OptimusSatanas 1,000 miles per day or sat in the shed doing nothing. Also, you threw an insult while being unsure. Don't do that if you don't want to look stupid.
I had Dura Ace, then Wheels Mfg, and now a Hambini BB in my Canyon bike. The Hambini was absolutely noticeable in making my frame a bit stiffer when pedaling at higher power. My bike also doesn't creak anymore.
Bravo to Peak Torque for showing us the Geometric Tolerances (GD&T properly as well as his inspection setup for measuring those features (total runout). As a manufacturing/ machining person i appreciated that. Well done!
I would say you have it backwards on the machining side of things. Judging by the distribution of high and low spots on the side with the flange, considering you have more than one per revolution, this is the side that has been fixed in the lathe. The fixture that has been used caused a slight deformation while the part is turned. Deflection on the free end of a part usually causes a taper... This is just an armchair observation of course. Love what hambini is doing, even though he might be harsh at times.
I find him to be pretty coarse which left me thinking him to be a bit of a twat initially but I have since warmed to him, and realised that it's just who he is and isn't really meant maliciously.
When a british person says "really really good" or "pretty damn good" that is the equivalent of any other person saying it's best in class or the best you can find etc.
I have a Hambini BB in my Cervelo R5 2016. I had to have a custom one as Cervelo take a rather cavalier approach to standards. Hambini got me to measure my frame and the BB went in perfectly. It’s spins like silk even after quite a few thousand miles ( certainly more than 7,000) it’s brilliant and I think it’s worth the money.
@@topher.m I absolutely love my Cervelo R5. The third R5 frame I’ve had. The first I crashed and broke so I bought a replacement. That was out of alignment and Cervelo gave me a replacement. That has been superb. Unfortunately although the BB shell is round and concentric it is undersized. Certainly makes it difficult to insert or remove an off the shelf replacement. I have found the Hambini BB solves this problem. I’ve done over 21,000miles on this frame and probably over 10,000 on the previous two. I can’t say I’m the fan of the more recent Cervelo disc bikes. I didn’t like the changes they mad to the geometry. Probably suits some people.
I think you and Hambini are a perfect team. Your reserve and his.....mmmmm..."Eloquence" seems a match made in heaven. it would be a interesting to see some collaborations.
Edit: maybe the video was too short for some of your Hambinites. Some more detail - This BB is by no means a feat of engineering, it's just a tube with 4 toleranced and concentric diameters. However, it is very well made. It will be orders of magnitude better than a carbon BB shell in terms of diameter control and concentricity. Concentricity is the key to bearing life, low drag, and being kind to the spindle. Such as the standards we're subjected to in this sport, we appear to be crowing over something normal and just well made. Do i need one? No. Fortunately my bikes' BB shells are well controlled and I've never had any problems with the plastic 2 piece stock options (either Shimano or gxp). One is still original from 2017! If you 'need' this BB to correct a bad frame, consider your frame choice or warranty options. Negatives. Not many but if your frame is *really* bad and is too tight on it's shell, pushing this in is quite intrusive. You need to be aware of the hoop stress you're imparting on the frame's fibres. You don't want it to ream it's way in. Disclosure: Mr Hambini did not know i was making this video. Joe (China Cycling) sent me it for some basic QC.
Would love to see you do similar testing on hubshells (are DT swiss, for example, better than others... both exotic/expensive like WI, CarbonTi, i9 and standard/cheap like Bitex, Novatec)
It's kind of expensive but if its only made one by one at different specs it will cost alot. As a machinist I can say the problems comes when you do the backside, the first operation is machine the outside an inner diameters. After that it must be flipped to do the last bearing surface after straighting it up with a indicator. And also soft backs is needed not to get marks.
Thanks for the excellent review. Do you think this device can be used to check the alignment and roundness of the BB in newly-manufactured carbon frames? Regards, Gerrard.
Any chance you can make a similar video testing an off the shelf shimano equivalent? Forgive me if you have already done this, I had a quick look but couldn't find it.
I guess what I'd really like to know is how well within tolerance it stays once it's fitted to a frame (imperfect or otherwise). I own one of the PF30 to BB30 version and I think it's a great bit of kit and with the SKF MTRX bearings I'm hoping that the setup will last a few Scottish winters on the cross bike.
@@AquaPrince27 that's a pretty terrible lifespan so it better be better than that. I got over 40k miles on a BBinfinite before repacking and it was still pretty good at that point
So one flanged end, what stops the shell drifting out the frame?? Considering most frames people are going to buy this for are likely to have creaking issues and therefore sloppy fit.
Just stumbled onto the great Hambini and I am about to watch this review. I have an S-Works Tarmac SL-4, which I built at the start of 2014. I moved my SRM (Shimano) to the new frame so I needed a non-standard BB or use the sleeves that came with the frameset. I went with the Praxis Works BB and this thing has been solid. It's still going strong.
You have to take your cable guides out on a tcr or the center sleeve crushes them, also the cable guide won't go in properly, however mine still works fine albeit the inner cables rattle in frame now in small ring
Great video. How would this compare with a Dura Ace BB in tolerances, bearings etc? Or is it just a "better design" for frames with imperfect tolerances? I gather pro teams favour Hambini BBs so if you have money & watts...
I don't know how it would compare to a standard Shimano BB in terms of tolerances - good question. I suspect that BB tolerances on Shimano parts (from Tiagra/Alivio up) will be worse than this, but still way better than the frame. A better BB isn't going to do anything (other than possibly have slightly longer lasting bearings) if the frame tolerances are bad.
From what I can gather after watching hours and hours of hambini the actual savings is probably single to low double digit watts at any sort of achievable speed, but its mostly about not getting creeking noises and to get the BB bearings to last for the designed lifetime.
The tolerances bearings are made to are incredibly tight. Its not likely that there will be any issues there. Now a test of the crank spindle- that could be interesting.
The ZTTO company went a step further with the Threaded BB 386, BB30 with double O rings to make sure any vibrations are not amplified by the carbon BB area. They actually did a very good job "copying the gasket design :o)" at making not only installation super easy as both sides press in together by threading them slowly but the simpler design of 2 pieces means pressing it in leaves less damage and less forces applied to the BB carbon area cup faces versus the one piece Hambini or Wheels Manufacturing ones.
Yes. You can use a live center in the end away from the chuck to support it whilst turning the OD. You then switch to a steady rest whilst machining the ID. You'd almost eliminate the tool deflection and the consequent 0.02mm runout. BUT.... These extra setups take more machine time and would bump the cost up significantly!
@@northerngreg I remember Hambini saying that the material either resists compression better than expansion or the other way around. So there is a gain to had by machining either OD first or the ID. I just can't remember which it was.
9:05 I remember in one of his video (about open cycle triying to sue him), that Hambini said 0.05mm was what he would expect from bicycle manufacturers in term of concentricity tolerance
Your point at the end, "whether you need one is up to you"; how do you know if you need one? If you're racing, whether its bike racing or triathlon and you have a list of different potential products on which to spend your cash, where does one of these BB's fit on that list? Obviously its going to depend on how crap your current BB is but as a rule of thumb, how does one of these BB's compare to other potential additions to your steed.
@@PeakTorque I wondered about that. For an internal hub? If so, a discussion on the substantial losses (10% pwr loss being typical on at least one major brand) vs the 5% loss in another name brand would be fascinating. As in auto mechanics, when the internal planetary set is locked to the case (overdrive at 1:1...straight feed-through) losses are virtually zero. It is outside of racing nerd, but is completely inside engineering nerdness. Would love to see a vid and discussion on that, something very rarely seen outside of mech engineering sites.
My thoughts exactly. From my metalworking experience it is much easier to achieve close, repeatable tolerances on a CNC. Manual Lathes leave a lot of space for human error (slide spindle backlash, tool setup, dirty toolpost during tool changes, bad depth of cur during roughing or finishing etc.). You can also tell that this HAS in fact been manufactured on a CNC Lathe. If you look at the chamfers you can tell that they were cut with a small cutting edge. On a manual lathe you would use a angled lathe tool with one relatively long, continuous edge unless you want to re-angle your compound which requires an annoying amount of time to do precisely.
really helpful info for us bike noobs trying to make good consumer choices! Honestly so fucking grateful. I like to do my research before spending big on tools. been thinking a trek carbon sport, but im probs getting a look bike now. Amazing reviews !
@@PeakTorque People care about quality until it gets in the way of features or rock bottom price. When most brands have their frames produced under contract by a third party, it's no surprise.
If it's 10 times the cost of an OEM-spec BB, you've got the choice of running the Hambini into the ground or having regularly refreshed bearings. A PF cup is typically plastic, so you've got something slightly compressible between the cartridge bearing and the not-perfectly-round shell in the frame. This could mean the deviations in the shell don't distort the bearing too much, whereas with the alu body of the Hambini, you've got a fight between shell, BB body and bearing and one of them needs to give way. Yes, a compressible bearing carrier means you might get some interesting torque across each bearing that translates into additional axial load, but is that going to wear the OEM BB more or less than 10 times faster than Hambini's BB?
At the beginning of the pandemic I bought an older Moots with BB30. Had it not come with a King already installed, I would have purchased a Hambini just to get ahead of the shortcomings of BB30. This was an excellent review and thanks for doing it.
I have 3000 miles on the one I put into my Canyon. Hambini did a review of a Canyon frame and it did do well. I bought Hambini bracket because the creaking on the OEM bracket was driving nuts.
@@PeakTorque Ha! While I'm here though I do have a general MTB kinematic request. Loads of info out there on ratio, leverage rate, anti squat etc but not a lot on anti rise. What is the optimum amount? How does a riders weight/centre of mass effect the kinematic numbers? What do dirt bikes/motorbikes do? It probably won't interest many people apart from bell ends like me but maybe in ten years you'll be out of ideas.
@@gweflj suspension's a tricky one with so much of it coming down to terrain plus rider style and preference. But I am with you on getting more mtb oriented engineering talk on here as I've loved racing everything from DH to TT's over the years, I love it all its all good to me.
@@jonnythelegs2597 Totally agree. I love it all too. Even the racing sail boats as those things are pure engineering porn. I agree it's terrain/rider specific to a degree but I think the rider can rider around low anti squat numbers with high/smooth cadence but anti rise is an odd one. Is 100% anti rise, so the suspension compresses under braking keeping the geometry more static with the trade off of being deeper in the higher resistive suspension stroke and the decrease in braking grip. Or do you want a lower number causing the suspension to extend and forcing the bike to pitch around the front contact patch (both brakes applied) but remaining more sensitive to grip, and ultimately braking that is more independent of kinematics? What do other vehicles do? I go back and forth with what I think makes the most sense even though high anti rise bikes feel harsh through the pedals while braking my 67kg mass. Is that a rider weight thing? Would love to know.
@@gweflj when you say anti rise i assume you're referring to the rear pitching upwards as your weight shifts forwards under braking and ergo down as the fork compresses. What setup are you using at the mo?
Well I didn’t see that conclusion coming from the way the video started! I’ve ordered 2 of these for 2 of my bikes and will be ordering more in due course. Squeaky bike no longer squeaking! Oh and you’ve reminded me I’ve not left a review either, will add mine to the list of 5 stars
@Nick Maclachlan I agree with everything you say after your first sentence: "It's neither really." This is where I disagree: if bicycle prices were reasonable for the quality of engineering encountered, I would - like you - discount the greed motive. With them being where they are - a "good" bike costing as much as a motorbike, and a top-of-the-line one costing as much as a small car, I really have an issue with dismissing greed as a cause of some of the issues.
High quality engineering such as in the defence industry, aerospace or F1 areas, is a costly business. Machine setup requires time consuming care by skilled operators, the post machining QC checks (not statistical probability but individual examination) is time consuming and costly, and reject rates can be high.
It's really easy to make a handful of very expensive things. A lot harder to make lots of relatively expensive things... I don't think people really appreciate this about mass manufacture.
Paid £175 for mine. Flawless for the last twelve months. I stick 1800w through bracket at some point though sprint. Never been a problem with this bracket.
@Red Lobster Skull pity I can't send you a screenshot from my garmin you prick. Silver medalist individual pursuit. 4th kilo. 5th points race. East Midlands sprnt pursuit road race champion . Gent 6 rider. Expert 250 mx rider. Pro jet ski racer. Midlands bodybuilder. Do one you non achiever.
@FITNESSOVER45 just a sprint peak. What's the laughing memes for? You've no idea who i am. Obviously what's impossible for you isn't for me. You're obviously questioning whilst not knowing who I am.
First, start off with a 3 jaw chuck with worn-out jaws that taper out. Imagine sticking a straight rod through the center of a cone. The stock material will naturally teeter-totter about the line contact points. This will be your easiest bet to intentionally cause runout. Next, stick out the part as far as you can possibly stick out. The further away from the clamping point the more leverage the cutting forces has to deflect the stock material. This will greatly aid in causing more runout. Rough and finish the inside dimensions. Then rough out all the OD features with a nice high-feed positive lead angle turning insert for that aggressive radial cutting force. Don't bother going back with a finishing tool. We're shooting for incredible amounts of runout. For additional runout, we can install an expanding mandrel or arbor fixture we used from a previous job but don't bother at all about how it goes back into the spindle. Thus naturally we can assume there will runout on the fixture. Now every part that now goes on said fixture will have at least this amount of runout 'imprinted' on to it. In summary. There's a lot of reasons why one side is nice and the other is out. What exactly took place isn't something we can determine without looking at how Hambini's fixturing and machining parameters. I'm don't know how thin the aluminum piece is but I don't think it's farfetched to think something happened during the press of the bearings as well.
I am missing the part about how these tolerances won't matter in a potato frame. Since this is a single unit, and the bearings are aligned with each other in reference to the surfaces in the shell and not the frame (as is the case in a lot of press fit bikes) the tight tolerances of this unit should have significant impact in sureness of bearing efficiency/longevity...right? This product is developed in reaction to poor alignment of bearings which is common in frames, this should align the bearings correctly, or am I missing something?
You are correct. The idea of this bottom bracket is that it help persuade the frame during installation such that your final bearing alignment will be decent.
No it disny! No such thing as precision, thats just a subjective term. Engineering 101 here as you get down to a certain level of tolerance you just look closer to see the imperfections and notice 2 things can never be made the exact same.. "trust me i know what im doing !" LoL 🤣 (only i will get that joke lol)
@@PeakTorque looking forward to it. Found it interesting on the one you’ve done already about how the leg speed in relation to what crank length you have. Personally I think there’s a bit more to crank length, rather than people just saying you put the same watts out etc. Leg speed is important and it looks like it gives you a slight advantage. Look forward to it
I tested 170,175,180 and 185mm. For me 180 and 185 feel better than 175mm. Even after 6 months on 175mm, the 180mm felt better. I don't think there's much a different in maximum power. My average cadans was on all lengths the same. Every person is different, so it will be difficult to conclude something that can be used by others.
You can't compare concentricity of a one piece BB to a two-piece cup design. The two piece relies on the frames BB shell being very good. In my experience (with Giant tcrs), its very good and a two-piece design works fine.
Thanks PT seems like I need to add you H & Luescher to my list of friends as its all I can do to fit a BB90 to my Trek. Imagine spending £10k on a bike and then finding any of you or the others videos. Might have to just go back to walking as Running you find you need a particular designed shoe or you need orthotics etc etc.
Small handmade parts have got to be better than mass production CNC stuff. Good to see that hambinis done it the way it should be done. Question is we should all be doing this instead of buy stuff.
Is that shop actually yours? If so, I’m actually impressed it really looks like a professional measurement laboratory from a multimillion dollar manufacturing plant, I worked in one of those, forget about letting someone using them for a quick video.
I have some questions. What is the total runnout of the inner surface of the two bearings as installed? And, I put at least 20000 miles on the standard threaded bb on my 1982 Trek with absolutely no trouble. I took it apart and greased it once a year (possibly less often then that). Why did the tech get so crazy? I understand carbon bikes have different needs but this is insane.
This is a year late, but here goes. Threaded interfaces posed a particular challenge to carbon fiber structures--basically you have to embed a metallic structure in the carbon structure to thread. The cycling industry convinced the consumers that pressed bearings are unequivocally better than threaded bearing cups for a few minutes. In ideal circumstances, a pressed in bearing can be as structurally sound, and slightly more energy and mass efficient than the threaded case. The threaded interfaces have very high fault tolerance in comparison. The bearing press fit is also easier control because it is achieved at the cup rather than at the entire frame. In short, the threaded interface follows AK-47 thinking: dump a handful of sand in it, throw it off the back of a truck, insult it's mother, and it probably will still work. Press fits require ideal conditions that the profit margins of the cycling industry rarely allow.
I'll send you the cash later!
HaterrrrrrrRRRRRZZZZ
Hambini has spoken!
😂😂 you made me scare my cat I had to laugh out so hard 😂😂
Ugandan dollars or Cayman banks only please.
@@PeakTorque I've made a note.
It’s interesting how we are so "accommodating" with tolerances and quality in general when comes to a €/$10K bicycle, yet we demand much stricter tolerances on equivalent priced vehicles like motorbikes, or indeed anything else... it’s time so called "premium" bicycle manufactures get their quality up to same level as their marketing and sales. Kudos to @Hambini for keeping it real…
or perhaps stop selling them at a price that is not even close to being representative of the product
Take notice Specialized.
Maybe because of scale of production?
Because I’m sure that the demand for bike parts are as high as motorbikes and cars. I’m sure that everyone needs a road use bicycle as much as they need their car.
Look at F.P.Journe’s dial, Rolexes’ hands. So much for “premium” BS
@@87togabito given the global climate disaster everyone DOES need a bicycle and not their car...
Congrats to Hambini for making the world's most tightly toleranced fleshlight. I'm sure his mother is proud.
I think Hambini would approve of this comment
I'll be honest, I'm a metric man but watching a lot of This Old Tony. Had to convert microns back into thousandths to picture it.
Those that mean that Hambini is a (fleshlight) mother....?
@@davidmarshall2399 you can picture thousandths?
@@c.j.burtwell8430 not in an absolute sense, but relatively when talking about tolerances.
I like engineers checking engineers. So tired of the marketing hyperbole.
This is just a different kind of marketing 👍🏾
This is also just marketing, its just the kind that appeals to you. Explaining their tolerances to justify pricing around 8x ($200) the normal BB is marketing as much as shimano mass producing a pretty good bb for $30 and sponsoring MVDP
@@zachcalton3199 you think MVDP is running a 30$ BB ?
@@janeztomazic5546 no, and while my comment didn’t make the distinction super clear, I didn’t say that. There are many ways to market. Sponsoring the fast guy and getting brand in front of eyes, and making people pick the shimano bike with whatever bb is in there, is just as much marketing as making TH-cam campaigns explaining how your BB is 10-50 microns more accurately manufactured in exchange for an 800% price increase
@@zachcalton3199 if you are talking about hambini BB, only bearings are worth 100USD and its not only microns is also the quality and stiffness, I have the BB30 one and am not sorry I bought it.
I ll always take the quality of product over the "fast guy has it"
They say you can judge a man by the roundness of his hole
WeirdChamp
Pog comment
and the wholeness of his round
Material: Sent a sample to contacts at an undisclosed US government location in a desert and they confirmed that it is not a standard ASTM aluminium alloy. It seems to be a bespoke alloy found in certain turbine engine structures. Aerospace industry refers to it as "Hambinium."
Brilliant
But did they not spell it "Hambinum"? And thus, pronounce it differently? ;)
Impressive review, really eye opening and informative. Loving the detailed, in-depth technical assessment of this. Great stuff!
I must commend Peak Torque for this type of review. We are usually bamboozled by buzz words from the bike industry but this is quite raw, hard facts presented. Really good, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
His review is flawed. I explained in the comments above whether you understand the engineering counterpoint or not.
@@lukewalker1051 how is it flawed. cant find your comment...
I didn’t think 5 year olds were capable of such engineering marvel. Well done! ^_^
The Hambini BB solved my BB issues. No more creaking or binding. Significantly extended lifespan compared to the individual cup BBs I had used. Great customer service. None of the previous BB's lasted for more than four months. I'd gladly buy another Hambini BB for my other bikes.
Hambini is not cheap and you have not stated what 4 months means ?
@@BantonOrg this is non-sensical
@@BantonOrg 4 months means 4 months yah knob. Not sure what you arent understanding...
@@OptimusSatanas 1,000 miles per day or sat in the shed doing nothing. Also, you threw an insult while being unsure. Don't do that if you don't want to look stupid.
@@BantonOrg The unsureness has to do with your not having a valid argument. Its not due to any deficit on my end lil pal.
I had Dura Ace, then Wheels Mfg, and now a Hambini BB in my Canyon bike. The Hambini was absolutely noticeable in making my frame a bit stiffer when pedaling at higher power. My bike also doesn't creak anymore.
It's better if we saw a Chris King or other high end BB to compare with the Hambini, nice opinion and review 👍
BB Shootout!
I bought Hambini bb for my cannondale bb30a it was brilliant. Other bbs wouldn't even fit properly . Kept it when I sold frame just incase
Bravo to Peak Torque for showing us the Geometric Tolerances (GD&T properly as well as his inspection setup for measuring those features (total runout). As a manufacturing/ machining person i appreciated that. Well done!
I would say you have it backwards on the machining side of things. Judging by the distribution of high and low spots on the side with the flange, considering you have more than one per revolution, this is the side that has been fixed in the lathe. The fixture that has been used caused a slight deformation while the part is turned.
Deflection on the free end of a part usually causes a taper...
This is just an armchair observation of course.
Love what hambini is doing, even though he might be harsh at times.
I find him to be pretty coarse which left me thinking him to be a bit of a twat initially but I have since warmed to him, and realised that it's just who he is and isn't really meant maliciously.
When a british person says "really really good" or "pretty damn good" that is the equivalent of any other person saying it's best in class or the best you can find etc.
Yeh we're a miserable bunch most of the time. That's why i left
The British compliment is "that's not bad".
@@peterlucas5634 the north german one: "it´s quite ok."
It's far beyond "not to bad" indeed
or an American saying "It's awesome!! whilst wearing back to front baseball cap and sporting a manicured beard....
Henceforth please show your calculations on ruling paper with a Princess Blanket watermark, thank you.
I have a Hambini BB in my Cervelo R5 2016. I had to have a custom one as Cervelo take a rather cavalier approach to standards. Hambini got me to measure my frame and the BB went in perfectly. It’s spins like silk even after quite a few thousand miles ( certainly more than 7,000) it’s brilliant and I think it’s worth the money.
Please don’t talk ill of Cervelo. They are the ducks nuts. Please delete the comment immediately. #dontyouknowtheyrewatchingus?
@@topher.m I absolutely love my Cervelo R5. The third R5 frame I’ve had. The first I crashed and broke so I bought a replacement. That was out of alignment and Cervelo gave me a replacement. That has been superb. Unfortunately although the BB shell is round and concentric it is undersized. Certainly makes it difficult to insert or remove an off the shelf replacement. I have found the Hambini BB solves this problem. I’ve done over 21,000miles on this frame and probably over 10,000 on the previous two. I can’t say I’m the fan of the more recent Cervelo disc bikes. I didn’t like the changes they mad to the geometry. Probably suits some people.
@@topher.m Cervelo, overpriced crap
@@mixalis6168 Agreed, ill never own a sir Velo again.
I think you and Hambini are a perfect team. Your reserve and his.....mmmmm..."Eloquence" seems a match made in heaven. it would be a interesting to see some collaborations.
Can't wait to put this perfect BB in my Potato carbon frame.
bruh i spat my coffee everywhere (use to think my Cervelo was the lick)
now even with a visual inspection i can see whats wrong with my frame
Edit: maybe the video was too short for some of your Hambinites. Some more detail - This BB is by no means a feat of engineering, it's just a tube with 4 toleranced and concentric diameters. However, it is very well made. It will be orders of magnitude better than a carbon BB shell in terms of diameter control and concentricity. Concentricity is the key to bearing life, low drag, and being kind to the spindle. Such as the standards we're subjected to in this sport, we appear to be crowing over something normal and just well made.
Do i need one? No. Fortunately my bikes' BB shells are well controlled and I've never had any problems with the plastic 2 piece stock options (either Shimano or gxp). One is still original from 2017! If you 'need' this BB to correct a bad frame, consider your frame choice or warranty options.
Negatives. Not many but if your frame is *really* bad and is too tight on it's shell, pushing this in is quite intrusive. You need to be aware of the hoop stress you're imparting on the frame's fibres. You don't want it to ream it's way in.
Disclosure: Mr Hambini did not know i was making this video. Joe (China Cycling) sent me it for some basic QC.
@Peak Torque Surprised you didn't use Dr instead of Mr
Good to know! 👍
Sometimes, just being very well-made is a feat all in itself.
There was also insufficient PowerPoint
Your clickbait title is very misleading. Sounds like his customers are satisfied. For all we know your measurement tools could be out of spec.
Would love to see you do similar testing on hubshells (are DT swiss, for example, better than others... both exotic/expensive like WI, CarbonTi, i9 and standard/cheap like Bitex, Novatec)
I wish my brain worked like this. I'm going to buy a $400 Velobuild frame and stick one of these in it. Thanks Hambini!
Worked like what? He's only using a dial guage and V-block to measure a cyclindrical object. It's hardly rocket science.
Always nice to see someone pass peer review so well
It's kind of expensive but if its only made one by one at different specs it will cost alot. As a machinist I can say the problems comes when you do the backside, the first operation is machine the outside an inner diameters. After that it must be flipped to do the last bearing surface after straighting it up with a indicator. And also soft backs is needed not to get marks.
Great info. Cheers
Use a collet chuck. Better repeatability and gentler on the part.
@@web1bastler or run an sdz back boring bar and do it all in one chucking.
Thanks for the excellent review. Do you think this device can be used to check the alignment and roundness of the BB in newly-manufactured carbon frames? Regards, Gerrard.
G's running 3T robot made frames now; curious to see if Italian bots make a better hole than Chinese children...
Any chance you can make a similar video testing an off the shelf shimano equivalent?
Forgive me if you have already done this, I had a quick look but couldn't find it.
I guess what I'd really like to know is how well within tolerance it stays once it's fitted to a frame (imperfect or otherwise). I own one of the PF30 to BB30 version and I think it's a great bit of kit and with the SKF MTRX bearings I'm hoping that the setup will last a few Scottish winters on the cross bike.
I’d guess it’s gonna last at least 5 years on a bike being ridden 100 miles a month
@@AquaPrince27 that's a pretty terrible lifespan so it better be better than that. I got over 40k miles on a BBinfinite before repacking and it was still pretty good at that point
I love it. My anonymous source - Joe from China Cycling.
You and Joe realize hambini is going to be even more insufferable now (if that were possible)
Yeah boy, just what I need after my ride
"reviewed by a five year old maritime engineer "
So one flanged end, what stops the shell drifting out the frame?? Considering most frames people are going to buy this for are likely to have creaking issues and therefore sloppy fit.
Just stumbled onto the great Hambini and I am about to watch this review. I have an S-Works Tarmac SL-4, which I built at the start of 2014. I moved my SRM (Shimano) to the new frame so I needed a non-standard BB or use the sleeves that came with the frameset.
I went with the Praxis Works BB and this thing has been solid. It's still going strong.
Im using a Praxxis BB in 2014 sl4 too. Like you say, solid. Never creaked.
You have to take your cable guides out on a tcr or the center sleeve crushes them, also the cable guide won't go in properly, however mine still works fine albeit the inner cables rattle in frame now in small ring
In comments you state you have an original bb from 2017 fitted on one of your bikes? How many km have you done and type of rides on said bike?
I’d rather buy that than a Rapha shirt 😂 nice work lads 🤘🏻
realy incredibile the amout of large and extra large cycling gear that on for sale
If you're buying your own Rapha....as opposed to someone to whom Rapha gives the stuff ...
Hi,
Do you think angular bearing are worth it for Shimano Ultegra crank?
Thanks.
Are you going to replace your Sram gxp bb with this on the tcr?
No. No way. I've never had problem with the plastic bbs on TCR.
Great video. How would this compare with a Dura Ace BB in tolerances, bearings etc? Or is it just a "better design" for frames with imperfect tolerances? I gather pro teams favour Hambini BBs so if you have money & watts...
I don't know how it would compare to a standard Shimano BB in terms of tolerances - good question. I suspect that BB tolerances on Shimano parts (from Tiagra/Alivio up) will be worse than this, but still way better than the frame. A better BB isn't going to do anything (other than possibly have slightly longer lasting bearings) if the frame tolerances are bad.
Exactly how many more percents faster, compliant, aero, stiffer, feels good and lighter is it than other BBs?
Zero
From what I can gather after watching hours and hours of hambini the actual savings is probably single to low double digit watts at any sort of achievable speed, but its mostly about not getting creeking noises and to get the BB bearings to last for the designed lifetime.
Part of me wonders about doing a roll out test on the interior surface of the bearing that would contact the crank spindle ...
The tolerances bearings are made to are incredibly tight. Its not likely that there will be any issues there. Now a test of the crank spindle- that could be interesting.
The ZTTO company went a step further with the Threaded BB 386, BB30 with double O rings to make sure any vibrations are not amplified by the carbon BB area. They actually did a very good job "copying the gasket design :o)" at making not only installation super easy as both sides press in together by threading them slowly but the simpler design of 2 pieces means pressing it in leaves less damage and less forces applied to the BB carbon area cup faces versus the one piece Hambini or Wheels Manufacturing ones.
Can the part be clamped at both ends on the lathe when machining the external surface and would there be any improvement?
Yes. You can use a live center in the end away from the chuck to support it whilst turning the OD. You then switch to a steady rest whilst machining the ID. You'd almost eliminate the tool deflection and the consequent 0.02mm runout. BUT.... These extra setups take more machine time and would bump the cost up significantly!
@@northerngreg I remember Hambini saying that the material either resists compression better than expansion or the other way around. So there is a gain to had by machining either OD first or the ID. I just can't remember which it was.
9:05 I remember in one of his video (about open cycle triying to sue him), that Hambini said 0.05mm was what he would expect from bicycle manufacturers in term of concentricity tolerance
You should do the same test on the BBinfinite ones. Like same model one for comparison it would be interesting to see
Thanks for this excellent video!!! My faith in Hambini was not misplaced...
Your point at the end, "whether you need one is up to you"; how do you know if you need one? If you're racing, whether its bike racing or triathlon and you have a list of different potential products on which to spend your cash, where does one of these BB's fit on that list? Obviously its going to depend on how crap your current BB is but as a rule of thumb, how does one of these BB's compare to other potential additions to your steed.
9:33 is that from a harmonic drive strain wave gear bearing?
Nope. This is a ring gear for a custom planetary gear.
@@PeakTorque I wondered about that. For an internal hub? If so, a discussion on the substantial losses (10% pwr loss being typical on at least one major brand) vs the 5% loss in another name brand would be fascinating. As in auto mechanics, when the internal planetary set is locked to the case (overdrive at 1:1...straight feed-through) losses are virtually zero.
It is outside of racing nerd, but is completely inside engineering nerdness. Would love to see a vid and discussion on that, something very rarely seen outside of mech engineering sites.
Not hard to get tight tolerance on a CNC , it's probably held in a collet in stead of a chuck so you have more even pressure on the bar .
My thoughts exactly. From my metalworking experience it is much easier to achieve close, repeatable tolerances on a CNC. Manual Lathes leave a lot of space for human error (slide spindle backlash, tool setup, dirty toolpost during tool changes, bad depth of cur during roughing or finishing etc.). You can also tell that this HAS in fact been manufactured on a CNC Lathe. If you look at the chamfers you can tell that they were cut with a small cutting edge. On a manual lathe you would use a angled lathe tool with one relatively long, continuous edge unless you want to re-angle your compound which requires an annoying amount of time to do precisely.
Will the needle on that gauge go all the way around?
yeah they can turn round multiple times
Even have the mic holder. Nice
really helpful info for us bike noobs trying to make good consumer choices! Honestly so fucking grateful. I like to do my research before spending big on tools. been thinking a trek carbon sport, but im probs getting a look bike now. Amazing reviews !
Refreshing to see that hambini knows what he's talking about! Especially as he gives out so much flak... Good video
Rightfully so for dishout out flak for substandard products being sold at eye watering levels. Cervelo anybody?
interesting, maybe do a cooperation? Scare the big brands into better quality?
People don't care about actual quality, they just want a bunch of Specialized engineers spewing marketing copy.
@@drunken_moose I'm not sure they *want* that. It's just become the norm.
@@PeakTorque People care about quality until it gets in the way of features or rock bottom price. When most brands have their frames produced under contract by a third party, it's no surprise.
If it's 10 times the cost of an OEM-spec BB, you've got the choice of running the Hambini into the ground or having regularly refreshed bearings.
A PF cup is typically plastic, so you've got something slightly compressible between the cartridge bearing and the not-perfectly-round shell in the frame. This could mean the deviations in the shell don't distort the bearing too much, whereas with the alu body of the Hambini, you've got a fight between shell, BB body and bearing and one of them needs to give way. Yes, a compressible bearing carrier means you might get some interesting torque across each bearing that translates into additional axial load, but is that going to wear the OEM BB more or less than 10 times faster than Hambini's BB?
@@EmyrDerfel a properly machined bottom bracket would not cost 10x to mass produce. That's just bullshit
So, it’s the Lick!? Thanks for bringing us the most polite and measured language on a Hambini review, ever🤬😖
I can only agree with this comment. When I play a Hambini vid my wife scouls and strongly suggest I watch something more edifying....😀
At the beginning of the pandemic I bought an older Moots with BB30. Had it not come with a King already installed, I would have purchased a Hambini just to get ahead of the shortcomings of BB30. This was an excellent review and thanks for doing it.
I have 3000 miles on the one I put into my Canyon. Hambini did a review of a Canyon frame and it did do well. I bought Hambini bracket because the creaking on the OEM bracket was driving nuts.
"the frame you're pushing it into will be a bag of shite". One thing at a time I think.
can't you support this part from both ends so there is no flex when machining?
I think you are saying it's "The Lick", not a sh@* bag! The four dislikes are from GCN, cycling news and Cervelo
Good to know the bumgut of Satan makes a quality product. I kind of agree though, what’s the point when it’s going in a wizards sleeve.
How succinct you are in your appraisal. Can you do my scripts?
@@PeakTorque Ha! While I'm here though I do have a general MTB kinematic request. Loads of info out there on ratio, leverage rate, anti squat etc but not a lot on anti rise. What is the optimum amount? How does a riders weight/centre of mass effect the kinematic numbers? What do dirt bikes/motorbikes do? It probably won't interest many people apart from bell ends like me but maybe in ten years you'll be out of ideas.
@@gweflj suspension's a tricky one with so much of it coming down to terrain plus rider style and preference. But I am with you on getting more mtb oriented engineering talk on here as I've loved racing everything from DH to TT's over the years, I love it all its all good to me.
@@jonnythelegs2597 Totally agree. I love it all too. Even the racing sail boats as those things are pure engineering porn. I agree it's terrain/rider specific to a degree but I think the rider can rider around low anti squat numbers with high/smooth cadence but anti rise is an odd one. Is 100% anti rise, so the suspension compresses under braking keeping the geometry more static with the trade off of being deeper in the higher resistive suspension stroke and the decrease in braking grip. Or do you want a lower number causing the suspension to extend and forcing the bike to pitch around the front contact patch (both brakes applied) but remaining more sensitive to grip, and ultimately braking that is more independent of kinematics? What do other vehicles do? I go back and forth with what I think makes the most sense even though high anti rise bikes feel harsh through the pedals while braking my 67kg mass. Is that a rider weight thing? Would love to know.
@@gweflj when you say anti rise i assume you're referring to the rear pitching upwards as your weight shifts forwards under braking and ergo down as the fork compresses. What setup are you using at the mo?
Well I didn’t see that conclusion coming from the way the video started!
I’ve ordered 2 of these for 2 of my bikes and will be ordering more in due course. Squeaky bike no longer squeaking! Oh and you’ve reminded me I’ve not left a review either, will add mine to the list of 5 stars
Hambini is zero tolerance guy! Lol.
May I know the fit tolerance for carbon frame's body shell? (Roundness n Diameter tolerance)
As you said at the end of the video, it's horses for courses. I normally have to find "economic solutions" rather than spending to victory
Another quality vid thank you.
Hambini performance plumbing! He makes a great product like the major manufacturers could have done but were too lazy.
I suspect it's more about greed than laziness
@Nick Maclachlan I agree with everything you say after your first sentence:
"It's neither really."
This is where I disagree: if bicycle prices were reasonable for the quality of engineering encountered, I would - like you - discount the greed motive. With them being where they are - a "good" bike costing as much as a motorbike, and a top-of-the-line one costing as much as a small car, I really have an issue with dismissing greed as a cause of some of the issues.
High quality engineering such as in the defence industry, aerospace or F1 areas, is a costly business. Machine setup requires time consuming care by skilled operators, the post machining QC checks (not statistical probability but individual examination) is time consuming and costly, and reject rates can be high.
It's really easy to make a handful of very expensive things. A lot harder to make lots of relatively expensive things... I don't think people really appreciate this about mass manufacture.
Love the plumbing truck
Paid £175 for mine.
Flawless for the last twelve months.
I stick 1800w through bracket at some point though sprint. Never been a problem with this bracket.
@Red Lobster Skull pity I can't send you a screenshot from my garmin you prick.
Silver medalist individual pursuit.
4th kilo.
5th points race.
East Midlands sprnt pursuit road race champion . Gent 6 rider. Expert 250 mx rider. Pro jet ski racer. Midlands bodybuilder. Do one you non achiever.
@FITNESSOVER45 just a sprint peak. What's the laughing memes for? You've no idea who i am. Obviously what's impossible for you isn't for me. You're obviously questioning whilst not knowing who I am.
@@madplanet3351 Is it Ronnie Pickering?
Nice to see you've backed up Hambini's work! 👍
6:45 Just curious....what sort of machining process would produce 20x more) on the other??
First, start off with a 3 jaw chuck with worn-out jaws that taper out. Imagine sticking a straight rod through the center of a cone. The stock material will naturally teeter-totter about the line contact points. This will be your easiest bet to intentionally cause runout.
Next, stick out the part as far as you can possibly stick out. The further away from the clamping point the more leverage the cutting forces has to deflect the stock material. This will greatly aid in causing more runout.
Rough and finish the inside dimensions. Then rough out all the OD features with a nice high-feed positive lead angle turning insert for that aggressive radial cutting force. Don't bother going back with a finishing tool. We're shooting for incredible amounts of runout.
For additional runout, we can install an expanding mandrel or arbor fixture we used from a previous job but don't bother at all about how it goes back into the spindle. Thus naturally we can assume there will runout on the fixture. Now every part that now goes on said fixture will have at least this amount of runout 'imprinted' on to it.
In summary. There's a lot of reasons why one side is nice and the other is out. What exactly took place isn't something we can determine without looking at how Hambini's fixturing and machining parameters. I'm don't know how thin the aluminum piece is but I don't think it's farfetched to think something happened during the press of the bearings as well.
I am missing the part about how these tolerances won't matter in a potato frame. Since this is a single unit, and the bearings are aligned with each other in reference to the surfaces in the shell and not the frame (as is the case in a lot of press fit bikes) the tight tolerances of this unit should have significant impact in sureness of bearing efficiency/longevity...right? This product is developed in reaction to poor alignment of bearings which is common in frames, this should align the bearings correctly, or am I missing something?
You are correct. The idea of this bottom bracket is that it help persuade the frame during installation such that your final bearing alignment will be decent.
Hambini is precision down to the micron which equals perfection
No it disny! No such thing as precision, thats just a subjective term. Engineering 101 here as you get down to a certain level of tolerance you just look closer to see the imperfections and notice 2 things can never be made the exact same.. "trust me i know what im doing !" LoL 🤣 (only i will get that joke lol)
Great review. I have a T47 from Hambini. It is great...gettitng a PF30 too....great products and this was a great review.
If Hambinis BB isn’t the shiz, would those of other manufacturers be specks on the anus of humanity by comparison?
Would need a log scale
Absolutely. Still waiting for bronze bushings to be the latest and greatest setup. The consumer is gullible. Hambini cuts through marketing hype!
The Science of Hambini.
Are you measuring the runout on the V block or the roundness?
I think this BB has already been instaled on the China Cycling bike.
Have you done the follow up to crank length yet ?
No. I want to do inverse kinematics and I haven't done the math yet. Its a big project.
@@PeakTorque looking forward to it. Found it interesting on the one you’ve done already about how the leg speed in relation to what crank length you have.
Personally I think there’s a bit more to crank length, rather than people just saying you put the same watts out etc. Leg speed is important and it looks like it gives you a slight advantage.
Look forward to it
I tested 170,175,180 and 185mm. For me 180 and 185 feel better than 175mm. Even after 6 months on 175mm, the 180mm felt better. I don't think there's much a different in maximum power. My average cadans was on all lengths the same. Every person is different, so it will be difficult to conclude something that can be used by others.
Hello hambini fans!
Not loud enough. I think you meant
HELLO HAMBINI FANS
@@hutchmusician ... and welcome
Nice job 😊. Oil refinery? Hambini cc
Before he started measuring I was sure he had found a faulty part and would start calling Hambini a C-U-Next-Tuesday.
A sample of one- what about batch consistency?
Ever done this with the equivalent Shimano BB? Would be interesting to see the difference. Great video thanks
You can't compare concentricity of a one piece BB to a two-piece cup design. The two piece relies on the frames BB shell being very good. In my experience (with Giant tcrs), its very good and a two-piece design works fine.
@@PeakTorque I've had 2 giant frames all with these cheap plastic BBs from SRAM and never had any issues.
@@drunken_moose same. I've used plastic stock gxp and stock Shimano in my tcrs. One of them is still original since 2017. Never had problems
You could clamp the free end into a sled to reduce the runout.
Belinda must be proud.
Run out measuring ????
Love dry English wit X Engineer humour ...best combo in the game
But, are there any carbon frames to match this level of engineering?
Or will it end up rattling in the BB shell like a can of aerosol paint?
Can it not be bonded in ?
1) No 2) for some people it will help remove one possible reason for problems with the fit. - so may be worth it.
Thanks PT seems like I need to add you H & Luescher to my list of friends as its all I can do to fit a BB90 to my Trek. Imagine spending £10k on a bike and then finding any of you or the others videos. Might have to just go back to walking as Running you find you need a particular designed shoe or you need orthotics etc etc.
Need to mount this BB on a spindle, support the spindle ends on V-blocks then check runout on outer diameters.
Small handmade parts have got to be better than mass production CNC stuff. Good to see that hambinis done it the way it should be done. Question is we should all be doing this instead of buy stuff.
my body is ready.
Make sure to use the proper lubricant and that everything is squiky clean or shit may happen.
Thank you.
Does your hollow tech BB last forever?
Is that shop actually yours? If so, I’m actually impressed it really looks like a professional measurement laboratory from a multimillion dollar manufacturing plant, I worked in one of those, forget about letting someone using them for a quick video.
For an endless supply of bottom brackets just paper mache a loo role and then use a black wax crayon to waterproof it. Thank me later
Instructions unclear, I'm now out of toilet paper
This is the real reason people were mass buying toilet paper
careful or cannondale will sue you for patent infringement
@@gaveltron 😂👍
Hambini BB is the one I would buy. Exelent engineering! Nothing comes close.
Are those matched V blocks!?
They are indeed
@@PeakTorque I figured. I just had to be that guy. That's what you gotta do when you're measuring the gnats ass of things
I have some questions. What is the total runnout of the inner surface of the two bearings as installed? And, I put at least 20000 miles on the standard threaded bb on my 1982 Trek with absolutely no trouble. I took it apart and greased it once a year (possibly less often then that). Why did the tech get so crazy? I understand carbon bikes have different needs but this is insane.
2000 watts
This is a year late, but here goes.
Threaded interfaces posed a particular challenge to carbon fiber structures--basically you have to embed a metallic structure in the carbon structure to thread. The cycling industry convinced the consumers that pressed bearings are unequivocally better than threaded bearing cups for a few minutes. In ideal circumstances, a pressed in bearing can be as structurally sound, and slightly more energy and mass efficient than the threaded case.
The threaded interfaces have very high fault tolerance in comparison. The bearing press fit is also easier control because it is achieved at the cup rather than at the entire frame. In short, the threaded interface follows AK-47 thinking: dump a handful of sand in it, throw it off the back of a truck, insult it's mother, and it probably will still work. Press fits require ideal conditions that the profit margins of the cycling industry rarely allow.
Who hambini guys smart asf thanks for bringing him to my attention