As someone without DID but other types of trauma I think. I'm sobbing right now at this part. I guess it's a sign of a good character and show/youtube show if they can explain it to this point for multiple people.
There are certain fields and genres that the awards industry openly hates, and two of the largest are, sadly, horror and superheros. As time goes on, more and more people are seeing how much of a pretentious echo chamber completely divorced from "the public" that cinematic awards circuits usually tend to be.
My cousin has DID. I've met several of her alters (she asked me to use that word) in her System. I especially enjoy spending time with the littles. When my cousin and her System watched Moonknight (each one watched it separately I watched with each of them, I love watching the differenting reactions), each one told me they never felt more understood
@@dodonixx953 They all had a blast and I enjoyed the show and I made sure to space it out so I wasn't just rewatching the same episode over and over on repeat. She only has 5 alters not including herself
Hi, System here I have to say the fact their letting their littles come out and *BE* little around you should tell you how much they trust you, littles are usually well guarded not to mention rewatching this show with each alter treating them as different people and watching how they react is so beautiful. We need more people like you in this life
Hearing Steven tell Marc “You were just a child. It wasn’t your fault.” really hit hard and I think it was an important line for anyone dealing with childhood trauma. Especially for those who may never have heard those words out loud or had been triggered by what was shown earlier in the episode.
Yeah, to be honest there line kinda reminded me of that one scene from Good Will Hunting, where Robin Williams character finally breaks through to Will.
"You were just a child. It wasn't your fault." was such a powerful line. It is important to note though, even when someone knows it wasn't their fault, that doesn't mean that they won't feel incredible guilt because they were involved. Survivors guilt is a very real thing. Marc needed to be told it wasn't his fault, be he also needed to be told that his feelings of guilt are valid.
My favourite part of the DID representation is that Marc specifically acknowledges that them being able to talk like that is explicitly unusual and implies that it’s a recent development.
Agreed. It seems always a bit odd to me when they talk, as it simply does not work like that in any way I would know, no matter how great that would be, or lets all be honest, awful that would be. I cannot tell you the amounts of time that I was happy the rest could not talk to me directly at all. Though I can by now quite accurately tell what they would say, as makes sense when you live your life with someone, you know their ways.
I take it you are part of a DID system. If you don't mind me asking, how aware of each other are different identities in a system? If they can't talk to each other, how do they get to know each other? I'm assuming it varies case by case
That’s what I liked to. The merging between truth and fantasy DID. Alters are real, but his alters are even more real then usual. yet acts similar to how alters should interact with both the host and the real world
I like to think it's only a visual thing for the major audience to understand what is going on (also I think it's a power that the moon god guy gave them). Whenever I see them talking to one another like that I imagine they're actual conversation is taking place in the mind/headspace (and again the only reason they can see each other is because of whatever the bird did). SPOILERS: Another reason why I believe so is because of the later episodes where they eventually find out about each other's memories. They never knew each other existed until the bird man came around.
@@breezy3392 I'm not a system myself but I've been watching a channel called DissociaDID for a couple of days now. They are a DID system that makes content on TH-cam and they have a video talking about this thing called the "buddy system". Basically, one alter may want to send a message to a specific other alter but they are too far away, but there may be another alter closer to them so they talk to that alter who talks to another alter to get the message to the person they wanted to talk to originally. That receiving alter can then send a message back through the same channel or a different one, depending on the system. It apparently works like a game of telephone. They explain it better on their channel, you should definitely check them out if you are interested in learning more.
The mirror thing. The closest I've come to having a mirror situation as someone with DID was when I was looking in the mirror putting on my makeup getting ready to go to a party I didn't want to go to, and suddenly didn't recognize my face. I was having a depersonalization event and didn't really realize it until after it happened. My younger alter was coming into consciousness with me (co-con) and questioning "why does my face looks like that?" So, I heard her voice, but answered her with my own logic without fully understanding what was going on saying to myself -- "I guess I'm getting older. I guess this is what being 40 does to your face." And then the worst WORST bit of confusion I've ever felt came over me and I heard her again say something like "I'm 26. I'm not 40" Then derealization set in and I had no idea how old I was. I struggled to remember even turning 40 and had to pull myself away from the mirror entirely never probably finishing putting on my makeup, thinking holy shit I'm having a midlife crisis. haha The rest of the day was blank to me but I hear she drank and had a lot of fun. I don't tend to look in mirrors anymore because for some reason it's a trigger for the young one and she has body image issues. So yeah....the mirror thing . . .
I really want to take it upon myself to learn and understand about DID for a character I'm writing. My character actually doesn't have DID but is actually a woman who's possessed by an angel and they share equal control of the " vessel " although normally the human is the one steering simply because she's significantly more extroverted lol. BUT, I want to understand DID because if my character is ever caught switching by someone who doesn't know what they are, I want my character to lie and say they have DID but not write it like a joke but actually use the correct terminology. I'd like to use it as an opportunity to give a little education and also potentially show what kind of crap and ignorance systems face. Fun fact, the angel character speaks with a British accent but she actually chooses to speak with an accent just so it's easier for people to know who's speaking. Their eyes would change colours depending who's talking and there's different body language as well. I'm writing these characters for a show I'm trying to write a pilot script for so I'm overthinking about every little detail about them and tips to give the actress who'd be playing them. Different accents, different speech patterns, different body language, different behaviors etc. Typically, both characters are completely aware of everything going on with the body, I like to think of them like conjoined twins or like two people have their limbs tied together and they move as one. But, the only time the human (the actual owner of the body) is unaware of what the angel is doing when the angel is I control is when the human is asleep. Angels don't sleep. Typically the angel just uses the night as time to do paperwork and research etc (they are detectives ). I'd love to hear from systems about their thoughts and ideas and input. I'd love to hear if you have funny DID related stories, how people typically react to seeing a switch or learning about your system and what kind of negative responses you get (to give awareness).
Delainey, that is literally my worst nightmare ever. Hallucinating is one of my worst fears, and I had a mini version of it. scared the crap out of me. I hope that that moment in your life will not haunt you for the rest of your life.
@@Saitoshiba no, do not watch videos with DissociaDID. while they may get information right, they do not have DID. please research more about them ad what they've done.
@@shoe777 yeah. I used to watch and believe they had DID. After I made this comment, I did some research about it and realized that they were spreading misinformation and actually didn't have DID.
Honestly yeah.... The sudden feeling of that's not what I look like .... Or dressing totally different and talking in different ways and writing in different fonts... The moment you actually realise that shit what is happening
What I loved the most about this show, is how they validate every single alter. The body died. And BOTH Mark and Stephen had a spirit and a chance at an afterlife. Stephen wasn't made up. Stephen is as real as Mark in every possible way. I'm not a system, but I love that messaging so much
The plottwist was amazing. The whole time you think, that Stephen is the "original" and Mark is there for protect him, because Mark does all this crazy fightning stuff. So it was really suprising to see, that Stephen emerged to protect Mark. And he does that with his kidness, hope and positivity. And that is just a super beautiful message. Because you not just helping people on the physical side, you also can help and save people on a emotional side
There are many ways one can protect another. Having a "childlike" alter is not that uncomment and actualy makes a lot of sense. It also is great at challenging the notion of what is real. People are oh so eaesely inclined to think of an alter as nothing but an act or hallucination, but it is a person often with very little destinction to the host. People that want to rid another of there alters just do not get how absurd and hurtful that can be to a system!
I wish I didn't know the comic version before the show so the twist could've gotten me, but I'm more of a DC person so when the Marvel movies add new characters that I don't know I like to look them up and maybe read some of the stories
I don't have D.I.D. but I relate HARD to Marc. My sister died and my mom blamed me. I ended up with PTSD instead. I think this is also good representation for mental health in general because while other heros clearly have mental health concerns...this show centers it. This is a superhero who openly has a mental health condition.
Yeah, the last time we genuinely had a hero suffering with mental illness was probably Iron Man after the battle of New York (Iron Man 3). But then again he is Tony Stark, so he gets to play off a lot of it through jokes.
Yeah, you rarely see heroes with mental issues. I love it when you see them affected by traumatic events they were put through, whether it be saving NY or getting beaten by a parent. I have boatloads of trauma from issues relating to my father and school. And it's really nice to see someone on screen that struggles with similar things.
Just sth I want to point out: Jonathan, I love that you say "not to my knowledge". Your professionalism and credibility skyrocket everytime you admit that you a) don't know sth, b) have made a mistake or c) are aware that some things might not be discovered yet/could be different in the future. Props to you for using your rolemodel-status to point out that even experts aren't perfect.
Well also in psychology, there are people that do specialize in issues like DID and it's always good to keep in mind that just because you're an expert in one field (in Jono's case family and relationship therapy) doesn't mean you're an expert in all. Still, it's an amazing thing that Jono is so humble about not knowing everything.
He's a family and marriage counselor so that's his specialty. I'm a school based counselor, so that's MY speciality. Have I crossed paths with people with various disorders and walks of life and studied a variety of psychology to get my degrees? Of course! Am I master in all things mental health? Nope! I have knowledge in many areas of psychology but the "muscle" I use most frequently is my school based counselor muscle, so that muscle is the strongest. Even then, I still get cases that are very difficult to navigate and no person is the same, so even if I've dealt with 50 kids with anxiety, for example, for each kid the triggers and the manifestation of anxiety is completely different. It always makes me laugh when I see "experts" in a field claim to know everything. No one knows everything. Jono represents how I wish more "mainstream" "experts" presented themselves.
Oscar's body double was his actual brother, Mike, which I think allowed for a much deeper connection to the emotional relationship between Marc and Steven. In a way, Marc and Steven are brothers inside the same body, so who better to play opposite you than your own brother. Also, as an Egyptology nerd, the significance of the Duat manifesting as a psychiatric hospital is often overlooked. The appearance of the Duat changes to fit the soul passing through, but it's usually out of comfort, as a way to ease the soul into their afterlife after their heart is weighed. Marc has always had issues with his DID and his guilt and self-deprecation over the death of his brother and the life he's led ever since didn't allow the Duat to offer comfort, it offered the same judgement Marc's felt his entire life. The Duat didn't appear as a psychiatric hospital because Marc perceived it as one, it appeared as a psychiatric hospital because Marc truly believes he deserved to be locked away in one. He never thought he deserved the peace and rest he so desperately wanted, so when he got to Aaru (The Field of Reeds) without Steven, he realized he was missing a piece of himself. He finally recognized Steven as a part of him, a part of his soul, and went back to be with him, just like how Steven had always been with him, too.
That's actually adorable to know about his brother. That was either a very wholesome experience or an opportunity for brothers to mess with each other lol
As an Egyptology nerd myself I remember the cut to the psychiatric hospital and immediately thought "is this the boat?! Did the boat take the form of a hospital?!" then the creaking and rocking happened and I geeked out further. Good times...
aw i didn’t know that. reminds me of how i want to be an actor and my little brother wants to be a stunt double (because he heard they do all the fun stuff)
We are a DID system. This series made us cry multiple times because it felt like seeing ourselves on a screen for the first time. We weren't portrayed as a monster or crazy, we were the hero.
I'm glad you guys brought up Jake Lockley as the third personality, because he does serve a similar purpose for Mark, but in a different way. Jake acts a shield for Mark's guilt over the terrible things he's done, where as Steven is a shield for the terrible things being done to *Mark.* Both Jake and Steven are there to keep Mark from feeling the full force of his suffering.
Protectors / Persecutor alters are vilified so often, seeing their fairly positive thoughts on Jake was refreshing. He's actually my favorite from the more recent comic runs.
Marc. Marc's name is spelled with a "C" always has been since his first appearance in "Werewolf By Night" number 36. I noticed that you bolded it -- was that your way of correcting the spelling? If so.... that's not accurate. Marc Spector. Not Mark Spector. Sorry, dude.
The backstory episode was really hard for me. Watching someone's mother blame them for something that's not their fault, and that caused a mental disorder that they battle with into adulthood was waaaay too close to home.
As someone with D.I.D. I cannot tell you how therapeutic it was to see this portrayed as a disorder that stems from childhood trauma and not as an evil thing where every system has a murderer. We similarly lived with an abusive mother and a father who stood by in that abuse, and it was amazing to see a system portrayed this well. Thanks for the amazing review
DID system here: personally, we think that the portrayal of DID in Moon Knight was incredibly respectful. It sounds like everyone working on the show tried their hardest to avoid the stigma and stereotypes around the disorder, and we're so glad that the main character, who has DID, is the hero, not the monster.
I have been wanting to have one of my original characters have DID in a system where the alter does criminal acts to protect the core. Neither of them are evil, but just acting out of self defense for each other. I don't want to accidentally misuse DID so can you give me some pointers and things to avoid? I want to educate myself and my readers about it in a realistic way, even though it's for a comic series.
@@harmlesshorrors7229 Hi there. DID system here. Research has shown that DID systems and their alters rarely do criminal acts (and are way more often the victim). However, in my personal opinion, I am also a novelist myself and understand how using DID is such an interesting writing concept. I would suggest that you really drive home the point that the criminal acts are to protect the system. And have the alter who is doing the criminal acts be someone who is well-aware of the wrongness. Don't let them be one-dimensional and uncaring of how their actions affect others.
@@AWren-mh2zx That's the plan, Wren. I'm not wanting to villainize DID, especially since my (sort of) girlfriend is friends with a few systems. I was talking with her about it earlier today.
@@harmlesshorrors7229 The situation itself, having to commit a (some) crime(s), can be traumatic as well, specially if it involves violence, so there's that also? (Not a system, so I'm talking without ANY solid knowledge, but for me it seems relevant)
The fact that when we are getting the backstory and Steven is wearing the black because he is in the dark and Mark is wearing the white because he is the vulnerable one, the innocent or victim, in that moment. So much though put behind it. The acting is phenomenal. The amount times I've cried during this show. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing.
Important to note: Jake emerged earlier than thought. As a child, Marc transitioned to Steven as a relief from his abusive mother. But Steven never remembered any actual beatings. This is initially why Jake emerged, to absorb brute force. Later, we see who we think is Marc perform killings in a truck. I challenge that this too was actually Jake. And while we see Jake's sarcophagus in the mental ward seemingly sealed, Jake is actually the person with the injured nose. The accent and attitude change, although we are lead to believe it is Marc. Jake emerged to give and take brute force and to do the work too dirty for the others. Jake actually played a much bigger role in the show.
@@chickadeestevenson5440 Neither Steve nor Marc know about Jake's existence, that's what Jake in the sarcophagus means. I don't necessarily think it's because of Khonshu, though; he does know and keeps it as a secret because it's convenient for him, but I believe it'd be hard for Khonshu to constantly keep Jake away from the rest. As Jake doesn't seek out fronting, unless it's actually needed, Steve and Marc had no opportunity to meet him. Steven didn't know about Marc as well and that doesn't mean Marc was hidden from him by Khonshu. The whole point of DID (splitting into alters) is to keep bad memories and situations away from the host, so they can live a happy, normal life; in most cases, the host doesn't know they have DID in the first place, so it's natural they later not know about every other alter there is in the system.
IMO Jake stays sealed away because his memories are too painful for Marc and Steven to come to terms with. Marc is aware of him but consciously/subconsciously not talking about him or really accepting his presence. It doesn't mean that Jake doesn't come out when he's needed but that when Marc and Steven walked right past him, they chose not to invite him to join the conversation.
@@petiteflower5259 and they know someone else is there from episode 3 when neither of them killed all those people and they both blacked out, as well as episode 6 when they both blacked out again
Agree, Jake was there from the beginning. Who else asked that woman out to dinner in the first episode 😉. I doubt it would have been Marc. I'm looking forward to seeing how they integrate Jake into season 2...hopefully not making him a villain.
“You were just a child, it wasn’t your fault” is something one of my alters has said to me and watching that scene absolutely broke me into a sobbing mess. I felt so happy to see this portrayed and it made me feel like the things that happen in my head were normal. Thank you both for being so respectful and wonderful, my entire system thanks you
I am so happy you felt represented by the show. It must be very difficult. I know I have depression and it is tough. I can’t imagine how much more difficult it is for you. I’m glad you seem to be doing well. I hope you have a good support system
I really want to take it upon myself to learn and understand about DID for a character I'm writing. My character actually doesn't have DID but is actually a woman who's possessed by an angel and they share equal control of the " vessel " although normally the human is the one steering simply because she's significantly more extroverted lol. BUT, I want to understand DID because if my character is ever caught switching by someone who doesn't know what they are, I want my character to lie and say they have DID but not write it like a joke but actually use the correct terminology. I'd like to use it as an opportunity to give a little education and also potentially show what kind of crap and ignorance systems face. Fun fact, the angel character speaks with a British accent but she actually chooses to speak with an accent just so it's easier for people to know who's speaking. Their eyes would change colours depending who's talking and there's different body language as well. I'm writing these characters for a show I'm trying to write a pilot script for so I'm overthinking about every little detail about them and tips to give the actress who'd be playing them. Different accents, different speech patterns, different body language, different behaviors etc. Typically, both characters are completely aware of everything going on with the body, I like to think of them like conjoined twins or like two people have their limbs tied together and they move as one. But, the only time the human (the actual owner of the body) is unaware of what the angel is doing when the angel is I control is when the human is asleep. Angels don't sleep. Typically the angel just uses the night as time to do paperwork and research etc (they are detectives ). I'd love to hear from systems about their thoughts and ideas and input. I'd love to hear if you have funny DID related stories, how people typically react to seeing a switch or learning about your system and what kind of negative responses you get (to give awareness).
As a teen we always thought we were a freak and broken, but the first ever comic we got to personally own was Moon knight because our therapist gave it to us in hope that we would be more comfortable in our body, our new world. And it worked so well. When I heard moonknight was getting a tv series I was more than thrilled that, not only is a great story being told, but that we were being heard as real people and not monsters.
Indeed. After all the bilge that has come out of Hollywood when it comes to any and all scientific matters in film, it is quite refreshing to see those Americans finally got something right and decent. We also had a bit of a personal connection to this series in that as a child, we were quite interested in Egyptian mythology. Hopefully in the not so distant future, we can be open about us being an us with more people in person, as a multiple and in terms of all other multiples out there.
I love how the alternate personality is the protagonist of the show rather than having it be the original personality, or host, which is how it's usually potrayed in film and TV.
Fun fact: There is no "core personality" in a DID system. There's the host(s) - the alter or alters that come out most often and handle most of the daily life. But there's no "original" alter
I know what you mean but there is no such thing as a core personality in DID. The alters don't get created due to splitting (pun intended), they just never integrate because of the immense trauma in early childhood, so that the amnesia walls can protect the person from something they wouldn't have survived otherwise.
@@catcolour444 Quite well put and honest Fun Fact. The closest thing there is might be a "closest to original Personality" one, which could be where most people go from thinking there is such a thing, but it is simply not how it works. For example, I am gonna number us 3 here for the sake of simplicity, number 1 might be the closest to the Kid we once were, yet that does not mean I or 3 are not that Kid. One could even argue we are more of it than he was going simply by development. Simple thing said is, You are 100% right here. Not one of us is the original, and we all are the original.
I believe the reason why they chose to frame Steven as the protagonist even though his memories are fiction, is because he is a much more grounded and relatable character than Marc. Marc is a mercenary, an expert combatant, and a murderer. Most people do not share those life experiences. Steven on the other hand is a bit of a bumbling klutz, he has a rocky relationship with his boss, he’s not smooth with the ladies, he loves is mum and is generally a huge nerd. That’s way more in line with most average people’s life experience. It’s actually brilliant writing to have you relate to and care about Steven, only to reveal that Steven and Marc are one and the same. If you take Steven out of the show, Marc becomes a significantly less engaging character, as a lot of one note bad asses in film have been in the past. Knowing that Steven is a core part of who Marc is allows us to care about Marc, even if he isn’t nearly as characterized within the show.
One thing I found fascinating is that Marc, the hardened badass mercenary, is very emotionally fragile while Steven, the soft-spoken and nebbish fellow is very stabilising; the latter was meant as a protector, which is highlighted by his being named for an Indiana Jones-inspired action-adventure hero, and while he’s very meek and maybe naive he’s deeply compassionate and really does look after Marc when he sees just how tormented and broken he can be.
I always thought that it was interesting that Steven is the one stepping up and wanting the truth and finding his power in being honest and straight forward while Marc wants to hide behind a wall he built himself that even his own wife can't see through
@@InvaderHog It's a fantastic contrast and also explains why we start with Steven as our viewpoint character/protagonist; at the end it evens out, when they finally come together. As for Jake Lockley, hopefully a future season abates the understandable concerns some have of him being the "evil" one.
I think it's really clear that Steven is the emotional protector of the system, whereas Marc/Jake are physical protectors - their roles are so clear but they're also allowed to exist as their own people.
It's as if he gives up his physicality so he can protect Marc emotionally. And then when they learn to love and communicate with each other with respect, Marc becomes stronger emotionally and Stephen becomes more tough physically. Yet they are still different people. It's really beautiful.
as a person who does not experience DID and has little knowledge on it, i want to say a huge thank you to those of you in the comments for sharing your stories. this show was hands down one of my favorite marvel series, and it helped me realize i had a lot of unconscious bias against systems due to movies like split, like assuming that alters fought for dominance to “steal” the body from the “original” and other nonsense. this video and your stories inspired me to open my mind up to the fact that i had no idea what i was truly believing, and to actually educate myself instead of relying on the few examples i’d been presented. i wish you all the best, and hope it gives some comfort that you’ve enlightened a lot of us
Same. While I have never seen Split I did watch stuff like Total Drama (season 4 and 5 had a DID character) and stuff that would make alters just evil or a joke. But Moon Knight has helped me understand DID much better.
I completely agree, I'm glad that cinema is taking the right steps to keep teaching us about topics the correct and thoughtful way. I've started to learn about many things just because it was brought up in media. I truly enjoy learning about new topics especially from people who experience some of the topics we discus.
Thank you for this, it's so good to see people taking us seriously, and hey if you ever have any questions about life with DID I am always willing to talk about it!
As someone with DID who's 7 years into being in therapy and taking meds, I can safely say that Moon Knight is literally the best media involving DID. And harmony is 100% the end goal. Finding common goals with my head mates for our life was the first step in truly healing. And since then? I've been doing so much better. Day by day, it gets better. It's truly amazing to finally see media that portrays DID in such a positive light.
I really want to take it upon myself to learn and understand about DID for a character I'm writing. My character actually doesn't have DID but is actually a woman who's possessed by an angel and they share equal control of the " vessel " although normally the human is the one steering simply because she's significantly more extroverted lol. BUT, I want to understand DID because if my character is ever caught switching by someone who doesn't know what they are, I want my character to lie and say they have DID but not write it like a joke but actually use the correct terminology. I'd like to use it as an opportunity to give a little education and also potentially show what kind of crap and ignorance systems face. Fun fact, the angel character speaks with a British accent but she actually chooses to speak with an accent just so it's easier for people to know who's speaking. Their eyes would change colours depending who's talking and there's different body language as well. I'm writing these characters for a show I'm trying to write a pilot script for so I'm overthinking about every little detail about them and tips to give the actress who'd be playing them. Different accents, different speech patterns, different body language, different behaviors etc. Typically, both characters are completely aware of everything going on with the body, I like to think of them like conjoined twins or like two people have their limbs tied together and they move as one. But, the only time the human (the actual owner of the body) is unaware of what the angel is doing when the angel is I control is when the human is asleep. Angels don't sleep. Typically the angel just uses the night as time to do paperwork and research etc (they are detectives ). I'd love to hear from systems about their thoughts and ideas and input. I'd love to hear if you have funny DID related stories, how people typically react to seeing a switch or learning about your system and what kind of negative responses you get (to give awareness).
I am so happy you all have found the best methods for healing & to find harmony!!! Bless you. You’re incredibly strong. Sending love & light your way ❤❤❤
I always love that Moon Knight shows that Steven and Marc love each other, and they don't shy away from it either. I'm so used to DID being seen as something where everyone in the system hates each other and wants nothing but to be rid of each other. Moon Knight shows the other side where there is so much care for the other people in your system and it is so real. I would do anything for my system and we love each other as deep as family, and I'm really glad moon knight was able to portray that love and care you can feel for the people around you.
That love extends from my husband too. There's about 36-40 of us and he cares about everyone deeply even if its in different ways such as treating the kiddos (child alters) as his biological kids
Yes I feel this way so much! This show helped us to accept each other, even the alters that seem the most difficult to accept. I also love how accepting and caring Layla is of both Marc and Steven. I wish there were more people in our life like her.
We're a bit scared to write this since we don't have DID, we're not traumagenic and we don't experience lost time (and for some reason some people are viciously hostile to people like us, claiming we're faking or roleplaying. as if they have any idea of what goes on in our head). But maybe we can risk writing this, risk sharing how this movie touched us. The love was palpable. You know the scene with the field? I don't know why but it hit me so hard. It conveyed exactly what I need in an afterlife. Peace... an end to pointless suffering. If I were there I would want to stay there. I would like to stay there so much. Just leave this crap of a world behind. Yet, like Marc, I could not be happy there alone. I could not be happy there knowing that the most important person in my life is suffering or just missing. You know the last scene with Marc and Steven? The one where Marc wakes up and asks Steven if he's there? And Steven just makes some sleepy noises? That was another scene that touched us personally because that's us every morning. :)
The scene that hit me the most is when Marc screamed "Shut up, SHUT UP!!" while destroying the mirror. Oscar Isaac's portrayal of the frustration of being controlled by some entity in your own brain was so accurate! I have severe OCD and I sometimes scream into a pillow or injure myself for my mind to just shut up. I have friends with DID who cried because they were so happy to see it represented like that. Some neurotypical people said he overacted, but in my mind he was absolutely spot on!
In case no one's mentioned it, HUGE props also have to go to Oscar's brother Mike - he worked as Oscar's body double, especially in the back half of the season, and he trained just as hard, if not harder, to make those scenes in the hospital and the barge work.
When I first saw Oscar Isaac in Ex Machina, I thought, "Wow, this guy is a really talented and captivating actor. I hope he gets a lot more big roles." Apparently the rest of the world felt the same way.
It's interesting that most people associate his big break with Ex Machina. These other roles came out right around the same time but he was already well on his way after some pretty incredible performances in 'A Most Violent Year' and more importantly 'Inside LLewyn Davis' which was directed by the Coen Brothers. If you haven't seen that I'd seriously recommend checking it out.
I was SO ready to be disappointed in this because I thought "oh they made the violent one the alter AGAIN" but then we find out nope, Steven - sweet kind goofy Steven - was there to protect Marc and it just turned the whole thing around and made me love it. Even aggressive, destructive alters aren't "evil" and I LOVE that this series has started changing that viewpoint
I love symbolism of the scene where Mark throws his Kippot on the group & then embraces it. Jewish heritage traditionally comes through the mother. So him throwing it on the ground & then picking it back up shows the complicated feelings he has for his mother. As someone with a similar background, that scene rlly hit me
As a Jewish I went "oh shit" when he did it, i don't wanna say it's a sin but you not supposed to do it, and if a kippa fall to the ground you have to pick it up immediately and kiss it. So see him treat it so roughly did something to me.
Man, I never put two and two together even with having a Jewish background. I'm not a practicing Jew (I'm religiously a Christian), but I grew up celebrating some Jewish traditions and holidays because of my mom. There's so much truth in that confliction though. My mom, who came out of a Jewish family, had an abusive father and I see it in how she talks about him. She doesn't talk about him with bitterness, it's more out of pity. She acknowledges the horrible shit that he did, but even when she acknowledges the abuse, she still holds on to the good memories with him. I don't consider that man my "grandfather". The only good thing about him is that, without him, my mom and aunt wouldn't be here... But damn, seeing my mom talk about him like that is heart wrenching.
@@godzelda123oh gosh ,good question because...I don't know how I feel about it. On one hand I did like the fact that Marc is a Jewish super hero with a rabbi dad who run from the nazi hands, it what made me be interested in the first place, before the show even started, there's some comics when Marc talked about his beliefs in our God and face neo nazis and it hit hard, and I do kind of wish we could've had it. On the other hand, there is Jewish people who live like Marc on the show (myself including) being a Jewish is only some part of us and it's surface only in weddings/ death (like the Shiva we see on the show)/ really big holidays etc. It's not on your daily life. and if you look at Steven's apartment you can see that Marc have stuff to celebrate the Shabbat, including mezuzah (something we put on the side of every door), so it's there, not as much in the comics, but it's there. So I'm not mad about it, but I'm not thrilled either, I do hope that if we get s2 we get more of it.
Thank youuuuuuu!!! After being greatly triggered by episode 5 and not knowing why, I brought it to my therapist and we discussed it. She told me that she had suspicions of me having DID for about two years and I decided to get tested, and.... yes I do have DID. This show literally has saved my life and brought me so much clarity on my life and my alters. Moon Knight literally got me to realize I have DID! It's crazy! Thank you Cinema Therapy for covering this and thank you Moon Knight for saving me!
I was watching a video by DisassociaDID and they talked about how alters/identities can develop from fictional characters, but they become their own person the moment they develop because now they are experiencing things that the character didn't experience and I think Steven grant is an example of that.
Watch anybody but dissociaDID. They are a terrible person, give misinformation, has allegations of faking via an illuminati and sra book, their fiance was a pedophile, Nadia was a sexualized version of native American women, there so much more. But there are better alternative systems on TH-cam
I love how the alter is, as you said, portrayed as a real person just like the original personality. There's nothing creepy about either Steven or Marc. They're both adorably loving people in their own right.
There IS something creepy about the third guy, but he showed up to help Marc with the murder aspects of being a Mercenary, so I expect him to be creepy. I also don't know if Marc knows about him.
@@CassyBug i was going to say the exact same thing! By the time Jake Lockley rolls around, it's not "oh no, DID, so scary, so creepy", it's "Oh no, _Jake_ is scary". Not because he's an alter, but because he's a _stone cold mercenary._ At least that was my impression, as an audience member who doesn't experience DID.
@@CassyBug we also don’t know much about him tho. Remember that we though Marc was bad cuz we saw it from Steven’s limited POV. It’s the same for Jake. Even if he shows up to help up w/ the murder aspects, he only comes out when Marc/Steven are in extreme danger. It’s likely the guy is so violent since he frequently wakes up to find himself in high stress situations where they’re about to die.
I had a classmate in psychology university who has DID. The way he described it amazed me. I never thought he was scary or crazy and needed a treatment. He never talked with himself unless I was okay with it. Most of the time his personalities just communicated in thoughts. Basically he described it as "approaching the same issue or problem from multiple points of view". It was his way of thinking. Each of his personality had a different way to view life and it made him feel complete and ready to tackle any issue or scenario.
But isn't that basically what _everyone_ does? Everyone has different facets to their personality. Everyone may feel mellow at one time or a cynical bastard in other circumstances. And a lot of people talk to themselves without having D.I.D.
@@TF2CrunchyFrog Thats kinda what DID is though. When that need to have facets of a personality are made into separate entities within the body instead of just aspects of a single person. A young child that's mind and personality are still growing gets thrown into such extreme trauma that they need to have these facets to their personality be separate from each other in order to handle and escape the trauma.
@@TF2CrunchyFrog It's a question of degrees and the level of dissociation going on. It's a tough condition to diagnose and describe, but it's definitely different than the usual "everyone talks to themselves sometimes" type of thing.
As someone with DID, I have to say I was… so worried about watching moon knight at first, cuz I’m so used to being the villain in the media, so used to being the evil one. But this show was so accurate, I can say I freaked out when they went into the bodies head, I’m pretty sure I screamed “THEY HAVE A HEADSPACE” because they literally never depict things like that, and it’s not their imagination. I’m so glad this was created so well by the team.
My father is a psychiatrist, I've hung out in his office and taken tours of his inpatient unit and he's shown me all the little things they do in the design to prevent people from being able to hurt themselves or others. I immeditely knew the Dr was not real when I saw that office, especially that pointy glass pyramid on his desk lol
The office is also a bit too white. Too sharp, like a place made to impress/intimidate people. There is absolutely nothing comforting about the office. That alone told you that this supposed doctor is a hack lol.
"it wasn't your fault, you were just a child" - *this line broke me* As someone who experienced childhood trauma, this is one of the most powerful things someone can say to you. His performance in that scene is so amazing. I think this is the best superhero series out there 🔥hot take🔥 Oscar Isaac was so amazing in this show. I can't wait for season 2. I'm so thrilled you guys made an exception to review this series!!!
Same. This line hit so close to home. A lot of my trauma stems from being made to feel like it was my fault and I deserved it. This show is my favourite series period. I can't even describe how much I love it. It has helped me come to terms with my own trauma and DID.
No because really it hit home SOOO hard and this entire episode managed to give me the worst panic attack of my life but it was so worth it and I needed to hear and see it they really did such an amazing job on this
I'm extremely close to a DID system. We lived together for a while and I remember the first time when one personality was emotionally overwhelmed (the "original") and so another emerged. It was my first time witnessing an emergence vs coming home to a different personality from whom was present that morning. The feeling of energetic change was profound and the physical transformation was exactly what Moon Light showed with adult Marce switching to Steven outside of the funeral. As an outsider of DID, I appreciated this series and the compassion they give.
As a system I can say that it's not only more common to stay in one state/person/mode for days, but also that you can stay in that one for years or be in that one 90% of the time for decades. Also, finding out Stephan was the protector was a huge and beautiful twist. I FELT this scene so hard, because my own experience was a LOT like Stephan's. I thought I remembered everything and was the "real" or "main" one, but I'm the host who was born to handle life as if everything was fine and normal. And our gatekeeper had to take me aside when I was digging too much into trauma memories (after learning we were a system and I didn't have all the memories after all) to make it clear I wasn't supposed to remember everything, because that wasn't my job and the trauma would make me incapable of doing my job right. Making the audience attached to Stephan as the "real" one and then turning this around also did SO MUCH to help my husband (a singlet) understand what it's like and how we're all "real" or equally valid. I hope to have the same moment with a couple friends next, because they still treat me as somehow more real or original than any of the others. THANK YOU for thanking them, YES! It means so much to have an movie that helps to educate and accurately represent! At long last we have something we can point people to who don't understand and don't wanna ready psychology studies or theories to get some understanding.
How do you cope with not being allowed to know everything about your history? I have a memory that I can't really think about without disassociating though I'm not a system so even if I didn't know the exact details until I "lived through it" again with my therapist, I've always known the gist of it and what event the memory is from(it's a suicide attempt fyi). Just like your system's gatekeeper, part of my brain thinks it's better for the rest of me to not remember but I'd die of curiosity if I wasn't able to know what it was about. Is it easier to trust that you're better off not knowing because you trust the judgement of the gatekeeper?
@@char1211 i am going through something similar i had an abusive childhood and 3-4 yrs of my memories are missing i know that because i literally remember every single detail before it and at first i was frustrated about it and then eventually i was like i don't know and i could not do anything about it so i just distract myself from these thoughts because i am already traumatised and if my brain decides that it is not good for me to know so i should just leave it be i just don't wanna get anymore trauma
What does "our gatekeeper had to take me aside" look like? The therapists said two personalities talking to each other in a "system" is more movie language, and not what it really looks like, but you're making it sound like that's what happened. Did you hear someone? See someone?
@@manupaints1869 I'm sorry you had to go through that! But yeah, I think I get it. When I wrote my comment, I didn't really keep in mind that exploring traumatic memories feels different depending on the situation. For me, most of my trauma isn't severe* enough to make remembering the idea of it painful so recognizing that it happened usually just feels rewarding. Like, [x] happened so now I don't feel silly that [y] makes me anxious. Some memories are so shitty it feels like any reward is negated I suppose. *Severity is not the same thing as importance people, all trauma is a big deal and everyone deserves help. Your cut will still need stitches even if someone else got stabbed.
@@char1211 no because i have heard about somethings about the incidents that i don't know and they are so horrible so terrible that after hearing about them i am grateful that i don't remember because if i did i would have took my life although i tried but if i remembered those incidents i would not be able to survive
I didn't think I knew anyone with DID until I started talking about how great this video was and how people with DID deserve better representation. Turns out a family member has been recently diagnosed with DID and was having a hard time figuring out how to tell me about it. I'm kinda floored by the coincidence. Thanks for helping us start the conversation!
@@viivoid thanks for the advice and support! Definitely will follow it. We are good friends on top of being family and we're going to start family therapy in the new year to help us navigate any challenges we might face in our relationship (they have their own therapist for the DID, this is in addition to that). I want to be as accepting and supportive as possible. I'm also trying to educate myself on it. Waiting for their therapist to send me a book list right now.
Omg I'd love to hear the book list if you ever get around to reading this and don't mind sharing ofc. As someone w severe childhood trauma, books about folks with mental illnesses and/or the relationships had with them is so enlightening and comforting. For anyone else interested I'm currently reading "Tastes Like War" by Grace M. Cho. Its is part autobiography, larger part memoir/investigation about Grace's mother who has schizophrenia. I'm only 2 chapters in atm and it's very interesting.
@@DemiYourGoddess That sounds like a fascinating book! Unfortunately we haven't had any biographies so far. My family member is currently reading "Healing the Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors" by Janina Fisher (recommended by their therapist). We are planning to both start "The Narcissism Recovery Journal" by Cynthia Eddings and work through it at the same time. I don't know if you will find these helpful since they were recommended to us based on our set of circumstances, but if you or anyone you know has experienced childhood trauma from caregivers who displaying narcissistic and sociopathic behavior, it is super helpful. Also, a quick shout of encouragement to the void since it's been 7 months since my first comment and a lot has happened - I was really scared of the diagnosis at first, but I soon realized that my family member is the same person(s) I have always known and that they will be able to live a full and amazing life, they just need some extra support. They found a great therapist and I'm really proud of them right now for a recent breakthrough that they just told me about. Good vibes to all DID systems out there, y'all rock and I think you're some of the coolest people I've ever met.
I don't have DID but my brain blocked out a lot of harmful memories for a long time until a therapist was able to help me re-open memories from that time in my life. I was an absolute mess for a while realizing all the stuff I'd forgotten and dealing with that pain, and around that same time this show came out. That scene where steven is looking through the house seeing the reality of his life while mark tries to stop him had me absolutely sobbing.
I also don't have DID, but my therapist and I have unlocked some hardcore trauma memories that I had blocked out, and it's been real rough. Sending you love ❤
My friend sent this video our way and as a system we both sat down to watch the whole series and finish this video and I am so so thankful that they portrayed DID in such a kind and compassionate way. As someone who was a system and got backlash from others who I thought were close to me when Split came out, this was such a refreshing show and video to watch. I thank you guys for mentioning that integration does not have to be the end goal. Especially if it is rushed or forced, in my case it was EXTREMELY traumatic. It resolved nothing as I am 99% we weren't ready. That trauma was never resolved, and of course everything got chaotic again and a new alter stepped in. Ironic enough, she and I were very much like Marc and Steven. I found her mildly annoying over small differences, but she has helped me through so much and I love her to pieces. I would not be where I am without her.
Saaaame. We have a rule in our system that no fusion is forced and must be voluntary between both headmates. Some of us want to fuse and some of us don't. A permanent fusion between two headmates for us is seen as a kind of platonic internal emotional intimacy for us almost like a platonic marriage. Sometimes we have temporary fusions that are brief like a harmonious co-front but it isn't as extreme as like permanently becoming one with another headmate.
As a system, this video... we appreciate this video a lot. Thank you for doing this! First off: 'They deserve compassion. Not fear and judgement'. Thank you. Really. Whenever a reviewer or a piece of media tackles DID/OSDD1, That is the biggest message we worry they'll miss. There's so much hate and stigma regarding this disorder, and people believe it, and some of those people set out to cause more harm to systems, or they're professionals who have genuine power over the futures of those with the disorder... And honestly, we've all suffered enough. We have alters- mostly little ones- that just cannot comprehend why someone would be scared of us. No alter is evil; but a lot of them are very hurt. We were super hoping you'd do this episode, and oh gosh you covered it really well. 'Moon Knight' is something so close to our heart as a System; we've heard others say similar in that it's one of the only times they've ever felt 'seen' by the media (for us, it was this and the interrogation scene with Crazy Jane in ep.2 of 'Doom Patrol'). You're absoloutely correct in that Oscar Issac is... utterly incredible in this, and you can tell he did his research (a favourite of ours- as an English system with a couple of off-American-accented alters) is Steven's accent is, if I remember correctly, purposefully wrong; because the body's not English, so why would it suddenly know a perfect English accent? Such great details. The other big one is one we hoped would happen: over time, as they begin to intergrate (which- 'fusion' is the generally accepted word for alters becoming one; intergration is just breaking down walls and communication, etc) with eachother, their switching becomes less intense and quite easy; it's a thing we and other systems have personally experienced, and it single-handedly proved to us they'd done their research. Notes watching the video: • Talking to eachother in a mirror IS something you can do, but- at least for us- it's more of a focuser so you can hone in on communication (feelings, psychoverbally, sometimes yelling 'you idiot' at eachother verbally, etc. /hj). We definitely- unless there's something comorbid- don't see them move in a mirror or anything though; just sometimes a feeling like it's not You looking back at you, which can be discomforting even when you're used to it (it's in the eyes I find; they never feel like My eyes). • Episode 5 broke us. Having witnessed so many little ones in our own system who are traumatized, who witnessed our childhood, vs the ones who front all happy and don't really know what went on because they weren't Meant to... that scene in the bedroom, that hit hard; that was incredibly real, and something we actually have to give a trigger warning to when recommending it to other systems, that's how on-point it was. The response freak-out from Steven- who, an aside, we appreciate So Much is an Introject (an alter that takes their basis personality to some degree from a pre-existing person/character/object), which are also stigmatized heavily even within the DID/OSDD1 community- felt so Familiar also; it can be hard for alters who aren't educated in the matter to come to terms with not 'being the original'*- heck, our own host upon finding out he was multiple freaked out quite similarly and mentally disappeared for a week. The switch at the end of Ep. 5 was really amusing though, because yeah for some of us, you can be going through a huge breakdown and then- suddenly quite happy. Someone else is mentally having a breakdown, but front's like 'on with the day! :)'. We felt bad laughing at it, but... some moments in this series are a comedy when you live like this on a daily. *it feels important to note: it's generally accepted that there isn't actually an 'Original'. The currently accepted theory of structural dissociation suggests we actually All start in a fractured form, but systems fail to fuse and integrate at a young age due to trauma barriers. • 'The self is a collective'. Yes yes yes! Even systems struggle to come to terms with this: self-love in a system is loving eachother. 'It's a love story between members of a system' is the best description of this series I've heard, and it's not one I thought singlets would really get? We often feel this series was a Whole Different Relatable Watch to a lot of systems than it was to those without. • The scene in the beginning of Episode 6, to this day, will make most of us cry. 'I survived because I knew I wasn't alone' will take so long for any piece of DID media to top, in our opinion. It's... That whole speech hurt, in a really good place. A lot of systems didn't actually like 'you're the only real superpower', but we thought it was a fun tongue-in-cheek personally. It isn't a superpower, no, but it sometimes has its silver-linings amongst the utter hell it can be to live with CPTSD, Dissociation, Amnesia, etc. But that scene... damn that scene. We're one of those systems that said 'I've never felt so seen'. • Rapid switching does happen. Not too often, but it... happens, and it sucks. Headaches galore for us, and a lot of lack of personality. I feel like people think it's super rare, but most of the time it's a switch went to hell and back, a trigger issue, or too many alters trying to front at the same time. There's this important on stating this stuff, because those who dislike DID, or those who are less in the know, will latch onto it and spread that information around. • I kind of wish you'd covered the earlier episode where Steven acts like he can audibly hear Marc. It was a part that bugged us, because generally that's not a symptom of DID (without co-morbidities that might cause it) as far as we're aware, and it perpetuated the stigma that it's 'outside voices' which unfortunately leads to people conflating- more than usual- Schizospectrum disorders and DID/OSDD1. --- comment came out a bit longer than expected, ha- but really though: incredible series, absolutely fantastic review. Thank you for making this and getting it out there; it's so important that a channel with so many followers reports on it in a non-harmful way, and we've definitely left this video feeling seen!
I was actually first diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenic disorder because of me hearing voices, but those voices don´t come from outside but from within, from my alters.....so not a hallucination. I was very relieved when I found a psychiatrist who had a bit more knowledge and common sense. They drugged me silly at first with heavy anti-psychotics and it was awful. I think they just showed it in the scene coming from outside, like a auditory hallucination bacuse of cinematic reasons....but it ws meant to come from inside.
As a DID system, I relate so much to this feeling of looking in the mirror and feeling like it's not you looking back at you. This is so disturbing and I never heard another system talk about that so thank you!
@@anaiswinter9893 You're not the first we've heard of that happening to; people often think these misinformations only end up with non-professionals, but it's wild how misdiagnosed some disorders are due to having the wrong information. I'm glad to hear you got it sorted!
I also saw the moment between Marc and Steven as my adult self reparenting and talking to my inner child with our abandonment trauma. “You were always there, full of hope… You didn’t abandon me and there’s no way in hell I’m ever going to abandon you”.
As a system we want to say, “thank you”. This breakdown of Moon Knight was amazing. Not gonna lie, cried from joy a few times…just because it’s rare to feel seen. Just thank you. Oh and our experience with rapid switching…when there is a lot of stress rapid back and forth switching can happen.
As someone who suffered terrible psychological abuse at the hands of my mother, I can empathize greatly with Marc. The intense pain and self hatred that is a consequence of that kind of abuse is profound. Oscar Issac does such a beautiful job showing the audience that pain. Losing his mother is kind of a double loss, because not only did he lose his abusive mother, but he also lost the opportunity to have the loving mother he always wanted. I think that's why he's so devastated.
@Johanna Verplank - I agree with your assessment. When I feel badly about my long-dead parents, I have come to realize that the mourning I feel is not really about them, but for the joyous childhood that was denied to me.
Especially hurtful cuz it's not like the Mom was just a dick, she was deeply ill and clearly was never able to recover. Which must make her death even more complicated and conflicting. Cuz What IF, what if she had been able to recover, maybe she need just another year.
Yes! Well put. When my "parents" finally die, I will be devastated...not because of their death (as so many will assume), instead because the loving parents I should have had will be permanently denied to me. (not that that will ever happen...though as long as they live, the chance is always (slimly) there)
I just realised what might have caused the "How did Steve not know about the abuse" plothole, where Steven had fronted just moments earlier before Wendy came into their room. It might be because Jake might have also been created at the same moment. Marc only said "You were not supposed to know that" and the first thing Steven did after being created was started to clean the surroundings. Maybe Steven was not created to hide from Wendy, but to appease her. Many have pointed out Steven had similar interests to Layla because Marc may have wanted to have something in common with her wife. A 9-10 year old Marc would not want to just hide from her mother, because not only was he scared of her, but he also remembered what she was like before Randall died and he also blamed himself. Marc probably wanted nothing more than saving their relationship, thus creating Steven for being a 'good son' to Wendy. However, since Steven was supposed to life in a rainbow world,the moment Wendy picked up the belt would break the illusion and Marc/Jake probably fronted again to let Steven remain in peace.
Fun fact- Oscar’s brother came in as his double a lot for over-shoulder shots! Also, whenever they’re in the hospital and has the nose injury, that’s actually Jake. His accent is slightly different and you can tell if you’re looking for it!
That's so interesting! I've seen a lot of articles about actual brothers and sisters being the doubles for actors, but they never mentioned Oscar Isaac and his brother (maybe because the series is still new)
The scene of Steven's surfacing and witnessing his mother's abuse actually triggered me. I had to turn away, I could not take it. As someone who's lived in a similar experience, it hit me so deeply. That doesn't mean it's bad, I just appreciate the realism of it without being so explicit. We didn't have to see the actual violence, the clear implication is enough. This is immediately one of my fave episodes, I will always look back on this for inspiration for when I write.
One of us, I numbered us before for ease of use sake down here so we shall keep that up, number 3 specifically veto'd the show effectively for us. Exactly because of fear of such a scene. We did watch part of it later on but he remains strongly viewed on the fact that he does not desire to watch something even close to our past re-unfold. So, reading this, it does seem like he made a good call for his own sake. Regardless of entertainment value, I would not want him to suffer through something, or much worse, cause whatever he fears in myself, like memories suppressed of some kind.
@@padascos Absolutely. I am not part of a system. I did cope with my trauma by writing about different personas or having sisters that kept me safe. Obviously, I shouldn't envy having a mental disorder. But at the very least, I can say I'm glad those with DID are able to find harmony and be there for one another with their systems.
@@victoriabg373 Do not worry about admiration. It is nice to see there is such a vested interest by others. Though I appreciate the restraint much more, given at the end of the day it is nothing caused by great adventure or event, but tragedy. Alas, I like the idea of connecting with the fantasy of having a big sister or brother to back one self up in dire times. It is effectively how we hide each other in communities where we do not want to mention our DID but need to find an answer to our ways, so, we refer to one another as Brothers. While a hiding action, we also appreciate it as it is. We are effectively brothers. Just because we share a body does not change that we are different. I hope, and guess if I dare, that you are or will do better soon and get to cope with whatever struck you in your lifetime. Time is the only judge we have, and those who dare to give it time to tell shall find peace of mind in due time and other fellow minded souls.
as a system seeing young marc not only create a alter but one that was also a fictive was really something special to see done through cinema. moonknight helped us come to terms with our own plurality due to how respectful it was about it.
@@shamalow1819maybe don't tell a system how to refer to themselves. Why do so many non systems talk about that term like it's terrible anyway? Was it invented by a Nazi or something? That's what it usually is lol
15:17 what i love about this scene is that it's a subtle nod to steven's psychology. steven believes that he talks to his mother daily, even though we only see him talk to a voicemail. steven was 'born' out of marc's desire to have a healthy, loving relationship with his mum, and he is still immersed in that illusion even though he hasn't talked to his mother in an unknown time, he thinks that they're still talking
As a part of a system, the idea of watching Moon Knight fills me with so much anxiety. Partly because I don't want to see another terrible, twisted interpretation of DID like in Split... but also because I'm terrified of it being too relatable and too spot on, and how uncomfortable that would be to see a bit of ourselves in Steven and Mark. Seeing this video makes me want to try to watch it, just to see what happens though. It gives me faith at least that it won't be like Split.
heeeeeey! took the words right out of our mouth, the hive of anxiety (and excitement) around this show has been nearly impossible to describe. thanks for the concise wrap on why I haven't touched it yet, despite being medium hyped up since it was announced. Not trying to catch any extra pain from another terrible, monster-style representation, I so dearly just want to see it be "right" or even just "okay" to see, just once. but also, we're all desperately afraid of the real emotions on the table, confronting them in someone else's story. If they get it "right," it means someone's having the misery of their life, I don't want THAT. -I- want to enjoy this media, but we know we're not ...ready yet?
I really want to take it upon myself to learn and understand about DID for a character I'm writing. My character actually doesn't have DID but is actually a woman who's possessed by an angel and they share equal control of the " vessel " although normally the human is the one steering simply because she's significantly more extroverted lol. BUT, I want to understand DID because if my character is ever caught switching by someone who doesn't know what they are, I want my character to lie and say they have DID but not write it like a joke but actually use the correct terminology. I'd like to use it as an opportunity to give a little education and also potentially show what kind of crap and ignorance systems face. Fun fact, the angel character speaks with a British accent but she actually chooses to speak with an accent just so it's easier for people to know who's speaking. Their eyes would change colours depending who's talking and there's different body language as well. I'm writing these characters for a show I'm trying to write a pilot script for so I'm overthinking about every little detail about them and tips to give the actress who'd be playing them. Different accents, different speech patterns, different body language, different behaviors etc. Typically, both characters are completely aware of everything going on with the body, I like to think of them like conjoined twins or like two people have their limbs tied together and they move as one. But, the only time the human (the actual owner of the body) is unaware of what the angel is doing when the angel is I control is when the human is asleep. Angels don't sleep. Typically the angel just uses the night as time to do paperwork and research etc (they are detectives ). I'd love to hear from systems about their thoughts and ideas and input. I'd love to hear if you have funny DID related stories, how people typically react to seeing a switch or learning about your system and what kind of negative responses you get (to give awareness).
As someone with DID (diagnosed ~3 years ago) I cried through all six hours. It was really raw, and by the end a part of me kind of felt like I'd been scraped open for the whole world to see. It made me do a lot of introspection. It also triggered me a lot though, so I would say DON'T binge it, do take breaks.
As a system, we had the same reservations and took quite a while to finally watch, but we loved it. Can’t say I personally cried or got too triggered since big emotions aren’t really my MO, but it’s definitely an emotional show and would affect a lot of people more than it did me. Oscar’s acting is incredible, and it’s hard not to connect with the vulnerable moments the Moon Knight system has. I think it’s wise to take it in smaller chunks if your emotions are more easily influenced by media you connect to. But I do think it’s worth watching and generally does a really good job with representation (outside of the parts they had to dramatize or represent in new ways for it to work on film and make more sense to singlet viewers-but you can’t really hold that against them because it’s necessary).
There's at least one more personality we haven't specifically met, too. There's things that happen that neither Marc nor Stephen recognizes. There are these short blips that are neither of them. I need more of this show.
i got the sense that the whole reason why steven had no memories of his mom's abuse, why he believed he had a happy childhood, was that... when marc was faced with his mother's abuse, he would slip into steven because steven was brave. but steven also existed to live a normal childhood, so when the abuse was actually happening, _steven would slip into jake._ and the whole time it was actually jake bearing the brunt of the trauma and that's how jake became this completely unfeeling murderous psychopath.
Which seems like a far to close to home experience for this kind of deal. Almost too reasonable and possible to not be common. Maybe it is. I can only attest to the fact that one alter, in our case, was burdened with knowledge of it all, and the interaction with it, which certainly messed him up. He is better now, should you be wondering. We are working on it best we can.
It is a common theory going around that Jake was indeed the one taking on the abuse, even though - as far as I am aware - it has not been confirmed by the show-runners or Marvel Studios... But it would make the most sense, since Steve does not remember and Marc is the one "slipping out"
Or maybe "Stephen Grant has no fear" or specifically no fear of their mother. Stephen may have manifested a delusion that his mother wasn't someone to fear, and no matter what she did to him, he couldn't develop that fear. The trauma was still real though and in order to repress his mother's abuse Jake compartmentalized it. Jake became so broken from knowing only trauma and being deprived of joy that he developed psychopathy. It's multiple layers of psychology: a DID system, but each personality can have another mental disorder.
At 8:34, a lot of us fans have speculated that that's not actually Marc, but the system's 3rd alter, Jake. 1. His accent is quite unique from both marc and steven 2. Jake in the comics is a boxer and is often portrayed with a bandage over his nose 3. Jake is quick(er) to take action to try and remove the system from danger (AKA ned flanders)
I’m pretty sure it’s been confirmed to not be jake though. That and Marc explicitly remembers the events when “Jake” appeared, which isn’t what he normally does
@@ma.2089 I don't think it's Jake the whole time, I think it's him when he shoots up & grabs the paper weight(?) to start stabbing. He speaks a little differently & it feels a touch more violent than Mark would be, though I'm not sure why I think the latter lol I haven't looked into it, that's just my thought
@@chickadeestevenson5440 the one Marc didn't open? I thought that contained his mother, kinda looked like her... Doesn't really make sense that she'd be in a sarcophagus though, does it, though she _is_ dead... Maybe there's a fourth, female alter? (I have no idea about the comics, but Marvel has a history of deviating from the comics, cf. Mandarin)
5:45 It really varies system to system. This scene to us looked a lot more like coconciousness than rapid switching (essentially one person is driving and the other is in the passenger's seat, as opposed to two people yanking the wheel back and forth.), and it's actually pretty common. For us, we almost always have multiple people in front, either blended together, sharing different aspects of control, or sort of with one person "driving" and a couple others in the passenger seat. Conversations like this are very much possible for us and are a regular part of day to day life, although there aren't any mirrors involved and usually the conversation occurs entirely in our head. (Sometimes we do write it out in a notebook though. Helps sort through who's who when there are a *lot* of us in front.) Rapid switching, on the other hand, also happens, but tends to make it fairly hard to communicate. In our experience and from what we've heard, it tends to be very disorientating and make everyone involved feel like a blurry mess. Different systems also have different definitions of what "rapid switching" is for them. For us, multiple switches a day is pretty normal, and tends not to cause too much distress. Back in high school we'd typically switch almost every class, as different system members have different subject preferences and skillsets. (Ex: Sam is the best at math. Our memory barriers are low enough that we can all usually remember the information equally, but the way Sam processes things make actually doing math problems easier for him than most other system members.) Also, on the accents thing, which was mentioned later, a lot of us have different accents than the body in the headspace, but we... can't actually do them while fronting. The brain knows how an Australian accent sounds, but not how to convincingly replicate one, plus the body doesn't have the necessary muscle memory. Unfortunately for me, this means that if I attempt to replicate my inner world accent, I usually somehow end up sounding like I'm doing a really bad irish accent. -Mina and Pearl
Fun fact, in a lot of scenes, the body double is oscar issacs brother! so he was doing those performances opposite someone he loved deeply the way steven and marc would have loved each other. i think that is part of what made it so powerful. In a lot of ways Steven and Marc are brothers, so Oscar getting to have those moments with his own brother must have been really emotional.
Moon Knight has influenced my system so so so much! The amount that we've related to it and have strived to improve because of it is notable. It's really touching to see such a beautiful portrayal of such a misunderstood disorder. My experience with system discovery was very much like Steven's, in that I thought I was the "original" for a long time, only to realize I've actually only existed as a consciousness for 3 or 4 years. Being the current host of your system like Steven and I, and the host that figures it out for that matter, can cause you to want to 'defend your title' in a way. You see yourself as the "real one" or the "core identity" that everyone else split off of (there's about 8 of us total), only to realize that the actual person/people (it's usually more than one,) that've been around the longest are chilling somewhere in headspace. When I met one of those type of people for my system, they tried to get rid of me. So, already off to an amazing start. They, and I quote, "Wanted the body back so that they could be normal again." whatever that meant. And as bogus and Hollywood as it sounds, it's a genuine thing that a ton of systems go through. We all want to be "normal" like everyone else, whatever normal means. So, when I, the current host, spoke to our primary protector, one of the first alters to form, she wanted me out so that she could live her life. I obviously fought her, and we fought for over a year. But it wasn't until recently that we had our little Steven and Marc moment. We had to work together to get through the bad parts of having DID and I went through some really horrible things. Bad enough to cause another alter to emerge fully. Someone who is very dear to me, very much like a brother. Anyways, me and my primary protector had our moment where she realized her trying to get rid of me was hurting the system (which is the opposite of her job btw,) and she apologized for what she did. Now she's like my cool wine aunt who sneaks me out of school to go shopping or whatever cool wine aunts do. We love each other and it's awesome. We are far from perfect though and there are still things we need to work on and other relationships to heal, but with this, we've come a bit closer and now we can all fight like badasses :))
First, thanks for sharing so intimate experiencie. I would like to ask if its ok for you, how all the interaction/communication between the members of the system works? Thanks a lot!!
@@lajenbajen_ I’d love to answer that! So we as a system have very thick amnesia walls. Thick enough that the way we found out we were a system was when our little fronted for the first time in years. We’ve noticed it’s harder for some people to communicate with each other than others so we’ve assumed it’s because we have subsystems. Subsystems are basically just alters that are separate from others. Kinda like cliques in school where everyone goes to the same school but we just have people it’s easier to talk to. it doesn’t have to do with how well we get along tho, it mainly occurs because of how the brain compartmentalizes certain alters by role. so, for example, my caretaker/ primary protector, my emotional protector, and our little are all in a subsystem with me. We all work in tandem to be able to live our life as one unit so we all are able to talk to each other much easier than people in the other subsystem, which includes one of the old hosts, their sexual protector, and their caretaker/the systems gatekeeper. Our primary protector (Bett) is sort of like the bridge between all of us bc she’s the old hosts physical protector and can talk to mostly everyone in the system. Now, thanks to therapy, it’s much easier to talk to my subsystem of alters in headspace (it sorta sounds like thoughts but not my thoughts, like they’re in a different voice but a thought voice not an actual voice; i don’t actually hear anything when they talk to me.) but before, i couldn’t talk to them at all. Before, we mainly communicated through writing in our journal, sticky notes, or our notes app. That, and the fact that Bett can talk to them, is the only reason I know about the alters in the other subsystem. I’ve read their journal entries, i’ve read their notes, i’ve heard my therapist mention their names, but i’ve never actually spoken to them. I think i might have co-fronted with one (Harley is her name) once while Bett was there, but that was because Harley was doing their sexual protector duties and Bett was stopping her bc we weren’t in any danger and she has some self destructive tendencies. That’s probably the most contact I’ve had with anyone outside of my subsystem. I do have a pen-pal type relationship with the old host tho, we have the same music and book tastes so we share control of the Spotify and audible account. There are people I don’t know anything about, like our gatekeeper, our little, and an introject i’ve never met. Our little is in my subsystem but she doesn’t really like to talk to anyone other than Bett. Our gatekeeper on the other hand is in the other subsystem and doesn’t talk to Bett much so she doesn’t have much to tell me about him. The introject isn’t in either subsystem and might be dormant. The only reason I know he exists is because my therapist met him once and never again. I’m sorry this got really long but I hope this answers your question!
@@LOBSTERMANN3000 it helps a lot! And don't worry about the extension, I think that even that is long, it was necessary to understand it right, specially the last 2 or 3 pharagraphs. I'm someone that had never experienced that (not more than "a talk with yourself"), so more information helps to understand something that only know for fictions (and maybe in a wrong way, like the video suggests) Thanks for sharing so much of your life!! Specially to an unknown. 😁
Thanks for sharing something personal like this; It's nice to hear that you and your primary protector were able to come to an understanding. Wine aunt ftw lol. That said, just the image of a bunch of identities fighting over who "the original" is, while the actual first is just chilling in a corner is kinda funny to me. Question though: There are a lot of terms here that I think I vaguely get, but not completely. Would you care to explain what terms like "little", "gatekeeper", and "host" mean/entail? How are these roles typically defined specifically?
@@DTux5249 (1/2) Yes yes yes. I'd be happy to and sorry for assuming everyone knew what the terms meant! Ok so alter roles are kind of bs in some cases (my opinion) and just cause unnecessary confusion. depending on how many alters the system has, alters can take on 2 or 3 different roles the smaller the system is. For example, Marc, Steven, and Jake all take on so many roles that I can barely pinpoint them. At this point, having roles would be kind of pointless. That being said, I can speak to how we use the terms to figure out who might front when and what the words mean. You can predict a lot about who might be fronting based on situation alone! Imma give a basic definition of each role and what they do: Host: the alter that fronts most often. If there's more than one alter that fits that description, they would both be co-hosts. Hosts usually Identify with the name the body goes by and how the body looks but depending on how many different hosts there are this could stop being the case for one reason or another, which I will get to later on. Protector: pretty self-explanatory. they protect other alters from various things and usually don't hold trauma. A primary protector is one that kinda does it all like a general protector and a first line of defense, at least for my system. Physical protectors specialize in keeping the body safe from physical harm and may even fight back to defend the body in some cases. Emotional protectors take over the body when emotions get too strong and may even act as soothers for alters in emotional distress or will just front when in a highly emotional situation if an alter can't handle it. Sexual protectors are exclusive to systems that have experienced sexual assault and take over when the body is being sexually assaulted or in sexual distress to either perform for the abuser and not show fear to keep the body safe or just endure the assault in place of another alter. These kinds of alters may be hypersexual and may even harm the body because of their hypersexuality or they may be asexual and have a bad relationship with sex, or they fit into neither of those boxes, but sexual protectors do vary like that to the point that it's notable. Some systems may also have internal protectors to keep alters safe from internal abuse. Jake, Imo feels like a physical protector for both Marc and Steven, since he takes over when physical fighting and abuse becomes too much for Marc or Steven to handle. Persecutors: these are alters that actively seek to harm other alters in the system. although they may seem counterproductive on the surface, persecutors act as a sort of misguided protector or a protector who holds trauma. they are alters with good intentions but bad ways of fulfilling their role as a protector. Most of the time, the logic is "if I hurt the others enough, they'll be stronger the next time someone hurts us." they'll gladly be the bad guy if it means the system can handle more abuse when (if) it comes. With therapy, persecutors usually realize what they're doing isn't helping and they may become a protector or just a trauma holder. (oh, hoho perfect segway) Trauma holder: another self-explanatory one but this one is the first of the roles that can double and make things complicated. trauma holders hold trauma. They're the ones that remember so others don't have to. They may only front during trauma and act as a punching bag, or they serve as protectors that may or may not turn into persecutors. in our case, our emotional protector who takes over when things get too much is also a trauma holder. he protects from and holds on to the trauma, but trauma holders can also just take the suppressed memories from protectors so that protectors can do their job without the weight of trauma. I would probably consider Marc a trauma holder as well as a host because he's the one who held on to the bad memories so steven didn't have to. but at the same time, he could also be considered a physical protector for Steven because he endured the physical abuse. Smaller systems like in Moon Knight and definitely much more confusing lmao. Gatekeeper: these are alters that see all and know all. they can sometimes stop alters from feeling certain emotions/put them in a dissociative state, deny access to certain memories, and most importantly, they can push and pull alters to and from the front. they are the big person in charge, the brains of the operation, if you will. These alters are rare to front and usually keep in headspace to have better control of everything. Most people think hosts are the ones in charge because you see them outside the most, but more often than not hosts answer to gatekeepers and often don't remember much or feel much because of the influence of gate keepers and this could cause a rift between the two. It sure has for me and my gatekeeper, I've never even met or heard from the guy and he literally yoinks all my memories. littles: child alters. this is less of a role and more an age range. littles have the mannerisms cognitive behavior and thinking skills of a child. they highly resemble children in their interests, the way they speak, the way they act, etc. A big misconception though is that littles cannot access adult parts of the brain. Littles are capable of doing adult chores, they understand things at the educational level as someone the body's age and have the same capacity for though as a person the body's age. they are not, however, capable of adult decision making, are usually quite naive, and do not have an understanding of things to be able to consent like an adult. littles should be taken care of as if they were children because, usually, their purpose is to be the child the body never got to be. littles are not really their own role because littles can be protectors, ex-hosts, trauma holders, gatekeepers, and persecutors. usually, the goal of a system with littles is to relieve them of their role so that they can just be kids. As for an example of a little having a role, in our system we have a little who was about 8 and was a hypersexual sexual protector. she didn't necessarily enjoy sex but felt as though she needed to keep performing her role and would take over even when the body wasn't in sexual danger. It was very sad and I'm glad she no longer feels she needs to do that.
System here. This entire series was a blessing. By the nature of how people around us and just in general view DID, we never would've imagined we'd ever land in a place this healthy in media, finally. The fact that this show exists makes me feel like I can finally breathe, and that we can take ourselves more seriously. Admit how incredibly difficult this all is, and not constantly feel like a burden for not just being one person. It'll take a lifetime to get over that feeling, of course. It's hard not to sit there feeling like a massive burden about it. We recently got a new job as a delivery driver. It's a great company, and the staff is small and tight nit, and like a family. Self describing as a bunch of squirrels in a nut house lol. They all know we have it. They treat us as separate individual people, and respect us as we are. It's a breath of fresh air, and working here has made us the most okay we've ever been, even though things are still repairing from physically and mentally horrific conditions. We're really lucky to have them, as well as our fiancé who also has DID. We're also so lucky to have you guys at cinema therapy. Seriously, clicking on a video by you guys and hanging out just to sob over things you point out that never came to mind really makes us feel at home. Thank you for making us realize that we really do have it nasty with our "family" and in general, and that it's not just weakness or selfishness. It's really validating to come here and realize how effed up we really are. Usually right over on the tears train with Alan haha, and I couldn't be more grateful for it. Jonathan and Alan, seriously, thank you both so much for this channel. You guys really make the world feel okay for a bit.
If I may ask, is your fiance the system's fiance or one alter's (is that the correct term?) fiance? Is everyone in your system in a relationship with everyone in the fiance's system? Or is it specific personalities that are engaged? I'm just curious, but feel free to not answer for whatever reason. I don't want to offend, I'm just curious how relationships with others work when a system.
@@katwolf897 Hey no worries at all, it's good to ask questions. So both systems are collectively engaged to each other, but individually the relationships all differ from romantic, sexual, platonic, and anywhere from close to acquaintances. Dating started with a few couples but at this point, we're all mostly close in some way even if not always in any sorta dating way
To be fair dating relationships aren't a majority. We're just engaged cause we're all so close and intertwined. Collectively it's like a really cozy best friendship with some spice thrown in lol. It's really nice
I really want to take it upon myself to learn and understand about DID for a character I'm writing. My character actually doesn't have DID but is actually a woman who's possessed by an angel and they share equal control of the " vessel " although normally the human is the one steering simply because she's significantly more extroverted lol. BUT, I want to understand DID because if my character is ever caught switching by someone who doesn't know what they are, I want my character to lie and say they have DID but not write it like a joke but actually use the correct terminology. I'd like to use it as an opportunity to give a little education and also potentially show what kind of crap and ignorance systems face. Fun fact, the angel character speaks with a British accent but she actually chooses to speak with an accent just so it's easier for people to know who's speaking. Their eyes would change colours depending who's talking and there's different body language as well. I'm writing these characters for a show I'm trying to write a pilot script for so I'm overthinking about every little detail about them and tips to give the actress who'd be playing them. Different accents, different speech patterns, different body language, different behaviors etc. Typically, both characters are completely aware of everything going on with the body, I like to think of them like conjoined twins or like two people have their limbs tied together and they move as one. But, the only time the human (the actual owner of the body) is unaware of what the angel is doing when the angel is I control is when the human is asleep. Angels don't sleep. Typically the angel just uses the night as time to do paperwork and research etc (they are detectives ). I'd love to hear from systems about their thoughts and ideas and input. I'd love to hear if you have funny DID related stories, how people typically react to seeing a switch or learning about your system and what kind of negative responses you get (to give awareness).
I loved this so much, especially the realisation Steven is not just an alter, but a fictive, a kind of alter that's so easily, so often looked down upon as fake and childish and pretend and we see just how real a person he is. Because all alters are fully real in terms of having memories, making choices, having goals, in terms of their self awareness and conscious thought.
The use of the term 'fictive' is misleading. It was originally created to describe the writing creative process. It has been adopted by DID systems, but people need to accept that there are multiple meanings and not argue over the "true" meaning, but that you have to define the term when you use it. Much like scientists coopted the words "magic" and "charmed" for specific physics tbat do not relate to fantasy.
@@krishadyn5211lots of words have multiple definitions im not sure why we specifically have to define fictive especially when this is a comment on a did related video so of course theyre using that definition...?um.
Hearing Steven say "Marc all those things she said to you, it isn't true. It wasn't your fault. You were just a child." Its heartwrenching to hear the one considered the weak one by outside forces to see the truth. That despite all the ugliness in the world, Marc is still a child who blames himself, believes the words of his abusive mother and is scared. Steven is the kindness Marc never had and that is what he gives to Marc. So when Marc goes back to save Steven, and says you are the only superpower I ever needed, it broke me. Because its the most powerful thing that the victims of abuse can have: self-love
I read the "rapid switching" during the climactic fight scene to be a visual shorthand for the fact that they're co-conscious, which I thought was a really smart way to go about it.
Months later, I still cry every time I remember the "don't call my mom" scene, the whole episode 5 it's just so vulnerable and so real, and Oscar is just fantastic in every moment
I was once talking to someone who had DID, but hadn't told anyone. And they switched during the conversation. So, I got to know two people that day. They were very apologetic about it the next day, but they had nothing to be sorry for. While it wasn't a super dramatic change in personality, I could definitely tell I went from talking to a girl, to talking to a boy. A whole different person.
Also worth noting is that when Steven and Marc come to terms with each other and get along better, their switches between each other are much less dramatic. It’s both more realistic and a good way to communicate to the audience that Marc and Steven are communicating as a system now
I love Marc's breakdown following his refusal to attend his mother's shiva. So many emotions, loss because part of him still loved his mother despite everything, regret that he'll never be able to make peace with her, shame for not being there with his family in their time of need. Fantastic scene by the writers, and Oscar Isaac brought it out so well.
honestly as much as i hated the mother(i understood why but as a guy i will never be able to experience on her level,neither do i wish to,being hurt is not excuse to hurt others) it was heartbreaking to see how damaged marc was.she abused him and made his life a liveing hell,thus obviously he hated her,but somewhere he couldn't just kill the image of her and felt dirty for not aattending his last memory of her being "alive".i loved moon knight but episode 5 was completely crazy in execution and exploration and i loved it
I've always thought that people with DID were injured to the point that they needed a safe place, and the only safe place was to splinter. I have my own issues, but to hurt that badly, that the only place you can go is another place you've created in your mind. I'm so sorry for anyone that has been through that kind of pain and turmoil. May you know peace, may you heal if that is the path you wish, and may you make that place of safety for yourself in the outside world.
As someone who is part of a system, you’re pretty much correct. When enough happens to a child brain, the brain cannot fully form an identity and that with memory walls (or amnesia) opens the gate to splitting alters
Yeah that's pretty much what happens. Traumatic events are any event that overwhelms your ability to process it in the moment. For children, everything is already overwhelming, every bad thing is the end of the world and every good thing is the best thing you've ever experienced. That's why DID develops in childhood; you overwhelm that child with too much negative, and that child is spending so much time on those events that they don't get to develop a coherent identity. So it splits itself off and breaks those events apart, sort of. Tries to containerize it in a different box, to protect itself. Fun part is that the more your brain learns to do this, the more open you are to becoming poly fragmented, because instead of developing an actual coping mechanism, your brain sees stress and decides mitosis is easier than trying to unpack it, because it always has been. Fun stuff. At least, that's our understanding of it all.
There's so much that hit home for me in Moon Knight, particularly the scene where Mark is talking to Layla about how maybe she doesn't really know him because he's concealed his mental illness and trauma from her. So many small moments throughout the show that I was just like oh, so that's not just me. Cool.
@@melodyfussell829 I think you're right, and also, Steven really reminds me of Layla, they have the same hobbies, he likes her favorite writer, not only he feel safe enough not to switch, his protector have a lot of common with his wife.
@@melodyfussell829 Honestly I see why. Even when she didn't fully understand it she was so kind to them and caring. She was upset but she still loved them. Steven probably went dormant during that time as Marc didn't need an escape. Although I'm pretty sure Marc never told Layla about his abuse and alters as he thought that he was a horrible person who killed his own brother and deserved the abuse, and if Layla knew who he truly was, she wouldn't love him (of course it's not true, but that's probably how he felt).
Oscar Isaac deserves SO MANY awards for his portrayal of Mark & Steven, especially in the backstory episode. I cried, followed every beat, could see every switch. He is 100% amazing!!!
Gentle correction (as requested): it’s not deeply uncommon to have internal dialogue between aspects of the self. This is often experienced as thoughts which the presenting part/alter would consider “not their own” but also doesn’t consider to be outside their own body (auditory hallucination) or put in their head (as seen sometimes with psychosis/delusional thinking). In fact, a key component of DID treatment is increasing the patient’s pre-existing awareness of and engagement between all parts of the self. It definitely isn’t experienced as literally seeing your reflection talk to you though. And it can vary greatly within the same patient whether they experience the internal dialogue as a smooth flow of thoughts back and forth, or as a very strained, abstract, and delayed call-and-response. It depends a great deal on the degree of personal dissociation the presenting part/alter is experiencing at any given time.
Yeah, I feel it is very uncomment in the "early stages" where the host or maybe even several personality aspects are unaware of the other but grows more commen as along with the awareness
I'm married to a system of 2 and it happens quite often that they'll have a dialogue at the speed of thought that ends with a joke and a physical outward chuckle; I'll pipe in with a "what? I want to hear the joke too." We've been married for 6 years and I love them so much.
Yeah. Sometimes it's like "welp, im stuck here by myself a guess." And other times its sort of like i have a peanut gallery who likes to make sarcastic remarks about everything i do (playfully of course, not mean spirited)
Watching this with my mom, was actually a really powerful way for her to understand what goes on in my head, as a person with DID. And at the end of the series, she actually understood for the first time why there were different alters and why the protector personality was established. It was a really amazing moment. And thank you for taking the time to not only review this, and show some of the incredibly powerful moments, but acknowledge that a system is an alternative way of existing, rather than something that needs to be fixed.
I really want to take it upon myself to learn and understand about DID for a character I'm writing. My character actually doesn't have DID but is actually a woman who's possessed by an angel and they share equal control of the " vessel " although normally the human is the one steering simply because she's significantly more extroverted lol. BUT, I want to understand DID because if my character is ever caught switching by someone who doesn't know what they are, I want my character to lie and say they have DID but not write it like a joke but actually use the correct terminology. I'd like to use it as an opportunity to give a little education and also potentially show what kind of crap and ignorance systems face. Fun fact, the angel character speaks with a British accent but she actually chooses to speak with an accent just so it's easier for people to know who's speaking. Their eyes would change colours depending who's talking and there's different body language as well. I'm writing these characters for a show I'm trying to write a pilot script for so I'm overthinking about every little detail about them and tips to give the actress who'd be playing them. Different accents, different speech patterns, different body language, different behaviors etc. Typically, both characters are completely aware of everything going on with the body, I like to think of them like conjoined twins or like two people have their limbs tied together and they move as one. But, the only time the human (the actual owner of the body) is unaware of what the angel is doing when the angel is I control is when the human is asleep. Angels don't sleep. Typically the angel just uses the night as time to do paperwork and research etc (they are detectives ). I'd love to hear from systems about their thoughts and ideas and input. I'd love to hear if you have funny DID related stories, how people typically react to seeing a switch or learning about your system and what kind of negative responses you get (to give awareness).
I worked in IT for years. I once had a client who almost certainly had DID. He wanted me to secure his computer, which I did, but I was “hacked” within 24hrs. The poor guy was so genuinely concerned that someone was messing with him, drugging him (because he would lose hours or days of his life). When he went to jail after reporting that someone broke into his house and put drugs in his pants pockets, I advocated as hard as I could for the guy. I still think of him often and wish him the best.
What I love love LOVE about this show is that it's one of the best representations not only about DID but of neurodivergent conditions. People with any brain working that deviates from the norm are usually portrayed either as creepy or poor tortured souls, they are designed to inspire more pity and disgust than actual compassion. What they did here was, not only to make Steven and Marc inspire authentic compassion and sympathy, but also to be strong protagonists. they're not a victim to pity, they are badass heroes who just happen to be part of a DID system, and that is beautiful.
I was SO SCARED when my siblings told me about this series. I was so painfully aware of how badly DiD was treated by media. The relief I felt when one by one my fears where laid to rest.
Something i really liked is the relationship to Konchu and how Systems aren't dangerous to others, but actually *more vulnerable* to being used and abused *again.* How he takes advantage of them, how Mark suffered, and then *lies* to them and takes advantage of another alter in the system (they dont know about and therefore can't shield against. and the implication they cannot be sure how often he could try to do this). that thought is terrifying but strikes me as sadly realistic. a system as a victim and the bad influence coming from an outsider i havent seen before and was also done with such compassion. you just want them to heal and be happy and konchu to get the hell out
Firstly, I love how Moon Knight does not shy away from the fact that DID is a DISSOCIATIVE disorders. That plays so well into the fact that one of the big conflicts is that the system isn't working together. They are not looking after the lives each alter is living and once they come to terms with and accept each other, those issues become less.
Btw if anyone wants to read a moon knight book that also focuses on the DID aspect, I really recommend the jeff lemire run. The asylum episode is directly based off it, and the book itself spends a lot more time there and on marc's relationship with his mental health. It also features his alters heavily in the 2nd half and is just a beautiful depiction of the system as a whole working together to reclaim their lives for the themselves.
That moment when Steven fell from the boat destroyed me. That proves how good they portrayed his character until then. He's finally the one protecting Marc and taking the decision and he got rewarded by freezing to death in a desert, with the dead. I was so glad he came back and that Marc came for him ! I appreciate a lot more those Marvel series who treats about trauma and family than the rest. That's why Wanda Vision, Moon Knight and Miss Marvel are my favorite of the bunch.
WandaVision had the same impact on me that Moon Knight seems to have had on people with DID. Just "yes! yes! This is exactly how it feels!" And just seeing it expressed in a way that feels... true, for lack of a better word, is so comforting. That there is someone who completely gets it.
This...I loved all the shows mentioned because of that. Ms. Marvel is my favorite because of how they had to progress in both prejudices from outside the community (Mosque surveillance) to prejudices (Women pray in the back, decrepit part of building and never voted to office in Mosque) in their culture as well. Like they push the kids to be great and when the children called them on their progressive stance to the outside world but not in the community/culture is such a fascinating thing to see
Absolutely love how the show makes you get used to the dynamic of "Steven is the kind & innocent coward, and Marc is the rough & brave protector". And then episode 5 hits you with the "When danger is near, Steven Grant has no fear" line kinda implying that to Marc, Steven is the brave one. (Dynamics like this, where the one that is more outwardly confident secretly looks up to/respects the more timid one just really get to me). Also, love the seen with Steven telling Marc that it's not his fault and that he shouldn't blame himself for what happened to his brother. Self forgiveness is something a lot of people struggle with and I feel like a lot of people wish they could just give the more damaged parts of themselves a hug and say "it's okay"/"it's not your fault".
@05:23 Hi there! PixelDee system here; recently diagnosed back in August.. There's a term called "Co-con" or "Co-concious", which both myself and my alter are like, 75% of the time. We believe that Steven and Marc, as they learn and interact with each other, learning eachother and growing, there's less "Time Loss" between when Marc switches in and Steven takes back control. They're working in harmony. A good way to describe, at least for me, with myself and my alter, is that we're driving a car, I'm driving the body, while my alter is in the passenger seat.. it's hard to describe..
Wow, really? Thats… hard to believe. Like, you’re not lying and it would be rude to say you’re lying yet it’s still hard to believe. Well, if it’s good then I say “good for you!” If it’s bad I say “I’m sorry for you.” At least you’re never lonely? I’m not sure what to say.
''People with DID have suffered and they deserve compassion, not fear and judgment.'' Thank you Jonathan. Just that was enough for me. Respect ! I love that series so much and I can't wait to see the rest of it. Finally something that portrayed DID for what it really is for me or for others. Obviously it's not 100% right, but i put it on the artistic telling. Great episode !
I was diagnosed with DID in ~2016 and moon knight did so well. It almost made me cry seeing it depicted so realistically and with such.... nuance and love. Moon Knight was my favourite comic character even before my diagnosis, and seeing the episode with the psych ward excited me as a fan because there ARE whole moon knight comics that turn out to be entirely in Mark's head. I was absolutely convinced that in the last scene where he wakes up chained to the bed and asks "Are you there?" that we would not get a response, leaving us to wonder if any of it had happened after all.
I really want to take it upon myself to learn and understand about DID for a character I'm writing. My character actually doesn't have DID but is actually a woman who's possessed by an angel and they share equal control of the " vessel " although normally the human is the one steering simply because she's significantly more extroverted lol. BUT, I want to understand DID because if my character is ever caught switching by someone who doesn't know what they are, I want my character to lie and say they have DID but not write it like a joke but actually use the correct terminology. I'd like to use it as an opportunity to give a little education and also potentially show what kind of crap and ignorance systems face. Fun fact, the angel character speaks with a British accent but she actually chooses to speak with an accent just so it's easier for people to know who's speaking. Their eyes would change colours depending who's talking and there's different body language as well. I'm writing these characters for a show I'm trying to write a pilot script for so I'm overthinking about every little detail about them and tips to give the actress who'd be playing them. Different accents, different speech patterns, different body language, different behaviors etc. Typically, both characters are completely aware of everything going on with the body, I like to think of them like conjoined twins or like two people have their limbs tied together and they move as one. But, the only time the human (the actual owner of the body) is unaware of what the angel is doing when the angel is I control is when the human is asleep. Angels don't sleep. Typically the angel just uses the night as time to do paperwork and research etc (they are detectives ). I'd love to hear from systems about their thoughts and ideas and input. I'd love to hear if you have funny DID related stories, how people typically react to seeing a switch or learning about your system and what kind of negative responses you get (to give awareness).
As someone with DID, i actually cried. Thank you so much for having compassion for us and listening to us. So often, we are told our experiences are fake and manipulative, and despite how much we protest, we are seen as maligerers and abusive people. Thank you, really. I appreciate this.
Reading and seeing all these comments about people with DID who watched the show and the video and how much it means to them, makes all this feel so wholesome. I know there is a stigma about people with DID and it's so wholesome and heartwarming to hear that this has made them all feel welcome
There are 5 of us all together. I'm the host and original, but we all work together and make decisions together on the best course of action for the body and for my life. They're my family. I thought they were a disease for so long and finally in the past 5 years have really grown to love them and can't imagine a life without them. We are there for each other. Thank you Marvel, for finally showing the world that we aren't monsters.
18:35 “Young Mark has a mother who hates him and abuses him.” As a DID system, it is so much more nuanced. What if the mother that screams at him, who is disgusted by him, who beats him is the same mother who sings the lullaby and rocks him to sleep, who bakes the cookies, who points out the beautiful flower beside the road? And she is the same mother who cries, who holds a knife pointed at her own belly while trembling, who wishes she (the mother) were dead.? Most adults would find it hard to reconcile that these three mothers are the same mother. And yet they are. How is a very young child supposed to make sense of the chaos that is the mother that they so desperately love and need and hate and fear and worry about? Is it really any wonder that a system of parts develops within the child? Dare I say, how could it not? If I say the truth as a system in a 50+ year old female body, it is so much easier to believe I am unloveable (which hurts a lot) than to try and reconcile the complex wounded women who is my mother (and still I try). I wonder if it is not just the pain of abuse that contributes greatly to the creation of DID, but its juxtaposition with gentle caring and love from the same person.
Usually when we switch, we just stare somewhere, get really braindead for a bit, and then (according to onlookers) my facial expression changes. When someone knows me, they can tell who is at the front. I am lucky and get to live my life unbothered mostly. There have been very, very violent short term switches, usually when a protector came out, the situation turned back into normal, but when someone triggers the protector again. That switch can be instantanious - and it mentally hurts. I usually get a migraine when someone does that to me. The prortayal in Moon Knight is definitely a lot more accurate. Snip had the more realistic switching for my own experience.
Our job is to care for people with dementia. I love how it makes us able to be both sensitive to those who need it. To support and identify emotions and know how to help them even though they are essentially voiceless and, at the same time able to stand up strong when one of them gets violent. And then, because we are all together, once the client forgets why they are so angry, we can switch right back to friendly and smiling and problem solve that outburst. It's just smooth and beautiful. I love it!
As a plural system, we are often co-concious and there have been times where we have switched rapidly, and it's on my watchlist and haven't watched it yet, I seriously appreciate how moon knight portrays system members as full, actual living breathing individuals. I would also recommend looking up Power to the Plurals, a nonprofit organization that was founded by plurals for plurals and they have a conference every year and they help medical professionals and therapists and they also do research on plurality as a whole. Furthermore, there's been a new study called Transgender Mental Health written by Dr. Eric Yarbourough, who is Head of Psychiatry at the Callen-Lorde Community Health Center, a health center dedicated specifically to serving the LGBTQIA2+ community and Distinguished Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association and there's actually a whole section dedicated to plurality.
I’d love to hear what y’all think of this show once you see it! I don’t know much about DID except for what I’ve seen on TV, and I know that generally, its sorely terribly represented. I’d love to learn more about it from systems themselves!
i noticed you switched between "we" and "I". Was that intentional? I hope I'm not being rude, I have bipolar disorder which is also so often badly portrayed, so I like to learn about/talk to other nuero-divergent people.
Okay, I just want to say that y'all have the coolest system name I've ever seen. Assuming that your username is what your system is called, anyway. If it isn't, then your username is still badass. It sounds like a band name or something.
Got a question for them if I'm not intruding over this, how much is the switching a conscious/voluntary action? For example, one of them absolutely cannot tolerate loud music, is it possible they'd get the crap of luck of switching to the noise sensitive personality (I'm not really sure how to refer to an individual in a system in a way that's concise and humanizing, so I apologize if I fuck up with that) in the middle of a very loud rave or something. Would the enviroment/context prevent/delay the switch from happening if it caused direct distress? essentially.
@@garablacktail5426 the systems I know swtiching is very voluntary unless there's a direct threat and one of the protectors will force a shift. One I know goes 'inside' and someone else comes out the door. There was an instance were one of the alts was curious and came out without asking and then actually had the 'holy fuck this music is LOUD' moment and promptly scurried back in. But the protectors seem to have a way to force their way out, they don't unless needed though.
"You were just a child and it wasn´t your fault" is so important to hear 😭
As someone with DID I literally sobbed at that part.
Mr. Robot was much better
As someone without DID but other types of trauma I think. I'm sobbing right now at this part. I guess it's a sign of a good character and show/youtube show if they can explain it to this point for multiple people.
And it's his MOM'S fault. Leaving a child to watch a child and you know that they play in the woods and stuff?? WATCH YOUR CHILDREN
@@mss11235That show sucked on the first season. Should have never got renewed.
The fact that Issac wasn't just handed every possible award for this performance is a crime
Moooooood
There are certain fields and genres that the awards industry openly hates, and two of the largest are, sadly, horror and superheros.
As time goes on, more and more people are seeing how much of a pretentious echo chamber completely divorced from "the public" that cinematic awards circuits usually tend to be.
Yuuuuuuup
I mean, there are Brits who argue that his accent is a crime.
@@junjunjamore7735 They're idiots then, especially when you consider that he isn't playing a Brit so much as an American kid's stereotype of a Brit.
My cousin has DID. I've met several of her alters (she asked me to use that word) in her System. I especially enjoy spending time with the littles. When my cousin and her System watched Moonknight (each one watched it separately I watched with each of them, I love watching the differenting reactions), each one told me they never felt more understood
Ok. You re-watching shows with each alter is really cute and i love you for it!
@@dodonixx953 They all had a blast and I enjoyed the show and I made sure to space it out so I wasn't just rewatching the same episode over and over on repeat. She only has 5 alters not including herself
@@thepredatorgamer3989 you are the best and i hope you realize that.
You're a boss for that 💛
Hi, System here I have to say the fact their letting their littles come out and *BE* little around you should tell you how much they trust you, littles are usually well guarded not to mention rewatching this show with each alter treating them as different people and watching how they react is so beautiful. We need more people like you in this life
Hearing Steven tell Marc “You were just a child. It wasn’t your fault.” really hit hard and I think it was an important line for anyone dealing with childhood trauma. Especially for those who may never have heard those words out loud or had been triggered by what was shown earlier in the episode.
Yeah, to be honest there line kinda reminded me of that one scene from Good Will Hunting, where Robin Williams character finally breaks through to Will.
As a child abuse survivor that whole episode was really hard to watch but “it wasn’t your fault” is what really made me cry
As someone with D.I.D. Due to childhood trauma, this was a rough episode.
"You were just a child. It wasn't your fault." was such a powerful line. It is important to note though, even when someone knows it wasn't their fault, that doesn't mean that they won't feel incredible guilt because they were involved. Survivors guilt is a very real thing. Marc needed to be told it wasn't his fault, be he also needed to be told that his feelings of guilt are valid.
I cried hearing that.
My favourite part of the DID representation is that Marc specifically acknowledges that them being able to talk like that is explicitly unusual and implies that it’s a recent development.
Agreed.
It seems always a bit odd to me when they talk, as it simply does not work like that in any way I would know, no matter how great that would be, or lets all be honest, awful that would be.
I cannot tell you the amounts of time that I was happy the rest could not talk to me directly at all.
Though I can by now quite accurately tell what they would say, as makes sense when you live your life with someone, you know their ways.
I take it you are part of a DID system. If you don't mind me asking, how aware of each other are different identities in a system? If they can't talk to each other, how do they get to know each other? I'm assuming it varies case by case
That’s what I liked to. The merging between truth and fantasy DID. Alters are real, but his alters are even more real then usual. yet acts similar to how alters should interact with both the host and the real world
I like to think it's only a visual thing for the major audience to understand what is going on (also I think it's a power that the moon god guy gave them). Whenever I see them talking to one another like that I imagine they're actual conversation is taking place in the mind/headspace (and again the only reason they can see each other is because of whatever the bird did).
SPOILERS:
Another reason why I believe so is because of the later episodes where they eventually find out about each other's memories. They never knew each other existed until the bird man came around.
@@breezy3392 I'm not a system myself but I've been watching a channel called DissociaDID for a couple of days now. They are a DID system that makes content on TH-cam and they have a video talking about this thing called the "buddy system". Basically, one alter may want to send a message to a specific other alter but they are too far away, but there may be another alter closer to them so they talk to that alter who talks to another alter to get the message to the person they wanted to talk to originally. That receiving alter can then send a message back through the same channel or a different one, depending on the system. It apparently works like a game of telephone. They explain it better on their channel, you should definitely check them out if you are interested in learning more.
The mirror thing. The closest I've come to having a mirror situation as someone with DID was when I was looking in the mirror putting on my makeup getting ready to go to a party I didn't want to go to, and suddenly didn't recognize my face. I was having a depersonalization event and didn't really realize it until after it happened. My younger alter was coming into consciousness with me (co-con) and questioning "why does my face looks like that?" So, I heard her voice, but answered her with my own logic without fully understanding what was going on saying to myself -- "I guess I'm getting older. I guess this is what being 40 does to your face." And then the worst WORST bit of confusion I've ever felt came over me and I heard her again say something like "I'm 26. I'm not 40" Then derealization set in and I had no idea how old I was. I struggled to remember even turning 40 and had to pull myself away from the mirror entirely never probably finishing putting on my makeup, thinking holy shit I'm having a midlife crisis. haha The rest of the day was blank to me but I hear she drank and had a lot of fun. I don't tend to look in mirrors anymore because for some reason it's a trigger for the young one and she has body image issues. So yeah....the mirror thing . . .
I really want to take it upon myself to learn and understand about DID for a character I'm writing. My character actually doesn't have DID but is actually a woman who's possessed by an angel and they share equal control of the " vessel " although normally the human is the one steering simply because she's significantly more extroverted lol. BUT, I want to understand DID because if my character is ever caught switching by someone who doesn't know what they are, I want my character to lie and say they have DID but not write it like a joke but actually use the correct terminology. I'd like to use it as an opportunity to give a little education and also potentially show what kind of crap and ignorance systems face.
Fun fact, the angel character speaks with a British accent but she actually chooses to speak with an accent just so it's easier for people to know who's speaking. Their eyes would change colours depending who's talking and there's different body language as well. I'm writing these characters for a show I'm trying to write a pilot script for so I'm overthinking about every little detail about them and tips to give the actress who'd be playing them. Different accents, different speech patterns, different body language, different behaviors etc. Typically, both characters are completely aware of everything going on with the body, I like to think of them like conjoined twins or like two people have their limbs tied together and they move as one. But, the only time the human (the actual owner of the body) is unaware of what the angel is doing when the angel is I control is when the human is asleep. Angels don't sleep. Typically the angel just uses the night as time to do paperwork and research etc (they are detectives ).
I'd love to hear from systems about their thoughts and ideas and input. I'd love to hear if you have funny DID related stories, how people typically react to seeing a switch or learning about your system and what kind of negative responses you get (to give awareness).
Delainey, that is literally my worst nightmare ever. Hallucinating is one of my worst fears, and I had a mini version of it. scared the crap out of me. I hope that that moment in your life will not haunt you for the rest of your life.
@@Saitoshiba no, do not watch videos with DissociaDID. while they may get information right, they do not have DID. please research more about them ad what they've done.
@@shoe777 yeah. I used to watch and believe they had DID. After I made this comment, I did some research about it and realized that they were spreading misinformation and actually didn't have DID.
Honestly yeah.... The sudden feeling of that's not what I look like .... Or dressing totally different and talking in different ways and writing in different fonts... The moment you actually realise that shit what is happening
What I loved the most about this show, is how they validate every single alter.
The body died. And BOTH Mark and Stephen had a spirit and a chance at an afterlife. Stephen wasn't made up. Stephen is as real as Mark in every possible way.
I'm not a system, but I love that messaging so much
Same, hard same. I cried watching that episode. Good art realy can inspire a lot ot understanding and compassion!
"I'm Steven with a V!"
Might want to put a spoiler warning on this...
They died?! How?
Guys it was like the 4th episode. There were scenes from that episode in this video. And they talked about it in this video... like...
The plottwist was amazing. The whole time you think, that Stephen is the "original" and Mark is there for protect him, because Mark does all this crazy fightning stuff. So it was really suprising to see, that Stephen emerged to protect Mark. And he does that with his kidness, hope and positivity. And that is just a super beautiful message. Because you not just helping people on the physical side, you also can help and save people on a emotional side
There are many ways one can protect another. Having a "childlike" alter is not that uncomment and actualy makes a lot of sense.
It also is great at challenging the notion of what is real. People are oh so eaesely inclined to think of an alter as nothing but an act or hallucination, but it is a person often with very little destinction to the host. People that want to rid another of there alters just do not get how absurd and hurtful that can be to a system!
I’m sad that this twist didn’t work for me because I know the comics well enough
Marc created Steven so there'd be a version of himself with a happy childhood.
I wish I didn't know the comic version before the show so the twist could've gotten me, but I'm more of a DC person so when the Marvel movies add new characters that I don't know I like to look them up and maybe read some of the stories
♥️
I don't have D.I.D. but I relate HARD to Marc. My sister died and my mom blamed me. I ended up with PTSD instead. I think this is also good representation for mental health in general because while other heros clearly have mental health concerns...this show centers it. This is a superhero who openly has a mental health condition.
Absolutely as someone with cptsd and BPD cried so much at this show. Wishing you all love, one day at a time
Yeah, the last time we genuinely had a hero suffering with mental illness was probably Iron Man after the battle of New York (Iron Man 3). But then again he is Tony Stark, so he gets to play off a lot of it through jokes.
Yeah, you rarely see heroes with mental issues. I love it when you see them affected by traumatic events they were put through, whether it be saving NY or getting beaten by a parent. I have boatloads of trauma from issues relating to my father and school. And it's really nice to see someone on screen that struggles with similar things.
@@doomse150 that’s why I adore im3 more then most people too
Thank you for sharing 💖 agreed, it applies to PTSD/ CPTSD/ BPD & other dissociative disorders
Just sth I want to point out: Jonathan, I love that you say "not to my knowledge".
Your professionalism and credibility skyrocket everytime you admit that you a) don't know sth, b) have made a mistake or c) are aware that some things might not be discovered yet/could be different in the future. Props to you for using your rolemodel-status to point out that even experts aren't perfect.
Well also in psychology, there are people that do specialize in issues like DID and it's always good to keep in mind that just because you're an expert in one field (in Jono's case family and relationship therapy) doesn't mean you're an expert in all. Still, it's an amazing thing that Jono is so humble about not knowing everything.
What's sth mean?
He's a family and marriage counselor so that's his specialty. I'm a school based counselor, so that's MY speciality. Have I crossed paths with people with various disorders and walks of life and studied a variety of psychology to get my degrees? Of course! Am I master in all things mental health? Nope! I have knowledge in many areas of psychology but the "muscle" I use most frequently is my school based counselor muscle, so that muscle is the strongest. Even then, I still get cases that are very difficult to navigate and no person is the same, so even if I've dealt with 50 kids with anxiety, for example, for each kid the triggers and the manifestation of anxiety is completely different. It always makes me laugh when I see "experts" in a field claim to know everything. No one knows everything. Jono represents how I wish more "mainstream" "experts" presented themselves.
@@HouseMDaddict pretty sure it means "something"
@@ideasinthegord3915 oh okay that makes sense. Thank you!
Oscar's body double was his actual brother, Mike, which I think allowed for a much deeper connection to the emotional relationship between Marc and Steven. In a way, Marc and Steven are brothers inside the same body, so who better to play opposite you than your own brother.
Also, as an Egyptology nerd, the significance of the Duat manifesting as a psychiatric hospital is often overlooked. The appearance of the Duat changes to fit the soul passing through, but it's usually out of comfort, as a way to ease the soul into their afterlife after their heart is weighed. Marc has always had issues with his DID and his guilt and self-deprecation over the death of his brother and the life he's led ever since didn't allow the Duat to offer comfort, it offered the same judgement Marc's felt his entire life. The Duat didn't appear as a psychiatric hospital because Marc perceived it as one, it appeared as a psychiatric hospital because Marc truly believes he deserved to be locked away in one. He never thought he deserved the peace and rest he so desperately wanted, so when he got to Aaru (The Field of Reeds) without Steven, he realized he was missing a piece of himself. He finally recognized Steven as a part of him, a part of his soul, and went back to be with him, just like how Steven had always been with him, too.
That's actually adorable to know about his brother. That was either a very wholesome experience or an opportunity for brothers to mess with each other lol
As an Egyptology nerd myself I remember the cut to the psychiatric hospital and immediately thought "is this the boat?! Did the boat take the form of a hospital?!" then the creaking and rocking happened and I geeked out further. Good times...
aw i didn’t know that. reminds me of how i want to be an actor and my little brother wants to be a stunt double (because he heard they do all the fun stuff)
@@amandasnider2644 why not both?
Love how similar the Duat was presented in the show to Rick Riordan’s version of it in the Kane Chronicles where it was an elderly home I believe.
We are a DID system. This series made us cry multiple times because it felt like seeing ourselves on a screen for the first time. We weren't portrayed as a monster or crazy, we were the hero.
This is so sweet. I’m so happy for you all ❤
I'm glad
same :)
I'm so glad for y'all! It must have felt so powerful to be seen as a hero for once in media. ❤
I have a question the other alters they have “their own body” don’t they? Don’t they think of themselves are diffrent body’s and heights and races?
I'm glad you guys brought up Jake Lockley as the third personality, because he does serve a similar purpose for Mark, but in a different way. Jake acts a shield for Mark's guilt over the terrible things he's done, where as Steven is a shield for the terrible things being done to *Mark.* Both Jake and Steven are there to keep Mark from feeling the full force of his suffering.
Protectors / Persecutor alters are vilified so often, seeing their fairly positive thoughts on Jake was refreshing. He's actually my favorite from the more recent comic runs.
Marc. Marc's name is spelled with a "C" always has been since his first appearance in "Werewolf By Night" number 36. I noticed that you bolded it -- was that your way of correcting the spelling? If so.... that's not accurate. Marc Spector. Not Mark Spector. Sorry, dude.
@@RoseCentaur1916 oh my god.
This is rlly sad :(
Good observation, this explains it for me so well
The backstory episode was really hard for me. Watching someone's mother blame them for something that's not their fault, and that caused a mental disorder that they battle with into adulthood was waaaay too close to home.
Same. I found it very triggering especially when she started beating him with a belt. I was not OK after that episode.
Same. That episode was… just shattering.
Same
Yes same! I cry everytime! :( It hurts so much to see
Same I cried hard
As someone with D.I.D. I cannot tell you how therapeutic it was to see this portrayed as a disorder that stems from childhood trauma and not as an evil thing where every system has a murderer. We similarly lived with an abusive mother and a father who stood by in that abuse, and it was amazing to see a system portrayed this well. Thanks for the amazing review
DID system here: personally, we think that the portrayal of DID in Moon Knight was incredibly respectful. It sounds like everyone working on the show tried their hardest to avoid the stigma and stereotypes around the disorder, and we're so glad that the main character, who has DID, is the hero, not the monster.
I have been wanting to have one of my original characters have DID in a system where the alter does criminal acts to protect the core. Neither of them are evil, but just acting out of self defense for each other. I don't want to accidentally misuse DID so can you give me some pointers and things to avoid? I want to educate myself and my readers about it in a realistic way, even though it's for a comic series.
@@harmlesshorrors7229 Hi there. DID system here. Research has shown that DID systems and their alters rarely do criminal acts (and are way more often the victim). However, in my personal opinion, I am also a novelist myself and understand how using DID is such an interesting writing concept. I would suggest that you really drive home the point that the criminal acts are to protect the system. And have the alter who is doing the criminal acts be someone who is well-aware of the wrongness. Don't let them be one-dimensional and uncaring of how their actions affect others.
@@AWren-mh2zx That's the plan, Wren. I'm not wanting to villainize DID, especially since my (sort of) girlfriend is friends with a few systems. I was talking with her about it earlier today.
@@harmlesshorrors7229 The situation itself, having to commit a (some) crime(s), can be traumatic as well, specially if it involves violence, so there's that also? (Not a system, so I'm talking without ANY solid knowledge, but for me it seems relevant)
Genuinely curious. Do you ever play chess with yourself? I'm blind myself and people ask me all kinds of questions about how I cope.
The fact that when we are getting the backstory and Steven is wearing the black because he is in the dark and Mark is wearing the white because he is the vulnerable one, the innocent or victim, in that moment. So much though put behind it. The acting is phenomenal. The amount times I've cried during this show. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing.
I mainly thought it was so we could tell them apart. Y’know, color coding.
@@ravenartistofficial that too
I had always thought that costume choice strange and wondered why it wasn't swapped--that's the best explanation I've heard! Thanks!
Whoa!! I never thought of that! That makes it even deeper. Wow
"Steven. Look at me. You're not going to die. Let me save us."
Damn, that makes me cry every single time.
😢❤
Important to note: Jake emerged earlier than thought. As a child, Marc transitioned to Steven as a relief from his abusive mother. But Steven never remembered any actual beatings. This is initially why Jake emerged, to absorb brute force. Later, we see who we think is Marc perform killings in a truck. I challenge that this too was actually Jake. And while we see Jake's sarcophagus in the mental ward seemingly sealed, Jake is actually the person with the injured nose. The accent and attitude change, although we are lead to believe it is Marc. Jake emerged to give and take brute force and to do the work too dirty for the others. Jake actually played a much bigger role in the show.
I think that Konshu was the one who sealed away Jake, or at least kept him locked up as a sleeve ace.
@@chickadeestevenson5440 Neither Steve nor Marc know about Jake's existence, that's what Jake in the sarcophagus means. I don't necessarily think it's because of Khonshu, though; he does know and keeps it as a secret because it's convenient for him, but I believe it'd be hard for Khonshu to constantly keep Jake away from the rest. As Jake doesn't seek out fronting, unless it's actually needed, Steve and Marc had no opportunity to meet him. Steven didn't know about Marc as well and that doesn't mean Marc was hidden from him by Khonshu.
The whole point of DID (splitting into alters) is to keep bad memories and situations away from the host, so they can live a happy, normal life; in most cases, the host doesn't know they have DID in the first place, so it's natural they later not know about every other alter there is in the system.
IMO Jake stays sealed away because his memories are too painful for Marc and Steven to come to terms with. Marc is aware of him but consciously/subconsciously not talking about him or really accepting his presence. It doesn't mean that Jake doesn't come out when he's needed but that when Marc and Steven walked right past him, they chose not to invite him to join the conversation.
@@petiteflower5259 and they know someone else is there from episode 3 when neither of them killed all those people and they both blacked out, as well as episode 6 when they both blacked out again
Agree, Jake was there from the beginning. Who else asked that woman out to dinner in the first episode 😉. I doubt it would have been Marc.
I'm looking forward to seeing how they integrate Jake into season 2...hopefully not making him a villain.
“You were just a child, it wasn’t your fault” is something one of my alters has said to me and watching that scene absolutely broke me into a sobbing mess. I felt so happy to see this portrayed and it made me feel like the things that happen in my head were normal. Thank you both for being so respectful and wonderful, my entire system thanks you
I am so happy you felt represented by the show. It must be very difficult. I know I have depression and it is tough. I can’t imagine how much more difficult it is for you. I’m glad you seem to be doing well. I hope you have a good support system
I really want to take it upon myself to learn and understand about DID for a character I'm writing. My character actually doesn't have DID but is actually a woman who's possessed by an angel and they share equal control of the " vessel " although normally the human is the one steering simply because she's significantly more extroverted lol. BUT, I want to understand DID because if my character is ever caught switching by someone who doesn't know what they are, I want my character to lie and say they have DID but not write it like a joke but actually use the correct terminology. I'd like to use it as an opportunity to give a little education and also potentially show what kind of crap and ignorance systems face.
Fun fact, the angel character speaks with a British accent but she actually chooses to speak with an accent just so it's easier for people to know who's speaking. Their eyes would change colours depending who's talking and there's different body language as well. I'm writing these characters for a show I'm trying to write a pilot script for so I'm overthinking about every little detail about them and tips to give the actress who'd be playing them. Different accents, different speech patterns, different body language, different behaviors etc. Typically, both characters are completely aware of everything going on with the body, I like to think of them like conjoined twins or like two people have their limbs tied together and they move as one. But, the only time the human (the actual owner of the body) is unaware of what the angel is doing when the angel is I control is when the human is asleep. Angels don't sleep. Typically the angel just uses the night as time to do paperwork and research etc (they are detectives ).
I'd love to hear from systems about their thoughts and ideas and input. I'd love to hear if you have funny DID related stories, how people typically react to seeing a switch or learning about your system and what kind of negative responses you get (to give awareness).
That was God talking
@@BluEx22329 sure buddy
@@BluEx22329 I really hope that was just really misunderstood reassurance, and not you belittling systems
As a teen we always thought we were a freak and broken, but the first ever comic we got to personally own was Moon knight because our therapist gave it to us in hope that we would be more comfortable in our body, our new world. And it worked so well. When I heard moonknight was getting a tv series I was more than thrilled that, not only is a great story being told, but that we were being heard as real people and not monsters.
How are your head frens? Hope you guys are kind to eachother
Indeed. After all the bilge that has come out of Hollywood when it comes to any and all scientific matters in film, it is quite refreshing to see those Americans finally got something right and decent. We also had a bit of a personal connection to this series in that as a child, we were quite interested in Egyptian mythology.
Hopefully in the not so distant future, we can be open about us being an us with more people in person, as a multiple and in terms of all other multiples out there.
I love how the alternate personality is the protagonist of the show rather than having it be the original personality, or host, which is how it's usually potrayed in film and TV.
Fun fact: There is no "core personality" in a DID system. There's the host(s) - the alter or alters that come out most often and handle most of the daily life. But there's no "original" alter
Stephen is just as real and as much a person/personality as Marc (also Jake).
I know what you mean but there is no such thing as a core personality in DID. The alters don't get created due to splitting (pun intended), they just never integrate because of the immense trauma in early childhood, so that the amnesia walls can protect the person from something they wouldn't have survived otherwise.
@@catcolour444 Quite well put and honest Fun Fact.
The closest thing there is might be a "closest to original Personality" one, which could be where most people go from thinking there is such a thing, but it is simply not how it works.
For example, I am gonna number us 3 here for the sake of simplicity, number 1 might be the closest to the Kid we once were, yet that does not mean I or 3 are not that Kid. One could even argue we are more of it than he was going simply by development.
Simple thing said is, You are 100% right here.
Not one of us is the original, and we all are the original.
I believe the reason why they chose to frame Steven as the protagonist even though his memories are fiction, is because he is a much more grounded and relatable character than Marc.
Marc is a mercenary, an expert combatant, and a murderer. Most people do not share those life experiences.
Steven on the other hand is a bit of a bumbling klutz, he has a rocky relationship with his boss, he’s not smooth with the ladies, he loves is mum and is generally a huge nerd.
That’s way more in line with most average people’s life experience.
It’s actually brilliant writing to have you relate to and care about Steven, only to reveal that Steven and Marc are one and the same.
If you take Steven out of the show, Marc becomes a significantly less engaging character, as a lot of one note bad asses in film have been in the past. Knowing that Steven is a core part of who Marc is allows us to care about Marc, even if he isn’t nearly as characterized within the show.
One thing I found fascinating is that Marc, the hardened badass mercenary, is very emotionally fragile while Steven, the soft-spoken and nebbish fellow is very stabilising; the latter was meant as a protector, which is highlighted by his being named for an Indiana Jones-inspired action-adventure hero, and while he’s very meek and maybe naive he’s deeply compassionate and really does look after Marc when he sees just how tormented and broken he can be.
This :)
I always thought that it was interesting that Steven is the one stepping up and wanting the truth and finding his power in being honest and straight forward while Marc wants to hide behind a wall he built himself that even his own wife can't see through
@@InvaderHog It's a fantastic contrast and also explains why we start with Steven as our viewpoint character/protagonist; at the end it evens out, when they finally come together.
As for Jake Lockley, hopefully a future season abates the understandable concerns some have of him being the "evil" one.
I think it's really clear that Steven is the emotional protector of the system, whereas Marc/Jake are physical protectors - their roles are so clear but they're also allowed to exist as their own people.
It's as if he gives up his physicality so he can protect Marc emotionally. And then when they learn to love and communicate with each other with respect, Marc becomes stronger emotionally and Stephen becomes more tough physically. Yet they are still different people. It's really beautiful.
as a person who does not experience DID and has little knowledge on it, i want to say a huge thank you to those of you in the comments for sharing your stories. this show was hands down one of my favorite marvel series, and it helped me realize i had a lot of unconscious bias against systems due to movies like split, like assuming that alters fought for dominance to “steal” the body from the “original” and other nonsense. this video and your stories inspired me to open my mind up to the fact that i had no idea what i was truly believing, and to actually educate myself instead of relying on the few examples i’d been presented. i wish you all the best, and hope it gives some comfort that you’ve enlightened a lot of us
Same. While I have never seen Split I did watch stuff like Total Drama (season 4 and 5 had a DID character) and stuff that would make alters just evil or a joke.
But Moon Knight has helped me understand DID much better.
I completely agree, I'm glad that cinema is taking the right steps to keep teaching us about topics the correct and thoughtful way. I've started to learn about many things just because it was brought up in media. I truly enjoy learning about new topics especially from people who experience some of the topics we discus.
Thank you for this, it's so good to see people taking us seriously, and hey if you ever have any questions about life with DID I am always willing to talk about it!
Mr. Robot was better
Same bro
As someone with DID who's 7 years into being in therapy and taking meds, I can safely say that Moon Knight is literally the best media involving DID. And harmony is 100% the end goal. Finding common goals with my head mates for our life was the first step in truly healing. And since then? I've been doing so much better. Day by day, it gets better. It's truly amazing to finally see media that portrays DID in such a positive light.
I really want to take it upon myself to learn and understand about DID for a character I'm writing. My character actually doesn't have DID but is actually a woman who's possessed by an angel and they share equal control of the " vessel " although normally the human is the one steering simply because she's significantly more extroverted lol. BUT, I want to understand DID because if my character is ever caught switching by someone who doesn't know what they are, I want my character to lie and say they have DID but not write it like a joke but actually use the correct terminology. I'd like to use it as an opportunity to give a little education and also potentially show what kind of crap and ignorance systems face.
Fun fact, the angel character speaks with a British accent but she actually chooses to speak with an accent just so it's easier for people to know who's speaking. Their eyes would change colours depending who's talking and there's different body language as well. I'm writing these characters for a show I'm trying to write a pilot script for so I'm overthinking about every little detail about them and tips to give the actress who'd be playing them. Different accents, different speech patterns, different body language, different behaviors etc. Typically, both characters are completely aware of everything going on with the body, I like to think of them like conjoined twins or like two people have their limbs tied together and they move as one. But, the only time the human (the actual owner of the body) is unaware of what the angel is doing when the angel is I control is when the human is asleep. Angels don't sleep. Typically the angel just uses the night as time to do paperwork and research etc (they are detectives ).
I'd love to hear from systems about their thoughts and ideas and input. I'd love to hear if you have funny DID related stories, how people typically react to seeing a switch or learning about your system and what kind of negative responses you get (to give awareness).
Ok. I’ll admit. I’ve never thought of calling my system my “headmates”. I love it! Imma start calling them that. (They’re gonna hate it :3)
I am so happy you all have found the best methods for healing & to find harmony!!! Bless you. You’re incredibly strong. Sending love & light your way ❤❤❤
@@ambriaashley3383 whats your headmates' review about moon knight ? and do they reply on commentsections time to time ?
@@jacksonkabele737 oh heck yea!
I always love that Moon Knight shows that Steven and Marc love each other, and they don't shy away from it either. I'm so used to DID being seen as something where everyone in the system hates each other and wants nothing but to be rid of each other. Moon Knight shows the other side where there is so much care for the other people in your system and it is so real. I would do anything for my system and we love each other as deep as family, and I'm really glad moon knight was able to portray that love and care you can feel for the people around you.
That love extends from my husband too. There's about 36-40 of us and he cares about everyone deeply even if its in different ways such as treating the kiddos (child alters) as his biological kids
Yes I feel this way so much! This show helped us to accept each other, even the alters that seem the most difficult to accept. I also love how accepting and caring Layla is of both Marc and Steven. I wish there were more people in our life like her.
We're a bit scared to write this since we don't have DID, we're not traumagenic and we don't experience lost time (and for some reason some people are viciously hostile to people like us, claiming we're faking or roleplaying. as if they have any idea of what goes on in our head).
But maybe we can risk writing this, risk sharing how this movie touched us.
The love was palpable.
You know the scene with the field? I don't know why but it hit me so hard. It conveyed exactly what I need in an afterlife. Peace... an end to pointless suffering. If I were there I would want to stay there. I would like to stay there so much. Just leave this crap of a world behind. Yet, like Marc, I could not be happy there alone. I could not be happy there knowing that the most important person in my life is suffering or just missing.
You know the last scene with Marc and Steven? The one where Marc wakes up and asks Steven if he's there? And Steven just makes some sleepy noises? That was another scene that touched us personally because that's us every morning. :)
The scene that hit me the most is when Marc screamed "Shut up, SHUT UP!!" while destroying the mirror. Oscar Isaac's portrayal of the frustration of being controlled by some entity in your own brain was so accurate! I have severe OCD and I sometimes scream into a pillow or injure myself for my mind to just shut up. I have friends with DID who cried because they were so happy to see it represented like that. Some neurotypical people said he overacted, but in my mind he was absolutely spot on!
In case no one's mentioned it, HUGE props also have to go to Oscar's brother Mike - he worked as Oscar's body double, especially in the back half of the season, and he trained just as hard, if not harder, to make those scenes in the hospital and the barge work.
When I first saw Oscar Isaac in Ex Machina, I thought, "Wow, this guy is a really talented and captivating actor. I hope he gets a lot more big roles." Apparently the rest of the world felt the same way.
YEP!
It's interesting that most people associate his big break with Ex Machina. These other roles came out right around the same time but he was already well on his way after some pretty incredible performances in 'A Most Violent Year' and more importantly 'Inside LLewyn Davis' which was directed by the Coen Brothers. If you haven't seen that I'd seriously recommend checking it out.
I was SO ready to be disappointed in this because I thought "oh they made the violent one the alter AGAIN" but then we find out nope, Steven - sweet kind goofy Steven - was there to protect Marc and it just turned the whole thing around and made me love it. Even aggressive, destructive alters aren't "evil" and I LOVE that this series has started changing that viewpoint
I love symbolism of the scene where Mark throws his Kippot on the group & then embraces it. Jewish heritage traditionally comes through the mother. So him throwing it on the ground & then picking it back up shows the complicated feelings he has for his mother. As someone with a similar background, that scene rlly hit me
As a Jewish I went "oh shit" when he did it, i don't wanna say it's a sin but you not supposed to do it, and if a kippa fall to the ground you have to pick it up immediately and kiss it. So see him treat it so roughly did something to me.
Man, I never put two and two together even with having a Jewish background. I'm not a practicing Jew (I'm religiously a Christian), but I grew up celebrating some Jewish traditions and holidays because of my mom. There's so much truth in that confliction though.
My mom, who came out of a Jewish family, had an abusive father and I see it in how she talks about him. She doesn't talk about him with bitterness, it's more out of pity. She acknowledges the horrible shit that he did, but even when she acknowledges the abuse, she still holds on to the good memories with him.
I don't consider that man my "grandfather". The only good thing about him is that, without him, my mom and aunt wouldn't be here... But damn, seeing my mom talk about him like that is heart wrenching.
@@shani3604 I'm curious about how you feel about the Jewish rep in this show since I've seen some criticisms of how minimalized it was in the show.
@@godzelda123oh gosh ,good question because...I don't know how I feel about it.
On one hand I did like the fact that Marc is a Jewish super hero with a rabbi dad who run from the nazi hands, it what made me be interested in the first place, before the show even started, there's some comics when Marc talked about his beliefs in our God and face neo nazis and it hit hard, and I do kind of wish we could've had it.
On the other hand, there is Jewish people who live like Marc on the show (myself including) being a Jewish is only some part of us and it's surface only in weddings/ death (like the Shiva we see on the show)/ really big holidays etc. It's not on your daily life.
and if you look at Steven's apartment you can see that Marc have stuff to celebrate the Shabbat, including mezuzah (something we put on the side of every door), so it's there, not as much in the comics, but it's there.
So I'm not mad about it, but I'm not thrilled either, I do hope that if we get s2 we get more of it.
@@shani3604 as a Christian that scene was sad to see
Thank youuuuuuu!!! After being greatly triggered by episode 5 and not knowing why, I brought it to my therapist and we discussed it. She told me that she had suspicions of me having DID for about two years and I decided to get tested, and.... yes I do have DID. This show literally has saved my life and brought me so much clarity on my life and my alters. Moon Knight literally got me to realize I have DID! It's crazy! Thank you Cinema Therapy for covering this and thank you Moon Knight for saving me!
Wow! All the best…
Congratulations on finding out what you needed to!
That’s so cool
I'm so glad that it helped, there's so many things you can learn from movies! I hope all of you are happy now ☺️
That's wonderful that this piece of art was able to help you understand yourself better. Representation matters.
I was watching a video by DisassociaDID and they talked about how alters/identities can develop from fictional characters, but they become their own person the moment they develop because now they are experiencing things that the character didn't experience and I think Steven grant is an example of that.
Watch anybody but dissociaDID. They are a terrible person, give misinformation, has allegations of faking via an illuminati and sra book, their fiance was a pedophile, Nadia was a sexualized version of native American women, there so much more. But there are better alternative systems on TH-cam
I started watching DissociaDID after seeing this episode the first time and wanting to learn more about DID, their videos are fascinating
Which video specifically?
@@potterlover96 so did I!
Isn't DissociaDID a fake though?
I love how the alter is, as you said, portrayed as a real person just like the original personality. There's nothing creepy about either Steven or Marc. They're both adorably loving people in their own right.
There IS something creepy about the third guy, but he showed up to help Marc with the murder aspects of being a Mercenary, so I expect him to be creepy. I also don't know if Marc knows about him.
third guy just REALLY likes his old job
@@CassyBug i was going to say the exact same thing! By the time Jake Lockley rolls around, it's not "oh no, DID, so scary, so creepy", it's "Oh no, _Jake_ is scary". Not because he's an alter, but because he's a _stone cold mercenary._ At least that was my impression, as an audience member who doesn't experience DID.
@@CassyBug we also don’t know much about him tho. Remember that we though Marc was bad cuz we saw it from Steven’s limited POV. It’s the same for Jake. Even if he shows up to help up w/ the murder aspects, he only comes out when Marc/Steven are in extreme danger. It’s likely the guy is so violent since he frequently wakes up to find himself in high stress situations where they’re about to die.
@@CassyBug it seams like Jake would be a persecutor in this system. It’s hard to say as we haven’t seen much of him.
I had a classmate in psychology university who has DID. The way he described it amazed me. I never thought he was scary or crazy and needed a treatment. He never talked with himself unless I was okay with it. Most of the time his personalities just communicated in thoughts. Basically he described it as "approaching the same issue or problem from multiple points of view". It was his way of thinking. Each of his personality had a different way to view life and it made him feel complete and ready to tackle any issue or scenario.
That sounds...comforting, honestly. I know it's not all sunshine and roses, but that sounds like it makes problems easier sometimes.
But isn't that basically what _everyone_ does? Everyone has different facets to their personality. Everyone may feel mellow at one time or a cynical bastard in other circumstances. And a lot of people talk to themselves without having D.I.D.
that sounds oddly beneficial
@@TF2CrunchyFrog Thats kinda what DID is though. When that need to have facets of a personality are made into separate entities within the body instead of just aspects of a single person. A young child that's mind and personality are still growing gets thrown into such extreme trauma that they need to have these facets to their personality be separate from each other in order to handle and escape the trauma.
@@TF2CrunchyFrog It's a question of degrees and the level of dissociation going on. It's a tough condition to diagnose and describe, but it's definitely different than the usual "everyone talks to themselves sometimes" type of thing.
As someone with DID, I have to say I was… so worried about watching moon knight at first, cuz I’m so used to being the villain in the media, so used to being the evil one. But this show was so accurate, I can say I freaked out when they went into the bodies head, I’m pretty sure I screamed “THEY HAVE A HEADSPACE” because they literally never depict things like that, and it’s not their imagination. I’m so glad this was created so well by the team.
My father is a psychiatrist, I've hung out in his office and taken tours of his inpatient unit and he's shown me all the little things they do in the design to prevent people from being able to hurt themselves or others. I immeditely knew the Dr was not real when I saw that office, especially that pointy glass pyramid on his desk lol
thanks for sharing that. i couldn’t make up my mind whether he was real or not, although the giant Anubis statue on the desk was unsettling.
Great attention to detail, to whoever set up the office in the show, and good on your pa for showing you around!
When I saw that office, all I could think was there were so many potential weapons, there's no way it was real!
As someone who has spent years in therapy, I had the same reaction.
The office is also a bit too white. Too sharp, like a place made to impress/intimidate people. There is absolutely nothing comforting about the office. That alone told you that this supposed doctor is a hack lol.
"it wasn't your fault, you were just a child" - *this line broke me*
As someone who experienced childhood trauma, this is one of the most powerful things someone can say to you. His performance in that scene is so amazing.
I think this is the best superhero series out there 🔥hot take🔥 Oscar Isaac was so amazing in this show. I can't wait for season 2. I'm so thrilled you guys made an exception to review this series!!!
Same. This line hit so close to home. A lot of my trauma stems from being made to feel like it was my fault and I deserved it. This show is my favourite series period. I can't even describe how much I love it. It has helped me come to terms with my own trauma and DID.
Same.
No because really it hit home SOOO hard and this entire episode managed to give me the worst panic attack of my life but it was so worth it and I needed to hear and see it they really did such an amazing job on this
Having had an abusive mother myself that scene was one of the hardest for me to watch but yes it’s never a child’s fault
I'm extremely close to a DID system. We lived together for a while and I remember the first time when one personality was emotionally overwhelmed (the "original") and so another emerged. It was my first time witnessing an emergence vs coming home to a different personality from whom was present that morning. The feeling of energetic change was profound and the physical transformation was exactly what Moon Light showed with adult Marce switching to Steven outside of the funeral.
As an outsider of DID, I appreciated this series and the compassion they give.
As a system I can say that it's not only more common to stay in one state/person/mode for days, but also that you can stay in that one for years or be in that one 90% of the time for decades.
Also, finding out Stephan was the protector was a huge and beautiful twist. I FELT this scene so hard, because my own experience was a LOT like Stephan's. I thought I remembered everything and was the "real" or "main" one, but I'm the host who was born to handle life as if everything was fine and normal.
And our gatekeeper had to take me aside when I was digging too much into trauma memories (after learning we were a system and I didn't have all the memories after all) to make it clear I wasn't supposed to remember everything, because that wasn't my job and the trauma would make me incapable of doing my job right.
Making the audience attached to Stephan as the "real" one and then turning this around also did SO MUCH to help my husband (a singlet) understand what it's like and how we're all "real" or equally valid. I hope to have the same moment with a couple friends next, because they still treat me as somehow more real or original than any of the others.
THANK YOU for thanking them, YES! It means so much to have an movie that helps to educate and accurately represent! At long last we have something we can point people to who don't understand and don't wanna ready psychology studies or theories to get some understanding.
How do you cope with not being allowed to know everything about your history? I have a memory that I can't really think about without disassociating though I'm not a system so even if I didn't know the exact details until I "lived through it" again with my therapist, I've always known the gist of it and what event the memory is from(it's a suicide attempt fyi). Just like your system's gatekeeper, part of my brain thinks it's better for the rest of me to not remember but I'd die of curiosity if I wasn't able to know what it was about. Is it easier to trust that you're better off not knowing because you trust the judgement of the gatekeeper?
@@char1211 i am going through something similar i had an abusive childhood and 3-4 yrs of my memories are missing i know that because i literally remember every single detail before it and at first i was frustrated about it and then eventually i was like i don't know and i could not do anything about it so i just distract myself from these thoughts because i am already traumatised and if my brain decides that it is not good for me to know so i should just leave it be i just don't wanna get anymore trauma
What does "our gatekeeper had to take me aside" look like? The therapists said two personalities talking to each other in a "system" is more movie language, and not what it really looks like, but you're making it sound like that's what happened. Did you hear someone? See someone?
@@manupaints1869 I'm sorry you had to go through that! But yeah, I think I get it. When I wrote my comment, I didn't really keep in mind that exploring traumatic memories feels different depending on the situation. For me, most of my trauma isn't severe* enough to make remembering the idea of it painful so recognizing that it happened usually just feels rewarding. Like, [x] happened so now I don't feel silly that [y] makes me anxious. Some memories are so shitty it feels like any reward is negated I suppose.
*Severity is not the same thing as importance people, all trauma is a big deal and everyone deserves help. Your cut will still need stitches even if someone else got stabbed.
@@char1211 no because i have heard about somethings about the incidents that i don't know and they are so horrible so terrible that after hearing about them i am grateful that i don't remember because if i did i would have took my life although i tried but if i remembered those incidents i would not be able to survive
I didn't think I knew anyone with DID until I started talking about how great this video was and how people with DID deserve better representation. Turns out a family member has been recently diagnosed with DID and was having a hard time figuring out how to tell me about it. I'm kinda floored by the coincidence. Thanks for helping us start the conversation!
@@viivoid thanks for the advice and support! Definitely will follow it. We are good friends on top of being family and we're going to start family therapy in the new year to help us navigate any challenges we might face in our relationship (they have their own therapist for the DID, this is in addition to that). I want to be as accepting and supportive as possible. I'm also trying to educate myself on it. Waiting for their therapist to send me a book list right now.
Omg I'd love to hear the book list if you ever get around to reading this and don't mind sharing ofc. As someone w severe childhood trauma, books about folks with mental illnesses and/or the relationships had with them is so enlightening and comforting. For anyone else interested I'm currently reading "Tastes Like War" by Grace M. Cho. Its is part autobiography, larger part memoir/investigation about Grace's mother who has schizophrenia. I'm only 2 chapters in atm and it's very interesting.
@@DemiYourGoddess That sounds like a fascinating book! Unfortunately we haven't had any biographies so far. My family member is currently reading "Healing the Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors" by Janina Fisher (recommended by their therapist). We are planning to both start "The Narcissism Recovery Journal" by Cynthia Eddings and work through it at the same time. I don't know if you will find these helpful since they were recommended to us based on our set of circumstances, but if you or anyone you know has experienced childhood trauma from caregivers who displaying narcissistic and sociopathic behavior, it is super helpful.
Also, a quick shout of encouragement to the void since it's been 7 months since my first comment and a lot has happened - I was really scared of the diagnosis at first, but I soon realized that my family member is the same person(s) I have always known and that they will be able to live a full and amazing life, they just need some extra support. They found a great therapist and I'm really proud of them right now for a recent breakthrough that they just told me about. Good vibes to all DID systems out there, y'all rock and I think you're some of the coolest people I've ever met.
I don't have DID but my brain blocked out a lot of harmful memories for a long time until a therapist was able to help me re-open memories from that time in my life. I was an absolute mess for a while realizing all the stuff I'd forgotten and dealing with that pain, and around that same time this show came out. That scene where steven is looking through the house seeing the reality of his life while mark tries to stop him had me absolutely sobbing.
I also don't have DID, but my therapist and I have unlocked some hardcore trauma memories that I had blocked out, and it's been real rough. Sending you love ❤
My friend sent this video our way and as a system we both sat down to watch the whole series and finish this video and I am so so thankful that they portrayed DID in such a kind and compassionate way.
As someone who was a system and got backlash from others who I thought were close to me when Split came out, this was such a refreshing show and video to watch. I thank you guys for mentioning that integration does not have to be the end goal. Especially if it is rushed or forced, in my case it was EXTREMELY traumatic. It resolved nothing as I am 99% we weren't ready. That trauma was never resolved, and of course everything got chaotic again and a new alter stepped in.
Ironic enough, she and I were very much like Marc and Steven. I found her mildly annoying over small differences, but she has helped me through so much and I love her to pieces. I would not be where I am without her.
it really sucks that people you were close to gave you backlash because of split. I hope you're doing better now
@@aspenture1087 yeah really, who the hell lets a movie change the way you view your friends??
@Artorias Pendragon (badass name by the way!) I am so sorry you went through that. Also, thank you so much for sharing.
Thank you for the perspective
Saaaame. We have a rule in our system that no fusion is forced and must be voluntary between both headmates. Some of us want to fuse and some of us don't. A permanent fusion between two headmates for us is seen as a kind of platonic internal emotional intimacy for us almost like a platonic marriage. Sometimes we have temporary fusions that are brief like a harmonious co-front but it isn't as extreme as like permanently becoming one with another headmate.
As a system, this video... we appreciate this video a lot. Thank you for doing this!
First off: 'They deserve compassion. Not fear and judgement'. Thank you. Really. Whenever a reviewer or a piece of media tackles DID/OSDD1, That is the biggest message we worry they'll miss. There's so much hate and stigma regarding this disorder, and people believe it, and some of those people set out to cause more harm to systems, or they're professionals who have genuine power over the futures of those with the disorder... And honestly, we've all suffered enough. We have alters- mostly little ones- that just cannot comprehend why someone would be scared of us. No alter is evil; but a lot of them are very hurt.
We were super hoping you'd do this episode, and oh gosh you covered it really well. 'Moon Knight' is something so close to our heart as a System; we've heard others say similar in that it's one of the only times they've ever felt 'seen' by the media (for us, it was this and the interrogation scene with Crazy Jane in ep.2 of 'Doom Patrol'). You're absoloutely correct in that Oscar Issac is... utterly incredible in this, and you can tell he did his research (a favourite of ours- as an English system with a couple of off-American-accented alters) is Steven's accent is, if I remember correctly, purposefully wrong; because the body's not English, so why would it suddenly know a perfect English accent? Such great details. The other big one is one we hoped would happen: over time, as they begin to intergrate (which- 'fusion' is the generally accepted word for alters becoming one; intergration is just breaking down walls and communication, etc) with eachother, their switching becomes less intense and quite easy; it's a thing we and other systems have personally experienced, and it single-handedly proved to us they'd done their research.
Notes watching the video:
• Talking to eachother in a mirror IS something you can do, but- at least for us- it's more of a focuser so you can hone in on communication (feelings, psychoverbally, sometimes yelling 'you idiot' at eachother verbally, etc. /hj). We definitely- unless there's something comorbid- don't see them move in a mirror or anything though; just sometimes a feeling like it's not You looking back at you, which can be discomforting even when you're used to it (it's in the eyes I find; they never feel like My eyes).
• Episode 5 broke us. Having witnessed so many little ones in our own system who are traumatized, who witnessed our childhood, vs the ones who front all happy and don't really know what went on because they weren't Meant to... that scene in the bedroom, that hit hard; that was incredibly real, and something we actually have to give a trigger warning to when recommending it to other systems, that's how on-point it was. The response freak-out from Steven- who, an aside, we appreciate So Much is an Introject (an alter that takes their basis personality to some degree from a pre-existing person/character/object), which are also stigmatized heavily even within the DID/OSDD1 community- felt so Familiar also; it can be hard for alters who aren't educated in the matter to come to terms with not 'being the original'*- heck, our own host upon finding out he was multiple freaked out quite similarly and mentally disappeared for a week.
The switch at the end of Ep. 5 was really amusing though, because yeah for some of us, you can be going through a huge breakdown and then- suddenly quite happy. Someone else is mentally having a breakdown, but front's like 'on with the day! :)'. We felt bad laughing at it, but... some moments in this series are a comedy when you live like this on a daily.
*it feels important to note: it's generally accepted that there isn't actually an 'Original'. The currently accepted theory of structural dissociation suggests we actually All start in a fractured form, but systems fail to fuse and integrate at a young age due to trauma barriers.
• 'The self is a collective'. Yes yes yes! Even systems struggle to come to terms with this: self-love in a system is loving eachother. 'It's a love story between members of a system' is the best description of this series I've heard, and it's not one I thought singlets would really get? We often feel this series was a Whole Different Relatable Watch to a lot of systems than it was to those without.
• The scene in the beginning of Episode 6, to this day, will make most of us cry. 'I survived because I knew I wasn't alone' will take so long for any piece of DID media to top, in our opinion. It's... That whole speech hurt, in a really good place. A lot of systems didn't actually like 'you're the only real superpower', but we thought it was a fun tongue-in-cheek personally. It isn't a superpower, no, but it sometimes has its silver-linings amongst the utter hell it can be to live with CPTSD, Dissociation, Amnesia, etc. But that scene... damn that scene. We're one of those systems that said 'I've never felt so seen'.
• Rapid switching does happen. Not too often, but it... happens, and it sucks. Headaches galore for us, and a lot of lack of personality. I feel like people think it's super rare, but most of the time it's a switch went to hell and back, a trigger issue, or too many alters trying to front at the same time. There's this important on stating this stuff, because those who dislike DID, or those who are less in the know, will latch onto it and spread that information around.
• I kind of wish you'd covered the earlier episode where Steven acts like he can audibly hear Marc. It was a part that bugged us, because generally that's not a symptom of DID (without co-morbidities that might cause it) as far as we're aware, and it perpetuated the stigma that it's 'outside voices' which unfortunately leads to people conflating- more than usual- Schizospectrum disorders and DID/OSDD1.
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comment came out a bit longer than expected, ha- but really though: incredible series, absolutely fantastic review. Thank you for making this and getting it out there; it's so important that a channel with so many followers reports on it in a non-harmful way, and we've definitely left this video feeling seen!
Thank you for these in-depth explanations, I love to hear your perspectives and learn more!
This was a long comment, but very helpful and informational! Thank you for all of the details and thoughts. 💜
I was actually first diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenic disorder because of me hearing voices, but those voices don´t come from outside but from within, from my alters.....so not a hallucination. I was very relieved when I found a psychiatrist who had a bit more knowledge and common sense. They drugged me silly at first with heavy anti-psychotics and it was awful. I think they just showed it in the scene coming from outside, like a auditory hallucination bacuse of cinematic reasons....but it ws meant to come from inside.
As a DID system, I relate so much to this feeling of looking in the mirror and feeling like it's not you looking back at you. This is so disturbing and I never heard another system talk about that so thank you!
@@anaiswinter9893 You're not the first we've heard of that happening to; people often think these misinformations only end up with non-professionals, but it's wild how misdiagnosed some disorders are due to having the wrong information. I'm glad to hear you got it sorted!
I also saw the moment between Marc and Steven as my adult self reparenting and talking to my inner child with our abandonment trauma. “You were always there, full of hope… You didn’t abandon me and there’s no way in hell I’m ever going to abandon you”.
As a system we want to say, “thank you”. This breakdown of Moon Knight was amazing. Not gonna lie, cried from joy a few times…just because it’s rare to feel seen. Just thank you. Oh and our experience with rapid switching…when there is a lot of stress rapid back and forth switching can happen.
Thanks for sharing and for watching! :)
As someone who suffered terrible psychological abuse at the hands of my mother, I can empathize greatly with Marc. The intense pain and self hatred that is a consequence of that kind of abuse is profound. Oscar Issac does such a beautiful job showing the audience that pain. Losing his mother is kind of a double loss, because not only did he lose his abusive mother, but he also lost the opportunity to have the loving mother he always wanted. I think that's why he's so devastated.
Yes, grieving is especially hard and complicated with an abusive parent, despite what most people would think. You've put it well.
@Johanna Verplank - I agree with your assessment. When I feel badly about my long-dead parents, I have come to realize that the mourning I feel is not really about them, but for the joyous childhood that was denied to me.
@@nothingruler14All yessss, when TLOUS 2 dropped I was in a terrible place with my father and the game hit thrice as hard because of that
Especially hurtful cuz it's not like the Mom was just a dick, she was deeply ill and clearly was never able to recover.
Which must make her death even more complicated and conflicting.
Cuz What IF, what if she had been able to recover, maybe she need just another year.
Yes! Well put. When my "parents" finally die, I will be devastated...not because of their death (as so many will assume), instead because the loving parents I should have had will be permanently denied to me. (not that that will ever happen...though as long as they live, the chance is always (slimly) there)
I just realised what might have caused the "How did Steve not know about the abuse" plothole, where Steven had fronted just moments earlier before Wendy came into their room. It might be because Jake might have also been created at the same moment.
Marc only said "You were not supposed to know that" and the first thing Steven did after being created was started to clean the surroundings. Maybe Steven was not created to hide from Wendy, but to appease her. Many have pointed out Steven had similar interests to Layla because Marc may have wanted to have something in common with her wife. A 9-10 year old Marc would not want to just hide from her mother, because not only was he scared of her, but he also remembered what she was like before Randall died and he also blamed himself.
Marc probably wanted nothing more than saving their relationship, thus creating Steven for being a 'good son' to Wendy. However, since Steven was supposed to life in a rainbow world,the moment Wendy picked up the belt would break the illusion and Marc/Jake probably fronted again to let Steven remain in peace.
Fun fact- Oscar’s brother came in as his double a lot for over-shoulder shots! Also, whenever they’re in the hospital and has the nose injury, that’s actually Jake. His accent is slightly different and you can tell if you’re looking for it!
I love that Oscar's brother reviews toys on TH-cam, so Hasbro sent him review samples of the Moon Knight and Mr. Knight figures.
@@Perradocx what's his name on TH-cam I'm going to have to look that up
@@geckokid8265 His name is Mike Hernandez, and his channel is The Figure Report.
@@Perradocx thank you very much
That's so interesting! I've seen a lot of articles about actual brothers and sisters being the doubles for actors, but they never mentioned Oscar Isaac and his brother (maybe because the series is still new)
The scene of Steven's surfacing and witnessing his mother's abuse actually triggered me. I had to turn away, I could not take it. As someone who's lived in a similar experience, it hit me so deeply.
That doesn't mean it's bad, I just appreciate the realism of it without being so explicit. We didn't have to see the actual violence, the clear implication is enough.
This is immediately one of my fave episodes, I will always look back on this for inspiration for when I write.
One of us, I numbered us before for ease of use sake down here so we shall keep that up, number 3 specifically veto'd the show effectively for us.
Exactly because of fear of such a scene. We did watch part of it later on but he remains strongly viewed on the fact that he does not desire to watch something even close to our past re-unfold.
So, reading this, it does seem like he made a good call for his own sake.
Regardless of entertainment value, I would not want him to suffer through something, or much worse, cause whatever he fears in myself, like memories suppressed of some kind.
also triggered thumbs up emoji
@@padascos Absolutely.
I am not part of a system. I did cope with my trauma by writing about different personas or having sisters that kept me safe. Obviously, I shouldn't envy having a mental disorder. But at the very least, I can say I'm glad those with DID are able to find harmony and be there for one another with their systems.
@@victoriabg373 Do not worry about admiration. It is nice to see there is such a vested interest by others. Though I appreciate the restraint much more, given at the end of the day it is nothing caused by great adventure or event, but tragedy.
Alas, I like the idea of connecting with the fantasy of having a big sister or brother to back one self up in dire times. It is effectively how we hide each other in communities where we do not want to mention our DID but need to find an answer to our ways, so, we refer to one another as Brothers.
While a hiding action, we also appreciate it as it is. We are effectively brothers. Just because we share a body does not change that we are different.
I hope, and guess if I dare, that you are or will do better soon and get to cope with whatever struck you in your lifetime.
Time is the only judge we have, and those who dare to give it time to tell shall find peace of mind in due time and other fellow minded souls.
That was really powerful, just witnessing the look on Steven's face as it was unfolding and how badly he wanted to step in but couldn't.
as a system seeing young marc not only create a alter but one that was also a fictive was really something special to see done through cinema. moonknight helped us come to terms with our own plurality due to how respectful it was about it.
I'd advice against using the term plurality if you want to be taken seriously
@@shamalow1819maybe don't tell a system how to refer to themselves. Why do so many non systems talk about that term like it's terrible anyway? Was it invented by a Nazi or something? That's what it usually is lol
15:17 what i love about this scene is that it's a subtle nod to steven's psychology. steven believes that he talks to his mother daily, even though we only see him talk to a voicemail. steven was 'born' out of marc's desire to have a healthy, loving relationship with his mum, and he is still immersed in that illusion even though he hasn't talked to his mother in an unknown time, he thinks that they're still talking
And here I was thinking Marc just paid some random woman to pretend to be Steven's mother to keep the illusion going
The part where he says to himself " you were just a child. It wasn't your fault" that kills me
God, that kills me too.
Same here. Marc needed to hear that his entire life
So many people with childhood trauma need to hear that.
With "he to himself" do you mean the actor or the character?
brings me to tears every time.. its the conversation i need to have with myself
As a person with severe ,anxiety, OCD and DID this show made me cry. It's so, so accurate. Oscar Isaac is a treasure.
I have a question, do the alters of people with D.i.d experience ocd ?
We cried when he said, "you are the only super power I ever had."
Thank you so much for covering this!
As a part of a system, the idea of watching Moon Knight fills me with so much anxiety. Partly because I don't want to see another terrible, twisted interpretation of DID like in Split... but also because I'm terrified of it being too relatable and too spot on, and how uncomfortable that would be to see a bit of ourselves in Steven and Mark. Seeing this video makes me want to try to watch it, just to see what happens though. It gives me faith at least that it won't be like Split.
heeeeeey! took the words right out of our mouth, the hive of anxiety (and excitement) around this show has been nearly impossible to describe. thanks for the concise wrap on why I haven't touched it yet, despite being medium hyped up since it was announced.
Not trying to catch any extra pain from another terrible, monster-style representation, I so dearly just want to see it be "right" or even just "okay" to see, just once. but also, we're all desperately afraid of the real emotions on the table, confronting them in someone else's story. If they get it "right," it means someone's having the misery of their life, I don't want THAT. -I- want to enjoy this media, but we know we're not ...ready yet?
I really want to take it upon myself to learn and understand about DID for a character I'm writing. My character actually doesn't have DID but is actually a woman who's possessed by an angel and they share equal control of the " vessel " although normally the human is the one steering simply because she's significantly more extroverted lol. BUT, I want to understand DID because if my character is ever caught switching by someone who doesn't know what they are, I want my character to lie and say they have DID but not write it like a joke but actually use the correct terminology. I'd like to use it as an opportunity to give a little education and also potentially show what kind of crap and ignorance systems face.
Fun fact, the angel character speaks with a British accent but she actually chooses to speak with an accent just so it's easier for people to know who's speaking. Their eyes would change colours depending who's talking and there's different body language as well. I'm writing these characters for a show I'm trying to write a pilot script for so I'm overthinking about every little detail about them and tips to give the actress who'd be playing them. Different accents, different speech patterns, different body language, different behaviors etc. Typically, both characters are completely aware of everything going on with the body, I like to think of them like conjoined twins or like two people have their limbs tied together and they move as one. But, the only time the human (the actual owner of the body) is unaware of what the angel is doing when the angel is I control is when the human is asleep. Angels don't sleep. Typically the angel just uses the night as time to do paperwork and research etc (they are detectives ).
I'd love to hear from systems about their thoughts and ideas and input. I'd love to hear if you have funny DID related stories, how people typically react to seeing a switch or learning about your system and what kind of negative responses you get (to give awareness).
As someone with DID (diagnosed ~3 years ago) I cried through all six hours. It was really raw, and by the end a part of me kind of felt like I'd been scraped open for the whole world to see. It made me do a lot of introspection. It also triggered me a lot though, so I would say DON'T binge it, do take breaks.
As a system, we had the same reservations and took quite a while to finally watch, but we loved it. Can’t say I personally cried or got too triggered since big emotions aren’t really my MO, but it’s definitely an emotional show and would affect a lot of people more than it did me. Oscar’s acting is incredible, and it’s hard not to connect with the vulnerable moments the Moon Knight system has.
I think it’s wise to take it in smaller chunks if your emotions are more easily influenced by media you connect to. But I do think it’s worth watching and generally does a really good job with representation (outside of the parts they had to dramatize or represent in new ways for it to work on film and make more sense to singlet viewers-but you can’t really hold that against them because it’s necessary).
Hey! Sorry to bother you, but did you watch it yet? 💛
There's at least one more personality we haven't specifically met, too. There's things that happen that neither Marc nor Stephen recognizes. There are these short blips that are neither of them.
I need more of this show.
its jake lockley
i got the sense that the whole reason why steven had no memories of his mom's abuse, why he believed he had a happy childhood, was that... when marc was faced with his mother's abuse, he would slip into steven because steven was brave. but steven also existed to live a normal childhood, so when the abuse was actually happening, _steven would slip into jake._ and the whole time it was actually jake bearing the brunt of the trauma and that's how jake became this completely unfeeling murderous psychopath.
Which seems like a far to close to home experience for this kind of deal.
Almost too reasonable and possible to not be common. Maybe it is.
I can only attest to the fact that one alter, in our case, was burdened with knowledge of it all, and the interaction with it, which certainly messed him up.
He is better now, should you be wondering. We are working on it best we can.
@@padascos I wish him the best
It is a common theory going around that Jake was indeed the one taking on the abuse, even though - as far as I am aware - it has not been confirmed by the show-runners or Marvel Studios... But it would make the most sense, since Steve does not remember and Marc is the one "slipping out"
It reminds me of the sibling dynamic, where the (usually older) sibling takes the brunt of the abuse and shields the other sibling(s)
Or maybe "Stephen Grant has no fear" or specifically no fear of their mother. Stephen may have manifested a delusion that his mother wasn't someone to fear, and no matter what she did to him, he couldn't develop that fear. The trauma was still real though and in order to repress his mother's abuse Jake compartmentalized it. Jake became so broken from knowing only trauma and being deprived of joy that he developed psychopathy.
It's multiple layers of psychology: a DID system, but each personality can have another mental disorder.
At 8:34, a lot of us fans have speculated that that's not actually Marc, but the system's 3rd alter, Jake. 1. His accent is quite unique from both marc and steven 2. Jake in the comics is a boxer and is often portrayed with a bandage over his nose 3. Jake is quick(er) to take action to try and remove the system from danger (AKA ned flanders)
I’m pretty sure it’s been confirmed to not be jake though. That and Marc explicitly remembers the events when “Jake” appeared, which isn’t what he normally does
@@ma.2089 I don't think it's Jake the whole time, I think it's him when he shoots up & grabs the paper weight(?) to start stabbing. He speaks a little differently & it feels a touch more violent than Mark would be, though I'm not sure why I think the latter lol I haven't looked into it, that's just my thought
yeah but at that moment Jake WAS still locked up in his sarcopagus. The red one.
@@chickadeestevenson5440 the one Marc didn't open? I thought that contained his mother, kinda looked like her... Doesn't really make sense that she'd be in a sarcophagus though, does it, though she _is_ dead... Maybe there's a fourth, female alter? (I have no idea about the comics, but Marvel has a history of deviating from the comics, cf. Mandarin)
@@cooki3monstrrr yeah, that's exactly how I saw that scene
5:45 It really varies system to system. This scene to us looked a lot more like coconciousness than rapid switching (essentially one person is driving and the other is in the passenger's seat, as opposed to two people yanking the wheel back and forth.), and it's actually pretty common.
For us, we almost always have multiple people in front, either blended together, sharing different aspects of control, or sort of with one person "driving" and a couple others in the passenger seat. Conversations like this are very much possible for us and are a regular part of day to day life, although there aren't any mirrors involved and usually the conversation occurs entirely in our head. (Sometimes we do write it out in a notebook though. Helps sort through who's who when there are a *lot* of us in front.)
Rapid switching, on the other hand, also happens, but tends to make it fairly hard to communicate. In our experience and from what we've heard, it tends to be very disorientating and make everyone involved feel like a blurry mess.
Different systems also have different definitions of what "rapid switching" is for them. For us, multiple switches a day is pretty normal, and tends not to cause too much distress. Back in high school we'd typically switch almost every class, as different system members have different subject preferences and skillsets. (Ex: Sam is the best at math. Our memory barriers are low enough that we can all usually remember the information equally, but the way Sam processes things make actually doing math problems easier for him than most other system members.)
Also, on the accents thing, which was mentioned later, a lot of us have different accents than the body in the headspace, but we... can't actually do them while fronting. The brain knows how an Australian accent sounds, but not how to convincingly replicate one, plus the body doesn't have the necessary muscle memory. Unfortunately for me, this means that if I attempt to replicate my inner world accent, I usually somehow end up sounding like I'm doing a really bad irish accent.
-Mina and Pearl
Yeah it seemed like co consciousness to me
Fun fact, in a lot of scenes, the body double is oscar issacs brother! so he was doing those performances opposite someone he loved deeply the way steven and marc would have loved each other. i think that is part of what made it so powerful. In a lot of ways Steven and Marc are brothers, so Oscar getting to have those moments with his own brother must have been really emotional.
We must protect Stevie at all cost.
He's the best boy 😭😭
It's Steven.
@@Ironlantern723 with a V! 😂
@@oinkykviko177 float like a butterfly
sting like a bee
my name is
Steven wif a v!
I thought his name was Brian.
Moon Knight has influenced my system so so so much! The amount that we've related to it and have strived to improve because of it is notable. It's really touching to see such a beautiful portrayal of such a misunderstood disorder. My experience with system discovery was very much like Steven's, in that I thought I was the "original" for a long time, only to realize I've actually only existed as a consciousness for 3 or 4 years. Being the current host of your system like Steven and I, and the host that figures it out for that matter, can cause you to want to 'defend your title' in a way. You see yourself as the "real one" or the "core identity" that everyone else split off of (there's about 8 of us total), only to realize that the actual person/people (it's usually more than one,) that've been around the longest are chilling somewhere in headspace.
When I met one of those type of people for my system, they tried to get rid of me. So, already off to an amazing start.
They, and I quote, "Wanted the body back so that they could be normal again." whatever that meant. And as bogus and Hollywood as it sounds, it's a genuine thing that a ton of systems go through. We all want to be "normal" like everyone else, whatever normal means. So, when I, the current host, spoke to our primary protector, one of the first alters to form, she wanted me out so that she could live her life. I obviously fought her, and we fought for over a year. But it wasn't until recently that we had our little Steven and Marc moment. We had to work together to get through the bad parts of having DID and I went through some really horrible things. Bad enough to cause another alter to emerge fully. Someone who is very dear to me, very much like a brother.
Anyways, me and my primary protector had our moment where she realized her trying to get rid of me was hurting the system (which is the opposite of her job btw,) and she apologized for what she did. Now she's like my cool wine aunt who sneaks me out of school to go shopping or whatever cool wine aunts do. We love each other and it's awesome. We are far from perfect though and there are still things we need to work on and other relationships to heal, but with this, we've come a bit closer and now we can all fight like badasses :))
First, thanks for sharing so intimate experiencie. I would like to ask if its ok for you, how all the interaction/communication between the members of the system works? Thanks a lot!!
@@lajenbajen_ I’d love to answer that! So we as a system have very thick amnesia walls. Thick enough that the way we found out we were a system was when our little fronted for the first time in years.
We’ve noticed it’s harder for some people to communicate with each other than others so we’ve assumed it’s because we have subsystems. Subsystems are basically just alters that are separate from others. Kinda like cliques in school where everyone goes to the same school but we just have people it’s easier to talk to. it doesn’t have to do with how well we get along tho, it mainly occurs because of how the brain compartmentalizes certain alters by role.
so, for example, my caretaker/ primary protector, my emotional protector, and our little are all in a subsystem with me. We all work in tandem to be able to live our life as one unit so we all are able to talk to each other much easier than people in the other subsystem, which includes one of the old hosts, their sexual protector, and their caretaker/the systems gatekeeper.
Our primary protector (Bett) is sort of like the bridge between all of us bc she’s the old hosts physical protector and can talk to mostly everyone in the system.
Now, thanks to therapy, it’s much easier to talk to my subsystem of alters in headspace (it sorta sounds like thoughts but not my thoughts, like they’re in a different voice but a thought voice not an actual voice; i don’t actually hear anything when they talk to me.) but before, i couldn’t talk to them at all.
Before, we mainly communicated through writing in our journal, sticky notes, or our notes app. That, and the fact that Bett can talk to them, is the only reason I know about the alters in the other subsystem. I’ve read their journal entries, i’ve read their notes, i’ve heard my therapist mention their names, but i’ve never actually spoken to them.
I think i might have co-fronted with one (Harley is her name) once while Bett was there, but that was because Harley was doing their sexual protector duties and Bett was stopping her bc we weren’t in any danger and she has some self destructive tendencies. That’s probably the most contact I’ve had with anyone outside of my subsystem. I do have a pen-pal type relationship with the old host tho, we have the same music and book tastes so we share control of the Spotify and audible account.
There are people I don’t know anything about, like our gatekeeper, our little, and an introject i’ve never met. Our little is in my subsystem but she doesn’t really like to talk to anyone other than Bett. Our gatekeeper on the other hand is in the other subsystem and doesn’t talk to Bett much so she doesn’t have much to tell me about him.
The introject isn’t in either subsystem and might be dormant. The only reason I know he exists is because my therapist met him once and never again. I’m sorry this got really long but I hope this answers your question!
@@LOBSTERMANN3000 it helps a lot! And don't worry about the extension, I think that even that is long, it was necessary to understand it right, specially the last 2 or 3 pharagraphs. I'm someone that had never experienced that (not more than "a talk with yourself"), so more information helps to understand something that only know for fictions (and maybe in a wrong way, like the video suggests)
Thanks for sharing so much of your life!! Specially to an unknown. 😁
Thanks for sharing something personal like this; It's nice to hear that you and your primary protector were able to come to an understanding. Wine aunt ftw lol.
That said, just the image of a bunch of identities fighting over who "the original" is, while the actual first is just chilling in a corner is kinda funny to me.
Question though: There are a lot of terms here that I think I vaguely get, but not completely. Would you care to explain what terms like "little", "gatekeeper", and "host" mean/entail? How are these roles typically defined specifically?
@@DTux5249
(1/2)
Yes yes yes. I'd be happy to and sorry for assuming everyone knew what the terms meant!
Ok so alter roles are kind of bs in some cases (my opinion) and just cause unnecessary confusion. depending on how many alters the system has, alters can take on 2 or 3 different roles the smaller the system is. For example, Marc, Steven, and Jake all take on so many roles that I can barely pinpoint them. At this point, having roles would be kind of pointless. That being said, I can speak to how we use the terms to figure out who might front when and what the words mean. You can predict a lot about who might be fronting based on situation alone!
Imma give a basic definition of each role and what they do:
Host:
the alter that fronts most often. If there's more than one alter that fits that description, they would both be co-hosts. Hosts usually Identify with the name the body goes by and how the body looks but depending on how many different hosts there are this could stop being the case for one reason or another, which I will get to later on.
Protector:
pretty self-explanatory. they protect other alters from various things and usually don't hold trauma.
A primary protector is one that kinda does it all like a general protector and a first line of defense, at least for my system.
Physical protectors specialize in keeping the body safe from physical harm and may even fight back to defend the body in some cases.
Emotional protectors take over the body when emotions get too strong and may even act as soothers for alters in emotional distress or will just front when in a highly emotional situation if an alter can't handle it.
Sexual protectors are exclusive to systems that have experienced sexual assault and take over when the body is being sexually assaulted or in sexual distress to either perform for the abuser and not show fear to keep the body safe or just endure the assault in place of another alter. These kinds of alters may be hypersexual and may even harm the body because of their hypersexuality or they may be asexual and have a bad relationship with sex, or they fit into neither of those boxes, but sexual protectors do vary like that to the point that it's notable.
Some systems may also have internal protectors to keep alters safe from internal abuse.
Jake, Imo feels like a physical protector for both Marc and Steven, since he takes over when physical fighting and abuse becomes too much for Marc or Steven to handle.
Persecutors:
these are alters that actively seek to harm other alters in the system. although they may seem counterproductive on the surface, persecutors act as a sort of misguided protector or a protector who holds trauma. they are alters with good intentions but bad ways of fulfilling their role as a protector. Most of the time, the logic is "if I hurt the others enough, they'll be stronger the next time someone hurts us." they'll gladly be the bad guy if it means the system can handle more abuse when (if) it comes. With therapy, persecutors usually realize what they're doing isn't helping and they may become a protector or just a trauma holder. (oh, hoho perfect segway)
Trauma holder:
another self-explanatory one but this one is the first of the roles that can double and make things complicated. trauma holders hold trauma. They're the ones that remember so others don't have to. They may only front during trauma and act as a punching bag, or they serve as protectors that may or may not turn into persecutors. in our case, our emotional protector who takes over when things get too much is also a trauma holder. he protects from and holds on to the trauma, but trauma holders can also just take the suppressed memories from protectors so that protectors can do their job without the weight of trauma.
I would probably consider Marc a trauma holder as well as a host because he's the one who held on to the bad memories so steven didn't have to. but at the same time, he could also be considered a physical protector for Steven because he endured the physical abuse. Smaller systems like in Moon Knight and definitely much more confusing lmao.
Gatekeeper:
these are alters that see all and know all. they can sometimes stop alters from feeling certain emotions/put them in a dissociative state, deny access to certain memories, and most importantly, they can push and pull alters to and from the front. they are the big person in charge, the brains of the operation, if you will. These alters are rare to front and usually keep in headspace to have better control of everything. Most people think hosts are the ones in charge because you see them outside the most, but more often than not hosts answer to gatekeepers and often don't remember much or feel much because of the influence of gate keepers and this could cause a rift between the two. It sure has for me and my gatekeeper, I've never even met or heard from the guy and he literally yoinks all my memories.
littles:
child alters. this is less of a role and more an age range. littles have the mannerisms cognitive behavior and thinking skills of a child. they highly resemble children in their interests, the way they speak, the way they act, etc. A big misconception though is that littles cannot access adult parts of the brain. Littles are capable of doing adult chores, they understand things at the educational level as someone the body's age and have the same capacity for though as a person the body's age. they are not, however, capable of adult decision making, are usually quite naive, and do not have an understanding of things to be able to consent like an adult. littles should be taken care of as if they were children because, usually, their purpose is to be the child the body never got to be. littles are not really their own role because littles can be protectors, ex-hosts, trauma holders, gatekeepers, and persecutors. usually, the goal of a system with littles is to relieve them of their role so that they can just be kids.
As for an example of a little having a role, in our system we have a little who was about 8 and was a hypersexual sexual protector. she didn't necessarily enjoy sex but felt as though she needed to keep performing her role and would take over even when the body wasn't in sexual danger. It was very sad and I'm glad she no longer feels she needs to do that.
System here. This entire series was a blessing. By the nature of how people around us and just in general view DID, we never would've imagined we'd ever land in a place this healthy in media, finally. The fact that this show exists makes me feel like I can finally breathe, and that we can take ourselves more seriously. Admit how incredibly difficult this all is, and not constantly feel like a burden for not just being one person. It'll take a lifetime to get over that feeling, of course. It's hard not to sit there feeling like a massive burden about it.
We recently got a new job as a delivery driver. It's a great company, and the staff is small and tight nit, and like a family. Self describing as a bunch of squirrels in a nut house lol. They all know we have it. They treat us as separate individual people, and respect us as we are. It's a breath of fresh air, and working here has made us the most okay we've ever been, even though things are still repairing from physically and mentally horrific conditions. We're really lucky to have them, as well as our fiancé who also has DID.
We're also so lucky to have you guys at cinema therapy. Seriously, clicking on a video by you guys and hanging out just to sob over things you point out that never came to mind really makes us feel at home. Thank you for making us realize that we really do have it nasty with our "family" and in general, and that it's not just weakness or selfishness. It's really validating to come here and realize how effed up we really are. Usually right over on the tears train with Alan haha, and I couldn't be more grateful for it.
Jonathan and Alan, seriously, thank you both so much for this channel. You guys really make the world feel okay for a bit.
If I may ask, is your fiance the system's fiance or one alter's (is that the correct term?) fiance? Is everyone in your system in a relationship with everyone in the fiance's system? Or is it specific personalities that are engaged? I'm just curious, but feel free to not answer for whatever reason. I don't want to offend, I'm just curious how relationships with others work when a system.
@@katwolf897 Hey no worries at all, it's good to ask questions. So both systems are collectively engaged to each other, but individually the relationships all differ from romantic, sexual, platonic, and anywhere from close to acquaintances. Dating started with a few couples but at this point, we're all mostly close in some way even if not always in any sorta dating way
To be fair dating relationships aren't a majority. We're just engaged cause we're all so close and intertwined. Collectively it's like a really cozy best friendship with some spice thrown in lol. It's really nice
@@rixambrysmakara8272 sounds like poly in some form just with two fleshy meat bags instead of like 7 :) glad it’s working for you :) poly is hard haha
I really want to take it upon myself to learn and understand about DID for a character I'm writing. My character actually doesn't have DID but is actually a woman who's possessed by an angel and they share equal control of the " vessel " although normally the human is the one steering simply because she's significantly more extroverted lol. BUT, I want to understand DID because if my character is ever caught switching by someone who doesn't know what they are, I want my character to lie and say they have DID but not write it like a joke but actually use the correct terminology. I'd like to use it as an opportunity to give a little education and also potentially show what kind of crap and ignorance systems face.
Fun fact, the angel character speaks with a British accent but she actually chooses to speak with an accent just so it's easier for people to know who's speaking. Their eyes would change colours depending who's talking and there's different body language as well. I'm writing these characters for a show I'm trying to write a pilot script for so I'm overthinking about every little detail about them and tips to give the actress who'd be playing them. Different accents, different speech patterns, different body language, different behaviors etc. Typically, both characters are completely aware of everything going on with the body, I like to think of them like conjoined twins or like two people have their limbs tied together and they move as one. But, the only time the human (the actual owner of the body) is unaware of what the angel is doing when the angel is I control is when the human is asleep. Angels don't sleep. Typically the angel just uses the night as time to do paperwork and research etc (they are detectives ).
I'd love to hear from systems about their thoughts and ideas and input. I'd love to hear if you have funny DID related stories, how people typically react to seeing a switch or learning about your system and what kind of negative responses you get (to give awareness).
I loved this so much, especially the realisation Steven is not just an alter, but a fictive, a kind of alter that's so easily, so often looked down upon as fake and childish and pretend and we see just how real a person he is. Because all alters are fully real in terms of having memories, making choices, having goals, in terms of their self awareness and conscious thought.
As a fictive-heavy system? Yes. This
The use of the term 'fictive' is misleading. It was originally created to describe the writing creative process. It has been adopted by DID systems, but people need to accept that there are multiple meanings and not argue over the "true" meaning, but that you have to define the term when you use it. Much like scientists coopted the words "magic" and "charmed" for specific physics tbat do not relate to fantasy.
@@krishadyn5211lots of words have multiple definitions im not sure why we specifically have to define fictive especially when this is a comment on a did related video so of course theyre using that definition...?um.
"Steven with a 'v'." He said that a few times in the beginning.
@@tarag7292 thanks, edited
Hearing Steven say "Marc all those things she said to you, it isn't true. It wasn't your fault. You were just a child." Its heartwrenching to hear the one considered the weak one by outside forces to see the truth. That despite all the ugliness in the world, Marc is still a child who blames himself, believes the words of his abusive mother and is scared. Steven is the kindness Marc never had and that is what he gives to Marc. So when Marc goes back to save Steven, and says you are the only superpower I ever needed, it broke me. Because its the most powerful thing that the victims of abuse can have: self-love
I read the "rapid switching" during the climactic fight scene to be a visual shorthand for the fact that they're co-conscious, which I thought was a really smart way to go about it.
Months later, I still cry every time I remember the "don't call my mom" scene, the whole episode 5 it's just so vulnerable and so real, and Oscar is just fantastic in every moment
I was once talking to someone who had DID, but hadn't told anyone. And they switched during the conversation. So, I got to know two people that day. They were very apologetic about it the next day, but they had nothing to be sorry for. While it wasn't a super dramatic change in personality, I could definitely tell I went from talking to a girl, to talking to a boy. A whole different person.
Also worth noting is that when Steven and Marc come to terms with each other and get along better, their switches between each other are much less dramatic. It’s both more realistic and a good way to communicate to the audience that Marc and Steven are communicating as a system now
I love Marc's breakdown following his refusal to attend his mother's shiva. So many emotions, loss because part of him still loved his mother despite everything, regret that he'll never be able to make peace with her, shame for not being there with his family in their time of need. Fantastic scene by the writers, and Oscar Isaac brought it out so well.
honestly as much as i hated the mother(i understood why but as a guy i will never be able to experience on her level,neither do i wish to,being hurt is not excuse to hurt others)
it was heartbreaking to see how damaged marc was.she abused him and made his life a liveing hell,thus obviously he hated her,but somewhere he couldn't just kill the image of her and felt dirty for not aattending his last memory of her being "alive".i loved moon knight but episode 5 was completely crazy in execution and exploration and i loved it
I've always thought that people with DID were injured to the point that they needed a safe place, and the only safe place was to splinter. I have my own issues, but to hurt that badly, that the only place you can go is another place you've created in your mind. I'm so sorry for anyone that has been through that kind of pain and turmoil. May you know peace, may you heal if that is the path you wish, and may you make that place of safety for yourself in the outside world.
As someone who is part of a system, you’re pretty much correct. When enough happens to a child brain, the brain cannot fully form an identity and that with memory walls (or amnesia) opens the gate to splitting alters
Yeah that's pretty much what happens. Traumatic events are any event that overwhelms your ability to process it in the moment. For children, everything is already overwhelming, every bad thing is the end of the world and every good thing is the best thing you've ever experienced. That's why DID develops in childhood; you overwhelm that child with too much negative, and that child is spending so much time on those events that they don't get to develop a coherent identity. So it splits itself off and breaks those events apart, sort of. Tries to containerize it in a different box, to protect itself.
Fun part is that the more your brain learns to do this, the more open you are to becoming poly fragmented, because instead of developing an actual coping mechanism, your brain sees stress and decides mitosis is easier than trying to unpack it, because it always has been. Fun stuff. At least, that's our understanding of it all.
There's so much that hit home for me in Moon Knight, particularly the scene where Mark is talking to Layla about how maybe she doesn't really know him because he's concealed his mental illness and trauma from her. So many small moments throughout the show that I was just like oh, so that's not just me. Cool.
My theory is that Layla never knew about Steven because Mark always felt safe enough around her to not have to switch.
@@melodyfussell829 I think you're right, and also, Steven really reminds me of Layla, they have the same hobbies, he likes her favorite writer, not only he feel safe enough not to switch, his protector have a lot of common with his wife.
@@melodyfussell829 Honestly I see why. Even when she didn't fully understand it she was so kind to them and caring. She was upset but she still loved them. Steven probably went dormant during that time as Marc didn't need an escape.
Although I'm pretty sure Marc never told Layla about his abuse and alters as he thought that he was a horrible person who killed his own brother and deserved the abuse, and if Layla knew who he truly was, she wouldn't love him (of course it's not true, but that's probably how he felt).
Oscar Isaac deserves SO MANY awards for his portrayal of Mark & Steven, especially in the backstory episode. I cried, followed every beat, could see every switch. He is 100% amazing!!!
This series really proves how good and compassionate of an actor Oscar Isaac is
Gentle correction (as requested): it’s not deeply uncommon to have internal dialogue between aspects of the self. This is often experienced as thoughts which the presenting part/alter would consider “not their own” but also doesn’t consider to be outside their own body (auditory hallucination) or put in their head (as seen sometimes with psychosis/delusional thinking).
In fact, a key component of DID treatment is increasing the patient’s pre-existing awareness of and engagement between all parts of the self. It definitely isn’t experienced as literally seeing your reflection talk to you though. And it can vary greatly within the same patient whether they experience the internal dialogue as a smooth flow of thoughts back and forth, or as a very strained, abstract, and delayed call-and-response. It depends a great deal on the degree of personal dissociation the presenting part/alter is experiencing at any given time.
Yeah, I feel it is very uncomment in the "early stages" where the host or maybe even several personality aspects are unaware of the other but grows more commen as along with the awareness
I'm married to a system of 2 and it happens quite often that they'll have a dialogue at the speed of thought that ends with a joke and a physical outward chuckle; I'll pipe in with a "what? I want to hear the joke too." We've been married for 6 years and I love them so much.
Yeah. Sometimes it's like "welp, im stuck here by myself a guess." And other times its sort of like i have a peanut gallery who likes to make sarcastic remarks about everything i do (playfully of course, not mean spirited)
@@krisakitty when you get third wheeled in your marriage smh (/j that’s super cute actually)
Watching this with my mom, was actually a really powerful way for her to understand what goes on in my head, as a person with DID. And at the end of the series, she actually understood for the first time why there were different alters and why the protector personality was established. It was a really amazing moment. And thank you for taking the time to not only review this, and show some of the incredibly powerful moments, but acknowledge that a system is an alternative way of existing, rather than something that needs to be fixed.
I really want to take it upon myself to learn and understand about DID for a character I'm writing. My character actually doesn't have DID but is actually a woman who's possessed by an angel and they share equal control of the " vessel " although normally the human is the one steering simply because she's significantly more extroverted lol. BUT, I want to understand DID because if my character is ever caught switching by someone who doesn't know what they are, I want my character to lie and say they have DID but not write it like a joke but actually use the correct terminology. I'd like to use it as an opportunity to give a little education and also potentially show what kind of crap and ignorance systems face.
Fun fact, the angel character speaks with a British accent but she actually chooses to speak with an accent just so it's easier for people to know who's speaking. Their eyes would change colours depending who's talking and there's different body language as well. I'm writing these characters for a show I'm trying to write a pilot script for so I'm overthinking about every little detail about them and tips to give the actress who'd be playing them. Different accents, different speech patterns, different body language, different behaviors etc. Typically, both characters are completely aware of everything going on with the body, I like to think of them like conjoined twins or like two people have their limbs tied together and they move as one. But, the only time the human (the actual owner of the body) is unaware of what the angel is doing when the angel is I control is when the human is asleep. Angels don't sleep. Typically the angel just uses the night as time to do paperwork and research etc (they are detectives ).
I'd love to hear from systems about their thoughts and ideas and input. I'd love to hear if you have funny DID related stories, how people typically react to seeing a switch or learning about your system and what kind of negative responses you get (to give awareness).
How old are you?
I worked in IT for years. I once had a client who almost certainly had DID. He wanted me to secure his computer, which I did, but I was “hacked” within 24hrs. The poor guy was so genuinely concerned that someone was messing with him, drugging him (because he would lose hours or days of his life). When he went to jail after reporting that someone broke into his house and put drugs in his pants pockets, I advocated as hard as I could for the guy. I still think of him often and wish him the best.
What I love love LOVE about this show is that it's one of the best representations not only about DID but of neurodivergent conditions. People with any brain working that deviates from the norm are usually portrayed either as creepy or poor tortured souls, they are designed to inspire more pity and disgust than actual compassion. What they did here was, not only to make Steven and Marc inspire authentic compassion and sympathy, but also to be strong protagonists. they're not a victim to pity, they are badass heroes who just happen to be part of a DID system, and that is beautiful.
I was SO SCARED when my siblings told me about this series. I was so painfully aware of how badly DiD was treated by media.
The relief I felt when one by one my fears where laid to rest.
I personally have DID and honestly I feel like this video covers a lot of my personal issues and what I go through..
Something i really liked is the relationship to Konchu and how Systems aren't dangerous to others, but actually *more vulnerable* to being used and abused *again.* How he takes advantage of them, how Mark suffered, and then *lies* to them and takes advantage of another alter in the system (they dont know about and therefore can't shield against. and the implication they cannot be sure how often he could try to do this). that thought is terrifying but strikes me as sadly realistic. a system as a victim and the bad influence coming from an outsider i havent seen before and was also done with such compassion. you just want them to heal and be happy and konchu to get the hell out
Firstly, I love how Moon Knight does not shy away from the fact that DID is a DISSOCIATIVE disorders. That plays so well into the fact that one of the big conflicts is that the system isn't working together. They are not looking after the lives each alter is living and once they come to terms with and accept each other, those issues become less.
Yeah all the comments saying "personalities" annoy tf out of me because its not a personality disorder, please just say alters please
Btw if anyone wants to read a moon knight book that also focuses on the DID aspect, I really recommend the jeff lemire run. The asylum episode is directly based off it, and the book itself spends a lot more time there and on marc's relationship with his mental health. It also features his alters heavily in the 2nd half and is just a beautiful depiction of the system as a whole working together to reclaim their lives for the themselves.
That moment when Steven fell from the boat destroyed me. That proves how good they portrayed his character until then. He's finally the one protecting Marc and taking the decision and he got rewarded by freezing to death in a desert, with the dead. I was so glad he came back and that Marc came for him !
I appreciate a lot more those Marvel series who treats about trauma and family than the rest. That's why Wanda Vision, Moon Knight and Miss Marvel are my favorite of the bunch.
WandaVision had the same impact on me that Moon Knight seems to have had on people with DID. Just "yes! yes! This is exactly how it feels!" And just seeing it expressed in a way that feels... true, for lack of a better word, is so comforting. That there is someone who completely gets it.
This...I loved all the shows mentioned because of that.
Ms. Marvel is my favorite because of how they had to progress in both prejudices from outside the community (Mosque surveillance) to prejudices (Women pray in the back, decrepit part of building and never voted to office in Mosque) in their culture as well.
Like they push the kids to be great and when the children called them on their progressive stance to the outside world but not in the community/culture is such a fascinating thing to see
Absolutely love how the show makes you get used to the dynamic of "Steven is the kind & innocent coward, and Marc is the rough & brave protector". And then episode 5 hits you with the "When danger is near, Steven Grant has no fear" line kinda implying that to Marc, Steven is the brave one. (Dynamics like this, where the one that is more outwardly confident secretly looks up to/respects the more timid one just really get to me).
Also, love the seen with Steven telling Marc that it's not his fault and that he shouldn't blame himself for what happened to his brother. Self forgiveness is something a lot of people struggle with and I feel like a lot of people wish they could just give the more damaged parts of themselves a hug and say "it's okay"/"it's not your fault".
@05:23 Hi there! PixelDee system here; recently diagnosed back in August.. There's a term called "Co-con" or "Co-concious", which both myself and my alter are like, 75% of the time. We believe that Steven and Marc, as they learn and interact with each other, learning eachother and growing, there's less "Time Loss" between when Marc switches in and Steven takes back control. They're working in harmony. A good way to describe, at least for me, with myself and my alter, is that we're driving a car, I'm driving the body, while my alter is in the passenger seat.. it's hard to describe..
Wow, really? Thats… hard to believe. Like, you’re not lying and it would be rude to say you’re lying yet it’s still hard to believe. Well, if it’s good then I say “good for you!” If it’s bad I say “I’m sorry for you.” At least you’re never lonely? I’m not sure what to say.
''People with DID have suffered and they deserve compassion, not fear and judgment.''
Thank you Jonathan. Just that was enough for me. Respect ! I love that series so much and I can't wait to see the rest of it. Finally something that portrayed DID for what it really is for me or for others. Obviously it's not 100% right, but i put it on the artistic telling.
Great episode !
I was diagnosed with DID in ~2016 and moon knight did so well. It almost made me cry seeing it depicted so realistically and with such.... nuance and love. Moon Knight was my favourite comic character even before my diagnosis, and seeing the episode with the psych ward excited me as a fan because there ARE whole moon knight comics that turn out to be entirely in Mark's head. I was absolutely convinced that in the last scene where he wakes up chained to the bed and asks "Are you there?" that we would not get a response, leaving us to wonder if any of it had happened after all.
I really want to take it upon myself to learn and understand about DID for a character I'm writing. My character actually doesn't have DID but is actually a woman who's possessed by an angel and they share equal control of the " vessel " although normally the human is the one steering simply because she's significantly more extroverted lol. BUT, I want to understand DID because if my character is ever caught switching by someone who doesn't know what they are, I want my character to lie and say they have DID but not write it like a joke but actually use the correct terminology. I'd like to use it as an opportunity to give a little education and also potentially show what kind of crap and ignorance systems face.
Fun fact, the angel character speaks with a British accent but she actually chooses to speak with an accent just so it's easier for people to know who's speaking. Their eyes would change colours depending who's talking and there's different body language as well. I'm writing these characters for a show I'm trying to write a pilot script for so I'm overthinking about every little detail about them and tips to give the actress who'd be playing them. Different accents, different speech patterns, different body language, different behaviors etc. Typically, both characters are completely aware of everything going on with the body, I like to think of them like conjoined twins or like two people have their limbs tied together and they move as one. But, the only time the human (the actual owner of the body) is unaware of what the angel is doing when the angel is I control is when the human is asleep. Angels don't sleep. Typically the angel just uses the night as time to do paperwork and research etc (they are detectives ).
I'd love to hear from systems about their thoughts and ideas and input. I'd love to hear if you have funny DID related stories, how people typically react to seeing a switch or learning about your system and what kind of negative responses you get (to give awareness).
As someone with DID, i actually cried. Thank you so much for having compassion for us and listening to us. So often, we are told our experiences are fake and manipulative, and despite how much we protest, we are seen as maligerers and abusive people. Thank you, really. I appreciate this.
Reading and seeing all these comments about people with DID who watched the show and the video and how much it means to them, makes all this feel so wholesome. I know there is a stigma about people with DID and it's so wholesome and heartwarming to hear that this has made them all feel welcome
There are 5 of us all together. I'm the host and original, but we all work together and make decisions together on the best course of action for the body and for my life. They're my family. I thought they were a disease for so long and finally in the past 5 years have really grown to love them and can't imagine a life without them. We are there for each other. Thank you Marvel, for finally showing the world that we aren't monsters.
18:35 “Young Mark has a mother who hates him and abuses him.”
As a DID system, it is so much more nuanced. What if the mother that screams at him, who is disgusted by him, who beats him is the same mother who sings the lullaby and rocks him to sleep, who bakes the cookies, who points out the beautiful flower beside the road? And she is the same mother who cries, who holds a knife pointed at her own belly while trembling, who wishes she (the mother) were dead.?
Most adults would find it hard to reconcile that these three mothers are the same mother. And yet they are. How is a very young child supposed to make sense of the chaos that is the mother that they so desperately love and need and hate and fear and worry about? Is it really any wonder that a system of parts develops within the child? Dare I say, how could it not?
If I say the truth as a system in a 50+ year old female body, it is so much easier to believe I am unloveable (which hurts a lot) than to try and reconcile the complex wounded women who is my mother (and still I try).
I wonder if it is not just the pain of abuse that contributes greatly to the creation of DID, but its juxtaposition with gentle caring and love from the same person.
I don't have DID but I related to this in my upbringing ❤
Usually when we switch, we just stare somewhere, get really braindead for a bit, and then (according to onlookers) my facial expression changes. When someone knows me, they can tell who is at the front.
I am lucky and get to live my life unbothered mostly. There have been very, very violent short term switches, usually when a protector came out, the situation turned back into normal, but when someone triggers the protector again. That switch can be instantanious - and it mentally hurts. I usually get a migraine when someone does that to me.
The prortayal in Moon Knight is definitely a lot more accurate. Snip had the more realistic switching for my own experience.
The amazing nature of Moon Knight noted, I’m living for the unabashed constant adoration for Oscar Isaac that these two grown men have 😂
🤩🤩
Our job is to care for people with dementia. I love how it makes us able to be both sensitive to those who need it. To support and identify emotions and know how to help them even though they are essentially voiceless and, at the same time able to stand up strong when one of them gets violent. And then, because we are all together, once the client forgets why they are so angry, we can switch right back to friendly and smiling and problem solve that outburst. It's just smooth and beautiful. I love it!
Ethan Hawke's daughter Maya (currently on Stranger Things) convinced him to sign on for this. She's got good instincts.
As a plural system, we are often co-concious and there have been times where we have switched rapidly, and it's on my watchlist and haven't watched it yet, I seriously appreciate how moon knight portrays system members as full, actual living breathing individuals. I would also recommend looking up Power to the Plurals, a nonprofit organization that was founded by plurals for plurals and they have a conference every year and they help medical professionals and therapists and they also do research on plurality as a whole. Furthermore, there's been a new study called Transgender Mental Health written by Dr. Eric Yarbourough, who is Head of Psychiatry at the Callen-Lorde Community Health Center, a health center dedicated specifically to serving the LGBTQIA2+ community and Distinguished Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association and there's actually a whole section dedicated to plurality.
I’d love to hear what y’all think of this show once you see it! I don’t know much about DID except for what I’ve seen on TV, and I know that generally, its sorely terribly represented. I’d love to learn more about it from systems themselves!
i noticed you switched between "we" and "I". Was that intentional? I hope I'm not being rude, I have bipolar disorder which is also so often badly portrayed, so I like to learn about/talk to other nuero-divergent people.
@@katens2002 We often use I and we interchangeably and some systems even make up new sets of pronouns to combine both "I, me, we and us" together!
@OdinsSage No, we haven't.
Okay, I just want to say that y'all have the coolest system name I've ever seen. Assuming that your username is what your system is called, anyway. If it isn't, then your username is still badass. It sounds like a band name or something.
My lover has DIDu<
Got a question for them if I'm not intruding over this, how much is the switching a conscious/voluntary action?
For example, one of them absolutely cannot tolerate loud music, is it possible they'd get the crap of luck of switching to the noise sensitive personality (I'm not really sure how to refer to an individual in a system in a way that's concise and humanizing, so I apologize if I fuck up with that) in the middle of a very loud rave or something.
Would the enviroment/context prevent/delay the switch from happening if it caused direct distress? essentially.
Please tell me what they think of the show!
Congradulations! 🎉 hope the wedding+honeymoon goes well! (Or, went well if it already happened)
Congratulations! 😊❤
@@garablacktail5426 the systems I know swtiching is very voluntary unless there's a direct threat and one of the protectors will force a shift. One I know goes 'inside' and someone else comes out the door. There was an instance were one of the alts was curious and came out without asking and then actually had the 'holy fuck this music is LOUD' moment and promptly scurried back in. But the protectors seem to have a way to force their way out, they don't unless needed though.
That line "you were just a child. It wasn't your fault" brings me to tears every. Single. Time. 😭