Thanks so much for another great video. I would love to see you do this with a Brose ona Levo. I’ve been riding a Bosch for sometime now and recently rode a Levo. It really seems to give you power more easy and I was wondering what the actual data was.
After my ( and many others' ) Shimano EP8 showed e010 code, I didn't dare going for another Shimano. Almost no one repairs those other than Shimano. I'm back to a Bosch CX performance now, and my heart rate confirms the stronger Bosch :)
I`m on my first Shimano eMTB and my commuter is second time in three years at LBS because of broken CX4 😅 Specialized lasted 2,5 years and 3600km before motor died…
Nice video 👌 surprised with the results expected the Bosch to trump the Shimano significantly 😮I have heard though the aftercare with Shimano especially out of warranty is not great Bosch look after you a lot better which would be a huge influence in the purchase
I recently discovered Bosch gen4 have something more than the walk assist they have some kind of "hand brake" which prevents the wheel from turning backwards...I saw a french mtb reviewers demonstrate by rising his front wheel vertically above the rear wheel and push it in that vertical position between rocks and trees where the handlebar would be blocked, interesting comparison, coming from a muscular bike I don't mind if the bosch helps less I only want an emtb to do stuff that I can't do by muscles I tried going up a mountain pass road segment fine 20% on dirt or gravel with deep ruts...couldn't do it the slightest rock stopped my momentum as long as the bosch compensate it's weight and gives me that "push" when obstacles stop my pedaling it's ok
Hi! Is every Shimano EP801/EP800 motor come with same default profiles Eco/Trail/Boost without manufactures custom settings? And are you testing these videos with default settings? What if some other brand has a custom power profile that they use, so is every motor compatible to other brans desition?
I think the Shimano usually comes with Boost set to max. Bosch comes with Turbo set to 0. We increased Turbo to +5, which is max. I forgot to mention this in the video, we're setting everything to max before testing.
Last week i tried out the orbea wild and the old orbea rise. Wild had the 85nm bosch and rise had 60nm ep8. Rise was more natural feeling but the wild gave more support and more fun. I asked an other tester about the new rise with the ep801rs and he said that the new one is stronger but the bosch would still win during a drag race or during a longer climb by providing more support. In this video i see the exact opposite so please help me to understand what is the reality? (I will definitely try out the new rise as soon as it will be available)
801RS is Orbea's custom firmware for EP801 drive unit. It should feel more natural and is limited to 60Nm. Standard EP801 is significantly stronger as RS version.
vivoben united states it is supposed to cut at 20 miles and when I look at the kiox 300 it indicates 19.6 miles quw dwja dw assist could you guide me I have a Bosch cx power line 300 smart system 4 generation engine.
Yeah, the Wild is about 2 kg heavier and has a bit more travel than the BESV. We didn't succeed in getting more similar bikes. But we think it's okay. They've both got steep seat angles and similar chainstays. Both bikes were nicely balanced for this climb and none had traction issues. Riding the loop, there are many variables apart from weight, travel and geo. There will be variation in line choices and it's difficult setting up the suspension the same as most bikes will have different rear sus designs. So, this test loop is just done to see if we can find any obvious differences.
When you update the Shimano EP 801 to the 5.3.2 update it is way better than the Bosch, even the Bosch CX race with the 532 update, and the motor turned all the way up including the overrun its the best motor. Overrun is awsome for rocky climbs. I have had both bikes and a Rocky Mountain altitude that burned my garage down due to a faulty charging system that overcharged and blew the battery up. The Rocky Mountain was fast but it had no bottom end no overrun and it was a jerky and you had to Pedal at about 75 RPM to get it to go any place anything less feels like pedaling an exercise bike
👍Real interesting test👏😊. I always Wonder why the Bosch engine Wins competitions and perhaps only until now, when the EP801 got this latest "race" update. It would be interesting to know how it is with the "over run" = how long after you stop paddling de engine keep on continues to operate, that I think is the reason why Bosch is wins competitions🤔😉
Great(Powerful) motors should be dependent on how the warranties cover the product. I have had heart failure dealing with Bosch and Shimano. And any problem with the motors, the bike shops, tell me they are not responsible, and I personally, need to go through the manufacturer. So much for the $5 grand, on a bike that probably cost a few hundred to manufacture and assemble. Read those warranties! I replaced Bosch with Oli Edge, and for a year, the motor is so far...maintenance free. Commuting sixty-miles a week to work. Great warranty and customer service. The motor way-better than EP-801(and with a more friendly customer warranty), is the Yamaha pw-xm. A powerhouse. And motor cooling is better than Shimano. But, TH-cam only highlights products with massive marketing and advertising. Which is why better brands, often have depressing reviews on TH-cam. Case-in-point: Polini and Panasonic.
Competing who has the most powerfull motor is like competing whose flashlight has more candelas. E-bike motors already have enough power and superbright flashlights have very little practical use expect annoy other people. Reliability, how many kilometers you get out of same size battery and how fluently power is delivered are way more important. Most people do not need to go beyond eco-mode (lowest setting) even today or maybe one step up, still far from what all motors these days can deliver at full power. If you dont know how to use gears, more power wont help. You'll just wreck the bike.
in Europe ,because of the 250 watt limit restriction , 'power 'is compared by Nm or torque . Wattage for pedelecs is irrelevant here , it's ALL about the NM .
The 250W limit is continuous power. The peak power can be much higher and it can be maintained until the motor reaches thermal equilibrium. Peak power can vary between motors even though they're rated at the same torque.
@@siriosstar4789 Yeah, I always assumed the motor brands stated Nm to avoid confusion with the 250W continuous rule. But it seems more motor manufacturers also publish peak power these days.
I don't give a f which one is the strongest if drivetrain is not compatible with high torque. I have to change a f chain every 1000km which is soo soooo f stupid. Only carbon BELT AND ENGINE WITH GEARBOX MAKE SENSE FOR POWERFUL ENGINES
True , but i think they are talking about 250 watt motors with varying torque . some of the most "powerful" in terms of NMs are - TQ -120 Nm Sachs/BMZ- 112 Nm rocky mountain - about 100 Nm and i think there are one or two new motors coming on the market in Europe with high torque
I forgot to mention, both motors were tested with everything set to max. This means Turbo was set to +5 for the Bosch.
Thanks, awesome testing. I ride the Trek Rail 7 with the Garmin power meter. Nice to see some comparison values.
Great test, thanks!
Thanks so much for another great video. I would love to see you do this with a Brose ona Levo. I’ve been riding a Bosch for sometime now and recently rode a Levo. It really seems to give you power more easy and I was wondering what the actual data was.
Thanks! We will do more tests as we review bikes with different motors. We'll try to find a Specialized Rx 2.2 motor.
It’s good to see Shimano is stepping up. Manufacturers are moving to Bosh. They are leading.
After my ( and many others' ) Shimano EP8 showed e010 code, I didn't dare going for another Shimano. Almost no one repairs those other than Shimano. I'm back to a Bosch CX performance now, and my heart rate confirms the stronger Bosch :)
Yeah, it’s understandable just going with a different brand after experience issuses with the EP800.
I`m on my first Shimano eMTB and my commuter is second time in three years at LBS because of broken CX4 😅 Specialized lasted 2,5 years and 3600km before motor died…
Thanks for a great video and information. Really pleased with the results as my bike has the Ep801 motor on my favourite bike brand, Orange 👍👍👍
Nice video 👌 surprised with the results expected the Bosch to trump the Shimano significantly 😮I have heard though the aftercare with Shimano especially out of warranty is not great Bosch look after you a lot better which would be a huge influence in the purchase
I recently discovered Bosch gen4 have something more than the walk assist they have some kind of "hand brake" which prevents the wheel from turning backwards...I saw a french mtb reviewers demonstrate by rising his front wheel vertically above the rear wheel and push it in that vertical position between rocks and trees where the handlebar would be blocked, interesting comparison, coming from a muscular bike I don't mind if the bosch helps less I only want an emtb to do stuff that I can't do by muscles I tried going up a mountain pass road segment fine 20% on dirt or gravel with deep ruts...couldn't do it the slightest rock stopped my momentum as long as the bosch compensate it's weight and gives me that "push" when obstacles stop my pedaling it's ok
Hi! Is every Shimano EP801/EP800 motor come with same default profiles Eco/Trail/Boost without manufactures custom settings? And are you testing these videos with default settings? What if some other brand has a custom power profile that they use, so is every motor compatible to other brans desition?
I think the Shimano usually comes with Boost set to max. Bosch comes with Turbo set to 0. We increased Turbo to +5, which is max. I forgot to mention this in the video, we're setting everything to max before testing.
Last week i tried out the orbea wild and the old orbea rise. Wild had the 85nm bosch and rise had 60nm ep8. Rise was more natural feeling but the wild gave more support and more fun. I asked an other tester about the new rise with the ep801rs and he said that the new one is stronger but the bosch would still win during a drag race or during a longer climb by providing more support. In this video i see the exact opposite so please help me to understand what is the reality? (I will definitely try out the new rise as soon as it will be available)
801RS is Orbea's custom firmware for EP801 drive unit. It should feel more natural and is limited to 60Nm. Standard EP801 is significantly stronger as RS version.
vivoben united states it is supposed to cut at 20 miles and when I look at the kiox 300 it indicates 19.6 miles quw dwja dw assist could you guide me I have a Bosch cx power line 300 smart system 4 generation engine.
How similar are these bikes in terms of weight and climbing behavior? I would compare the Orbea Wild to the Pivot Shuttle LT.
Yeah, the Wild is about 2 kg heavier and has a bit more travel than the BESV. We didn't succeed in getting more similar bikes.
But we think it's okay. They've both got steep seat angles and similar chainstays. Both bikes were nicely balanced for this climb and none had traction issues.
Riding the loop, there are many variables apart from weight, travel and geo. There will be variation in line choices and it's difficult setting up the suspension the same as most bikes will have different rear sus designs. So, this test loop is just done to see if we can find any obvious differences.
When you update the Shimano EP 801 to the 5.3.2 update it is way better than the Bosch, even the Bosch CX race with the 532 update, and the motor turned all the way up including the overrun its the best motor. Overrun is awsome for rocky climbs. I have had both bikes and a Rocky Mountain altitude that burned my garage down due to a faulty charging system that overcharged and blew the battery up. The Rocky Mountain was fast but it had no bottom end no overrun and it was a jerky and you had to Pedal at about 75 RPM to get it to go any place anything less feels like pedaling an exercise bike
Yeah, that's a nice update! We tested it here
th-cam.com/video/_Oe5EO1lg6g/w-d-xo.html
👍Real interesting test👏😊.
I always Wonder why the Bosch engine Wins competitions and perhaps only until now, when the EP801 got this latest "race" update.
It would be interesting to know how it is with the "over run" = how long after you stop paddling de engine keep on continues to operate, that I think is the reason why Bosch is wins competitions🤔😉
I actually published a vid about overrun just now (:
th-cam.com/video/rY84Gd8JCnA/w-d-xo.html
@@EMTBVideos
👍Perfekt😊
Would be interesting to do the same test between Bosch Cx an Sx
Hoping to have it out in about a week! (:
I have a EP801 32 tooth front chainring link glide 11 speed 50 big cog cassette
29er
It climbs walls
Derestricted to 35km
are they easy to derestrict?
Great(Powerful) motors should be dependent on how the warranties cover the product. I have had heart failure dealing with Bosch and Shimano. And any problem with the motors, the bike shops, tell me they are not responsible, and I personally, need to go through the manufacturer. So much for the $5 grand, on a bike that probably cost a few hundred to manufacture and assemble. Read those warranties! I replaced Bosch with Oli Edge, and for a year, the motor is so far...maintenance free. Commuting sixty-miles a week to work. Great warranty and customer service. The motor way-better than EP-801(and with a more friendly customer warranty), is the Yamaha pw-xm. A powerhouse. And motor cooling is better than Shimano. But, TH-cam only highlights products with massive marketing and advertising. Which is why better brands, often have depressing reviews on TH-cam. Case-in-point: Polini and Panasonic.
👏👌🙉🤠
Competing who has the most powerfull motor is like competing whose flashlight has more candelas. E-bike motors already have enough power and superbright flashlights have very little practical use expect annoy other people. Reliability, how many kilometers you get out of same size battery and how fluently power is delivered are way more important. Most people do not need to go beyond eco-mode (lowest setting) even today or maybe one step up, still far from what all motors these days can deliver at full power. If you dont know how to use gears, more power wont help. You'll just wreck the bike.
in Europe ,because of the 250 watt limit restriction ,
'power 'is compared by Nm or torque . Wattage for pedelecs is irrelevant here , it's ALL about the NM .
The 250W limit is continuous power. The peak power can be much higher and it can be maintained until the motor reaches thermal equilibrium. Peak power can vary between motors even though they're rated at the same torque.
Yes but peak power is not used very much as a selling point , where Nm ratings are .
@@siriosstar4789 Yeah, I always assumed the motor brands stated Nm to avoid confusion with the 250W continuous rule. But it seems more motor manufacturers also publish peak power these days.
Shimano you can unlock the motor 😊
Software
I don't give a f which one is the strongest if drivetrain is not compatible with high torque. I have to change a f chain every 1000km which is soo soooo f stupid. Only carbon BELT AND ENGINE WITH GEARBOX MAKE SENSE FOR POWERFUL ENGINES
Hehe, I know. I wish more brands would at least go 10 or 11-speed.
Broke my original shimano chain twice BEFORE 100km xD. Swapped to a kmc now and so far soo good.
1300 miles in boost near all the time in the mountains, original shimano chain
@@brukernavnfettsjit kmc e12 all the way, no more rust and durable. Shimano xt chains are a joke.
Shimano.xtr chain.
Nah the most powerful emtb motor is bafang m560 and m620. Or even bafang m600 of Vitus bikes
True , but i think they are talking about 250 watt motors with varying torque .
some of the most "powerful" in terms of NMs are -
TQ -120 Nm
Sachs/BMZ- 112 Nm
rocky mountain - about 100 Nm
and i think there are one or two new motors coming on the market in Europe with high torque
Bafang will overheat then drop power, gl with it 😂
I changed the title to make it more precise (: