@@davidh7078 Thank you🫵!! Should have the next one up this week sometime for ya. And no worries, happens all the time lol. Kinda surprised this one has lasted so long.. went through about a dozen of em last season lol. Thanks again buddy!!🍻
Great testing.👍 I never looked at these rounds until I bought a S&W Bodyguard 2.0 and started trying to find a loading to make this little gun more relevant.🤷♂ I have found these Underwood loadings, some copper/polymer matrix Norma NXD, and one other one I do not recall the name of right now. I am reconsidering them in 9mm & 10mm, especially as a feral hog round for hunting with PCC's.👍
This stuff might work well in a 38 snubby where you’re always worried about expansion out of the short tube. Thanks for another great video my friend. PS, I like the guitar at the end.
@@maxmccain8950 Yeah, u right.. would prolly be a wicked snubby round🤔. Gonna have to get some now lol. Thank you🫵for watchin, I appreciate ya buddy!!.. Figured was a lil to quiet at the end of the videos🤙, Thanks again!!🍻
I hate that underwood doesn’t load gold dots anymore. I did manage to stock up on them in 9mm before they stopped. The extreme defender performs extremely well regardless of caliber and they are surprisingly accurate out of mostly anything.
AZA it doesn't look like tumbling in the first block...all the blooms are spiral, clean and striated. Tumbling produces a soft bubbly temporary stretch. Although these projectiles do sometimes tumble in clear ballistics gel due to it's consistency and flip around from bounce back at the end of the track.
Good test, AZ! The XD is my EDC choice, although I carry the 10mm 100gr bullet in my Glock 29. I asked Lehigh what the difference between the 68 and 90 gr bullets was, since performance difference between the two is minimal, including penetration. Their reply was that some firearms have a fairly large difference in point of aim/point of impact but otherwise, there is little difference between the two, as long as function was the same for both. My Glock 26 fires both bullets to the same POI at average combat distances, so I could use either one. Same for my Glock 29 and the 100 and 115 gr bullets. If this is the case for you the better choice would probably be the lighter bullet, since these bullets do depend on velocity to do their work. This also reduces recoil. Since I carry the factory ammo (I simply cannot match their velocities!) my backup ammo is the 165 gr Speer Gold Dot, a bullet I have complete confidence in. Cheers, jc
@azairgunner I’d love to see this test repeated with (1) distance and separately with (2) barriers. These rounds really do seem to have a permanent wound cavity that depends strongly on velocity… … While the initial velocity of the lighter round is higher, I wonder how much more quickly it slows down due to air resistance over distance, and/or due to barrier penetration. It’s not the typical combat distance for a handgun, but if someone’s needs to pull an Elisjsha Dicken, then that 40 yards distance is going to play a role. Perhaps some or all of the following? 90gr vs 68gr, both in standard pressure loading for consistent chamber pressure. 1) 40 yards before reaching gel. 2) Penetrate car door before gel. 3) Two layers of drywall with a few inches of space in between, before gel (ie a house wall test). 4) Car windshield before gel. Why standard pressure? I’m sure +p will do even more damage in a defensive encounter, but I think the degradation in performance (due to distance or barrier) will be non-linear with energy, and I’d rather see any effect more clearly rather than less clearly, for a *test* like this. Basically, IF the 68grain performance is degraded more, following a barrier or distance, than the 90grain performance is degraded, I want the test that’s going to show that most clearly, not a test that’s going to minimize the difference and make it harder to see. 😊 Thanks!!!!!
Ok this is a very good test because it shows the likelihood of getting straight line penetration is low with these. I don’t see a need to retest because it’s pretty definitive. These won’t meet my needs.
The tracks were pretty straight, but angled downward. This probably means that he was either shooting slightly downward toward the block, or the table was tilted. In the other tests of these that I have seen, they track very straight and consistently get about 18” of penetration in gel.
It seems these rounds usually don't track straight, in gel anyway. It could possibly miss the vital organ you aimed at. They may have their purpose, but I'll stick with traditional lead core rounds. Good test, AZ. 👊👍
They track very straight actually. The tracks are just angled downward, which probably means he was shooting slightly downward toward the block because it was a little lower than the gun.
The 9mm XD 68gr might have put the 9 as the best all round self defense and perhaps duty pistol. Now I wonder how the 30 Super Carry would do with some light XD bullets, would they be able to go 1500 fps?
Great test, I've been following your tests for a while now I appreciate everything you do! I've been carrying the 90gr +p in my edc for about a year now I can feel the weight difference compared to a 124. Seems like these should be just fine if I ever have to use them. Now you got me thinking if I should start carrying a traditional jhp again, seems to be your preference right now? I can see these lightweight loads being good for say in a backpack type gun setup and you want to save weight if you gotta carry a couple hundred rounds of this stuff with you.
The starburst pattern in the gel means you’re seeing proper disruption, not tumbling. They do often tumble at some point, but the major initial wound track is from the bullet doing what it’s intended and nothing else really makes that big and nasty of a cavity. I think the lowest weight and fastest speed for the cartridge is the way to go with these bullets. More impact velocity means more disruption, but maybe more importantly the lower weight projectiles have a higher stability factor so they track better through tissue for longer before they get wonky and tumble. I wouldn’t worry about not tracking straight in a two legged self defense ammo. All of our goodies are close to the surface. Now as a bear round, you may have curving before hitting vitals, but if you’re not hitting the head or CNS, you’re toast anyways and these bone agnostic bullets are going to do a lot better versus a thick bear skull than a jhp.
Those Lehigh bullets seam to get their disruption from tumbling more than flute design. Tumbling is nondeterministic compared to say an HST. The bullet path isn't straight when they tumble. If you're shooting barriers they might make sense but I'll stay with a good lead core hollow point. Thanks for the test ..
@@drewday6109 Thanks brotha!! Heck yeah that'd be awesome!! Sorry for the delayed response on email.. been so backed up, tryin to catch up. Appreciate ya!!🍻
@@AzAirgunner. Underwood dumped two of the previous Dillon loading and they are getting rid of the 40 Super once the loading listed is sold out. It is too bad they do not make a limited run of these unique cartridges two times a year to keep their customers happy.
I would be happy to send you some to test but last time I tried to ship ammo USPS, UPS and FedEx all refused and told me only commercial accounts and FFL's can ship ammo.
@ yeah no kidding Went out of my comfort zone first time ever with handguns and got burned…twice 😂 I’ll stick with Glock / S&W Yet my buddy has a canik and runs great. QC with all firearms manufactures is a joke nowadays. Biggest thing is and a knew better was never buy new first gen..wait until the second or third gen
@@Grizzlyman420 Yeaaahhhh been there when I first started. Glock is definitely the bell curve option, great for new owners, and masters usually come back around to it anyway, while the mainstream turn their nose at it. Definitely hankering for a S&W M&P 2.0 Comp this Christmas. What did you snag for your S&W options?
@@nfaisnfgay the mc9 was supposed to be for my summer carry, I wanted something light for them hot days. I picked up a shield plus and it’s treated me very well. Winter time I stick with my Glock 29 10mm. 9mm Shield plus, M&P 2.0 40s&w, 9mm SVD-VE. That SVD was my first ever handgun so I keep it around plus I changed the trigger it works great. Also have a M&P sport 1&3 AR15 👍🏼 I’ve had really good luck with PSA as well. I have a Sabre AR with FN hammer forged chrome lined barrel and mannn that thing is nice! Also have a PSA GF5 AKM and PSA M4 all run great
Underwood delivers the goods, like usual! Definitely the go to rounds for vampire defense!
@@vladimirmihnev9702 💯🧛♂️🦇
I've been waiting forever for this video. Thanks guys. Looking forward to the +p+ version.
@@angrysheepdog9744 Thank you🫵!! Should be extra spicy🌶😁🤙
Tumbling.... diving.... dang fluted bullets. Nice test brotha.
@@user-dt8xy7ig2d Thank you🫵 appreciate it!!🍻
These performed very well
It was my pleasure Ronnie and thank you for always doing such outstanding testing. I'm excited to see the +P and the retest. Sorry about the table😂
@@davidh7078 Thank you🫵!! Should have the next one up this week sometime for ya. And no worries, happens all the time lol. Kinda surprised this one has lasted so long.. went through about a dozen of em last season lol. Thanks again buddy!!🍻
Thank you for making it happen David and for doing the video AZ 💪🏻
@@randallp2144 Thank you🫵 for taking the time to check it out!! Appreciate ya!!
@AzAirgunner. yessir 👐
A little piece of black duck tape your wife will never know😅
@@jimchambers7548 😂💯
Great testing.👍
I never looked at these rounds until I bought a S&W Bodyguard 2.0 and started trying to find a loading to make this little gun more relevant.🤷♂ I have found these Underwood loadings, some copper/polymer matrix Norma NXD, and one other one I do not recall the name of right now. I am reconsidering them in 9mm & 10mm, especially as a feral hog round for hunting with PCC's.👍
This stuff might work well in a 38 snubby where you’re always worried about expansion out of the short tube. Thanks for another great video my friend. PS, I like the guitar at the end.
@@maxmccain8950 Yeah, u right.. would prolly be a wicked snubby round🤔. Gonna have to get some now lol. Thank you🫵for watchin, I appreciate ya buddy!!.. Figured was a lil to quiet at the end of the videos🤙, Thanks again!!🍻
Great video! Thank you.
@@CharlesRyan-f3j Thank you!! Appreciate u taking the time to check it out!!🍻
I have switched over to the extreme defenders in my edc. I have yet to see a bad gel test. I’m convinced.
You could practically reload those bullets with how little deformation they had. I bet these would be way better than hollow points for winter carry.
I hate that underwood doesn’t load gold dots anymore. I did manage to stock up on them in 9mm before they stopped. The extreme defender performs extremely well regardless of caliber and they are surprisingly accurate out of mostly anything.
@@cecilwilliams8709 Nice.. I have a few boxes of the +p+ GD they were loading. Gonna have to do another video on em.. good stuff for sure.
AZA it doesn't look like tumbling in the first block...all the blooms are spiral, clean and striated. Tumbling produces a soft bubbly temporary stretch. Although these projectiles do sometimes tumble in clear ballistics gel due to it's consistency and flip around from bounce back at the end of the track.
Good test, AZ! The XD is my EDC choice, although I carry the 10mm 100gr bullet in my Glock 29. I asked Lehigh what the difference between the 68 and 90 gr bullets was, since performance difference between the two is minimal, including penetration. Their reply was that some firearms have a fairly large difference in point of aim/point of impact but otherwise, there is little difference between the two, as long as function was the same for both. My Glock 26 fires both bullets to the same POI at average combat distances, so I could use either one. Same for my Glock 29 and the 100 and 115 gr bullets. If this is the case for you the better choice would probably be the lighter bullet, since these bullets do depend on velocity to do their work. This also reduces recoil.
Since I carry the factory ammo (I simply cannot match their velocities!) my backup ammo is the 165 gr Speer Gold Dot, a bullet I have complete confidence in.
Cheers,
jc
Another video this week? Aren’t we lucky 😉 🎉🎉
@azairgunner I’d love to see this test repeated with (1) distance and separately with (2) barriers.
These rounds really do seem to have a permanent wound cavity that depends strongly on velocity…
… While the initial velocity of the lighter round is higher, I wonder how much more quickly it slows down due to air resistance over distance, and/or due to barrier penetration.
It’s not the typical combat distance for a handgun, but if someone’s needs to pull an Elisjsha Dicken, then that 40 yards distance is going to play a role.
Perhaps some or all of the following?
90gr vs 68gr, both in standard pressure loading for consistent chamber pressure.
1) 40 yards before reaching gel.
2) Penetrate car door before gel.
3) Two layers of drywall with a few inches of space in between, before gel (ie a house wall test).
4) Car windshield before gel.
Why standard pressure? I’m sure +p will do even more damage in a defensive encounter, but I think the degradation in performance (due to distance or barrier) will be non-linear with energy, and I’d rather see any effect more clearly rather than less clearly, for a *test* like this. Basically, IF the 68grain performance is degraded more, following a barrier or distance, than the 90grain performance is degraded, I want the test that’s going to show that most clearly, not a test that’s going to minimize the difference and make it harder to see. 😊
Thanks!!!!!
Ok this is a very good test because it shows the likelihood of getting straight line penetration is low with these. I don’t see a need to retest because it’s pretty definitive.
These won’t meet my needs.
The tracks were pretty straight, but angled downward. This probably means that he was either shooting slightly downward toward the block, or the table was tilted. In the other tests of these that I have seen, they track very straight and consistently get about 18” of penetration in gel.
It seems these rounds usually don't track straight, in gel anyway. It could possibly miss the vital organ you aimed at. They may have their purpose, but I'll stick with traditional lead core rounds. Good test, AZ. 👊👍
@@GreyShooter Thanks brotha appreciate ya!!🍻
I find these sorts of copper fluted rounds regularly end up backwards in gel. Doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence
They track very straight actually. The tracks are just angled downward, which probably means he was shooting slightly downward toward the block because it was a little lower than the gun.
The 9mm XD 68gr might have put the 9 as the best all round self defense and perhaps duty pistol. Now I wonder how the 30 Super Carry would do with some light XD bullets, would they be able to go 1500 fps?
Great test, I've been following your tests for a while now I appreciate everything you do! I've been carrying the 90gr +p in my edc for about a year now I can feel the weight difference compared to a 124. Seems like these should be just fine if I ever have to use them. Now you got me thinking if I should start carrying a traditional jhp again, seems to be your preference right now? I can see these lightweight loads being good for say in a backpack type gun setup and you want to save weight if you gotta carry a couple hundred rounds of this stuff with you.
The starburst pattern in the gel means you’re seeing proper disruption, not tumbling. They do often tumble at some point, but the major initial wound track is from the bullet doing what it’s intended and nothing else really makes that big and nasty of a cavity. I think the lowest weight and fastest speed for the cartridge is the way to go with these bullets. More impact velocity means more disruption, but maybe more importantly the lower weight projectiles have a higher stability factor so they track better through tissue for longer before they get wonky and tumble. I wouldn’t worry about not tracking straight in a two legged self defense ammo. All of our goodies are close to the surface. Now as a bear round, you may have curving before hitting vitals, but if you’re not hitting the head or CNS, you’re toast anyways and these bone agnostic bullets are going to do a lot better versus a thick bear skull than a jhp.
Those Lehigh bullets seam to get their disruption from tumbling more than flute design. Tumbling is nondeterministic compared to say an HST. The bullet path isn't straight when they tumble. If you're shooting barriers they might make sense but I'll stay with a good lead core hollow point. Thanks for the test ..
Love the content hope we can get those 9mm maker P-Rex rounds in a video
@@drewday6109 Thanks brotha!! Heck yeah that'd be awesome!! Sorry for the delayed response on email.. been so backed up, tryin to catch up. Appreciate ya!!🍻
Underwood make 9x25 Dillon with the 90 gr Xtreme Defender, that would be a great to see in a video
@@chrisdaniel1339 Unfortunately not anymore. Wish we were able to grab some before they got rid of it🫤.
@@AzAirgunner. Underwood dumped two of the previous Dillon loading and they are getting rid of the 40 Super once the loading listed is sold out. It is too bad they do not make a limited run of these unique cartridges two times a year to keep their customers happy.
Nice test! Have you tested the tumble up on impact ammo yet?
@@amc31b No sir not yet. And thank you, appreciate u checking it out!!
I would be happy to send you some to test but last time I tried to ship ammo USPS, UPS and FedEx all refused and told me only commercial accounts and FFL's can ship ammo.
It's starting to look like a dump field out there. Somebody needs to spend at least an hour cleaning some of that area up
@@quoththeraven7 💯. They destroyed it over the weekend. Sad.
I’ve seen so many shooting areas go the same way. Refrigerators, washing machines and even junk cars. And always, trash.
Trash-dumping like that will get it prohibited eventually. (For shooting, trespassing, etc.)
I despise people who litter like that. Not only does it look nasty, but they’ll use the litter as a way to ban firearms at those areas.
Canik would like to thank the Springfield XD 9 subcompact mod 2 for its design inspiration.
This is kind of off topic of this video at least but when are you going to do the 124 grain xtp from Underwood I was really hoping to see that one
@@peterkavourias286 Will be out Sunday.
Wish my mc9 would work 😭 on my second mc9 sent by canik and still out of battery. Soooo now it just sits in the safe 😂
Shocker
@ yeah no kidding
Went out of my comfort zone first time ever with handguns and got burned…twice 😂
I’ll stick with Glock / S&W
Yet my buddy has a canik and runs great. QC with all firearms manufactures is a joke nowadays. Biggest thing is and a knew better was never buy new first gen..wait until the second or third gen
@@Grizzlyman420 Yeaaahhhh been there when I first started. Glock is definitely the bell curve option, great for new owners, and masters usually come back around to it anyway, while the mainstream turn their nose at it.
Definitely hankering for a S&W M&P 2.0 Comp this Christmas. What did you snag for your S&W options?
@@nfaisnfgay the mc9 was supposed to be for my summer carry, I wanted something light for them hot days. I picked up a shield plus and it’s treated me very well. Winter time I stick with my Glock 29 10mm. 9mm Shield plus, M&P 2.0 40s&w, 9mm SVD-VE. That SVD was my first ever handgun so I keep it around plus I changed the trigger it works great. Also have a M&P sport 1&3 AR15 👍🏼
I’ve had really good luck with PSA as well. I have a Sabre AR with FN hammer forged chrome lined barrel and mannn that thing is nice! Also have a PSA GF5 AKM and PSA M4 all run great
Tumble City
🎶 🎶 👯♀️ 🎶 🎶
I think angry angrysheepdog9744 owes Gunner a new table. Swore up and down to me fluted bullets only tumble in clear gel.💔🤷♂️
If the presenter needs any help making these I’m also in AZ.
That’s a nasty looking wound channel!
Who’s buying this guy another table?? 🤨
@@50bmg. 😄😂
@ELOOCUY-k2f That would be great lol.
Ask Kentucky ballistics, I’m sure he will sell you one that’s “gently used” for a good price.