Preaching... I agree with all you said tbh... Wish they could bring all weapons inside 0.8-1.0 ttk to have some actual duels and to get more variety in load outs, get people using what they like instead of being forced to use outlier weapons to be able to compete
What happened to you running halo lobbies? It's always entertaining seeing "top" destiny pvpers get ran and stop playing actual competitive fps games. 😂
They do 100% cherry pick data to fit what they want it to reflect. Look at when they talked about how oppressive snipers were, they only gave the data WITH fusion rifles included, not stand alone sniper stats. That to me says the data didn't line up with the excuse they wanted to use so cherry picked it to make it fit the story.
I remember that and lol'd at it. I run sniper. Like, almost exclusively. I run them because the headshot feels so rewarding and they get me to focus on core PvP tactics. BUT! I'm almost always the only one. 9 out of 12 will be shottys, 2 fusions, and me with my sniper. Hilarious!
For me, it's officially jover at this point. I had a lot of fun with Destiny pvp over the past decade, but it doesn't feel like they have an artistic vision for the crucible, but are just constantly trying to put out fires without real goals.
After playing Black Ops 6, I don't think I could enjoy Destiny PvP again the way I used too. I just "see" all the bull crap with no filter, and that is just frustrating
Yeah you do make a really good point with it seeming to be that every action of the strike team is to "put out fires" instead of developing the crucible
It's not even about "artistic" vision per se but the utter lack of common sense. Buffing everything solves nothing and lowers an already low skill ceiling, and the very basic concept of risk-reward is completely wasted on the couple braincells they manage to rack up among all devs.
bungie 5 years ago: we're removing the wall hacks from sanguin alchemy, one eyed mask, and foe tracer. as its proven to be too strong in pvp and provide far to much value. bungie now: we're adding wall hacks back lol.
Never saw anyone using Foetracer and it's not like it mattered, a 2 second live ping doesnt do anything when everyone has radar and Lorentz gives you walls on random targets anyways 😭 Great work Bungie
To me it feels like part of the problem is Bungie has taken on the Sisyphean task of trying to please everybody when it comes to PvP but then end up pleasing no one, like a lot of the changes I've seen seem to be in direct response to vocal community feedback which is why I think we're starting to go in circles now. For example Special Ammo changes to the "1-1-1" system felt like they were in response to people being vocal about not having enough special ammo on the meter system that they didn't feel like running a special was worth it anymore and it was pushing the game back to double primary.
High impact pulses having SMG ttks at crazy range was balanced out by being 1. Clunky and 2. Unforgiving. The reason why they’ve grown so much stronger is because we’ve received absurd stat monsters with perks that increase forgiveness easily, removing the only downsides of using them. What you’re left with are smgs that can duel at twice the range of actual smgs and receive basically no flinch now.
This issue started since byound light when they buffed no time to explain aimassist and strafe speed that archetype has a ttk of .67 which is faster than something like ikelos smg with .73 like wtf
I’ll die on the hill that pulses ruined the game. The laning playstyle and passive ability spam when people come close is so frustrating. To be fair I will say that on the opposite spectrum, smgs will basically be the close range version of pulses. Nerf both just enough so there’s a trade off. And as annoying as it sounds, when HCs are meta, everything is viable
We have this issue with so many guns, so often though, this isn't new. Giving Precision Instrument to the best statted 120 in the game allowing it to have higher ease of use AND better stats than every other 120. Giving Target Lock to (at the time) the strongest archetype of SMG with one of the best stat packages of any weapon in its class. Giving Headseeker to pretty much every 340 Pulse Rifle allowing them to maintain 0.67 without 100% headshot accuracy. Personally I feel like every change Bungie makes is designed to squash any remaining skill gap in the game. There's a reason we've gone through an AR meta, into two SMG metas (900s, then 720s), into a 340 pulse meta, back into a brief AR meta (khvostov) and back into a 340 pulse meta. They consistently buff weapons with high ease of use because they only look at usage (despite saying that's not true) and see that weapons like Rose and Hawkmoon have high usage rates in "high skill lobbies" so they think they need to overcompensate the other weapons to compete with them, when in reality most of those weapons massively outclass 140 hand cannons already. There's a reason we've never had a 140 hand cannon meta (we did have a brief 150 meta, but never 140) and that's because Bungie saw that during that 150 meta SIX YEARS AGO that bad players weren't able to consistently hit 3 shots (despite the massive amounts of AA/bullet bend that hand cannons have) and they've never leaned back towards that.
0:29 I really like this opening that acknowledges what I think has been a longstanding issue for D2 ever since 3.0 Subclass updates, or Beyond Light The game is being developed in a way it never was prior to 3.0 updates, where the original synergistic & focused concepts for subclass trees (limited though they were) really did not translate to current D2, post-3.0 updates Like if you liked the way old top or bottom Arcstrider felt to play, that gameplay fantasy effectively no longer exists Things that worked well about older eras of D2 are misunderstood, forgotten, or lost on today’s updates and devs (latter is def largely cause of layoffs and bad management culture) This has left us with a sandbox full of clutter that works in PvE but ruins PvP, see: heal spam, radiant, etc-basically the fact we have constant access to annoying verbs/buffs/debuffs, things that break gameplay flow and alter TTKs There isn’t a holistic vision for PvP focused on making it as satisfying at possible anymore, coming from folks who know what that means and value it from past eras of this game and other great PvP FPSes Nobody is behind the wheel asking “does this feel fun” “does this make matches better or worse” “is this kit synergistic” “does this kit click such that you can just focus on your fights and enter flow state,” all we get anymore are just stat-tuning, looking at usage rate data, and reactive patches I’ve been sad watching this lack of vision demoralize the ever-shrinking Destiny PvP holdouts-the game is just an aimless object in motion, doing its best to coast on reputation and fundamental appeal, but every year losing more and more of what made past iterations/updates/sandboxes so well-liked
Beyond light release seemed like the end of the road for the game. I had switched to Halo 3 which just came to pc, and Splitgate. In the seasons after the game seemed like it had the potential to recover from stasis, but the .0 subclasses immediately reverted the game to being too annoying to play for more than a few matches every once in a while. The marketing and release cycle compels a complete disruption of the game every year for what amounts to slightly different ways of killing dregs.
@brawndo1255 yup this is real And the f’d up thing is recovery from Stasis was nearly complete and the 30th Anniv. sandbox was really solid, just for 3.0 to not only Stasis-style upend and disrupt the game like you said, but also in the process take away subclass kits that were fun and (mostly) balanced, along with some of their abilities and gameplay styles So whereas Stasis was an addition that disrupted the game, 3.0 was reworks, so all the downsides of something like Stasis but now you’re also losing things that used to work about the game in the past, you lose the gameplay loops of subclasses that used to be satisfying and synergistic
I keep saying that the last good season for pvp, in my opinion, was late seasosn 15(season of the lost)/30th anniversary, which was a point where, outside of ntte(which bungie could have tuned down as an outlier), you had a rather decent balance of what weapons you could use in terms of weapon variety. All of that ended with witch queen and light 3.0 heavily changing a lot of weapon balance whilst introducing ability spam 3.0 on void
I'm still upset bungo patched Lion Rampants' bug that allowed ADS with titans flying lift active. It was a perfect stealth utility buff to an old underused neutral gain exotic.
The only time I actually made a build and utilized it in PvP with some funky gun play and it worked because nobody expected the titan to be able to do that, and we had no ae benefits too man it was so good
All I gotta say is that bygones w\ lone wolf and high ground is way out of band! People were already complaining about 340s with a .67ttk, so Bungie's response was to reprise a pulse with double the aim assist with an even faster ttk and a faster 3rd burst. What's the thought process behind this decision? Its crazy!
@@ShaoShaoMienshao Yes, theyre nerfing it so that when you deal damage, it only activates high ground times 1. The problem is the only thing that changes is forgiveness. So at the end of the day, the damn thing still two bursts. These super fast unforgiving TTKs shouldn't be allowed to be a thing. I want ttks to be down in the 0.8 to 1.5 second mark, i think that ultimately leaves us in a place for fun and unique dueling that really focuses on skill.
These ttks shouldn't be a thing in guns with over 35m of range. A sidearm can kill at 0.7 an smg too. A pulse? without a dmg buff? Please..and I'm talking KILL perk not this bs HG. Scouts rifles should also get nerfed or Better yet rebalanced , there's no reason a gun being able to 0.8 from outside radar. Nerf their range down to 50m( still 10m over second best range with aggressive pulses) and reduce the flinch they take so they are less jarring to use without zen moment.@@turtle420.-. And I'm not saying scouts are broken their GamePlay loop simply shouldn't exist in d2 because it makes all big maps play like sht.
12:50 Yes, so much this. Please Bungie, STOP NERFING B AND C TIER SUBS CAUSE OF PRISMATIC. You can clearly tune Prismatic’s version of these abilities without touching the home sub’s version. DO THAT.
It’s the fact that we’ve gone from a no special in y1, to a special ammo pandemic, to a rewarding special system (meter was actually peak), back to a special pandemic because the devs cater to having everyone be able to have a 1.0 kd by shotty trading is crazy.
Starting out with 2 special was peak, they ruined crucible the moment they even touched special. If you were one of the people that was whining about that, use the damn special. Its not like everyone but you has it. Same thing with the crybabies whining for an ability spam nerf, ya’ll act like ya’ll are the only one in the lobby that doesn’t have the benefits everyone else does, all ya’ll could do is cry
Good video, but for me, Bungie has been getting lost in these spreadsheets. They are making meta changes on a 3 to 6 month timeline to freshen up the experience for seasonal players but it leaves crucible in this revolving door of iteration. I quit the game and moved on, because Destiny 2 isnt offering better experiences, it is offering a rotation of the same tired "adjustments" instead of settling on a vision to move the game forward. The thing I loved about D1 was that PvE and PvP were both important in the chase for cosmetics and loot. We also had memorable events like Crimson Doubles for Valentines and SRL but all of that is gone and now we just get shop updates and spreadsheet optimization instead of new PvP experiences. Destiny 2 lost what many found made its gameplay loop so special and devolved into a shop with dungeon/raids and a side of PvP.
I don’t play a ton of PvP, but the thing that confused me the most over the last 1-2 years was the hard pivot to “checkmate” rules, which re-emphasized primary-ammo gunfights with less special-ammo available, and slightly longer primary TTK. Then, following that shift, Bungie gradually walked those changes back, to the point where now the sandbox is essentially the same as it was before Checkmate was introduced. Somewhere during that time, Bungie also slightly increased Guardian HP, which in theory allows the developers a little more wiggle room for adjusting outlier TTK archetypes… but (unless we count the minor tweaks to Lightweight bows) we haven’t really seen this have impact on the sandbox.
Im'ma be real, I honestly think Prismatic should be disabled in the Crucible entirely. As for pulses, I'd just give them even more flinch, reduced aim assist and damage falloff to disincentivize backseat plinking.
@@TheMax107snipers weren’t in the same spot pulses are in right now. Snipers went from good to shit. Pulses would go from oppressive and overpowered, to balanced.
Another massive problem with the way they keep switching their vision on a whim is the lack of consistency you can FEEL. Everything that is fun leaves a feeling in the back of your mind that it won't last forever, which SUCKS. Whether it is 120 handcannons or special ammo or literally anything else. We all have that fun niche option that gets a massive buff for zero reason before being nerfed to irrelevancy. It is not fun.
This is a problem in PvE is well. We just got back a usable YAS. For how long? They literally almost entirely reverted the nerf so why did they do it to begin with?
@terribletimes902 YAS in PVP as well. I was using it before solar 3.0 and it was very strong, but clearly not THE meta. Them in come massive buffs, then it is made a worthless exotic moments after.
Haven't played in forever but still check in on the homies. I hope they find a way to make you enjoy it again. Game isn't for me anymore. Buff something for a few months, nerf it. Buff something else. Repeat. Boring.
I’ve been telling my friends that radar shouldn’t exist. You can’t flank unless you want 3+ people ready to gun you down in that lane, this forces more hand holding and a passive “you push first playstyle” which incentivizes the 340 usage
@@foxwildcard130 radar makes fps games much sweatier. more about reaction speed. the core of fps multiplayer isn't about being faster it's about being able to predict and surprise and outthink. that's all the fun stuff. radar takes that away.
@@championreddI think he means he wants dedicated PvP devs. While I’m sure the strike team is made up of devs it seems it’s mostly their secondary role. Eg. A weapons team person on the PvP strike team, I’m sure most of their focus goes to designing weapons..
People forget about the across the board stability and recoil improvements that were added to pulses (and others) years ago. Pulses have almost no recoil. They all essentially snap right back to the head without having to compensate. This has made guns like graviton lance and bygones easy to use. bygones kicked way more back when it first was released. Pulse are just super easy to use, especially on controller. It isnt long range engagements thats the problem in PvP, its dick holding. You will never see players challenge themselves to venture out and ego a 1v1 becuase they know they'll never get it. And yeah, P{rismatic is a HUGE issue.
Im still mad with the whole ammo situation I really thought they were cooking when they introduced the special ammo bar then also keeping ammo beyond death but always spawning with at least 1 kill worth of special ammo was such a fair system. Now it feels like ammo is literally everywhere!! It's so annoying
I just think they haven’t got a clue anymore. I believe 340’s should have a harder kick for being a burst fire. This would force better gun skill to get the easy 0.6 ttk.
All the high impact guns in d2 need actual kick. 120 hc are just as laser accurate as precision hcs. Same as pulses. Some of these high impact guns reach 100 recoil direction and should never be able to.
At this point I think I enjoy talking about PvP over actually playing PvP. Some days I think Bungie actually hates HC users like me... 140's are so far out of the Meta the last time they were viable my Mother was in high-school. Luna's and what they did with Mag-Howl is unforgivable, my fav gun of all time and it's not even close... so here is my opinion the the Mission Statement for the Sandbox team... obviously my opinion.... but the Sandbox is 100% a shell game: The 8 rules of Sandbox. (inspired by Fight Club obv.) 1. The first rule of Sandbox is: There is no balance in the Sandbox. 2. The second rule of Sandbox is: There is NO BALANCE in the Sandbox. 3. The third rule of Sandbox is: If someone heals (mid-fight), teleports, rubberbands or takes no damage, it's ok because it's not an eSport... so meh. 4. The fourth rule of Sandbox: Only 2 abilities per engagement. 5. The fifth rule of Sandbox: Only META builds win. 6. The sixth rule of Sandbox: No AE, no flinch(jk). 7. The eighth rule of Sandbox: If this is your first time in the Sandbox, you have to suffer. Watched you content for years Mr Drewsky, always love to hear your commentary, cheers!
I’m glad you mentioned the data is not being used to tell stories. I think that’s something a lot of people don’t realize when it comes to game development is that the bottom line is the user experience and the data is used to validate the user experience which in itself is a story and not just a statistic.
I thought I would be playing trials on Jav-4 with my god roll Adept Summoner... lasted only 2-3 games before realizing how shit it was in the ''peak and hide'' meta. Went flawless with guess what? High ground bygones.
Why are they struggling so much? They had perfected it in D1. Garbage low effort ability spam has ruines pvp. Why shoot when I can have a no aim turret do some of the job for me? How about Shield on demand? On demand Invisibility, melee and a grenade all in under half a second . Stasis ruined pvp for me and it has been downhill ever since. My solution? Only select subclasses available in pvp. Things that allow fast mobility but low ability spam and def NO garbo abilities like the ones I mentioned. No freeze or slows . Nothing to stop the flow of combat.
The sad part is that during peak stasis meta with players being frozen more easily and way longer than these days, pvp still played faster than this current re-enactment of the civil war with firing lines in the back of the map every match.
Bungie is never going to acknowledge they're ever wrong, their ego couldn't handle it, in the same breath, they are afraid of ANY weapon that is a high skill expression weapon, look at how they nerfed thorn after only ONE WEEK of it getting its catalyst, it wasn't even strong?? But because it was a HC they nerfed it faster than any other weapon has ever been nerfed in the history of this game, when it's always expected for a gun to see high usages anytime they release a catalyst for it, like, that's literally the point? You NEED to use it to unlock it lmao but they used its inflated high usage as a excuse to nerf it when they seem to always take months to nerf any actual problematic weapons that the player base complains about, simply put, bungie literally only want guns that are low skill friendly and take the wielder zero skill and zero brain power to use and to be affective with.
I feel like the strike team is stuck between a rock and a hard place with the dwindling PvP playerbase shouting for nerfs on certain things (storms edge) but being relatively ok with others (high ground). If they don’t adjust according to the community they lose more players but at the cost of overall balance. This could also explain the teams seemingly disingenuous justifications based on data.
I hated checkmate so much that i quit playing. Sitting in the back with a pulse and two buddies just waiting was worse than sliding around with shotguns, evey checkmate match I got into was 3 mid-long range users, sitting on a rift waiting.
@ but special weapons aren’t just stronger, they over power most even weapons including heavy weapons. Most heavy weapons require a headshot or perfect timing. Special weapons have far more ammo than heavy & they one hit kill to the body and have insane range. Green ammo is all over the place in PvP
@@iwaskillcam1434 i agree that there is too much special ammo available, hence why you often get killed by a shotgun or fusion etc but they are not stronger than heavy weapons. Balancing special weapons has been the biggest problem for bungie since 2014 and it’s not going to change. The intention is that they are stronger than a primary but can be used far less frequently, which obviously isn’t the case. During the all the special testing in checkmate over the last year, the meter system was by far the most enjoyed by the community and yet they removed it for 1-1-1. They simply cannot balance the game.
Really never touched PvP unless there was something I need for it. Always play off meta with lumina and a twin fire gl. I have fun, but I stop playing the moment I see sweats in any capacity. I don't feel like I have any reason to improve, as I'm still getting my engrams and if something is in trials I usually skip it and wait till we get something that is basically the same thing (if not better). I think it might be overall under the umbrella of me losing interest in PvP games (playing against sweats, repetitive metas, K.D. obsession, and toxicity) but it feels to me that the crucible will always feel like a shallow arcadey mess that is only ever fun when you simply don't care about winning.
For me, it's the fact that melee hit detection has been getting noticeably worse and melee wiffs are becoming for common. It's gotten to the point where Titan is practically unplayable even though they're the class that's entirely around meleeing. Even in PVE, it's affected Tcrash. You can't even direct hit bosses half the time and just go right through them. Like, when your core mechanics of the game aren't working properly for YEARS, wtf are you even doing?
Every since the health overhaul a year or so ago I stopped pvp outright I went from putting tens of hour every trials weekend to completely dropping the mode. When they changed all the values it felt like nothing was truly being changed just the numbers your seeing but with how horrendous the rollout was with all the oversites on what changed and what didn’t with all the special weapon shenanigans, and it seemed that the things that were way out band were being even more highlighted It’s a shame to see the sandbox that made destiny so good seems to be just tinkered with Willy nilly by people that don’t understand what is needed
I truely wonder who you'd ask, who played during 30th anni, and now, would tell you pvp is in a better, more enjoyable state now. Over 4-5 years, almost every facet of pvp, from core identify, loot, weapon meta, ability meta, long standing outliers, and negative effects like wallhacks and on demand HP that everyone somehow unlearns and remembers is unfun, is at all time lows, despite having years to itterate on a better system. It concerns me most, is the lack of transparency with the community, on what they're able to do technically, what they're allowed to do under direction of their higher ups, and what decision making goes into changes. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see upcoming changes they have prepared, and foresee what good or bad can come of it, and what they clearly missed on. These types of conversations, ideally ones that aren't 'we wish we could but nope', but ones that actually lead to better changes, need to happen, and soon
I don't think the "crucible strike team" ever set foot in the crucible with the rest of us and let's not kid ourselves, those Bungie employees that do are not very good at all.
Hadn't played pvp for a while and have been jumping into trials the past couple weeks for some weapon rolls. Your thesis describes my experience in a way that I couldn't quite put together after a long break from PvP. You just cannot peek anything nowaday without getting immediately melted- even a flank is so easily countered. I'm not a great player, but every play session I had to spend 30 minutes learning to play with the utmost conservative posture. Trials of course brings out the worst in every meta, so at least low level comp (my skill) is dynamic. Regardless, and most importantly, it's great to see you post. I along with others miss your voice, insight, and theory crafting and execution thereof.
All i know is the better i get the less fun i have because the better i get the more i realise how miniscule the physical counterplay to most of the bs this game has. I went from a 0.8 in Forsaken to coming back late BL getting to 1.2 and then coming back late WQ being a 1.5 that I kept playing till today at over 2kd consistently and i die to the same exact bs i died even when i was a 0.8. The only difference is that i rarely die to shotguns now but that's because shotguns are terrible compared to forsaken. Also matchmaking is blatantly rigged if you are anywhere over 1.4kd like you can physically see the difference in teammates every game after you get a W in non trials gamemodes.😂 We playing CoD matchmaking but unlike cods the game is unbalanced as f.
Never die to shotguns? U must not ever play 6v6. I'm a pretty decent player and always play solo and 6v6 pvp and the only specials I ever die to are shotguns. 99% of the time I die to a special it's a shotgun cause with all these small maps and 6 opponents running around at the speed of light with one hit kill no aim weapons like shotties are impossible to stop entirely especially being a solo player. I engage in lots of primary gun battles and get shot in the back , side everywhere with a slide shotgun ape that proceeds to run light speed circles around the small map catching people actually using primaries and getting cheap and easy kills. There a reason 90% of special kills in crucible are by shotguns. They're brain dead , no skill weapons in 6's. Who snipes anymore with flinch that sends your reticle to the moon ? So much easier to run around like a headless chicken , slide and press a button for an instant easy kill and then being right there to pick up more shotty ammo to do the same thing to the next person.
I never thought about it but you are spot on about high impact weapons in general being overpowered and not encouraging a more "fun" run and gun mid range to low range engagement playground.
Currently, high ground has 3 stacks. You instantly get 3 stacks when shooting from “high ground” and you get 2 stacks when getting a guardian kill. The nerf makes it so that you only get 1 stack from shooting from “high ground”. Presumably, 1 stack is not enough to 2 burst in PvP, but we don’t know this, as it’s currently impossible to get only 1 stack of high ground in PvP, only 2 or 3 stacks. So we will see
Adaptive pulses benefit the most from the smallest possible dmg buffs. At 5%, it will still 2 burst but with absolutely no forgiveness or extra range beyond falloff.
@@rushsoccer1355I mean people aren’t crying about radiant hunter abusing radiant(10% dmg buff) and adaptive architecture as a whole they can look it with frostees and loop it infinite well
I pair bakris with syncopation and get 2 bursts all the time and bakris is 6% i think? I would imagine 1 stack of high ground will also allow 2 burst if it's 5%
Awesome listen, couldnt agree more with the high impact pulses. Hope this vid reaches bungie and they have the opportunity to consider it, it echoes my experiences very accurately. I am at the point where i think headseeker needs a nerf, it makes these pulses so forgiving
I think high impact pulse rifles might be due for a stability or aim assist rebalance (Elsie’s in particular). The two burst is pretty easy to achieve at pretty ridiculous ranges. High impacts should need higher stability to lock in the two burst but should come at the cost of other stats like range or handling.
Honestly I feel like the best middle ground to nerf high impact pulses would be to nerf their rpm by such a slight amount so that the ttk goes from a 0.67 to a 0.73. That would make the 2 burst the same ttk as an aggressive frame pulse (4 shot burst pulses) so that u can have a trade off for both 2 burst pulses. Also it would give A LOT of mid range primaries room to breath a bit more and maybe catch the high impact user lackin if they are quick enough. Im so glad there bringing back the 2c1b for 120’s cuz there SHOULD be a slower, more recoil lower handling arcetype of hc that can do that and the 120’s are LITERALLY that. Im on ps5 and pulses can out peak shot a hc if they keep bursting the corner where the hc is trying to peak so personally I feel like the “hc r the best peak guns” is still tru but not as far of a gap as previously interpreted in the past. There so close to what they can both do peak shooting wise that I just dont see the evidence anymore. Thats y 120’s and 140’s r very balanced imo even with the 120 “buff” when its really just returning to what they SHOULD be doing imo. Really good points I agree with like 95% of this vid. 😂🎉
Prismatic was the most short sighted idea ever conceived by bungie and has ruined the balance of pve and pvp entirely, and pretty much permanently. 340s are only an issue because of abilities, literally listen to and watch this clip 8:00 - team mate holds the angle with a 340 and as soon as they get pushed is able to use a one shot, AoE ability 3 times! And then there’s diamond lance, knockout, shiver strike (what the hell was that buff?) smoke bombs, clones etc This is why sidearms and SMGs are dead, not because 340s have a fast and easy ttk.
NGL, I'd love to see how they analyze their data. They frequently refer to usage rates, but do they account for weights within skill brackets? Lower brackets don't use the high impact pulses as much, leaning more on the easier-to-use adaptives even with the worse ttk (with the exception of high ground obv). As a stats-minded person, i really want to see if they perform any sort of analysis, or just read the raw numbers.
It’s nice to see that my many month hiatus hasn’t left me too far behind in the meta. All the time I’ve saved not having to grind seasons and new content has been a panacea for the soul.
I’ve been saying for a long time. There needs to be more pros and cons to abilities and strong perks. One idea I had was if the enemy destroyed your threaded specter that they can gain kill clip from it. Like how if you destroy a stasis turret you can get kill clip.
Cqc engagements with primaries are harder and yet also less rewarding, and yet they decided to nerf smgs like crazy without touching pulses and hand cannons after immortal dropped
Bungie once said they balanced the sandbox around 140s... yet trying to use one makes you put yourself at a disadvantage, even with most exotics these days and now they want to balance around the very outliers they created?!? But Mag Howl got changed and Lunas could not come back in it's og state because it would be "too powerful" because of a 0.67 ttk.... cue Elsies, Messenger, NTTE, etc. As for favouritism: Just listen to the weapon developer in the last Bungie stream. It becomes quite clear he loves using pulses. Surprise, surprise.
solution for special usage. Don't nerf special ammo cause it's fun using specials. Just make them more high risk high reward weapons. They already did it to snipers by making them flinch to the moon by even getting hit by the weakest impact guns in the game. Rarely anyone chooses to snipe anymore cause it's HIGH RISK. How bout giving shotties and fusions the same treatment now?! Maybe make carrying a shotgun feel heavy and sluggish so it slows your movement more than when carrying a primary and maybe making fusions much harder to control their recoil to land enough bolts or severely cutting down their range? Easy as that and things will be more balanced and people will actually have their primaries out more. As I said before, snipers are hardly used cause of their flinch penalties and the same will happen to shotties and fusions if their movement and stability and or range get penalized
I used to be a destiny pvp guy and for the most part I still love the pvp, the ttk and ability play are just so unique. Despite that there's two things stopping me from playing pvp right now in high impact pulses and the special ammo economy. I don't see any reason a longer range weapon should be able to not only peak fire better than hand cannons, but get a better ttk than a lot of smgs. The special ammo economy causes the match to start with special, crates give special without actually earning it, and losing special when dying pushes people to play like apes or camp with snipers instead of saving it and meshing it into their primary play.
You can not remove gamblers dodge and multi charge abilities without completely destroying a majority of builds in pve. As much as pvp players hate to admit it, pve is WAAAAY more important than pvp and absolutely gutting all builds for pvp balance when pvp is largely ignored by Bungie is a terrible idea. So, in terms of gamblers dodge specifically, that's just gonna be something you have to get over, it isn't going anywhere. Maybe Bungie could find a way to only allow 1 charge on other abilities in pvp only, but if not, then that's also something we'll have to get over. And nerfing cooldowns so much you might as well only have 1 would also be a bad idea unless it's pvp only as well. I really don't have any idea what they could do without severely negatively affecting the majority of the game, that being pve, so it also may just be something we have to deal with going forward.
It's currently filled with cheaters, mostly wallhackers tbh, once there are dedicated servers, that would mostly dissapear. I doubt they would invest, but since that sh*t that never launched got canned, maybe they got no choice. Let's hope.
I haven't played trials since they added prismatic. I remember the last time I enjoyed trials was when guardian games was up. Where the most egregious thing was strand hunter with conditional and void titans. Abilities had to be used smartly and you could have rounds where no one had any special or abilities and that was so fun. It was just your gun and your wits.
This PvP dev team man. I don't even know where to begin. I don't want to be malicious to the developers, but how can they be so disconnected from the community? I do not understand their goals for PvP anymore. They outlined clear and ambitious goals for PvP in March, received largely universal praise, and proceeded to backtrack almost every one of their newly outlined goals. I'm sorry, the devs have failed the dedicated PvP community. Once again, they have completely lost my trust. I no longer believe in the PvP dev team and no longer think they are capable of making the changes the game needs
I think your missing the big picture, they created the high ground bygones monster purposely to re populate gambit and it worked. I reset my gambit rank 5 times already coming from 0-1 the past seasons. Sometimes you need to have a broken carrot at the end of the stick to chase man. Another example the comp shot gun I am in their every week again trying to grind that perfect lone wolf closing time roll. I say let them cook and let's actually have fun again.
A big issue I don’t see anyone talking about is that there’s no way to nerf prismatic without also nerfing the original subclasses. Sure you can hit ability cd’s but at that point prismatic is always gonna either be meta or useless without any meaningful inbetween. I think the only option at this point is to just disable prismatic in pvp entirely (or maybe just in comp and trials) until bungie figures out a way for prismatic to exist in pvp while leaving sufficient room to breathe for the OG subclasses. Also, 340 pulses have to have a decrease in fire rate, it’s insane that they’ve been this strong for this long and bungie just can’t accept the fact that it is an inherently broken design that can’t be balanced with its current damage profile. Imagine combining the range and peek shotting of a 120 hc with the TTK of an smg. That’s a 340 pulse.
Too many cheaters ruining PC PVP lobbies, literally every other match and sometimes every match I play there is a aimbot cheater in the lobby (sometimes even the super hackers with infinite supers and what not). I heard that there are people using things like Cronus on console as well unfortunately, so until these issues are fixed, I'll be avoiding online pvp gaming in general because it's rampant in the industry. I'm not the best player in the world but I do have an overall 1.9 KD so a bit above average.
I hope they revert the changes to pre final shape. This is just a pain right now. Numbers don t lie. I mean precision emphasis on a game plagued by lags is borderline insanity ...
I gave up on PvP: - In Beyond Light, they nerfed Stasis every single season, so the next one they add a new Aspect and Fragments that nullify the previous nerf. - They added Labs for "testing" the Dominion game mode who nobody asked and nobody liked, and they forced as the only game mode available for Trials, forcing a super meta for almost 3 years. - Since the introduction of Target Lock, SMGs were stupidly strong because of it. Solution? Over a year, they nerfed SMGs and they were still strong. At last they nerf Target Lock and now SMGs are horrible in PvE and struggle in PvP. - In a podcast, they tease a buff to Graviton Lance. They were asked if the buff was too strong to consider lower it down in order to no break PvP. The answer? I quoute: "Graviton Lance won't be meta due to Revision Zero double-burst mode isn't meta". What happened next? It was meta. - Swarm + Smoke is still too strong. They decided to nerf Swarm when the main issue in fact is Smoke Bomb due to its ability to: slow, blind, weaken and radar manipulation. Those are 4 key words on a single ability. - Remember that time when One-Eyed Mask used to grant wallhacks? They removed it and changed it to just highlight. Knucklehead Radar? Oh yeah, they just lower the timer of the wall hacks but still grants enhanced dmg to secure kills. - They tested over 6 months an ammo system just to roll it back in less than 3 months. - PvP used to be fun. Since the addition to SBMM it went worse, specially Iron Banner. The problem is not SBMM, because when it works it could be useful, but oh god: their SBMM is horrendous. - Competitive used to have competitive game modes. Now, we have game modes that are not competitive enough (Clash) or grant a massive advantage to a team in a RNG system due to zones. At this point they need to give full support to PvP if they really care, because giving all the stuff to PvE and a little bit of attention to PvP doesn't work.
As someone who recently came back to the game from a long break. I will have to say holy shit, knockout, diamond lance, void arsenal and heavy machineguns is oppresive to go against. I am so tired. Also Prismatic is just way too good, why use other subclasses when it has all the best from every subclass. That was always going to happen with this subclass, but they still made it.
This whole meta is awful. SMGs and sidearms are dead in the dirt, completely shutting down any close range duels. All you get when you run these is fusions/slugs/ability spam. Compressing smgs range over the years has killed them apart form the ones that can hit 100 range.
SMGs and sidearms are fine IMO. However, I totally agree that fusions and shotties have ALWAYS been WAY overpowered in PvP. There should be NO low skill one shot weapons in PvP, and they have way too much range. The other issue is Autos are hitting too hard and really aren’t that different from SMGs up close but offer way more range. So on a per engagement basis a pulse/auto + shotty/fusion is obviously the way to go. Get rid of none precision one shot kills. Another problem, abilities are way out of control. So unless you have a one shot kill weapon, you’re going to killed by one or nuked with abilities.
@itshadouken They really aren't fine right now, though. A lot of that is the strength of shotguns, fusions, and prismatic (Hunter mainly), though. Smgs simply offer no strong benefits to be chosen over a 140, a 600 auto, or a pulse. They have mediocre ttks nowadays, low ease of use, and no forgiveness outside of range falloff.
@@ianmills6260 nah, SMGs being meta is shittier than pulse rifles. When the sandbox was balanced around hand cannons the games was healthy and that is just a fact
At this point just do the obvious thing. 1. Make a lightless slayer playlist. 2. Remove control as the default and put in a standard slayer playlist. 3. Make a blue gear only list or perhaps all white gear. These are just ideas but change some shit up. This is like going to a restaurant and the chef only makes one mediocre item ever and then complains when people leave of boredom. Really though nothing going to be done, pvp is dead and it will probably stay that way.
Identity crisis is certainly a good word for it. I quit playing a while ago cause I just didn't want to play anymore, in large part due to PvP just being unfun. There have been tons of changes since then, but no real goal. Checkmate was something at least, a framework of some sorts and Bungie probably had an idea brewing there. But every balance change since it was scrapped seems like damage control or at worst it just feels random. I hope Bungie has some sort of goal in mind, or at the very least gets one. I don't care what the goal would be or why they'd choose it, a direction would be nice.
Can you make a video on where to find key exotics people should strive for? I am a new player to destiny, I have a couple of exotics, but I have no idea where to look because a lot of peoples videos are outdated. The exotic I’m currently looking for is the mask of Bakris.
Since its inception I have not put down bygons out law kill clip and it’s been OP… people would make fun of me for “living in the past” but the only time I would ever put it down was in trials because I had to….. they can “nerf” that perk I’ll be fine hahah
I definitely agree with a lot of what you’re saying. I think the issue for me is while you’re advocating for diversity in the meta with things like other sub archetypes of pulse, 140 hand cannons, and scouts, the majority of the community, just wants 120 and 140 hand cannons to be the only thing that defines the meta. There’s no diversity in destiny the majority of the time and I think in response to feedback, Bungie tipped the scale too far the other way of too fast and put it to a brisk crawl because abilities make matches fast but pulses like Elsie’s make the lane duels the only way to win. But the majority of the community if Elsie’s does get nerfed is just going to default to hand cannons rather than advocating for a diverse sandbox
Here are my thoughts on some recent changes & feelings I've had towards the last little while in PvP. Hope it was worth sharing
Happy to see your upload
hit the nail on the head with this one.
Honestly one of the best thought out destiny videos i've seen in a LONG time.
Preaching... I agree with all you said tbh...
Wish they could bring all weapons inside 0.8-1.0 ttk to have some actual duels and to get more variety in load outs, get people using what they like instead of being forced to use outlier weapons to be able to compete
What happened to you running halo lobbies? It's always entertaining seeing "top" destiny pvpers get ran and stop playing actual competitive fps games. 😂
dont forget the 6+ months of checkmate testing just to go back to special ammo jousting.
shit blows my mind. what a joke of a company
I haven’t played PvP since lightfall, what do you mean? Do you spawn in with special every life again
@@TheCocomungesyeah and if you kill with a primary, you get special and ammo crates everywhere
Fuck special jousting, load into a 6v6 match and 4/5 engagements in the match someone is throwing an ability before even thinking about shooting
I think if they removed the radar special and ability spam wouldn’t be as oppressive. It’s only so oppressive because everyone knows where everyone is
They do 100% cherry pick data to fit what they want it to reflect. Look at when they talked about how oppressive snipers were, they only gave the data WITH fusion rifles included, not stand alone sniper stats. That to me says the data didn't line up with the excuse they wanted to use so cherry picked it to make it fit the story.
I remember that and lol'd at it.
I run sniper. Like, almost exclusively. I run them because the headshot feels so rewarding and they get me to focus on core PvP tactics. BUT! I'm almost always the only one. 9 out of 12 will be shottys, 2 fusions, and me with my sniper.
Hilarious!
For me, it's officially jover at this point. I had a lot of fun with Destiny pvp over the past decade, but it doesn't feel like they have an artistic vision for the crucible, but are just constantly trying to put out fires without real goals.
After playing Black Ops 6, I don't think I could enjoy Destiny PvP again the way I used too. I just "see" all the bull crap with no filter, and that is just frustrating
@@SpaghettiTopbo6 pvp mid af😂
@@championreddWeird way to spell Destiny
Yeah you do make a really good point with it seeming to be that every action of the strike team is to "put out fires" instead of developing the crucible
It's not even about "artistic" vision per se but the utter lack of common sense. Buffing everything solves nothing and lowers an already low skill ceiling, and the very basic concept of risk-reward is completely wasted on the couple braincells they manage to rack up among all devs.
Abilities are driving the car, gunplay is tied up and locked in the trunk while the car is being driven off a cliff
i feel like ever since stasis the meta has just been variations of people throwing diarrhea at each other instead of using their weapons.
bungie 5 years ago: we're removing the wall hacks from sanguin alchemy, one eyed mask, and foe tracer. as its proven to be too strong in pvp and provide far to much value.
bungie now: we're adding wall hacks back lol.
Never saw anyone using Foetracer and it's not like it mattered, a 2 second live ping doesnt do anything when everyone has radar and Lorentz gives you walls on random targets anyways 😭
Great work Bungie
@@InterxectionLorentz does not give walls in pvp
@@Manstrualit used to be
@@Viperacrx600 for like the first week lol
foetracer never lost its wallhacks when everything else did tourist, when it "lost" them it was because they combined it with knucklehead
To me it feels like part of the problem is Bungie has taken on the Sisyphean task of trying to please everybody when it comes to PvP but then end up pleasing no one, like a lot of the changes I've seen seem to be in direct response to vocal community feedback which is why I think we're starting to go in circles now.
For example Special Ammo changes to the "1-1-1" system felt like they were in response to people being vocal about not having enough special ammo on the meter system that they didn't feel like running a special was worth it anymore and it was pushing the game back to double primary.
This. Everyone is always pissed no matter what.
High impact pulses having SMG ttks at crazy range was balanced out by being 1. Clunky and 2. Unforgiving. The reason why they’ve grown so much stronger is because we’ve received absurd stat monsters with perks that increase forgiveness easily, removing the only downsides of using them. What you’re left with are smgs that can duel at twice the range of actual smgs and receive basically no flinch now.
This issue started since byound light when they buffed no time to explain aimassist and strafe speed that archetype has a ttk of .67 which is faster than something like ikelos smg with .73 like wtf
@ yep, no time was meta because of how broken its stats were, and now we have multiple choices that are the same or even easier to use. It’s stupid.
I’ll die on the hill that pulses ruined the game. The laning playstyle and passive ability spam when people come close is so frustrating. To be fair I will say that on the opposite spectrum, smgs will basically be the close range version of pulses. Nerf both just enough so there’s a trade off. And as annoying as it sounds, when HCs are meta, everything is viable
We have this issue with so many guns, so often though, this isn't new.
Giving Precision Instrument to the best statted 120 in the game allowing it to have higher ease of use AND better stats than every other 120. Giving Target Lock to (at the time) the strongest archetype of SMG with one of the best stat packages of any weapon in its class. Giving Headseeker to pretty much every 340 Pulse Rifle allowing them to maintain 0.67 without 100% headshot accuracy.
Personally I feel like every change Bungie makes is designed to squash any remaining skill gap in the game. There's a reason we've gone through an AR meta, into two SMG metas (900s, then 720s), into a 340 pulse meta, back into a brief AR meta (khvostov) and back into a 340 pulse meta. They consistently buff weapons with high ease of use because they only look at usage (despite saying that's not true) and see that weapons like Rose and Hawkmoon have high usage rates in "high skill lobbies" so they think they need to overcompensate the other weapons to compete with them, when in reality most of those weapons massively outclass 140 hand cannons already.
There's a reason we've never had a 140 hand cannon meta (we did have a brief 150 meta, but never 140) and that's because Bungie saw that during that 150 meta SIX YEARS AGO that bad players weren't able to consistently hit 3 shots (despite the massive amounts of AA/bullet bend that hand cannons have) and they've never leaned back towards that.
@@groovydolph Pulses were fine back in Forsaken, before we got the stat monsters. I loved my old claw of the wolf from Iron Banner
0:29 I really like this opening that acknowledges what I think has been a longstanding issue for D2 ever since 3.0 Subclass updates, or Beyond Light
The game is being developed in a way it never was prior to 3.0 updates, where the original synergistic & focused concepts for subclass trees (limited though they were) really did not translate to current D2, post-3.0 updates
Like if you liked the way old top or bottom Arcstrider felt to play, that gameplay fantasy effectively no longer exists
Things that worked well about older eras of D2 are misunderstood, forgotten, or lost on today’s updates and devs (latter is def largely cause of layoffs and bad management culture)
This has left us with a sandbox full of clutter that works in PvE but ruins PvP, see: heal spam, radiant, etc-basically the fact we have constant access to annoying verbs/buffs/debuffs, things that break gameplay flow and alter TTKs
There isn’t a holistic vision for PvP focused on making it as satisfying at possible anymore, coming from folks who know what that means and value it from past eras of this game and other great PvP FPSes
Nobody is behind the wheel asking “does this feel fun” “does this make matches better or worse” “is this kit synergistic” “does this kit click such that you can just focus on your fights and enter flow state,” all we get anymore are just stat-tuning, looking at usage rate data, and reactive patches
I’ve been sad watching this lack of vision demoralize the ever-shrinking Destiny PvP holdouts-the game is just an aimless object in motion, doing its best to coast on reputation and fundamental appeal, but every year losing more and more of what made past iterations/updates/sandboxes so well-liked
Beyond light release seemed like the end of the road for the game. I had switched to Halo 3 which just came to pc, and Splitgate. In the seasons after the game seemed like it had the potential to recover from stasis, but the .0 subclasses immediately reverted the game to being too annoying to play for more than a few matches every once in a while. The marketing and release cycle compels a complete disruption of the game every year for what amounts to slightly different ways of killing dregs.
@brawndo1255 yup this is real
And the f’d up thing is recovery from Stasis was nearly complete and the 30th Anniv. sandbox was really solid, just for 3.0 to not only Stasis-style upend and disrupt the game like you said, but also in the process take away subclass kits that were fun and (mostly) balanced, along with some of their abilities and gameplay styles
So whereas Stasis was an addition that disrupted the game, 3.0 was reworks, so all the downsides of something like Stasis but now you’re also losing things that used to work about the game in the past, you lose the gameplay loops of subclasses that used to be satisfying and synergistic
I don't think bungie devs even play pvp.
Don't blame them, I wouldn't want to either
They don’t
They don't even play the game
Definitely not lol
I keep saying that the last good season for pvp, in my opinion, was late seasosn 15(season of the lost)/30th anniversary, which was a point where, outside of ntte(which bungie could have tuned down as an outlier), you had a rather decent balance of what weapons you could use in terms of weapon variety. All of that ended with witch queen and light 3.0 heavily changing a lot of weapon balance whilst introducing ability spam 3.0 on void
I'm still upset bungo patched Lion Rampants' bug that allowed ADS with titans flying lift active. It was a perfect stealth utility buff to an old underused neutral gain exotic.
The only time I actually made a build and utilized it in PvP with some funky gun play and it worked because nobody expected the titan to be able to do that, and we had no ae benefits too man it was so good
All I gotta say is that bygones w\ lone wolf and high ground is way out of band! People were already complaining about 340s with a .67ttk, so Bungie's response was to reprise a pulse with double the aim assist with an even faster ttk and a faster 3rd burst. What's the thought process behind this decision? Its crazy!
I don't think aa matters that much on stuff like pulses but zen, lone wolf, even none, just high ground is too strong.
Didn't they say a High Ground nerf is incoming a TWID or two ago?
@@ShaoShaoMienshao Yes, theyre nerfing it so that when you deal damage, it only activates high ground times 1. The problem is the only thing that changes is forgiveness. So at the end of the day, the damn thing still two bursts. These super fast unforgiving TTKs shouldn't be allowed to be a thing. I want ttks to be down in the 0.8 to 1.5 second mark, i think that ultimately leaves us in a place for fun and unique dueling that really focuses on skill.
@@ShaoShaoMienshao It still 2 bursts with high ground just up to like 8 resil or 9 instead of all
These ttks shouldn't be a thing in guns with over 35m of range.
A sidearm can kill at 0.7 an smg too.
A pulse? without a dmg buff? Please..and I'm talking KILL perk not this bs HG.
Scouts rifles should also get nerfed or Better yet rebalanced , there's no reason a gun being able to 0.8 from outside radar.
Nerf their range down to 50m( still 10m over second best range with aggressive pulses) and reduce the flinch they take so they are less jarring to use without zen moment.@@turtle420.-.
And I'm not saying scouts are broken their GamePlay loop simply shouldn't exist in d2 because it makes all big maps play like sht.
12:50 Yes, so much this. Please Bungie, STOP NERFING B AND C TIER SUBS CAUSE OF PRISMATIC. You can clearly tune Prismatic’s version of these abilities without touching the home sub’s version. DO THAT.
It’s the fact that we’ve gone from a no special in y1, to a special ammo pandemic, to a rewarding special system (meter was actually peak), back to a special pandemic because the devs cater to having everyone be able to have a 1.0 kd by shotty trading is crazy.
Starting out with 2 special was peak, they ruined crucible the moment they even touched special. If you were one of the people that was whining about that, use the damn special. Its not like everyone but you has it. Same thing with the crybabies whining for an ability spam nerf, ya’ll act like ya’ll are the only one in the lobby that doesn’t have the benefits everyone else does, all ya’ll could do is cry
@@XxDeathxX509counter argument special jousting and spamming abilities is not fun
@@XxDeathxX509found the 0.7
@@Sanguine-Angel naw destiny's identity is abilities. go play Arma III
@@jonathancotter7429 nah I’m gonna play this game and complain about it because I love it and want it to get better
Good video, but for me, Bungie has been getting lost in these spreadsheets. They are making meta changes on a 3 to 6 month timeline to freshen up the experience for seasonal players but it leaves crucible in this revolving door of iteration.
I quit the game and moved on, because Destiny 2 isnt offering better experiences, it is offering a rotation of the same tired "adjustments" instead of settling on a vision to move the game forward.
The thing I loved about D1 was that PvE and PvP were both important in the chase for cosmetics and loot. We also had memorable events like Crimson Doubles for Valentines and SRL but all of that is gone and now we just get shop updates and spreadsheet optimization instead of new PvP experiences.
Destiny 2 lost what many found made its gameplay loop so special and devolved into a shop with dungeon/raids and a side of PvP.
He's cooking. My thoughts on High Impact weapons are almost identical to yours
I don’t play a ton of PvP, but the thing that confused me the most over the last 1-2 years was the hard pivot to “checkmate” rules, which re-emphasized primary-ammo gunfights with less special-ammo available, and slightly longer primary TTK. Then, following that shift, Bungie gradually walked those changes back, to the point where now the sandbox is essentially the same as it was before Checkmate was introduced.
Somewhere during that time, Bungie also slightly increased Guardian HP, which in theory allows the developers a little more wiggle room for adjusting outlier TTK archetypes… but (unless we count the minor tweaks to Lightweight bows) we haven’t really seen this have impact on the sandbox.
Im'ma be real, I honestly think Prismatic should be disabled in the Crucible entirely.
As for pulses, I'd just give them even more flinch, reduced aim assist and damage falloff to disincentivize backseat plinking.
i love when they stay in back in 6v6 for kill farming, but in 3v3 it is annoying
@@michaelarcher1577 the more flinch is a terrible idea just look what happened to snipers
@@TheMax107snipers weren’t in the same spot pulses are in right now. Snipers went from good to shit. Pulses would go from oppressive and overpowered, to balanced.
@henrytate857 I like overpowered rapid fire pulses but I'm biased bc of grasp of malok and the d2 version being time worn spire
@ I love 340’s, but it’s becoming evident that when pulses are so out of band, it results in a pretty abysmal meta.
Another massive problem with the way they keep switching their vision on a whim is the lack of consistency you can FEEL. Everything that is fun leaves a feeling in the back of your mind that it won't last forever, which SUCKS. Whether it is 120 handcannons or special ammo or literally anything else. We all have that fun niche option that gets a massive buff for zero reason before being nerfed to irrelevancy. It is not fun.
This is a problem in PvE is well. We just got back a usable YAS. For how long? They literally almost entirely reverted the nerf so why did they do it to begin with?
@terribletimes902 YAS in PVP as well. I was using it before solar 3.0 and it was very strong, but clearly not THE meta. Them in come massive buffs, then it is made a worthless exotic moments after.
Haven't played in forever but still check in on the homies. I hope they find a way to make you enjoy it again. Game isn't for me anymore. Buff something for a few months, nerf it. Buff something else. Repeat. Boring.
These are the kind of conversations that need to be had to make D2 crucible a better place, thank you for making this video
I think if they removed the radar special and ability spam wouldn’t be as oppressive. It’s only so oppressive because everyone knows where everyone is
based
I’ve been telling my friends that radar shouldn’t exist. You can’t flank unless you want 3+ people ready to gun you down in that lane, this forces more hand holding and a passive “you push first playstyle” which incentivizes the 340 usage
@@foxwildcard130 radar makes fps games much sweatier. more about reaction speed. the core of fps multiplayer isn't about being faster it's about being able to predict and surprise and outthink. that's all the fun stuff. radar takes that away.
We have a PVP strike team, not an actual PVP dev team, that’s the problem.
A strike team is a dev team💀
@@championreddI think he means he wants dedicated PvP devs. While I’m sure the strike team is made up of devs it seems it’s mostly their secondary role. Eg. A weapons team person on the PvP strike team, I’m sure most of their focus goes to designing weapons..
@@chocco87 Yeah I should of phrased that better, this is what I mean 👍
People forget about the across the board stability and recoil improvements that were added to pulses (and others) years ago. Pulses have almost no recoil. They all essentially snap right back to the head without having to compensate. This has made guns like graviton lance and bygones easy to use. bygones kicked way more back when it first was released. Pulse are just super easy to use, especially on controller. It isnt long range engagements thats the problem in PvP, its dick holding. You will never see players challenge themselves to venture out and ego a 1v1 becuase they know they'll never get it. And yeah, P{rismatic is a HUGE issue.
Im still mad with the whole ammo situation I really thought they were cooking when they introduced the special ammo bar then also keeping ammo beyond death but always spawning with at least 1 kill worth of special ammo was such a fair system. Now it feels like ammo is literally everywhere!! It's so annoying
Yes agreed 100%. Spawning with 2 was fine with me.
I was struggling hard in comp with a god roll rose. Swapped to messenger and won 6 games in a row
I just think they haven’t got a clue anymore. I believe 340’s should have a harder kick for being a burst fire. This would force better gun skill to get the easy 0.6 ttk.
All the high impact guns in d2 need actual kick.
120 hc are just as laser accurate as precision hcs. Same as pulses. Some of these high impact guns reach 100 recoil direction and should never be able to.
“Network volatile tight peek shooting.” Nothing could define my frustration with PvP more than this statement. 6:19
At this point I think I enjoy talking about PvP over actually playing PvP. Some days I think Bungie actually hates HC users like me... 140's are so far out of the Meta the last time they were viable my Mother was in high-school. Luna's and what they did with Mag-Howl is unforgivable, my fav gun of all time and it's not even close... so here is my opinion the the Mission Statement for the Sandbox team... obviously my opinion.... but the Sandbox is 100% a shell game:
The 8 rules of Sandbox. (inspired by Fight Club obv.)
1. The first rule of Sandbox is: There is no balance in the Sandbox.
2. The second rule of Sandbox is: There is NO BALANCE in the Sandbox.
3. The third rule of Sandbox is: If someone heals (mid-fight), teleports, rubberbands or takes no damage, it's ok because it's not an eSport... so meh.
4. The fourth rule of Sandbox: Only 2 abilities per engagement.
5. The fifth rule of Sandbox: Only META builds win.
6. The sixth rule of Sandbox: No AE, no flinch(jk).
7. The eighth rule of Sandbox: If this is your first time in the Sandbox, you have to suffer.
Watched you content for years Mr Drewsky, always love to hear your commentary, cheers!
I’m glad you mentioned the data is not being used to tell stories. I think that’s something a lot of people don’t realize when it comes to game development is that the bottom line is the user experience and the data is used to validate the user experience which in itself is a story and not just a statistic.
I thought I would be playing trials on Jav-4 with my god roll Adept Summoner... lasted only 2-3 games before realizing how shit it was in the ''peak and hide'' meta. Went flawless with guess what? High ground bygones.
Trials is not the whole pvp game mode, so one game mode designed for streamers doesn't negate the other
Why are they struggling so much? They had perfected it in D1. Garbage low effort ability spam has ruines pvp. Why shoot when I can have a no aim turret do some of the job for me? How about Shield on demand? On demand Invisibility, melee and a grenade all in under half a second . Stasis ruined pvp for me and it has been downhill ever since. My solution? Only select subclasses available in pvp. Things that allow fast mobility but low ability spam and def NO garbo abilities like the ones I mentioned. No freeze or slows . Nothing to stop the flow of combat.
The sad part is that during peak stasis meta with players being frozen more easily and way longer than these days, pvp still played faster than this current re-enactment of the civil war with firing lines in the back of the map every match.
The voice is back❤
That Last word clinic you did on Jav4 was sick btw
Bungie is never going to acknowledge they're ever wrong, their ego couldn't handle it, in the same breath, they are afraid of ANY weapon that is a high skill expression weapon, look at how they nerfed thorn after only ONE WEEK of it getting its catalyst, it wasn't even strong?? But because it was a HC they nerfed it faster than any other weapon has ever been nerfed in the history of this game, when it's always expected for a gun to see high usages anytime they release a catalyst for it, like, that's literally the point? You NEED to use it to unlock it lmao but they used its inflated high usage as a excuse to nerf it when they seem to always take months to nerf any actual problematic weapons that the player base complains about, simply put, bungie literally only want guns that are low skill friendly and take the wielder zero skill and zero brain power to use and to be affective with.
I feel like the strike team is stuck between a rock and a hard place with the dwindling PvP playerbase shouting for nerfs on certain things (storms edge) but being relatively ok with others (high ground). If they don’t adjust according to the community they lose more players but at the cost of overall balance. This could also explain the teams seemingly disingenuous justifications based on data.
I hated checkmate so much that i quit playing. Sitting in the back with a pulse and two buddies just waiting was worse than sliding around with shotguns, evey checkmate match I got into was 3 mid-long range users, sitting on a rift waiting.
It always seems like Bungie wants primary weapons to be much weaker than special weapons. This is why so many players seem to never use their primary
I’m confused by this.. of course bungie wants special weapons stronger than primaries, that’s why they’re special weapons with limited ammo
@ but special weapons aren’t just stronger, they over power most even weapons including heavy weapons. Most heavy weapons require a headshot or perfect timing. Special weapons have far more ammo than heavy & they one hit kill to the body and have insane range. Green ammo is all over the place in PvP
@@iwaskillcam1434 i agree that there is too much special ammo available, hence why you often get killed by a shotgun or fusion etc but they are not stronger than heavy weapons.
Balancing special weapons has been the biggest problem for bungie since 2014 and it’s not going to change. The intention is that they are stronger than a primary but can be used far less frequently, which obviously isn’t the case.
During the all the special testing in checkmate over the last year, the meter system was by far the most enjoyed by the community and yet they removed it for 1-1-1. They simply cannot balance the game.
terrible take imo
@@iwaskillcam1434heavy weapons require perfect timing😂? Be fr kid wtf ru using no hand when you aim?
Really never touched PvP unless there was something I need for it. Always play off meta with lumina and a twin fire gl. I have fun, but I stop playing the moment I see sweats in any capacity. I don't feel like I have any reason to improve, as I'm still getting my engrams and if something is in trials I usually skip it and wait till we get something that is basically the same thing (if not better). I think it might be overall under the umbrella of me losing interest in PvP games (playing against sweats, repetitive metas, K.D. obsession, and toxicity) but it feels to me that the crucible will always feel like a shallow arcadey mess that is only ever fun when you simply don't care about winning.
For me, it's the fact that melee hit detection has been getting noticeably worse and melee wiffs are becoming for common. It's gotten to the point where Titan is practically unplayable even though they're the class that's entirely around meleeing. Even in PVE, it's affected Tcrash. You can't even direct hit bosses half the time and just go right through them. Like, when your core mechanics of the game aren't working properly for YEARS, wtf are you even doing?
Every since the health overhaul a year or so ago I stopped pvp outright I went from putting tens of hour every trials weekend to completely dropping the mode. When they changed all the values it felt like nothing was truly being changed just the numbers your seeing but with how horrendous the rollout was with all the oversites on what changed and what didn’t with all the special weapon shenanigans, and it seemed that the things that were way out band were being even more highlighted
It’s a shame to see the sandbox that made destiny so good seems to be just tinkered with Willy nilly by people that don’t understand what is needed
I truely wonder who you'd ask, who played during 30th anni, and now, would tell you pvp is in a better, more enjoyable state now. Over 4-5 years, almost every facet of pvp, from core identify, loot, weapon meta, ability meta, long standing outliers, and negative effects like wallhacks and on demand HP that everyone somehow unlearns and remembers is unfun, is at all time lows, despite having years to itterate on a better system.
It concerns me most, is the lack of transparency with the community, on what they're able to do technically, what they're allowed to do under direction of their higher ups, and what decision making goes into changes. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see upcoming changes they have prepared, and foresee what good or bad can come of it, and what they clearly missed on. These types of conversations, ideally ones that aren't 'we wish we could but nope', but ones that actually lead to better changes, need to happen, and soon
how hard smgs got gutted after they were finally put in a good spot definitely isn't helping this game from being midrange hell
I don't think the "crucible strike team" ever set foot in the crucible with the rest of us and let's not kid ourselves, those Bungie employees that do are not very good at all.
Mercules is on the strike team. He plays at a high level for sure.
@@finefornow_mercules is a mediocre player at best and is known to be a pulse rifle lover, and that's the problem, he's biased
Hadn't played pvp for a while and have been jumping into trials the past couple weeks for some weapon rolls. Your thesis describes my experience in a way that I couldn't quite put together after a long break from PvP. You just cannot peek anything nowaday without getting immediately melted- even a flank is so easily countered. I'm not a great player, but every play session I had to spend 30 minutes learning to play with the utmost conservative posture. Trials of course brings out the worst in every meta, so at least low level comp (my skill) is dynamic. Regardless, and most importantly, it's great to see you post. I along with others miss your voice, insight, and theory crafting and execution thereof.
All i know is the better i get the less fun i have because the better i get the more i realise how miniscule the physical counterplay to most of the bs this game has.
I went from a 0.8 in Forsaken to coming back late BL getting to 1.2 and then coming back late WQ being a 1.5 that I kept playing till today at over 2kd consistently and i die to the same exact bs i died even when i was a 0.8.
The only difference is that i rarely die to shotguns now but that's because shotguns are terrible compared to forsaken.
Also matchmaking is blatantly rigged if you are anywhere over 1.4kd like you can physically see the difference in teammates every game after you get a W in non trials gamemodes.😂
We playing CoD matchmaking but unlike cods the game is unbalanced as f.
Never die to shotguns? U must not ever play 6v6. I'm a pretty decent player and always play solo and 6v6 pvp and the only specials I ever die to are shotguns. 99% of the time I die to a special it's a shotgun cause with all these small maps and 6 opponents running around at the speed of light with one hit kill no aim weapons like shotties are impossible to stop entirely especially being a solo player. I engage in lots of primary gun battles and get shot in the back , side everywhere with a slide shotgun ape that proceeds to run light speed circles around the small map catching people actually using primaries and getting cheap and easy kills. There a reason 90% of special kills in crucible are by shotguns. They're brain dead , no skill weapons in 6's. Who snipes anymore with flinch that sends your reticle to the moon ? So much easier to run around like a headless chicken , slide and press a button for an instant easy kill and then being right there to pick up more shotty ammo to do the same thing to the next person.
I never thought about it but you are spot on about high impact weapons in general being overpowered and not encouraging a more "fun" run and gun mid range to low range engagement playground.
Currently, high ground has 3 stacks. You instantly get 3 stacks when shooting from “high ground” and you get 2 stacks when getting a guardian kill.
The nerf makes it so that you only get 1 stack from shooting from “high ground”.
Presumably, 1 stack is not enough to 2 burst in PvP, but we don’t know this, as it’s currently impossible to get only 1 stack of high ground in PvP, only 2 or 3 stacks. So we will see
I was told 1 stack is 5% which is enough for it to 2 burst but I'd love to be wrong
@ yeah I mean I hope it isn’t 5%. It’s literally impossible to tell right know afaik
Adaptive pulses benefit the most from the smallest possible dmg buffs. At 5%, it will still 2 burst but with absolutely no forgiveness or extra range beyond falloff.
@@rushsoccer1355I mean people aren’t crying about radiant hunter abusing radiant(10% dmg buff) and adaptive architecture as a whole they can look it with frostees and loop it infinite well
I pair bakris with syncopation and get 2 bursts all the time and bakris is 6% i think? I would imagine 1 stack of high ground will also allow 2 burst if it's 5%
Awesome listen, couldnt agree more with the high impact pulses. Hope this vid reaches bungie and they have the opportunity to consider it, it echoes my experiences very accurately. I am at the point where i think headseeker needs a nerf, it makes these pulses so forgiving
I think high impact pulse rifles might be due for a stability or aim assist rebalance (Elsie’s in particular). The two burst is pretty easy to achieve at pretty ridiculous ranges. High impacts should need higher stability to lock in the two burst but should come at the cost of other stats like range or handling.
Honestly I feel like the best middle ground to nerf high impact pulses would be to nerf their rpm by such a slight amount so that the ttk goes from a 0.67 to a 0.73. That would make the 2 burst the same ttk as an aggressive frame pulse (4 shot burst pulses) so that u can have a trade off for both 2 burst pulses. Also it would give A LOT of mid range primaries room to breath a bit more and maybe catch the high impact user lackin if they are quick enough. Im so glad there bringing back the 2c1b for 120’s cuz there SHOULD be a slower, more recoil lower handling arcetype of hc that can do that and the 120’s are LITERALLY that. Im on ps5 and pulses can out peak shot a hc if they keep bursting the corner where the hc is trying to peak so personally I feel like the “hc r the best peak guns” is still tru but not as far of a gap as previously interpreted in the past. There so close to what they can both do peak shooting wise that I just dont see the evidence anymore. Thats y 120’s and 140’s r very balanced imo even with the 120 “buff” when its really just returning to what they SHOULD be doing imo. Really good points I agree with like 95% of this vid. 😂🎉
Funny enough, the original RPM of 340 pulses was 320 on release of the game. I agree they need to go back to that.
they always nerf non-hand cannons if they are good for a few weeks.
Hows the 1 video a year plan going drewsky?
well
High ground should just work against combatants and invaders. It just doesn’t seem like a dynamic enough perk to Prock during a match.
Prismatic was the most short sighted idea ever conceived by bungie and has ruined the balance of pve and pvp entirely, and pretty much permanently.
340s are only an issue because of abilities, literally listen to and watch this clip 8:00 - team mate holds the angle with a 340 and as soon as they get pushed is able to use a one shot, AoE ability 3 times!
And then there’s diamond lance, knockout, shiver strike (what the hell was that buff?) smoke bombs, clones etc
This is why sidearms and SMGs are dead, not because 340s have a fast and easy ttk.
NGL, I'd love to see how they analyze their data. They frequently refer to usage rates, but do they account for weights within skill brackets? Lower brackets don't use the high impact pulses as much, leaning more on the easier-to-use adaptives even with the worse ttk (with the exception of high ground obv). As a stats-minded person, i really want to see if they perform any sort of analysis, or just read the raw numbers.
It’s nice to see that my many month hiatus hasn’t left me too far behind in the meta. All the time I’ve saved not having to grind seasons and new content has been a panacea for the soul.
I’ve been saying for a long time. There needs to be more pros and cons to abilities and strong perks. One idea I had was if the enemy destroyed your threaded specter that they can gain kill clip from it. Like how if you destroy a stasis turret you can get kill clip.
Thanks for the video Drew! I agree with your thoughts
Cqc engagements with primaries are harder and yet also less rewarding, and yet they decided to nerf smgs like crazy without touching pulses and hand cannons after immortal dropped
powerful and illuminating perspective, hope they decide to act on the points youve raised
I used to live in the Crucible. But, since Final Shape and Prismatic, I've steered clear. I hope these changes will benefit the Crucible.
Bungie once said they balanced the sandbox around 140s... yet trying to use one makes you put yourself at a disadvantage, even with most exotics these days and now they want to balance around the very outliers they created?!?
But Mag Howl got changed and Lunas could not come back in it's og state because it would be "too powerful" because of a 0.67 ttk.... cue Elsies, Messenger, NTTE, etc.
As for favouritism: Just listen to the weapon developer in the last Bungie stream. It becomes quite clear he loves using pulses. Surprise, surprise.
The mag howl point you made really made me realize just how bad things are
solution for special usage. Don't nerf special ammo cause it's fun using specials. Just make them more high risk high reward weapons. They already did it to snipers by making them flinch to the moon by even getting hit by the weakest impact guns in the game. Rarely anyone chooses to snipe anymore cause it's HIGH RISK. How bout giving shotties and fusions the same treatment now?!
Maybe make carrying a shotgun feel heavy and sluggish so it slows your movement more than when carrying a primary and maybe making fusions much harder to control their recoil to land enough bolts or severely cutting down their range? Easy as that and things will be more balanced and people will actually have their primaries out more. As I said before, snipers are hardly used cause of their flinch penalties and the same will happen to shotties and fusions if their movement and stability and or range get penalized
I used to be a destiny pvp guy and for the most part I still love the pvp, the ttk and ability play are just so unique. Despite that there's two things stopping me from playing pvp right now in high impact pulses and the special ammo economy. I don't see any reason a longer range weapon should be able to not only peak fire better than hand cannons, but get a better ttk than a lot of smgs. The special ammo economy causes the match to start with special, crates give special without actually earning it, and losing special when dying pushes people to play like apes or camp with snipers instead of saving it and meshing it into their primary play.
My goat is back… things must be dire
Oh, hell yeah, new drewsky video. Always love me a drewsky video.
Interacting for the algorithm even though I've been off Destiny for a while. Always appreciate a Drewsky upload ❤
Anyone who has played against/with a bungie dev in pvp and say just how bad they are at the game shows the obvious reason pvp is dying
You can not remove gamblers dodge and multi charge abilities without completely destroying a majority of builds in pve. As much as pvp players hate to admit it, pve is WAAAAY more important than pvp and absolutely gutting all builds for pvp balance when pvp is largely ignored by Bungie is a terrible idea. So, in terms of gamblers dodge specifically, that's just gonna be something you have to get over, it isn't going anywhere. Maybe Bungie could find a way to only allow 1 charge on other abilities in pvp only, but if not, then that's also something we'll have to get over. And nerfing cooldowns so much you might as well only have 1 would also be a bad idea unless it's pvp only as well. I really don't have any idea what they could do without severely negatively affecting the majority of the game, that being pve, so it also may just be something we have to deal with going forward.
It's currently filled with cheaters, mostly wallhackers tbh, once there are dedicated servers, that would mostly dissapear. I doubt they would invest, but since that sh*t that never launched got canned, maybe they got no choice. Let's hope.
I haven't played trials since they added prismatic. I remember the last time I enjoyed trials was when guardian games was up. Where the most egregious thing was strand hunter with conditional and void titans. Abilities had to be used smartly and you could have rounds where no one had any special or abilities and that was so fun. It was just your gun and your wits.
This PvP dev team man. I don't even know where to begin. I don't want to be malicious to the developers, but how can they be so disconnected from the community? I do not understand their goals for PvP anymore. They outlined clear and ambitious goals for PvP in March, received largely universal praise, and proceeded to backtrack almost every one of their newly outlined goals. I'm sorry, the devs have failed the dedicated PvP community. Once again, they have completely lost my trust. I no longer believe in the PvP dev team and no longer think they are capable of making the changes the game needs
I think your missing the big picture, they created the high ground bygones monster purposely to re populate gambit and it worked. I reset my gambit rank 5 times already coming from 0-1 the past seasons. Sometimes you need to have a broken carrot at the end of the stick to chase man. Another example the comp shot gun I am in their every week again trying to grind that perfect lone wolf closing time roll. I say let them cook and let's actually have fun again.
Good video! Great video even. You know me, I completely agree, the future is a little concerning.
A big issue I don’t see anyone talking about is that there’s no way to nerf prismatic without also nerfing the original subclasses. Sure you can hit ability cd’s but at that point prismatic is always gonna either be meta or useless without any meaningful inbetween. I think the only option at this point is to just disable prismatic in pvp entirely (or maybe just in comp and trials) until bungie figures out a way for prismatic to exist in pvp while leaving sufficient room to breathe for the OG subclasses.
Also, 340 pulses have to have a decrease in fire rate, it’s insane that they’ve been this strong for this long and bungie just can’t accept the fact that it is an inherently broken design that can’t be balanced with its current damage profile. Imagine combining the range and peek shotting of a 120 hc with the TTK of an smg. That’s a 340 pulse.
My take is.. why get ready to nerf explosive payload on HCs when they’re about to give everyone a Rose with EP?
Too many cheaters ruining PC PVP lobbies, literally every other match and sometimes every match I play there is a aimbot cheater in the lobby (sometimes even the super hackers with infinite supers and what not). I heard that there are people using things like Cronus on console as well unfortunately, so until these issues are fixed, I'll be avoiding online pvp gaming in general because it's rampant in the industry. I'm not the best player in the world but I do have an overall 1.9 KD so a bit above average.
I hope they revert the changes to pre final shape. This is just a pain right now. Numbers don t lie. I mean precision emphasis on a game plagued by lags is borderline insanity ...
No pulse rifle should have for two burst without a mid level damage trait.
I gave up on PvP:
- In Beyond Light, they nerfed Stasis every single season, so the next one they add a new Aspect and Fragments that nullify the previous nerf.
- They added Labs for "testing" the Dominion game mode who nobody asked and nobody liked, and they forced as the only game mode available for Trials, forcing a super meta for almost 3 years.
- Since the introduction of Target Lock, SMGs were stupidly strong because of it. Solution? Over a year, they nerfed SMGs and they were still strong. At last they nerf Target Lock and now SMGs are horrible in PvE and struggle in PvP.
- In a podcast, they tease a buff to Graviton Lance. They were asked if the buff was too strong to consider lower it down in order to no break PvP. The answer? I quoute: "Graviton Lance won't be meta due to Revision Zero double-burst mode isn't meta". What happened next? It was meta.
- Swarm + Smoke is still too strong. They decided to nerf Swarm when the main issue in fact is Smoke Bomb due to its ability to: slow, blind, weaken and radar manipulation. Those are 4 key words on a single ability.
- Remember that time when One-Eyed Mask used to grant wallhacks? They removed it and changed it to just highlight. Knucklehead Radar? Oh yeah, they just lower the timer of the wall hacks but still grants enhanced dmg to secure kills.
- They tested over 6 months an ammo system just to roll it back in less than 3 months.
- PvP used to be fun. Since the addition to SBMM it went worse, specially Iron Banner. The problem is not SBMM, because when it works it could be useful, but oh god: their SBMM is horrendous.
- Competitive used to have competitive game modes. Now, we have game modes that are not competitive enough (Clash) or grant a massive advantage to a team in a RNG system due to zones.
At this point they need to give full support to PvP if they really care, because giving all the stuff to PvE and a little bit of attention to PvP doesn't work.
As someone who recently came back to the game from a long break. I will have to say holy shit, knockout, diamond lance, void arsenal and heavy machineguns is oppresive to go against. I am so tired. Also Prismatic is just way too good, why use other subclasses when it has all the best from every subclass. That was always going to happen with this subclass, but they still made it.
This whole meta is awful. SMGs and sidearms are dead in the dirt, completely shutting down any close range duels. All you get when you run these is fusions/slugs/ability spam. Compressing smgs range over the years has killed them apart form the ones that can hit 100 range.
Fuck smgs, hand cannons need to dominate always.
@@angelgustavoulloagalvez3366 this is the exact mentality that got us to this meta
SMGs and sidearms are fine IMO. However, I totally agree that fusions and shotties have ALWAYS been WAY overpowered in PvP. There should be NO low skill one shot weapons in PvP, and they have way too much range. The other issue is Autos are hitting too hard and really aren’t that different from SMGs up close but offer way more range. So on a per engagement basis a pulse/auto + shotty/fusion is obviously the way to go. Get rid of none precision one shot kills. Another problem, abilities are way out of control. So unless you have a one shot kill weapon, you’re going to killed by one or nuked with abilities.
@itshadouken They really aren't fine right now, though. A lot of that is the strength of shotguns, fusions, and prismatic (Hunter mainly), though. Smgs simply offer no strong benefits to be chosen over a 140, a 600 auto, or a pulse. They have mediocre ttks nowadays, low ease of use, and no forgiveness outside of range falloff.
@@ianmills6260 nah, SMGs being meta is shittier than pulse rifles. When the sandbox was balanced around hand cannons the games was healthy and that is just a fact
Storms edge needed nerf don’t even get me started
At this point just do the obvious thing. 1. Make a lightless slayer playlist. 2. Remove control as the default and put in a standard slayer playlist. 3. Make a blue gear only list or perhaps all white gear. These are just ideas but change some shit up. This is like going to a restaurant and the chef only makes one mediocre item ever and then complains when people leave of boredom. Really though nothing going to be done, pvp is dead and it will probably stay that way.
Identity crisis is certainly a good word for it. I quit playing a while ago cause I just didn't want to play anymore, in large part due to PvP just being unfun. There have been tons of changes since then, but no real goal. Checkmate was something at least, a framework of some sorts and Bungie probably had an idea brewing there. But every balance change since it was scrapped seems like damage control or at worst it just feels random. I hope Bungie has some sort of goal in mind, or at the very least gets one. I don't care what the goal would be or why they'd choose it, a direction would be nice.
Replace "Crucible" with "Destiny" in your youtube title.
I do not believe I have played Crucible this year and that's wild but not unexpected given its state.
Couldn’t agree more, thank you!
It feels like Bungie has short term memory and can only have hindsight of a year or less
The 30th anniversary was the most balanced this game has ever been.
Diamond Lance actually is on a 5 second cooldown
17 in pvp
Back when Autos are actually on par with HCs, we all thought it's going in the right direction.
Then Stasis hit and it's never been the same
Can you make a video on where to find key exotics people should strive for? I am a new player to destiny, I have a couple of exotics, but I have no idea where to look because a lot of peoples videos are outdated. The exotic I’m currently looking for is the mask of Bakris.
Since its inception I have not put down bygons out law kill clip and it’s been OP… people would make fun of me for “living in the past” but the only time I would ever put it down was in trials because I had to….. they can “nerf” that perk I’ll be fine hahah
The fact anyone takes PvP seriously in Destiny is hysterical.
I definitely agree with a lot of what you’re saying. I think the issue for me is while you’re advocating for diversity in the meta with things like other sub archetypes of pulse, 140 hand cannons, and scouts, the majority of the community, just wants 120 and 140 hand cannons to be the only thing that defines the meta. There’s no diversity in destiny the majority of the time and I think in response to feedback, Bungie tipped the scale too far the other way of too fast and put it to a brisk crawl because abilities make matches fast but pulses like Elsie’s make the lane duels the only way to win. But the majority of the community if Elsie’s does get nerfed is just going to default to hand cannons rather than advocating for a diverse sandbox