S2E21: Our modified Saturn that gets Extreme MPG with lean-burn and Robo-throttle.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Season 2 Episode 21 Jimbo explains the upgrades that were made on both the Robo-throttle and the lean-burn system. With both systems activated, we went for a road test to check the fuel economy. Checkout this video to see the amazing results!
S2E20: We road test the fuel saving Robo-throttle on our project car and discover hidden MPG’s. • S2E20: We road test th...
S2E19: DIY Smart drive by wire throttle plus new project car Saturn SW2
• S2E19: DIY Smart drive...
S2E18: We test a lean burn system on our Saturn . Will it get better MPG?
• S2E18: We test a lean...
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I can't wait for the inevitable conclusion of this with a full stand alone ECM setup running lean burn corn ethanol with robo throttle and full aero for a 200 mpg saturn that takes 3 minutes to go from 0-60 and is 40ft long looking like a UFO whizzing past confused deer on the roadside.
Yessssssssss!!
I unironically want this vehicle. I have a 60 miles commute and gas is a lot.
Unless you are very tall, the Saturn coup is extremely uncomfortable, The sedans and wagons get the same fuel economy but are slightly more comfortable.
LOL.... I really want to do all that just to confuse the local deer population. They will have story's to tell for years.
There's literally not enough energy in gasoline for that Saturn to get 200 MPG for any significant distance without losing a lot of elevation.
I love these fuel economy shenanigans. Not many other youtubers do economy stuff, it's all about MORE POWER!!!!!!
2000’s tuning: “MORE POWER “
2020’s tuning: “ please use less gas”
Love the comments here..
Why not both, make lean burn map on cruise, and give it some timing and fuel on high rpm, now days variable valve makes it even better to have both, if you are on custom ecu its even easier to make lean maps for cruise speeds.
@@winha1435 easier said than done...
@@Fred_the_1996 I have seen this done this whit few ecus, done one myself whit Vems and now trying to make this on ms43 ecu and im quite amateur on this. Sure its not plug and play but not insanely hard either, ecu platform make it harder on differend platforms some have pretty good modding community.
@@winha1435 yeah, my crusty old 1995 ecu is almost impossible to tune lol, I tried chip tuning it once and it fcked up my ignition timing and fuel mix so bad that the car didin't even start until I took it to a programming shop. It's harder than it looks for beginners like myself😅 Maybe I'll try using a BIPES ACU in the future since no one uses them anymore and they're dirt cheap
Don't just scrap the Saturn. There is a following for those that would buy it in a heartbeat
Yes,, in a heatbeat💖💖💖💖
I agree! Especially at over 40mpg!
My salvage title sc2 dohc gets over 40mpg stock with an automatic on the highway, vibrating like a paintshaker at low rpm...
@@tkello001 Replace your upper passenger engine mount with an oem style one. I had the same problem.
Try adding covers to the back wheel well and maybe those smooth wheel covers trucks have to the front. A lot or drag comes from turbulence from wheels. Car companies mostly don't cover them because big fancy rims look cool and are a status symbol.
yup. Top of the wheels are going twice as fast as the rest of the car
There's a lot of aerodynamic things they could do to the car. Basically need to make the car as egg shaped as possible. And then dimple all the sheet metal like a golf ball.
Citroen's of old looked cool and they had covered wheels
@Matt I think it has a chance. A massive, heavy brick may not benefit much but a lightweight somewhat aerodynamic coupe may see a change.
@@flb78 golf ball dimples likely wouldn't help things at this scale unless you have really awful aero. Even then normal vortex generators places strategically would be better than the mini dimple vortex generators on a golf ball.
Google timing advance processors ”TAP” these are are wired between the ECU and the crankshaft position sensor and meant to be used on LPG/CNG converted engines and allow you to program extra ignition advance.
That sure sounds interesting. Plus I would love to see LPG conversion in the future.
I was thinking he could use the IAT signal to tell the computer to add timing. Not sure what cylinder airmass he is cruising at but on the tune I'm looking at anything under 50F and over 0.32 cyl/airmass is adding timing. If he wanted he could tune the ECU with hptuners and use the IAT as a signal to add the timing for lean burn but that would be at least $100 in credits to tune a old swap destind Saturn.
@@1987FX16 back when the 240 z Datsun was new , we added a few hundred ohm rheostat to the sensor and adjusted for both timing and fuel
@@dennisford2000 Check out that crazy fuel economy!@
@@1987FX16 That's a very good idea, and I can tell you it should work that way too! I drive a 2003 Jeep WJ with the venerable ole 4.0. My model has the IAT in the intake manifold while the last model year for my model - 2004 - has the IAT in the airbox itself. I have an OBD reader and dedicated phone attached on my dash which has different guages on the screen so I can watch my timing, throttle position, engine load, rpms, coolant temp, etc. I also monitor my IAT and with the sensor in the intake it soaks up the engine heat and usually always read roughly the engine temp. About two years ago I calculated what value resistor I would need to wire in series with my IAT in order for the ECU to see what the actual incoming air temp is and once I did that it now reads pretty close to the actual incoming air and it bumped my ignition timing up quite a bit, enough to notice a little on acceleration, and it bumped my fuel mileage up a mpg or two! And it's been working beautifully that way for two years now! I've thought about wiring in a variable resistor so I could further play around with it, but I think I may leave well enough alone. 😎
3 Hours for hillbilly proving grounds testing? Dang that's dedication, mad props for that! Much love for the content!
The highest vehicle mileage ever was achieved by 77-year-old Irv Gordon in his 1966 Volvo 1800S. By mid-2014, he had driven more than three million miles, averaging as much as 100,000 miles a year. We salute you, Mr. Gordon.
Hats off to Mr. Gordon.
@@mommapanda5736 Every 7,000 Miles: Wheel Alignment. As noted above, misaligned wheels will cause your tires to wear unevenly. If you notice your tires are unevenly shaped or if your car is pulling to one direction, it means your wheels are misaligned. Even if you don’t see any of the signs of misalignment, it’s a good idea to have your alignment checked every other oil change to nip any problems in the bud.
@@ocdman202
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@@ocdman202 Yes..... nip any problems in the bud.
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For reference, one of the earliest (and therefore should be quite primitive) lean burn cars, The toyota Carina with the lean burn engine option of the mid 1990s, could get Air fuel values as far up as 17-18:1 when in lean burn mode, as far as I recall. But its been a looong time, perhaps those values from my memory are not fully accurate, and it was even a bit more.
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Back when I owned a Saturn (over 10 yrs ago) the trick for fuel economy was a "hot air intake". The ECU will add some timing if the intake air is hot, and also reduce fueling a bit. You could probably get the same effect by spoofing the IAT sensor. It's just a variable resistor.
Adding the map reading elements of the smart throttle to the cruise control would be very cool. It would also have the possibility of removing the second throttle body because the cruise control would perform the same function of controlling the throttle
Looking forward to another great video from ROBOT CANTINA..
“This weekend don’t think about Monday, it will come soon enough.”
Probably the easiest way to monkey with ignition timing is to alter the intake air temperature sensor readings. The ECT and ACT will both influence ignition timing, but the ECT will also influence fueling. The ACT should primarily influence ignition timing, to account for cold and hot ambient temperatures.
Good Comment here.
I finally found this comment, now i cad delete the one i just made
Glad you're happy to recieve the wideband, keep on keeping on!
Dude! You rock!
@@dangerousdave5915 money well spent.
Hi Anthony! Thanks for the gift, we will use it on many future projects!
@@robotcantina8957 This is a really great channel..... yes to ROBOT CANTINA!!
That was an awesome gesture! 😎
I bought the wife a 4 door SL1 sedan. Turns out i needed it for long trips for work. Soooo I changed all fluids and greases to synthetic, opened up the plug gap, created a ram air, always drove with the windows up and the air off. Took the wipers off and installed in internal antenna and pulled the right mirror. Over pressurize the low rolling resistance tires. Built a bigger front spoiler and added side skirts. With regular gas (no ethanol) I was getting 52 mpg at 60 mph! Dealer couldn't believe it and wanted to call saturn. Oh i forgot.... pure New Mexico highways. I also just got rid of a Geo metro Xfi with even more mods. It hit 61 mpg!
omg👍
Hey Jimbo, here's the CMP stuff you were needin.
The electronic ignition (EI) module supplies a ground to the cylinder #4 signal wire whenever it determines cylinder #4 has just fired on its compression stroke. The EI module uses capacitive pickup plates located under the 1/4 coil pack to determine the polarity sequence and voltage amplitude of the cylinder 1/4 secondary ignition. The powertrain control module (PCM) supplies 5 volts on the signal line and expects to see the cylinder #4 signal wire go low after every 14 crankshaft pulses (2 revolutions). This is used to determine the position of the camshaft, except under decel. The PCM only uses the transition from 5-0 volts as a valid top dead center (TDC) compression #4 cylinder signal. DTC P0341 sets when the PCM detects extra cam pulses (more than one cam pulse within 2 crankshaft revolutions).
So that's how they do it, Very interesting indeed, I had a feeling the cam timing was done through the coil pack, but not a clue how it was done. Thanks!
For folks in europe, PSA did the same trick on the "TU" engines as a result they can get reall snotty about cheap coil packs. This isnt the same as SAAB's ion-sence thats a whole other bag of fancy fun.
@@denisohbrien I've been through the Saab story a few times, the coil pack is either unobtanium, discontinium, a used gamble, or aftermarket that just does not work correctly at all.
@@robotcantina8957 Yep, been through that whole process of having to learn how something works to figure out why it's not working more than a few times, thankfully this system is well documented so we're not all flyin blind which makes life a lot easier. It's a clever work around to save money that can probable be exploited (or exploded) for your goals if you wanted to dive that deep. If you can't easily change the time when the spark fires I wonder how changing when the fuel injector comes on would do? I know it's behind a valve but I don't know the relation of valve starting to open vs injector turn on time, might be such a thing that the injector can start a little early and be squirtin as the valve opens rather than once the valve is open. Batch fire worked pretty good for a while in the 80's and 90's so some fuel on the back of the intake valve isn't awful.
@@huzudra Some really great comments here.
with out a cam sensor you can still do wasted spark, fire 2 cylinders, 1 will bang the other exhaust. Injectors can be pulsed all 4 at the same time even.
The work is amazing that you put in to this. And it is fun to get an understanding on how different components effect the performance of the engine. I had an 1995 Volvo 440 SE 2.0. It had an PSA motor that used a simple EFI system with MAP-sensor in the intake, water temp and air temp. And it used an DIM ignition with the ford style combined coil-pack. It averaged 6.5l/100km in city/urban driving. But on longer trips (400km+) we could get it to 4.5l/100km. I would have loved to have been able to dig in tot that ECM and see what type of witchcraft the PSA engineers managed. It also just accepted an 50/50 gas e85 mix. Even tough the fuel economy suffered.
Anyhow, great content as usual :)
Looking forward to another great video from ROBOT CANTINA.
This just makes me miss my old SL2, one of the more reliable cars I have owned not to mention one of the best cars to teach stick on. (Had a friend that would constantly forget to press the clutch when trying to shift)
Where has this channel been all my life!?
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Impressive! Great lesson Jimbo, thank you for all those miles you drive. When it's diesel time in the coupe I hope are able to test out a few fuel alternatives for economy and power differences. I used to work in Oberlin Ohio which has the 2nd most expensive college in the state. A guy there had an old gas station that offered biofuel and he had old diesel Benz cars he converted, he was a little too ahead of his time though because he closed down. It was very surreal though when he would drive by and you'd smell French fries and Chinese food
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My first car was an SL1 sedan in that same candy apple red. I was told there were only a few made in that color. Nice to see one still kicking!
I am really looking forward to more from Robot Cantina...
Just in awe of these videos, still drive a sl1 as my daily.
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Do you bring the soft drinks also?
@@mommapanda5736 The soft drinks and the beer.
so anxious waiting... for the next fantastic video..... from ROBOT CANTINA..
JIMBO, CONGRATULATIONS ON 115K SUBSCRIBERS!!😊😊
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Man your smart. Thanks for dumming it down so i can understand. Keep up the great work.
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ROBOT CANTINA....
Saturn has "Wasted-spark" type of ignition. Every rotation one of the pistons from pair (1&4 and 2&3) has compression&power stroke. So you just need 1 rotation of crankshaft to get ECU in correct table for ignition.
Probably has batch fire fuel injection too, not true sequential.
@@theatomproject007 agree here on sequential.
The Saturn we use for the videos actually has sequential EFI even though it lacks a cam position sensor. A few folks in the comment section have done a decent job explaining how it works, but basically the ECU is using some clever magic and monitoring the coil pack module. its very interesting on how it works.
@@robotcantina8957 very interesting! Throw a Speeduino in batch mode on it!
@@robotcantina8957 How many connectors are there on the ignition control module? If it's two then it's batch fire, If it's one then it's sequential.
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See if you can fi d yourself a 97 plymouth breeze with the 2 litre 5 speed manual. Mine got real close to 50 mpg ( imperial) which for the first few tanks on a used car made me wonder if the fuel guage worked properly. Pretty close to 1000kms on a tank of fuel.
driving with the windows open or closed makes a LOT of aerodynamic difference.................................
Yes, but its been between 95 and 100F here in Kansas and the car doesn't have air conditioning. We absolutely had the windows open...kinda had to.
Essentially you built a 1886 Oldsmobile cutlass, advanced the timing 4 degrees from wear, and engaged a brutally laggy cruise control....My moms car...1986
0 to 60, by the next town or so.
Looking forward to another great video from ROBOT CANTINA!
Always a fantastic video. Thanks for the honest and down to earth mentality, we need more of that these days.
Like button pushed, or clicked whatever these computers preferred nomenclature is...
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Saturn's use the ignition module mounted on the trans and the coils mount on. There is a sensing circuit to listens for number 4 cylinder to fire. That is how it uses sequential injection. Also if you trick the intake air sensor that it is colder it will run more timing. At 100 dgs air temp it pulls 3 degrees of ign timing. But you will have to be creative because if you leave it tricked over night when you start it you will get a fault for it. I believe it uses the engine coolant temp to compare the intake temp for over night soaks to verify it is working.
I'll do an experiment this week, thanks for the heads up on the CLT and the IAT being compared on start up. We can easily get around that. Thanks again!
@@robotcantina8957 We look forward to this.
@@robotcantina8957 also if you want to add more timing you can trick the map sensor to believing that the engine has more vacuum than it really does. But one thing you may start to run into is a system rich or lean fault. If the fuel trims ate + or - 20% of expected fuel delivery you will get a fault. I am unsure of any actions taken by the pcm other than the fault. Also. Map sensor is used as a barometric sensor and is used to gauge elevation prior to starting the engine. I have quite a bit of knowledge with saturns specifically. Let me know if you have any questions.
@@johncollinsgrove1750 You put the you in thank you Thank you ROBOT CANTINA!
Have you tried low rolling resistance tyres? (Bridgestone Ecopia or similar - eg Prius tyres)
I have found about a 15% difference in fuel economy between these and "normal" tyres.
@Frugal Family Living Looking forward to another great video from ROBOT CANTINA!!
Hell yeah! A gen 2 Saturn SC getting some love! The SC2’s have a lot better interior and seats tbh. And the gen 3’s are even better!
My ‘08 Yaris max mileage is 42…has 280,000 and still gets 42… it gets 36 no matter what.
I had a ‘96 Tercel that got 52…no mods…was incredible !
Doesn't lean-burning cause the NOx emission go thru the roof?
Yes, lean burn will raise the NOX in the exhaust. Originally we were going to copy the method Honda used to combat the NOX issue, but since we were only able to go slightly lean, we didn't feel it was necessary.
@@robotcantina8957 👍👍👍👍👍
ROBOT, love the music on this video.....
@@ocdman202 Robot, can't wait for your next video!
I wish they would make fuel efficient cars again. I used to deliver pizza in a 1994 Geo Metro and got 36 to 38 mpg in a sub urban environment. And that's delivering pizza, mind you. Driving with a purpose. I had a 2006 Crown Victoria that if I didn't let the rpm go over 2,200 and never used the air, it would get 19 to 21 miles per gallon in town. Now everything has to be so fast and futuristic looking. Even electric cars have to be rocketships.
Me too..... I am really looking forward to another video from ROBOT CANTINA!
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Those ECOTEC s are unreal! Had 05 Cavalier that got almost 50 mpg with H RACECRAFT stage 3! And AC on... NO TUNING!
Wonder why they quit making them? And the Honda s of the late 90 early 00... Make stupid power and got almost 50 mpg highway! Blank the man is all I have to say!
@@mattcrain6893 Looking forward to more ROBOT CANTINA... here...
@@ocdman202 Where has this channel been all my life!?
I have a 1.5 liter Ford focus with 195 HP and when driving 90 km/h it gets under 4,5 L/100 km easily. Love modern engines
Dude...this is America...please refrain from the metrics please.
There have been a few fuel economy tests done with the windows down vs ac on and the ac on was more fuel efficient. Essentially what your doing with the windows down is dragging a bunch more weight (drag) like a big parachute hanging off the back of your car. Try the next tests with the windows up and no other modifications . And anyone who says 9+ mpg isn't helpful is out of touch with reality.... that's really impressive
Hello from Detroit Michigan brother 94\275 Thank you for taking us on your adventure And thank you for your knowledge and expertise
Take a look into air temp sensor, you may be able to do a variable resistor to trick it to think it hotter or cooler and it should change timing. (Ebay sellers sell them and performance “chips”)
Even an Arduino has enough CPU to modify the ignition timing signal. To perform an advance, making the output trigger before the input, isn't some sort of time-warping magic. The SW simply has a counting loop that stays synchronized with the engine, and the output is advanced based on the SW loop. Of course the tracking of speed changes needs to be tracked optmally, but since the engine is not revving so quickly, it's "easy" to do so.
Or just purchase an aftermarket ECU and be done with it.
Yikes, that afr during acceleration was in the 11s, thats pig rich, my twin turbo mustang doesn't even go that rich. If you can keep the afrs during acceleration closer to high 13s you will get better economy.
Can’t wait to see the results. 6 hours
another thing you could try is getting a narrower tire. On my wifes corolla she had a 195/65/15 and I put on some 185/65/15 tires. the speedo only changed about 2 kph but she went from average 550 km per tank to over 600. less rolling resistance = less fuel burned. also the car does better in slippery conditions because a narrower tire patch increases the pressure per square inch which increases traction.
Love the comments on this crazy video..
Very interesting as always! I have another idea of how you could potentially advance the ignition timing a bit. If you trick the ECU into thinking the intake air temp or possibly coolant temp is lower than it actually is, that may result in a bit more timing advance. Temp sensors are usually negative thermal coefficient thermistors, so you can manipulate the temp reading by varying the circuit's resistance. Tricking the MAP sensor into showing lower than actual manifold pressure may help too since ignition timing is generally retarded under higher loads. Of course the fuel delivery will be affected by modifying the data from any of these sensors, but you should be able to adjust for that to maintain your desired air fuel ratio. Hope this helps, keep up the great work!
Looking forward to another great video from ROBOT CANTINA
I used to work at staurn. I rebuilt a twin cam with flat face valves, had the head milled 20 thousandths, put on an obx header with 2.5" exhaust and some NGK plugs and got 42 mpg. I averaged 30 prior to that. Everything else was stock. Even the air box. Gained tons of HP. And it was a 4dr. Those engines got a bad rap for oil consumption but aren't bad little units.
You can tell it is a dogwood tree from it's bark!
Interesting to learn that Ford was going to dump the old flathead V8 in 1952, and that a young staffer with some cojones talked them out of that. Ford always was too political, at the expense of talented staffers, but at least they listened to this guy
I put like first then watch the video
wiggle in the biggest circumference driver tires that you can fit, and put up with the factory timing
In Las Cruces, you can enjoy the Renaissance ArtsFaire from Nov. 5 to 6. While this isn’t your typical autumn activity, imagine how much fun you’ll have dressing up, taking in the entertainment across two stages, watching historical re-enactments, taking a canoe ride, and dropping your kids at the “children’s realm” before grabbing some much-deserved wine. (Or is it mead? Does it matter?)
I believe that you are helping people in ways that you may not imagine, sir.
I am going through a rough patch in life now, and seeing a new video from you appear in my notifications leads to a very beneficial distraction from my difficulties.
Just being an observer in the process of someone imagining, implementing, measuring, diagnosing and refining technical ideas is helpful to me in ways I can't even accurately communicate.
Thanks!
Love this channel... so fun to watch and learn from the implementing and measuring and diagnosing helps so many folks.
@@mommapanda5736 This may escalate into hyperbole
@@ocdman202 Love the comments here...
To implement sequential fuel injection, you don't really need a camshaft position sensor. You can read the parameters from the ignition coils while doing wasted spark and measuring which cylinder demands more current or something. You only need a camshaft position sensor when you implement variable camshaft phase.
Looking forward to more great videos here at ROBOT CANTINA. 👍👍👍
If for the last 50 years (since the embargo of ‘73), most drivers drove gas sippers like me…
Gas would be 89c, and climate change would be a distant concern
Can't wait for the Saturn wagon videos that's going to be awesome.
That gets better fuel economy than my second gen Prius....
Prius will be my girls when I get married, but I'm looking forward to doing some eco tuning on my Chevy 3500 LB7 once I get it back up and running. Some have gotten 35mpg out of that engine with tender driving and a tune. I may try an electronic throttle like what you got there to negate my lead foot.
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Your channel is full of awesome experiments and content I love it , unusual yes but very fun to watch
Totally agree here... so fun to watch☺☺☺☺
@@kansasrose2909 Looking forward to more from ROBOT CANTINA!
The way they bypassed the need for a cam sensor was to use the resistance of the waste spark ignition on the #4 cylinder on the exhaust stroke to calculate cam position.
What's odd is when these Saturn's throw a code for a non-existent cam sensor. But they can act up with some aftermarket plugs and wires that run low impedence as it gives back improper readings.
Also, haven't watched all your vids yet, but have you tried tricking the egr into opening sooner/staying open longer?
Great content, thanks for putting these together!
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now imagine if you did this on a 3-4 cyl ligthweigth (sub 1200kg) Non American car.
actually, if you're mostly cruising longer rides (especially on motorway) weight has less of an effect on efficiency than you might think. Aero and rolling resistance play a much bigger role here.
You should do freevalve as well. Aka, “electronically controlled pneumatic valves”; such a system can do continuously variable valve timing, lift and duration. Essentially, it’s VTEC on steroids.
90' ECUs should not throw codes even when load signal is quite offset from normal. In 2000s piggyback devices was very popular. I used that kind device to rise power in early VW's 1.8T 20V engine. With installed bigger injectors I decreased maf signal to prevent flooding on low load areas (early 1.8T doesn't have map and even boost was controlled using air flow). With maf signal alteration I need to retard timing because when ECU reads less load and increased timing and that device can shift many types of trigger signal to counteract that issue. I used locally manufactured ecumaster DET3 (full standalone ECUs of that manufacturer are available in USA). Even Craig Liberman's 600-700HP Toyota Supra from Fast and Furious movie was stuffed with ECU piggyback devices.
Sweet this will be great too watch when I'm having breakfast. Now time for some ZZZ's
Have fun!
@@robotcantina8957 👍👍👍👍👍
@@ocdman202 I come here for the videos and stay for the comments..
@@kansasrose2909 I come here for the comments and stay for the fun....
Don’t Use Inferior Parts!
I’ve seen LOTS of poor quality parts fail within weeks or even days of installation. Alternators seem to be one of the most popular. Unfortunately this is one area that you usually do get what you pay for. Once again, doing research on your model (anyone else noticing a trend here?) is your best bet for finding the best parts to use.
I'm going to buy a pair of LC-2s to try and burn e85 ethanol fuel. However in my case I do have access to ignition maps on my Siemens MS43 PCM. It's no lean burn but hey the fuel is cheaper!
I just love your little show.. My 1995 ford escort wagon is now running on propane. I was very disappointed in ford.. the mpg is horrible.. nothing wrong with the car but probably ac use.. gets 30 mpg with gasoline and only 21 mpg with propane.. I have a 1980's mechanical distributor that I think will fit on so.. maybe advanced timing will help? .. come up to Belvue Ks sometime at my Old Country Woodworks shop and check it out...
We sometimes forget how “unnatural” secondary learning is. There is no biological or evolutionary imperative to do mathematics, to read and write, to draw schematics, to chart the stars, or to use musical notation.
The fact that you created a fully automatic system that improves the stock mpg, which was optimized by a team of engineers for several months, is honestly insane. I bet the robot throttle is pretty much exactly the same as the "eco mode" found on newer cars. I watch a lot of car TH-cam and I've NEVER seen someone experiment this much in the pursuit of better efficiency, it's really fun to watch
That's because they engineer for no such thing. All of the engineering is built around emissions compliance numbers at the tail pipe. Clean burning has nothing at all to do with engine A/F ratio relating to power and or fuel efficiency.
@@tcmtech7515 Yes, exactly this!
With engine designs (and ecu tunes) emissions output is #1 priority. MPGs are lower priority, but still a priority none the less. You see manufacturers still have to avarage a certain fleet mpgs not to get slapped by fines.
In europe for example. fleet avarage has to be a certain CO2 (which directly corelates to mpgs) otherwise fines.
We're also talking about 20+ year-old optimization from the engineers, and 20+ years of wear on the engine. Technology has advanced a lot since this car was new.
@@imitt12 indeed, technology has advanced quite a bit since this car was new..
@@tcmtech7515 this isn't exactly true... In modern cars the only emissions equipment on them is that catalytic converter. After that the engine control is so precise it doesn't need anything else. Further fuel gets wasted on survivability, running lean is how you get knock. People like engines that don't explode. Power and efficiency are two sides of the same coin.
What he's doing is overriding the driver behavior, this is fine but you might want a car that accelerates when you press the pedal. Further in modern engines they are hilariously more efficient but, consumers want power and bigger cars. This is the actual issue, car weights keep going up. It is remarkable we can have a 2 ton vehicle hit 30 highway honestly.
I tune engines as a hobby and an in school for engineering. I have spent 100s of hours logging engines. I'm kinda giving a simplified explanation of things. The tldr is cars are getting heavier and faster that's why they don't get better mpgs.
Good night all
Can't speak to the old gm engines but I am familiar with tuning the newer ones. The knock sensor is very important to the engine dynamically finding it's timing. You have a low and high octane timing table. It interpolates that data based on another table that determines the weight and maximum degrees of knock retard. Tldr engines tend to use the knock sensor to optimize the timing table. This value soft resets when the engine reads a full tank.
Thanks for the great content Jimbo!
Looking forward to more from JIMBO...
Just the right mix of info and sarcasm. Kind of like a ToT video.
Put some solar panels on it, used to charge up a battery bank, use the battery bank to produce HHO gas & feed it into the intake to mix with the air/gasoline mixture & see how much you can improve MPGs.
We are looking forward to the next video from ROBOT CANTINA!~
Having a crank sensor only turns the system into a multi port injection. That means fuel injectors fire when the valve is closed as well. This is how piggy back port injection systems work. One such example is called a “split second controller”.
In a 4 cylinder it fires 2 cylinders at a time. 1 and 3 fire at the same time and so does 2 and 4.
Also the ignition system is used as a wasted spark system where it fires the coils during the exhaust as well as compression cycle.
Hope this helps.
Hptuners has Saturn tuning capability. This would be a better option than a piggy back system. I’d be willing to help it here if this is something you are interested in.
Indeed, most engines with just a crank position sensor have the injectors batch fired, but on the Saturn they managed to do true sequential injection. If you look through through comments, someone did a great job explaining the saturn's method of sequential injection. Its bizarre, but apparently it works.
@@robotcantina8957 Love the comments here.
Actually they do have a true sequential injection AND timing. You see, you don't really need a cam sensor to determine each of the cylinder state. You can also achieve that using MAP sensor data. I'm not sure if saturn does it like this (it likely does) but some other euro cars from the alst century do exactly that to achieve sequential inj/timing.
I want to see 100mpg diesel challenge!!!!!
5:03 ...wait until you hear about electronic gaspedals.... they are part of every car now since ~mid 2000's and work in a similar way, just not only focused on fuel economy and with some more sensor-shenanigans...
Sensor shenanigans👍👍👍👍👍👍 just waiting for more videos here.
Oh, a premiere instead of something where I can skip the annoying shit....
trying that restore compression in a can? i know it works but will it help milage?
with aero mods you can easily get 30% more mpg
I only like when there's enough gnome content. hmmpt 🤨