This is incredibly exciting work. Please give us updates as more outcomes of the research are public and thanks to your students for their wonderful playing! I didn't realise the RCM museum was open to the public so I'm going to have to go!
As a recorder player (an alumnus of yours) and also a person who does 3D printing as a hobby, I find this absolutely fascinating! Thank you so much for sharing this and I look forward to hearing more!
Wow! Quite a fascinating video ❤ The idea of cloning historic instruments and repairing them is brilliant, and calling actual musicians as testers is the right thing to do. Sarah's joy and enthusiasm make the rest... Brava!
My mum collected recorders. When I was 50, after she passed, I found all the recorders belonging to me and my siblings in the back of a locked cupboard in a locked room in the attic.
Wow!- interesting to find out in the future what the cracks, etc affects the recorders these 3-d printed ones will help in understanding this. How we'll be able to best preserve the originals in the future.
this is so amazing. I think the next step would be to have modern makers experimenting with the voicing, for instance 3 different makers could work on the voicing using wooden blocks and then compare the results. Vocing styles come and go like a fashion, but it would be really amazing to have an idea of what an historical voicing was. before 3d printing there was not so many space for experimentation on that regard.
That was pretty cool. Great hearing the old instruments and seeing them. The 3d printed ones are a great way of seeing how the old ones were designed and letting the students loose on them to test them out and learn the intricacies of them.
Professor Gabriele makes a very good point that collected instruments are more ornate than the instruments in general use. And while we may recognize this with instruments we are familiar with, we have to beware of a romanticized image of instruments that we are not so familiar with, such of of other cultures.
It is the same with food. Ethnic Restaurants in the US. They usually highlight the best and most festive foods and not so much the everyday common food.
Sarah, In the 1980s maker and player, Fred Morgan, authored a wonderfully hand-illustrated survey of historic recorders. He noted the irregularities in the production of the finest of these instruments. S
@@HeegeMcGee Though I understand to some degree why they would want to gatekeep the research itself, I don't think the scans should be... shouldn't those be public property? It's a museum after all
This is amazing. Imagine the carvings from the artists of 200 years ago in your hands - recorders made for kings ang queens! "You know what I'm going to play" haha.
I was interested in your comments about the life expectancy of recorders. I have a Moeck soprano in Indian rosewood which I have thoroughly abused for many years, frequently playing it outdoors. About 2 years ago I decided to pension it off. After a year or more of it being rested I tried it again and found to my surprise that it was as good as new! Lesson: don't your old recorders away they might have more life left in them!
Such a wonderfully geeky video... I essentially agree with you. These studies are very important to better our knowledge of the instrument, but to play in my room give me a resin Bernolin or an eagle ganassi any time...
Hi Sarah. Thank you for making this video. In my experience long preferably contines fibres makes a big different in how materials resonates in instruments. And this is something powder printers, even though expensive, are not able to make. Other processes are however. I ask you kindly to please consider asking to project manager if they are able and most graciously willing to provide access to some files, even if it is payed access under non commercial license. It would be so interesting to do some testing and experimenting, in ways that might go far beyond the scope of the project. A 3d file would make it possible to look inside the recorder. Making cross sections. Cnc route it out of wood. All kinds of interesting experiments. So please Sarah, would you ask them?
Would be interesting to see what a modern rekord builder could do with this print without the block. Building a mould, casting them in resin with a carved wooden block. That would be a much more economical production method.
This is a great video. But when you say "depth" do you mean more bass frequencies, midrange? Its be interesting to understand where you're coming from in a frequency spectrum as to what you look for. This could also help amateur and smaller recording studio people lock in and help those performances when recorded. Also now they have these scans they can use modern CNC machinery to make wooden copies. CNC is used to create perfect routing of guitars and basses, so I can see it being used for these.
Would highly recommend Adam Savage’s discussion on the Importance of Objects. He goes on about dodos, falcons, and even more challenges about recreating and making the objects we love!
You can 3D print these recorders at home in resin to capture all the details. It will never sound the same as ivory or wood. You could print them in a plastic printer and get a playable version. They will sound different as well. I would recommend printing them solid. It will give better sound. I printed a hollow walled ocarina and it sounds hollow. If you can smooth the bore it will help.
Back in high school I came late to playing clarinet. I tried a recorder but just couldn’t get the feel of it But the chamber music trio stuff we played on clarinet always was so enjoyable. Listening to the ensemble music almost has me digging out my old clarinet. Were it not for essential tremor, I’d probably find it fun. As it is, I’ll take my meds & listen with a smile. Thank you & yiur students for these lovely videos.
Friedrich von Huene (Boston) also studied and made exact copies of both the Jacob Denner Alto and the Johann Wilhelm Oberlender Alto. He was the famous recorder maker who designed the Rottenburgh ( Jean-Hyacinth-Joseph, Brussels) line of recorders for Moeck which are played around the world.
there are many modern makers that claim to make exact copies of historic instruments, but a real exact copy is not really feasible for many reasons, so this 3d printed instrument really fill that niche. The moeck Rottenburg is Rottenburg only by name, it barely resembles an original one.
@@eloycortinez2769 3D Printing wasn't available during von Huene's lifetime. He made exact copies with the original materials (Ivory, Boxwood etc.). His copies were the best that could be obtained during his "modern" era. You should do a little research into von Huene's workshop and workmanship to become more informed. His voice flute period copies are also very highly regarded.
@@toddmurphy523 I owned a von huene instrument for many years, and it was a great instrument, at a whole different level than let's say a moeck rottenburb, I've also own two zen on bressan that I don't play at all(I don't know how that happened). I've also owned copies of rottenburg instruments from other makers that bear little resemblance with the moecks. I've been many times in the von huene workshop, I send my instruments for repairs there, I buy instruments, music and I've avidly read the excellent book by Burges about the shop history, so I think I'm well informed about them. Don't assume things. Back to bussiness, if your listened to the video you should know that one very important reason why it is not feasible to make "exact" copies of original instruments is the pitch, they were at odd pitches 405 etc. I leave it there.
I've had the idea to print a recorder for a couple years now. I actually did but I didn't get the fipple right. I have half a dozen 3D scanners but no recorder so I modeled it from scratch.
It's kind of hard to be supportive when the data is being withheld from the public. People should have access to the 3D scans for their own printing and knowledge, Rather than having the museum judge that the public's equipment can't reproduce it, they should release the files so people can try. After all, the designs are in the public domain simply by their age
On principle I agree with you. The original objects are within public domain as pieces of art. However, on a technical level…a resin printer wouldn’t be big enough for more than a sopranino, and an FDM printer wouldn’t be able to capture the nuance of the sculpts. These are ongoing problems with both models of printer that are being fixed, but then we start talking about the materials they use to make the objects, I.e ceramic and glass, and… The chance to print these would be lovely, but at the moment they need to prioritize their research, and maybe some day we’ll have really good files to use for printers that can keep up with the production!
While having the flutes as a decorative piece would be so cool, as a functional instrument, the 3d printed design won't sound as good as the wooden one, as the optimal design is not the same in those two different materials. But I agree that a public file (specially since they are a historical piece) would be much appreciated
Didn't expect Nuremberg (or Nürnberg in german) to be mentioned in the context of recorders. Really goes to show how much more important some cities were back just few hundred years ago for all kinds of trades
Johann Christoph Denner moved to Nürnberg in 1666, and had his workshop there, with 2 of his sons following him as instrument maker. Not sure about Hieronymus F. Kynseker, whether there is just a great bass recorder of him in the museum of Nürnberg or if he also lived there.
Really fascinating! The instruments were evidently very precisely made originally, they sound in tune. I wonder how the insides were reproduced, I guess 3D-scanning of them is a challenging task, probably impossible. Do they have the wholes of the same diameter from end to end? Are the mouthpieces detachable?
As Gabriele explains in the video, the recorders were scanned at the National History Museum, with a scanner similar to an MRI or CAT scan (that’s where my non medical knowledge of scanners stops, sorry technical people) But they can see inside and out!
Being able to design and print (using UV curing resin) a shakuhachi I proposed the same idea to our local musical instrument museum, but sadly it did not go on. Hope after seeing your video museum will think about it again=)
Epic! So much work on everyone's part to make a mini-documentary like that. Fascinating, too. And you have wonderful students who have a wonderful professor. So, so good! 😃🌈⚧🏳⚧💖
Hi, Sarah! I love your videos. Thank you so much! I have a problem on the alto recorder changing from high notes to low notes. I just cannot go from a D to a low G ... or I can only do it like a third of the time. Any idea of what I can do to improve? Could you maybe address this type of issue in one of your upcoming videos? Thanks so much for considering it!
There would be a big advantage to having it 3-D printed and being able to add more material and fill the holes so it could be drilled or reamed and Modern holes put into it and make it with removable headpiece. They as close to original that I am able to produce off the bambu lab X1 carbon printers definitely leads me to believe if these files are made up available to the public, some very creative recorders could be made and modified because they now have filaments that have wood, glass, ceramic, carbon fibers, copper, aluminum and can be electroplate with silver gold copper and can be done in material that can be heat treated at different temperatures its sound properties. of course there are companies. You can send it out to for more exotic materials. Very interesting and neat video. It really makes me wonder what could be produced and what that would sound like.
Sarah, I appreciate it so much that you have asked if these can be printed at home. Sadly, the usual inexpensive homebrew printers use a 0.4mm nozzle, much too large to represent the minute details. The materials used ale much lighter than ivory too. Professor Gabiele certainly uses some top notch processes to create these replicas!
My $500 resin printer will do less than 50um resolution and I'd love to get these files - density of the material is between wood and abs so would be interesting to see how it goes.
4:44 Wow, extremely generous of him to not only let you touch, but play the original recorders?! A major goal right there. 🎯 8:45 "Professional printers cost £1,000,000s" I personally believe that this could be printed with a high quality printer at home that does not cost 1,000,000s. 🏡 Would not be intricate, but could get the job done. 15:40 If you said she was your daughter, I would absolutely believe you. 👀The resemblance she bares with you is incredible. They should try 3D printing with ABS and PETG, as well. 💡 Somewhat random, but I cannot believe that we are in Year 2024 and plastic great bass recorders still do not exist! 😠 Perhaps someone should start 3D printing high quality great bass recorders out of ABS. 🙏🏾
Very nice! Any chance of me getting my hands on these models (stl, step, obj, whatever)? I obviously don't have an SLS printer or similar, but I'd love to try to print one on my X1 Carbon, just for the fun of it :)
For the wooden originals, how can you tell what the dimensions are if they were played-in? Can one account for the bore changes that one would have if they were broken-in? Even on my well-cared for recorders, I can tell that the dimensions change significantly depending on how much I've played them lately. So for something not played for hundreds of years, it must be pretty dried out, no?
Interesting, at 17:00 you compare the replica with the modern one with a scale, for me the replica made some alternating pitches that sounded like it would blow my earbuds, while the modern one was always getting closer to that point, but at the end it didn't got as close as the replica
it is possible to have a supply problem with boxwood or woods used for making such instruments. In this case, 3D printing could be a good solution. However, as you mention well, these 3D-replicated instruments are not adapted to the requirement of the player, for example, works on the holes, like undercuttings. For me, the best compromise would be to print complete closed blocks bodies of instruments, and perform holes on it with the same boring technique used by instruments makers to build wood instruments. During this phase, it should be possible to voice instruments, and make it sound better, having in mind the precise requirements of the player
I do not know who said that "according to physics, materials should not affect sound.." That is obviously not true, I mean, even an engineer should know that different materials have different oscillation properties due to the density and flexibility of any given material. I am a physicist and mathematican, so..., I guess something probably has been misunderstood because this is like basic material physics, stress and so on, which any engineer or science student goes through. Regardless, lovely music!!
Loved hearing your students. Great. The microphones do not do justice to these instruments. The sound pales compared to a handmade recorder. When will you be moving to 443 or 444 Hz?
I'd love to see a concert or recital where the restored and unrestored copies are played in a blind test for the audience, to see how much the acoustic properties' degradation are perceivable and not just measurable.
@@Resgerr What makes you think that some of us don't have that type of 3d printer available to us? besides you could use the 3d printer files to create other blueprints for different technologies like 5-axis CNC. Just because you don't already own one of these printers doesn't mean that they don't exist.
The compromise solution would be to "print" the entire body, but leave the manufacturing of the block and the "voicing" in the hands of artisans, just as it would have been at the time.
Yes, that would be fab! And kind of related to collaborations we see between recorder makers these days- Morgan bodies revoiced by Nicolaj Ronimus, Eagle bodied voiced by Doris Kulossa and Francesco Li Virghi I believe?
quello che mi ha colpito di questi flauti è che hanno tutti i fori della stessa dimensione e non come un flauto barocco comunque sono molto interessanti
This is a fascinating video, but your audio levels are frustratingly wide! The video starts very quiet, so i adjust my volume up. Then the advert hits, and it's bombastic. Back to talking... 6:21 will blow you out of your seat with how loud it is! Please add some compression and normalization to your videos, i'm sure there is some software that will make this easy for you.
I think this is a perfect time to state the following scientific FACT: good quality wooden recorders do NOT sound any different than good quality plastic recorders. Not only does science prove it with physics but also with triple blind tests where the professional instrumentalists were shown to be completely unable to tell the difference in sound (and many believing the plastic was wood).
@@Team_Recorder Hi Team Recorder - I'll dig it up and provide a link. It was based initially on the physics i.e. there is no resonance chamber from which sound vibrates and therefore not the source of sound - making the chamber irrelevant right off the bat. Rather the flute derives it's sound by how air moves over a surface. The study is fascinating in the sense that they concocted an ingenious way of having the professional flutists play without giving away the materials of the flute.
Some other fascinating things also stuck out to me that I remember from the study: The unskilled listeners scored (albeit insignificantly) better than the skilled musicians! Also order of hearing. For example, in another study with Stradivarius, it was more often than not the second instrument heard from a group that was preferred...no matter the maker. Another amazing thing that stuck out - they actually used weights so that the contraption used would balance itself out so that no variance would be felt between the individual three types of material. Wow. There were two groups I believe if I remember - one of just listeners (both skilled and unskilled) and a group of skilled musicians who sounded the instruments themselves. I also think the study was metal vs wood but the conclusion applies to plastic as well because construction not material determines the quality of a flute - both sound and playability. I think though that aural perception is based on many factors and psychological can't be underestimated. If one feels a connection to a certain material, I think that will have a perceptive difference...even if it's not an actual difference!
I was not aware of a test done with recorders, but of an experiment on modern Boehm flutes, all of the same brand and headjoint cuts/ geometric values, but different materials from silver plated, silver, 2 different gold karat levels and platinum. 7 professional flute players played them, some 40 professional flute players, the 7 among them, listened. Goal: identify the material. They did several test regarding volume and other parameters and found out that difference from 1 player to the next is far bigger then within the same player to next model. And virtually no one was able to reliably recognize the material as a listener, the test players no better than their colleagues! Put that into stark contrast with what every flute player will tell you! Maybe the reason is that you recognize a difference while playing, being so close with your ears and maybe feeling your face cavities resonate. But it does not project or travel to 3m further away to an audience? Likewise as a recorder player I claim lots of differences between my recorders (though I don’t own any 2 identical models), but how far does that translate into physical measurements from an audience perspective?
It is too bad they do not share the 3d models publicly of these important historical instruments. The home printer technology is on par with the industrial machines now with resin printer resolutions in the microns now. Even with a standard FDM printer I have produced decent playable ocarinas and recorders from models freely available.
Looking at the ornate carvings of these recorders, it’s a wonder that no recorders throughout the ages have been made neither from whale bone nor whale teeth - similar to the intricate artwork of scrimshaw? 🤔
Hi Mrs Sarah. You are such an amazing teacher and mentor. Because of you, the recorder is officially MY INSTRUMENT, and I have been playing it now for 2 years. Please ma, I was wondering if you could do free recorder giveaways. I'm from Nigeria and for the past 2 years, all I've got is only the plastic soprano recorder. I've searched for musical instruments shops where I could get an Alto recorder, but no shop had. I'm not even sure if there is a shop in Nigeria that sells all kinds of recoders. Ma, I really need an Alto recorder (whether it be plastic or wooden). This is why I asked if recorder giveaways would be possible.
I have done giveaways in the past, but I fear that customs and taxes costs from Europe would get way too high! Does anyone else from my viewers have experience with buying recorders in/ordering to Nigeria? ❤️
@@Team_Recorder Oh! It's alright Ma. I'm sure one day, I'll get other kinds of recorders. Although I am very grateful to you for replying me. This is my second time at commenting on your videos. You didn't reply me on the previous video, but your reply to me here really makes me feel honored. Thank you so much Ma.
I really love this documentary, thank you uploading.
You’re very welcome
Thank you, Professor Jeffery, for such an interesting and enlightened discussion about these historical recorders.
OMG! Larli is AMAZING! Those gorgeous grace notes! *melt*
This is really interesting! Can't wait to see future incarnations of printed instruments and facsimiles of precious older instruments. Brilliant!
This is incredibly exciting work. Please give us updates as more outcomes of the research are public and thanks to your students for their wonderful playing!
I didn't realise the RCM museum was open to the public so I'm going to have to go!
As a recorder player (an alumnus of yours) and also a person who does 3D printing as a hobby, I find this absolutely fascinating! Thank you so much for sharing this and I look forward to hearing more!
Wow! Quite a fascinating video ❤ The idea of cloning historic instruments and repairing them is brilliant, and calling actual musicians as testers is the right thing to do. Sarah's joy and enthusiasm make the rest... Brava!
Wow! Shivers down my spine. That's a really good use case for 3D printing! Thanks for the really informative presentation of this history project.
Really interesting! Thank you Sarah 😄
Your student plays beautifully at 15 minutes
Thank you, Sarah. Fascinating.
My mum collected recorders. When I was 50, after she passed, I found all the recorders belonging to me and my siblings in the back of a locked cupboard in a locked room in the attic.
Wow!- interesting to find out in the future what the cracks, etc affects the recorders these 3-d printed ones will help in understanding this. How we'll be able to best preserve the originals in the future.
this is so amazing. I think the next step would be to have modern makers experimenting with the voicing, for instance 3 different makers could work on the voicing using wooden blocks and then compare the results. Vocing styles come and go like a fashion, but it would be really amazing to have an idea of what an historical voicing was. before 3d printing there was not so many space for experimentation on that regard.
That would be so cool!
ooh, cutting edge research!
That was pretty cool. Great hearing the old instruments and seeing them. The 3d printed ones are a great way of seeing how the old ones were designed and letting the students loose on them to test them out and learn the intricacies of them.
Very interesting. Another place added to my list I one day would want to visit.😊
This is so good. Love it. ❤❤❤
Thank you Sarah, for your amazing work with these videos! Love your channel!!
Professor Gabriele makes a very good point that collected instruments are more ornate than the instruments in general use. And while we may recognize this with instruments we are familiar with, we have to beware of a romanticized image of instruments that we are not so familiar with, such of of other cultures.
It is the same with food. Ethnic Restaurants in the US. They usually highlight the best and most festive foods and not so much the everyday common food.
Sarah,
In the 1980s maker and player, Fred Morgan, authored a wonderfully hand-illustrated survey of historic recorders. He noted the irregularities in the production of the
finest of these instruments.
S
Awesome! Very nice dive into a wonderful world, beautifully explained, as always!
Fascinating video - I've been to the Musical Instrument museum and found it so interesting.
They should make the 3d scans available to download. There are online 3D printers of much better quality than home printers that could be used.
These likely were HP MJF machines based on the materials and look.
The university is likely withholding the research in order to sell access to it - license the models to a manufacturer for example.
@@HeegeMcGee Though I understand to some degree why they would want to gatekeep the research itself, I don't think the scans should be... shouldn't those be public property? It's a museum after all
If they're withholding the models, I hope they're eventually forced to open-source them
I imagine they receive public funding... you'd think ethically they would not gatekeep / paywall it. Who knows tho
This is amazing. Imagine the carvings from the artists of 200 years ago in your hands - recorders made for kings ang queens! "You know what I'm going to play" haha.
Fascinating video. Thank you, your Students and the museum team.
Congratulations on your professorship. 👍🏿
I was interested in your comments about the life expectancy of recorders. I have a Moeck soprano in Indian rosewood which I have thoroughly abused for many years, frequently playing it outdoors. About 2 years ago I decided to pension it off. After a year or more of it being rested I tried it again and found to my surprise that it was as good as new! Lesson: don't your old recorders away they might have more life left in them!
Very interesting. Thanks for bringing this to the public. Your students are all very talented.
Such a wonderfully geeky video...
I essentially agree with you.
These studies are very important to better our knowledge of the instrument, but to play in my room give me a resin Bernolin or an eagle ganassi any time...
Hi Sarah. Thank you for making this video. In my experience long preferably contines fibres makes a big different in how materials resonates in instruments. And this is something powder printers, even though expensive, are not able to make. Other processes are however. I ask you kindly to please consider asking to project manager if they are able and most graciously willing to provide access to some files, even if it is payed access under non commercial license. It would be so interesting to do some testing and experimenting, in ways that might go far beyond the scope of the project. A 3d file would make it possible to look inside the recorder. Making cross sections. Cnc route it out of wood. All kinds of interesting experiments. So please Sarah, would you ask them?
Would be interesting to see what a modern rekord builder could do with this print without the block. Building a mould, casting them in resin with a carved wooden block. That would be a much more economical production method.
That was brilliant. Thank you Sarah.
This is a great video. But when you say "depth" do you mean more bass frequencies, midrange? Its be interesting to understand where you're coming from in a frequency spectrum as to what you look for. This could also help amateur and smaller recording studio people lock in and help those performances when recorded.
Also now they have these scans they can use modern CNC machinery to make wooden copies. CNC is used to create perfect routing of guitars and basses, so I can see it being used for these.
Would highly recommend Adam Savage’s discussion on the Importance of Objects. He goes on about dodos, falcons, and even more challenges about recreating and making the objects we love!
You can 3D print these recorders at home in resin to capture all the details. It will never sound the same as ivory or wood.
You could print them in a plastic printer and get a playable version. They will sound different as well.
I would recommend printing them solid. It will give better sound. I printed a hollow walled ocarina and it sounds hollow. If you can smooth the bore it will help.
Back in high school I came late to playing clarinet. I tried a recorder but just couldn’t get the feel of it But the chamber music trio stuff we played on clarinet always was so enjoyable. Listening to the ensemble music almost has me digging out my old clarinet. Were it not for essential tremor, I’d probably find it fun. As it is, I’ll take my meds & listen with a smile. Thank you & yiur students for these lovely videos.
Friedrich von Huene (Boston) also studied and made exact copies of both the Jacob Denner Alto and the Johann Wilhelm Oberlender Alto. He was the famous recorder maker who designed the Rottenburgh ( Jean-Hyacinth-Joseph, Brussels) line of recorders for Moeck which are played around the world.
there are many modern makers that claim to make exact copies of historic instruments, but a real exact copy is not really feasible for many reasons, so this 3d printed instrument really fill that niche. The moeck Rottenburg is Rottenburg only by name, it barely resembles an original one.
@@eloycortinez2769 3D Printing wasn't available during von Huene's lifetime. He made exact copies with the original materials (Ivory, Boxwood etc.). His copies were the best that could be obtained during his "modern" era. You should do a little research into von Huene's workshop and workmanship to become more informed. His voice flute period copies are also very highly regarded.
@@eloycortinez2769 von Huene also was the original designer of the ever popular Zen-On Plastic Recorders after Bressan using modern pitch A=440.
@@toddmurphy523 I owned a von huene instrument for many years, and it was a great instrument, at a whole different level than let's say a moeck rottenburb, I've also own two zen on bressan that I don't play at all(I don't know how that happened). I've also owned copies of rottenburg instruments from other makers that bear little resemblance with the moecks. I've been many times in the von huene workshop, I send my instruments for repairs there, I buy instruments, music and I've avidly read the excellent book by Burges about the shop history, so I think I'm well informed about them. Don't assume things. Back to bussiness, if your listened to the video you should know that one very important reason why it is not feasible to make "exact" copies of original instruments is the pitch, they were at odd pitches 405 etc. I leave it there.
@@eloycortinez2769 OMG....are you an Ann Arbor resident? I am in West Bloomfield.....🙂
A fried of mine who sings in a local top-notch early music chorus is a big fan of the cornetto and 3D printed cornetto.
This is great. Thank you so much for this video.
I've had the idea to print a recorder for a couple years now. I actually did but I didn't get the fipple right. I have half a dozen 3D scanners but no recorder so I modeled it from scratch.
It's kind of hard to be supportive when the data is being withheld from the public. People should have access to the 3D scans for their own printing and knowledge, Rather than having the museum judge that the public's equipment can't reproduce it, they should release the files so people can try. After all, the designs are in the public domain simply by their age
On principle I agree with you. The original objects are within public domain as pieces of art. However, on a technical level…a resin printer wouldn’t be big enough for more than a sopranino, and an FDM printer wouldn’t be able to capture the nuance of the sculpts. These are ongoing problems with both models of printer that are being fixed, but then we start talking about the materials they use to make the objects, I.e ceramic and glass, and…
The chance to print these would be lovely, but at the moment they need to prioritize their research, and maybe some day we’ll have really good files to use for printers that can keep up with the production!
While having the flutes as a decorative piece would be so cool, as a functional instrument, the 3d printed design won't sound as good as the wooden one, as the optimal design is not the same in those two different materials. But I agree that a public file (specially since they are a historical piece) would be much appreciated
Didn't expect Nuremberg (or Nürnberg in german) to be mentioned in the context of recorders. Really goes to show how much more important some cities were back just few hundred years ago for all kinds of trades
Yes! And Nuremburg has a fantastic recorder department now.
Johann Christoph Denner moved to Nürnberg in 1666, and had his workshop there, with 2 of his sons following him as instrument maker.
Not sure about Hieronymus F. Kynseker, whether there is just a great bass recorder of him in the museum of Nürnberg or if he also lived there.
@@corneliaippers603 thanks for the info!
Really fascinating! The instruments were evidently very precisely made originally, they sound in tune. I wonder how the insides were reproduced, I guess 3D-scanning of them is a challenging task, probably impossible. Do they have the wholes of the same diameter from end to end? Are the mouthpieces detachable?
As Gabriele explains in the video, the recorders were scanned at the National History Museum, with a scanner similar to an MRI or CAT scan (that’s where my non medical knowledge of scanners stops, sorry technical people) But they can see inside and out!
That is fascinating.
Being able to design and print (using UV curing resin) a shakuhachi I proposed the same idea to our local musical instrument museum, but sadly it did not go on. Hope after seeing your video museum will think about it again=)
Best sound from the ceramic version ;-)
Easily better than any of the 3D printed recorders I'd previously heard, though I'd heard other 3D printed woodwinds that sound pretty good.
are the scans available for public download?
Epic! So much work on everyone's part to make a mini-documentary like that. Fascinating, too. And you have wonderful students who have a wonderful professor. So, so good! 😃🌈⚧🏳⚧💖
That was brilliant, thank you ❤
17:15 Why does the fourth note in the scale have different fingerings between the two recorders?
very cool !!
Thanks a lot for sharing this.
Hi, Sarah! I love your videos. Thank you so much! I have a problem on the alto recorder changing from high notes to low notes. I just cannot go from a D to a low G ... or I can only do it like a third of the time. Any idea of what I can do to improve? Could you maybe address this type of issue in one of your upcoming videos? Thanks so much for considering it!
Why 3d printing and not cnc milling so you can use a much wider variety of materials?
Very nice video! (please consider putting plosive compressor on interviewee's mic's as I had a few unpleasant moments when he blew in the mic)
There would be a big advantage to having it 3-D printed and being able to add more material and fill the holes so it could be drilled or reamed and Modern holes put into it and make it with removable headpiece. They as close to original that I am able to produce off the bambu lab X1 carbon printers definitely leads me to believe if these files are made up available to the public, some very creative recorders could be made and modified because they now have filaments that have wood, glass, ceramic, carbon fibers, copper, aluminum and can be electroplate with silver gold copper and can be done in material that can be heat treated at different temperatures its sound properties. of course there are companies. You can send it out to for more exotic materials. Very interesting and neat video. It really makes me wonder what could be produced and what that would sound like.
How interesting!
Sarah, I appreciate it so much that you have asked if these can be printed at home. Sadly, the usual inexpensive homebrew printers use a 0.4mm nozzle, much too large to represent the minute details. The materials used ale much lighter than ivory too. Professor Gabiele certainly uses some top notch processes to create these replicas!
Asked and answered at 8:52
There are some pretty impressive printers out as well as smaller nozzles. Personally I would still like to give it a try.
My $500 resin printer will do less than 50um resolution and I'd love to get these files - density of the material is between wood and abs so would be interesting to see how it goes.
@@russellmcgifford4151look at the length of the main piece though, not many resin printers have that big of a printing area
I have 0.1 nozzles for my home printer. Managed to print admiral Nelson to fit on the top of Lego Nelson column which was single stud.
It sounds like they were using SLS printers with powder material. These do not create a very smooth finish on the model.
4:44 Wow, extremely generous of him to not only let you touch, but play the original recorders?! A major goal right there. 🎯
8:45 "Professional printers cost £1,000,000s" I personally believe that this could be printed with a high quality printer at home that does not cost 1,000,000s. 🏡 Would not be intricate, but could get the job done.
15:40 If you said she was your daughter, I would absolutely believe you. 👀The resemblance she bares with you is incredible.
They should try 3D printing with ABS and PETG, as well. 💡 Somewhat random, but I cannot believe that we are in Year 2024 and plastic great bass recorders still do not exist! 😠 Perhaps someone should start 3D printing high quality great bass recorders out of ABS. 🙏🏾
Very nice! Any chance of me getting my hands on these models (stl, step, obj, whatever)? I obviously don't have an SLS printer or similar, but I'd love to try to print one on my X1 Carbon, just for the fun of it :)
Loving he fact that there are 3 recorders in the case at 1:53, but….. just one Cornetto. Now I fancy an ice cream for some reason
Ooh the cornetto should be 3D printed soon too!
Amazing video thank you!
I wonder if they will ever make the .stl files available.
I'd like to take a crack at it and see what kind of "low quality" I come up with.
Such an interesting video!
So interesting... Definitely subbed here.
Remember my suggestion for 3D printing Recorders way back when you launched your Channel Team Recorder?
For the wooden originals, how can you tell what the dimensions are if they were played-in? Can one account for the bore changes that one would have if they were broken-in? Even on my well-cared for recorders, I can tell that the dimensions change significantly depending on how much I've played them lately. So for something not played for hundreds of years, it must be pretty dried out, no?
Interesting, at 17:00 you compare the replica with the modern one with a scale, for me the replica made some alternating pitches that sounded like it would blow my earbuds, while the modern one was always getting closer to that point, but at the end it didn't got as close as the replica
Are the 3d files at sale or for disposable for free ? Grtz Tom
How do they handle printing/recreating the windway and labium etc, where so much of the magic happens?
it is possible to have a supply problem with boxwood or woods used for making such instruments.
In this case, 3D printing could be a good solution.
However, as you mention well, these 3D-replicated instruments are not adapted to the requirement of the player, for example, works on the holes, like undercuttings. For me, the best compromise would be to print complete closed blocks bodies of instruments, and perform holes on it with the same boring technique used by instruments makers to build wood instruments. During this phase, it should be possible to voice instruments, and make it sound better, having in mind the precise requirements of the player
I do not know who said that "according to physics, materials should not affect sound.." That is obviously not true, I mean, even an engineer should know that different materials have different oscillation properties due to the density and flexibility of any given material. I am a physicist and mathematican, so..., I guess something probably has been misunderstood because this is like basic material physics, stress and so on, which any engineer or science student goes through.
Regardless, lovely music!!
Loved hearing your students. Great. The microphones do not do justice to these instruments. The sound pales compared to a handmade recorder. When will you be moving to 443 or 444 Hz?
Oooo. How could I get either the files or buy a 3D printed cornetto?
The files aren’t available I’m afraid and the project is still ongoing- but do keep an eye on it for further info!
I'd love to see a concert or recital where the restored and unrestored copies are played in a blind test for the audience, to see how much the acoustic properties' degradation are perceivable and not just measurable.
I believe blind testing will be done at some point soon!
Very interesting
Thankyou.
Вы с Лали как сестры! :)
I love this but no one ever shares the files to print them :-(
A home 3-d wouldn't be good enough to print these, unless you have a thousands of pounds pro one.
@@Resgerr What makes you think that some of us don't have that type of 3d printer available to us? besides you could use the 3d printer files to create other blueprints for different technologies like 5-axis CNC. Just because you don't already own one of these printers doesn't mean that they don't exist.
@@johnfunk4313 how do you know what 3-d printer I have or not- you just made assumptions. This is for research , not making a fast buck.🙄
Actually I do have access to 5 Printers and two of them are well over 1000$us and again it was for fun.
So in the museum, they put 🎵Just one Cornetto🎵 🍦🇮🇹 in the display case 😂
Hi Sarah, by any chance would you have the 3d print files for a nice 415 tenor? Thanks.
They do sounds good, but I feel the originals has a mellowness to them the replicas don't. It might just be in my head, though.
The compromise solution would be to "print" the entire body, but leave the manufacturing of the block and the "voicing" in the hands of artisans, just as it would have been at the time.
Yes, that would be fab! And kind of related to collaborations we see between recorder makers these days- Morgan bodies revoiced by Nicolaj Ronimus, Eagle bodied voiced by Doris Kulossa and Francesco Li Virghi I believe?
hey Sarah do you know which apps to use when transcribing music
Soo- I am not finding the 3D models anywhere... One would think being a museum and all they would be available, maybe I am missing something?
Daphne is your standard test piece?
Do we need to address you as Professor Jeffery from now on?
Of course 😌
quello che mi ha colpito di questi flauti è che hanno tutti i fori della stessa dimensione e non come un flauto barocco comunque sono molto interessanti
We live in the future! Where's my flying car?
What scale does a baroque recorder use? I guess it’s not equal temperament.
This is a fascinating video, but your audio levels are frustratingly wide! The video starts very quiet, so i adjust my volume up. Then the advert hits, and it's bombastic. Back to talking... 6:21 will blow you out of your seat with how loud it is! Please add some compression and normalization to your videos, i'm sure there is some software that will make this easy for you.
I think this is a perfect time to state the following scientific FACT: good quality wooden recorders do NOT sound any different than good quality plastic recorders. Not only does science prove it with physics but also with triple blind tests where the professional instrumentalists were shown to be completely unable to tell the difference in sound (and many believing the plastic was wood).
Would LOVE to read this study! Where did you read it? And who were the professional instrumentalists? It woupd be great to hear their experience.
@@Team_Recorder Hi Team Recorder - I'll dig it up and provide a link. It was based initially on the physics i.e. there is no resonance chamber from which sound vibrates and therefore not the source of sound - making the chamber irrelevant right off the bat. Rather the flute derives it's sound by how air moves over a surface. The study is fascinating in the sense that they concocted an ingenious way of having the professional flutists play without giving away the materials of the flute.
Some other fascinating things also stuck out to me that I remember from the study: The unskilled listeners scored (albeit insignificantly) better than the skilled musicians! Also order of hearing. For example, in another study with Stradivarius, it was more often than not the second instrument heard from a group that was preferred...no matter the maker. Another amazing thing that stuck out - they actually used weights so that the contraption used would balance itself out so that no variance would be felt between the individual three types of material. Wow. There were two groups I believe if I remember - one of just listeners (both skilled and unskilled) and a group of skilled musicians who sounded the instruments themselves. I also think the study was metal vs wood but the conclusion applies to plastic as well because construction not material determines the quality of a flute - both sound and playability. I think though that aural perception is based on many factors and psychological can't be underestimated. If one feels a connection to a certain material, I think that will have a perceptive difference...even if it's not an actual difference!
I was not aware of a test done with recorders, but of an experiment on modern Boehm flutes, all of the same brand and headjoint cuts/ geometric values, but different materials from silver plated, silver, 2 different gold karat levels and platinum. 7 professional flute players played them, some 40 professional flute players, the 7 among them, listened. Goal: identify the material. They did several test regarding volume and other parameters and found out that difference from 1 player to the next is far bigger then within the same player to next model.
And virtually no one was able to reliably recognize the material as a listener, the test players no better than their colleagues!
Put that into stark contrast with what every flute player will tell you!
Maybe the reason is that you recognize a difference while playing, being so close with your ears and maybe feeling your face cavities resonate. But it does not project or travel to 3m further away to an audience?
Likewise as a recorder player I claim lots of differences between my recorders (though I don’t own any 2 identical models), but how far does that translate into physical measurements from an audience perspective?
You Should have Sampled the Originals with Spit Fire Audio crew.
It is too bad they do not share the 3d models publicly of these important historical instruments. The home printer technology is on par with the industrial machines now with resin printer resolutions in the microns now. Even with a standard FDM printer I have produced decent playable ocarinas and recorders from models freely available.
I can understand how the wooden ones would deteriorate over time, but I thought the ivory ones would hold up.
Looking at the ornate carvings of these recorders, it’s a wonder that no recorders throughout the ages have been made neither from whale bone nor whale teeth - similar to the intricate artwork of scrimshaw? 🤔
Hi Mrs Sarah. You are such an amazing teacher and mentor. Because of you, the recorder is officially MY INSTRUMENT, and I have been playing it now for 2 years. Please ma, I was wondering if you could do free recorder giveaways. I'm from Nigeria and for the past 2 years, all I've got is only the plastic soprano recorder. I've searched for musical instruments shops where I could get an Alto recorder, but no shop had. I'm not even sure if there is a shop in Nigeria that sells all kinds of recoders. Ma, I really need an Alto recorder (whether it be plastic or wooden). This is why I asked if recorder giveaways would be possible.
I have done giveaways in the past, but I fear that customs and taxes costs from Europe would get way too high! Does anyone else from my viewers have experience with buying recorders in/ordering to Nigeria? ❤️
@@Team_Recorder Oh! It's alright Ma. I'm sure one day, I'll get other kinds of recorders. Although I am very grateful to you for replying me. This is my second time at commenting on your videos. You didn't reply me on the previous video, but your reply to me here really makes me feel honored. Thank you so much Ma.