The Army Sizes of Westeros (Stark, Lannister, Baratheon, Tyrell, Greyjoy, Arryn & Tully)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ต.ค. 2024
- Did you know in the books we actually know how large each of the armies belonging to the 7 Kingdoms are? This short uses evidence from A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, A Dance with Dragons and The Winds of Winter.
A Game of Thrones theory explained, prepare for The Winds of Winter release date with a theory video of George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire book series and something to think about while waiting for HBO's House of the Dragon Season 2.
Check out Fantasy Flight's A Game of Thrones Digital Edition Boardgame: store.steampowered.com/app/1075190/A_Game_of_Thrones_The_Board_Game__Digital_Edition/
Support our channel by signing up to a 30 day free trial of Audible using this link: audibletrial.c...
For all business inquiries please email us on - video.books3@gmail.com
Magali Villeneuve: magali-villeneuve.com/
Ertac Altinoz: artstation.com/ertacaltinoz
Chasestone: chasestoneart.com/
Naomi Buttelo: artstation.com/naomimakesart
Amuelia: artstation.com/amuelia
Warp Speed: warp-speed.tumblr.com/
Riotatttherite: riotarttherite.tumblr.com/
Jaydeewis: jaydeewis.tumblr.com/
Lauren K Cannon: navate.com/
Karla Ortiz: karlaortizart.com/
Teilku: deviantart.com/teiiku
Dani Naimare: artstation.com/daninaimare
John Picacio: johnpicacio.com/
Marc Simonetti: art.marcsimonetti.com/\
Chillyravenart: deviantart.com/chillyravenart/
Bruce Zhang: artstation.com/wwhiloveu10022
Inna Vjuzhanina: deviantart.com/inna-vjuzhanina
Ioan Dumitrescu: artstation.com/ioandumitrescu
Jose Daniel Cabrera Peña: artstation.com/thrax
Didier Graffet: artnet.com/artists/didier-graffet/
Zippo 514: deviantart.com/zippo514
Josu Hernaiz: josuhernaiz.com
Dennis Maznev: deviantart.com/denkata5698
Juan Carlos Barquet: artstation.com/jcbarquet
Dani Naimare: artstation.com/daninaimare
Stefan Kopinski: stefankopinski.com
Ted Nasmith: tednasmith.com/biography/
Hikaru Yagi: artstation.com/yagi
Waldemar Pietka: artstation.com/pietka
Daniil Yuminov: artstation.com/daniil1235
Amuelia: amuelia.tumblr.com/
Patrick Jensen: artstation.com/patrickjensen
Antonio J. Manzanedo: artstation.com/ajmanzanedo
Mike Capprotti: artstation.com/capprotti
Joshua Cairos: artstation.com/joshuacairos
Levi Pinfold: levipinfold.com/
Nachomolina: deviantart.com/nachomolina
Ammotu: www.deviantart.com/ammotu
InfernalFinn: deviantart.com/infernalfinn
John Matson: matson-art.myportfolio.com/projects
Filipe Pagliuso: artstation.com/filipe-pagliuso
Ryan Cassidy: artstation.com/ryancassidy
Cristi Balanescu: artstation.com/cristib
Westling: deviantart.com/westling/gallery
Leesha Hannigan: artstation.com/leeshahannigan
Astri Lohne: artstation.com/sjursen
Steamy: deviantart.com/steamey
John Jude Palencar: muddycolors.com/
Liu Huan: artstation.com/liu_h_
themico: deviantart.com/themico
Javier Bahamonde: artstation.com/bahamondeart
Lino Drieghe: artstation.com/linodriegheart
SpiderWee: artstation.com/spiderwee
René Aigner: artstation.com/reneaigner
BellaBergolts: deviantart.com/bellabergolts
Jon Neimeister: artstation.com/andantonius
Dalisacg: deviantart.com/dalisacg
AbePapakhian: deviantart.com/abepapakhian
Pail Youll: paulyoull.com/paulyoull.com
Jordi Gonzalez Escamilla: artstation.com/jordi_gonzalez
Tomasz Jedruszek: artstation.com/morano
Karakter: artstation.com/karakter/albums/7437
Bidonicart: bidonicart.tumblr.com/
Savaivkov: deviantart.com/savaivkov
BCValdez: deviantart.com/bcvaldez/gallery/43604665/game-of-thrones
Mark Evans: cloudmover.net/gamecards/slideshow-5/agot.html
Even Amundsen: artstation.com/mischeviouslittleelf
Gary jamroz-palma: artstation.com/gary
Darek Zabrocki: artstation.com/zabrocki
Nick Kalinin: deviantart.com/nickkalinin/
lily_estudio106: deviantart.com/lily-estudio106
Sebastian Giacobino: artstation.com/giacobino
Florian Biege: artstation.com/florianbiege
WaterSorcerer: deviantart.com/watersorcerer
Philipp Scherer: artstation.com/philippscherer
Curtana: deviantart.com/curtana
Chad Weatherford: chadweatherford.com/
Kieran Belshaw: artstation.com/the_duellist
Cyril Tahmassebi: serylconcept.com/
Charles Lee: charlesartstation.artstation.com
Karl Simon Gustafsson: karlsimon.com/
Aaron Miller: aaronbmiller.com/
Evgeny Kazantsev: artstation.com/zamenabatareek
Jonathon Burton: jonathanburton.net/
Shunyi Zhou: artstation.com/zhoushunyi
Sergi Sarichev: artstation.com/sarichev
Sheppi TSRodriguez: artstation.com/shevi1437
Smirtouille: deviantart.com/smirtouille
Ryan Valle: artstation.com/rvalle
GibiLynx: deviantart.com/gibilynx
Julepe: deviantart.com/julepe
Alexandra Ovsyankina: artstation.com/alex5228
Sprrow: deviantart.com/sprrow
Kep Trefler: keptrefler.com/
Sheraz Art: fineartamerica.com/profiles/sheraz-ahmad
LynxMB: deviantart.com/lynxmb
Tyrells in books: probably the richest and the biggest house with more then 100.000 men at service.
Tyrells in Game of THrones series: we just keep like 1000 men in our castle, we have grandma, her son, two children and that's it.
We are Tyrells, we fight terribly because of our sigil
That's not how a castle works. You can't keeps 1000s because you need to house and feed them and the whole of a castle is that you need few men to defend it for a long time. I have more problem with the show pretending castles aren't really a significant thing.
@@verward He's implying there should have been a massive field battle, and a brutally long siege with the amount of numbers in play here. But they tried to do their own thing because the fans wanted more seasons, so they made up some trash TV and plots that were forced and on x5 speed. Not stuffing 100,000 men in one castle. Obviously.
Felt more like there was just the granny and her maid in the castle.
@@verward I mean what they did n Winterfell, for instance. Tyrells had much more men then what Starks gathered in 8 season, but at Highgarden they only showed castle garrison and no Tyrell army. If they sent absolutely all their armies just to lay siege to the capital, then this is terribly stupid.
“The Stormlands are the most ravaged and depleted after the war.”
*Riverlands has left the chat*
Yeah.. this is why I came to the comments. I'm pretty sure not a single battle was fought in the storm lands lol
Everybody with Stannis died reply army fell apart
You might be right but after the WOFK, Stormlands had no ruler because all the Baratheons and almost all Robert's bastards were killed.
@@coldhands2802yeah but a good amount of the stormlords and their men were killed at the defeat of kings landing
@@killcomis and if it follows medieval army composition, most of it would be peasants which left their fields undermanned not to mention lack of soldiers/authority will lead to stability issues
The Riverlands have been affected most by the War of The Five Kings, most of the fighting took place there.
yea i agree not sure where he got stormlands
@@henryattre4910 probably because Stannis' Army got obliterated by the Wildfire and Chain trick at the blackwater, and the rest got ambushed by the Tyrells and Tywins army from behind, Some also turned cloak when they saw Renly's ghost or swore fealty to Joffrey after the battle. He only has about 2,000 men left when he attacks Mance Rayders army of 40,000 wildlings, then bolsters it with Northern Mountain Clansmen, Glovers and some Karstarks. He should be getting a good amount of sellswords too after the Iron Bank decided to back him
I mean they're the most affected by any war because of geography. The riverlands borders the Vale, the westerlands, the Crownlands, the North and is one of the closest kingdoms to the ironborn. Every other region can basically camp a corner meanwhile the riverlands is getting railed from all sides.
@@mappingshaman5280Facts but so savagely delivered 😂
@@mappingshaman5280
You forgot the Reach.
After Total War: Warhammer I'd kill for a Total War: Westeros.
It's honestly baffling how they're not licencing it to games
I want a Total War: Westeros game. Not a mod but a actual full game.
Yes yes yes! This is what we need!
I'm still waiting for the Lord of the Rings total war...
@@niccologregorutti yes! We also need this!
Riverlands having no strategic defenses. Rip massive rivers that serve as natural barriers and/or chokepoints where you can have small forts defending crossings.
It’s not just that. It’s mostly because they are in the middle of like 5 other regions plus the Iron Islands. So even with the rivers it’s very difficult for them to defend. At the start of the War of the Five Kings they had the Westerlands to the west and the Crownlands to the Southeast and even add in the Stormlands even though it’s not directly connected because even though they weren’t fighting at the time Stannis considered the Riverlands and the North traitors. Add in the Iron Islands able to do raids including down the rivers themselves plus later the Tyrells joining the Lannisters. And even the Vale was not truly neutral and so you have to watch the East too. The Riverlands will burn in House of the Dragon too, pretty much every major war in Westeros is fought in the Riverlands and there is even a joke that the Riverlands are so fertile not because of the rivers but because of all the blood split. They are just to centrally located so even with the rivers slowing armies down it’s just too much land to cover and honestly rivers aren’t as big of a natural obstacle as mountains in the Westerlands and the swamps of the Neck.
You even have problems of the Riverlords famously squabbling amongst each other like Bracken and Blackwood and the Freys not being reliable. The Tully’s are also probably the weakest Great House. They have only been lords of their own region since the conquest and the Freys can actually field more men directly than the Tullys can and Mallister, Bracken, and Blackwood can field about the same compared to all the other regions where vassals can be powerful but not as strong as their Great House Leige Lords.
@@xiaoxin2859thw riverlands United under a competent king is very defensive they have the same defenses as all the other kingdoms but on the other side of them, the ironborn cant raid down river as they have to get past seagard first and more the riverlands is the most underdeveloped region due to the stupidity of its lords
@@durrangodsgrief6503Not ironically, you are absolutly right on it being extremely underveloped. Several towns in the Riverlands SHOULD HAVE BECOME LARGE, PROSPEROUS CITIES CENTURIES AGO, but never received a charter to allow it by their kings (Fair Market is an example).
Though Tristrifer IV was an amazing strategist who defended his entire realm ALONE AGAINST THE COMING OF THE ANDALS, he sadly, his resources were finite unlike his enemies, eventually he too fell
I think he is right the riverland as a region has nature and terrain do not help in defence, but yes you also right Riverrun the Castle is one of the most Impregnable castles in that world thanks to its location between two rivers, as we read the towns and forts of the region fell easly into Jamie Lannister hands, only Riverrun Castle was Impregnable and can withstood three years under siege easily, cause the attacking army also had to be divided on three banks around the castle.
@@fildariusv7045 no house Justman was better to me any man that can unite Blackwood and bracken is a deity
80,000 men and Jaime just walks down to High Garden 😢
That’s why the show was bad
With a minor house like Randall tarley’s horn hill was enough to help Jamie walk in there without the high towers who can really muster lot of people as well having nothing to say about that😂. Most of the reache,s strength comes from the high towers and high garden. How Randall tarley did that will be a mystery.
It's also one of the strongest keeps in Westeros 😂
With targaryen loyalist wildcard tarly not to forget 😂
@@tanman49 we are led to believe apart from tarly a good chunk of their lords betrayed the tyrells becuase they hated the dothrakis. That would gimp teh tyrells, particularly becuase tarly's the only real soldier they aparently have.
Still the show is shit, but i have to give due where it's due. They could have explained that the lords they were keeping in the reach were the ones that turned cloak , but even for that they were stupid.
"The show has very few numbers and is inconsistent with those same numbers." 💀
Edit: Holy, sh*t. Thanks for the 10k likes.
That's quite literal. The starks have like 3 men without their bannermen in the show
@@Carlos-sy8hz and Jamie kills one of them in s1, so they have 2 when the war starts 😂
Remember drothraki reproduce via mitosis
@@dodojesus4529😂😂
@@dodojesus4529thank you for the theRussianbadger Ork(?) Mitosis joke😂
Thank goodness roose shrunk the size of Rob's army. Easier to count
The reason he only has 20000 men is because it takes months maybe even a full year to get the full strength in the north and his river lands army has been fighting the longest and a lot of them are dead
@@johnpauldriskill8737 someone missed the joke I see.
@@ivanbluecoolNo I understood it I was just letting you know that reason no need to be a dick
@@johnpauldriskill8737if that's the reason why does nobody in the North have any men after the red wedding?
@@mappingshaman5280 depends if you are asking about the show or books, in the show the north cant raise more armies but in the books there are still houses with considerable strength of arms left, which is why in the books the Boltons did the whole Arya is alive and married to Ramsey in order to solidify their claims and keep the north at bay. Plus many of the nobles have family members held prisoners at the Twins and Kings landing.
20 good men is all i need
Unless they're bigger, more buff versions of Hercules, then no, they probably won't be all you need
@@OreoOreoCookie234404 didntgetjoke
@@GoodRanchers.404 didntgetjoke
sad how no one gets what u said lol
@@peterpanda4296 lmao is it a line from the show? Mb
In the books, the biggest armies mustered and confirmed are
The North: 30 000 under Torrhen Stark. This was after having years to gather men and forces. (Fire and Blood)
The Vale: 20 000 just between six of their most powerful houses (AFFC), so they can raise well over 30 000.
The Westerlands: 35 000 between Jaime and Tywin initially (A Game of Thrones), with Stafford Lannister being able to muster a third (A Clash of Kings). So over 50 000 is reasonable.
The Riverlands: Never raise more than 11 000 at a time (Fire and Blood). In the Dance of Dragons they raise 4 000 and 6 600 respectfully. And in the War of the Five Kings, Edmure is able to raise 11 000 to fight Tywin at the Fords, this excluding the 4 000 Freys and the Mootons. Even if you double their numbers due to Casualties, they shouldn’t be able to raise more than 20-30k.
The Stormlands: In a Dance of Dragons they raise 6 000, and raise 7.5k to destroy the first Vulture King, and that’s with 3 of the marcher lords alone. So they can person raise 15-20k.
The Crownlands: Kings Landing raises 7500 men (excluding sellswords) to defend it from Stannis whilst Stannis has 5 000 men from the Crownlands before his army gets boosted. So between 12.5-15k is reasonable
The Reach: 80-100k pretty much.
The Iron Islands: A longship in this world apparently holds 33 men a ship (Asha had 1000 men on 30 ships and Theon 250 on 8) and the ships of the iron fleet are three times the size. So the Iron Fleet alone has 9 900 men. The iron Islands should be between 15-20k.
Dorne: Raises 10k on short notice for the Battle of the Trident. Robb is able to raise 20k of a possible 30k in the north on short notice so say the Dornish are similar and can only raise 15k in infantry, and if the usual 75/25 split of infantry to cavalry seen in this world is true; then they can only raise 20k in men.
Typically the total army size is bigger than the advancing or offensive army size. In real history they usually let half their army defend the homeland from an invasion during the war. Not sure if that is stated somewhere but it would make sense that if Robb marched 20k soldiers to the south that 20k soldiers remained in the north, considering how big the north is.
@@Grivianeso tiene sentido pero cuando robb marcha al sur prácticamente deja al norte sin defensas, los hijos del hierro conquistan varias fortalezas de manera fácil y las defensas norteñas por castillo no suelen ser de un poco más de una centena de personas
Wtf. What are you talking about? Cregan gathered 20,000 men, if you add the wolves of winter are another 2,000 and a few more that the Manderlys took to protect Rhaenyra. if the campaign should not have involved more than 23,000 men in the dance, in total the north I doubt very much that it can gather an army greater than 30,000 as Torrhen did.@@svg3876
@@svg3876 Sorry mate but this is an outright falsehood. I've read Fire&Blood and it never outright states the number of men Cregan marches south with. And it definitely can't be the case since no numbers during the Dance of the Dragons are WAY lower than that. The Baratheon barely gather more than 7 000, the Lannisters have no more men left to defend their lands from the Greyjoy raiding after an army of 8 000 men is destroyed in the Riverlands. The Riverlands raise two armies from out of nowhere and still only barely pass 10 000. No ways could Cregan have Come south with anything CLOSE to that. And you don't use children for army numbers, that is such an outlier that it very RARELY happens.
The undead army : THEY ARE BILLIONS!
Wow, I did not think the Iron Islands had that many troops. I always thought they were a small house and could only muster up a force of like 4k-10k soldiers, not 20k-30k 😂
It’s not a house it’s a ton of islands that used to be it’s own kingdom and rule most of the river lands and parts of the storm lands
@@madsursin
Well yeah, but by the time of the main series, it's been around 300 years since Houee Hoare has fallen, and they lost all that land.
So I mean, just saying, House Greyjoy should have like, 10k at BEST
@@thalmoragent9344 That number probably includes all the sailors? I reckon a lot of their manpower would be for the ships.
Small, but very militarised. Basically like 90% of free men are combat capable.
Reminder: nearly all iron men were sailors. They have serfs for mining and farming. So, when in feudal society only 1-2% can fight, on Iron Islands it is probably much higher number.
@thalmoragent9344 Probably (8,000) but round up to 10k to (16,000) round up to 20k would be more realistic, and a total population at a minimum of 1 million to a tops of 3 million give or take a few hundred thousand each way.
Edit: The 3 biggest islands are bigger than Crete, whose capital city alone had a population of some 300k about 2,000 years ago.
In the coming books i think the army of the vale with little finger having sansa he can lay claim to the Riverlands and the North and with the knights of the vale he can probably take it
riverlands yes but not the north, as of now jon snow is robb's heir bcz of which the north would never support sansa and if they find out that rickon is alive then there is no way innhell they will support sansa.
even if the moat is in a sorry state, the neck can still ward off any attacks from the south
Exactly and Sansa can then team up with anyone after that and bring along 3 Kingdoms with her 👍
@@lelouchvibritannia8997only a few people know of robb’s will. It’s not common knowledge. As far as most lords know, Jon is the bastard lord commander of the nights watch not Robb’s heir. Plus Robb only named Jon heir because he believed bran and rickon to be dead. There’s no way in hell the northern lords would back a bastard nights watch deserter over a trueborn son, hell they probably wouldn’t back him over a trueborn daughter.
@@lelouchvibritannia8997 rickon and skagos is still one of my favourite mysterious in westeros
@@lelouchvibritannia8997 true. Moat Cailin is still a formidable choke point. But I feel like little finger is smart enough to find his way around it. He could trick the north into going further south or going further north. Maybe littlefinger sends a small army by boat and attacks Karhold or somewhere else. Or lands by eastwatch by the sea and invades from toward the south from the north while his 2nd army is at the neck pushing to the north from the south.
Either that or he could convince the north to move south past the neck with a clever trick, then littlefinger could go right up through.
I do not think little finger is smart enough to take over the north AND hold it though.
I just think little finger could probably trick the north and get the upper hand on them.......but eventually he would lose the war. I guess kind of like how Robb tricked Twyin with the whole greenfork and whispering woods battle, it was a brilliant plot and strategy and Robb got the upper hand in the beginning and won those first intial battles......but in the end, he lost the war.
I could see something similar happening, little finger wins the first few battles with clever tricks and is able to get his army in the north......but then he eventually loses the war because of his arrogance, overconfidence and just not knowing or understand the ways of the north and their culture which causes him to miscalculate his battle plans. Or the winter just gets to him and the cold causes his army to fail. Like little fonger uses tricks and deception to gey his army in the north, and he gets super overconfident but then north lets him take it and waits for winter to gey really cold and then tricks little finger and little finger loses
Both the Riverlands and the North are definitely more ravaged and depleted after the WotFK. I would even argue that the Stormlands come in fourth after the Westerlands, because the Stormlanders actually saw fairly little fighting (basically only the Blackwater, very few men follow Stannis north)
Its still a colossal feature for dorne and greyjoys. Those few rocky barren islands, and desert people can master strengh third the size of developed cities and fast farmlands
Dorne cannot muster that much,Doran constantly lied about his numbers because he wanted the other realms to think that Dorne was more powerful than it actually was. The Iron Island however are quite impressive,mostly because the majority of the population can be recruited because they don't have farmers
Dorne has coastline. Australia is mostly desert, hence most people live near the coast. As for the iron islands, it's said they breed alot with their saltwives to keep their numbers up. I assume they're mostly feeding them with whale meat and trade. What they're trading beats me tho...whale oil and barnacles I guess
@@jcdenton7261 I don't think the Iron Islands trade,simply because that goes against the concept of paying the Iron Price. They probably have a subsistence economy heavily dependent on fishing and mining (they are called Iron Islands so I guess there is some iron there to mine) and then they use the resources they already have on their soil such as trees etcetera to build houses and ships,make clothes and forge weapons
@niccologregorutti9309 they definitely trade. All that Balon talk about paying the iron price is him just being an old c*** thinking they're all that
@@jcdenton7261 but if they traded they would have no reason to pillage and ravage the coast of Westeros, which would preclude any trade between them and the people that suffered their ravaging
It's confirmed by Martin than it's between 40 000 and 45 000 for the North.
Oddly enough, Dorne have a similar strengh, the Vale, the north and Dorne have been said to have basically the same strengh numbers-wise.
As for the Greyjoy, it's closer to 20k then 30k.
Dorne has a lot less, Doran lied to the realm claiming he has 50,000 spears but in reality he only has 30,000 men. You see this in the Arianne chapters.
@@CheeseCrumbs00 I talk of what Martin claim, and yes it surprised me.
From the asoiaf wiki, Dorne have roughly the same military strength as the North or Vale.
It's kinda insane to me how Balon though he could defeat Robert with only his forces. Did he thought the rest of Seven Kingdoms had no ships?
@@henriquecesardesouzasilva8766he thought that other noble houses like Dorne, Lannisters, and Tyrells would also rebel against the throne after he declare war. He mistakenly thought King Robert's reign is weak and other houses probably would like to be independent now Targaryens are gone.
@@henriquecesardesouzasilva8766his first move was to take Seaguard to prevent a counter attack by sea but that was a huge failure with his idiot oldest son and that changed everything
I love how dorn was completely forgotten on the show lol 😂 also I love how the white walkers almost completely defeat the north but at the end they somehow still have a huge army. The guys in charge of the final season were definitely spending all the writing time reenacting sex scenes from the show with each other
Lmao mate lmao
I’m curious where he got those numbers. Because even before the Karstarks marched back north Robb only had about 25,000 men. While Twin had 20,000-30,000, Jamie had 10,000-20,000 and a Lannister family member was mustering an additional 50,000 men.
Robb won a huge battle by having Bolton march on Tywin with a majority of the infantry, while he snuck around and set an ambush for Jamie. Which resulted in the battle of the whispering wood and then the battle of the camps where Jamie’s army was separated and easily picked apart by Northern Cavalry men.
Bolton lost quite a few men but being experienced made an orderly withdraw.
After that Robb snuck through the Westerlands behind Tywin’s lines and ambushed the mustering army at night. Slaughtering nearly the entire host.
When Margery was arrested by the High Sparrow her father Mace brought the entire Tyrell army from high garden and has his army camped outside Kings landing over a 100,000 strong.
I also think the Iron Born numbers are exaggerated as well. They don’t have those types of numbers. When Asha pleaded with Theon to yield Winterfell and retreat to the coast she said they didn’t have the numbers and their strength relied on quick raids and retreating to the sea.
Im not sure. But I do know where robb got more soldiers, since I did just read the 1st book and am on the 2nd book now.
When robb was marching to riverrun he started amassing a much larger army. During the travel to riverun a bunch of sellswords, free rides, hedge knights and small houses and a bunch of other people joined up with robb because the sight of his army marching to riverrun gave them hope. Even robb was surprised, and it was a pretty lucky thing, because if I remeber right, robb was starting to lose people along the way at first traveling to river run and was getting worried if he would have enough men, but then all of the sudden a whole bunch of sellswords, hedge nights, free riders, and small houses ended up joining his army during the march to riverrunans at the point the book said his army was bigger than ever im pretty sure. Because I remeber it was from catelyns point of view and she was thinking about how it capmed her nerves and was very happy how things were working out and it eased her worry and made her prpud of robb because of how so many people ended up joing his army during the march to river run.
You are forgetting one thing: Not everyone was following Robb at that time + he wanted to keep some in reserve. Robb mostly needed to rely on the Riverland forces as well. The North didn't fill their entire army.
Karstarks didn'f field all their men
Umbers didn't field all their men
Dustins and Ryswells didn't field any men.
The Neck didn't field any men (Probably on Robbs orders, as they are the first line of defense)
Boltons didn't field all their men
Not all Northern clansman where present
Mormonts didn't field all their men
Manderleys did field a huge amount of men, but did keep some in reserve.
Hornwoods didn't field all their men.
Tallharts didn'f field all their men
So the North probably can muster around 40/50.000 men if everyone contributes everything.
Robb didn't have enough time to muster his full strength . The North is vast, and it would take a year at least to get 50,000 soldiers.
He in fact got a lot of the information wrong and also forgot The Crownlands…
Tywin had 20k, jaime had 15k besieging riverrun. Stafford was mustering only 10k, those were smashed by robb.
People not understanding that these houses can’t just have their full armies roused 24/7 is absolutely insane
That's why they weren't involved in the writing phase, let alone any other stage in production of a medieval fantasy TV show.
Nightking: Thats cute “Your armies will make a fine addition to my collection!” 😈
Arya: "Hold my Knife"
@@Lightsoul1987And the Night King did hold Arya Stark's knife...in his chest before going into pieces.
Sega should make a total war game about Westeros. GOT have a so big potential.
I honestly can’t believe there hasn’t been a real GOT game made. There’s some shitty one but it’s not an actual game really
@@LegendOfKhaos12is the board game bad? It looks pretty good
Just get the mods
@@raymondacbot4007 I'm talking about a real game not mods, Yeah some mods are really good but after all they are just mods. it will be better if we see actually a total war game about GOT.
@@raoizawn Yeah, I don’t think CA is ever gonna return to this type of Total War unfortunately. Mods are the best option, they are very well made and almost indistinguishable from a new instalment of Total War
In the books Quentyn offered Daenerys 50 000 men from Dorne if she marries him. But also Prince Doran said to Arienne, Dorne is the less populated kingdom in Westeros. So how its working?
??Lying is possible??
Also it depends on how many man they mobilize. If they mobilize every man or just as much as needed because you still needs farmers to produce, Smiths and so on. Maybe that's why in GOT in series Robb Stark mobilized "only" 20 000 men but could mobilize more.
Doran straight up lied to Quentyn about the population of Dorne. He confirms this in an Arianne chapter.
It's a propaganda move. In order to make his conquest of Dorne more grandiose, and justify his hard time taking it, Daeron the Young Dragon made the claim that Dorne could mobilize 50000 men. The Dornishmen, after kicking out the Targaryens and reversing the conquest, decided that they would just, yk, not correct that claim. They made it seem as if Dorne had more power than it actually could muster. Smart.
Doran has been lying to everyone, a close kept secret
More importantly: where was Westeros when the west fold fell!
Tell me… why should we ride to the aid of those who did not come to ours?
😂
You way overstated Dorne’s military. 25K is the number they want their enemies to believe, but Doran informs Arianne that Dorne can only muster 15K spears
They raised 10k in short notice for the battle of the trident and ur telling us their max is 15k?! Bruh
@@BALLARDTWIN yeahhh... 10k on short notice vs scraping the entire barrel out?
@@BALLARDTWINthey don't need big army because desart will take care about any big army invading then , it will need crazy supply and it will be impossible to siage a city
Don't forget the navy, where the marines could double as infantry men in a pinch. I believe Stannis as Master of Ships had roughly 5-8K available to him from the Dragonstone levy + the majority of the Navy defecting to Stannis at the beginning of the War of the Five Kings. Though this number is tough to digest considering it likely contains 1. The Navy Marines, 2. The odd lord who defected in the Stormlands, 3. Those of the Crowlands who defected to Stannis, particularly the island / coastal holdings, 4. What Florent Loyalists were able reach Stannis' army before being overwhelmed in the Reach.
Dorne may not have a large army but you have to fight the environment more than them.
Do memso jeito o norte
King Aegon 1 learned that the hard way
That's true of the Vale, and the North as well. Both of those regions are almost impossible to invade from the south or in the Vale's case at all. the Reach and Stormlands are the region that are easiest for an invading army to march through which is one of the reasons both of these regions can muster so many men.
@@ktvindicarewell Said
unbroken for a reason ❤
Night king:Hold my beer!!
I want a Robert's rebellion series 😢😢
yeah but they'd probably politicise it to high hell, and since all the major players are allready established in terms of race and geneder even apearance, yeah I doubt they'd be able to do it in a respectable manner
After HOTD is complete the next live action spinoff is most likely gonna be about the Blackfyre rebellions.
@@jay-t1030 I thought they were doing Dunk and Egg?
@@istoppedcaring6209I hate that politics in movies, shows, and games shit with a passion and those who support it…
@@CatotheEthey are but GRRM said they have a few prequels in the works. One of those is Aegons conquest
As I've said before, if the show were to be 100% accurate to the books they'd need four times the episodes, 10 times the budget, and it would suck due to information overload, nobody would be able to follow who's who and what's going on.
You're right!
I would personally have loved it and I think it would just come down to more episodes, but i can see why it wouldnt be the best fit for television so it might be hard to finance
Considering the show generated billions it might have been possible lol. But yeah it probably would have been a little confusing for the average TV watcher.
IT NEEDED MORE EPISODES
it didn't need the god-awful, made-up, waste of time Dorne arc
@@jacksonmiller1383no way I’m hell the show made billions. Maybe close to a bil. But no way it hit billions
More Accurate Numbers:
North: 35,000
Vale: 35,000
Riverlands: 40,000
Westerlands: 45,000
Crownlands: 15,000
Reach: 70,000
Stormlands: 30,000
Dorne: 25,000
Iron Islands: 10,000
I love how in Feast, Doran says that Dorne is the less populated kingdom, and yet they still have aprox. 10k more men than the Iron Islands. Not even the characters in the book care for the Iron Islands 😂
Crownlands and Daenerys armys would be interesting aswell as kingslanding alone
Crownlands are about 10,000. They were in the original short but had to be cut to make the short under 1 minute
There is a few hundred goldcloaks inflated to around 2k by Cersei hiring anyone she can find
How is the Stormlands the most ravaged after the war, there weren't even any battles there
The Blackwater must have been hecatomb for Stormlands' army.
Because the Stormlands are divided. Not only during Robers Rebellion, but also during the War of the Five Kings. Baratheons don't seem to have that much of a grip on the Stormlands as they want to let us believe.
The Riverlands: Roughly 45,000 (House Frey has more soldiers than most of the house in the region having a total of 4,000, 1,000 knights and 3,000 foot soldiers.
The Vale: As many as 45,000 and +100 ships.
The Reach: 80,000-100,000 and the Redwyne Fleet of 200 Warships. House Hightower of the city of Old Town once rallied and army of 9,000.
The Iron Islands: 20,000 warriors and the Iron Fleet composed of 100 galley sized longships armed with scorpions nd spitfires.
Dorned: It is believed they can field 50,000 men though that it was and exageration to make the conquest of Dorne seem more Impressive, however their military power is considered comparable to that of the North and Vale.
The Westerlands: They can field an army 50,000 though sending that amount to the field leaves their land vulnerable, however with their wealth, they can increase their army through the hiring of sellswords and hedge Knights. Their Naval power is considered around 50-60 ships.
The Stormlands: They can field 30,000 soldiers, the lords the live in the marches that divide Dorned and the Stormland such as from House Swan, Selmy, Caron and Dondarrion are acclaimed for their bowmen.
The Crownlands: 10,000-15,000. The Goldcloaks of Kings Landing is around 3,000-6,000. Naval Power is the Royal Fleet.
The North: Their power is similar to that of Dorne and The Vale. In a short time they can roughly field 20,000 it once rook it them 2 years to field and march an army of 40,000. House Manderly at White Harbor has a small Fleet around 35 to 40 ships.
Something important to remember is that those numbers are scraping the pantry and full mobilization that strips all your farmers, herders, and infrastructure. Most of the Kingdoms can only muster about half their high end numbers.
Lol meanwhile in ancient China a single bandit could probably muster 1 million men to fight his emperor's 7 million men
In the end these numbers are not that much important or at least they don’t tell you, what you might think they tell you. Everybody supposes, that this is the number of men that could be mustered in total, but I think, it means, that this is the size an army from the kingdoms would have, meaning an army from the Reach would usually have 80,000 men (more then everyone else, since they have good roads and a good supply of food). Else it would be totally unrealistic, and GRRM has a certain knowledge of history and historic warfare). Westeros is around the length of South America, so much bigger then England. In the Wars of the Roses England lost around 200,000 men and it is generally said, that this was a war, which scarcely effected the commoners. And there is never a mention of big economic problems in for example the North (besides that some of the land is ravaged by armies) even though a good half of the supposed strength that the North could muster died in the south. Which concludes, the North can field armies of around 50,000 max, but if 50,000 die, they still have 50,000 and more to replace them, same with any other kingdom. But this only accounts to the commoners, which amount to the balk of this armies, not for the men-at-arms (knights or non-knights with the equipment of knights) or the nobles and lords (the educated and trained for leadership and warfare).
Its insane how George thought those were sensible numbers for a medieval world. Meanwhile in our medieval time, It was the King, his brother and Steve against the other 3 dudes of the rival kingdom.
it's like if George combined the hectic periods of Medieval China's population with European culture and just ran with it.
In the battle of Grunwald between Polish Kingdom and their allies and Teutonic Order supported by many Holy Roman Empire states fought well over 25 thousand on each side. The biggest battle of War of roses had more than 50 thousands of participants. And if you remember that Westeros is a whole continent those numbers seem pretty accurate. Not to mention Almost 150 thousand people fought in the biggest battle of Romand times.
I mean, it's his fantasy world, he can do with it what he wants I figure. But it also kind of makes sense?
TL;DR: Westeros has a culture of absolute rule, army logistics are still a pain in the books, and no winter makes everything easier.
Let's start by saying that Medieval Europe could actually raise massive armies. The first crusade had like 60k-100k total participants. But Medieval Europe couldn't raise big armies *regularly* for these reasons:
- Logistics: not enough food in locations in order to support armies bigger than 10k for long. The Romans beat this with massively complicated logistics, roads, forts, etc
- Political fragmentation: even the 'major powers' were limited, due to their rulers having to compete with major lords all the time. France had small armies, because a lot of lords didn't come to the King's aid when he asked for it, same with the HRE. The English had to transport their armies over water, which is crazy expensive.
- Winter and harvest. Armies would go out between spring and autumn, so that the peasants could sow their crops, go fighting, and return to harvest in autumn and sit down for the winter.
All of these issues don't exist in Westeros, which is also bigger than Western Europe so it can support more people. But also:
- Logistics are discussed in the books, and its a reason why the armies keep splitting up, so that they can spread their living off the land and get enough food for their men;
- Power is way less fragmented, due to 300+ years of absolute monarchy enforced by dragons. Not a lot of rebellions for this long creates a culture of obedience to absolute power. This does break down in the books and show, but it's nothing compared to the Byzantine Empire or the HRE in the Middle Ages, where civil wars and palace coups happened thrice a week it seems. This means, when Robb Stark calls his bannermen, they almost all come to him, same for the other great lords.
- There is no winter. Food grows year-round, and armies can campaign year-round because they won't freeze in the winter. There's way more food available and growing everywhere because it doesn't all die off in winter.
@@JD7Rockefeller I mean it's debatable if there were actually >50,000 at Towton.
Even if there were, it's an anomaly in regard to other battles of the time period, and the Lancasters couldn't raise another army of any meaningful scale for years.
It seems that were anomalies in terms of usual medieval army composition are the norm in Westeros. Which is interesting.
The ancient times were obviously different
@@finndaniels9139 Well it was only a civil war of one country . As I said Grunwald had something like 60 thousand participants. Armies above 30 thousand weren't unusual.
So let me get this straight in the books Rob had the 50000 Northern men plus the 45000 to 50000 men from the Riverlands ? no wonder he never lost a battle Tywin was basically fighting an army with twice his forces that's even more troops than Renly ...
no he didnt he have 22 k own men 8 k from riverland and 4 k of frays but army was split in half before reaching twins so he did have about 23 k when he atack jamy lanister army at riverlands (Jamie army was about 20 k at this point but split into 3 camps)
also there was waiting for aproxy 20 k ppl from vale but they never came
No he had around 20,000 men + 4,000 men from the Freys, there’s also the Tullly Army which was another nearly 20,000 men but the Tully forces were just busy defending the Riverlands which were most of the war’s fighting occurred
Speaking of inconsistencies, let’s talk about how just the neck is the size of Scotland horizontally.
Westeros is way oversized for how quickly people get around. It’s unwieldy. You could fit like 50 scotlands in Westeros
From what I've read the Lannisters can muster about 60,000. Tyrells is 70000. The Starks, Arryns, Tully, and Baratheons are similar at about 40-50 and the Greyjoys and Dornish are around 25-35.
From what you read where? Those numbers are certainly not from the armies they have in the books except fornthe tyrells.
If the North can muster 50,000 men, and Rob marched south with only 18,000, with 1/5 making it back home after the war (probably mostly Bolton men) which means if the North is ever united again it can still field a pretty strong force in the later books.
No idk what this video is talking about, they cannot muster 50,000 men, in the books we can see the toll the loss of 20,000 men in the War of the Five Kings has on the North, there’s still some fighting men left in the North but not much and the Northenr houses are struggling to raise enough men
Here are the populations and army sizes of the 7 kingdoms:
1. The North has 4 million(M), so 40,000 troops max
2. The Vale has 4M, 40,000 troops
3. The Riverlands have 4M, 40,000 troops
4. The Westerlands have 5.5M, 55,000 troops
5. The Reach has 12M, 120,000 troops
6. The Stormlands have 2.5M, 25,000 troops
7. Dorne has 2.5 M, 25,000 troops
8. The Crownlands have 2.5M so 25,000 troops
9. The Iron Islands have 1.5M so 15,000 troops
Keep in mind that these are theoretical maximums that would take weeks or months to muster in the most ideal circumstances so normally the kingdoms go to war with far less. The proportions of the army sizes of the kingdoms are relatively consistent though.
The Iron Islands have a very small population comparatively, but they have more warriors do to the culture. There are few farmers , and the Ironborn would often prefer stealing rather than making things them selves. Also, any sailor is a warrior in the eyes of the Ironborn.
Yeah agreed. Robb went to the Riverlands with only 25.000 men, since not every single house fielded every available soldier and some houses didn't even contribute (The Dustins and the Ryswells probably be choice and the Neck probably on Robbs orders, since they are the first line of defense if the Riverlands fall) and not all Mountain clans contributed either.
Those are about in line with my estimates. I would argue westerland and vale populations are smaler 4-4.5m but they are are able to field more men due to the nature of their economies. Especially westerlands which is much heavier in mining. No one will die of hunger if there are less men to mine the iron, silver and gold especially if the lords break open their vaults and pay people and buy food.
Tywin likely kept the largest semi professional army employed. While the rest of the lords relied more on calling up their knights and eventually levies if needed.
@@joshuabeckham2387 Yeah. The Stormlands are somewhat similar in that regard as they stand out for having a larger warrior culture even in Westeros. This is why the greatest knights mostly hail from the Stormlands. They are also marcher lords so before Dorne was brought into the fold they were constantly at war. A greater concentration of knights in an army would be a game changer and overall a bigger advantage than a few extra troops from feudal levies. Robert Baratheon and many others I imagine proved this. Also, certain kingdoms like the Crownlands and the Stormlands usually work together. Natural defense is pretty important too. It allows a country to be held with fewer men. Stannis Baratheon held Storm's End with 500 starving men.
The population-to-army percentage seems very consistent here, 1% of the population in every kingdom are military personnel.
I live in Korea, but East Asia is strange to see that the number of large armies raised by ancient Western kingdoms is tens of thousands. Among the ancient kingdoms of East Asia, China in the early 7th century raised 1.13 million troops in the war against the kingdom of Goguryeo, and since then, the war has been clashed by hundreds of thousands of troops, so 50,000 people seem very small.
Im German
The Vale and Dorne are still untouched but a battle between these two armies likely won’t happen
Big Rob was onto something when he said "one army,one leader one perpuse"Imagine the combined might of Westoros
a song of ice and fire needs a fullmetal alchemist brotherhood treatment
You mean like the first anime, because George is probably never going to finish his books?
it pretty much did get the fma 2003 treatment, except worse.... GRRM won't be here to long enough for Game Of Thrones: Brotherhood, i'm afraid
And Asian Countries 💀☠☠, I just give an example of the battle of Ankara. Tamerlane The Great vs Bayezid The Thunderbolt. Temurid Empire, 200 000+ soldiers and 32 War Elephants 🐘. Ottaman Empire, 160 000+ soldiers. (For information both sides didn't bring their all armies, Temurlane The Great left his lots of soldiers in Azarbayjan because of Golden Horde and also he left his most troops in his capital city, Samarkand because Golden Horde's King destroyed all of Temur's lands in Azarbayjan and Samarkand while Temur was in wars)
Numbers aren't always to be trusted Stannis beat Mance's 100 000 army with only 1500 men
But the big players in the winds of winter will most likely be
Jon Snow with 4000 wildlings
Stannis with less than 5000 men
The Boltons with 4000 +1500 Frey men
The Riverlands Freys have about 2 500 who might go to war with each other
The Vale with 45 000 men
The Lannister's have around 20 000 men
The Reach has 50 000
The golden company has 10 000 men
Euron has 900 ships
Dorne probably has 15-20 000 men at most
Dany right now she has 8 000 unsullied with 2000 storm crows, 500 seconds sons, 100 Victoreons ships and the Tattereds Princes unknown number of sell swords as well... She will likely get 100 000 Dothraki screamers, the support of Norvos courtesy of Quentyn and possibly the support of Braavos with their 30 000 men maybe more but I don't know how many she will have left as she going to deal with Volantis, Yunkhai, Pentos, Tyrosh and Qarth
Stannis didnt beat Mace. Mace besieged Storm End where Stannis was hold out for the entirety of Roberts Rebellion in an attempt to stay as neutral as possible during the war. Hence he was labelled a coward afterwards, albeit it was a clever political move. There was no actual fighting taking place at Storms End between Mace and Stannis.
@@Tamam_Shud mance Raider
The support of Bravos in unlikely simply because they hate valyrians (Bravos is founded by ex slaves of Valyria), Dany doesn't have much chance, at the moment she steps on the lands of Westeros she loses Essos since she's a weak ruler and untrusted by the nobility back there.
I don't think Wildling was that many after battle of the Wall
Meanwhile :-
Daenerys: But i have a dragon🐲,
Gimli: Doesn't matter, it would get count as one.
😅😅😅😅😅
You forgot the Free Folk who contributed around 100,000 to the Night King’s army.
It shouldn’t have mattered. Dany and Jon should’ve had a army 80 k strong with dragons and around 40 k of Calvary on top of that. But no. The show had a putrid 18k during the long night. What a joke
Wasnt really an army. More just pure population including women and children
westerlands: 35k among Jaimy and Tywin. Jaime's half army managed to retreat after he got capturet so in 15k alsmot half was those Jaimis troops while others were green boys and lanisport city watch, basicly sceaping the bottom of the barrel. So real numbers for Westerlands is 35k-40k.
North: Biggest northern armies were mastered by Toren Stark and Cregan Stark. Both 30k. so north number is 30k-40k becouse we inclode poeple they left for farming, defence of north and mountain clans+skagos becouse they usualy dont answer calls.
Tyrels: 80-100k is accurate
riverlands: same as north 30k-40k, never was mastered that many. alwaays devided during war.
Dorne: 10k-30k. we dont know numbers realy.
Stormlands: 15k-20k. Stanis had all stormlands with him + some from Reach + some from dragonstone and he had like 20k+
Vale: same as north and Riverlands- 35-40k.
Iron islands: 15k-20k.
Crownlands: 10k-15k
North: 40-45k
Iron Island: 20-22k
Riverlands: 40-45k
Vale of Arryn: 40-45k
Westerlands: 50-55k
Crownlands: 10-15k
Stormlands: 30-35k
The Reach: 80-100k
Dorne: 35-40k
Source: A Wiki of Ice and Fire, The World of Ice and Fire, The Lands of Ice and Fire, Fire and Blood, Rise of the Dragon. All books written by GRRM and his team. The Wiki is the most credible source when it comes to ASOIAF. Fandom is the worse source to obtain information from, it literally tries saying The Manderlys have a silver mine when they in fact don’t.
I loved those MRE especially the chill Mac
But robb only called 20000 men,stannis attacke kings landing with 20000,tyrell is accurate,and cst confirmed in one of her chapters that after some battles the Riverlands only had 15000 men,and i doubt they lost 30000 men in two battles
This is from the books 👍
Iirc, Quentyn promised Dany they have 50K Swords and Spears waiting for her in Dorne
Firstbof all robb didn't have time to muster his full army neither did the riverlands. Just because they have the manpower to must 45 - 50,000 doesn't mean that they did or the circumstances allowed them too. U are taking numbers and completely missing context behind it.
@@zededs23 but I really doubt the North can field so many soldiers. Other than Robb's army. The second army Ser Rodrick Mustered to retake Winterfell and the Bolton force attacking them was around 2k iirc. And later the Umbers had resorted to using 'Green Boys' as mentioned by Theon in the sample chapters. So even if given the benefit of doubt, let's say they have 10k in reserve. Still doesn't add up.
Also, Roberts forces which took on the Rhaegar's army was around 35k and that included the entirety of North, and some of the Vale, Riverlands,Stormlands.
Robb can gather 50,000 men if he's given the time
let’s hope it’s not like broken moon and not broken and at this point i want to see a trident skins that cost 450 dollars
In general Dornish are the best fighters and the Vale are the best Knights and the Stormlands are the furious ones and the North and the Riverlands are the best Survivors, the Ironborn were the Savages... The Lannisters and the Reach are always the Richest and always has the hughest number of Soldiers in their Army.
Note - The Lannister Army under Tywin was the highly trained and most perfect Army in Westeros in that time...
Actually the two best armies in westeros are the North and the Reach
You can see in the books who are the best fighters. The Stark house guard claim that one northman is worth 10 Lannisters. But Arya gets angry when she only see one Lannister guard for the same northman who made that claim. Most of the kingdoms seem equal in skill apart from one, the Ironborn.
The Ironborn are far and away the best fighters in Westeros. When Asha is in deepwood motte she has a band of 25 and when surrounded in the woods by southern knights and northmen they fight till dawn till only 9 of them remain. Asha herself cuts down many fighters before twisting breaking her ankle and falling before a northern champion.
Although we do not see the Dornish fight en mass yet, but judging but Gerris and Yronwood they seem the same as most other warriors.
@@nordllingunder tywin its the lannisters
@@nordlling With all due respect, the North was not and never been the Best army in Westeros. Their Army is not particularly trained but consists of untrained Savages lol...
So if u truly want the best Armies for Reference, I'll give u for certain Timelines... The Best Army in
1. Got timeline - Lannister Army.
2. Dance of the Dragons - Riverlands Army.
3. Aegon's Conquest - Ironborn army in Solo. If u want combined then it is the Reach and the Lannisters...
@@CheeseCrumbs00 The reason why I said the Dornish as best Fighters in General is because the North has not the only Harshest Conditions in the Realm, but it actually is the Dorne. Their Deserts and irresistible heat naturally made them more Cruel, Hard and Harsh compared to the rest of the Region. Also the Rhoynar are said to be some of the Fine Skilled people in Essos, also there r many references in the book that they fight and fuck like crazy.. In the show Bronn says the same too... During Robert's Rebellion Rhaegar and Lewin Martell were very sure that the 10000 Dornishmen are more than enough for the rebels... Also there is this factor of them using Poisoned blades and long spears rather than just swords and hammers truly makes them the Deadliest...
Martin, my man, paid little to none attention to the logistics classes
These numbers are pretty nuts for medival armies. Battle of Grunwald, one of the biggest battles in the late medival period had 25.000 Poles, Lithuanians, Czech and Russian mercanaries and even Tatars on one side and about 16.000 Teutonic knights made up of mercenaries, order forces, and volunteers from across Europe on the other. At the time these kingdoms were huge and rich. I dont know how each of these lands have 40k a pop.
I mean Westeros is nearly the size of South America and is only split between 7 kingdoms. And they've been stuck in the medieval ages for a long time. But being able to muster an army that large and actually mustering that army are too different things. But I'd say the Iron Islands numbers are a bit crazy 😂 but I think the map drawers might have messed up the scale of the Iron Islands in comparison to everything else.
Rome lost 125,000 soldiers in 2 years to Hannibal and only controlled the italian pennisula and sardinia in 218BC
Would be interesting to add the night’s watch (I think was about 500) and the wildlings to this short as a sense of perspective.
And follow on with another short covering the Essos armies/factions
At the end of the day it's not about who has the most numbers, it's about which army can maintain that number throughout the war.
50,000 is far too many for the North. This is on the basis that the nom-cannon estimate is normally 45,000, however the Starks lost huge numbers in the war against The Mad King. While 15-16 years have past, this is not enough time to fully replenish numbers. It is therefore likely the North’s strength is 35,000-40,000 (which includes the Wall, Gift and New Gift)
It probably is enough to replenish numbers, I'd imagine boys going to war at 16 in this universe and younger 4 5 year olds during the mad King being old enough to now fight, kind of makes sense
@@YahalEL7 young boys would be replaced, but not the mid to older vets lost. The truth is in the numbers; Robb would have taken several thousand more men south than just 18,000-20,000 if the North was at full strength. Plus, if it was at full strength, that would have left 25,000-27,000 to take on the Ironborn. However, we have only seen around 10,000 materialise from CoK to DoD. Yes Manderley’s full strength, plus the smaller houses in his influence, the Flints, Reeds and Skagosi is yet to be confirmed, but we’re likely talking sub-5,000. Thus, the North’s strength is so far confirmed to be 30,000-35,000. Accounting for the garrisoned/unmobilised men after now 2 years of war, I’d say another 5,000 is BEST case scenario.
They didn't lose alot of men in Robert’s Rebellion. 50k is a pretty easy estimate for them. Also 15-16 years is quite a large time to replenish their numbers, especially when there wasn't any winter that happened.
@@AaronGuest see above. They didn’t lose many men in the Greyjoy Rebellion, but the War of the Mad King was massively costly for the North and the Stormlands. Hence why the Stormlands was only able to field ~20,000 in the War of the Five Kings, about 75-85% of their normal strength.
Not surprised the Reach can muster that much. With their connection to Knighthood within the Seven Kingdoms and the Marchers of the Reach being the main line of defense against Dorne, those numbers are very much understandable.
Very large for Medieval armies
No not really. Medieval armies didn’t called up the strength of the whole region, but what they were able to muster in a certain amount of time, what they can pay and what was logistically useful. At Towton for example fought in total about 80,000 to 100,000 men, but this was a very short campaign. Normally armies of princes were around 10,000 to a maximum of 40,000 strong, since this was a number that could be supplied. A 100,000 like Renly had could never be supplied, not packed so tightly and never in any period, from the ancient world to even nowadays
@@nighthawk_2k827 It is Medieval fantasy
Be aware of size of the world. It's as big as South America with European population density. It's unlikely, but may be possible
They have millions of men in reserve, but they cannot supply them in one single army. This is not a matter of population, it’s about the supply chain being too big and the army moving too slowly. Even armies like the ones I mention are having problems with supplying them, since the food they bring with Themis used up quickly and that many men eat more food then the country can supply. If an army of 100,000 were to marched through a territory, the rearguard would just starve, cause the van and center already ate all the food in the countryside. Supply is also a theme in the books, looking at Stannis and Daenerys for example
Meh, it's not that large if we compare it to other medieval places such as medieval Islamic Sultanate/Caliphate can muster from 100K up to 500K Men, so yeah
Pretty realistic numbers. It also makes sense that the Tyrells would have the largest army. Their fertile farmlands would allow them a high population.
Stark army has always been the most impactful.
Not at all, the most impactful Kingdom is either the Reach or the Westerlands. Both of them actually can finance a war unlike the North. This hype on the North is just as hilarious as the hype on Daenerys
@@nimrodlutar1212Do you even know what "impactful" mean ?
@@ousseynougueye5949maybe he/she meant "capable " ?
I loved the lore in this series. truly immersive
Northeners are worth 3 normal men though 😏
I thought Rodrik said 10? Lol
@@DrDoom931and the little SHE BEAR herself was worth 10 southerners. And she was just 10 years old. House Mormont remembers
Nahh, That's Dornish not the North... In general Dornish are the best fighters and the Vale are the best Knights and the Stormlands are the furious ones and the North and the Riverlands are the best Survivors, the Ironborn were the Savages... The Lannisters and the Reach are always the Richest and always has the hughest number of Soldiers in their Army.
Note - The Lannister Army under Tywin was the highly trained and most perfect Army in Westeros in that time...
@@DrDoom931Desmond said 10 and then died to one Lannister man at arms lol. The ironborn are worth 10. The rest are all worth about the same.
@@dineshbalu6107 That is completely made up. The Vale has the best knights because of their tradition,the same however can be said for the Reach,which is well known for their knights, probably also because they can feed them better than the other kingdoms. The men of the North are usually physically stronger than the others because of the harsh conditions they live in. But there is no difference between the soldiers of the Stormlands, Westerlands, Crownlands and Riverlands, they are the same people, the only difference is how they are trained and equipped. The dornish people are even smaller physically than the people of the other kingdoms,and they're equipped lightly compared to them,so I don't really see why you say they are the best soldiers,they are not and that's why their strength relies on their deserts and why Doran has to lie about the number of soldiers he can muster
It’s about specialisation also. The Lannisters have wealth for resources if needed, and if an army would accept. The North would fair better defensively as they are more adept to the colder environment. The entrance to the Vale is quite narrow, so opportunities if overwhelming them is not likely.
Kevan Lannister thinks that the Lannisters can gather 60,000 men. The Riverlands can field less as Tywin believes that the Riverlands and North strength may just out number the Lannisters in AGOT, meaning that although the North can gather a lot, they can't gather as much as the Lannisters.
The North in my opinion can gather at least as much as the Lannister, however Tywin rightly considers that it's almost impossible for the North to gather all their men in time and march them South at a decent speed
@@niccologregoruttithe North is huge and far away. It takes time to gather everyone and supplies for the army. Robb got as many as he could in short amount of time of about 20thousand.
As someone who has read the books, this is pure speculation
In the Books, it actually looks something closer to this.
The North 30K men: Robb Stark raised 20K men, Bolton gathered, I think, an additional 5K after returning to Winterfell, and Stannis gathering the support of 4K Clansmen and 1K Northmen from other houses. With potentially more men
Riverlands: approximately 25K men having a bit more of an underestimate due to Edmure losing an undetermined number of men on the Gold Road.
Westerlands: 40-50K, with Tywin’s initial 35K men plus the thousands of men Stafford, Daimon, and Davon Lannister raised after his departure.
Stormlands: 20-30K, the Tyrell’s having 60-70K after the Stormlanders were removed from their combined host of 90K at Bitterbridge.
Reach: 70-60K for the above reasons.
Vale: 20K I believe is the only real estimate we have.
Crowlands: 15-20K depending on if you count the Goldcloaks.
Dorne: publicly claims 30K but actually possesses the smallest army in the kingdom, only possibly excluding the Iron Isles that doesn’t have an army only a navy.
The Iron Ilse: possesses a navy with approximately 30K if the average of 30 ships equals a thousand men can be believed and we believe that the Iron Islands do actually have a thousand ships. But it’s likely closer to a third of that if the numbers during the Greyjoy Rebellion could be believed.
I believe the crownlands can muster about 15-20k men
They made a big point in the early seasons that Robb only had 25000 and Jon later on like half of that. Was this 50000 figure before the wars?
The north is 2 houses, it's Tully House Leaded by Catelyn Tully Stark, while Stark House is Leaded by Ned Stark. So if we combined the soldiers of Tully and Stark it's 100,000 soldiers too just like Tyrell House. And if you combined Tully and Stark House it is much bigger than to Tyrell House. The Only Different is Stark and Tully are the Poorest House in the 7 Kingdoms since they had lack of Exportation they can't farm because of the winter so their goods in the winterfell is very limited than to other houses just like Tyrell and Lannister Houses they are the 2 richest House in the 7 Kingdoms.
@@Raymund38TVMThe head of House Tully is Cats Father and then Edmure Tully, Cat became a Stark once she married Edd. And once Edd lost his head Rob was the head of House Stark like you said.
Stannis saved alot of important people defeating the wildlings
The riverlands like being surrounded
I think the most crucial role is played by the Army of the Deads… Without dragon glass (and only the Stormlands have much obsydian) they’re near unkillable!
Me with a bo'le of oil and a match
The north, Vale, Riverlands, and Dorne can muster 45K max, maybe slightly lower if they’ve had Hardships lately, the Lannisters can muster 50K but can easily add an additional 10K with mercenaries since their gold is obviously limitless. The Tyrrells at the absolute most can bring 100K but that’s assuming they’ve been prosperous for a while, most of the time their armies range from 75-80K since they don’t have enough time to muster every single soldier plus they have to leave some to garrison all the castles in the reach, Mern Gardener had around 40K men in his hastily assembled army to fight Aegon (but also Oldtown refused to fight) this is force is equivalent to Robb status 12K that he assembled to go south, we can see that the North can bring together 12K when the reach easily brings forth 40K, the Stormlands can field 30K max but they have the strongest knights in terms of prowess, thus is because of their Marcher lords (swan, Dondarian, Selmy and so on) the Crownlands can muster 15K max and usually the Crownlands are torn between fighting factions in the kingdom so they never really come together, the Ironborn have 20K max, which is why they can raid a lot and capture land from kingdoms at war, but have a hard time holding down their gains
I did some calculations some time ago and still have the notes saved. Here is what I got:
ESTIMATES FOR 298 AC / GAME OF THRONES POP
Vale: 45,000 (allegedly). 20,000 raised. 6,000@ Moon Gate. = 20-45,000
North: 12,000 + 8,000 joined @Moat Calin + 1,500 White Harbor = 20-22,000
Westerlands: 15,000 Jaime + 20,000 Tywin. 50,000 possible (allegedly) =
Another point for the consideration of who will be victorious is the equipment, experience and the Commander. An real world example: Prussia fought and won more than one war against an Alliance of Austria, France and Russia. It had less troops BUT they were experienced, well trained, and had really good officers. (I don’t know the kings name in English because it’s not my mother tongue but in German it’s Friedrich der Große)
You also missed the Crownlands. The Crown-lands can muster anywhere between 10,000-20,000 depending on the time period. I feel everyone forgets the king can summon the crownlands.
"the riverlands [...] who have no strategic defences"
Totally ignoring that Riverrun is one of the strongest and most strategically defensive castles in Westeros...
the Riverlands as a whole are not that well defended as they are flat and surrounded by the other kingdoms.
One dragon takes most, if not all.
Interestingly, these numbers are way higher than what the actual medieval armies could muster. In fact, even in very decisive battles like the Battle of Bouvine (1214) where France, under the direct command of king Philippe II Augustus, crushed a coalition led by Holy Roman Emperor Otto IV, the total number of soldiers was under 20,000. The French had about 7000 men while the Emperor commanded slightly less than 9000 men.
Even after the war where Philippe II annexed most of the English possessions in France, he could muster only about somewhere under 25,000 men in total from the royal domain.
The farther north can muster the largest army that can grow larger after every battle
Saint Ignatius of Loyola
The Patron Saint of Soldiers
An ounce of loyalty is worth a pound of cleverness.
The number of forces Dorne can muster are also said to be inflated as the 30 000 number came from Daeron I's book of his conquest of Dorne where he wanted to make his "conquest" seem more impressive than it really was. The truer numbers of how many men they can muster is probably closer to between 15000 and 20000
Based on what’s said from the show the north mustered 18,000 and the lannisters 60,000 (Tywin gave Jaime half the army and he says 30,000 men) and renly had 100,000 with the tyrells and stormlands put together. Meaning the stormlands and reach had around 50,000 each more likely leaning towards the reach.
Robb only had 18 thousand men because he built the army in a rush and kept recruiting as they moved south.
The north is huge, so it would have taken a while to build and march a 50 thousand men army.
The shows numbers don't really make sense, for example in the show Jon orders for everyone in the north to become a soldier to fight the night king. And then proceeds to say that he only has 10 thousand men. If the entire north only had 10 thousand men, you'd never meet another person while living in it.
I do not agree with everyone saying the Riverlands doesn't have defences. Sure enough not on its borders, but in times of war, its many rivers like the Trident and the Blackwater are strategic points which they can hide themselves behind. Mountains aren't the only natural form of defense, rivers are useful too.
Just a few addendums for anyone who cares. It is true that the fighting age population has been pretty thoroughly ravaged by the Baratheons involvement in the War of the Five Kings, and many lords and their forces have abandoned the Stormlands altogether to follow Stannis, BUT the Stormlands themselves are untouched entirely, not having seen any actual fighting since Robert's Rebellion, just saying. By far the areas most devasted right now are the Westerlands and the Riverlands, each being sacked and pillaged thoroughly by the northerners under Robb and Tywins forces. And I'd just like to add that not only do the Tyrells have an army pretty much double the size of any other house in Westeros, they are also one of the most rich houses in gold, so not only do they have this massive army but they can afford to equip their troops in actual standardized platemail and steel weaponry like shortswords and halberds, this is a huge deal. And not only do they have the biggest army and one of the most well equipped but they also sit on pretty much all of the food in Westeros, since its all grown in their land. So they have the biggest army, by a lot, one if the most well equipped, and they also have more than enough food to provision for their army. They are absolutely a force to he reckoned with, theres a reason Tywin was so persistent in making Margaery queen.
“Inconsistent” for the show is understatement. Don’t forget the Danys duplicating army.
While the Riverlands are surrounded by all sides, Riverrun is actually a very hard castle to take as it’s position on the rivers makes it so you have to split your army 3 ways
I never would have suspected iron island army had such girth
Thuram and Lavia makes sense if its 2. Lavia doesnt make sense if we're getting 1
starks has 18k and lannisters has 20k at books (without kinglanding forces because stannis)
That’s why a full force of North, Rivers, Vale and Storm men are way scarier!
im pretty sure the stormlands combined are 500,000. The book describe how westeros has sprawling medieval villages, hamlets, and suburb like towns outside the major cities and castles. The population is in the millions. the north is the largest yet has the fewest numbers population wise though.
Westerosi: babe it's time for another bloody conflict.
Riverland: yes babe.
Best land for their army, the Tyrells really are the most formidable armies in westeros. Sadly they don't have outstanding tacticians to back said army. However if they waited a little longer they could have taken the iron throne and established one of their own as King.
The information that is in the video is from a semi-canon source. In addition, Georg Martin misjudges a lot of things, at least as far as numbers are concerned. What we do know is that the North could bring in around 25,000 men in the War of the Five Kings because Robb went to Moat Callin with 12,000 men and when he arrived he had 18,000 men. He later took another 1,500 men from White Harbor When the ironborn took Winterfell, Ser Rodrick raised an army of 1,900 men to retake Winterfell. Ser Rodrick's army was later attacked by Ramsay who had 600 men and what we know is the North Mountains Clans gave Stannis an army of 3,000, so you get the number 25,000, which is quite realistic because Torrhen could bring an army of 30,000 men. The Westerland can bring in around 40,000 to 45,000 men because Tywin went north-east with an army of 35,000 men and divided them up giving Jamie 15,000 and himself 20,000 and we know that Stafford had an army of recruits or peasants and stuff further. We can assume at most that he fielded 5,000 to 10,000 men if we ignore the 4,000 who managed to flee the Battle of the Camps and join Stafford. Coming to Dorne this time, many think that Dorne could bring 50,000 men, however, this was only claimed by Daeron Targaryen the first because he wanted the Dorne army to appear more powerful to make his conquest more difficult, and Dorne accepted it because it made them look much stronger . The only number we know is that Dorne could bring 10,000 men into Robert's rebellion.