It’s not looking good for KTM + cheese cams
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ม.ค. 2025
- #chroniclesofsolid #advnews
KTM have recently got themselves into finanical trouble. Some media outlets are claiming a loss of 2.5 billion Euros. But is this true? and how much trouble are KTM and the Pierer Mobility Group in? Will GasGas and Husqvarna be sold and what can they do to survive? Plus KTM cheese cam (cam wear) follow up.
Sources
dirtbikelover....
motorcyclespor...
barebonesmc.co...
www.advrider.c...
www.motorcycle...
Thanks for watching,
COS
ADV MEDIA
Any company that doesn’t address repeated customer complaints deserves to fail.
They replaced the motor in my 2022 300 XC TPI after it seized 2 times within the 1st 7.4 hours with a new crate motor and oil pump after the 2nd seizure. It ran completely different, 100% better than the 1st motor. I have no complaint with KTM or my local dealer.
Unfortunately I bought one before knew so the company was shit. Love the bike so far. Its pathetic they don't address consumer complaints. Parts service reliability. Jyst sort it out and widen appeal.
Too much bling and wheelies shit. Not enough everyday competence.
No India manuals no parts terrible image for only idiots riding
@@human1513 wait until you are out of warranty and that engine seizes the 3rd time, which it will.
Paying extra to allow you to use software already on the machine when you buy it, seems to have worked out well ....
I was literally going to buy an 890 Adventure R but instead walked out of the shop when the salesman told me I needed to also pay extra to open up the software (or more accurately, keep open the software).
Will never buy a KTM now.
Ever.
Many people pay extra for adfitional tv channels. Same thing. Isn’t free public tv not enough? Well, then you need to pay for it!
@@kai-uweoch1159 a poor analogy.... It's rather like buying an HD TV and then to having to pay extra to actually see the picture in HD....
I agree with this. It may just be perception but it rubbed me the wrong way too. My GSA came with all the fruit and I'm sure I paid for it, but it just felt like the right way to do it.
I'm wondering how long it will take until someone comes up with a hack to unlock all the extras.
BMW automobiles and Zero motorcycles have pushed the subscription model that requires customers to pay more money to enable or retain features that are available when the products were manufactured. Most of us see this as very weaselly, and I'm not inclined to buy any product from a company that does that, no matter how they try to spin it. I also hate products that nag me or spy on me and that's pretty much all new cars because its required by regulations.
I am seeing over numerous industries that cheaping out on parts to maximize profit is seriously biting them in the arse.
It's sad but this one sparks joy. They should work for customers not to screw customers.
y i got a honda transalp 1993. i get more parts my transalp then my 10 year old ktm.
The Boeing of motorcycle industry…
The whole industry is cheaping out, soon all manufacturing will be done where the labour is the cheapest, IE, the developing countries, of course design can be done by computer but the final inspection should always be done by hand, all it takes is a careless atitude after initial 3D design and unseen problems will occur, we rely way too much on technology and ignore the human element and its tried and tested expertise, which got us here in the first place.
You left out. an important part of the KTM policy regarding cam shaft claims.
The owner must take the bike to the dealer (even though he has already taken it apart and seen the camshaft is damaged.) The dealer must disassemble the bike. and engine, then makes a determination about whether or not to process the warranty claim. If the dealer does, the customer must then wait for KTM to accept the claim or reject the claim. If the dealer refuses to forward the claim or if KTM refuses to honor the claim, the owner must then pay the dealer for the disassembly and reassembly of the motorcycle. The dealer and KTM should honor the warranty based upon the owner's disassembly and photos, but they will not.
@@BobSacamano-dy3wg That does not make it right, fair or just. A person who has a 2 year old KTM with a bad cam should be able to submit photos for an initial approval and then take the bike to the dealer already disassembled since he already paid another shop the labor to diagnose it. The customer should not have to pay the independent shop to reassemble the bike and then take it to a KTM dealer to have them charge him to take it apart. Especially since some of the KTM dealers are denying the warranty claims. All major car manufacturers allow you to submit photos from an established auto repair shop for warranty work. If they require a dealer to perform the work, the manufacturer pays for the tow bill plus they pay the independent shop's labor for the diagnosis.
I agree with you totally, nothing to disagree with. To add to this though. If this were to happen with a Honda, as if it ever would. Everyone knows Honda, and many other brands of different industries. Would protect their brand at all cost. The way KTM is behaving with this issue, is as bad, if not worse than the mechanical issue itself.
@@maximusmiles8435 I think it is because they come from an off road, mx background where the warranty was only a few months and pretty much everything was not covered or excluded due to racing or abusive use.
I also think KTM has publicly ignored their reliability issues for too long and they’ve gained a negative reputation. I avoided buying a KTM /Husky because of it. They also need to offer more value for the money. Not everyone is buying 890Rs and 1290s.
@@alexmoreno8156 Or put the 690 motor in an ADV chassis like the 450MT...
The 790 Adv is great value for the money. The rest of their line-up seems pretty in line with the competition...
@@mattzobian The 790 is also now actually a CF Moto bike. Might as well buy the CF Moto version for even less money...
@@davidc1961utube I was about to say exactly the same thing.
I ended up getting a great deal this year on a 2023 1290 Super Adventure S. Great for my fiancee and I to do trips and rip on. We love it. However, if we didn't get the deal we did, we would have easily passed and waited on buying a bike for another year.
Good reporting! As I have one of the most sordid camshafts experiences and have enjoyed your work, here’s my story.
I purchased a used 2019 790R with 10.5k miles during Covid. Upon doing the first valve check at approximately 18.8k miles I discovered the cam wear issue on the #2 cylinder exhaust camshaft lobe and follower. As my Seattle KTM dealer was hopelessly backed up I did the work myself. It appeared to me that the tiny lubricating oil jet for the cam lobe had been clogged. These oil jets are extremely tiny and, in my case, required a wire not much bigger than a human hair to unplug.
Unfortunately, a replacement camshaft from KTM was backordered in the US for four months during prime riding season. As such I reassembled the bike with a new follower figuring I’d install the replacement camshaft when it arrived in the fall. About 500 miles later the engine died going up an interstate mountain pass at about 80mph. Turns out the timing chain skipped resulting in cylinder valve train (exhaust valve) collision. I believe this was my fault for not getting the hydraulic cam chain tensioner properly reset which is tricky to do.
I next took the cylinder head to two different KTM dealers for a rebuild. The first one had it for 3 weeks before determining that the broken valve guide part couldn’t be obtained from KTM. The second one said I need a new cylinder head because of excessive camshaft wear on the cylinder head bearing surface (near the worn lobe.) So I ordered a new cylinder head which took months to arrive and turned the project over to a local motorcycle mechanic. Upon getting the bike back I got a low oil pressure warning above 3,000 rpm. I took it to a 3rd KTM dealer who very graciously spent hours trying to diagnose the oil pressure problem but was unable to do so without an engine teardown for which I’d have to wait weeks.
As I had a ride with friends planned, I decided to replace the engine. I found a lightly used 2020 790 Duke engine for sale in Edmonton, Alberta for $2,000. (I sold my original engine on eBay after disclosing its full history.) I’ve now got over 10k miles on this Duke engine in my 790R chassis and so far, so good. I’ve done one valve adjustment. For kicks I recently ordered a 2022 890 cam follower to compare with my 2019, thinking I might upgrade the followers. What I found was that it was only minutely wider i.e. my caliper could barely determine a difference in width. As I have spent 100+ hours noodling this topic I strongly suspect the problem is with the oil delivery system to the valvetrain camshaft.
What a pain. To be fair, here in Europe parts availability is hardly an issue. Owning a KTM in Europe or US is probably a different experience.
There's a TH-cam video that shows the oil delivery holes were miss drilled and do not align properly, occluding/restricting oil delivery causing damage to the cams! Requiring replacement of valves AND HEAD!!! Check it out!
I strongly suspect the problem is you still riding and funding that pos bike and company... jeez take a hint!!!
I wonder how much all those adventures costed you in total.... Could buy actually working bike for that
Hypothetically speaking, what do you think the fix for this issue would be? If KTM redesigned the head with better oil passages, do you think that would fix the issue in the long term?
KTM should put you on their engineering payroll, wait, they are laying off staff.
The easiest way to avoid all this bother , is to buy a Japanese bike .
Have owned six Yamahas, two Hondas and two Kawasakis since 1978, not one of those bikes cost me a cent outside the usual routine tyres , chains …and service costs.
Currently own a Transalp 750 and a Versys 650 , both gems.
While I generally agree and ride AT myself I think it's stupid argument.
Everyone knows their performance and design is nowhere near euro brands. People can and should be able to have reasonably WORKING high performance bikes...
World defends corporations too much and not enough people/customers... And that's effect. Basically they are allowed too much.
But customers are at fault too, for still buying ktms etc despite all too many horror stories and total lack of respect from brand, not honouring warranty claims etc etc
Stop buying crap and corporations will stop selling crap basically
I have a 2024 Transalp. Hate the cheap suspension on it. Kind of wish it did not have tubes in the tires as I do 90% roads (pavement and dirt).
@@human1513 both are effect of extreme cost cutting and part of reason for price of bike. But know this, hondas top model, AT also have absolute crap suspension. It's just fact of life for jap bikes unfortunately
KTM must be losing customers at an alarming rate. I've owned several new Adventure and off-road KTMs and have always been impressed with their dirt bikes. However, after the issues with my low-mileage 2021 890 Adventure, I'm hesitant to purchase another Adventure model. That bike left me stranded in the desert when the ignition barrel stopped communicating with the ECU, and it spent nearly six months at the dealer waiting for parts - a frustrating experience that wasn't the dealer's fault.
Hoping the reliability issues were resolved, I bought a 2023 890R, but it came from the factory with a loose front end. That was the final straw for me, and I sold it shortly after. While KTM bikes excel in handling and performance, their reliability seriously needs improvement. Until KTM addresses these issues, I won’t be buying another Adventure model.
Every bike I purchase I check all nuts and bolts,I had the same problem with my 23 8900r and tightened the steering stem nut no big deal.So far after 12000 miles im very happy with my latest KTM purchase.If the cams go bad I will replace them,there is no other bike like this on the market.
Gtfoh.
... and the engine internals? Tear the entire engine apart and reassemble it just to make sure that all the torque specs are what they should be? Rear hub?
Issues like torque settings should be checked at PDI.
Yes it should have been done correctly at the factory, but the dealership also bears some responsibility.
@@hardyeleonore Same, and it’s not even close
I've the same year 890R as you. Two in fact. Cams are NOT a consumable item. That isn't cool. @@hardyeleonore
As someone working in the automotive industry the way things have been going for the last few years are very scary and make me question my carrer choices. ALL major car and bike manufacturers are cutring projects left and right, sacking employees and imposing hiring stops actoss the board
The answer is simple, KTM needs to do a few things. As Tom Aspinall would say, "This isn't rocket science." 1.) Terminate the lead artists and designers at once. 2.) Stop using orange exclusively. 3.) Stop building sci-fi movie prop motorcycles that belong in the year 2070.
@@starseeddeluxe Buy a Honda. KTM is definitely not for you
@@starseeddeluxeKTM is the only manufacturer that produces the bike I need and want. I like orange, but am not that keen on the look - they are certainly function over form. I just wish they'd be a bit more supportive, in the way that BMW is.
Maybe market finally correcting after "free" money during COVID and it's bubble
Yep. Materials cost more and eats into profit margins and executives can’t have that for stock holders. As we see, stock going to go down either way so may as well build a quality product or go out of biz.
Solution: Japanese 2 stroke and slap quality after market parts on it as needed.
Maybe stop building as cheaply as possible, and charging as much as possible...?
BINGO !
KTM - the Harley of the dirt bike world. Pay premium prices for budget durability
They blame market 😂😂😂
woah woah woah stop with the crazy talk
I was at a Gold Coast KTM dealer the other week, I jokingly asked if the 2024 890 cams are fixed. He straight face answered he had no idea what I was talking about.
Same thing here. I was at my local (Woodstock KTM, IL) I asked what his opinion was on the cam debacle he said he didn't know what debacle I was talking about. I lost a lot (or all) of respect for the guy. They must be told they are not to acknowledge the problem for legal reasons. If you have any exposure of ktm the cam issue is front and center. Unless you have been under a rock for the last 5 to 6 years.
Unbelievable
Having bought my KTM 350 from that dealership, this was probably a truthful answer. No-one in that store has a clue about KTM’s and motorbikes in general. 😂
Appreciate you staying on this, Solid! I have a Norden 901 and am watching this very closely to see how widespread it is…and monitoring how well the company values their customers. Thank you, and Safe Travels
Me too. I have a 23, you?
@@SPENJERE same, I’m in New Hampshire (US), such a fun bike!
@@davidwood974 originally from the gate city.
Oh they value your wallet very much. At least until you buy their crap.
After that u can f.....k off and thank you very much for your money, now this bike is your problem - ktm 😂
Excellent video, love your style..... Nothing beats facts.
Thanks mate 👍
Great vid Solid. I have never owned a KTM and never been a fan, mostly because of the insane pricing in Australia and the fact that we've all heard about their reliability issues. It seems now we are getting a Chinese bike at Austrian prices. Why wouldn't we just buy a Chinese bike outright and save money? Japanese brands will always get my money and I'm so happy with my WR250R. A lot of mates that I ride with have KTM 350-EXC or 450-EXC's and yeah, I can't keep up with them in the open flowy stuff but I am definitely riding my bike more while they are working on theirs. Good on people that can afford KTM and love them, I'm just never going to be one of them. I don't want to see them go under though. The problem is 'shareholders' and my company is doing the same thing. They expect profits year after year and when profits are lacking, they keep cutting the costs, meaning the quality of these bikes will just keep going down. Then when things go bad, they sack the little guys doing the actual work instead of looking at the high level management who are massively overpaid and do SFA. It's sad old times mate. Thanks for the reports and yes, I've also heard of heaps of people having issues with cam shafts.
Even though my 890 resale goes down every day im glad you're pushing the issue
Thats the spirit
The hardness does not affect the melting/phase transformation temperature of steel. If lubrication breaks down any steel, of any hardness, will suffer from adherson temperature raise and camshaft beeing "eaten". It's very likely lack of lubrication.
By now KTM internally must know what's causing the wear. They are just trying to get out if paying for their mistakes.
They quietly introduced a new head design for 2025.
Everyone knows, it's called Chinesium
@@bossmonkey1126 beancountium...
Dirty Garage Guy investigated a 790 head and he found lubrication issues due to a misalignment of an oil drilling due to a design flaw. In some cases the drilling lines up perfectly and oil flow is good, but some engines have restrictions and some are completely blocked. Depending on the level of tolerance of the machining and assembly, you get either a perfectly good engine, or one with increased levels of wear with some almost immediate catastrophic failures of the camshaft. Hardness was not an issue at all.
That's a well put together explanation of what is really going on with the KTM finances and not just trying to fan the flames.
My concern now is, I was about to order a CFMoto 450MT, but CFMoto are the guys that built all the bikes having problems with Cheese Cams, think I'll wait a while and see how the 450 MT's cams hold up too. Biggest problem I've had with Chinese built bikes in the past is how soft their metal is and how easy stuff bends and breaks.
I think the funny thing I have not seen anyone complaining of the CFmoto bikes having any issues like this. This problem seems to stem exclusively from something specific to the KTM design.
@@SuperCJification Don't think they've been out long enough to know that. I certainly hope they are not affected.
There was also rocker arm issue with older models od 690 - the bearing axle did slide out of bearing making it fall apart making mess in whole engine. Ktm did update rocker arms in 2015 for allegedly failure free ones (at least in that term). But still, they do not answer wheter the rockerarms should now be treated as a wear part of engine and replaced after defined mileage to prevent failure or treated as any other part as crank or piston that never fails when treated properly (and wears quite slowly). Asked in Austria, asked in my country. No answer at all.
I watched a video of a TH-cam channel that had one of the affected heads off a 790 and the engineer who was checking it out, found that the oil feed to the cam journals was compromised as in the holes weren't drilled in the correct position and only allowing a tiny amount of oil through to the cams, the hole was misaligned.... that's a huge issue and a quality control problem....
The impression I got from those videos was that the gallery misalignment was a design problem, rather than a manufacturing problem. Having said that, if KTM were not so hell bent on shafting the customer then they might have come up with a recall and manufacturing fix years ago, and we wouldn't be having these conversations. CFMoto are also being hurt by this, so they should make public what changes they supposedly did to their 800 to fix this problem.
@@MotoGuzziMoto
There's been a lot of guesswork passed off as fact, but the only failure to have been properly tested and made publicly available revealed the oil feed had been misaligned.
Unfortunately KTM wanted the head back in order to settle with the owner, so we didn't get to see a cross section showing the problem.
That's KTM...shit Q and A. Its really not acceptable for the price KTM demands for its bikes.
Whatever you think, having a good oil feed to the cam jounals is essential and it needs to be a full hole and not a 8th of a hole, like was shown in the video....
@@grenphelps7455 Agreed, and also worth noting there are multiple oil feeds to the different parts of the cams, so if one feed is restricted then the oil simply goes the easy path to the other feeds.
I love motorcycles and I also have worked in Finance for over twenty years... and let me tell you... your analysis on both motorcycles and financials are flawless! Congrats
Thanks 😎
As an owner of a 1050 and a 690 enduro, I was keen to buy a 890, now due to the cam issues I won’t be purchasing one. Pity because they are great bikes to ride
As a former ktm owner, I wouldn't buy the brand again after the way the company treated 790 890 owners. Almost bought a 890 adventure but bought a honda transalp instead. So happy with my choice. As if I'd bought ktm my head would be melted just like ktm cams
The only KTM cam wear issue I’ve had is that I’ve suffered through your description of it…old TTR and WR’s for the win! Just kidding, I’m lovin the varied content.
Yeah, that subscription model for features really worked well, eh?
Pathetic.
KTM doesn’t have subscriptions. You pay once, just like for any other accessory.
@@kai-uweoch1159paying extra for something that was already installed on the bike when you bought it
There’s no subscriptions. Do you not understand that or are you just trolling? Genuine question.
Another great video…….hopefully those riders get made whole on their bikes.Makes the 700 Tenere and African twin more desirable
KTM refused to honor their statement on th cam issues for me.
I paid about 3000 EUR to fix my cams on my 2021 890r.
Dear KTM, please stop bringing out new models each year. Instead focus on quality control and optimizing your supply chain as well as your production lines to be able to increase bang for buck dramatically. Thank you, a potential customer who only buys reliable brands with a good value proposition.
I agree, but change is what made KTM big. They release a bike with heaps of changes, half of which are a step backward, and then they fix those things for the next couple of years, which helps sell those models, until the next all new bike and the cycle starts again. It's pure marketing genius. They just went too far.
I’m a big fan of your channel and I am also a KTM fan boy. I currently own a 890 Adventure R and. Husqvarna 701 Enduro.
I’m so glad you covered this in detail. I think there are obviously changes they need to make but I really hope they continue to make amazing bikes. I’ve never had a problem with mine (I’ve also owned a duke) and I will probably sell the 890 and buy a 500 EXC at some point
It doesn’t matter if it’s one or a hundred engine failures, when a Facebook site pops up and customers are complaining about being screwed by Ktm, it damages their reputation. For Ktm to ignore that is a huge mistake of epic proportions and displays an ignorance of the Budweiser type fiasco which costs billions in the long run. Social media is everywhere and anyone looking for a new bike and was maybe looking to buy a Ktm will immediately say screw that and buy something else. Even if they weren’t looking to buy a cheese cam bike and were looking at one of the others, they will still give it a hard pass, cause KTM customer care sucks balls and no one wants to give a company all their hard earned money to get shafted by them. KTM should be worried and they dam well should be going overboard to fix the cam issue if they want any chance of getting customer confidence back unless they want to go down the shitter.
At 64 years old, I owned all kinds of Japanese brand motorcycles to include Harley Davidsons… sitting in my garage right now is a 2019 Suzuki DL 1000 With 85,000 miles on the clock. Sitting next to that bike is it 2018 Harley Davidson ultra classic with 65,000 miles on the clock. Both these Bikes start every single time, and I’ve had zero issues with the bikes…. I just recently bought a brand new 2023 KTM 890 adventure S model. The bike now has 2800 miles on it, and it’s been nothing but a headache and hassle! Everything Negative that is posted on TH-cam is all Same old crap that is happening with my KTM… If anybody has any thoughts on buying their bigger models of KTM’s I would say look At different brands of Motorcycles.. I will never promote KTM brand of Motorcycle they are truly unreliable, and I cannot wait for the class action lawsuits that company should be facing for putting out poorly built motorcycles…..!!!
Your post reminds me of my 2001 Suzuki bandit that had the oil ports on the pistons drilled in the wrong spot. Burned quite a lot of oil. Dealer took my bike for 4 weeks and never even opened the valve cover. Then bragged to me about their hourly rate.
They all do this crap. Your brands are not immune from screwing customers in favor of the bottom line
Sorry to hear you owned a Harley but heck, we all can be tempted to the dark side once.
Still Laughing…… BUT all those Old ass Harley Davidson started every single time and never had me wondering if I was gonna be broke down on side of the road .. Where as my 2023 KTM 890 has me wondering that every single time. Who knows maybe I just got a big fat lemon🤔🤔
What exactly would they sell with Husky and GasGas? Isn't their whole product line rebadged KTM products?
They are now a Logo and have no engineering and manufacturing of their own, which would allow them to build on. In other words, Zombie brands.
KTM may be outsourcing product development and manufacturing to China, and THOSE bikes may receive the rebadge treatment in the future.
This goes to the heart of their problem which lies entirely at their management. Why buy other bike brands at all if all you are going to do is sell the same bikes with different colors? You alienate these brands customer bases (so you you fail to capture their market share) and you cannibalize you own brands sales.... So why did they spend the money at all? So what are they worth now??
Corporate world made. You don't try to. Understand it by logic or common sense. It's probably all moves to get more money from investors or new investors @@jjjjrrr678
@@jjjjrrr678 it's a way to eliminate competition without pissing off any husky ir gasgas diehards. thats 2 brands that would take market share that are gone. tjis way they can say "ooops, we tried."
Journalism majors that don't know the difference between declining market cap and operating losses. Or deliberately fail to discriminate between them as click bait. SMH...
LC8 - Largely Cheese, mate! LOL
Good call on the legalese on the cams. Lawyers gotta lawyer. Dealers are a highly variable group. Like car dealers, not a surprise...
Thanks for the rational commentary!
Thanks David 👍
Loss of 65% stock value combined with negative cash flow should not be minimized, Solid. KTM is in big trouble. I don’t buy KTM specifically because of reliability and warranty service denial concerns, so I’m not exactly a fan. But it would be a terrible thing if a major marque like KTM went down the tubes. 😬
The only negative thing about ktm going down would be employees losing their job.
I think it'd be great thing otherwise.
Itd send strong message to corporate world... Though it's not like they can learn or self reflect at the top...
Everything is always customers and market fault, never their 😂
Nah. They won't shutter. KTM brand is huge today. I envision Indians or the Chinese salivating at owning the brand. Or maybe even the Volkswagen group cause of the proximity.
Good summary of the financial position. This story is perhaps the worst misrepresentation of “loss” I’ve seen in all my years in finance. It’s insane and deeply terrifying how badly distorted the internet has become. And how gullible us users have become when it comes to sensationalism. Thanks for putting a balanced view out there. It’s much needed.
Also, nitpicking a little, operating earning (EBIT) is as you point out earnings before interest and taxes. So by definition, the interest rate has no direct effect on it. But as you also point out, it does affect demand, especially for discretionary goods. We are at the top of the interest rate cycle now, but ironically this is not a good thing necessarily. Since ww2 peaks in interest rate cycles have pretty reliably been followed by recessions. The only thing that has varied is the time between the first rate cut and the start of the recession. And this would be way worse for KTM, but investors are aware of this and have probably already priced this into pmg’s share price.
Thanks for your due diligence 🙏🏻.
Imho,,
You're still one of the best content providers and we Riders have a need for reliable information. Even if the machines in question(KTM) are having reliability problems 🙄🤌.
Its a Heat treatment issue for these soft cams IMO.
Cheers 🍻, G.
Thanks Gabe 👍
Consumer law in Australia states that any products sold have to be reasonably durable.
This is regardless of any warranty they offer.
If you believe your bike isn’t reasonably durable then take your complaints to the relevant authorities and bush it as far as you can.
Don’t let manufacturers off the hook.
👎Yeah!Only your"believes" are worth shit!-You must "proof" it.....Good Luck doing that!🤢🤮
I have enough in my life to deal
with without owning a KTM . I ride a 9 year old Honda with 56k miles on it and only routine maintenance .
2.5 billion euros is 4.16 billion Australian
Thanks Solid, this is the best take on this whole KTM situation I've seen. Very objective. Thanks!
I, like many others didn't purchase a KTM because I like riding, not wrenching.
AND there's big issue with supporting corporations that behave this way!
If u buy ktm your kinda part of the problem
I got ktm because I like to ride. Unfortunately the Japanese can't compete är riding experience. I don't want to support ktm but I love a fun ride. 25000kms and no issues yet. Fingers crossed...
I was dying to get the small Svart as my first bike, but they just never even landed in my area. I guess this explains more as to why that is.
Good video solid! I enjoyed it 😊
Good talk.
👍
I would be curious to see the other big brands performance post Covid as well
A very good FACTUAL report on the state of KTM....David....Adelaide.....Triumph Scrambler 1200X
Cheers David
This really needs an independant examination, initial inspection of the problem shows a manufacturing mistake, IE,, if they had drilled the nozzle socket a couple of millimeters deeper it would clean out the metal where the two counterboress meet and allow a better flow of oil to the very back of the nozzle itself, basically where the two counterbores meet at the junction are left very untidy.
The last procedure will be the cutting of the threads to take the nozzle, if they have not cleaned this stage out properly there could be debris left behind from the tapping procedure, I would love to visit the factory and inspect the head after machining to see what is lurking in there..
My friend had a 790 engine failure at 30k miles and had to replace the whole unit. We took the engine apart and the cams were destroyed. My 790 is due soon for the second valve check, and the odds of cam failure are pretty high.
Great video with your balanced information! Much appreciated!
I’ve always been a KTM fan. But my brand new ‘22 husky was a complete disaster from day 1. Couldn’t get rid of it quick enough.
Which husky?
Considering how much money they charge for their bikes and how many units they sell, they have NO excuse to be in a bad financial situation.
Good mail is some oil pumps are 😮running lower pressures
than what’s stated in KTM’s own workshop manuals for 790/890s
being 26 psi at idle & 50 psi at 7000 rpm .. it’s their own figures
so maybe not enough oil getting to those cams ?
Apparently the V twins have never had the problems , only when they’ve tried
to go budget wise on the parallel twins.
Great video. Very knowledgeable and objective. He nailed it.
As well as " A couple of youtube videos" come on mate, give some credit where its due please, i worked hard breaking this story, and ive actually been writing about the problems at PMG for over a year now, just a bit of credit would be nice, in all honesty, i expect better from you
I was not referring to your video. Only videos and articles that misrepresented the financials. I referenced a paragraph of your blog in a later section of the video and you will find a link to your site under “sources” in the description 👍 Until I read this I was unaware of your video. Having now watched, it’s good coverage and details 👍
@@chroniclesofsolid ok, ill take that on board, I am a long term sub and am listening. cheers for the link, i was probably harsh because a certain big channel i wont mention also ran with it with no reference and several smaller ones simply copied my script with screenshots using AI variations with no reference back to me, its a story ive been covering (the PMG rise and falls) for a while now. I have been trying to pull real biker/creators together to form a greater alliance too if you are interested, we all have our own perspective, and we are all fighting against the rise of empty autogenerated content. together we are stronger 🙂 drop me a line if you are interested 🙂
@barebonesmc I didn’t take it personally mate. It’s the internet and I’ve had my stuff copied and stolen as well so I understand your justified frustration. I’m a bit embarrassed that I completely missed your video & channel TBH. Especially considering you’re a long term sub. I’ll be touching on the topic quickly in ADV news this month and I’ll give you a shout out as you have done some stellar research. Regarding the creator alliance, can you email me more details please. I’m unfortunately at maximum capacity with a young toddler and renovations going on but happy to take a look and add my support 👍
My 790 was built in Austria and I’ve had to replace my cams
Me too
@@BobSacamano-dy3wg
Quite the opposite.
The only independent test result that was made public (TH-cam channel Dirty Garage Guy) revealed misalignment of the cross drilling for the top end oil feed.
In other words, a manufacturing defect.
KTM completely dropped the ball from a marketing standpoint.
I always wanted a super duke but after KTM made the decision to ignore the cam issues alongside moving production to India and China, they lost me. I will never support a company moving production to China. Bought a BMW M1000R and haven't looked back. Pierer Mobility will bankrupt KTM.
Good vid. Bigger the boom bigger the bust
Build our motors in China they said.. It’ll save us lots of money they said..
Without China, no KTM anyway.
I hate China but blaming them lets KTM off the hook to a degree. KTM designed and chose who to go with for production of these motors. kTM specs the tolerances and metals used in production, not the factory.
Ktm designed the oil galleries and specified the materials. Don’t blame Chinese Manufacturing which is as capable as any country- defends of QA and specification
KTM sets the build and design specifications. It’s on them, not their building partners. Look at CFMOTO, building reliable bikes based on KTM designs.
@@alexmoreno8156 Exactly. The irony is huge, the Chinese solving KTMs reliability issues.
I think another big issue other than the massive recession and the fact you're gonna probably be spending 10k+ since it's KTM, is the fact that right now they 70 DIFFERENT models listed on their website, 3 of which are exorbitantly priced super cars, for some reason.
KTM makes WAY too many different bikes, sell them at too high of prices, and that's not to mention the insane amount of older models still sitting their lots that never got sold. They need to quit it with the car shit and like half the size of the amount of bikes they offer while keeping a balance between affordable bikes between 5-8k and the specialized ones they're charging 13k+ for
KTM on the Stock Marker, is obviously on a downturn due to respect with in the community and general lack of confidence that they are innovating. It was a big mistake for KTM to sell ride profiles, for likes of Adventure bikes. They lost trust and good will with customers. People to other brands.
They’ve been downgrading quality for years. Not honoring warranties, etc.
I stepped away from the brand years ago
What’s interesting is more and more manufacturers are relying on CF moto and Bajaj which is essentially financially rising them to the level of being able to turn around and buy out the brand when they fail.
I predict CF Moto will buy the KTM trio for the IP and close them all down.
One things for sure KTM/ GAS GAS will end all there racing programs
Good follow up on the earlier remarks solid! Yeah I still like ktm bikes also for sure and I do hope they get things fixed
Thanks 👍
I own two Adventure 1190s, love them no issues 🤙😎 2015 and 2014
Lucky you. Friends have one each. One snapped it's from from the shock mount. The other has done 3 ECU's!
On the dirtbike side of things, since TPI was introduced almost every customer of the 2018-2019 models had issues with fueling and power. Since then theyve mostly fixed the problems. Ktm dirtbikes come with NO warranty. Pretty incredible. But when I look at the crap I’ve put my hard enduro bike through its pretty amazing.
I do have an issue with the cost of the bikes. I wish the japanese would step up and make a better bike for trail riding like the xcw/exc series.
As others have mentioned, it's the way that they treated customers who suffered cam failure that I think has led to some serious strategic drift.
As owner of two KTMs, including the 890 Adventure, sad to see how the company is being run. Very presumptive of the company to think growth into markets through partnership and series on redundant overlapping product acquisitions ( Husqvarna and Gasgas ) would be perpetual linear growth. Moreover, stepping into a strategy of growth without addressing quality control and robust engineering. With all the LC8 platform issues, none of us feel comfortable taking our KTM 890 around the world.
The irony is the roll out of he KTM 890 Adventure demonstrated the possibilities of the middleweight class bike. Innovative gas tank, lightweight platform, and leading power / torque. Now BMW and Triumph will cash in with their new products in the same space. The Tiger 900 Rally Pro is demonstrating much higher quality, performance, features, and "Ready To Go Around The World."
The only KTM cam wear issue I’ve had is that I’ve suffered through your description of it…old TTR and WR’s for the win!
KTM is not alone in facing headwinds. Harley, Stellantis, VW and others are all in trouble. Time will tell how this all shakes out.
I was strongly considering a 790 Adventure. On paper, it looks like a bargain compared to the other bikes in its class. I'm just not willing to risk my money on a product that the manufacturer may or may not stand behind. I think I'm going to go Japanese or maybe step down to the Himalayan 450 if it is good as they say.
Tuareg 660 - sensational bike.. Aprilia still make their bikes in Europe
@@volvogt21
Actually I believe aprilia are outsourcing some of their bikes to India.
@pauln6803 mopeds maybe but not their 660s and up
@@volvogt21would you take an Italian bike RTW
@hergaster4443 Hell no. I wouldn't take any of my BMW's or triumph around either. I rode 20k around Australia last year on my 96 suzuki Dr650. The last thing you want is computers or fuel injection when 80% of the country has no bike mechanics let alone specialised dealers.
Given the links KTM has with CF Moto, could these cam issues possibly affect
the ground breaking MT450 in time?
Great video and great info. You deserve many many more subs than you have. I've been one for a few years. Thanks again.
I keep watching these videos, hoping to hear what it takes to fix the problem. Aftermarket camshaft ?
Great info 👍🏻
Don't forget that CF Moto owns 51% of KTM which means they have controlling interest.
Dealers still having 23 models for sale new, at big discounts and 890 rally sitting in dealer showrooms does not bode well for the future, 2nd hand prices for 890’s are really low because of the reliability issues
There's a TH-cam video that shows that the oil feed tubes are NOT DRILLED CORRECTLY, and shows how the tubes are occluded by misalignment!!! KTM needs to replace the cams AND HEADS with parts THAT ARE CORRECTLY MANUFACTURED! Otherwise, they are replacing defective parts with THE SAME DEFECTIVE PARTS!!! I didn't pay nearly $16,000 for a bike with a 16,000 mile lifespan! Time for a class action suit!!! Are ya listening, KTM? 😡
The VIDEO I watched is: KTM CHEESE CAMS ISSUE! from: DIRTY GARAGE GUY
I initially watched: KTM - CHEESE CAMS WHISTLEBLOWERS AND CORPORATE GREED
Which gave me the link. They both believe it's oil starvation. Worth watching!
Cheers
I like my 890 but if the engine shits itself i have a good 2015 Tracer i will take that motor and put it in my KTM,
I love the ktm for the gas tank setup,
If the Yamaha T7 had the ktm gas tank setup i would buy a T7.
This better not disrupt the RC 990 release!!
10:14 Or perhaps they realise the size of the problem and looking at the losses they are posting, are trying their very best to avoid the expense involved in doing the right thing by the owner of their vehicles...
They don't have a great track record thus far as a 'Good corporate citizen'.
* For context, old mechanic here who was with Ford back in the day when unleaded fuel arrived in Australia. Ford had no idea that their push rod cams were being kept alive by the lead in the engine oil of the old engine. The switch to unleaded had cams loosing lobes just like these soft Kato ones.
KTM should do something to acknowledge your efforts to set the record straight and about their financial and chez-cam situation Your attention to detail one the subject shouldn’t and doesn’t leave room for the naysayers to comment.
I am glad I got a smaller cc Duke because there seems to be reliable issues in their lager engines. Sometimes less is more. My bike might not be as fast but it’s gonna last longer
The Bajaj made 390 is a solid little engine 👍
I sincerely hope this isn't the nail in the coffin for KTM.
I have a soft spot for them having raced a KTM motocrosser in the eighties.
Recently demo'd a duke 890r and it was without question the most exciting and best handling bike that I've ever ridden.Nothing comes close.👏
i really want them to survive because competition is a good thing for consumers. while i may never buy one "for real money", i do think they can be influential to other companies. on the surface what i see is that they make some really high performance machines that arent super heavyweight compared to the bikes that ive ridden. i had hoped that someday i may own a fuel injected two stroke, but i have no idea when or how i could afford to get one.
When looking at the KTM H1 financials, while motorcycle sales are down, the 'bicycles segment' is really the open wound.
With moto's contributing 93% of the €1002m revenue, bicycle division was responsible for 60% of the -€195m EBIT (@ -€117m), 60%.
The reduction in moto production seems to be consistent with the actual 21% decline in sales and a reasonable business decision considering the current climate. Lower costs, inventory working capital etc.
Cam wear is clearly an issue or it would not have been made so public and everyone knows. Personally i think KTM stretched themselves a bit too far too fast.
There has been an issue with the oil passage drillings being misaligned that I have seen on an engineering analysis I am sure many have seen. With the sales volume, Bajaj or CFMoto could easily swallow KTM. It's if they want to.
Add the reliability issues . Not recalling KTMs that blow up just looking at them there you go plus wasting money in racing
Ok
Ive been hearing about this Camshaft wear,
I'm an Aussie living in Colombia South America,
I bought an 890 Adventure S in Sept 2022, it was imported into Colombia by the KTM Distributors about July 2022,
Ive been reading about camshaft wear just lately,
Ok,
I can tell everybody about my 890 if it could have made any difference to my 890,
Firstly,
Ive never used the recommended Motorex Oil, Motorex was only in my motor up to the first 1,000 klm service then i started using another full synthetic brand that ive used on 4 Yamaha Tracers and aTenere 1200,
My 890 has done 29,000k, valve checks at 12k, 20k & 28k,
I was only made aware of this camshaft problem when my bike was at about 27.5 klm so i got my mechanic to do a valve check and also an inspection of any wear on the camshaft,
All valve checks from 1,000 klm have all been perfect and at the last valve check no wear at all,
Maybe i'm lucky or is it that i'm Not using the Motorex oil ???, Who knows..
Reason for Not using Motorex oil is because it's a ripoff and if anything went wrong KTM wouldn't honor anything warranty or whatever anyway...
Anyway thats my story with my KTM 890 Adventure S..
Cheers..
Thanks for sharing mate, very helpful 👍
Ty, got a 23 adv :)
Hey Solid ,why you have a hat indoors, stop it :))) Japanese manufacturers do optimal horse power per c.c. to make motor reliable. KTM pushed there motors to racing performance so there is a result.
It's pretty sad that a company (ktm) would charge ridiculous prices for a product that that has so many different issues across the the entire model range. I mean 15k for adventure bikes 13k for a dual sport 10 to 12k for dirt bike. And it always breaks down. They deserve to fail I'm in the US by the way..that usd
KTM ready to race and rebuild $$$$
Ktm needs to pare it back to simple bikes.
Get rid of all the tech ridden big chinese made bikes.
Whilst market volatility certainly exists, a fall of that magnitude impacts both its ability to raise money for future investment and it puts a lot of pressure on the management at KTM to cut costs which can destabilise long-term product development. It's not something that can be brushed aside.
Cams went on my 2014, 690 Duke at 15,000 Km.
Double masters in criminal justice eh???
I always thought that you were very well spoken and measured for an Aussie lad Solid, so I'm not at all surprised!
Thanks mate 👍
Running a company efficiently means off shore manufacturing, first nail in the coffin!
They have grown too big too fast, to diverse and too greedy. Wish they could go back to the 950 lc8 era and pick up where they left that path of simple, soulful and bulletproof adv bikes. I mean the T7 world raid for example is a bleak copy 20 years later and people loves it.
I’m glad I own a Husqvarna and not a KTM. :)