Ivan I cannnot thank you enough. Schools do not probaly teach real world like this anymore . Growing up in far flung place in Texas where the grocery store is an hour away. and you learnd how to fix everthing yourself.
When I was a young mechanic in the 1970s we had this saying: “90% of the carburettor problems are in reality ignition problems” Thanks for a video that reminded me of that Ivan…
I remember those to. B poor has a good point about throttle body FI. i think when in the infancy of FI,they didn't think about 1 injector per cly,but were more concerned about atomizing the fuel better.That and computers were simple and didn't have MODUALS they talked to.just the basics water fuel and oil pressure maybe air flow?and RPM.BUT the did get away from having to change JET SIZES to tune.NO where near as good as today.But with Today's cars you really do need an education and computer knowledge and cars perform much better,thanks IVAN.
Is it normal for these engines (or any gasoline engine) to stall the starter when cranking? I mean it sounded like the ignition is too much advanced and the too early combustion stopped the piston before it could reach TDC.
LOVE THAT TRUCK had. 1986 4-speed manual 4x4 went through 4 feet of snow with no problem and no chains...I would park it in deep snow...NICE REPAIR FORGOT ABOUT THAT GROUND I am too old, I repaired hundreds of those trucks. If you don't do this every day you forget so much .it sucks getting old.
my FIRST auto repair... as a very young kid..... a woman backed out of our driveway and into the upward sloped lawn across the street. She'd taken a chunk of turf in her tailpipe. I cleaned out the restriction and off she went.... NPR!
I instantly thought it may be an ignition timing problem at first. Until Ivan pulled the distributer cap and we got to see all that corrosion. Yikes! Got to love those old school HEI ignition systems. lol. Another great fix Ivan! Here is another great place to use dielectric grease. Any Ford or Chevy mechanic from the 70's and 80's would have buckets of the stuff on hand for instances like this.
So you know you’re watching someone with amazing skills when the basics and fundamentals are executed in an impressive manner. Yet another NPR. Just wow man. NPR KING.
I have a 1989 2500 TBI . Fuel pump sometime s sticks and I beat the bottom of fuel tank while cranking starts right up . That white stuff under module was heat sink compound.You must put it under module or it overheats fails from heat. Modules were the issue when you hear weird crank like timing jumped . HEI was the best most reliable ignition system easy to diagnose fix. These trucks rust out before they ever wear out . If you spray oil under frame to stop road salt rot it will last forever. I went to a " pick your own junk yard'" in Daytona beach FL and went and pulled modules coils relays fuses bulbs etc all the common parts that go bad a bucket full for GM truck vans 1986-2003 those years which some parts are NLA $20 a bucket of gold. PS on Ford s those years had to have a spark that jumps like 2inches or no start. They would have spark but if not huge gap jumped module was bad. I spent wasted hours on one 300 six EFI.
That is what I worked on back-in-the-day. I think 1987 was the first year for fuel injection in the 1/2 ton pickups with the V-8. I always loved that distributor in the back of the engine. Not all V-8 GM vehicles had fuel injection. My 1987 El Camino has computer command control; the engine control computer is in the passenger side kick panel. It has a 4 bbl. Rochester Quadrajet and the only thing the computer controls on the carburetor is the mixture. I think the Caprice, the Buick Electra/LeSabre estate, the Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser, and the Pontiac Parisienne used carburetors until 1990. I wish I had your diagnostic tool back in the day, Ivan! Great video!
I had a 1989 G20 Van . The 700R4 quit after 199K and a workout . I agree that there could be water getting under the hood from that rubber hood seal . Also stated is the dielectric grease under the ignition module to draw the heat away . That is a must . There are also screens at the base of the distributor that function as vents to remove a build up of - ozone ? They were put there for a reason . However there is discussion both pro and con . And the fuel filter may need a change . With a heavy load , going uphill , I could feel the restriction . You can also use a timing light to " strobe " the injectors and check the spray pattern . The fuel pressure regulator on the throttle body has a spring inside which can rust from water in the fuel . Otherwise a fairly basic system that just keeps going with some simple maintenance . Great fix - NO Parts Required !
Nailed it! I called the distributor soon as I heard it. I am surprised it didn't fry the module. Bad ground will eat those modules. I would still recommend he replace that distributor. ;)
Hi Ivan I noticed the bottom side of the ignition module was dry it should have thermal paste compound applied coating the bottom side to dissipate the heat from the module I miss these simple vehicle electronic systems lol.
@@wmichaels362 Thermal paste is what the O.E. originally used and is the standard that is used in electronics to remove heat typically it is a white color, thermal paste is far superior to dielectric grease
@@canadiancowboy5567 My apologies and thank you. I had been taught it was dielectric grease. Thermal paste it is! This came up on a search: DOWSIL™ 340 Heat Sink Compound
After the Maserati nightmare you could have phoned this one in. 😁 You really deserved a break for a change. Happy New Year to you and the Mrs. Thanks for another year of awesome case studies and fixes.
I always had Fords in the eighties and nineties but I really appreciated when you popped the hood on those throttle body injected eighties GM trucks that it looked like 1965 in there... You had your throttle body with an old style air cleaner and literally nothing else,,, it was SO clean. The sequential port fuel injected small block Ford's were NOT.. lol But I had 5 sequential port small block Fords from 87 through 96 two of those stayed with me til recently and they never broke...
That ignition system liked to have the spark punch through the ign rotor to the distributor shaft, and the distributor pickup coil liked to open. Lots of service calls on those vehicles. In the non-rust belt I didn't see much rust/ corrosion like that ign module. Beware of the aftermarket distributor caps, rotors, ignition modules and pickup coils. They were junk! Good one Ivan.
Those older TBI systems are pretty bulletproof. My first thought was fuel pressure regulator, fuel filter or rodents in the exhaust system. The pressure for those years was typically 10-12 psig, if memory serves. Love seeing the "old" stuff; your logical diagnostics methods work for old or new stuff!
@@GhettoWagon Hey man. Yeah I did the LT1 pump upgrade on my 93 Caprice and that worked great without overwhelming the regulator. I had my fuel pressure bumped up beyond 13 psi but forget exactly how far. I did a ton of custom tuning on my car back in the day to get it running as good as possible. Then I got to play with EBL for my father in laws turbo 292 with TBI and that thing is amazing. There was also the "$0.25" mod back in the day. Literally use a quarter as a shim under the regulator diaphragm. Fun times.
@@BigWheel. TBI has less power and worse fuel economy (stock). But is a much simpler system. You can tune them to run a lot better and get better fuel economy though.
A really good way to clean electrical corrosion like that is to sprinkle on a healthy dose of baking soda-- and rinse it off with boiling hot water (or just hot from the tap). I pour on just a little water and wire brush it a bit; It will fizz and bubble and eat away all that acidic corrosion and leave shinny metal behind. I always have a little box of baking soda in my kit now. It's basically free, because it's so cheap. No amount of scrubbing, scraping and sanding can clean it as well as an alkaline mix like that; especially on copper and aluminum. I have a little set of toothbrush sized wire brushes too, for tight spaces like that.. It's a god send for battery terminals too.
Nice diag, Ivan! Every time I got one of these old TBI GM V8's in, and the starter would spin and drag like that, I headed straight for the ignition system. I'm SUPER amazed that the module wasn't cooked, that's usually the first thing to go. I used to advise people to keep a spare in the glove box.
The reason that the modules don't last is heat. The modules usually come with a heat transfer paste and instructions to clean the old paste off the plate and apply the new paste. Of course 80% of mechanics never read instructions so they don't clean off the dried out paste or apply the new paste. Then they complain that the modules have a high failure rate.
As a former TBI nerd I wanted to go on record (having watched 8 seconds so far) that this is likely a super simple issue. ICM (under dist) or pickup coil (under dist) are likely suspects. The only question is where to get a quality ICM these days. Not sure if the pickup coils are also hard to find (that work). Oh, or weak fuel pump!!! Block learn at 149. There's your problem, lady. Insufficient fuel delivery. 128 is the equivalent of 0%. Integrator is the STFT.
Snow and salt spray environment and you guys want to fire the parts cannon at it after an 8 second diagnosis. Great ideas all, if you work at a dealership.
@@Anonymous-it5jw They are known for failures long before 30 years of corrosion takes hold. Also back in the day those parts were available and cheap. To my own point, you wouldn't want to just throw a random aftermarket ICM at it so I agree with the approach here for sure. Ok I checked Rockauto. Surprisingly you can still get a GM ICM for $78.79 which I admit is not $35 but I think these days anything double digits for a part price is considered a win.
Yeah... You could tell there was a timing issue by the way it was kicking back and struggling on the cranking event. Nice, it was an NPR fix. Pretty bulletproof module if it keeps working its little heart out even though nobody loves it.
Yep the reason why that is happening is because you are missing the hood to cowl rubber seal which keeps the water flowing to the outside of fender channel which is a common problem and to solve this you need to make a water diverter, so the distributor doesn't accumulate water also it look like it need a tune up to and did remember to add the thermal paste ? to the underside of the module and you're supposed to use a wire brush to clean that
I agree about the cowl. An easy fix without fabricating anything is to slather that area with petroleum jelly each fall. Seems like the distributor is going unharmed, just need to get that timing regulator from losing ground again.
In the 91-93 Caprices the dist was completely under the cowl which was annoying for servicing but did prevent this issue, apparently. Fun fact: the 91-93 B-body used it's own intake manifold part number. The distributor hole was machined larger so you could angle the dist enough to get it out from under the cowl.
I was surprised that the distributor cap came off so easily. One of the screws broke on the one on my 90 that I use to plow snow about 7 years ago. I tied it down with a zip tie for a "temporary" fix and bought a distributor that I never installed. The fuel pump died on it two years ago. No way the rusty tank was coming out so I used a boat tank in the bed. This year it wouldn't start, no spark no injector pulse so the previously purchased distributor finally got installed. As others have said, the heat transfer paste [silicone grease] is vital to the survival of the modules. The WD40 might suffice for a while.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I know. Car makers are trying to cross too many things off right now. Gas, hybrid, electric, turbocharged. I think the fragmentation has a negative effect
As soon as I heard the engine fighting itself when cranking, I thought ignition timing and "open that distributer"! Old School vehicles that sit around build up condensation in the caps. They arc between the posts, have corroded terminals and ignition modules. They just need a little love once in awhile.
I was ready to fire a fuel pump at it. Shame on me for guessing but those old trucks I guess don't need 50 psi to run. just no rust required I guess. Great job Ivan.
Great videos as always Ivan. If you get one of those again, and have a fuel smell in the cab, check the ECM. Give it a sniff. If ECM smells like fuel, replace the throttle body injectors. Cause was leaky injector(s) and (+) side drawing fuel through wire to ECM. (2.5-5.7-7.4 ltr engines)
I thought this was a Watch Wes Work video for a second lol looks like the kind of truck he usually works on. Ivan goes from a 2016 Maserati to a 1987 GMC lol.
100 % right sold car parts need that grease , bet it burns up without it ,it was the white junk on distributor. Sold point sets came with a red grease pill without the grease on the cam they would`t last a day.
I was pretty confident that the distributer was loose, and the timing was out of wack, with the bucking and backfiring. I was incorrect. Corrosion strikes again! Good repair.
Those old chevy V8s have plastic toothed cam gears that were always cracked when I went into the engines. Some Fords too. I bought a 73 Cougar with the Cleveland V8 with 100k miles on it. It wasn't running right. When I changed the oil I found plastic pieces on the top of the oil filter.
I loved how you said the only thing left is spark timing and then immediately said "I'll put a scope on it." WHAT THE HELL'S WRONG WITH USING A TIMING LIGHT IVAN? You kids these days.
Great job! I just knew that the ESC module was bad and none were available - but thankfully, I was wrong. I have an '84 with a carburetor and ESC - no computer. Looked for parts proactively. My ESC module is inside the cab behind the glove box. Hope I haven't just jinxed myself!!
Hope he has the coolant/antifreeze ratio on 50/50 and fairly fresh. You really can't put a dollar amount on old GMC vehicles as they have their utility needs. Owner needs to give this older truck some added maintenance if he is planning on it giving decent service when its needed. Great call by the no parts guy.
Back in the day it took me 2 years to find my distributor on my 86 GMC truck was seized up and wouldn't advance,that holly 650 that I put on chasing the problem,wow did that truck run!!!
I think some or most of that "corrosion" under the ignition module is just old heatsink compound. I'd probably recommend replacing the module or keeping a spare in the glovebox.
Hey wow! I have the exact same truck with a plow on it too. Fairbanks, Alaska. Love my truck. Tbi has been bullet proof for 10+ years I’ve had it. Mine is two tone white/blue. Every year 2-3 people stop and ask me to buy it. No thanks.
Ivan, those old trucks just need some old fashion loving care! In the end sounds pretty good. An oil change and filter should make it a great runner for the entire snow season. Thanks for Sharing! P.S. Hope it has an awesome heater?
I can remember when my great uncles stepdaughters 1997 Ford EL Falcon (Australian made Ford) did that a bad aftermarket engine immobilizer/ car alarm caused that & the fix wax to rewire the ignition positive feen from the ignition switch to the ECU, ignition coil,etc so that it bypassed the engine immobiliser/ alarm which obviously had high resistance inside of it ,in other words,wire it up to how Ford originally had it wired up as !
Your slow fuel pressure build is most likely a fp relay. There is a parallel switch on the oil pressure switch/sensor that will allow the fp to eventually get power. You should have had a couple of seconds of fuel pump from just rotating the ignition switch, even before you corrected the distributor issue. Common long crank cause on 80sTBI GMs.
Ivan, i have been binge watching for the past week. Love your content, your skills are second to none. I was wondering what your origin story is, lol. Have you always been a car mechanic, electronic guru, or how did this passion start?
by 2:25 ignition ignition ignition. they're known for EGR problems too, if after all ignition parts are changed it has tip in stumble and misfire, look no further than the EGR, the bleed off port will be rusted and blocked, making it open too far and fast. the spark doesn't know where to go and is wildly going everywhere, the hard bucking and sneezing on crank tells the story, only other thing that could be is someone played with the timing and has it way advanced. but likely not the case, as I'm sure I'll see in the video. with "scanner" plugged in it goes into different mode and shouldn't be driven either. you'll get advanced timing, high idle and all sorts of oddness if you try driving them.
I have an 88 with the same set-up. It sits a lot so I try to make a habit of starting it once a month. Almost always I have to pull the air cleaner off and lightly tap on the TBI injectors with a hammer and punch to free them up. Once I do that it will run flawlessly but it’s a crank no-start until I do. 280,000ish miles.
Very interesting problem :) Makes me wonder if my old 1990 Mazda in 2003 really had failed ignition module inside the distributor, or did it just have bad ground like this one. It had nearly broken ground wire though between transmission case and body, but never thought about the ignition module screws being a ground path as well. Symptoms were that it started fine when it was cold, but while it warmed up, it stalled and cranked but didn't start, until it cooled down again. The ignition module was replaced in my car, but perhaps with knowledge like this, maybe it could've been no parts required fix? First replacement module was even some poor quality aftermarket junk, as after just 100 km, the car died again and peaces of the module were laying inside the distributor. Got better one for warranty and it lasted the rest of the time, with fixed ground wire.
I have a 1988 G30 van with the same type of ignition system the ignition module is located under the distributor cap. Those do have issues getting corrosion on them more so in the pickups than the vans. On the pickup the spark control module is located next to the map sensor which is next to the TBI injection throttlebody. Just thought you would like to know for future reference. Love the videos keep up the good work.
I love your diagnostic skills, watch all your videos but have to laugh every time you get an older vehicle and start testing with modern equipment and techniques. As soon as you hit the starter and it bucked rather than turning over smoothly, we would have had the distributer cap off. Good find but took an extra 10 minutes LOL! Not criticizing just old time experience! Keep up the great videos. I'm amazed your not afraid of tackling anything!!
Customer,
"Can you fix it?"
Ivan,
"Dude I just fixed a Maserati (:"
Ivan I cannnot thank you enough. Schools do not probaly teach real world like this anymore . Growing up in far flung place in Texas where the grocery store is an hour away. and you learnd how to fix everthing yourself.
When I was a young mechanic in the 1970s we had this saying: “90% of the carburettor problems are in reality ignition problems” Thanks for a video that reminded me of that Ivan…
Very true it was most of the time. But I also remember those early yrs with throttle body injection those injectors went bad often.
This is fuel injected though
I remember those to. B poor has a good point about throttle body FI. i think when in the infancy of FI,they didn't think about 1 injector per cly,but were more concerned about atomizing the fuel better.That and computers were simple and didn't have MODUALS they talked to.just the basics water fuel and oil pressure maybe air flow?and RPM.BUT the did get away from having to change JET SIZES to tune.NO where near as good as today.But with Today's cars you really do need an education and computer knowledge and cars perform much better,thanks IVAN.
Is it normal for these engines (or any gasoline engine) to stall the starter when cranking? I mean it sounded like the ignition is too much advanced and the too early combustion stopped the piston before it could reach TDC.
@@SLeslie I was wondering about timing as well after that.
LOVE THAT TRUCK had. 1986 4-speed manual 4x4 went through 4 feet of snow with no problem and no chains...I would park it in deep snow...NICE REPAIR FORGOT ABOUT THAT GROUND I am too old, I repaired hundreds of those trucks. If you don't do this every day you forget so much .it sucks getting old.
Its such a good feeling to see an old vehicle still running and Ivan didnt give up
I would ten times rather have that truck than most of the new trucks out there today.
my FIRST auto repair... as a very young kid..... a woman backed out of our driveway and into the upward sloped lawn across the street. She'd taken a chunk of turf in her tailpipe. I cleaned out the restriction and off she went.... NPR!
I instantly thought it may be an ignition timing problem at first. Until Ivan pulled the distributer cap and we got to see all that corrosion. Yikes! Got to love those old school HEI ignition systems. lol. Another great fix Ivan! Here is another great place to use dielectric grease. Any Ford or Chevy mechanic from the 70's and 80's would have buckets of the stuff on hand for instances like this.
So you know you’re watching someone with amazing skills when the basics and fundamentals are executed in an impressive manner. Yet another NPR. Just wow man. NPR KING.
NPR gives me the warm fuzzy feeling LOL
Nothing better than an ecstatic customer... he's probably making snow Angels 😇 now!
This guy is a riot. You should give him a discount for being a happy cheery person.
His wife and family made an amazing Ukrainian dinner so I didn't charge for the diag 😊
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics - I've had Russian cuisine, cooked by a Russian/Ukranian. I'd charge extra. :)
I have a 1989 2500 TBI . Fuel pump sometime s sticks and I beat the bottom of fuel tank while cranking starts right up .
That white stuff under module was heat sink compound.You must put it under module or it overheats fails from heat.
Modules were the issue when you hear weird crank like timing jumped .
HEI was the best most reliable ignition system easy to diagnose fix.
These trucks rust out before they ever wear out .
If you spray oil under frame to stop road salt rot it will last forever.
I went to a " pick your own junk yard'" in Daytona beach FL and went and pulled modules coils relays fuses bulbs etc all the common parts that go bad a bucket full for GM truck vans 1986-2003 those years which some parts are NLA
$20 a bucket of gold.
PS on Ford s those years had to have a spark that jumps like 2inches or no start.
They would have spark but if not huge gap jumped module was bad.
I spent wasted hours on one 300 six EFI.
That is what I worked on back-in-the-day. I think 1987 was the first year for fuel injection in the 1/2 ton pickups with the V-8. I always loved that distributor in the back of the engine. Not all V-8 GM vehicles had fuel injection. My 1987 El Camino has computer command control; the engine control computer is in the passenger side kick panel. It has a 4 bbl. Rochester Quadrajet and the only thing the computer controls on the carburetor is the mixture. I think the Caprice, the Buick Electra/LeSabre estate, the Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser, and the Pontiac Parisienne used carburetors until 1990. I wish I had your diagnostic tool back in the day, Ivan! Great video!
Those square bodies are pretty reliable if you just keep after the basics....shame vehicles can't be that simple anymore.
...meanwhile Ivan's wife is sitting at home in the garage, in the Maserati 🤣
Lmao. The non running one
Nice of you to help him out, he needs to be doing some plowing for you when necessary
I had a 1989 G20 Van . The 700R4 quit after 199K and a workout . I agree that there could be water getting under the hood from that rubber hood seal . Also stated is the dielectric grease under the ignition module to draw the heat away . That is a must . There are also screens at the base of the distributor that function as vents to remove a build up of - ozone ? They were put there for a reason . However there is discussion both pro and con . And the fuel filter may need a change . With a heavy load , going uphill , I could feel the restriction . You can also use a timing light to " strobe " the injectors and check the spray pattern . The fuel pressure regulator on the throttle body has a spring inside which can rust from water in the fuel . Otherwise a fairly basic system that just keeps going with some simple maintenance . Great fix - NO Parts Required !
And keep in mind the thin wires on the magnetic pick up . They can rub through and create havoc !
It's nice to have a customer as a hype man 🤣
I would also apply heatsink compound to the ignition module to aid in heat transfer across the module if I had that on hand !
Nailed it! I called the distributor soon as I heard it. I am surprised it didn't fry the module. Bad ground will eat those modules. I would still recommend he replace that distributor. ;)
no, this truck is 35 years old; anything added is not necessary.
those late 80s to early 2000s GM trucks/vans had the cheap plasitc distributors that would cause all kinds of misfires and stalls
@@workingshlub8861 True story. The day after this video posted I had to replace the distributor in the ex-wife's 1994 S-10 Blazer. XD
Hi Ivan I noticed the bottom side of the ignition module was dry it should have thermal paste compound applied coating the bottom side to dissipate the heat from the module I miss these simple vehicle electronic systems lol.
ACDelco GM Original Equipment 10-4064 Dielectric Grease - $14/Amazon
@@wmichaels362 Thermal paste is what the O.E. originally used and is the standard that is used in electronics to remove heat typically it is a white color, thermal paste is far superior to dielectric grease
You beat me to it. Perhaps Ivan did, he just didn't show us.
@@canadiancowboy5567 My apologies and thank you. I had been taught it was dielectric grease. Thermal paste it is! This came up on a search: DOWSIL™ 340 Heat Sink Compound
After the Maserati nightmare you could have phoned this one in. 😁 You really deserved a break for a change. Happy New Year to you and the Mrs. Thanks for another year of awesome case studies and fixes.
Another happy customer! Cool dude with a nice set back house!
I like these analog car repairs too. Mix them in with the tough technical ones Ivan.
I always had Fords in the eighties and nineties but I really appreciated when you popped the hood on those throttle body injected eighties GM trucks that it looked like 1965 in there...
You had your throttle body with an old style air cleaner and literally nothing else,,, it was SO clean.
The sequential port fuel injected small block Ford's were NOT.. lol
But I had 5 sequential port small block Fords from 87 through 96 two of those stayed with me til recently and they never broke...
Very cool video. The old plow truck lives!
That ignition system liked to have the spark punch through the ign rotor to the distributor shaft, and the distributor pickup coil liked to open.
Lots of service calls on those vehicles.
In the non-rust belt I didn't see much rust/ corrosion like that ign module. Beware of the aftermarket distributor caps, rotors, ignition modules and pickup coils. They were junk!
Good one Ivan.
Those older TBI systems are pretty bulletproof. My first thought was fuel pressure regulator, fuel filter or rodents in the exhaust system. The pressure for those years was typically 10-12 psig, if memory serves. Love seeing the "old" stuff; your logical diagnostics methods work for old or new stuff!
They scoot if you can get it closer to 12 even 13 psi. Mine is running at 13psi now way faster. The New Fuel pumps suck I bought a NOS one its strong
@@GhettoWagon Hey man. Yeah I did the LT1 pump upgrade on my 93 Caprice and that worked great without overwhelming the regulator. I had my fuel pressure bumped up beyond 13 psi but forget exactly how far. I did a ton of custom tuning on my car back in the day to get it running as good as possible. Then I got to play with EBL for my father in laws turbo 292 with TBI and that thing is amazing. There was also the "$0.25" mod back in the day. Literally use a quarter as a shim under the regulator diaphragm. Fun times.
How do they compare to the later spider injection?
@@BigWheel. TBI has less power and worse fuel economy (stock). But is a much simpler system. You can tune them to run a lot better and get better fuel economy though.
@@BigWheel. The SCPI systems with the poppets at teh ports were junk, lots of recalls and issues with static charge. The TBI's were solid.
A really good way to clean electrical corrosion like that is to sprinkle on a healthy dose of baking soda-- and rinse it off with boiling hot water (or just hot from the tap). I pour on just a little water and wire brush it a bit; It will fizz and bubble and eat away all that acidic corrosion and leave shinny metal behind. I always have a little box of baking soda in my kit now. It's basically free, because it's so cheap. No amount of scrubbing, scraping and sanding can clean it as well as an alkaline mix like that; especially on copper and aluminum. I have a little set of toothbrush sized wire brushes too, for tight spaces like that.. It's a god send for battery terminals too.
That man was so happy! That truck was awesome especially at that year!! NPR we like that!!! Hope you both had a great Christmas!!
Nice diag, Ivan! Every time I got one of these old TBI GM V8's in, and the starter would spin and drag like that, I headed straight for the ignition system. I'm SUPER amazed that the module wasn't cooked, that's usually the first thing to go. I used to advise people to keep a spare in the glove box.
You need half a dozen. One of them will last more than a few weeks out of the bunch.
The reason that the modules don't last is heat. The modules usually come with a heat transfer paste and instructions to clean the old paste off the plate and apply the new paste. Of course 80% of mechanics never read instructions so they don't clean off the dried out paste or apply the new paste. Then they complain that the modules have a high failure rate.
I keep a spare module and rotor in my glove box, and the 7.5 mm socket to get the module screws out.
You're so systematic Ivan! Check for fuel first, then the spark. Fuel okay, took you 5 mins to fix the spark. You da man!!
As a former TBI nerd I wanted to go on record (having watched 8 seconds so far) that this is likely a super simple issue. ICM (under dist) or pickup coil (under dist) are likely suspects. The only question is where to get a quality ICM these days. Not sure if the pickup coils are also hard to find (that work). Oh, or weak fuel pump!!! Block learn at 149. There's your problem, lady. Insufficient fuel delivery. 128 is the equivalent of 0%. Integrator is the STFT.
Wat? 🤔
Yep. As soon as I heard it, I said it needs a distributor. Cross firing. Like you, Im only a few seconds into it.
@@arcademania7544 149/128 = +16% long term fuel trim. That's not normal.
Snow and salt spray environment and you guys want to fire the parts cannon at it after an 8 second diagnosis. Great ideas all, if you work at a dealership.
@@Anonymous-it5jw They are known for failures long before 30 years of corrosion takes hold. Also back in the day those parts were available and cheap. To my own point, you wouldn't want to just throw a random aftermarket ICM at it so I agree with the approach here for sure.
Ok I checked Rockauto. Surprisingly you can still get a GM ICM for $78.79 which I admit is not $35 but I think these days anything double digits for a part price is considered a win.
Yeah... You could tell there was a timing issue by the way it was kicking back and struggling on the cranking event. Nice, it was an NPR fix. Pretty bulletproof module if it keeps working its little heart out even though nobody loves it.
Yep the reason why that is happening is because you are missing the hood to cowl rubber seal which keeps the water flowing to the outside of fender channel which is a common problem and to solve this you need to make a water diverter, so the distributor doesn't accumulate water also it look like it need a tune up to and did remember to add the thermal paste ? to the underside of the module and you're supposed to use a wire brush to clean that
I agree about the cowl. An easy fix without fabricating anything is to slather that area with petroleum jelly each fall. Seems like the distributor is going unharmed, just need to get that timing regulator from losing ground again.
In the 91-93 Caprices the dist was completely under the cowl which was annoying for servicing but did prevent this issue, apparently. Fun fact: the 91-93 B-body used it's own intake manifold part number. The distributor hole was machined larger so you could angle the dist enough to get it out from under the cowl.
I was surprised that the distributor cap came off so easily. One of the screws broke on the one on my 90 that I use to plow snow about 7 years ago. I tied it down with a zip tie for a "temporary" fix and bought a distributor that I never installed. The fuel pump died on it two years ago. No way the rusty tank was coming out so I used a boat tank in the bed. This year it wouldn't start, no spark no injector pulse so the previously purchased distributor finally got installed. As others have said, the heat transfer paste [silicone grease] is vital to the survival of the modules. The WD40 might suffice for a while.
I don’t know this time of year is tough and I never had a bad Christmas. It’s more missing those times that gets me now. Golly it can be tough.
Yeah the general state of affairs is getting a bit depressing... Similar to the malaise era with cars getting LESS reliable by the year 😕
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I know. Car makers are trying to cross too many things off right now. Gas, hybrid, electric, turbocharged. I think the fragmentation has a negative effect
As soon as I heard the engine fighting itself when cranking, I thought ignition timing and "open that distributer"! Old School vehicles that sit around build up condensation in the caps. They arc between the posts, have corroded terminals and ignition modules. They just need a little love once in awhile.
For so many years I’ve been able to depend on you through the holidays and I dog gone appreciate it.
Hi Ivan,
Nice no parts needed. Just a little cleaning the crusties away. Stay safe.
For an old plow truck it is in fantastic shape
I was ready to fire a fuel pump at it. Shame on me for guessing but those old trucks I guess don't need 50 psi to run. just no rust required I guess. Great job Ivan.
Love how excited the guy got when it started. But then, it died. Lol
Your customer seemed like he was really into the holiday spirits.
From a Maserati to an 87 Jimmy, Ivan does it all. Very impressive 👏
Great videos as always Ivan. If you get one of those again, and have a fuel smell in the cab, check the ECM. Give it a sniff. If ECM smells like fuel, replace the throttle body injectors. Cause was leaky injector(s) and (+) side drawing fuel through wire to ECM. (2.5-5.7-7.4 ltr engines)
I thought this was a Watch Wes Work video for a second lol
looks like the kind of truck he usually works on. Ivan goes from a 2016 Maserati to a 1987 GMC lol.
That Ivan, is my rendition of what is, "A RED NECK SNOWPLOW" ......
Forgot the ignition control module dielectric grease , you`ll be back .
In 10 years maybe 😂
Hope you didn't forget the heat sink compound under the module.
100 % right sold car parts need that grease , bet it burns up without it ,it was the white junk on distributor. Sold point sets came with a red grease pill without the grease on the cam they would`t last a day.
I was pretty confident that the distributer was loose, and the timing was out of wack, with the bucking and backfiring. I was incorrect. Corrosion strikes again! Good repair.
Those old chevy V8s have plastic toothed cam gears that were always cracked when I went into the engines. Some Fords too. I bought a 73 Cougar with the Cleveland V8 with 100k miles on it. It wasn't running right. When I changed the oil I found plastic pieces on the top of the oil filter.
Very smart diagnosis and repair.
this "poor ground" problem kind of remind me of no crank problem with my 93 corolla, it's amazing this small problem could make so much headache
I loved how you said the only thing left is spark timing and then immediately said "I'll put a scope on it." WHAT THE HELL'S WRONG WITH USING A TIMING LIGHT IVAN? You kids these days.
That owner drinking a tallboy reminds me of uncle Eddie.
Great job! I just knew that the ESC module was bad and none were available - but thankfully, I was wrong. I have an '84 with a carburetor and ESC - no computer. Looked for parts proactively. My ESC module is inside the cab behind the glove box. Hope I haven't just jinxed myself!!
From it fighting the starter motor - the timing is well over advanced -
one computer--I love it.
Good times. Thanks for sharing this and will apply this fault finding to my cranky Transam. Certain it will be the ignition module now. Cheers
Hope he has the coolant/antifreeze ratio on 50/50 and fairly fresh. You really can't put a dollar amount on old GMC vehicles as they have their utility needs. Owner needs to give this older truck some added maintenance if he is planning on it giving decent service when its needed. Great call by the no parts guy.
Back in the day it took me 2 years to find my distributor on my 86 GMC truck was seized up and wouldn't advance,that holly 650 that I put on chasing the problem,wow did that truck run!!!
10psi? I learn something new everyday
Ivan fixes it again 👍✔.
Back to basics, but still needed a diagnosis.
Drywaller's bench is a really good height to reach into these trucks. The fold up and some are adjustable.
The satisfaction of fixing these vehicles must be so invigorating. Nice work as always Ivan!
I havea 91 GMC did the same thing cleaned up the ignition module away she went love those old trucks .
Love that old starter "chug"
I think some or most of that "corrosion" under the ignition module is just old heatsink compound. I'd probably recommend replacing the module or keeping a spare in the glovebox.
It's possible that it's old heatsink compound. Some thick grease might achieve a sufficient substitute for that compound.
I have one in glove box and hear sink is often mistaken as corrosion .. 😂
Hey wow! I have the exact same truck with a plow on it too. Fairbanks, Alaska. Love my truck. Tbi has been bullet proof for 10+ years I’ve had it. Mine is two tone white/blue. Every year 2-3 people stop and ask me to buy it. No thanks.
Another genius diagnostic. Brilliant!
Ivan, those old trucks just need some old fashion loving care! In the end sounds pretty good. An oil change and filter should make it a great runner for the entire snow season. Thanks for Sharing! P.S. Hope it has an awesome heater?
I live in n.w. Arkansas. Very glad we get little snow.
I can remember when my great uncles stepdaughters 1997 Ford EL Falcon (Australian made Ford) did that a bad aftermarket engine immobilizer/ car alarm caused that & the fix wax to rewire the ignition positive feen from the ignition switch to the ECU, ignition coil,etc so that it bypassed the engine immobiliser/ alarm which obviously had high resistance inside of it ,in other words,wire it up to how Ford originally had it wired up as !
Your slow fuel pressure build is most likely a fp relay. There is a parallel switch on the oil pressure switch/sensor that will allow the fp to eventually get power. You should have had a couple of seconds of fuel pump from just rotating the ignition switch, even before you corrected the distributor issue. Common long crank cause on 80sTBI GMs.
Yes! Chased this for a long time until I learned about the redundant oil pressure switch. Changed out the fuel pump relay and it was back to 100%.
Ivan, i have been binge watching for the past week. Love your content, your skills are second to none. I was wondering what your origin story is, lol. Have you always been a car mechanic, electronic guru, or how did this passion start?
See my website :)
Smashing repair ivan , you made that mans day :-D
And everyone can use the roads :-D
Alpha truck! GM and Ford should release hard-core, bare-bones trucks again. They won't even need to lower the prices.
Ahhh the good old days. Nice NPR
by 2:25 ignition ignition ignition. they're known for EGR problems too, if after all ignition parts are changed it has tip in stumble and misfire, look no further than the EGR, the bleed off port will be rusted and blocked, making it open too far and fast.
the spark doesn't know where to go and is wildly going everywhere, the hard bucking and sneezing on crank tells the story, only other thing that could be is someone played with the timing and has it way advanced. but likely not the case, as I'm sure I'll see in the video.
with "scanner" plugged in it goes into different mode and shouldn't be driven either. you'll get advanced timing, high idle and all sorts of oddness if you try driving them.
That brings back memories, Thanks
My brother that's awesome happy new years.
Merry Christmas to everyone
Another "NPR". Ivan is the man.
Nice 👍👍👍👍👍.....those late 80's gm's were plagued with bad computer grounds as well.
experience tells .. great diagnosis . and one happy owner .
Thanks Ivan that was a great video. You were able to cut the specific parts needed to get the engine to run. Fuel OK, Air OK, Spark not so good.
The owner reaction mad this one hilarous loool i like this guy.
Wow, easy-peazy... I would have used a good wire brush on that module mounting plate, that's just me though, nice work Ivan!
Well done Ivan, a happy result for the new year.
Good times Ivan!
great job saving that old girl, nice one
Wow! I thought it was timing the way it was dragging at times while cranking. Pays to check everything.
I have an 88 with the same set-up. It sits a lot so I try to make a habit of starting it once a month. Almost always I have to pull the air cleaner off and lightly tap on the TBI injectors with a hammer and punch to free them up. Once I do that it will run flawlessly but it’s a crank no-start until I do. 280,000ish miles.
Very interesting problem :) Makes me wonder if my old 1990 Mazda in 2003 really had failed ignition module inside the distributor, or did it just have bad ground like this one. It had nearly broken ground wire though between transmission case and body, but never thought about the ignition module screws being a ground path as well.
Symptoms were that it started fine when it was cold, but while it warmed up, it stalled and cranked but didn't start, until it cooled down again.
The ignition module was replaced in my car, but perhaps with knowledge like this, maybe it could've been no parts required fix?
First replacement module was even some poor quality aftermarket junk, as after just 100 km, the car died again and peaces of the module were laying inside the distributor. Got better one for warranty and it lasted the rest of the time, with fixed ground wire.
Sound like timing was out some to Meijer as well. I had to put a timing light on or something and made some adjustments if needed.
I have a 1988 G30 van with the same type of ignition system the ignition module is located under the distributor cap. Those do have issues getting corrosion on them more so in the pickups than the vans. On the pickup the spark control module is located next to the map sensor which is next to the TBI injection throttlebody. Just thought you would like to know for future reference. Love the videos keep up the good work.
I love your diagnostic skills, watch all your videos but have to laugh every time you get an older vehicle and start testing with modern equipment and techniques. As soon as you hit the starter and it bucked rather than turning over smoothly, we would have had the distributer cap off.
Good find but took an extra 10 minutes LOL! Not criticizing just old time experience! Keep up the great videos. I'm amazed your not afraid of tackling anything!!
Good job done. Happy New Year from Cache Creek, BC. Canada.
Those modules need some conductive paste where it meets the distributor