If they make a 5-6 compact gearbox for DH (without the motor of course) they would be already ahead of pinion. Anyway, ebikes with gearbox + motor units are going to be huge. Good to see another competitor. Shimano and Sram better be watching
Well done to the guys who brought out the GD8, I hope the manufacturer of bikes chose their motor. We are on the cusp of a new wave of mountain bike ebike gearboxes.
I really hope the intradrive system is successful. I’ve been following the development and it looks like a great system. Looking forward to seeing it on the show 😊
I didn’t get that vibe at all. He talked about all the gearbox companies that have gone bust and he talked about noise from the preproduction model. This is challenging tech go get right and in budget .
Hey David, thanyou for the feedback. Just to confirm that this video was not sponsored. The concept of a motor-gearbox system is one that gets people excited, and this might have been aplified by the belt-drive discussion in elite level downhill racing at the moment.
Thanks for the interest in my anti Flickerty Sticks. (NOT SKITS Neil). Big problem in Australia with rigid eucalypt sticks destroying hundreds of derailleurs. Cheers Rob Haskins E=mtb² but is the Amflow E =mtb³
@@robhaskins3068 Thanks for info Rob! Defo a possible way for me to go. I may pay £££ and get a Nicolai with Pinion...or wait for an Avinox/Pinion to be released 👍
@embn Hello Neil 👋. I'm a bit Lexdisic too. I often end up with a Batt Flattery. Glad you liked the Rohloff hub idea with the protected forward mounted tensioner. It all works very well and gives me peace of mind charging through sticks. My next project is to centre mount a manual change Rohloff above the DJI Avinox motor. Short chain drive to it. Then pivot the swing arm directly from the frame mounted Rohloff axle with a belt or chain to a very light rear wheel. No need for a tensioner .It's a high pivot MGU that's near silent with a proven Rohloff( mid mounted )and most important it's quiet and powerful . Cheers Rob. E=mtb²
Apparently, the primary problem of motor reliability is water ingress. Surely adequate sealing takes precedence over increased motor drag produced by adequate sealing. Why build motors which let the water in just because they want efficiency? That's a load of crap, plainly. More motor power fixes the poor sealing problem. Why the rip-off with unreliable motors? It's deliberate, it's obvious.
@@Adam-r8z6g I read an interesting deep.dive on this and the long and short seemed to suggest that a lot of "moisture" issues are often condensation. Cold metal housing, motor generates heat, then you get condensation on the inside.
I had my 2017 Brose motor re-conditioned by PureSports in south Queensland. The major thing Paul from PureSports talked about was seals and improvements to keep water out. Nearly 2 years later my motor is still running strong and I am riding more often than ever. (Oh, by the way. At the same time as reconditioning my motor Paul installed a Rohloff Speedhub on the rear for me. It has now covered over 2.5 thousand kilometres and has just had its 2nd oil change. The gearbox has performed faultlessly.)
this is an interesting topic and one that all of the big brands make efforts in reducing any water ingress. Here are a couple of deep dives to help share a little more on the subject: We went to visit Bafang last year, here is their testing facility 👉 th-cam.com/video/1SqDrwiytzQ/w-d-xo.html Steve has also made a whole video looking into this 👉th-cam.com/video/B0m1etWVL2c/w-d-xo.html
I’ve been running the GX T type for more than 2000km now with out a hitch,it was set and forget, I changed to wax and have no chain wear so far. So until gearbox drive becomes cheaper and lighter I will stick with the mech, loving Neil on the show
We should be concerned about the narrowing gap between e-MTBs and motorcycles. The uninformed general public and politicians may view all e-MTBs as motorized vehicles, potentially leading to more trail closures, restrictions, and negative bias. Throttle-controlled applications, as opposed to pedal-assist systems, pose a particular challenge. It may become increasingly difficult to argue the differences between various types of electric two-wheelers. Electric motorcycles already exist without multi-speed integrated transmissions. The integration of motors and gearboxes in e-MTBs, similar to motorcycles, offers numerous technical benefits. However, this development may signal a significant shift in how we define bicycles. Even the adoption of mid-drive e-MTBs has led to access restrictions in some regions based on the general design of these machines. While e-MTBs offer exciting possibilities, we must carefully consider their impact on trail access and work towards clear regulations that distinguish between different types of electric two-wheelers.
I thoroughly agree. Those of us who were early adopters of eMTBs will remember the resistance we experienced from other MTB riders and trail builders. They were scared that the torque from our rear wheels would chop up their trails. Once pedal assist was more accepted we gradually began sharing trails together. But with eMTB motors becoming more powerful with motors like the DJI, we must be conscious of the risk of our eMTBs being regarded as pseudo-motorbikes. Additionally, the motorbike industry is beginning to adopt electric motors. The blur between an eMTB and an e-MXmotorbike is a worry. We do not want to be banned from our beloved MTB trails.
the laws and guidelines vary around the world. It is up to the rider/user to comply with their local laws, guidelines and common sense. Outside of legal frameworks it's important that collectivly we the e bike community share ebikes in a positive light
The Avinox motor is not just about the "raw power", it's also about the software and intergration it has, the battery tech it has. Thats what makes DJI such a dominate force in the drone, action camera, gimbal, mics..etc.. etc.. market. They make good quality products with great support.
I felt quite uncomfortable watching this and stopped watching after about 10 minutes. First time I have ever felt like that, as a long term viewer and subscriber. I got the distinct impression that Steve is resentful / hostile towards Neil. He was constantly making “ fun” of Neil’s comments, making disparaging remarks and seemingly trying to belittle Neil’s contributions. Neil remained calm and good humoured throughout and I know he does not need anyone to “ stick up for him” He’s more than capable of doing that for himself. Nevertheless, I found it quite unpleasant to watch / listen to and wonder if Steve perhaps feels a bit threatened by Neil’s recent arrival as a full time EMBN presenter. I could be completely wrong, of course…. maybe it was just an ill judged attempt by Steve to be humorous.
with top end new emb costing 4k + ... its worth looking at second hand bikes from a store with a motor and battery warranty. Decathlon have good deals. i got a Flyer enroc for 2k
MGU are perfect for e-bikes since the drawback for a pedal bike is their inefficiency. I can't wait to end my hate-tolerate relationship with derailleurs and replace them with a MGU. Advantages, as I see it, are well placed weight, lighter rear wheel, and no more derailleur failures. Find out for us wtf Zerode is up to with theirs, will you?
Derailleurs and chains aren’t reliable either, look at the issue people have all the time. How can motorcycle manufacturers build a weather proof motor and gearbox, yet e-bike motors continue to have issues with water ingress?
@windinthewillows6248 my motorcycles vented to outside air, head and trans. The oil is splashed everywhere inside so everything is protected for awhile. Any condensation is boiled out while running. They don't have circuit boards either
i've had over ten bikes with deraileurs ,some medium quality some better over the last thirty years and not one of them ever failed or had any issues . No they are very reliable
At first read I thought you were paying a little too close attention to this super-niche video… but upon further viewing, you’re right. Guy on viewer’s left is openly hostile towards the other presenter. Hey, lay off with the digs.
I was thinking the same thing, Steve has forced more co-presenters out with his surly, argumentative attitude, I think Neil is a refreshing change to the channel, liked him on gmbn, think he will make this channel watchable again.
Hopefully the industry and consumers get behind this motor- especially as it’s designed to be repairable too . Gushing over more and more torque and fancy led screens yada yada is not the way forward.
I have a Orbea rise 2022 that has had a fortune spent on it. Fox factory 36, fox x2, rotors, bearings, renthal cockpit, 990 miles on the clock, brand new cryptotal tyres, fresh sealant and valves. I have it up for sale for 2k and I can’t even give it away for that. Not one person has messaged. It blows my mind that it won’t sell.
If I was going to buy a second e-bike I would definitely look at buying new. The current market is such that a new bike may already be reduced enough to be a fair comparison to a used e-bike.
DJI seems to be all the rage these days. Is more power/torque actually more? or just a novelty? How do you determine how much is ideal? Rider weight? terrain?
Kinderney hubs tend to leak at least the ones here in the states. There nothing new been out for 3-4 years now. WW offered them up on their bikes and had a ton of issues and only being able to service them across the pond was a big negative. My buddy blew up his Rohloff hub on his e-bike and now has a (3x3 nine) hub which is of course 9 spd instead of the 14 in the Rohloff. So far so good. The Rohloff isn’t really practice for an e-bike with 1/2 the gears never getting used. When you do use them you look like a clown spinning and going about 2 mph.
Well as long as the motor fits in my bike I'm sold...no mention of fitment at all,design it so that it will fit in popular big brand standards,Shimano bosch etc,I'm not buying a new bike...why would I?
it‘d be good to see if you could use your journalistic skills to investigate what did actually happen to those companies and provide your viewers with an update, instead of just reminding us what you saw in the past. oh and speaking of snarky, whats with the snarky jabs directed at neil?
Great to see innovation, however I have a 2023 Trek Rail 625 wh battery, why can I not get a 750 or 800 that fits in the same space? Bosch gen 4 motor. Any suggestions appreciated. Bikes just seem destined for landfill these days. Keep the news coming, much appreciated.
Motor gearboxes do not need to be on any kind of racing team to be successful. Name a single professional racing team that uses internal hub gears. Can't think of one? Me neither. Now look around at commuter bicycles - how many of those have hub gears? Damn near all of them. They're ubiquitous, because they are low maintenance and have high reliability, even on commuter ebikes. What motor gearbox makers need to do is push them for ease of maintenance and reliability. If you're already making a bike with a motor in the crank, there's no real difference between choosing one with gears at the wheel and gears in the motor - the actual difference is in how it's sold to the consumer.
is the forthcoming big news from Italy a new Turbo Levo by any chance? I'm sure these guys must know when it's going to be released? Steve's probably already ridden it, and what was up with him today very strange chemistry between them.
Steve, I have no difficulty understanding many English presenters, however, in your case I can understand about 1/3 of what you’re saying could you work on that a little bit please?
The six axis imu is getting closer. With the introduction of abs, electronic suspension. All of the tech that comes with modern motorcycles, could trickle down to Ebikes. Lean sensitivity abs,slip control, suspension that works thousands times a second. Perhaps not in my life time but it will come Keep up good work
@@johndonnelly9832 EMTB's are heavier so they're more planted, in the right hands they're mega fast downhill, for those who like speed they're a good choice, but they aren't as nimble or as easy to handle, they require more strength to get the most from them, Ironic really, as most naysayers don't get it at all. EMTB's are Faster Up and Down.
A canyon neuron for that money will have no where near as good components and suspension as that marin and its 1500 pounds more. The Marin was a very decent spec. Performance elite etc.
Steve has reservations about reliability being so is flaky. He is right, E Motor Units are poorly designed , let water in, don't have breathers and fail regularly. No sensible design engineer would ever specify unsuitable seals and stuff the electronics in with gears. In industry motors, reduction gears, and electronics are compartmentalised. If you are thinking about upgrading to a Compound MGU soon be sure to get a 5 year free service and guarantee account. (Inclusive of a similar standby courtesy bike).
Unlike the current rise of right wing politics we're seeing in the world, I'm happy to be living in a time when gearboxes appear to be slowly taking over. They are clearly the better tech for a lot of cycling disciplines (heck, maybe they're the solution to this whole "road racing is getting too fast talk we're hearing 😂) but we're so invested in derailleurs that it's hard to get away from them. I think we need a combined gearbox/e-bike motor/MGU mounting standard to get us there. At the very least we need a gearbox mounting standard.
Their relationship goes back quite far, Steve even first interviewed Neil for Dirt Magazine back when he was 21 and they were team mates back in the day. Here's a funny clip of them both 👉th-cam.com/video/jeFqw1IB5E0/w-d-xo.html 🤣
Reg. second hand bikes vs new bikes. We have no warranty in Russia, there is no point in buying new, if it breakes, I need to pay for a new motor anyways.
The problem with ebike gearboxes is the motor spins out as it can't stay in the optimal RPM. Like Pinion has the most power on the lowest gears and less on the higher gears. Where as with a derailleur you can always keep the motor in the optimal power band. This is never really brought up. Not a problem for normal bikes but ebike specific.
...but that is what the gearbox is for? To keep the motor in a good rpm range by changing gearing ratios? Same as with a derailleur? And if you look at the power vs. cadence curve at velomotion (they do in dept testing of different motor curves) you see that this is not true. MGU power rises with cadence, while most other motor systems plateau.
@@mr_harm9266 I don't know about those tests, all I know is that the MGU from Pinion works great for me. You can adjust a lot of settings if needed, but for me the way it came configured is fanatastic. Never go back to chains, cassetes and derailers. I'm sold.
@mr_harm9266 No. It doesn't work at all like a derailleur. For a derailleur your feet are always at the same rpm to the motor. The motor is always in the optimal rpm. That is not how gearbox works. You have to choose what gear is the optimal for the motor power band. You don't have infinite gearing ratios like you would in a car so the motor can't stay in the optimal power band. So as the motor is on the wrong rpm it doesn't produce the same power.
I can't believe that the community especially over in Europe has embraced the hub the mid motor over the far superior hub which has almost 0 maintenance issues and predictable power torque curve not depending on what gear you're in
@ having owned multiples of both I believe that the mid motor having greater torque is nothing more than a mythology in fact the motors are weaker you get some to work multiplication through the gears if you're lucky enough to hit the power band just right you get the sensation of to work but you don't get as much torque as you get with a well built well powered hub motor. The hub motor torque is predictable and reliable just like the electric car example. Unlike an electric car you have to have the gear right on the money to get the sensation of to work on mid motor and if you're not in the right gear it feels anemic
I'm gonna get spammed to death and laughed at but as someone who's been riding mountain bikes for at least 40 years and E bikes for over 10 years who's owned multiple hub and mid motorbikes I gotta say that the mountain bike community fascination especially in Europe with mid motors is bizarre. You won't stop making videos about the necessity for more power and more reliability yet you are married to the idea of the center motor which is inferior in both of these respects as well as most others. Give me a cheap bafang hub motor and a big battery any day over my Bosch or other mid motors they are way more reliable and have a much more predictable power cars is properly powered they will do wheelies and go straight up Mount Everest. I absolutely hate every single mid motorbike I've ever owned or road. Motors all the way!
@ for a true mountain bike and a mountain bike rider I could understand this perspective. I don't send it in say through the air so I just don't need that weight distribution to be perfect I could tear the trails up pretty good with my hub motorbike however.
Take your hat off to pinion? Are you joking. It changes like a bag of spanners. Automatic shifting is abysmal. The valeo is like a Rolls-Royce by comparison. Valeo nailed pinion is winging it
Hi , I weigh 297lb and I'm looking for an enduro emtb . I can't find a bike that says that weight + the bike + clothes etc , is ok for their bike . Do you know if this is the case or do you know of a suitable enduro emtb for that weight please ??
Ironically I've owned 6 e bikes in over 10 years. Hands-down the most reliable motor I've ever had was the bafang hub motor from China I absolutely love it it will not die it has a wide power band I can do wheelies I can go straight up Mount Everest. I've sold my Bosch and all my other bikes mid motor is crap it's time to realize you've been sold a bunch of snake oil and you've built a cult around it
Most the components in Bosch are Chinese aswell. Actually, nearly everything made has something Chinese in it! The whole idea of "everything from China is trash" is just dumb. Yes they flood the market with knock off rubbish, but they also have a lot of professional and high quality products too. Qnd like said, nearly all companies get something, if not the whole damn thing manufactured there.
@@tim8061 Oh yes, I like to have much speeds because I can ride in my preferred cadence. Its not like a motorbike where you just sit on. With less speeds you have much larger cadence differences.
Buy new if you can afford it I say. Just been made redundant (from specialized) and with final pay packet bought myself entry level levo, supposed RRP of £4.5k at the time and got it for £1475. At that price was too good to pass up.
Interesting video! I want to know how and where someone can write you, and/or send bike and riding pictures? I would love to show you riding pictures from “the white trail” In Denmark 😅🚲⛰️
What do you think about motor-gearbox tech? 🤔 Let the chat know👇
Ill buy an e-bike only with gearbox, chain and cassettes lack durability even without motor
Standardised ebike motor mounts ,so can choose different motors.
Like here if you want a repairable gearbox drive unit.
@@embn it’s really exciting so I’ll be looking forward to the review .
Cool Stuff! The battery intra Drive uses are UR10 of BMZ !!! The housing gave it away!
8 speed is fine for an e-bike so long as it's wide range (480% is adequate). Put belt drive on it and I'm sold
Nah, that cannot work smoothly.
If they make a 5-6 compact gearbox for DH (without the motor of course) they would be already ahead of pinion.
Anyway, ebikes with gearbox + motor units are going to be huge. Good to see another competitor.
Shimano and Sram better be watching
they got one with a Belt drive on their website
Well done to the guys who brought out the GD8, I hope the manufacturer of bikes chose their motor. We are on the cusp of a new wave of mountain bike ebike gearboxes.
Thanks!
it will be interesting to see how this tech progresses in the industry!
thanks for featuring and liking my bike :)
thanks for getting involved in the show Marion! 👍
I really hope the intradrive system is successful.
I’ve been following the development and it looks like a great system.
Looking forward to seeing it on the show 😊
I’m getting an infomercial vibe guys, I know you have to pay the bills but Steve could probably scale back the slobbering on the sponsors
I didn’t get that vibe at all. He talked about all the gearbox companies that have gone bust and he talked about noise from the preproduction model. This is challenging tech go get right and in budget .
Yes, Steve. It was also very rude the way you talked over the top of Neil to get your plug in about the Canyon On.
Hey David, thanyou for the feedback. Just to confirm that this video was not sponsored. The concept of a motor-gearbox system is one that gets people excited, and this might have been aplified by the belt-drive discussion in elite level downhill racing at the moment.
Yes, more of these motor/gearbox combo!! yes! nice thing that it's using a chain also!
In the future would you still prefer a chain over a belt drive or drive shaft?
I'v just bought my first EMB New got a Specialized levo turbo comp carbon was out on it at the weekend LOVE IT !!!😍
I hope the gearboxes in the future have at least 12 gears
If I’m not mistaken the intradrive uses the ep8 motor bolt pattern, worth mentioning. Cheers boys
What? Seriously? Wow….!
So, @bostondye3736, do you reckon Neil could fix that problem with the Marin's e-motor by replacing it with an Intradrive G8 motor?
@ idk what batteries are compatible. But yes it looks that way.
@@bruce.KAY-bike-drifter Yeah, I think that's right. Interesting point
Thanks for the interest in my anti Flickerty Sticks. (NOT SKITS Neil).
Big problem in Australia with rigid eucalypt sticks destroying hundreds of derailleurs.
Cheers Rob Haskins E=mtb² but is the Amflow E =mtb³
Hey Rob...is there anymore info about your Amflow/Rohloff conversion on line? 👍
@@robhaskins3068 Thanks for info Rob! Defo a possible way for me to go. I may pay £££ and get a Nicolai with Pinion...or wait for an Avinox/Pinion to be released 👍
Of course, my mistake, apologies.😄 Cheers, Neil
@embn Hello Neil 👋. I'm a bit Lexdisic too. I often end up with a Batt Flattery.
Glad you liked the Rohloff hub idea with the protected forward mounted tensioner. It all works very well and gives me peace of mind charging through sticks. My next project is to centre mount a manual change Rohloff above the DJI Avinox motor. Short chain drive to it. Then pivot the swing arm directly from the frame mounted Rohloff axle with a belt or chain to a very light rear wheel. No need for a tensioner .It's a high pivot MGU that's near silent with a proven Rohloff( mid mounted )and most important it's quiet and powerful .
Cheers Rob. E=mtb²
Apparently, the primary problem of motor reliability is water ingress. Surely adequate sealing takes precedence over increased motor drag produced by adequate sealing. Why build motors which let the water in just because they want efficiency? That's a load of crap, plainly. More motor power fixes the poor sealing problem. Why the rip-off with unreliable motors? It's deliberate, it's obvious.
@@Adam-r8z6g I read an interesting deep.dive on this and the long and short seemed to suggest that a lot of "moisture" issues are often condensation. Cold metal housing, motor generates heat, then you get condensation on the inside.
I had my 2017 Brose motor re-conditioned by PureSports in south Queensland. The major thing Paul from PureSports talked about was seals and improvements to keep water out. Nearly 2 years later my motor is still running strong and I am riding more often than ever. (Oh, by the way. At the same time as reconditioning my motor Paul installed a Rohloff Speedhub on the rear for me. It has now covered over 2.5 thousand kilometres and has just had its 2nd oil change. The gearbox has performed faultlessly.)
this is an interesting topic and one that all of the big brands make efforts in reducing any water ingress. Here are a couple of deep dives to help share a little more on the subject:
We went to visit Bafang last year, here is their testing facility 👉 th-cam.com/video/1SqDrwiytzQ/w-d-xo.html
Steve has also made a whole video looking into this 👉th-cam.com/video/B0m1etWVL2c/w-d-xo.html
Steve was on one today, wasn't he!?! 😅
all day in the office too!
I’ve been running the GX T type for more than 2000km now with out a hitch,it was set and forget, I changed to wax and have no chain wear so far.
So until gearbox drive becomes cheaper and lighter I will stick with the mech, loving Neil on the show
We should be concerned about the narrowing gap between e-MTBs and motorcycles. The uninformed general public and politicians may view all e-MTBs as motorized vehicles, potentially leading to more trail closures, restrictions, and negative bias.
Throttle-controlled applications, as opposed to pedal-assist systems, pose a particular challenge. It may become increasingly difficult to argue the differences between various types of electric two-wheelers. Electric motorcycles already exist without multi-speed integrated transmissions.
The integration of motors and gearboxes in e-MTBs, similar to motorcycles, offers numerous technical benefits. However, this development may signal a significant shift in how we define bicycles. Even the adoption of mid-drive e-MTBs has led to access restrictions in some regions based on the general design of these machines.
While e-MTBs offer exciting possibilities, we must carefully consider their impact on trail access and work towards clear regulations that distinguish between different types of electric two-wheelers.
Yawn
I thoroughly agree. Those of us who were early adopters of eMTBs will remember the resistance we experienced from other MTB riders and trail builders. They were scared that the torque from our rear wheels would chop up their trails. Once pedal assist was more accepted we gradually began sharing trails together. But with eMTB motors becoming more powerful with motors like the DJI, we must be conscious of the risk of our eMTBs being regarded as pseudo-motorbikes. Additionally, the motorbike industry is beginning to adopt electric motors. The blur between an eMTB and an e-MXmotorbike is a worry. We do not want to be banned from our beloved MTB trails.
@@fundidoarrojo269
Go to the back of classroom or hallway.
@@fundidoarrojo269Stay at the back of the classroom or sit in the hallway.
the laws and guidelines vary around the world. It is up to the rider/user to comply with their local laws, guidelines and common sense. Outside of legal frameworks it's important that collectivly we the e bike community share ebikes in a positive light
The Avinox motor is not just about the "raw power", it's also about the software and intergration it has, the battery tech it has. Thats what makes DJI such a dominate force in the drone, action camera, gimbal, mics..etc.. etc.. market. They make good quality products with great support.
You are correct mate 👍
MGU + 110nm = Game Over!
I felt quite uncomfortable watching this and stopped watching after about 10 minutes.
First time I have ever felt like that, as a long term viewer and subscriber.
I got the distinct impression that Steve is resentful / hostile towards Neil. He was constantly making “ fun” of Neil’s comments, making disparaging remarks and seemingly trying to belittle Neil’s contributions.
Neil remained calm and good humoured throughout and I know he does not need anyone to “ stick up for him” He’s more than capable of doing that for himself.
Nevertheless, I found it quite unpleasant to watch / listen to and wonder if Steve perhaps feels a bit threatened by Neil’s recent arrival as a full time EMBN presenter.
I could be completely wrong, of course…. maybe it was just an ill judged attempt by Steve to be humorous.
He did the same with Adam, then he left, not surprisingly
I missed that at the time. Pity, as Adam was a good presenter with a bit of a different “take” on things.
I heard the Fox Live Valve Neo shock is amazing on big travel ebikes. Mayyyyyybe even a ''gamechanger'' 😁
with top end new emb costing 4k + ... its worth looking at second hand bikes from a store with a motor and battery warranty. Decathlon have good deals. i got a Flyer enroc for 2k
Steve has definitely had a few bevvies today
Think he is only happy when he is away filming in Italy
I just hope companies like this start offering aftermarket kits. Once my ep8 dies (again) no way do I want to give Shimano any money for another....
MGU are perfect for e-bikes since the drawback for a pedal bike is their inefficiency.
I can't wait to end my hate-tolerate relationship with derailleurs and replace them with a MGU.
Advantages, as I see it, are well placed weight, lighter rear wheel, and no more derailleur failures.
Find out for us wtf Zerode is up to with theirs, will you?
It was a man from the East coast of Scotlamd who first invented the pneumatic tyre too, back in 1845 or so. 👍🏻
Gearbox with Belt drive……. This the way
Derailleurs and chains aren’t reliable either, look at the issue people have all the time. How can motorcycle manufacturers build a weather proof motor and gearbox, yet e-bike motors continue to have issues with water ingress?
Weight constraints, among other things.
@windinthewillows6248 my motorcycles vented to outside air, head and trans. The oil is splashed everywhere inside so everything is protected for awhile. Any condensation is boiled out while running. They don't have circuit boards either
i've had over ten bikes with deraileurs ,some medium quality some better over the last thirty years and not one of them ever failed or had any issues .
No they are very reliable
Think Steve might of had a few before this , on one!
Enjoying my Nicolai S16 MGU
Did you see Steve's video we made a few months back👉 th-cam.com/video/2AhVYJMhZoA/w-d-xo.html
@@embn link does not work
Baller
They’re called Pogies and they keep your hands warm against the Winter wind chill. ☃️
When buying a used bike from a mature rider...Don;t ask for a history lesion...lol
Love the content!!!
When is Steve leaving it really looks like Neil and Steve are not a team at all. I'm just watching the body language.😮
At first read I thought you were paying a little too close attention to this super-niche video… but upon further viewing, you’re right. Guy on viewer’s left is openly hostile towards the other presenter. Hey, lay off with the digs.
I was thinking the same thing, Steve has forced more co-presenters out with his surly, argumentative attitude, I think Neil is a refreshing change to the channel, liked him on gmbn, think he will make this channel watchable again.
Hopefully the industry and consumers get behind this motor- especially as it’s designed to be repairable too . Gushing over more and more torque and fancy led screens yada yada is not the way forward.
I have a Orbea rise 2022 that has had a fortune spent on it. Fox factory 36, fox x2, rotors, bearings, renthal cockpit, 990 miles on the clock, brand new cryptotal tyres, fresh sealant and valves. I have it up for sale for 2k and I can’t even give it away for that. Not one person has messaged. It blows my mind that it won’t sell.
Brand new. Bought my Xduro 10 in 2021. Would buy new again, a Kelly's inspires next.
If I was going to buy a second e-bike I would definitely look at buying new. The current market is such that a new bike may already be reduced enough to be a fair comparison to a used e-bike.
DJI seems to be all the rage these days. Is more power/torque actually more? or just a novelty? How do you determine how much is ideal? Rider weight? terrain?
WOW COOL
Love the history lessons 🤣
Kinderney hubs tend to leak at least the ones here in the states. There nothing new been out for 3-4 years now. WW offered them up on their bikes and had a ton of issues and only being able to service them across the pond was a big negative.
My buddy blew up his Rohloff hub on his e-bike and now has a (3x3 nine) hub which is of course 9 spd instead of the 14 in the Rohloff. So far so good.
The Rohloff isn’t really practice for an e-bike with 1/2 the gears never getting used. When you do use them you look like a clown spinning and going about 2 mph.
Well as long as the motor fits in my bike I'm sold...no mention of fitment at all,design it so that it will fit in popular big brand standards,Shimano bosch etc,I'm not buying a new bike...why would I?
Steve more info on the trail watts extenders fitting amflow please. Link please
it‘d be good to see if you could use your journalistic skills to investigate what did actually happen to those companies and provide your viewers with an update, instead of just reminding us what you saw in the past.
oh and speaking of snarky, whats with the snarky jabs directed at neil?
Gearbox never breaks out. As said, Pinion’s been on the scene for 25+ years. Not sure how they keep the doors open.
Don, I hope you are "flickety skits " soon!
will you be flickety skitting this weekend?
Great to see innovation, however I have a 2023 Trek Rail 625 wh battery, why can I not get a 750 or 800 that fits in the same space? Bosch gen 4 motor. Any suggestions appreciated. Bikes just seem destined for landfill these days. Keep the news coming, much appreciated.
Currently looking for a new bike kinda swaying towards new due to warranty. Struggling to find one I like the frame style
How well does the overrun of the DJI motor integrate with the Rohloff? On analog bikes you just stop pedaling for a split second.
I’d love second hand but can get new orbea wild prior year brand new for what used is asking…
Honestly it’s just getting to much I’ve had enough
when are EMBN going to real world test the intra?
Motor gearboxes do not need to be on any kind of racing team to be successful. Name a single professional racing team that uses internal hub gears. Can't think of one? Me neither. Now look around at commuter bicycles - how many of those have hub gears? Damn near all of them. They're ubiquitous, because they are low maintenance and have high reliability, even on commuter ebikes.
What motor gearbox makers need to do is push them for ease of maintenance and reliability. If you're already making a bike with a motor in the crank, there's no real difference between choosing one with gears at the wheel and gears in the motor - the actual difference is in how it's sold to the consumer.
If you look around, the Yamaha Moro 07 is being sold by Yamaha dealers for 2819 euro
wow gooooooooooooooooooood news
8 speed is more good then 12 speed befor i my opinion
less weight
is the forthcoming big news from Italy a new Turbo Levo by any chance? I'm sure these guys must know when it's going to be released? Steve's probably already ridden it, and what was up with him today very strange chemistry between them.
Steve, I have no difficulty understanding many English presenters, however, in your case I can understand about 1/3 of what you’re saying could you work on that a little bit please?
Steve Jones makes me laugh - especially when he ribs Neil
I Look for the the most selled e-bikes and wait the appearing on a landfill;)
The six axis imu is getting closer. With the introduction of abs, electronic suspension.
All of the tech that comes with modern motorcycles, could trickle down to Ebikes.
Lean sensitivity abs,slip control, suspension that works thousands times a second.
Perhaps not in my life time but it will come
Keep up good work
Yamaha been doing Mgu for agea in dirtbike 😅
Flogging a dead horse? Hows them seals doing?
Can I ask why would you want a ebike for down hills ?
more laps ..
more fun .
@
I understand to help you up hills as I have two titanium knee caps but how does a ebike help down hill
@@johndonnelly9832 EMTB's are heavier so they're more planted, in the right hands they're mega fast downhill, for those who like speed they're a good choice, but they aren't as nimble or as easy to handle, they require more strength to get the most from them, Ironic really, as most naysayers don't get it at all. EMTB's are Faster Up and Down.
@johndonnelly9832 so you ride your ebike uphill and take the motor and battery off before riding it down?
A canyon neuron for that money will have no where near as good components and suspension as that marin and its 1500 pounds more. The Marin was a very decent spec. Performance elite etc.
Zerode just do it
Steve has reservations about reliability being so is flaky. He is right, E Motor Units are poorly designed , let water in, don't have breathers and fail regularly. No sensible design engineer would ever specify unsuitable seals and stuff the electronics in with gears. In industry motors, reduction gears, and electronics are compartmentalised. If you are thinking about upgrading to a Compound MGU soon be sure to get a 5 year free service and guarantee account. (Inclusive of a similar standby courtesy bike).
Unlike the current rise of right wing politics we're seeing in the world, I'm happy to be living in a time when gearboxes appear to be slowly taking over. They are clearly the better tech for a lot of cycling disciplines (heck, maybe they're the solution to this whole "road racing is getting too fast talk we're hearing 😂) but we're so invested in derailleurs that it's hard to get away from them.
I think we need a combined gearbox/e-bike motor/MGU mounting standard to get us there.
At the very least we need a gearbox mounting standard.
sorry, how many watts is this again ?
when new LEVO?!
Someone is experimenting with a BB lockout device for DH racing.
LOL The Don calling him a Big, Fat, Bike fan and getting away with it.
Their relationship goes back quite far, Steve even first interviewed Neil for Dirt Magazine back when he was 21 and they were team mates back in the day.
Here's a funny clip of them both 👉th-cam.com/video/jeFqw1IB5E0/w-d-xo.html 🤣
Reg. second hand bikes vs new bikes. We have no warranty in Russia, there is no point in buying new, if it breakes, I need to pay for a new motor anyways.
Why are you still living in that Third World country
Its not a hard concept to make, over 10 years ago! Why dont we have this yet. Obviously its financial.
Rachael Atherton will take the purse
The problem with ebike gearboxes is the motor spins out as it can't stay in the optimal RPM. Like Pinion has the most power on the lowest gears and less on the higher gears. Where as with a derailleur you can always keep the motor in the optimal power band. This is never really brought up. Not a problem for normal bikes but ebike specific.
I don't mind less power on the higher gears in the Pinion MGU as I use them going downhill and gravity takes care of it 🙂
...but that is what the gearbox is for? To keep the motor in a good rpm range by changing gearing ratios? Same as with a derailleur?
And if you look at the power vs. cadence curve at velomotion (they do in dept testing of different motor curves) you see that this is not true. MGU power rises with cadence, while most other motor systems plateau.
@@mr_harm9266 I don't know about those tests, all I know is that the MGU from Pinion works great for me. You can adjust a lot of settings if needed, but for me the way it came configured is fanatastic. Never go back to chains, cassetes and derailers. I'm sold.
@mr_harm9266 No. It doesn't work at all like a derailleur. For a derailleur your feet are always at the same rpm to the motor. The motor is always in the optimal rpm. That is not how gearbox works. You have to choose what gear is the optimal for the motor power band. You don't have infinite gearing ratios like you would in a car so the motor can't stay in the optimal power band. So as the motor is on the wrong rpm it doesn't produce the same power.
@@emonty62 But you don't pedal on higher gears. For anyone that wants assistance at speed there will be less of it than with a derailleur.
in 2 years there wont be any ebike with 100 year old derailleurs
I can't believe that the community especially over in Europe has embraced the hub the mid motor over the far superior hub which has almost 0 maintenance issues and predictable power torque curve not depending on what gear you're in
@@captamerica3693unsprung weight and lower CoG is more important on an eMTB.
@captamerica3693 That midmotor power torque curve is EXACTLY what makes it feel like a bike and not an electric car
@ having owned multiples of both I believe that the mid motor having greater torque is nothing more than a mythology in fact the motors are weaker you get some to work multiplication through the gears if you're lucky enough to hit the power band just right you get the sensation of to work but you don't get as much torque as you get with a well built well powered hub motor. The hub motor torque is predictable and reliable just like the electric car example. Unlike an electric car you have to have the gear right on the money to get the sensation of to work on mid motor and if you're not in the right gear it feels anemic
Dji mgu
I'm gonna get spammed to death and laughed at but as someone who's been riding mountain bikes for at least 40 years and E bikes for over 10 years who's owned multiple hub and mid motorbikes I gotta say that the mountain bike community fascination especially in Europe with mid motors is bizarre. You won't stop making videos about the necessity for more power and more reliability yet you are married to the idea of the center motor which is inferior in both of these respects as well as most others. Give me a cheap bafang hub motor and a big battery any day over my Bosch or other mid motors they are way more reliable and have a much more predictable power cars is properly powered they will do wheelies and go straight up Mount Everest. I absolutely hate every single mid motorbike I've ever owned or road. Motors all the way!
Hub motors flat out ruin mountain bikes, the weights totally in the wrong place 😂
@ for a true mountain bike and a mountain bike rider I could understand this perspective. I don't send it in say through the air so I just don't need that weight distribution to be perfect I could tear the trails up pretty good with my hub motorbike however.
Take your hat off to pinion? Are you joking. It changes like a bag of spanners. Automatic shifting is abysmal. The valeo is like a Rolls-Royce by comparison. Valeo nailed pinion is winging it
Hey Steve Leave Niel Alone,Its Not All Your Show So Leave it Out.
"lose your rag" ?
Hi , I weigh 297lb and I'm looking for an enduro emtb . I can't find a bike that says that weight + the bike + clothes etc , is ok for their bike . Do you know if this is the case or do you know of a suitable enduro emtb for that weight please ??
Giant emtb, weight limit of 153kg (337lb) e-trance and e-reign models I think
Any re gen units. Future?
Don't let china make the gearbox!
Ironically I've owned 6 e bikes in over 10 years. Hands-down the most reliable motor I've ever had was the bafang hub motor from China I absolutely love it it will not die it has a wide power band I can do wheelies I can go straight up Mount Everest. I've sold my Bosch and all my other bikes mid motor is crap it's time to realize you've been sold a bunch of snake oil and you've built a cult around it
Most the components in Bosch are Chinese aswell. Actually, nearly everything made has something Chinese in it! The whole idea of "everything from China is trash" is just dumb. Yes they flood the market with knock off rubbish, but they also have a lot of professional and high quality products too. Qnd like said, nearly all companies get something, if not the whole damn thing manufactured there.
Pinion has got this beat with 12 speeds....why even consider 8?
You don't need 12 on an ebike - how many gears do motorbikes have?
@@tim8061 Oh yes, I like to have much speeds because I can ride in my preferred cadence. Its not like a motorbike where you just sit on. With less speeds you have much larger cadence differences.
Buy new if you can afford it I say. Just been made redundant (from specialized) and with final pay packet bought myself entry level levo, supposed RRP of £4.5k at the time and got it for £1475. At that price was too good to pass up.
Interesting video!
I want to know how and where someone can write you, and/or send bike and riding pictures?
I would love to show you riding pictures from “the white trail” In Denmark 😅🚲⛰️