Nah we need a Generations 2 with levels from Sonic CD, Sonic Rush, Rush Adventure, Secret Rings, Black Knight, Lostworld, Sonic Mania, and Sonic Forces
Ok I agree that he shouldn't have been in forces but he has done much better than modern sonic, also it seems like that there are kids playing sonic mania and probably the mobile ports of classic sonic if there are going to be kids growing up to classic sonic now Sega is going to bring him back in 10 or 15 years to bank on that classic nostalgia and then it repeats
@@34r343 kids should be playing modern sonic not classic sonic if I am being honest. The 2D play style is great but it needs to go, I mean when was the last time you saw a 2D Mario game? Nintendo doesn’t need to use nostalgia to keep them alive whereas Sega does it to pander to old time fans. Classic Sonics era is finished and we need to focus on the 3D gameplay of Modern Sonic so it can become good again maybe mix adventure with it. It’s kinda sad that the classic version is doing better than the version we are supposed to have today, hopefully Sega stops using him but it’s very unlikely….
@@mylem6234 you are simply wrong. 2d is 10 times better and it shows both in the number of players and sells for mania. Absolutely everyone enjoys 2d more than 3d and you will find nobody having a 3d sonic game as their favourite. Sonic mania is the living proof of you being wrong
I swear Classic looks so lame next to Modern in Generations. Where's that cocky, heart of gold, shonen teenage hero who won't hesitate to help someone by getting it done right, and getting done fast? All he is now is some chibi, cute marketable plushy that doesn't represent the true spirit of Sonic's character, or the series as a whole...
@@zemox2534 And probably the same people who say things like "Nobody plays Sonic games for the story or characters, just the gameplay!" And because of these numbnuts Sega are thinking to themselves "Really? Great! We don't have to work as hard on characterisation! Just have characters running around going HERPY DERP, AREN'T WE SILLY, KIDS?"
I don’t mind him in Generations since he was made to show how far the series had come, Hell they intended to have an ‘Adventure Sonic’ who was all 3D as a counter although he was cut (because this timeline is evil), but in Forces he was completely forced. Also again, Tails in Forces going crazy after Sonic supposedly died should have been him going berserk and getting in the mech again. Like remember last time he saw Sonic “die” in front of him (where as far as he was concerned it was his fault he was killed) he fought and defeated Eggman even if he couldn’t stop the canon.
Gotta say, Yeah, Classic HAS outstayed his welcome in "Modern Sonic" games. As you pointed out, His Role in Games like Sonic Forces, takes a Slot better suited for characters like Tails and Cream. Hell, this could have been a good chance to try sneaking in SatAM Characters like Sally Acorn, Bunnie Rabbot, Antoine D'Coollette, Rotor... They're after all, _Still_ property of SEGA Sonic Team, and CAN Be Implimented into the games... And maybe even play around with Slower Gameplay styles, similar to Knuckle's "Powerglide" style, where he's unable to Speed along, but has strength and the ability to glide. Frankly, the "Rookie" Character should have had more options for Combat, rather than somehow having Sonic's Speed abilities.
Unfortunately, Sonic Team is currently going in the opposite direction on many of the points you made: "a Slot better suited for characters like Tails and Cream" Sega listened to the critics who were saying "Sonic has too many stupid friends", which is why lately all the focus has been on just Sonic. "this could have been a good chance to try sneaking in SatAM Characters" It is believed that Sega of Japan doesn't want to acknowledge the characters made for western Sonic media. It's more of an hypothesis than something we know with more certainty like the mandates, but still, don't hold your hopes up for that. "And maybe even play around with Slower Gameplay styles" Don't you know that every non-Sonic gameplay style sucks? Or so say the critics Sega likes to listen to who never learned how to play the games properly.
@@inendlesspain4724 Unfortunately true for the part about "Critics" who said that Sonic has "Too many Stupid Friends", nevermind the fact that there's only so much you can do when having a "Free and Wisecracking" blue hedgehog as the main focus... And that's if you keep allowing the Hedgehog to be the one most focused on, the Flaws and limits become more prevalant, and people start getting tired. It's like eating nothing but Hamburgers for breakfast, lunch and dinner without any changes to the burger for weeks. You'll start getting bored and want to eat something else. It's the same with constantly focusing mainly on Sonic. People start losing interest. Yes, Having too many characters turning up all at once is a bit much, but that doesn't mean there should be less playable options. However, those same critics who also bash on "Non-Sonic Fighting styles", _clearly_ never had to play as Knuckles or Tails in their Playable Classic games. (Tails is Slightly slower than Sonic, faster than Knuckles, and can hover for a short while, but tires quickly, while Knuckles is Slower than Both Sonic and Tails, but is a Heavy hitter, can Climb surfaces and Glide controllably.) Their Fighting Styles are radically Different to Sonic's, but they are anything BUT Sucky. They're fun, a Breath of Fresh air, and can allow for better replayability of the game. To keep playing as what is basically a Reskin or Recostumed Sonic with _Maybe_ a Few Bells tied to them, makes it rather dull and sucky of an experience. However, SOJ (Sega of Japan) isn't the one stopping SatAM cast members from Joining the games. That's SOA (Sega of America). They actually have more control over the Sonic Series than SOJ does, and SOA seems to want to pretend that SatAM doesn't exist. Yes, SOJ did the mandates, but shortly after, they transferred control to SOA.
The "another dimension" thing still pisses me off. It's like Sonic Team tried to copy the loophole they used for Puyo Puyo in order to unretcon the previous worlds' that were built and established for Puyo Puyo up to it's 20th anniversary, and then never realized why it actually worked in Puyo Puyo's case. Spoiler alert, it's because the continuities in Puyo Puyo were always completely different from each other in terms of it's characters and the worlds they take place in, so reviving the two old continuities through dimension hopping wasn't gonna contradict anything established in the latest continuity. Not to mention they make use of the EXTENDED cast of each dimension, instead of just one character. It's wild how the same team can do a great continuity for one series, but then fall flat on their face when making the other.
To be fair, it at least patched up the plot hole in Generations, which is the game happening even if Sonic, Tails, and Eggman had their past selves experience the events.
Funny thing is, you can see that Classic Sonic has a personality in the Sonic Mania material. And then he loses all of his personality in Sonic Forces...
I just love the fact according to Sonic Jam, Classic Sonic is one year older than Modern Sonic which is straight up hilarious. I hate Classic Sonic and I wish Sega would understand why.
Too bad all the Classic Sonic games sell circles around the new ones. To this day and digitally. The only Modern Sonic game that was popular is Sonic Forces Speed Battle. Its now called Sonic Forces and is the only version of Sonic Forces Sega promotes
"Tails should have been the third playable character". This doesnt even touch on the fact that "Forces" and the resistance going to war with Eggman was a perfect name and scenario to being back gameplay something similar to Heroes. Or at least with most of the cast being playable, since they're all in HQ as it is. Why talk about Forces when it's literally only 2.5 characters? Such a waste of potential and naming.
I still see Classic as like a prepubescent Sonic, like a preteen/younger teen Sonic, It makes sense when you see how Sonic was getting taller and his hair was getting darker and how RCS's Sonic voice sounds like he's older.
The most atrocious thing that with the retcon in Forces has done, is the fact that characters like Mighty, Ray, and The Hooligans are unable to appear in current the IDW series/or games after Forces cause someone, or some people who work at SEGA has this completely fucking stupid mentality that, if these specific characters didn’t show up in games that are are now considered a separate universe because someone at either SEGA or SonicTeam forgot to include these guys in anything after the “bit wars” because clearly there was never a Comic series that ran for nearly twenty five years that expanded on who they were, and kept them relevant until Sonic Mania plus came out....
@@BlueJack222 why do these corporate imbeciles keep making deals with others, treat them like horse droppings and then being suprised that more people want to see them beaten to death with their own designer shoes? That's ****ing cliche villain's thinking!
Finally, after ages and ages. I found someone who understands my exact thoughts about Classic Sonic. I used to be a huge Sonic fan, support Sonic in any ways and forms, I was hyped as heck for Generations. I thought it was a nice move to bring back Classic Sonic once but it should've ended there. Now he became irritating and annoying to the point I deslike the games not only because they're not that good, but also because Classic Sonic is there and I've had enough of nostalgia pandering... Seriously I've been wishing for ages to have the same feels of playability and improved from the adventure era... some say I might be adventure biased but it's nice to play a different character other than Sonic and his classic self for once, and yea modern stages should be completly 3D, the 2D sections defeat the purpose of "speed" which is why I'm also a bit agaisnt boost mechanic, but it's nice on some sections of the stage. Also Tails, wth have they done to Tails, remember the Tails from Sonic Adventure 1 and 2? He wanted to prove himself strong without Sonic, now he just cowers and calls for help? I'm not expecting anything big from SEGA or Sonic team next though, I just don't wanna play this formula for the next 20 years.
@Games we'll you're right, i got it wrong for blaming nostalgia pandering. It doesn't make sense they're just gonna sink it even more, Forces wasn't enjoyable at all, I'm not a fan of Mania even if my favourite game of Classic times was Sonic 3 and Knuckles. I don't mind them keeping a "Classic style series" on a side but should stop ruining modern or forcefully insert Classic in modern games without an explanation. The story is already a mess, no continuity whatsoever, the characters personality is different and it just doesn't feel like the franchise we grew up with, it's trying to be like something it's not. I hope Sonic Team will someday understand "not everyone loves classic Sonic like they do", some are literally full of it to the point they abandon something they really liked...
@Games naw it's straight up nostalgia pandering. I don't give a fuck about what anyone from Sonic Team says. Classic Sonic had no business being in Forces.
@@the757general2 The problem is that Sonic is too short for an HD triple A game, so Sega uses classic sonic to make the game longer. There's a reason the Werehog was used in Unleashed because without him the game would be too short for a full priced game. Sonic games weren't designed to be as long as most Mario games.
It's crazy to think that they won't allow Mighty and Ray to have modern updates and voices despite the fact that a lot of fans would love to see that, and yet Green Hill, Chemical Plant, the Death Egg and the "ALMIGHTY CLASSIC SONIC" have to be in every single game these days despite the fact that a lot of people are sick to the back teeth of them!
@@bowmaj8666 Yeah, but at least the Death Egg has an excuse with it being something that eggman always built appearing in both sonic 2 and sonic 3 & knuckles. Chemical Plant and Green hill are lazy nostalgia trips that have been overused in sonic media past generations to hook fans of the genesis games.
@@bowmaj8666 you are way wrong. Sales imply that people are more sick of Modern than Classic. The reasoning behind Sonic Forces and Team Sonic Racing's lower budget is cause of Sega's anticipation of lower sales. Sonic Mania is the 3rd highest selling Sonic the Hedgehog title behind Sonic 1 and 2. Even though it was only out for 3 years. Only Sonic Adventure 2 is popular enough to follow. Modern Sonic's fanbase are just keyboard warriors and meme people.
7:00 That bothers me so much, it's like just learning I was playing as an imposter ever since SA1, it's like finding out my real parents were replaced after an accident and somehow I just never noticed, but I digress, I won't be taking into account Sonic Team's or Iizuka's dumb last minute retcons.
@@sonicdash9652 Wish Naka could just barge into SEGA's HQ and take over, but yeah obviously they never intended to do this alternate dimension nonsense, no way in hell did they conteplated Sonic was going to be divided into 2 canons back in 1990, so Classic Sonic is younger modern Sonic, PERIOD! and they can go to hell with their dumb retcons like Sonic jumping casually from the human world (SA1 & SA2) to furry world (Forces) which doesn't make sense considering Angel Isalnd and Green Hill are in the supposedly "Human" world.
I feel if a character can be removed from the narrative without it changing anything, their only saving grace is entertainment value. Classic Sonic couldn't even achieve that.
[Merlina, now transformed as the Dark Queen, is sitting on a throne.] Dark Queen: I've been expecting you. Sonic: Just one question before we settle this. Why'd you do it? Weren't we trying to save this franchise from the underworld? Dark Queen: This franchise will fail one way or another. Such is its fate. Sonic: Huh? Dark Queen: Do you know what is to become of this franchise? Sonic: Beats me. [The Dark Queen starts to walk forward] Dark Queen: The introduction of humans and guns shall doom the franchise. Sonic is struck down by Mephiles, and is then kissed back to life by a human princess. Sonic: ... Dark Queen: This was to be our ideal world. But it will not last... Sonic the Hedgehog and his friends will end in ruin. The 3D world my grandfather Merlin created led to nothing but mistakes... But I can succeed with the power of the scabbard. Creating a 2D kingdom that never ends. [Uses a small portal to summon a Sonic The Hedgehog Mega Drive cartridge.] [A flashback of the "To the Blacksmith" scene with Merlina picking up the same Mega Drive cartridge. Sonic finally realizes what her plans are.] Sonic: What good is a world where Green Hill goes on forever!? Dark Queen: My sorrow at its ruin runs deeper than the depths of the underworld. Do you not understand? Sonic: No! And I don't want to!
sonic: merlina every franchise has its ups and downs i know that's kinda sad but that's why we gotta learn from those mistakes so we can do better in the future at least that's what i figure thats what sega needs to do they have to stop running away from their mistakes and instead learn from them so they can do better in the future
Me: *points Sonic and Merlina the truth on why this franchise is dead* Due to the lack of ambition, passion and creativity, lack of self-respect, lack of identity, fractured fanbase, less knowledgeable development team, awful writing, barebones gameplay, character flanderization since Colors/Free Riders, Deadly Six, over-reliance on nostalgia, the critics (IGN, ProJared, GameGrumps), Pontac & Graff, memes, Sonic Twitter Account, sidelining the characters in favor of trash like Classic Sonic and the Deadly Six, and Takashi Iizuka fucking up the timeline, this franchise is dead. There will be a time, when the Sonic fanbase and critics stop complaining about *SoNiC's StUpId FrIeNdS!!!* There will be a time, when the fanbase starts complaining about newer Sonic games being nothing, but filled with bland, barebones, boring, barren gameplay and awful, safe, confusing, nostalgia-pumped story, with characters being totally flanderized.
Classic Sonic is so uninteresting, he's just a cash grab Sega made to shut up nostalgia pandering critics who "criticize" every other thing Sega does that's creative or experimental. Classic Sonic ain't powerful or unique either, he's just slower nerfed version of Sonic. I wish there was never a Modern or Classic Sonic, just Sonic
Yeah, Classic is extremely heavy compared to how he played in the classics. And yeah, it is really confusing for there to be two Sonics. Just one please.
@@freyaljones7368 facts especially Sonic himself, he has so much potential to grow, become stronger and gain amazing powers but Sega don't do nothin with him
I also kind of hated how they brought back the Egg Dragoon as an early easy boss when they could have used Chaos 0 to reference the Adventure boss, whether it was Classic Sonic or Tails fighting him.
Ken Pontac & Warren Graff: Sonic's friends are cheerleaders! Kevin Munroe: Sonic's companions have a purpose. They need to help him!! They're character development should be explored with sequels!
I so agree with you. Tails or Knuckles should have been playable from the start. Personally I didn't even care for the avatar character. I felt like that was a waste... any main sonic character could of filled that void.
@@8bitwarrior037 What I mean is that I miss the old days when Sonic had a continuous continuity, and Modern and Classic Sonic were the same person instead of this. The Sonic Adventure games REFERENCED events that happened in the 2D games as canon! They were the same people! The Sonic games had a real continuity and story before Sonic Unleashed... Each game built on the last one's character growth from the last... Now it's just weird.
@@quonit37 The problem is that Sonic is too short for an HD triple A game, so Sega uses classic sonic to make the game longer. There's a reason the Werehog was used in Unleashed because without him the game would be too short for a full priced game. Sonic games weren't designed to be as long as most Mario games.
Honestly, it was just Forces that went overboard with Classic Sonic. Generations and Mania were fine. I think a larger problem is Modern Sonic losing its identity, adopting more and more Classic iconography and badniks and what have you.
Sega mishandles Classic Sonic by making him a caricature of what Sonic was. Sonic should be Sonic, no matter what the incarnation. I don't like that they basically split the universe in two with Mania and Forces.
There’s actually an explanation for that universe retcon. After Generations, Classic Eggman is aware of all of Modern Eggman’s failures and goes on to make schemes that should work, such as stealing the Phantom Ruby from Angel Island. This creates an alternate timeline where Classic Sonic experiences Mania, but never any of the games past Sonic Adventure. Modern Sonic is still the same Sonic we saw in the 90s, there’s just another one that is having his own separate adventures in another timeline or dimension
@@DumDoDoor It’s a basic law of time travel. If something changes in the past, the future will be different. Most time travel stories like Back to the Future do that to begin with.
No. Sega put a mandate on IDW comics preventing them from implying that Modern and Classic are the same person. In any mainstream continuity, Classic and Modern must be declared different entities.
@@ling8956 This has nothing to do with the comics. Modern Sonic still started his adventures with Sonic 1. Classic Sonic was deemed a separate character because he is now in a separate timeline having his own adventures that Modern can’t have, starting with Mania
Except that wasn't what they went for. Tails says "hey your that sonic from another dimension" referencing generations. Except in generations he was younger sonic. Its a retcon. I know multiverse theory is a thing but thats not at all confirmed. And if it was they are trying to BADLY cover they're asses by saying "uhhhhh yeah that's what we did"
Oh boy, this little guy... Ok, I'm just gonna be honest and say that, I wasn't really into Classic Sonic. My introduction to Sonic was in the form of modern Sonic, with my taster in Super Smash Bros Brawl but with my first Sonic game being Sonic Unleashed way back in 2008, despite we had Secret Rings first but didn't played it. Generations came around and I was like; "Ok, what's the idea of having two Sonics in this one game." In the story, I didn't really care much since I thought the story was pretty shallow and really bland. Fast forward 6 years later to Sonic Mania and Forces's teasers, I wasn't invested in Mania and was had high hopes for Forces until he was shown. By the time Forces was out and boy did Classic Sonic was not only pointless, but his "character origin" is just wrong... A different dimension Sonic but not the past Sonic because Sega doesn't care about continuity, it really drives me bananas because of that very piece of info is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG!!! At this point of time I'm just like; "Sega, please stop using Classic Sonic, especially in the 3D games. Go back to the routes of the Adventure series where we can play as the other characters." I hate to say this, but Sega. You need to do another Sonic 06, not in terms of rushing the development, but bringing back the Adventure style form you left us off with.
I wasn't even in the fanbase when the Forces trailer came back, but I remember seeing the darker tone and stuff and being like, "Yeah, that's a good move. It's been a while since they did a game with that tone." Then Classic Sonic showed up and I instantly lost all hope of this being good. His inclusion in Forces was such a poor CONCEPT that literally anybody could see that it was a bad idea. Though I suppose Forces in general is something anybody could make a better version of in their sleep.
When looking at everything Sega has done with this classic design of Sonic over the last few years, it proves to me that they no longer understand or even care about the continuity of this franchise. There's a quote from the Legacy of Kain series that I feel sums up a lot of the negative effects of what Sega has been doing with all of Classic Sonic and these ridiculous retcons. "History abhors a paradox." That's what Classic Sonic is to me now, especially when he's shoved into games he serves no purpose in. At this point, I'd almost prefer Classic Sonic to disappear and just be nothing but a memory again. His time is over and it's been over since 1998/1999.
Classic worked in Gens because the game was SUPPOSED to be about Modern meeting Classic. It didn’t work in Forces because that’s not what the game was about, he was just sorta crammed in there. What’s worse though was that Classic’s role in the story was already occupied by someone else - Silver. Silver came from a future where Eggman had won the war to lend the heroes a helping hand, then here comes Classic saying “No, I’LL be the one to lend a hand and turn this thing around!” In fact when you think about it, it doesn’t even make sense because surely that must have already happened in the timeline that led to Silver’s future, right? Surely the ONLY factor that could possibly change the outcome of the war was Silver. But nope, he just gets shafted to minor background character who does nothing of note and we’re given Classic for literally no reason at all. Generations was a game all about celebrating Sonic’s entire history, so yes, it was appropriate for Classic to share the spotlight with Modern. Forces was SUPPOSED to simply be the next mainline game and the focus was SUPPOSED to be on the war between the Mobians and Eggman. We already had plenty of characters to focus on, Classic had no place. In my eyes, Sonic, Avatar and Silver should’ve been the three playstyles, with short DLCs similar to Episode: Shadow focussed on other characters during the conflict. Like there could be an episode where you play as Tails during the time Sonic’s imprisoned and after he breaks out, with a boss fight where he ACTUALLY FIGHTS Chaos 0, before being overwhelmed and needing to be rescued. And then there could be episodes for Knuckles, Vector, Amy, etc., allowing for a wide range of playable characters and an expansive story whilst keeping the main game itself focussed on the 3 main styles.
And yes, given SEGA and Iizuka are really blind to their own fans and prefer to listen to detractors like Arin Hanson/Egoraptor (and they even INVITE THEM OVER FANS!!) and memers, yes, Classic Sonic will be back in the next game. They have stopped caring.
Yes. To the point that I might as well stick to the sonic movie and the Idw comics because at least that was a 1,000 times better than whatever pandering bullshit sega comes up with and at least they're well written.
@@Borger3941 I'm also sticking to Dreamcast Era and even the Dark Age (2005-2010), and maybe Colors and Generations if it wasn't for piss-poor writing.
@The Sega General Returns Sonic Mania outsold all 2002-2017;Sonic games in 30 days. Lets recap www.segasammy.co.jp/english/ir/library/pdf/settlement/2018/20171102_2q_youshi_e.pdf Sega's 6 month financial report was due on September 30th 2017. Sonic Mania released August 2017. By the September 30th report date, Sonic Mania already outsold all Sonic titles in the last 15 years. 2002-2017
@@moniques6204 Sonic Forces sold more copies on the switch than Mario odyssey in the first week of sales... This may not seem like a big deal, but compared to what they say about it, it is much more interesting...
If they really need to bring Classic back, why not just make him a skin for Sonic instead of his own character? Just a neat little bonus for older fans, but not forced on the player.
after Generations, we should've gotten Classic Sonic in Mania and future games only taking place after S3&K while Modern Sonic just focuses on modern games that involves on creativity and innovation
I watched the original vid and I actually thought some of the glitchy stuff was my laptop being weird lol. colors glitching everywhere and such I even restarted my laptop aha well im glad to know it wasn't me :) love the video! keep it up fam
I heard through the grapevines that Classic Sonic was originally going to talk, with plans for Jaleel White to voice him, but I think he either declined or wasn't available; either way, Sonic Team apparently didn't have the time to find another voice actor for him, so they decided to make him mute; I'm not sure if any of this is actually true, but if so, that would explain why Classic Sonic is mute, although that doesn't mean that much considering the problem is in-universe, where there is no explanation. EDIT: I also wanna say that everything you said about Classic Sonic's portrayal in Generations and Forces reflects my feelings on him to a T. I remember thinking about why I don't like him in that game when I did in the Classic games months ago, and I believe it was then that it hit me: they really aren't the same character at all.
Classic Sonic is still somewhat cutesy even if Modern Sonic isn't there. The reason for the redesign during Sonic Adventure's development was not just to fit him into a 3D environment, not just to modernized him, but also to strengthen his "Too cool for school" image since his classic design was beginning to look out of date, didn't mash with 3D very well and he was beginning to be seen as "Cute", which they obviously didn't want for Sonic.
I just hope classic sonics not gonna be in the next 3D game and I definitely don’t want the characters too be one dimensional and the most thing that made me mad is tails being scared of chaos 0 he defeated chaos 4 in sa1 does character development not exist anymore
Modern Sonic just have 2D sections because people beg for them, and then complain that they hate it or don't like it, the same goes for the Wisps It's an extremely fine line between people who want and people who hate As a Classimoderventurist fan, I see no problem, in fact I agree with everything you said about Tails, and extremely yes about it being playable instead of Classic
Same. My favorite 2D sonic game is mania and my favorite 3D is generations. It is annoying when ppl say sega should stop scrapping things because they didn't work in one game- then proceed to tell sega to scrap something cause it failed in 1 game. Imo as long as it can be done well- i dont see a problem with it.
There literally was an interview where SEGA employees said something along the lines of „the best received parts of the mordern 3D Sonic games are the 2D sections, that’s why we keep putting them in“. Like bruh, nothing against 2D Sonic, but the whole point of a 3D game is to be in 3D. You have Mania now that focuses on being 2D, now you can focus on actually making a fully 3D game for once.
And Classic Sonic is mute due to: In the development of the game, they were unable to contact the Classic Sonic's Voice actor, from the classic cartoons; adventures of Sonic the hedgehog, Sonic Sat am, etc 😔🤔
You know what would be cool? If Sonic essentially constnatly switched between his Classic, Adventure and 06 (or Unleashed if you like this rounder and slightly more cartoony look of the character) designs, bringing different gampelay from their respective eras and tying it into one character
I'll go a step further and say the OC also held Tails back in forces. Gadgets have been Tails thing for a long time now and this could've been the first time since SA2 that it actually mattered in gameplay. All things considered my man was robbed big time
Ever noticed how in Mania Adventures and those Mega Drive comics how Classic Sonic looked and acted more mature and cocky than how he did in the games.
Big lost opportunity, if the phantom ruby was affecting other dimensions like Tails put it, you could've had Blaze come out of a portal from her own dimension and kill fake Chaos instead of Classic.
Generations itself already contradicts the idea of retconning Classic into his own timeline. Not just in Sonic and Tails calling their classic selves younger (which, tbf, is a reasonable way to explain design changes in canon. Amy is the perfect example of this, given how much more mature her modern redesign is compared to her very obviously childish Classic look), but both Sonic AND Tails also call Green Hill and Chemical Plant "familiar", and that says a lot given that, prior to Generations, Chemical Plant hadn't appeared in a long time and even Green Hill was relegated to having lookalikes with different names (a staple from back then, existing ever since Sonic 2, lol). Also it's stupid that even if we ARE counting timeline stuff into account, Tails calls him as being "from another dimension", when Tails is supposedly one of the smartest members of the cast. If ANYONE can figure out Classic Sonic's from a timeline split that THEY caused back in Generations, it's either him or Eggman (or both), but neither does it and both pretend he's just "from another dimension" (despite Silver being from an alternate future while being right here in the story. Heck, the "alternate dimension" thing is Blaze's schtick, why not include HER instead?).
Classic sonic is stuck in a time lapse, classic mania sonic went into a portal at the end of the game, then he gets to sonic forces, at the end of the game, he goes back to sonic mania, um unfortunately after that the same thing happened over and over again
He actually hasn't been in a separate dimension the whole time, I think when the Time Eater showed up it caused Classic Sonic to avoid his normal duties that the original timeline was still planning, causing the Timelines to split, as Modern Sonic wasn't effected by his Younger Self beating up Eggman and the Time Eater. I suck at explaining things but there you go.
It was more because Classic Eggman saw where Modern Eggman went wrong and planned accordingly. That’s why Modern Sonic never experienced Mania and Classic Sonic never experienced Adventure and beyond
The joke is, the devs basically chose hardmode for themselves. They cannot focus on classic sonic too much, because that universe can only span 4 years inuniverse before people are justified in calling bullshit. Why? Well, ignoring that classic eggman only knows of the timeeater-plan from modern eggman from what we know(he does not even know who everyone is), not everything happening in the world is relying on him. Black doom is still going to invade and characters like cream would still exist, just that she never met sonic. Chaos might very well still come back, even without eggmans help. Shadow still exists too and would likely be reawakened at the latest when black doom returns, which is when he would start the plan to take down earth by letting the ark fall. Mephiles is the rare case where the modern concept cannot appear in the new timeline because 06 happens before the timelinesplit. Edit:I forgot that secret rings and shuffle would also 100% happen because those have 0 things to do with eggman.
@@lpfan4491 You realize Eggman could go a different way with each plan, right? That means he could release Shadow earlier than he was in the modern timeline. Also, even if there are predetermined things happening later on, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s still a new timeline and that everyone’s interactions will be different
I think Classic Sonic was ok in Generations, I wish he could talk just like Classic Tails and Eggman but in Forces uhhh... no. (Also the Kingdom Hearts reference got me!)
"So there's the Classic dimension which has Green Hill and Chemical Plant, and the Modern dimension which has Green Hill and Chemical Plant!" Seriously, to all the people at Sega who made this stupid retcon and all the sheep who mindlessly follow them, how does this not sound completely redundant and needlessly convoluted than it all just being one Sonic, one continuous narrative? No matter how much they try to give some kind of in-game explanation for them, these changes are only being made to appease whiney fanboys who can't accept simple alterations like Sonic having green eyes!
The reason why Classic Sonic never faced Infinite the Jackal (from Sonic Forces), because he's always focusing on Dr. Eggman and his evil plans even more. He doesn't care.
I honestly loathe the entire existence of a 'Classic Sonic'. Not only does it needlessly split Sonic into two when it's supposed to be the same character, not to mention Classic Sonic doesn't look like that in the context of the universe, it's an artstyle and the classic look isn't what the characters look like canonically. Classic Sonic never talking when Sonic in general is a character that is known to be a wisecracker since the beginning, Sonic Team retconning the classic games being from another universe and not the past doesn't even make sense since the modern titles brought up events that happened in the classic games (Amy remembering what happened in CD during SA1 for an example) and it makes things more confusing esspically when Sonic referenced Generations when he sees Classic. Like this isn't Jay Gerrick and Barry Allen Sega! Not to mention this Generations-Forces desgin looks bad, the classic designs don't look very good in HD renders. It's fine if it's Sonic R or Sonic The Fighters since that polygonal look is more charming because of those imperfections but they do not work in HD. Like that's why they redsign the characters in the first place when the series transition into 3D. The classic look of the characters were never supposed to be in a modern game for crying out loud! It's esspically jarring for Classic to be next to the other Sonic making him look like a little kid when he's known to be a teenger. Here's my whole takeaway, 'Classic Sonic' is what Sega THINKS Sonic in the genesis was. I refuse to believe this 'Classic Sonic' in Generations-Forces is the same Sonic in the Genesis Era and Mania. The Real Classic Sonic is more or less the same Sonic we know today, 'Classic Sonic' is just some mute kid who kinda looks like Sonic.
Me too. Many other characters (even the hated ones) deserve to appear in games, but no, instead we get Classic Sonic, the #1 WORST Sonic character ever.
Now that I watched this, I wish that sometimes classic sonic had a voice and that attitude, and he and modern sonic would have friendly arguments about who is faster.
I even get frustrated when people try to make sense of Classic Sonic being both Sonic's past and a Sonic from another dimension, aka timeline, when in the meantime there are other fans who think those two concepts are ridiculous and make the lore too unpurposefully complicated. As if the fanbase wasn't already divided enough. Granted, everyone has a right to their own opinion, but let's face it, if SEGA hadn't blown it by bringing Classic back for Forces, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It would be easier if the next game not only didn't have Classic Sonic in it, but also made very little acknowledgement of the events in Generations and Forces. That way it would be plausible to think of it as a soft reboot to the Colors Era if we so wished.
On the retcon thing, the way I see it, Classic and Modern Sonic used to be the same until Eggman and the Time Eater screwed over the past, and with the past counterparts knowing new stuff (via Classic Sonic attempting to copy the Homing Attack and Classic Eggman swearing to never copy his future self's plans), keeping them the same would screw over the other Sonic games inbetween S3&K and Generations due to the new abilities and knowledge the past learned, so the only way to keep the canon stable to avoid plot holes as well as keep the new effects is to split them into two.
Here's How The Sonic Forces Chaos 0 Fight Should Go. Tails Sees Chaos, That's Phase 1. After A Few Hits, Chaos Multiplies And Grabs Tails' Limbs. That's Where Classic Sonic Steps In And He Does Phase 2, Each Clone Takes One Hit, Once All The Chaos Is Defeated, The Fight Is Over.
Technically no! - Classic Sonic's World Trivia: Ian Flynn has stated multiple times that this dimension is really just the past of the Modern characters. This was also implied in Tailstube #4, with the statement that time is in and of itself a dimension, and that Classic Sonic returns to his own time, not his own dimension. So, it is confirmed that Classic Sonic is from the past and not from another dimension. The whole "Another Dimension" was just bad writing and technically he shouldn't have been in Sonic Forces to create all this confusion
What bothers me is that for people who grew up like me in the adventure to dark era we’re constantly force fed Classic Nostalgia like we grew up with it. But when I think of Sonic I think of stuff like Sonic X and Heroes which were the first things I knew Sonic from and It feels like our memories of Sonic have just been swept aside to pander to fans of the older games. Hopefully Frontiers can fix these issues and issue a balance for both Classic AND MODERN FANS of the franchise
However, removing Classic Sonic from Forces also erases the entire game itself since Mania's finale had both him and the Phantom Ruby sucked in after the latter's power conflicted with the Chaos Emeralds.
This video was EVERYTHING I thought of Classic Sonic! At this point, I'm actually starting to Believe that SEGA has a HUGE Hard-On for Classic Sonic, or at least there is someone on Sonic Team who is all "i DoNt LiKe ChAnGe!! EvErYtHiNg HaS tO sTaY tHe SaMe!!" Hell--I bet even SONIC GENERATIONS would be better without Classic! All you have to do is just dump classic Sonic into a 2-D Plane and BOOM! PERFECT!
I've always seen the alternate dimension thing as making sense. At the end of Generations, Sonic and Tails go back to Green Hill Zone, presumably Sonic 1/2. But these 2 as well as Robotnik aren't the exact same as the ones we knew in the past. They have knowledge of the future in the past, which would make it an alternate timeline from the main series timeline. Eggman probably had different plans, hence Sonic Mania
I once thought about making a sonic game that uses the old style seen in Sonic 1 and Sonic CD's intro with third person 3D gameplay like more modern ones. But instead of using actual 3D models, every object in the game except for the floor is 2.5D. What is that, you may ask? It's the same kind of dimensions seen in doom or wolfenstein. Where the map itself is 3D but every object/character is made of flat sprites that follow the player but sometimes have multiple sprites for each direction a character is facing them when not dead. But those were usually only for the front, back, and sides of the character. What I had in mind was sonic and everything else would have TONS of sprites for exactly EVERY angle. It would be meant to give the player the illusion that they are in an actual 90s sonic cartoon. Each character (good or bad) would even have sprites for when looking at them at any angles from above or below. The sprites wouldn't be pixelated either. They would have smooth lines that look drawn in that semi anime style in the sonic cd intro. I was also thinking of giving the screen a VHS static effect too as well as a rewind sign and tracking if the player died. The only shadows in the game would be the ones on the ground below objects and characters. The music itself would have a very hard core 90s feel that is meant to bring back the kind of style seen in the first sonic game. As for the story, well I was thinking it would retell the story of the first sonic. Star Light zone would probably look amazing in 3D.
I don't mind his portrayal in Generations, and I agree it'd work fine if that was all we got. But then Forces happened and ruined Classic being used in the current age. He is TERRIBLE to have in Forces, as he not only was pointless, he took a boss away and made one character worse. It doesn't help they changed it from time travel to another dimension and it doesn't make sense and is absolutely stupid. This is just like the two worlds with humans, a lazy excuse to explain a different design and not think about the simplicities in time travel (like split timelines). And Tails definitely should have been what we had in Forces, he could have been focused fully on gadgets and have his plot focus on how he has felt so useless lately and decides he finally needs to step up once more, like he used to. And Classic needs to be left out of new Modern titles, they can make all the fully Classic titles they want with him, but for the love of humanity keep him out of the modern games, they're not moving forward enough as is. If I see Classic Sonic in the next Modern game trailer, I'm going to lose my freaking mind. But if it's a Classic game with him in it, I'll be happy. Either way, he can still be here, but in his own lane.
@@thesmilingman7576 no the classic era games still happened in the main timeline, but the Classic and Modern world are now separate worlds for whatever reason.
On this video... There's the split timeline theory, where both Classic and Modern Sonic experienced 1, CD, 2, and 3&K, but the events of Generations affected a past Sonic and changed his future. While main Sonic experienced Sonic 4, Adventure, and onward, Classic experienced Mania. One piece of evidence is the start of Generations. If there was no split timeline, then Sonic would have tried to attack the Time Eater differently as his past self encountered it. Another evidence is Tails not recognizing it as well when it emerges from the vortex at the start. Classic Tails encountered it, but for some reason, main Tails didn't at the start. Third would be Classic Eggman calling his modern counterpart's plan horrible, and a common belief was that he would not try to copy his modern self's plots, which leads to Mania instead of 4. And in a Forces prequel comic, Modern Eggman does not know the Phantom Ruby when it wound up in his front door, establishing that Classic's world is separate, yet the same via the Genesis games.
"What forces brought you here this time?" Ok that was actually hilarious
I didn’t expect it XD XD
Yes. Yes it was. XD
I love sonic forces
I wish Classic Sonic stayed in Generations
Nah mania was great
@@sausage5488 For a moment.
@@sonicdash9652 what moment?
@@sausage5488 you are right Mania was good but SONIC DASH WHAT DO YOU MEAN FOR A MOMENT
Agreed😡 excluding dash runners and mania because they're mobile and official fangame Classic Sonic Should Stay In Generations😡
Generations should have been just a one time thing.
That's what I thought it was. I agree, should've stayed that way.
Nah we need a Generations 2 with levels from Sonic CD, Sonic Rush, Rush Adventure, Secret Rings, Black Knight, Lostworld, Sonic Mania, and Sonic Forces
@@theminecraft2516 pfft
@@theminecraft2516 See, that's ok again. As long as it's an anniversary game or something.
Sonic Adventure 3 starring the freedom fighters from SatAM?
Classic Sonic overstayed his welcome.
Ok I agree that he shouldn't have been in forces but he has done much better than modern sonic, also it seems like that there are kids playing sonic mania and probably the mobile ports of classic sonic if there are going to be kids growing up to classic sonic now Sega is going to bring him back in 10 or 15 years to bank on that classic nostalgia and then it repeats
Ummm uhhh Fuck?
@Super Mario Michael oh funk of mario
@@34r343 kids should be playing modern sonic not classic sonic if I am being honest. The 2D play style is great but it needs to go, I mean when was the last time you saw a 2D Mario game? Nintendo doesn’t need to use nostalgia to keep them alive whereas Sega does it to pander to old time fans. Classic Sonics era is finished and we need to focus on the 3D gameplay of Modern Sonic so it can become good again maybe mix adventure with it. It’s kinda sad that the classic version is doing better than the version we are supposed to have today, hopefully Sega stops using him but it’s very unlikely….
@@mylem6234 you are simply wrong. 2d is 10 times better and it shows both in the number of players and sells for mania. Absolutely everyone enjoys 2d more than 3d and you will find nobody having a 3d sonic game as their favourite. Sonic mania is the living proof of you being wrong
I swear Classic looks so lame next to Modern in Generations. Where's that cocky, heart of gold, shonen teenage hero who won't hesitate to help someone by getting it done right, and getting done fast? All he is now is some chibi, cute marketable plushy that doesn't represent the true spirit of Sonic's character, or the series as a whole...
"please sega, don't turn me into a marketable chibi"
He looks more like a disney character next to a anime character to me😡
And yet some fans still see Classic as the "Real Sonic!"
They are same the fans who think Shadow is a edgy anti hero.
@@zemox2534 And probably the same people who say things like "Nobody plays Sonic games for the story or characters, just the gameplay!" And because of these numbnuts Sega are thinking to themselves "Really? Great! We don't have to work as hard on characterisation! Just have characters running around going HERPY DERP, AREN'T WE SILLY, KIDS?"
I don’t mind him in Generations since he was made to show how far the series had come, Hell they intended to have an ‘Adventure Sonic’ who was all 3D as a counter although he was cut (because this timeline is evil), but in Forces he was completely forced.
Also again, Tails in Forces going crazy after Sonic supposedly died should have been him going berserk and getting in the mech again. Like remember last time he saw Sonic “die” in front of him (where as far as he was concerned it was his fault he was killed) he fought and defeated Eggman even if he couldn’t stop the canon.
Having Tails hallucinating with Classic Sonic would be a good way to have him "lose it"
The Dreamcast sonic thing was a rumor
@Super Mario Michael 2 just because an era exists does not mean there will be a different sonic
@Super Mario Michael 2 even sega said dreamcast sonic was modern sonic
@Super Mario Michael 2 and to be fair, generations classic sonic and forces is just a retcon of normal sonic aka modern in the 90s
It was fine in generations. It made sense. The problem was the never stopped using him........
Gotta say, Yeah, Classic HAS outstayed his welcome in "Modern Sonic" games. As you pointed out, His Role in Games like Sonic Forces, takes a Slot better suited for characters like Tails and Cream.
Hell, this could have been a good chance to try sneaking in SatAM Characters like Sally Acorn, Bunnie Rabbot, Antoine D'Coollette, Rotor... They're after all, _Still_ property of SEGA Sonic Team, and CAN Be Implimented into the games...
And maybe even play around with Slower Gameplay styles, similar to Knuckle's "Powerglide" style, where he's unable to Speed along, but has strength and the ability to glide.
Frankly, the "Rookie" Character should have had more options for Combat, rather than somehow having Sonic's Speed abilities.
Unfortunately, Sonic Team is currently going in the opposite direction on many of the points you made:
"a Slot better suited for characters like Tails and Cream"
Sega listened to the critics who were saying "Sonic has too many stupid friends", which is why lately all the focus has been on just Sonic.
"this could have been a good chance to try sneaking in SatAM Characters"
It is believed that Sega of Japan doesn't want to acknowledge the characters made for western Sonic media. It's more of an hypothesis than something we know with more certainty like the mandates, but still, don't hold your hopes up for that.
"And maybe even play around with Slower Gameplay styles"
Don't you know that every non-Sonic gameplay style sucks? Or so say the critics Sega likes to listen to who never learned how to play the games properly.
Thank you for speaking the truth
@@inendlesspain4724 Unfortunately true for the part about "Critics" who said that Sonic has "Too many Stupid Friends", nevermind the fact that there's only so much you can do when having a "Free and Wisecracking" blue hedgehog as the main focus... And that's if you keep allowing the Hedgehog to be the one most focused on, the Flaws and limits become more prevalant, and people start getting tired.
It's like eating nothing but Hamburgers for breakfast, lunch and dinner without any changes to the burger for weeks. You'll start getting bored and want to eat something else. It's the same with constantly focusing mainly on Sonic. People start losing interest.
Yes, Having too many characters turning up all at once is a bit much, but that doesn't mean there should be less playable options.
However, those same critics who also bash on "Non-Sonic Fighting styles", _clearly_ never had to play as Knuckles or Tails in their Playable Classic games. (Tails is Slightly slower than Sonic, faster than Knuckles, and can hover for a short while, but tires quickly, while Knuckles is Slower than Both Sonic and Tails, but is a Heavy hitter, can Climb surfaces and Glide controllably.) Their Fighting Styles are radically Different to Sonic's, but they are anything BUT Sucky. They're fun, a Breath of Fresh air, and can allow for better replayability of the game.
To keep playing as what is basically a Reskin or Recostumed Sonic with _Maybe_ a Few Bells tied to them, makes it rather dull and sucky of an experience.
However, SOJ (Sega of Japan) isn't the one stopping SatAM cast members from Joining the games. That's SOA (Sega of America). They actually have more control over the Sonic Series than SOJ does, and SOA seems to want to pretend that SatAM doesn't exist. Yes, SOJ did the mandates, but shortly after, they transferred control to SOA.
@@noahwhite7268 You're welcome!
Too much text
The "another dimension" thing still pisses me off.
It's like Sonic Team tried to copy the loophole they used for Puyo Puyo in order to unretcon the previous worlds' that were built and established for Puyo Puyo up to it's 20th anniversary, and then never realized why it actually worked in Puyo Puyo's case. Spoiler alert, it's because the continuities in Puyo Puyo were always completely different from each other in terms of it's characters and the worlds they take place in, so reviving the two old continuities through dimension hopping wasn't gonna contradict anything established in the latest continuity. Not to mention they make use of the EXTENDED cast of each dimension, instead of just one character. It's wild how the same team can do a great continuity for one series, but then fall flat on their face when making the other.
Agreed, wholeheartedly.
I'm still baffled as to how an enormous software developer such as SEGA still manages to let through mistranslations this important.
To be fair, it at least patched up the plot hole in Generations, which is the game happening even if Sonic, Tails, and Eggman had their past selves experience the events.
I agree, Classic Sonic should've just appeared in 'Generations' and then left out of 'Forces' to make room for any of the other characters.
Funny thing is, you can see that Classic Sonic has a personality in the Sonic Mania material. And then he loses all of his personality in Sonic Forces...
That pretty much happened to every character in forces, they don't even get idle animations
@@brolookatthatthingbehindyo1324 Yeah.
@@brolookatthatthingbehindyo1324 Except for the Avatar
I just love the fact according to Sonic Jam, Classic Sonic is one year older than Modern Sonic which is straight up hilarious. I hate Classic Sonic and I wish Sega would understand why.
Too bad all the Classic Sonic games sell circles around the new ones. To this day and digitally. The only Modern Sonic game that was popular is Sonic Forces Speed Battle. Its now called Sonic Forces and is the only version of Sonic Forces Sega promotes
@@littletiffany9089 I don't care how well Mania sold. There's ZERO reason to give up on Modern Sonic.
Some clarification:
SEGA has a terrible translation team.
These are the same people whom made Charmy 16.
@@testaccount4830 Tbf, the Japanese manual for Knuckles Chaotix didn't have any age listed for the Chaotix so STI made up the ages for them.
"Tails should have been the third playable character".
This doesnt even touch on the fact that "Forces" and the resistance going to war with Eggman was a perfect name and scenario to being back gameplay something similar to Heroes. Or at least with most of the cast being playable, since they're all in HQ as it is. Why talk about Forces when it's literally only 2.5 characters? Such a waste of potential and naming.
Unless it’s another Generations like game, classic Sonic in modern games should only be a non-canon unlockable mode
Since it's a reupload I think I need to mention it again, 4:24 is incredible.
I still see Classic as like a prepubescent Sonic, like a preteen/younger teen Sonic, It makes sense when you see how Sonic was getting taller and his hair was getting darker and how RCS's Sonic voice sounds like he's older.
The most atrocious thing that with the retcon in Forces has done, is the fact that characters like Mighty, Ray, and The Hooligans are unable to appear in current the IDW series/or games after Forces cause someone, or some people who work at SEGA has this completely fucking stupid mentality that, if these specific characters didn’t show up in games that are are now considered a separate universe because someone at either SEGA or SonicTeam forgot to include these guys in anything after the “bit wars” because clearly there was never a Comic series that ran for nearly twenty five years that expanded on who they were, and kept them relevant until Sonic Mania plus came out....
Well to be honest Archie and Sega did had a bad relationship so why use material that they Created
@@BlueJack222 why do these corporate imbeciles keep making deals with others, treat them like horse droppings and then being suprised that more people want to see them beaten to death with their own designer shoes? That's ****ing cliche villain's thinking!
Finally, after ages and ages. I found someone who understands my exact thoughts about Classic Sonic. I used to be a huge Sonic fan, support Sonic in any ways and forms, I was hyped as heck for Generations. I thought it was a nice move to bring back Classic Sonic once but it should've ended there. Now he became irritating and annoying to the point I deslike the games not only because they're not that good, but also because Classic Sonic is there and I've had enough of nostalgia pandering... Seriously I've been wishing for ages to have the same feels of playability and improved from the adventure era... some say I might be adventure biased but it's nice to play a different character other than Sonic and his classic self for once, and yea modern stages should be completly 3D, the 2D sections defeat the purpose of "speed" which is why I'm also a bit agaisnt boost mechanic, but it's nice on some sections of the stage. Also Tails, wth have they done to Tails, remember the Tails from Sonic Adventure 1 and 2? He wanted to prove himself strong without Sonic, now he just cowers and calls for help? I'm not expecting anything big from SEGA or Sonic team next though, I just don't wanna play this formula for the next 20 years.
@Games we'll you're right, i got it wrong for blaming nostalgia pandering. It doesn't make sense they're just gonna sink it even more, Forces wasn't enjoyable at all, I'm not a fan of Mania even if my favourite game of Classic times was Sonic 3 and Knuckles. I don't mind them keeping a "Classic style series" on a side but should stop ruining modern or forcefully insert Classic in modern games without an explanation. The story is already a mess, no continuity whatsoever, the characters personality is different and it just doesn't feel like the franchise we grew up with, it's trying to be like something it's not. I hope Sonic Team will someday understand "not everyone loves classic Sonic like they do", some are literally full of it to the point they abandon something they really liked...
@Games He is right about one thing.
@Games naw it's straight up nostalgia pandering. I don't give a fuck about what anyone from Sonic Team says. Classic Sonic had no business being in Forces.
@@the757general2 The problem is that Sonic is too short for an HD triple A game, so Sega uses classic sonic to make the game longer. There's a reason the Werehog was used in Unleashed because without him the game would be too short for a full priced game.
Sonic games weren't designed to be as long as most Mario games.
Sad that we will never see the hooligans along with Mighty and Ray in modern at all due to the classic dimension retcon.
I feel ya man
Unless if they say the 2010 era is a Retcon material, there might be a hope for it.
It's crazy to think that they won't allow Mighty and Ray to have modern updates and voices despite the fact that a lot of fans would love to see that, and yet Green Hill, Chemical Plant, the Death Egg and the "ALMIGHTY CLASSIC SONIC" have to be in every single game these days despite the fact that a lot of people are sick to the back teeth of them!
@@bowmaj8666 Yeah, but at least the Death Egg has an excuse with it being something that eggman always built appearing in both sonic 2 and sonic 3 & knuckles. Chemical Plant and Green hill are lazy nostalgia trips that have been overused in sonic media past generations to hook fans of the genesis games.
@@bowmaj8666 you are way wrong. Sales imply that people are more sick of Modern than Classic. The reasoning behind Sonic Forces and Team Sonic Racing's lower budget is cause of Sega's anticipation of lower sales. Sonic Mania is the 3rd highest selling Sonic the Hedgehog title behind Sonic 1 and 2. Even though it was only out for 3 years. Only Sonic Adventure 2 is popular enough to follow. Modern Sonic's fanbase are just keyboard warriors and meme people.
7:00 That bothers me so much, it's like just learning I was playing as an imposter ever since SA1, it's like finding out my real parents were replaced after an accident and somehow I just never noticed, but I digress, I won't be taking into account Sonic Team's or Iizuka's dumb last minute retcons.
I bet Yuji Naka is pissed about it too.
@@sonicdash9652 Wish Naka could just barge into SEGA's HQ and take over, but yeah obviously they never intended to do this alternate dimension nonsense, no way in hell did they conteplated Sonic was going to be divided into 2 canons back in 1990, so Classic Sonic is younger modern Sonic, PERIOD! and they can go to hell with their dumb retcons like Sonic jumping casually from the human world (SA1 & SA2) to furry world (Forces) which doesn't make sense considering Angel Isalnd and Green Hill are in the supposedly "Human" world.
Ok, in their defense, that's not at all what Iizuka-san said. The only game that takes place in the so-called "classic dimension" is Mania
I feel if a character can be removed from the narrative without it changing anything, their only saving grace is entertainment value.
Classic Sonic couldn't even achieve that.
[Merlina, now transformed as the Dark Queen, is sitting on a throne.]
Dark Queen: I've been expecting you.
Sonic: Just one question before we settle this. Why'd you do it? Weren't we trying to save this franchise from the underworld?
Dark Queen: This franchise will fail one way or another. Such is its fate.
Sonic: Huh?
Dark Queen: Do you know what is to become of this franchise?
Sonic: Beats me.
[The Dark Queen starts to walk forward]
Dark Queen: The introduction of humans and guns shall doom the franchise. Sonic is struck down by Mephiles, and is then kissed back to life by a human princess.
Sonic: ...
Dark Queen: This was to be our ideal world. But it will not last... Sonic the Hedgehog and his friends will end in ruin. The 3D world my grandfather Merlin created led to nothing but mistakes... But I can succeed with the power of the scabbard. Creating a 2D kingdom that never ends. [Uses a small portal to summon a Sonic The Hedgehog Mega Drive cartridge.]
[A flashback of the "To the Blacksmith" scene with Merlina picking up the same Mega Drive cartridge. Sonic finally realizes what her plans are.]
Sonic: What good is a world where Green Hill goes on forever!?
Dark Queen: My sorrow at its ruin runs deeper than the depths of the underworld. Do you not understand?
Sonic: No! And I don't want to!
sonic: merlina every franchise has its ups and downs i know that's kinda sad but that's why we gotta learn from those mistakes so we can do better in the future at least that's what i figure
thats what sega needs to do they have to stop running away from their mistakes and instead learn from them so they can do better in the future
Me: *points Sonic and Merlina the truth on why this franchise is dead*
Due to the lack of ambition, passion and creativity, lack of self-respect, lack of identity, fractured fanbase, less knowledgeable development team, awful writing, barebones gameplay, character flanderization since Colors/Free Riders, Deadly Six, over-reliance on nostalgia, the critics (IGN, ProJared, GameGrumps), Pontac & Graff, memes, Sonic Twitter Account, sidelining the characters in favor of trash like Classic Sonic and the Deadly Six, and Takashi Iizuka fucking up the timeline, this franchise is dead.
There will be a time, when the Sonic fanbase and critics stop complaining about *SoNiC's StUpId FrIeNdS!!!* There will be a time, when the fanbase starts complaining about newer Sonic games being nothing, but filled with bland, barebones, boring, barren gameplay and awful, safe, confusing, nostalgia-pumped story, with characters being totally flanderized.
Huh. I don't remember Genesis Sonic being a balloon.
Yeah.
"WHY DON'T YOU GO BACK TO THE '90s, WHERE YOU BELONG?!"
Rocko’s Modern Life: Static Cling reference? :)
Classic Sonic is so uninteresting, he's just a cash grab Sega made to shut up nostalgia pandering critics who "criticize" every other thing Sega does that's creative or experimental. Classic Sonic ain't powerful or unique either, he's just slower nerfed version of Sonic. I wish there was never a Modern or Classic Sonic, just Sonic
Yeah, Classic is extremely heavy compared to how he played in the classics.
And yeah, it is really confusing for there to be two Sonics. Just one please.
@@yellowmello1223 facts no Classic or Modern Sonic, just Sonic who went through a design change over the years like EVERY video game character does
I seriously miss the adventure era
@@donathan2933 sonic character has so much potential to be explored
@@freyaljones7368 facts especially Sonic himself, he has so much potential to grow, become stronger and gain amazing powers but Sega don't do nothin with him
I also kind of hated how they brought back the Egg Dragoon as an early easy boss when they could have used Chaos 0 to reference the Adventure boss, whether it was Classic Sonic or Tails fighting him.
Ken Pontac & Warren Graff: Sonic's friends are cheerleaders!
Kevin Munroe: Sonic's companions have a purpose. They need to help him!! They're character development should be explored with sequels!
Jun Falkenstein: Munroe is right! There's no point in converting warriors into cheerleaders.
Tom Tanaka: With Kev, here.
Chris Avellone: Well, Kevin makes a point. But what is the purpose?
I so agree with you. Tails or Knuckles should have been playable from the start. Personally I didn't even care for the avatar character. I felt like that was a waste... any main sonic character could of filled that void.
I'm not a fan of Classic Sonic. I'm not a fan of Modern Sonic. I'm a fan of Sonic.
Exactly
Thank you
So both of them? Cuz they're both sonic...
@@8bitwarrior037 What I mean is that I miss the old days when Sonic had a continuous continuity, and Modern and Classic Sonic were the same person instead of this. The Sonic Adventure games REFERENCED events that happened in the 2D games as canon! They were the same people! The Sonic games had a real continuity and story before Sonic Unleashed... Each game built on the last one's character growth from the last... Now it's just weird.
@@quonit37 The problem is that Sonic is too short for an HD triple A game, so Sega uses classic sonic to make the game longer. There's a reason the Werehog was used in Unleashed because without him the game would be too short for a full priced game.
Sonic games weren't designed to be as long as most Mario games.
Honestly, it was just Forces that went overboard with Classic Sonic. Generations and Mania were fine.
I think a larger problem is Modern Sonic losing its identity, adopting more and more Classic iconography and badniks and what have you.
100% the truth.
Definitely Should've kept his robots from Heroes because i think those designs really sells his image to me
Sega mishandles Classic Sonic by making him a caricature of what Sonic was. Sonic should be Sonic, no matter what the incarnation. I don't like that they basically split the universe in two with Mania and Forces.
And Iizuka ain't done with retcons.
Classicists, that's why.
aw yeah, this is happening!
again
Lmao nice one
Lost World does not exist me. It’s a Family Guy episode. I refuse to believe it exists.
Hey Lois. Remember that time I stopped a guy from torturing a Bowser wannabe with a conch, only for him to not help me in return, but attack me?
5:41 - "AND IT'S-" *ad plays*
Happened to me too 😂
There’s actually an explanation for that universe retcon. After Generations, Classic Eggman is aware of all of Modern Eggman’s failures and goes on to make schemes that should work, such as stealing the Phantom Ruby from Angel Island. This creates an alternate timeline where Classic Sonic experiences Mania, but never any of the games past Sonic Adventure. Modern Sonic is still the same Sonic we saw in the 90s, there’s just another one that is having his own separate adventures in another timeline or dimension
Soooo in Classic Sonic's universe is now altered. Interesting.
@@DumDoDoor It’s a basic law of time travel. If something changes in the past, the future will be different. Most time travel stories like Back to the Future do that to begin with.
No. Sega put a mandate on IDW comics preventing them from implying that Modern and Classic are the same person. In any mainstream continuity, Classic and Modern must be declared different entities.
@@ling8956 This has nothing to do with the comics. Modern Sonic still started his adventures with Sonic 1. Classic Sonic was deemed a separate character because he is now in a separate timeline having his own adventures that Modern can’t have, starting with Mania
Except that wasn't what they went for.
Tails says "hey your that sonic from another dimension" referencing generations. Except in generations he was younger sonic. Its a retcon.
I know multiverse theory is a thing but thats not at all confirmed. And if it was they are trying to BADLY cover they're asses by saying "uhhhhh yeah that's what we did"
I swear sega is like “oh you like this??” “Then well have it in every single game for the 10 games
Oh boy, this little guy... Ok, I'm just gonna be honest and say that, I wasn't really into Classic Sonic. My introduction to Sonic was in the form of modern Sonic, with my taster in Super Smash Bros Brawl but with my first Sonic game being Sonic Unleashed way back in 2008, despite we had Secret Rings first but didn't played it. Generations came around and I was like; "Ok, what's the idea of having two Sonics in this one game." In the story, I didn't really care much since I thought the story was pretty shallow and really bland. Fast forward 6 years later to Sonic Mania and Forces's teasers, I wasn't invested in Mania and was had high hopes for Forces until he was shown. By the time Forces was out and boy did Classic Sonic was not only pointless, but his "character origin" is just wrong... A different dimension Sonic but not the past Sonic because Sega doesn't care about continuity, it really drives me bananas because of that very piece of info is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG!!! At this point of time I'm just like; "Sega, please stop using Classic Sonic, especially in the 3D games. Go back to the routes of the Adventure series where we can play as the other characters." I hate to say this, but Sega. You need to do another Sonic 06, not in terms of rushing the development, but bringing back the Adventure style form you left us off with.
7:23 Sonic: Puts on a silly hat
Eggman Nega: *GASP!* PERRY THE PLATYPUS!?
I wasn't even in the fanbase when the Forces trailer came back, but I remember seeing the darker tone and stuff and being like, "Yeah, that's a good move. It's been a while since they did a game with that tone."
Then Classic Sonic showed up and I instantly lost all hope of this being good. His inclusion in Forces was such a poor CONCEPT that literally anybody could see that it was a bad idea.
Though I suppose Forces in general is something anybody could make a better version of in their sleep.
I will never step off.
Sonic Generations should have been the only game to have Classic Sonic in a modern Sonic game
When looking at everything Sega has done with this classic design of Sonic over the last few years, it proves to me that they no longer understand or even care about the continuity of this franchise.
There's a quote from the Legacy of Kain series that I feel sums up a lot of the negative effects of what Sega has been doing with all of Classic Sonic and these ridiculous retcons.
"History abhors a paradox."
That's what Classic Sonic is to me now, especially when he's shoved into games he serves no purpose in. At this point, I'd almost prefer Classic Sonic to disappear and just be nothing but a memory again. His time is over and it's been over since 1998/1999.
Classic worked in Gens because the game was SUPPOSED to be about Modern meeting Classic. It didn’t work in Forces because that’s not what the game was about, he was just sorta crammed in there.
What’s worse though was that Classic’s role in the story was already occupied by someone else - Silver. Silver came from a future where Eggman had won the war to lend the heroes a helping hand, then here comes Classic saying “No, I’LL be the one to lend a hand and turn this thing around!” In fact when you think about it, it doesn’t even make sense because surely that must have already happened in the timeline that led to Silver’s future, right? Surely the ONLY factor that could possibly change the outcome of the war was Silver. But nope, he just gets shafted to minor background character who does nothing of note and we’re given Classic for literally no reason at all.
Generations was a game all about celebrating Sonic’s entire history, so yes, it was appropriate for Classic to share the spotlight with Modern. Forces was SUPPOSED to simply be the next mainline game and the focus was SUPPOSED to be on the war between the Mobians and Eggman. We already had plenty of characters to focus on, Classic had no place.
In my eyes, Sonic, Avatar and Silver should’ve been the three playstyles, with short DLCs similar to Episode: Shadow focussed on other characters during the conflict. Like there could be an episode where you play as Tails during the time Sonic’s imprisoned and after he breaks out, with a boss fight where he ACTUALLY FIGHTS Chaos 0, before being overwhelmed and needing to be rescued. And then there could be episodes for Knuckles, Vector, Amy, etc., allowing for a wide range of playable characters and an expansive story whilst keeping the main game itself focussed on the 3 main styles.
My headcanon is that when Classic Sonic vanishes at the end of Forces, he actually died. And hopefully he won't come back.
My headcannon is that *Santiago* is actually canon and Classic Sonic was in fact missing since 1998
When I saw the the forces teaser when classic show up i said I'm not playing your games
I'll repeat what I said on the glitchy version of the video: Thank you for that Chain of Memories edit. That was a thing of beauty.
And yes, given SEGA and Iizuka are really blind to their own fans and prefer to listen to detractors like Arin Hanson/Egoraptor (and they even INVITE THEM OVER FANS!!) and memers, yes, Classic Sonic will be back in the next game.
They have stopped caring.
Yes. To the point that I might as well stick to the sonic movie and the Idw comics because at least that was a 1,000 times better than whatever pandering bullshit sega comes up with and at least they're well written.
@@Borger3941 I'm also sticking to Archie comics, Sonic OVA, SatAM and even Sonic X.
@@tiruliru1189 I can understand as well cause those are also well written....... With the exception of Chris Thorndike.
@@Borger3941 I'm also sticking to Dreamcast Era and even the Dark Age (2005-2010), and maybe Colors and Generations if it wasn't for piss-poor writing.
@@tiruliru1189 And I'm also doing the same by sticking to the dark age and dreamcast.
I wish these classic sonic boomers would end
Geez man
Can’t go wrong with some good o’l champagne 🍾 🥂
@The Sega General Returns Sonic Mania outsold all 2002-2017;Sonic games in 30 days. Lets recap
www.segasammy.co.jp/english/ir/library/pdf/settlement/2018/20171102_2q_youshi_e.pdf
Sega's 6 month financial report was due on September 30th 2017. Sonic Mania released August 2017. By the September 30th report date, Sonic Mania already outsold all Sonic titles in the last 15 years. 2002-2017
@@moniques6204 Sonic Forces sold more copies on the switch than Mario odyssey in the first week of sales...
This may not seem like a big deal, but compared to what they say about it, it is much more interesting...
If they really need to bring Classic back, why not just make him a skin for Sonic instead of his own character? Just a neat little bonus for older fans, but not forced on the player.
The problem with that is that is good idea
You mean Classic Sonic boosting, homing attacking, stomping, sliding, side stepping and maybe drifting?
I'm down
Like the mario 64 costume in odyssey
Modern Sonic is notably taller with longer spines so I don't see how that would work
@@Excalibur5k i guess
Sega didnt do what Nintendoes
after Generations, we should've gotten Classic Sonic in Mania and future games only taking place after S3&K while Modern Sonic just focuses on modern games that involves on creativity and innovation
I watched the original vid and I actually thought some of the glitchy stuff was my laptop being weird lol. colors glitching everywhere and such I even restarted my laptop aha well im glad to know it wasn't me :) love the video! keep it up fam
I’m gonna believe that classic sonic is modern sonic from the past.
No one can change my belief.
Iizuka certainly would want to change it, tho.
I got no problem with classic sonic if he only appears in games like Sonic Mania Plus sequels
*T A K E T H A T Y O U L O U S Y D I M E N S I O N !*
-Classic Sonic
Modern Sonic:"Oh hey it's my clone. So what FORCES brought you here this time?"
Me:"I'm a year late, but SHUT UP BEFORE YOU GIVE THEM IDEAS!!!"
I heard through the grapevines that Classic Sonic was originally going to talk, with plans for Jaleel White to voice him, but I think he either declined or wasn't available; either way, Sonic Team apparently didn't have the time to find another voice actor for him, so they decided to make him mute; I'm not sure if any of this is actually true, but if so, that would explain why Classic Sonic is mute, although that doesn't mean that much considering the problem is in-universe, where there is no explanation.
EDIT: I also wanna say that everything you said about Classic Sonic's portrayal in Generations and Forces reflects my feelings on him to a T. I remember thinking about why I don't like him in that game when I did in the Classic games months ago, and I believe it was then that it hit me: they really aren't the same character at all.
After Forces, my rage and hatred of Classic Sonic grows stronger every time I play Forces.
I so feel that.
Classic Sonic is still somewhat cutesy even if Modern Sonic isn't there. The reason for the redesign during Sonic Adventure's development was not just to fit him into a 3D environment, not just to modernized him, but also to strengthen his "Too cool for school" image since his classic design was beginning to look out of date, didn't mash with 3D very well and he was beginning to be seen as "Cute", which they obviously didn't want for Sonic.
I just hope classic sonics not gonna be in the next 3D game and I definitely don’t want the characters too be one dimensional and the most thing that made me mad is tails being scared of chaos 0 he defeated chaos 4 in sa1 does character development not exist anymore
No, character development does not exist to Pontac and Graff.
@@yellowmello1223 😰😰you what they was character development in the adventure era so why not modern era
@@freyaljones7368
Because Pontac and Graff have absolutely no idea what the series is and who the characters are.
@@yellowmello1223 isn’t that the writers for happy tree friends and why the hell dis they hire them
@@yellowmello1223 has pontaff been fired
I'm 99% confident Classic Sonic is here to stay, and I don't think I'll ever get over it.
This is a mockery of the Sonic from the Genesis era.
I probably won’t buy another Modern game unless he isn’t on it
I'm glad the "Two worlds" bullcrap has been abolished.
Modern Sonic just have 2D sections because people beg for them, and then complain that they hate it or don't like it, the same goes for the Wisps
It's an extremely fine line between people who want and people who hate
As a Classimoderventurist fan, I see no problem, in fact I agree with everything you said about Tails, and extremely yes about it being playable instead of Classic
Same. My favorite 2D sonic game is mania and my favorite 3D is generations. It is annoying when ppl say sega should stop scrapping things because they didn't work in one game- then proceed to tell sega to scrap something cause it failed in 1 game.
Imo as long as it can be done well- i dont see a problem with it.
There literally was an interview where SEGA employees said something along the lines of „the best received parts of the mordern 3D Sonic games are the 2D sections, that’s why we keep putting them in“. Like bruh, nothing against 2D Sonic, but the whole point of a 3D game is to be in 3D. You have Mania now that focuses on being 2D, now you can focus on actually making a fully 3D game for once.
@@rainpooper7088Yes, it's a loop lol, they want to do a 3D game but 2D makes success, so they have to dance to with the music let's just say
And Classic Sonic is mute due to:
In the development of the game, they were unable to contact the Classic Sonic's Voice actor, from the classic cartoons; adventures of Sonic the hedgehog, Sonic Sat am, etc 😔🤔
@@cleanfoxboy9225 In that case cut the bullshit and stop calling them 3D games if you’re not going to commit to the 3D.
You know what would be cool? If Sonic essentially constnatly switched between his Classic, Adventure and 06 (or Unleashed if you like this rounder and slightly more cartoony look of the character) designs, bringing different gampelay from their respective eras and tying it into one character
That’s a great idea but it’s the classic fanboys who hate it.
I'll go a step further and say the OC also held Tails back in forces. Gadgets have been Tails thing for a long time now and this could've been the first time since SA2 that it actually mattered in gameplay. All things considered my man was robbed big time
Ever noticed how in Mania Adventures and those Mega Drive comics how Classic Sonic looked and acted more mature and cocky than how he did in the games.
And in the intro of SCD
Big lost opportunity, if the phantom ruby was affecting other dimensions like Tails put it, you could've had Blaze come out of a portal from her own dimension and kill fake Chaos instead of Classic.
But Blaze is not a Sonic, she's a "shitty friend" for the detractors, remember? The crowd that SEGA bizarrely try to please?
My man, that isn't Classic Sonic, That's Santiago. Beware
BEWARE THE SANTIAGO
Generations itself already contradicts the idea of retconning Classic into his own timeline. Not just in Sonic and Tails calling their classic selves younger (which, tbf, is a reasonable way to explain design changes in canon. Amy is the perfect example of this, given how much more mature her modern redesign is compared to her very obviously childish Classic look), but both Sonic AND Tails also call Green Hill and Chemical Plant "familiar", and that says a lot given that, prior to Generations, Chemical Plant hadn't appeared in a long time and even Green Hill was relegated to having lookalikes with different names (a staple from back then, existing ever since Sonic 2, lol).
Also it's stupid that even if we ARE counting timeline stuff into account, Tails calls him as being "from another dimension", when Tails is supposedly one of the smartest members of the cast. If ANYONE can figure out Classic Sonic's from a timeline split that THEY caused back in Generations, it's either him or Eggman (or both), but neither does it and both pretend he's just "from another dimension" (despite Silver being from an alternate future while being right here in the story. Heck, the "alternate dimension" thing is Blaze's schtick, why not include HER instead?).
I love Classic Sonic but they seriously need to stop using him as a Leg Crutch and shoving him down our throats.
Classic Sonic is not a character, he’s a marketing tool
Exactly.
Classic sonic is stuck in a time lapse, classic mania sonic went into a portal at the end of the game, then he gets to sonic forces, at the end of the game, he goes back to sonic mania, um unfortunately after that the same thing happened over and over again
He actually hasn't been in a separate dimension the whole time, I think when the Time Eater showed up it caused Classic Sonic to avoid his normal duties that the original timeline was still planning, causing the Timelines to split, as Modern Sonic wasn't effected by his Younger Self beating up Eggman and the Time Eater. I suck at explaining things but there you go.
this is called multiverse theory, and it's a reasonable explanation; another reason why i dont really care for the retcon
It was more because Classic Eggman saw where Modern Eggman went wrong and planned accordingly. That’s why Modern Sonic never experienced Mania and Classic Sonic never experienced Adventure and beyond
The joke is, the devs basically chose hardmode for themselves. They cannot focus on classic sonic too much, because that universe can only span 4 years inuniverse before people are justified in calling bullshit. Why? Well, ignoring that classic eggman only knows of the timeeater-plan from modern eggman from what we know(he does not even know who everyone is), not everything happening in the world is relying on him.
Black doom is still going to invade and characters like cream would still exist, just that she never met sonic. Chaos might very well still come back, even without eggmans help. Shadow still exists too and would likely be reawakened at the latest when black doom returns, which is when he would start the plan to take down earth by letting the ark fall.
Mephiles is the rare case where the modern concept cannot appear in the new timeline because 06 happens before the timelinesplit.
Edit:I forgot that secret rings and shuffle would also 100% happen because those have 0 things to do with eggman.
Any theory is in vane. For that would requirer to SEGA to think
@@lpfan4491 You realize Eggman could go a different way with each plan, right? That means he could release Shadow earlier than he was in the modern timeline. Also, even if there are predetermined things happening later on, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s still a new timeline and that everyone’s interactions will be different
imagine watching a new sonic frontiers trailer only to just see classic sonic again in the modern sonic world instead of mania 2
I think Classic Sonic was ok in Generations, I wish he could talk just like Classic Tails and Eggman but in Forces uhhh... no. (Also the Kingdom Hearts reference got me!)
"So there's the Classic dimension which has Green Hill and Chemical Plant, and the Modern dimension which has Green Hill and Chemical Plant!"
Seriously, to all the people at Sega who made this stupid retcon and all the sheep who mindlessly follow them, how does this not sound completely redundant and needlessly convoluted than it all just being one Sonic, one continuous narrative?
No matter how much they try to give some kind of in-game explanation for them, these changes are only being made to appease whiney fanboys who can't accept simple alterations like Sonic having green eyes!
Even worse, Classic Sonic stole Tails' and Knuckles' spotlight.
The reason why Classic Sonic never faced Infinite the Jackal (from Sonic Forces), because he's always focusing on Dr. Eggman and his evil plans even more. He doesn't care.
Even then, it went nowhere.
@@ChiefMedicPururu just pointless and redundant
@@Du-yw1pz Yes, it was.
5:43 the one who made the whole city burn and commited several multiple crimes, Santiago
I honestly loathe the entire existence of a 'Classic Sonic'. Not only does it needlessly split Sonic into two when it's supposed to be the same character, not to mention Classic Sonic doesn't look like that in the context of the universe, it's an artstyle and the classic look isn't what the characters look like canonically. Classic Sonic never talking when Sonic in general is a character that is known to be a wisecracker since the beginning, Sonic Team retconning the classic games being from another universe and not the past doesn't even make sense since the modern titles brought up events that happened in the classic games (Amy remembering what happened in CD during SA1 for an example) and it makes things more confusing esspically when Sonic referenced Generations when he sees Classic. Like this isn't Jay Gerrick and Barry Allen Sega! Not to mention this Generations-Forces desgin looks bad, the classic designs don't look very good in HD renders. It's fine if it's Sonic R or Sonic The Fighters since that polygonal look is more charming because of those imperfections but they do not work in HD. Like that's why they redsign the characters in the first place when the series transition into 3D. The classic look of the characters were never supposed to be in a modern game for crying out loud! It's esspically jarring for Classic to be next to the other Sonic making him look like a little kid when he's known to be a teenger. Here's my whole takeaway, 'Classic Sonic' is what Sega THINKS Sonic in the genesis was. I refuse to believe this 'Classic Sonic' in Generations-Forces is the same Sonic in the Genesis Era and Mania. The Real Classic Sonic is more or less the same Sonic we know today, 'Classic Sonic' is just some mute kid who kinda looks like Sonic.
Me too. Many other characters (even the hated ones) deserve to appear in games, but no, instead we get Classic Sonic, the #1 WORST Sonic character ever.
Santiago strikes again.
What does the city of Santiago have to do with this video ?
5:12-5:54 My exact reaction to the first Forces trailer
Same... Cri.
This was mine too. I wasn't mad, just disappointed.
I got pissed when I saw that scene. And I said to myself "You know what? This is going to suck!". And it happened.
No wonder Forces failed. Classic Sonic overstayed his welcome.
Now that I watched this, I wish that sometimes classic sonic had a voice and that attitude, and he and modern sonic would have friendly arguments about who is faster.
I even get frustrated when people try to make sense of Classic Sonic being both Sonic's past and a Sonic from another dimension, aka timeline, when in the meantime there are other fans who think those two concepts are ridiculous and make the lore too unpurposefully complicated. As if the fanbase wasn't already divided enough.
Granted, everyone has a right to their own opinion, but let's face it, if SEGA hadn't blown it by bringing Classic back for Forces, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
It would be easier if the next game not only didn't have Classic Sonic in it, but also made very little acknowledgement of the events in Generations and Forces. That way it would be plausible to think of it as a soft reboot to the Colors Era if we so wished.
On the retcon thing, the way I see it, Classic and Modern Sonic used to be the same until Eggman and the Time Eater screwed over the past, and with the past counterparts knowing new stuff (via Classic Sonic attempting to copy the Homing Attack and Classic Eggman swearing to never copy his future self's plans), keeping them the same would screw over the other Sonic games inbetween S3&K and Generations due to the new abilities and knowledge the past learned, so the only way to keep the canon stable to avoid plot holes as well as keep the new effects is to split them into two.
Agree
Here's How The Sonic Forces Chaos 0 Fight Should Go.
Tails Sees Chaos, That's Phase 1. After A Few Hits, Chaos Multiplies And Grabs Tails' Limbs. That's Where Classic Sonic Steps In And He Does Phase 2, Each Clone Takes One Hit, Once All The Chaos Is Defeated, The Fight Is Over.
i assumed the glitches were on purpose since they usually appeared when you were making fun of something lol
Technically no! - Classic Sonic's World Trivia: Ian Flynn has stated multiple times that this dimension is really just the past of the Modern characters. This was also implied in Tailstube #4, with the statement that time is in and of itself a dimension, and that Classic Sonic returns to his own time, not his own dimension.
So, it is confirmed that Classic Sonic is from the past and not from another dimension. The whole "Another Dimension" was just bad writing and technically he shouldn't have been in Sonic Forces to create all this confusion
Who remembers the glitched up Amy in the original upload
*4:24** this summed up the Santiago vs Classic Sonic shenanigans.*
9:20 It glitched still :/
But really, I could care less, GREAT VIDEO
What bothers me is that for people who grew up like me in the adventure to dark era we’re constantly force fed Classic Nostalgia like we grew up with it.
But when I think of Sonic I think of stuff like Sonic X and Heroes which were the first things I knew Sonic from and It feels like our memories of Sonic have just been swept aside to pander to fans of the older games.
Hopefully Frontiers can fix these issues and issue a balance for both Classic AND MODERN FANS of the franchise
If you think about it you really didn't need classic Sonic in Sonic forces
No shit Genius
Duh.
However, removing Classic Sonic from Forces also erases the entire game itself since Mania's finale had both him and the Phantom Ruby sucked in after the latter's power conflicted with the Chaos Emeralds.
_sonic jumps to his death_
"Yaaaay"
This video was EVERYTHING I thought of Classic Sonic! At this point, I'm actually starting to Believe that SEGA has a HUGE Hard-On for Classic Sonic, or at least there is someone on Sonic Team who is all "i DoNt LiKe ChAnGe!! EvErYtHiNg HaS tO sTaY tHe SaMe!!"
Hell--I bet even SONIC GENERATIONS would be better without Classic! All you have to do is just dump classic Sonic into a 2-D Plane and BOOM! PERFECT!
I've always seen the alternate dimension thing as making sense. At the end of Generations, Sonic and Tails go back to Green Hill Zone, presumably Sonic 1/2. But these 2 as well as Robotnik aren't the exact same as the ones we knew in the past. They have knowledge of the future in the past, which would make it an alternate timeline from the main series timeline. Eggman probably had different plans, hence Sonic Mania
Makes sense as Sonic and Tails did not recognize the Time Eater while Eggman used it despite what their classic versions know.
funny enough you call classic sonic a fake and well .... BEWARE THE SANTIAGO
Imagine if Mario games had "Mario" and "New Mario" as two separate characters
Yeah.
Classic is thick and is killing me he sat on poor chaos
I once thought about making a sonic game that uses the old style seen in Sonic 1 and Sonic CD's intro with third person 3D gameplay like more modern ones. But instead of using actual 3D models, every object in the game except for the floor is 2.5D. What is that, you may ask? It's the same kind of dimensions seen in doom or wolfenstein. Where the map itself is 3D but every object/character is made of flat sprites that follow the player but sometimes have multiple sprites for each direction a character is facing them when not dead. But those were usually only for the front, back, and sides of the character. What I had in mind was sonic and everything else would have TONS of sprites for exactly EVERY angle. It would be meant to give the player the illusion that they are in an actual 90s sonic cartoon. Each character (good or bad) would even have sprites for when looking at them at any angles from above or below. The sprites wouldn't be pixelated either. They would have smooth lines that look drawn in that semi anime style in the sonic cd intro. I was also thinking of giving the screen a VHS static effect too as well as a rewind sign and tracking if the player died. The only shadows in the game would be the ones on the ground below objects and characters. The music itself would have a very hard core 90s feel that is meant to bring back the kind of style seen in the first sonic game. As for the story, well I was thinking it would retell the story of the first sonic. Star Light zone would probably look amazing in 3D.
Let SEGA listen to your idea.
I don't mind his portrayal in Generations, and I agree it'd work fine if that was all we got. But then Forces happened and ruined Classic being used in the current age. He is TERRIBLE to have in Forces, as he not only was pointless, he took a boss away and made one character worse. It doesn't help they changed it from time travel to another dimension and it doesn't make sense and is absolutely stupid. This is just like the two worlds with humans, a lazy excuse to explain a different design and not think about the simplicities in time travel (like split timelines).
And Tails definitely should have been what we had in Forces, he could have been focused fully on gadgets and have his plot focus on how he has felt so useless lately and decides he finally needs to step up once more, like he used to. And Classic needs to be left out of new Modern titles, they can make all the fully Classic titles they want with him, but for the love of humanity keep him out of the modern games, they're not moving forward enough as is. If I see Classic Sonic in the next Modern game trailer, I'm going to lose my freaking mind. But if it's a Classic game with him in it, I'll be happy. Either way, he can still be here, but in his own lane.
Yeah and Classic Sonic's gameplay in Forces was just garbage. No physics, too many dash-pads and barren level design.
6:51 I just assumed Mania was the only one not canon in the main timeline and that it took place in this alternate dimension
But if I'm wrong and all the classic era games aren't canon does this mean I have to accept the Sonic 4 duology as the canon versions of Sonic 1 and 2
@@thesmilingman7576 no the classic era games still happened in the main timeline, but the Classic and Modern world are now separate worlds for whatever reason.
Beware the Santiago.
On this video...
There's the split timeline theory, where both Classic and Modern Sonic experienced 1, CD, 2, and 3&K, but the events of Generations affected a past Sonic and changed his future. While main Sonic experienced Sonic 4, Adventure, and onward, Classic experienced Mania.
One piece of evidence is the start of Generations. If there was no split timeline, then Sonic would have tried to attack the Time Eater differently as his past self encountered it. Another evidence is Tails not recognizing it as well when it emerges from the vortex at the start. Classic Tails encountered it, but for some reason, main Tails didn't at the start. Third would be Classic Eggman calling his modern counterpart's plan horrible, and a common belief was that he would not try to copy his modern self's plots, which leads to Mania instead of 4. And in a Forces prequel comic, Modern Eggman does not know the Phantom Ruby when it wound up in his front door, establishing that Classic's world is separate, yet the same via the Genesis games.