Ecellent contribution. Just wish there was as thorough and deep an exploration of this part of Aikido as there is on the Waza, on the part of serious students and teachers of the Art. A broader and deeper body of knowledge would allow us to compare and contrast many different "takes" on this dimension of understanding and appreciating O'Sensei point of view and his creative genius. In this vid, there is just no way to discern how much of this is O'Sensei and how much of this is Nadeau ... Just how accurately is Nadeau representing O'Sensei's cosmology? IMHO ... while Nadeau is a superb "exemplar" of the embodiment of mystical aspect of the Art, he is a poor teacher/coach who, despite his personal claims, is not articulate as a speaker nor clear as a writer. His ego-centrism and character flaws cannot countenance this reality, so he has never been able to team with those who are more developed and skilled as communicators to really refine the presentation of the message. BUT, in fairness, neither did O'Sensei. So, having this material is a good start. I'd just love to see people like Mr.'s Moon, Stevens, and Pranin collaborate to bring this material to light with their extraordinary talents as communicators.
+Taka Tsubasa Thank you for your comments. Much appreciated. I think it was a shame no one felt it appropriate to question o sensei and what he taught, not oppose, challenge meaning ask. In the spirit of "Aikido does not call relative affairs good or bad but keeps all beings in a constant of growth and development. " In his blog Chris Li quotes a student of the founder saying, "O sensei stated ' to do aikido, you must stand on the floating bridge of heaven' but we didn't know where it was or how to stand on it so we just put on a good face and kept applying techniques to each other." IMO more's the shame and now the old man is gone and all we can do is conjecture and explore. But Let's! As one of my senior and favorite training partners, David Brown once said, and i couldn't agree more, "The problem with most training Aikido as a martial art is; too much martial , not enough art. And i hope you'll forgive my poetic license in translating it from the english. Thank you again
+Taka Tsubasa You probably meant "excellent" contribution, but I wonder why you then argue against your assertion; can't really have it both ways mate. It's either excellent or inarticulate, poorly thought-out brimmed with echo. I'm really not sure what your beef with Robert Nadeau is, whether it's personal or if you just had a bad experience with him. I never met him. but based on his video's on TH-cam I wish I had a teacher like him around here in London. I think any teacher with first-hand experience of O-Sensei, however flawed, is to be treasured. Every teacher will obviously put his slant on Aikido. John Stevens-Sensei is influenced by Shirata-Sensei, as you probably know. So why you would suggest that someone else might be able to communicate a "more accurate" representation, is beyond me. But you are probably blessed with extra-ordinary skills yourself -since you seem to assert that O-Sensei wasn't a good teacher either. Plus you seem quite picky about who you think more qualified than Nadeau, none of them with first hand experience of O-Sensei and curiously none of them Japanese -or maybe not so curious. Mind you this is coming from someone who has studied with John Stevens Sensei and thinks that his books are a real gift. Wishing you all the best with your studies.
+honey bozo Just for the record:1. I began Aikido in 1971 under Nadeau.2. Nadeau was on the Examiner's Board for my Shodan and Nidan3. I received San Dan directky from him4. I have trained with and taken considerable ukemi from the likes of Koichi Tohei, Michio Hikitsuchi, Morihiro Saito, Mitsunari Kanai, Akira Tohei, Kazuo Chiba, Mistugi Saotome, Hiroshi Ikeda, several of the major Ki Society Sensei, Terry Dobson, and many, many fine American Aikidoka, yada yada ...Point is ... I've been around and seen some stuff.Doesn't make me 'right'. Doesn't make me 'wrong'. Just makes me 'me'.Just means that I have some knowledge about that of which I speak.Got a couple o' Dans in some other arts as well.I have taught Aikido at Stanford University, Cal Berkeley, the Esalen Institute, and have been invited to teach workshops in several countries in Europe over the course of my Martial Arts career.I majored in East Asian Studies and Religious Studies at Stanford University and was an active participant in the Zen Movement in the SF Bay Area in the 1970's. (SF Zen Center, Mountain View Zen Center, Tassajara Zent Retreat, Green Gulch Zen Farm). *Historical Note: Kobun Chino Sensei of the MV Zen Center was my Zazen Instructor and also was the person who married Steve Jobs and his wife.Again, no expert, but I've put in my time.While I make no claim to being anyone's 'final authorilty' in any discussion of these matters, I will take full advantage of the opportunity that Richard Moon Sensei has offered us with his TH-cam vids and his Extraordinary Listening Blog.*Historical Nate: Richard and I go back to the 1970's and have recently rekindled a wonderful and rich correspondence. He has always invited me (and everyone) to speak their truth forthrightly and unflinchingly in the interest of the pursuit of knowledge, truth, and connection.Oh, one more thing ... if you have ever seen the famous Aikido Poster titled "A Way To Reconcile The World" (photo by Jan Watson)... it's the one with the hands doing Kokyu Dosa ... I am the uke in the photo and my brother (4th Dan) is the nage. If you haven'tseen it, check out Terry Dobson's book, "It's A Lot Like Dancing" ... it's pretty cool.__________To your points and objections:1. Yes mate, I can, and often do have it 'both ways' in all manner of things in this life. No apologies, here. It's that yin-yang thing. I can, in fact, both compliment Richard for uploading an excellent video and still take issue with various items of its content.I can also add sincere praise and a lament (there's that 'both-ways' thing again) to the fact that so much more research, exploration, and interpretation into the non-physical and metaphysical aspects of Aikido has been lacking ... compared to the physical/waza and the historical aspects. This particular vid, taken at a Nadeau Retreat, is a wonderful starting off point for just such an exploration.Using a model like the one embodied by Stan Pranin of Aikido Journal, I would love to see such depth and breadth of scholarly and effort and informed opion in the domain of the spiritual. 2. Sorry mate, I do assert that O'Sensei was a poor teacher by modern western pedogogical standards. O"Sensei WAS a superb 'exemplar" but, by his own admission he said, "I have spent my entire life illluminating this path, yet when I lookj behind me, there is no one following." And, he also said, "I do not make a companion of men. I make a companion of God."In a fleshed-out pedagogical model, there are many avenues available for the transmission of knowledge, understanding, and functionjal skill:Exemplar - Traininer - Instructor - Coach - Mentor - Guru ... to name but a few.Each of these modalities represent different dynamics and defferent levels of commitment on the parts of both the one who transmits and the one who receives.Terry Dobson once told me that O'Sensei confessed to him, with a touch of sadness, that he (O'Sensei) was a poor administrator felt that this was something that he wished he were better at. But culture, tradition, and personality precluded it.3. IMHO, Aikidoka llike John Stevens, Stan Pranin, Richard Moon, Robert Frager, and several others have demonstrated their ability, over a very long time, to be very articulate speakers and writers. A Forum for the examination and discussion of these matters, monitored and edited by the likes of such men would, in my judegement, be extraordinary.P.S.:I have had the opportunity to meet, train under, and listen to John Stevens when he and Dr. Robert Frager (6th Dan) established the O"Sensei Archives at the Transpersonal Psycology Institute, several years ago. Had him autograph several of his books for me as well.P.S.S.:Yo, honey bozo, do me a favor, if you will, and spell check this for me. I gotta watch our for those dropped x's ... know what I mean.
+Taka Tsubasa Missing the points, pretty much entirely. Not just of the video above; also presumably of what Aikido is for and how to help further it's path of harmony plus the little I raised earlier. And this saddens me, because your "judegement and funtionjal skill" will influence others. Looking at your considerable experience and unwillingness to step outside your ego and let some kind of bigger harmony shine through; you're dodging your potential to lead by example. Obviously I'm not too surprised that you clashed with Nadeau and others, but I guess it's still not too late to change. You mention an extraordinary forum with others you admire -possibly this could be a start. Aikido ultimately is an individual journey. Really wishing you much more wisdom on that path.
I think we all aspire to be better communicators, teachers, and students, and what a better vehicle to improve all of these skills than with aikido. I agree that it is a shame that the most skilled practitioners, in almost every field, are not also the most skilled teachers in the subject. They say, "Those who cannot do, teach." and I wonder if the same can be said in the reverse--"Those who cannot teach, do." I know that for myself, I was never very good at the skills I pursued, whether it be chess, language, or music. But what I lack in personal skill, I make up for in my ability to identify other's misunderstandings and communicate on their level in a way that "gets through" to people where others are unable, understand their reason for learning, and use these to help them overcome their weaknesses in a way that leaves them unaware of the fact that they had a weakness. I think that, as has been mentioned, bringing together communicators, educators, students, and exemplars, is something that could organize education in all fields into an organic and inviting methodology, and I'm taking the steps to create a system that tries to accomplish this with an incentive driven community, learn -> improve -> teach -> repeat. Skills have ladders associated with them, ranking users in different ways like Skill level, Level of contribution to the knowledge base(content creation, like adding resources or sorting/rating content by skill level, 'fun', and effectiveness), time spent/ability to help others learn/stay motivated to learn. By climbing the skill trees you are interested in, skilled in, knowledgeable about, or simply by spending time helping the community grow, we earn credit that can be traded with others in exchange for their knowledge and time, allowing you to learn from an expert chess player, master musician, or even invest in your own skill tree by offering newcomers a "bounty" to be earned for learning that skill up to a determined level, so hearing an Aikido practitioner express his genuine concern on this specific disconnect means a lot to me. discord.gg/8byJTnH this is a link to the temporary home as I grow this community. I'm tentative about beginning the process of adding resources, because of my lack of experience, but I figure that starting somewhere won't hurt, and that should I find one interested individual of any skill level, both of us have nothing to lose and can only gain. I guess, should I be headed in the wrong direction, any Aikido practitioner will be able to determine my intent and guide my energy in the right direction xD. Thanks for your time if you made it to the end of this wall, I thank everyone in this somewhat heated discussion for their genuine concern, and I invite anybody who reads this drop in this discord chat server (you don't have to download anything) to guide, learn, and help the Aikido grow.
Man he covers so much yet explains so little. He leaves us with these terms like finer and heavier, manifest and hidden, "squared away", "getting your math right"... But what is the math were supposed to get right? What do you really mean by finer? More refined like metal? Or like finer like more fidelity or like a magnifier? What is the square that we get squared away with? Half answered spiritual guidance is a recipe for madness
Alan this is Kenneth (one of Bob's youtube staff/long time student). I have compiled a list of the videos where finer and manifest topics are the subject matter: studio.th-cam.com/users/videoZ8RKyxDsf5o/ on finer dimensions. And on Manifest and Hidden studio.th-cam.com/users/video4ntE9IpvY44/ th-cam.com/video/BSgIksORK5E/w-d-xo.html
Very nice. Enjoyed it. So good to have TH-cam and feel that you are there, even though you are a million miles away in Australia. Many thanks.
Nice. Many thanks for sharing. Paul in Western Australia
Paul this is Kenny. I can't thank you enough for all of the supportive feedback.
Wonderful! Thank you!
Thanks for making this video and posting it.
Thank you, Sensei.
Very interesting, thanks for posting Sensei
I love Nadeau..! 'It's sooo easy..' Gassho..
Ecellent contribution. Just wish there was as thorough and deep an exploration of this part of Aikido as there is on the Waza, on the part of serious students and teachers of the Art. A broader and deeper body of knowledge would allow us to compare and contrast many different "takes" on this dimension of understanding and appreciating O'Sensei point of view and his creative genius. In this vid, there is just no way to discern how much of this is O'Sensei and how much of this is Nadeau ... Just how accurately is Nadeau representing O'Sensei's cosmology? IMHO ... while Nadeau is a superb "exemplar" of the embodiment of mystical aspect of the Art, he is a poor teacher/coach who, despite his personal claims, is not articulate as a speaker nor clear as a writer. His ego-centrism and character flaws cannot countenance this reality, so he has never been able to team with those who are more developed and skilled as communicators to really refine the presentation of the message. BUT, in fairness, neither did O'Sensei. So, having this material is a good start. I'd just love to see people like Mr.'s Moon, Stevens, and Pranin collaborate to bring this material to light with their extraordinary talents as communicators.
+Taka Tsubasa
Thank you for your comments. Much appreciated. I think it was a shame no one felt it appropriate to question o sensei and what he taught, not oppose, challenge meaning ask. In the spirit of "Aikido does not call relative affairs good or bad but keeps all beings in a constant of growth and development. "
In his blog Chris Li quotes a student of the founder saying, "O sensei stated ' to do aikido, you must stand on the floating bridge of heaven' but we didn't know where it was or how to stand on it so we just put on a good face and kept applying techniques to each other."
IMO more's the shame and now the old man is gone
and all we can do is conjecture and explore.
But Let's!
As one of my senior and favorite training partners, David Brown once said, and i couldn't agree more,
"The problem with most training Aikido as a martial art is; too much martial , not enough art.
And i hope you'll forgive my poetic license in translating it from the english. Thank you again
+Taka Tsubasa You probably meant "excellent" contribution, but I wonder why you then argue against your assertion; can't really have it both ways mate. It's either excellent or inarticulate, poorly thought-out brimmed with echo.
I'm really not sure what your beef with Robert Nadeau is, whether it's personal or if you just had a bad experience with him. I never met him. but based on his video's on TH-cam I wish I had a teacher like him around here in London. I think any teacher with first-hand experience of O-Sensei, however flawed, is to be treasured.
Every teacher will obviously put his slant on Aikido. John Stevens-Sensei is influenced by Shirata-Sensei, as you probably know. So why you would suggest that someone else might be able to communicate a "more accurate" representation, is beyond me.
But you are probably blessed with extra-ordinary skills yourself -since you seem to assert that O-Sensei wasn't a good teacher either. Plus you seem quite picky about who you think more qualified than Nadeau, none of them with first hand experience of O-Sensei and curiously none of them Japanese -or maybe not so curious. Mind you this is coming from someone who has studied with John Stevens Sensei and thinks that his books are a real gift.
Wishing you all the best with your studies.
+honey bozo Just for the record:1. I began Aikido in 1971 under Nadeau.2. Nadeau was on the Examiner's Board for my Shodan and Nidan3. I received San Dan directky from him4. I have trained with and taken considerable ukemi from the likes of Koichi Tohei, Michio Hikitsuchi, Morihiro Saito, Mitsunari Kanai, Akira Tohei, Kazuo Chiba, Mistugi Saotome, Hiroshi Ikeda, several of the major Ki Society Sensei, Terry Dobson, and many, many fine American Aikidoka, yada yada ...Point is ... I've been around and seen some stuff.Doesn't make me 'right'. Doesn't make me 'wrong'. Just makes me 'me'.Just means that I have some knowledge about that of which I speak.Got a couple o' Dans in some other arts as well.I have taught Aikido at Stanford University, Cal Berkeley, the Esalen Institute, and have been invited to teach workshops in several countries in Europe over the course of my Martial Arts career.I majored in East Asian Studies and Religious Studies at Stanford University and was an active participant in the Zen Movement in the SF Bay Area in the 1970's. (SF Zen Center, Mountain View Zen Center, Tassajara Zent Retreat, Green Gulch Zen Farm). *Historical Note: Kobun Chino Sensei of the MV Zen Center was my Zazen Instructor and also was the person who married Steve Jobs and his wife.Again, no expert, but I've put in my time.While I make no claim to being anyone's 'final authorilty' in any discussion of these matters, I will take full advantage of the opportunity that Richard Moon Sensei has offered us with his TH-cam vids and his Extraordinary Listening Blog.*Historical Nate: Richard and I go back to the 1970's and have recently rekindled a wonderful and rich correspondence. He has always invited me (and everyone) to speak their truth forthrightly and unflinchingly in the interest of the pursuit of knowledge, truth, and connection.Oh, one more thing ... if you have ever seen the famous Aikido Poster titled "A Way To Reconcile The World" (photo by Jan Watson)... it's the one with the hands doing Kokyu Dosa ... I am the uke in the photo and my brother (4th Dan) is the nage. If you haven'tseen it, check out Terry Dobson's book, "It's A Lot Like Dancing" ... it's pretty cool.__________To your points and objections:1. Yes mate, I can, and often do have it 'both ways' in all manner of things in this life. No apologies, here. It's that yin-yang thing. I can, in fact, both compliment Richard for uploading an excellent video and still take issue with various items of its content.I can also add sincere praise and a lament (there's that 'both-ways' thing again) to the fact that so much more research, exploration, and interpretation into the non-physical and metaphysical aspects of Aikido has been lacking ... compared to the physical/waza and the historical aspects. This particular vid, taken at a Nadeau Retreat, is a wonderful starting off point for just such an exploration.Using a model like the one embodied by Stan Pranin of Aikido Journal, I would love to see such depth and breadth of scholarly and effort and informed opion in the domain of the spiritual. 2. Sorry mate, I do assert that O'Sensei was a poor teacher by modern western pedogogical standards. O"Sensei WAS a superb 'exemplar" but, by his own admission he said, "I have spent my entire life illluminating this path, yet when I lookj behind me, there is no one following." And, he also said, "I do not make a companion of men. I make a companion of God."In a fleshed-out pedagogical model, there are many avenues available for the transmission of knowledge, understanding, and functionjal skill:Exemplar - Traininer - Instructor - Coach - Mentor - Guru ... to name but a few.Each of these modalities represent different dynamics and defferent levels of commitment on the parts of both the one who transmits and the one who receives.Terry Dobson once told me that O'Sensei confessed to him, with a touch of sadness, that he (O'Sensei) was a poor administrator felt that this was something that he wished he were better at. But culture, tradition, and personality precluded it.3. IMHO, Aikidoka llike John Stevens, Stan Pranin, Richard Moon, Robert Frager, and several others have demonstrated their ability, over a very long time, to be very articulate speakers and writers. A Forum for the examination and discussion of these matters, monitored and edited by the likes of such men would, in my judegement, be extraordinary.P.S.:I have had the opportunity to meet, train under, and listen to John Stevens when he and Dr. Robert Frager (6th Dan) established the O"Sensei Archives at the Transpersonal Psycology Institute, several years ago. Had him autograph several of his books for me as well.P.S.S.:Yo, honey bozo, do me a favor, if you will, and spell check this for me. I gotta watch our for those dropped x's ... know what I mean.
+Taka Tsubasa Missing the points, pretty much entirely. Not just of the video above; also presumably of what Aikido is for and how to help further it's path of harmony plus the little I raised earlier.
And this saddens me, because your "judegement and funtionjal skill" will influence others. Looking at your considerable experience and unwillingness to step outside your ego and let some kind of bigger harmony shine through; you're dodging your potential to lead by example. Obviously I'm not too surprised that you clashed with Nadeau and others, but I guess it's still not too late to change.
You mention an extraordinary forum with others you admire -possibly this could be a start. Aikido ultimately is an individual journey.
Really wishing you much more wisdom on that path.
I think we all aspire to be better communicators, teachers, and students, and what a better vehicle to improve all of these skills than with aikido. I agree that it is a shame that the most skilled practitioners, in almost every field, are not also the most skilled teachers in the subject. They say, "Those who cannot do, teach." and I wonder if the same can be said in the reverse--"Those who cannot teach, do." I know that for myself, I was never very good at the skills I pursued, whether it be chess, language, or music. But what I lack in personal skill, I make up for in my ability to identify other's misunderstandings and communicate on their level in a way that "gets through" to people where others are unable, understand their reason for learning, and use these to help them overcome their weaknesses in a way that leaves them unaware of the fact that they had a weakness. I think that, as has been mentioned, bringing together communicators, educators, students, and exemplars, is something that could organize education in all fields into an organic and inviting methodology, and I'm taking the steps to create a system that tries to accomplish this with an incentive driven community, learn -> improve -> teach -> repeat. Skills have ladders associated with them, ranking users in different ways like Skill level, Level of contribution to the knowledge base(content creation, like adding resources or sorting/rating content by skill level, 'fun', and effectiveness), time spent/ability to help others learn/stay motivated to learn. By climbing the skill trees you are interested in, skilled in, knowledgeable about, or simply by spending time helping the community grow, we earn credit that can be traded with others in exchange for their knowledge and time, allowing you to learn from an expert chess player, master musician, or even invest in your own skill tree by offering newcomers a "bounty" to be earned for learning that skill up to a determined level, so hearing an Aikido practitioner express his genuine concern on this specific disconnect means a lot to me. discord.gg/8byJTnH this is a link to the temporary home as I grow this community. I'm tentative about beginning the process of adding resources, because of my lack of experience, but I figure that starting somewhere won't hurt, and that should I find one interested individual of any skill level, both of us have nothing to lose and can only gain. I guess, should I be headed in the wrong direction, any Aikido practitioner will be able to determine my intent and guide my energy in the right direction xD. Thanks for your time if you made it to the end of this wall, I thank everyone in this somewhat heated discussion for their genuine concern, and I invite anybody who reads this drop in this discord chat server (you don't have to download anything) to guide, learn, and help the Aikido grow.
Man he covers so much yet explains so little. He leaves us with these terms like finer and heavier, manifest and hidden, "squared away", "getting your math right"...
But what is the math were supposed to get right? What do you really mean by finer? More refined like metal? Or like finer like more fidelity or like a magnifier? What is the square that we get squared away with?
Half answered spiritual guidance is a recipe for madness
Alan this is Kenneth (one of Bob's youtube staff/long time student).
I have compiled a list of the videos where finer and manifest topics are the subject matter:
studio.th-cam.com/users/videoZ8RKyxDsf5o/ on finer dimensions.
And on Manifest and Hidden
studio.th-cam.com/users/video4ntE9IpvY44/
th-cam.com/video/BSgIksORK5E/w-d-xo.html
@@moonsensei much appreciated!
NO!!!!!!