The other problem is that given that most car buyers are not mechanics. The maintenance intervals published by the manufacturers are really goofy. And there is no good one among them,. They are all touting extended oil change intervals et cetera. Kind of hard to blame the customer if they're doing exactly what the book told them to do.
The 43psi was the give away. That's primary pump pressure. Also, I'm willing to bet the reason the psi was slowing going up, KOEO, was fuel percolating in the rail. I may not have looked at the roller/lifter cup either had I not been burned on a Ford 1.6 turbo that had erratic f/p due to a cracked lifter cup ( on the bottom, you had to take it out to see it) . As far as throwing a cat at it, if they suspected clogging, they could've simply removed a the upstream o2 or removed the cat itself and see if there was any change. $$ thrown at it..
The fact that it only showed primary pump pressure and the pump clicking had me screaming "CHECK THE FILTERS!" at first, thinking the pump was cavitating due to bad fuel flow which would have caused the ticking sound.
I know very little about GDI systems but based on watching other YT videos and knowing that maintenance is critical for the GDI pump, I was thinking worn cam. Well, then there's the roller follower and Boom! My 2020 RAV4 has GDI and PFI, but oil changes are at the top of the maintenance list! I'm into diagnose/repair avoidance by keeping up with Periodic Maintenance. Good one Ivan!
I find it hard to believe that somebody changed that high pressure pump 2 or 3 different times, and no one noticed the condition of that roller. Also, that thing sounded pretty bad before you took it out. I guess it's hard to know for sure until you've been the tech in that position though. I will definitely remember this for any future direct injection diagnostics. I imagine it takes a good bit of force to drive that high pressure pump, considering the high pressures needed in the rail to overcome the cylinder pressures. I think if i were going to engineer a direct injection system, I think I'd use some type of dual lobe setup to help spread the pressure out over a wider area, make it a little easier on the pump and camshaft lobe that has to drive it.
You really educated us old-timers with this one, Ivan. I'm not too familiar with the high pressure fuel pump mechanisms since I have avoided GDI for the intake valve carbonizing issue. So hard to keep up with all the new innovations that keep coming out.
Iv run my own shop for 5 years. 1 man show and I am self taught off TH-cam thanks to Ivan and gang. I have done 60 timing chains in these junk 2.4... 3 in 1 week and 2 were same color car. Gm I4 and v6 I recommend 3k interval due to they are garbage.
I just had a low pressure code come up last night right after firing my 2014 up after changing the oil. Cranked for ever and ran like crap with reduced engine power message but also a service stabilitrak message. P0092 and P00C6. Shut it down and restarted and it’s fine. Cleared the codes and none since. I’ve got 205,00 miles on it but it runs like a clock. Oil change every 5K since I bought it at 69,000 miles. Other than the intake gasket, coolant tank and VVT solenoids, she’s been perfect. Shifts can be a bit “crisp” here and there but at 205k, she could blow up tomorrow and it still would have been a good car for as many miles as I got out of it. Even the front end is still tight and not worn out. Never thought I’d see this much good service from an ecotec 2.4 but here we are.
"Something is wrong here". 👍 In 2011 2.4 Ecotec engine went to low tension oil rings that caused them to burn excessive oil. Supposedly they addressed the issue with 2013± engines but failure to change the oil every 5000 miles pretty much guarantees the oil rings will seize resulting in excessive oil loss, even though the oil level tends to remain constant due to oil dilution.
dealing with this very thing on my 2010. such a nightmare of a vehicle to own. should have done my research before letting the girlfriend decide to get it. lesson learned!
After 2013 they did use different rings, higher tension, but people don't take care of them. Even the 3000 mile oil change intervals are too long! When the oil monitor says 20% left you change it! Mobile one synthetic dextos additive. You never let the level drop not even a bit! I have seen 2015 2.4 l with over 200,000 miles and they were fine no timing chain changed. But if you live were it's really cold you need to vented oil filler cap incase the PVC system freezes and blows the rear main engine seal!
One trick that you can do to test the high pressure fuel sensor is to just test it on the low range, e.g. let all the pressure out and then see if it follows the low pressure. It won't give you a measurement on the actual working area but at least you know it is correct in the 0 to 5 bar region.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics cam followers fail. Should be replaced @ 100k. They are small, and delicate. How many engine revolutions they have at 100k? 2006-08 VW had crappiest design for follower, no roller, just relying on oil lube.
I had an 18 Ford Escape a few months ago, similar issue. They didn't change to oil in a very long time. Wound up eating a hole right through the high pressure fuel pump tappet. I replaced the pump and the tappet and it did run a whole lot better. Unfortunately, the cam was badly damaged and the engine was burning through a lot of oil. Oil level had dropped 1 quart in about an hour of it running and wasn't leaking a drop. I had no other option then to just replace the engine.
I once left the pump lifter out on one of these during an engine job and created similar conditions for myself. Took me a few hours to figure out, but it i thought of that immediately after getting into this video! Great one.
Damn good troubleshooting! I am a retired avionics technician. This is very similar to how we T/S aircraft. Back to the car I think that timing chain is very near jumping a tooth. I have a 2016 Equinox and it doesn't burn oil and it doesn't rattle the valve cover like that either.
Ivan ,I've fixed dozens of these for timing chains sawing thru guides to camshaft fuelpump lobe wiped out to broken exhaust cat manifolds to internal waterpump ! Check all TSBs on these !
I just replaced one of these high pressure fuel pumps last week. Procedure has you remove that follower and insert a tool to verify cam is on the base circle before installing the new pump or you can damage it.
Thanks for posting this. Having a similar condition on mine. Timing chain is ready to be replaced but the cam phasers and crank timing are still happy. It has been making a dieseling sound at start up for about 15 seconds emanating from the drivers side then it subsides. Now it gives reduced power and wont rev above 3000 rpm. No codes to speak of other than misfires on all 4 cylinders above the 3000 rpm level. Im going to check this out this weekend
After watching many of your vids, I now know what to look for on my diesel Transit van. Crap ebay sensors removed, garage fitted, now got oem fitted, it now idles. Found butchered nuts on egr valve, so at sometime thats tried to be looked at. Great vids, love to see you work on Ford Transit diesel van.
That much noise from the high pressure pump area got a huge oof from me and I started yelling something mechanical is broken! Fuel pump powered from a camshaft. Everything old is new again! They are lucky the camshaft wasn't damaged and needing replacement.
Great job, thanks! The way I try to verify the high side pressure is to check low side with a gauge and with the high side not running see if the sensor matches what the low side is. Some cars have a low side sensor also (eg. Toyota) so those you can just compare low side sensor to the high side sensor.
Wow I guess the fuel pump roller isn't on the DTC list. It also had a circuit performance code so hopefully that was just the am pump. Nice work Ivan it can be a ride following up others handy work.
Nice job Ivan!!! As always!!!! Pleasure watching you work it!!! Why should the customer pay for all the mistakes in parts that that shop made I would want my money back… Just saying…
reco is to replace follower when replacing a $900.00 H.P. pump, $30.00 extra .I have an infinity qx80 and service manual calls for that as well as new seals and copper washers on l.p. banjo fitting, many brands have follower failure at the cam side as well as the pump to follower side
Good job. This gave me flashbacks of my first run in with a HP fuel pump follower. My was missing because the tech forgot to put it back when the head gasket was replaced. Drove me nuts and took a week to figure out, but learned a lot a long the way.
I’m actually really surprised the engine ran at all with no high pressure. I would have assumed the injectors would not let enough gas through at that pressure.
I'm surprised that Ivan didn't check the injector pulse width to verify if the fuel pressure was actually low, or that it was a high rail pressure with an erroneous sensor. That would have thrown the injector command timings (and the fuel trims) way off.
So I own a 2014 terrain. I bought it with crashed valves. Rebuilt it with all OEM parts except pistons and rings. New chains phasers solenoids pistons rings high pressure fuel pump. After 3500 miles it spun rod bearing. Fuel from ac Delco hofp leaked fuel into oil.
I’ve actually seen where that roller that sits underneath those high-pressure fuel pumps. They will eat away at the cam lobe if it’s gone way too long you’ll have to replace the cam because it’ll create a flat spot on it. I’m not sure if you’ve seen that.
I ALWAYS change the follower with a new hpfp. Failure of them can be catastrophic and for an extra $25-50 its cheap insurance. Vw had a lot of issues with the followers coming apart and destroying the camshaft
Sometimes you amaze me... This is an example, such a simple deal, I don't blame you for overlooking the roller, heck I would have assumed they checked that!
The bashed out roller would also explain the jerky cam phasing, since there would be particles of that roller all over the oil system, and possibly clogging up the cam phasors (unless they're completely electrical). I still remember your videos on the Ecotec control solenoid screens causing more problems than they fix. So an oil system flush may even be in order.
Great video learned about gdi.i have seen a similar vehicle with symptoms including loud noise from area of hp pump.decided to pass on diagnosis -repair because customer had already tried to stiff me in past.the lesson I came away with from this video is don't forget to pay attention to your senses,hearing in this case (follow the noise).
My ex has a 2014 Terrain - same engine - she had a ton of vvt solenoid codes. I cleaned them and did oil change for her trying to be the nice guy. A few months later she couldn't get moving and apparently had check engine for a while ....I suspected high pressure pump. Turns out dealership changed the pump and timing chain. This engine in your video sounded awful! not a normal sound for sure!
Great video, diagnosis without understanding these systems is almost impossible. I currently have a 2014 equinox 3.6l with a p0192 fuel rail pressure sensor low voltage code. I can get it running by unplugging the sensor and plugging it back in, wiring checks out, has 5 volt ref, 12 volts ground and 4.4 return to sensor. The desired fuel rail pressure is 0, any insight on wiring or what controls the desired would be greatly appreciated
Once again, all the electronic testing for the computer controlled system and it was a hard part failure all along. Just like the bad gasoline vids. Nothing can replace old school thinking. Modern day vehicles are complete throw away garbage. My dad was an old school mechanic from the 50's up through the early 90's. He got pissed off when the QuadraJet carb went to electronic mixture control solenoids in the early 80's. He didn't want to keep up with the ECM stuff. You are damn good Ivan. I wish you were closer to me though. Lol!!
The pico WPS600C can measure up to 8,700 psig... perhaps with the right adapter / t-fitting kit, this tool would help verify whether or not the hi-pressure fuel rail sensor is lying or not.
Had one of these similar situations, forget the model year, but the high pressure pump has a little button that fits on the pump that fell off and wouldn't allow any fuel pressure to build. Wasn't even contacting the cam.
Brilliant as always! Can I ask from a business standpoint, how does it work when you got to the point of telling them they needed to swap back to a genuine hp pump? That would not be cheap. Doubt they would be able to return the aftermarket one too. And although an educated one. You were technically firing the parts cannon without definitive proof. Ultimately, it was no high pressure being produced but it wasn't the aftermarket pump/pressure sensor at fault. How do you approach the shop on that, back when you were suggesting replacing it? Yes they missed the initial and actual cause. But the part the fitted wasn't faulty either. Now they're wearing the cost of a 2nd pump that wasn't required off your recommendation. Not criticism, genuinely trying to learn how you deal with these situations.
Yup valid question.There is always a balance. At times when aftermarket critical components are installed, it's cheaper to install the OEM than to pay for more diag time to 100% condemn the aftermarket part. Once that is ruled out, then makes my job easier :)
I have seen a few of these with bad followers for the pump but also the pumps leaking fuel into the engine causing rich codes, I have not had one that was out of time that did not have cam crank correlation codes YET, great point about the cam timing being off causing low fuel pressure, we should just go back to carburators 😂 thanks EPA.
Yikes.. I'm surprised it wasn't making more noise. I still wish I knew how the high pressure regulator works on these, and whether it's built into the pump or not. I think I'm going to look up a few direct injection diag videos, and see how it all works. It still has a few mysteries for me.
They are fairly simple, at least conceptually. It's a reciprocating (piston) type pump and the inlet valve is solenoid controlled. The valve opening is synchronised to the cam position. Pressure control works somewhat like the intake valve in an Atkinson cycle engine, to reduce pump flow (and therefore pressure for a given demand) the inlet valve is closed later, allowing some of the fuel in the cylinder to be returned back to the fuel supply rather than being compressed and pushed into the fuel rail. The later the valve is closed, the lower the fuel flow.
@@ferrumignisif the solenoid or circuit fails does the pressure go excessive or possibly hydro lock ? Thanks for the explanation. I’m retired after 45 yr career. GDI was still new when I retired so it’s a new system for me.
Just started watching. I'm thinking maybe a blocked cat? Check the exhaust pressure at the manifold and after the pre-cat. Burning oil issues (maybe) and no power = blocked cat.
I had this issue on my 2015 Chevy Equinox. After cleaning the throttle body every oil change, The reduced engine speed never came back. Sometimes the carbon built up doesn't let the plate close fully.
My 2011 is running rough rn had a cheap orileys yesterday on it an throttle body cam shaft an crank sensor codes came up so reduced light is on it has 235000 miles I hope it didn't jump time I need a couple more months out of it
That's the detail we will likely never learn. The shop is unlikely to eat the cost of their mistakes claiming that "the cat would die prematurely so replacement was necessary" or some such. This is why I fix my own cars.
Just started the video but I'm going to guess that there is a timing problem due to oil pressure issues though I would like to see what the fuel alcohol sensor is saying as it will cause all these same symptoms if it does the error and gets stuck with a false reading of high alcohol content and when it does it it's dumping pretty much double the amount of fuel than it needs on regular gas. Disconnect the battery or if there's a way to reset with the scan tool reset it and the problem goes away
It must be almost harder for Ivan that people tell him “we checked this and we did that.” If it came to him at the start I’m sure he would have removed that fuel pump in his first diagnosis and found the follower.
The fuel pump was really noisy! They are lucky the camshaft was okay still think that it was not starting like it should my 2015 equinox instantly fires up!
So fun little fact at least with the GM GDI systems they seem to be able to build fuel pressure in the rail with the key off so long as the engine is hot. I'd assume it has to do with ambient temp fuel being warmed up to engine temp while sitting causing some expansion leading to pressure increase. I've used this fact to test for a DI injector leaking before. I'd also figure this to be true for more than just GM but I've yet to confirm that
Number of people i've spoken over tim e who say they cant afford oil changes.. - "I saying to them ""Engine oil $50- new engine $5,000""... make your choice!"
Hi sir hey I have similar problem but reverse please help 2012 terrain 2.4 eco fuel rail pressure to high! originally no info about car, came in no start timing broke, new timing/phasers/solenoids/high pressure pump, will replace sensor on rail soon maybe will help, but symptoms very tricky, on cold start all perfect problem starts after good warm-up cold start reassure perfect, after warm-up up to 2000psi if give a more gas pedal more RPM all levels up pressure desired and actual are matched just on regular start at low RPM from 600-800 engine having same issue like on your video and eventually stops running on it's own please give advice?
Wheres the Fowler thing ive had that pump out 3 times and done that sensor on the rail underthe intake twice thing wont even stsrt now after 1k of maintenance later
Would the camshaft be trashed from the bad roller? One could see the camshaft through the hole, just move the crankshaft with a big wrench. When the original HPFP was changed, the tech should have taken a minute to inspect the roller, clean it, and bathe it in oil IMHO.
Have a family member that has a problem with her equinox they fix wires going to that switch but used different sizes wire but they did solder the wires and it fixed the problem for two weeks now its doing the same thing ? Codes are different then yours but it is a 2012 . Now it has same codes three in witch are double, P228C, P0090, P00C8, P2431, ?
Roller followers are fine, less friction and all...until they fail! I will bet the cam has some wear on that lobe too, but at least the engine runs properly now.
My 2018 GDI chevy cruze runs in the mid to high hundreds at idle and will go to almost 2000psi under load For rail fuel pressure and i put gas in the tank i dont run around on empty
What if you manually increase voltage of pressure sensor until desired and actual matches. Then control signal to HP pump would decrease. If pressure is actually low car would start to run worse as you increse sensor voltage. Can this method be used to prove indirectly that pressure is actually low?
In your video with equinox fuel pressure problem you said customer had hp fuel pump installed but he didn't check the follower. How come you didn't check follower before putting a hp fuel pump on?
Would it be safe to assume the rich condition is due to a lack of fuel atomization? Fuel trims were pulled way back, so I don't think it was calling for long injector pulses to compensate for low pressure. Just curious how a rich condition happens with abnormally low pressure.. one would assume it would lean out. Unless the droplets are so large from low pressure that they don't burn well.
I have this problem put new fuel pump new fuel pressure pump new fuel pressures sensors and still the same problem. It drives but then I get the message engine power reduce and starts acting up. Idk what to do at this point My roller looks ok. 😩😩
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Ya poor customer hopefully they'll say they got you into fixes and not claim they fixed the problem and get all the praise.
Got 98% on my auto electrical exam . I think your channel gives me the edge over my classmates 😂
Congratulations 🎉
I'd call it cheating, except anyone can watch and learn.
😂😅😂😅😂😅😂 😊
If you pause every 10 questions and say, "that's insane" - it helps, I don't know why
Well done. Now remember your ethics as you travel your career path. There will be many pressures for you to put them to the side.
Awesome score dude, congrats! Ivan is one heck of a good influence.
Good find. These 2.4s need 3K oil changes and level topped off every 1000 miles or you'll have premature failure on timing components, etc.
I take it you are of the mindset that these GM Ecotec engines WILL NOT tolerate skipped maintenance. Great video!
Yep! Same on all of them! 3.6v6 especially. The 1.4 turbo... well... junk! LOL
The other problem is that given that most car buyers are not mechanics. The maintenance intervals published by the manufacturers are really goofy. And there is no good one among them,. They are all touting extended oil change intervals et cetera. Kind of hard to blame the customer if they're doing exactly what the book told them to do.
Gm doesnt tolerate good engineering
@@stevewhite3424 BOOM Exactly!
@@stevewhite3424 Hmmm- could that be intentional so the cars fail and then the owner will buy another one?
The 43psi was the give away. That's primary pump pressure. Also, I'm willing to bet the reason the psi was slowing going up, KOEO, was fuel percolating in the rail. I may not have looked at the roller/lifter cup either had I not been burned on a Ford 1.6 turbo that had erratic f/p due to a cracked lifter cup ( on the bottom, you had to take it out to see it) . As far as throwing a cat at it, if they suspected clogging, they could've simply removed a the upstream o2 or removed the cat itself and see if there was any change. $$ thrown at it..
The fact that it only showed primary pump pressure and the pump clicking had me screaming "CHECK THE FILTERS!" at first, thinking the pump was cavitating due to bad fuel flow which would have caused the ticking sound.
I know very little about GDI systems but based on watching other YT videos and knowing that maintenance is critical for the GDI pump, I was thinking worn cam. Well, then there's the roller follower and Boom!
My 2020 RAV4 has GDI and PFI, but oil changes are at the top of the maintenance list!
I'm into diagnose/repair avoidance by keeping up with Periodic Maintenance.
Good one Ivan!
I find it hard to believe that somebody changed that high pressure pump 2 or 3 different times, and no one noticed the condition of that roller. Also, that thing sounded pretty bad before you took it out. I guess it's hard to know for sure until you've been the tech in that position though. I will definitely remember this for any future direct injection diagnostics. I imagine it takes a good bit of force to drive that high pressure pump, considering the high pressures needed in the rail to overcome the cylinder pressures. I think if i were going to engineer a direct injection system, I think I'd use some type of dual lobe setup to help spread the pressure out over a wider area, make it a little easier on the pump and camshaft lobe that has to drive it.
You really educated us old-timers with this one, Ivan. I'm not too familiar with the high pressure fuel pump mechanisms since I have avoided GDI for the intake valve carbonizing issue. So hard to keep up with all the new innovations that keep coming out.
Iv run my own shop for 5 years. 1 man show and I am self taught off TH-cam thanks to Ivan and gang. I have done 60 timing chains in these junk 2.4... 3 in 1 week and 2 were same color car. Gm I4 and v6 I recommend 3k interval due to they are garbage.
I just had a low pressure code come up last night right after firing my 2014 up after changing the oil. Cranked for ever and ran like crap with reduced engine power message but also a service stabilitrak message. P0092 and P00C6. Shut it down and restarted and it’s fine. Cleared the codes and none since. I’ve got 205,00 miles on it but it runs like a clock. Oil change every 5K since I bought it at 69,000 miles. Other than the intake gasket, coolant tank and VVT solenoids, she’s been perfect. Shifts can be a bit “crisp” here and there but at 205k, she could blow up tomorrow and it still would have been a good car for as many miles as I got out of it. Even the front end is still tight and not worn out. Never thought I’d see this much good service from an ecotec 2.4 but here we are.
Great video, Ivan. You have some great troubleshooting skills. I enjoy your videos. I'm a retired auto tech after 40 years .
"Something is wrong here". 👍 In 2011 2.4 Ecotec engine went to low tension oil rings that caused them to burn excessive oil. Supposedly they addressed the issue with 2013± engines but failure to change the oil every 5000 miles pretty much guarantees the oil rings will seize resulting in excessive oil loss, even though the oil level tends to remain constant due to oil dilution.
Very good tip!
dealing with this very thing on my 2010. such a nightmare of a vehicle to own. should have done my research before letting the girlfriend decide to get it. lesson learned!
After 2013 they did use different rings, higher tension, but people don't take care of them. Even the 3000 mile oil change intervals are too long! When the oil monitor says 20% left you change it! Mobile one synthetic dextos additive. You never let the level drop not even a bit! I have seen 2015 2.4 l with over 200,000 miles and they were fine no timing chain changed. But if you live were it's really cold you need to vented oil filler cap incase the PVC system freezes and blows the rear main engine seal!
called it at the beginning,had a mechanic actually leave that out doing head on a 2.4 and couldn't figure out why it had low pressure at rail code.
The shoot from the hip diagnostics scares me when I have to take my car into the shop because of what happened on this car.
Indeed.
One trick that you can do to test the high pressure fuel sensor is to just test it on the low range, e.g. let all the pressure out and then see if it follows the low pressure. It won't give you a measurement on the actual working area but at least you know it is correct in the 0 to 5 bar region.
Weird case, superb diagnostic, Ivan! In the end I would call part of the fault on customer - running low on oil is probably what destroyed the roller.
Perhaps... That quart of oil on the floor was very suspicious lol
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics cam followers fail. Should be replaced @ 100k. They are small, and delicate. How many engine revolutions they have at 100k? 2006-08 VW had crappiest design for follower, no roller, just relying on oil lube.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Yep 🙂
Maybe he keeps oil handy so he can keep it at the right level.
@@rafalk964 Yep, but it surely had been clacking for a while. That should alert user for a possible mechanical trouble.
I had an 18 Ford Escape a few months ago, similar issue. They didn't change to oil in a very long time. Wound up eating a hole right through the high pressure fuel pump tappet. I replaced the pump and the tappet and it did run a whole lot better. Unfortunately, the cam was badly damaged and the engine was burning through a lot of oil. Oil level had dropped 1 quart in about an hour of it running and wasn't leaking a drop. I had no other option then to just replace the engine.
Holy crap 1qt per hour?? 😳
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Yeah. She was smoking like a train from the tail pipe. I was hoping that it would clear up. But it never did.
I once left the pump lifter out on one of these during an engine job and created similar conditions for myself. Took me a few hours to figure out, but it i thought of that immediately after getting into this video! Great one.
But did they look at the cam lobe that drives the pump?
Called it! I just had a GMC Terrain with this same issue the cam lobe was completely trashed too
This was a common problem in the early VW GDI engines, they trashed lifters and cams for a pastime.
Not fixed still have engine light and stabilizer mode on
Damn good troubleshooting! I am a retired avionics technician. This is very similar to how we T/S aircraft. Back to the car I think that timing chain is very near jumping a tooth. I have a 2016 Equinox and it doesn't burn oil and it doesn't rattle the valve cover like that either.
Ivan ,I've fixed dozens of these for timing chains sawing thru guides to camshaft fuelpump lobe wiped out to broken exhaust cat manifolds to internal waterpump ! Check all TSBs on these !
I would be livid if I were that customer. Now, how honest is that shop going to be with the customer? Great diagnosis and fix Ivan.
They are actually a very honest shop and the lot is always full. Maybe next time they will call me BEFORE the parts cannon is loaded up haha
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Let's hope Ivan. I just feel bad that this customer is stuck with that hefty bill.
I just replaced one of these high pressure fuel pumps last week. Procedure has you remove that follower and insert a tool to verify cam is on the base circle before installing the new pump or you can damage it.
Thanks for posting this. Having a similar condition on mine. Timing chain is ready to be replaced but the cam phasers and crank timing are still happy. It has been making a dieseling sound at start up for about 15 seconds emanating from the drivers side then it subsides. Now it gives reduced power and wont rev above 3000 rpm. No codes to speak of other than misfires on all 4 cylinders above the 3000 rpm level. Im going to check this out this weekend
After watching many of your vids, I now know what to look for on my diesel Transit van.
Crap ebay sensors removed, garage fitted, now got oem fitted, it now idles.
Found butchered nuts on egr valve, so at sometime thats tried to be looked at.
Great vids, love to see you work on Ford Transit diesel van.
The parts Cannon was insane on this one. I really hope the customer isn't charged for all that.
Wrong !
Customer always pays for parts and labor.
@@CXensation yep.
That much noise from the high pressure pump area got a huge oof from me and I started yelling something mechanical is broken! Fuel pump powered from a camshaft. Everything old is new again! They are lucky the camshaft wasn't damaged and needing replacement.
Great job, thanks! The way I try to verify the high side pressure is to check low side with a gauge and with the high side not running see if the sensor matches what the low side is. Some cars have a low side sensor also (eg. Toyota) so those you can just compare low side sensor to the high side sensor.
I'm 5.5 hours away from You. If I ever get a gremlin I can't fix I know who to bring it to!
Wow I guess the fuel pump roller isn't on the DTC list. It also had a circuit performance code so hopefully that was just the am pump. Nice work Ivan it can be a ride following up others handy work.
Nice job Ivan!!!
As always!!!! Pleasure watching you work it!!!
Why should the customer pay for all the mistakes in parts that that shop made I would want my money back…
Just saying…
reco is to replace follower when replacing a $900.00 H.P. pump, $30.00 extra .I have an infinity qx80 and service manual calls for that as well as new seals and copper washers on l.p. banjo fitting, many brands have follower failure at the cam side as well as the pump to follower side
Good job as always Ivan.
Good job. This gave me flashbacks of my first run in with a HP fuel pump follower.
My was missing because the tech forgot to put it back when the head gasket was replaced.
Drove me nuts and took a week to figure out, but learned a lot a long the way.
Loving the recent content Ivan, keep up the great work. Best wishes from the UK.
I’m actually really surprised the engine ran at all with no high pressure. I would have assumed the injectors would not let enough gas through at that pressure.
I'm surprised that Ivan didn't check the injector pulse width to verify if the fuel pressure was actually low, or that it was a high rail pressure with an erroneous sensor. That would have thrown the injector command timings (and the fuel trims) way off.
So I own a 2014 terrain. I bought it with crashed valves. Rebuilt it with all OEM parts except pistons and rings. New chains phasers solenoids pistons rings high pressure fuel pump. After 3500 miles it spun rod bearing. Fuel from ac Delco hofp leaked fuel into oil.
Bummer
I’ve actually seen where that roller that sits underneath those high-pressure fuel pumps. They will eat away at the cam lobe if it’s gone way too long you’ll have to replace the cam because it’ll create a flat spot on it. I’m not sure if you’ve seen that.
When it stalled the first time it was running it was looking for 2175psi!
I ALWAYS change the follower with a new hpfp. Failure of them can be catastrophic and for an extra $25-50 its cheap insurance. Vw had a lot of issues with the followers coming apart and destroying the camshaft
Sometimes you amaze me... This is an example, such a simple deal, I don't blame you for overlooking the roller, heck I would have assumed they checked that!
Another great video! Love learning with each new video.
The bashed out roller would also explain the jerky cam phasing, since there would be particles of that roller all over the oil system, and possibly clogging up the cam phasors (unless they're completely electrical). I still remember your videos on the Ecotec control solenoid screens causing more problems than they fix. So an oil system flush may even be in order.
the phasers on this im fairly certain are hydraulically driven using a solenoid to regulate the pressure and therefore the distance traveled.
Great video learned about gdi.i have seen a similar vehicle with symptoms including loud noise from area of hp pump.decided to pass on diagnosis -repair because customer had already tried to stiff me in past.the lesson I came away with from this video is don't forget to pay attention to your senses,hearing in this case (follow the noise).
My ex has a 2014 Terrain - same engine - she had a ton of vvt solenoid codes. I cleaned them and did oil change for her trying to be the nice guy. A few months later she couldn't get moving and apparently had check engine for a while ....I suspected high pressure pump. Turns out dealership changed the pump and timing chain. This engine in your video sounded awful! not a normal sound for sure!
Great video, diagnosis without understanding these systems is almost impossible. I currently have a 2014 equinox 3.6l with a p0192 fuel rail pressure sensor low voltage code. I can get it running by unplugging the sensor and plugging it back in, wiring checks out, has 5 volt ref, 12 volts ground and 4.4 return to sensor. The desired fuel rail pressure is 0, any insight on wiring or what controls the desired would be greatly appreciated
Once again, all the electronic testing for the computer controlled system and it was a hard part failure all along. Just like the bad gasoline vids. Nothing can replace old school thinking. Modern day vehicles are complete throw away garbage. My dad was an old school mechanic from the 50's up through the early 90's. He got pissed off when the QuadraJet carb went to electronic mixture control solenoids in the early 80's. He didn't want to keep up with the ECM stuff. You are damn good Ivan. I wish you were closer to me though. Lol!!
The pico WPS600C can measure up to 8,700 psig... perhaps with the right adapter / t-fitting kit, this tool would help verify whether or not the hi-pressure fuel rail sensor is lying or not.
Here is a TH-cam video of a gauge kit designed for testing GDI high pressure systems. th-cam.com/video/tt1o_RiwKX4/w-d-xo.html
I was looking for something worthy to watch and this video appeared! Perfect timing, as I just got home.
Had one of these similar situations, forget the model year, but the high pressure pump has a little button that fits on the pump that fell off and wouldn't allow any fuel pressure to build. Wasn't even contacting the cam.
Brilliant as always!
Can I ask from a business standpoint, how does it work when you got to the point of telling them they needed to swap back to a genuine hp pump? That would not be cheap. Doubt they would be able to return the aftermarket one too. And although an educated one. You were technically firing the parts cannon without definitive proof.
Ultimately, it was no high pressure being produced but it wasn't the aftermarket pump/pressure sensor at fault. How do you approach the shop on that, back when you were suggesting replacing it?
Yes they missed the initial and actual cause. But the part the fitted wasn't faulty either. Now they're wearing the cost of a 2nd pump that wasn't required off your recommendation.
Not criticism, genuinely trying to learn how you deal with these situations.
Yup valid question.There is always a balance. At times when aftermarket critical components are installed, it's cheaper to install the OEM than to pay for more diag time to 100% condemn the aftermarket part. Once that is ruled out, then makes my job easier :)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics great point. I hadn't considered that cost:benefit ratio. Cheers for the response and all the knowledge you share!
WOW Ivan! That shop must feel really bad! Great work on this diagnosis. I was really thinking about this one since all the data did not make sense.
Great video Ivan as always it's the little things can and does drive me crazy at times like overlooking something.
Once I saw the condition of the roller and the noise along with the low pressure I got it. But not until 😂 great job Ivan
I did this to myself changing my fuel pump for a no start issue when it was the fuel pump driver (fancy relay) that was bad. Damn you parts cannon!
I have seen a few of these with bad followers for the pump but also the pumps leaking fuel into the engine causing rich codes, I have not had one that was out of time that did not have cam crank correlation codes YET, great point about the cam timing being off causing low fuel pressure, we should just go back to carburators 😂 thanks EPA.
I'm impressed the DI runs at all without the hp pump!
Yikes.. I'm surprised it wasn't making more noise.
I still wish I knew how the high pressure regulator works on these, and whether it's built into the pump or not.
I think I'm going to look up a few direct injection diag videos, and see how it all works. It still has a few mysteries for me.
I'll be joining you. I already know to steer clear of CVT transmissions.
They are fairly simple, at least conceptually. It's a reciprocating (piston) type pump and the inlet valve is solenoid controlled. The valve opening is synchronised to the cam position. Pressure control works somewhat like the intake valve in an Atkinson cycle engine, to reduce pump flow (and therefore pressure for a given demand) the inlet valve is closed later, allowing some of the fuel in the cylinder to be returned back to the fuel supply rather than being compressed and pushed into the fuel rail. The later the valve is closed, the lower the fuel flow.
@@ferrumignisif the solenoid or circuit fails does the pressure go excessive or possibly hydro lock ? Thanks for the explanation. I’m retired after 45 yr career. GDI was still new when I retired so it’s a new system for me.
@@dharley189 As far as I know the inlet check valve only closes when current is applied, so having it unplugged would result in low pressure.
Amazing! Gotta be thorough (like you) to get to the root failure! Great going!
Just started watching. I'm thinking maybe a blocked cat? Check the exhaust pressure at the manifold and after the pre-cat. Burning oil issues (maybe) and no power = blocked cat.
I had this issue on my 2015 Chevy Equinox. After cleaning the throttle body every oil change, The reduced engine speed never came back. Sometimes the carbon built up doesn't let the plate close fully.
My 2011 is running rough rn had a cheap orileys yesterday on it an throttle body cam shaft an crank sensor codes came up so reduced light is on it has 235000 miles I hope it didn't jump time I need a couple more months out of it
Well done ivan :-D
It does sound like the people at the shop were just guessing.
Never a good idea.
i feel sorry for the customer :-(
Nice job! As always 👍 Would be interesting to see what parts the customer had to pay for 🙂
That's the detail we will likely never learn. The shop is unlikely to eat the cost of their mistakes claiming that "the cat would die prematurely so replacement was necessary" or some such. This is why I fix my own cars.
@@davidmelbourne5480 correct, they will claim the problem fowled up the cat, which while true, would have been fixed with an Italian tune up.
wow most of been low on oil but it was noisy good job man I enjoy your channel .
Just started the video but I'm going to guess that there is a timing problem due to oil pressure issues though I would like to see what the fuel alcohol sensor is saying as it will cause all these same symptoms if it does the error and gets stuck with a false reading of high alcohol content and when it does it it's dumping pretty much double the amount of fuel than it needs on regular gas. Disconnect the battery or if there's a way to reset with the scan tool reset it and the problem goes away
These 2.4L engines go through HPFP frequently, so that is always good to change from time to time, else the oil gets diluted.
Could not have a pressure high enough on low side (if broken part was not found), starve the high side?
Yep I agree that timing jumped
It must be almost harder for Ivan that people tell him “we checked this and we did that.” If it came to him at the start I’m sure he would have removed that fuel pump in his first diagnosis and found the follower.
Yes and installing a crap load of aftermarket sensors didn't help either... Didn't know if I could trust any of the readings 😂
The black Gti you did a few weeks ago has the same idea.
Owners usually change these followers every few years as they dont cost much.
A, I would better Tundra also 2015 but with 0 problems. Ivan is the Man. Great job. Fantastic. Thank you
i'd check to see if they lost the bearing cup for the high pressure fuel pump, oh see you got to it in the end.
The fuel pump was really noisy! They are lucky the camshaft was okay still think that it was not starting like it should my 2015 equinox instantly fires up!
So fun little fact at least with the GM GDI systems they seem to be able to build fuel pressure in the rail with the key off so long as the engine is hot. I'd assume it has to do with ambient temp fuel being warmed up to engine temp while sitting causing some expansion leading to pressure increase. I've used this fact to test for a DI injector leaking before. I'd also figure this to be true for more than just GM but I've yet to confirm that
In VW world the cam roller is more like a maintenance item.
Use to sell a lot of those back in my VW parts days. Have seen destroyed cams due to old worn out followers
Number of people i've spoken over tim e who say they cant afford oil changes..
- "I saying to them ""Engine oil $50- new engine $5,000""... make your choice!"
How did you replace the roller and follower without removing the valve cover?
Dont be a parts changer
Be a diag man 😁
Great vid 👍👍👍👍
Hi sir hey I have similar problem but reverse please help 2012 terrain 2.4 eco fuel rail pressure to high! originally no info about car, came in no start timing broke, new timing/phasers/solenoids/high pressure pump, will replace sensor on rail soon maybe will help, but symptoms very tricky, on cold start all perfect problem starts after good warm-up
cold start reassure perfect, after warm-up up to 2000psi if give a more gas pedal more RPM all levels up pressure desired and actual are matched
just on regular start at low RPM from 600-800 engine having same issue like on your video and eventually stops running on it's own
please give advice?
Wheres the Fowler thing ive had that pump out 3 times and done that sensor on the rail underthe intake twice thing wont even stsrt now after 1k of maintenance later
That's insane what a find Ivan !!
Ivan. That engine sounded like a bag of bolts. I'm not sure that it will be long for this world as it sounds like the bottom end is knocking...
I have the same problem where Buy this part is used or New please where Buy this roller
Ivan, this was a tough one! Thanks for Sharing!
Next one will take 15 minutes haha :)
Would the camshaft be trashed from the bad roller? One could see the camshaft through the hole, just move the crankshaft with a big wrench. When the original HPFP was changed, the tech should have taken a minute to inspect the roller, clean it, and bathe it in oil IMHO.
He'll know for next time 😅
Have a family member that has a problem with her equinox they fix wires going to that switch but used different sizes wire but they did solder the wires and it fixed the problem for two weeks now its doing the same thing ? Codes are different then yours but it is a 2012 . Now it has same codes three in witch are double, P228C, P0090, P00C8, P2431, ?
Did they leave off the Follower on the Fuel pump?
Extremely cool 'aha' moment Ivan! Nice diag.
If anyone can figure it out. One would think the follower would have been checked during initial replacement, after all, it is part of the job.
Roller followers are fine, less friction and all...until they fail! I will bet the cam has some wear on that lobe too, but at least the engine runs properly now.
My 2018 GDI chevy cruze runs in the mid to high hundreds at idle and will go to almost 2000psi under load For rail fuel pressure and i put gas in the tank i dont run around on empty
What if you manually increase voltage of pressure sensor until desired and actual matches. Then control signal to HP pump would decrease. If pressure is actually low car would start to run worse as you increse sensor voltage. Can this method be used to prove indirectly that pressure is actually low?
In your video with equinox fuel pressure problem you said customer had hp fuel pump installed but he didn't check the follower. How come you didn't check follower before putting a hp fuel pump on?
Would it be safe to assume the rich condition is due to a lack of fuel atomization? Fuel trims were pulled way back, so I don't think it was calling for long injector pulses to compensate for low pressure. Just curious how a rich condition happens with abnormally low pressure.. one would assume it would lean out. Unless the droplets are so large from low pressure that they don't burn well.
Valid theory. PCM strategy is complicated for GDI engines, so with poor fuel pressure, the fuel trims are to be taken with a grain of salt :)
i'm surprised it ran off low pressure pump. that should have been checked.
I have this problem put new fuel pump new fuel pressure pump new fuel pressures sensors and still the same problem. It drives but then I get the message engine power reduce and starts acting up. Idk what to do at this point My roller looks ok. 😩😩
Will a faulty HPFP cause codes P0016 & P0017 as well. It is running in limp mode?
HPFP runs off a cam lobe that maybe worn causing the changes in fuel psi.
Nice job! Equinox seems to have its share of quality issues.
Did you refund them for your misdiagnosis which resulted in them buying an OEM high pressure fuel pump?
Good job Iven it's a shame they didn't call you sooner.
Hopefully they will next time!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Ya poor customer hopefully they'll say they got you into fixes and not claim they fixed the problem and get all the praise.