Glad to see more about this topic! One I thought of when you mentioned So Clover is Codenames Duet. It puts words on both sides of the cards (if I recall correctly) and also has stand up solution cards that are two-sided so each player has their particular goal words highlighted.
A few more games/mechanisms that come to mind - Radlands / Lost Ruins of Arnak 1st expansion (tracking whether someone holds a specific card which has a unique backside) - John Company 2E (using the front of the flipped card + the back of the topmost unflipped card to choose which event takes place where on the map / clarifying which card in a single deck are flipped and which are kept secret) - Valbaara (using the back of the topmost unflipped card as tiebreaker for who goes first) - 9 Lives (showing who holds which suits, but not which value in a trick-taking game) - Point Salad / Chomp (picking whether you want to use a card as a point-scoring objectives or for the things that score you those objectives) - Illusion (riddle on one side, solution on the other)
In Point Salad all cards are double-sided. One side is a vegetable and on the back is an end-game scoring condition. Every card is a decision which side to use.
I think it's worth dividing this category in two. One part of it is things that a player has in front of them that are static and have two states, things like the pilots in First Flight and the actions in Ark Nova. To me those are just a specific implementation of something that is ubiquitous in modern boardgaming. The fact that they're cards doesn't significantly alter their function. The assistants in Lost Ruins of Arnak do this, as do the commodities in Le Havre and A Feast for Odin, and the bees in Apiary. Under a given condition, change the state of this object. What's interesting to me are the examples like Paleo, Welcome To, and Race to the Raft, where designers move past the paradigm that wherever you have a random draw, the back of the card must be neutral so the player doesn't get to cheat that randomness with additional information. This goes all the way back to the stigma of marked cards in gambling. I do think there is vast unmined potential in that space. I played the Monster Hunter World board game at a recent game night and it uses this mechanism. It's a players-versus-boss-monster battle game, and the monster has a deck of actions it will take. The backs of these cards give you a bit of information about the upcoming move, what part of the monster will be attacking (things like head, tail, or claws) and whether it will attack the nearest or the farthest target. (this sort of thing might already be common in boardgames with PvE combat, I don't play many of them) It felt like a great balance of giving the players enough to strategize with while still keeping the surprise of what the attack would be. Also one minor design touch I love in First in Flight is that they made the Descend card very slightly larger than the cards in your deck, so you can't accidentally pick it up with the rest of your flight and shuffle it in. You feel it right away as soon as you pick up your cards.
That's really neat about Monster Hunter World! And I totally agree with First in Flight--that's one of the elements that I highlighted in my video about it too. :)
Referencing Race to the Raft made me think of how Revive uses both sides of the tiles. For the exploration part of the game, you are paying a cost printed on the back to explore the tile, but it also shows one type of land that you will find on the other side of the tile. It's a really clever way of giving partial information to help guide decisions.
For printing double sided, maybe you can place the front and back designs aligned at the bottom, one upside down, as if their "feet" are touching. Then just fold at that shared seam. There will be blank faces inside and both printed faces outside. A bit of tape or glue on the top can help so they don't open and are easier to shuffle. Less cutting and pasting in comparison to cut, align and paste each side separately.
One clever example is from Scholars of the South Tigris. At the start of the game, you select a starting resource card that indicates how many dice (and of what color), how many workers (and what color), and how much gold you start with. After taking your starting resources, you flip that card over and put it on your player board. The back side is the same for all players and serves both as a player aid and to indicate that, during an income turn, you will consult the astronomy track to determine how many dice you'll pull from your bag on the next round. The game has a unique income structure where your income comes from 6 tracks, but the cards you play onto your player board during regular turns determines *which* tracks will be activated during income (and the position you play them into will determine the order). However, because of this dual sided card, it guarantees that everyone will draw dice from their bag during income (and that this will be the last or second to last step during income because of the position of this card on the player board). This keeps anyone from getting stuck with no dice, and it serves as a useful reminder for how dice get pulled from the bag. Plus it's a player aid.
Point Salad is always the one that comes to mind for double sided cards for me. Your number 1 game made me think that our game Vamp on the Batwalk is a double sided card game. I never thought of it like that before, but like your number 1 pick in Vamp on the Batwalk you are viewing one side of the card while your opponents see the other side, and visa versa. Great video and thanks for making me see our game in a different light now!
After so many people have mentioned it, I feel back for missing Point Salad! I've played it, but only once--I need to get it back to the table. It's always been quite a while since I played Vamp on the Batwalk.
I'm a fan of the mechanism where the front of one card is combined with the back of the next card for extra randomness. I'm pretty sure I've seen it in a few automa decks, eg Apiary, but also as a core mechanic occasionally (Welcome to...)
I think it’s actually a good choice that So Clover! has one-sided cards. Given that each clover that you are putting together has that 5th unknown card thrown in, being able to have the deck face down eliminates the possibility that people will see that a card was grabbed at the last minute to be thrown into the mix.
Another clever reason for the double side of Earth's mission cards is that normally those two sides are related somehow. I don't remember exactly a real case, but they could be something like "have similar cards in each row" or "have different cards in each row". That way, you can tie that when a player receive one mission option, he'll surely receive the other related option too.
Another game in this category is timeline where you have to put things in historical order. One side of the card names the event and the other side has the name but adds the year for you to confirm if you were correct. Fast, fun little game.
What a timely video! I literally listened to it as I fiddled with a game I’m designing that uses double sided cards. I was inspired by Brandon Sanderson’s recent Sunlit Man book and part of the setting includes buildings that are also vehicles. On one card side, I have a vehicle that can be used to move on the shared board and on the other I have buildings that are kept on a personal player board with the option to change back and forth as needed. I definitely felt it when you talked about it being hard to prototype. I know it probably won’t go anywhere since publishing an IP game has extra hurdles on an already difficult process but it has been fun to play with it and dip my toe into the game design waters.
Mantis is the most simple but still great game I've found the back of each card has a hint of three options for what the front might be. Not my style but Jumanji has double sided cards that have riddles on one side and related challenges on the other.
My favorite is definitely Paleo. It provides so much tension in the game when you think you know what you are going to find but rarely 100% know, and the game throws in a couple twists in later scenarios of the game that are interesting. I was ready to start writing a comment about the brilliance of Ark Nova only allowing the upgrade of 4 of the 5 cards, then you mentioned it. I agree, it is such a great design decision and also great that there is not a clear best path of upgrading, it is so situation dependent. Birdwatcher is my other favorite use of both sides of the cards. The rare hybrid birds in the game have a different card back than the "normal" birds-of-paradise species in the game. There is even a hybrid bird that has such a long tail that its tail wraps all the way around onto the back of the card. The different card backs make a relatively small amount of difference in terms of gameplay but it is one of those small touches that just makes the game a little more enjoyable.
- My favorite is Codex Naturalis where the back side of the cards can be used as a less valuable but more versatile option when you get yourself in trouble. - In Meadow the starting ground cards are double sided to give you two options - In Gingerbread House the bonus cards have a basic and an advanced side. Moreover for some of the advanced cards (Baking Oven) when you activate them you flip them over to their basic side to indicate end game points. - Not cards but in The Taverns of Tiefenthal you can flip sections of your personal board to upgrade them.
Thanks for this video! I’m attempting to design a game that uses both sides of the cards - the game is themed after a video rental store and cards are “VHS tapes” with some information for each title on the front and other types of info on the back - “browsing” (ie looking at the back of a card) as an action you can take. First time designer here, lots to learn. Your channel is very helpful!
I feel like Marvel Legendary does well with dual sided Mastermind cards. Some of the mechanics came from World War Hulk Expansion related to transformative abilities and other additions were for adjusting difficulty for Mastermind to make that Mastermind Epic. Also, Targi uses double sided cards to determine which type of cards are replaced. If a goods card is taken from the middle, it will be replaced with a different card than another good card.
about paleo, gatcha do the same thing: in the back you have some hint or information of what might be in the other side of the card. Is about those machines where you put a coin and you get a random toy, so in the game you draft cards in order to get some objetive cards that give you points, but the cards you draft are face down an the back side of the card show you what you might get. It's a good filler game
Two games we play regularly with double sided card abilities are Radlands, where every card can be used as a punk on the reverse side, then put back into the draw deck when destroyed, and Artifacts, Inc (OOP Red Raven), where every card is upgradable to it's reverse, more advantageous side. We just also got Forest Shuffle, where the backs of the cards are all saplings that can be used in a pinch as a tree with no inherent rewards. Cool list!
I love the use of double sided cards and was inspired by Paleo and Sprawlopolis to include it in my to-be published game, Roast, where the back of the card indicates the number of coffee beans you are growing. I hope to expand on this idea in a future design, since there's a lot of unused real estate on the back of most cards!
Hierarchy - I think printing the same image on both sides just facilitates "open information" - just like placing all cards on the table face up - as opposed to dual purpose. Other "open" games I deem ineligible are Pico 2 and Mate! as they don't have dual use. Although, as I look again at your topic name, it states "use of both sides" as opposed to "dual use" - although, the latter generally fits all of your other examples.
I have some thoughts on double-sided cards as my oldest board game project which I've been building up on and off for the last 6 or so years uses them extensively. Mostly I use them in a simple variation style where the front card has a beast with certain abilities and the backside has a promoted/evolved which provides more challenge. This sounds quite similar to your magic the gathering example so I'll have a look into that. While playing around with my game I've learned a few things. The fact that when shuffling the top card of a deck is visible can offer interesting play in its own right. My game, however being a tense cooperative game benefited more from having the deck shuffled blindly with a shield card placed on the top of the deck. This shield card is marginally larger than the rest of the deck. I then cut the deck and have certain cards inserted blindly into the remaining section of the deck which allows for distributing what are essentially advantage cards in an accessible range from the first drawn card. I have players draw from the bottom of the deck which, combined with the shield card(s), leads to pretty effective information hiding; which benefits a tense experience enormously. Not being in the know regarding what is coming up next is interesting. In prototyping, I've found it by far the easiest to prototype this particular mechanic of double-sided cards in a digital environment, but when doing so physically and if wanting to print art (scribbles go a long way) its quite easy to cut and stick two separate sheets to a bit of card or a cheap plastic deck (using as a stencil to cut away,) rather than print on the same sheet. Though that being said it's easy enough to print double-sided given enough bleed as well. With this mechanism, there is the nuisance of having to make sure that all cards are the right way around at set up which can add a couple of minutes to setup time; though it may not always be the case that it's needed. I considered letting them be random in my own game without concerning whether a card was the up or down, but found it led to too much potential for overwhelming odds. Instead, I have the deck sorted with the least significant face up (colour coded or otherwise clearly marked, especially at the borders, for ease) then as my game has different kinds of cards I have them separated (in my game the deck contains at the start 'dungeon cards' which are hallways or rooms which are of utility, and 'beast' cards which are the challenge of the game) then those two sub-categories are cut with one section flipped, and shuffled together again. This is, clearly, a more involved procedure than simply shuffling a deck of cards, but I do think it adds to the experience in several ways. In my case, it lets me limit the challenge to within an acceptable range, and as a bonus, I can have players - while they are cutting the deck for setup - insert into that sub-set of cards an advantage token card that I want to be drawn within a reasonable timeframe of the start of play, and without the players having to exhaust the full deck to obtain it. This still leads to variation from game to game due to the imprecise nature of the cuts, only, without having the worst-case scenarios occur. I also use my 'beast' and 'dungeon' cards as a counter where when in the public hold area (similar to that in Texas Hold'em poker) at the end of a round from when they were placed there they are to be flipped and thus promoted into a more advanced version. This I find interesting - in my own game especially as if a promoted beast isn't played, it will, when it would usually be flipped/promoted, instead 'break free' into the dungeon of its own accord. Whereas rooms/halls which are beneficial (rather than detrimental as they beasts) are made more so. Thus the incentive is to tackle the threats as early as possible and delay the gratification and boon as much as necessary. Essentially in my own game I use the concept mostly in the two mechanical flavours of 'variation via promotion' and as 'counters' or 'conditional states'. I'm now going to look into if there is anywhere I can use any of the ideas you've presented here to improve my game. Perhaps it could be interesting to explore double-sided cards with which players are not allowed to view one side of the card, which may be interesting in a competitive experience. Though in cooperative experiences it's usually more interesting when parties individually don't hold all the information, so if there's limited communication such as in my own game, perhaps that too would be interesting... quite excited to explore that avenue of reasoning now. I recall the feeling I experienced playing Obscurio as the library, trying to indicate to the traitor that they hadn't quite grasped they were allowed to manipulate two cards instead of the one card as they had been consistently doing. That moment of trying to exchange information while constrained on what I could say without giving them away as traitor, was quite enthralling. and the feeling I felt upon pulling off that secret transmission, was satisfying. On first blush it seems a concept more suitable to a team experience, yet I've been given newfound motivation to explore new concepts for my game and hopefully make strides with it. I've only recently revisited the game after years of it being shelved, due to circumstances and of having been dissatisfied with some aspects which I have now rectified (partially thanks to your content no doubt.) Having started an overhaul of a major aspect of the game I feel I may as well take the moment to explore what other kinds of double-sided card mechanics the game might just benefit from. At the very least it's good food for future thought. Thank you for your content; the sheer volume of ideas explored is impressive. These kinds of videos are my favourite of yours, where you talk about particular mechanics or concepts at some length. I also love the cat content. The episodes with Walter getting some scritches are always my favourite. I watch them twice as I zone out and miss what's being said, but it's worth it!
Thanks so much for going into detail about this element of cards. I really like your points about digital playtesting for these types of games and drawing from he bottom of the deck. I'll try to have Walter join me for the start of more videos if he's in my office at the time. :)
Other exaples: * Palm Island: Solo game where the cards have up to four "modes" depending on what side and orientation they are in as you go through the deck eight times (where a card is flipped and turned to increase the turn number you are in) * Bohnanza and Port Royal have a coin on the back as the cards are used face-down as coins * Aegean Sea: The back of the card identifies what nation/material type it is, and the home island "card" has action descriptions on one side and the special abilities of that nation on the other side, and you can flip them during the game to look at the other side since you never put anything on the player "board", just cards under it * Practically every _Tiny Epic_ game: The back of the player boards are different AI opponents - or at least are used in the solo game. * Other Button Shy games like _Circle the Wagons_ and _Sprawlopolis_ series use one side of the cards as a goal or bonus scoring rule. The two-color perfect-information mechanism in Hierarchy also sounds like their _Wonder Tales_ where you build a grid of cards that resolve at the end (e.g. you want your color Huntsman next to the opponent color Wolf so that they get negative and you get positive points)
The word you’re looking for with Marvel Champions is Alter Ego - aka Peter Parker. Hero side would be Spiderman. I encourage you to get a game of it in soon :) also Point Salad/City because its use of both sides is quite clever in my opinion
Jamey, would you be able to provide some insight on how dual-sided printing impacts the manufacturing cost? It's something I've been tinkering with lately in some prototypes, but I'm curious as to how that impacts the final price of the product. You did touch on the actual printing process being trivial (every card needs to be printed on both sides), but I assume you'll need more plates? For example, a game with that's 60 cards and 1 cardback, assuming say 12 cards per sheet, would need 5 plates for the fronts and 1 for the back, so 6 total. But if they had unique backs, you'd need 5 for the front / 10 total? As I understand, creating the plates is a relatively fixed cost, so it scales well, but for games with smaller print runs, that might be tough to justify.
Good news: Unless you don't want any ink at all printed on the back of the cards, it has no impact on the printing cost (or if it does, it's negligible).
@@jameystegmaier incidentally, I think it was wise of the developers *not* to double side the cards. There's already a demand on your memory as to how you had the cards placed; double siding them would turn 5 cards into 10, and could get confusing (they could also accidentally be flipped over when the players are doing their guessing). Also, it would make the distractor card require a rule: would the person making the puzzle get to select the side used for the distractor card, or would it be random? While it might make for an interesting strategic decision to select, now you start to complexify a game that is beautiful for its simplicity.
Two decks form 2 pages of a book. On the right page is one of 4 possible dragon colours and the left page shows a number and a reward. The frontside of both decks decks show pictures of the dragons. You can place these cards face-up or you can use the backside to manipulate the “rules” in the book. I made that sound more complicated than it really is..
👏 for being human. So Clover would be really challenging if you went from 2 words that don’t relate to the puzzle to 6 words that don’t relate to the puzzle on every square. Maybe an expansion for more advanced players?
Glad to see more about this topic! One I thought of when you mentioned So Clover is Codenames Duet. It puts words on both sides of the cards (if I recall correctly) and also has stand up solution cards that are two-sided so each player has their particular goal words highlighted.
Maybe that's what I was thinking about for So Clover. :)
A few more games/mechanisms that come to mind
- Radlands / Lost Ruins of Arnak 1st expansion (tracking whether someone holds a specific card which has a unique backside)
- John Company 2E (using the front of the flipped card + the back of the topmost unflipped card to choose which event takes place where on the map / clarifying which card in a single deck are flipped and which are kept secret)
- Valbaara (using the back of the topmost unflipped card as tiebreaker for who goes first)
- 9 Lives (showing who holds which suits, but not which value in a trick-taking game)
- Point Salad / Chomp (picking whether you want to use a card as a point-scoring objectives or for the things that score you those objectives)
- Illusion (riddle on one side, solution on the other)
In Point Salad all cards are double-sided. One side is a vegetable and on the back is an end-game scoring condition. Every card is a decision which side to use.
Point City too! Great series.
Yep Point Salad is always the first game I think of when double sided cards are mentioned!
I think it's worth dividing this category in two. One part of it is things that a player has in front of them that are static and have two states, things like the pilots in First Flight and the actions in Ark Nova. To me those are just a specific implementation of something that is ubiquitous in modern boardgaming. The fact that they're cards doesn't significantly alter their function. The assistants in Lost Ruins of Arnak do this, as do the commodities in Le Havre and A Feast for Odin, and the bees in Apiary. Under a given condition, change the state of this object.
What's interesting to me are the examples like Paleo, Welcome To, and Race to the Raft, where designers move past the paradigm that wherever you have a random draw, the back of the card must be neutral so the player doesn't get to cheat that randomness with additional information. This goes all the way back to the stigma of marked cards in gambling. I do think there is vast unmined potential in that space. I played the Monster Hunter World board game at a recent game night and it uses this mechanism. It's a players-versus-boss-monster battle game, and the monster has a deck of actions it will take. The backs of these cards give you a bit of information about the upcoming move, what part of the monster will be attacking (things like head, tail, or claws) and whether it will attack the nearest or the farthest target. (this sort of thing might already be common in boardgames with PvE combat, I don't play many of them) It felt like a great balance of giving the players enough to strategize with while still keeping the surprise of what the attack would be.
Also one minor design touch I love in First in Flight is that they made the Descend card very slightly larger than the cards in your deck, so you can't accidentally pick it up with the rest of your flight and shuffle it in. You feel it right away as soon as you pick up your cards.
That's really neat about Monster Hunter World! And I totally agree with First in Flight--that's one of the elements that I highlighted in my video about it too. :)
Referencing Race to the Raft made me think of how Revive uses both sides of the tiles. For the exploration part of the game, you are paying a cost printed on the back to explore the tile, but it also shows one type of land that you will find on the other side of the tile. It's a really clever way of giving partial information to help guide decisions.
For printing double sided, maybe you can place the front and back designs aligned at the bottom, one upside down, as if their "feet" are touching. Then just fold at that shared seam. There will be blank faces inside and both printed faces outside. A bit of tape or glue on the top can help so they don't open and are easier to shuffle. Less cutting and pasting in comparison to cut, align and paste each side separately.
I like that!
One clever example is from Scholars of the South Tigris. At the start of the game, you select a starting resource card that indicates how many dice (and of what color), how many workers (and what color), and how much gold you start with. After taking your starting resources, you flip that card over and put it on your player board. The back side is the same for all players and serves both as a player aid and to indicate that, during an income turn, you will consult the astronomy track to determine how many dice you'll pull from your bag on the next round. The game has a unique income structure where your income comes from 6 tracks, but the cards you play onto your player board during regular turns determines *which* tracks will be activated during income (and the position you play them into will determine the order). However, because of this dual sided card, it guarantees that everyone will draw dice from their bag during income (and that this will be the last or second to last step during income because of the position of this card on the player board). This keeps anyone from getting stuck with no dice, and it serves as a useful reminder for how dice get pulled from the bag. Plus it's a player aid.
I really liked the injury system of journeys to middle earth game, where it instructs you to flip over other injuries, causing a waterfall effect.
Point Salad is always the one that comes to mind for double sided cards for me. Your number 1 game made me think that our game Vamp on the Batwalk is a double sided card game. I never thought of it like that before, but like your number 1 pick in Vamp on the Batwalk you are viewing one side of the card while your opponents see the other side, and visa versa.
Great video and thanks for making me see our game in a different light now!
After so many people have mentioned it, I feel back for missing Point Salad! I've played it, but only once--I need to get it back to the table. It's always been quite a while since I played Vamp on the Batwalk.
I'm a fan of the mechanism where the front of one card is combined with the back of the next card for extra randomness. I'm pretty sure I've seen it in a few automa decks, eg Apiary, but also as a core mechanic occasionally (Welcome to...)
I think it’s actually a good choice that So Clover! has one-sided cards. Given that each clover that you are putting together has that 5th unknown card thrown in, being able to have the deck face down eliminates the possibility that people will see that a card was grabbed at the last minute to be thrown into the mix.
Another clever reason for the double side of Earth's mission cards is that normally those two sides are related somehow. I don't remember exactly a real case, but they could be something like "have similar cards in each row" or "have different cards in each row". That way, you can tie that when a player receive one mission option, he'll surely receive the other related option too.
Another game in this category is timeline where you have to put things in historical order. One side of the card names the event and the other side has the name but adds the year for you to confirm if you were correct. Fast, fun little game.
I'm still annoyed by new editions of Timeline having way fewer cards while being a lot more expensive.
POINT CITY! The Splendor version of Point Salad!
What a timely video! I literally listened to it as I fiddled with a game I’m designing that uses double sided cards. I was inspired by Brandon Sanderson’s recent Sunlit Man book and part of the setting includes buildings that are also vehicles. On one card side, I have a vehicle that can be used to move on the shared board and on the other I have buildings that are kept on a personal player board with the option to change back and forth as needed. I definitely felt it when you talked about it being hard to prototype. I know it probably won’t go anywhere since publishing an IP game has extra hurdles on an already difficult process but it has been fun to play with it and dip my toe into the game design waters.
That's cool! I recently read that book, and I like how you're tying the mechanisms to the theme.
Mantis is the most simple but still great game I've found the back of each card has a hint of three options for what the front might be.
Not my style but Jumanji has double sided cards that have riddles on one side and related challenges on the other.
My favorite is definitely Paleo. It provides so much tension in the game when you think you know what you are going to find but rarely 100% know, and the game throws in a couple twists in later scenarios of the game that are interesting.
I was ready to start writing a comment about the brilliance of Ark Nova only allowing the upgrade of 4 of the 5 cards, then you mentioned it. I agree, it is such a great design decision and also great that there is not a clear best path of upgrading, it is so situation dependent.
Birdwatcher is my other favorite use of both sides of the cards. The rare hybrid birds in the game have a different card back than the "normal" birds-of-paradise species in the game. There is even a hybrid bird that has such a long tail that its tail wraps all the way around onto the back of the card. The different card backs make a relatively small amount of difference in terms of gameplay but it is one of those small touches that just makes the game a little more enjoyable.
Thanks for sharing your favorites! I need to try Birdwatcher.
- My favorite is Codex Naturalis where the back side of the cards can be used as a less valuable but more versatile option when you get yourself in trouble.
- In Meadow the starting ground cards are double sided to give you two options
- In Gingerbread House the bonus cards have a basic and an advanced side. Moreover for some of the advanced cards (Baking Oven) when you activate them you flip them over to their basic side to indicate end game points.
- Not cards but in The Taverns of Tiefenthal you can flip sections of your personal board to upgrade them.
Great examples! If we're talking tiles, I'd include the recent Nucleum as well.
Thanks for this video! I’m attempting to design a game that uses both sides of the cards - the game is themed after a video rental store and cards are “VHS tapes” with some information for each title on the front and other types of info on the back - “browsing” (ie looking at the back of a card) as an action you can take. First time designer here, lots to learn. Your channel is very helpful!
Thanks for sharing, Catherine! That's a clever use of both sides of the card.
I feel like Marvel Legendary does well with dual sided Mastermind cards. Some of the mechanics came from World War Hulk Expansion related to transformative abilities and other additions were for adjusting difficulty for Mastermind to make that Mastermind Epic. Also, Targi uses double sided cards to determine which type of cards are replaced. If a goods card is taken from the middle, it will be replaced with a different card than another good card.
9 Lives. A neat trick taker where the suits are open information. The backs of the cards have the suit color instead of all the backs being the same.
That's a great pick!
about paleo, gatcha do the same thing: in the back you have some hint or information of what might be in the other side of the card. Is about those machines where you put a coin and you get a random toy, so in the game you draft cards in order to get some objetive cards that give you points, but the cards you draft are face down an the back side of the card show you what you might get. It's a good filler game
Two games we play regularly with double sided card abilities are Radlands, where every card can be used as a punk on the reverse side, then put back into the draw deck when destroyed, and Artifacts, Inc (OOP Red Raven), where every card is upgradable to it's reverse, more advantageous side. We just also got Forest Shuffle, where the backs of the cards are all saplings that can be used in a pinch as a tree with no inherent rewards. Cool list!
Thanks for these examples!
I love the use of double sided cards and was inspired by Paleo and Sprawlopolis to include it in my to-be published game, Roast, where the back of the card indicates the number of coffee beans you are growing.
I hope to expand on this idea in a future design, since there's a lot of unused real estate on the back of most cards!
That's great, and congrats on Roast!
Sounds interesting. Plus I love coffee themed games. I checked BGG but didn't find it. How can I learn more about it?
@@redheadbanjoIt's still in development but should be announced within the next year!
Hierarchy - I think printing the same image on both sides just facilitates "open information" - just like placing all cards on the table face up - as opposed to dual purpose. Other "open" games I deem ineligible are Pico 2 and Mate! as they don't have dual use. Although, as I look again at your topic name, it states "use of both sides" as opposed to "dual use" - although, the latter generally fits all of your other examples.
Pursuit of Happiness has female/male sides for partners. Other types of cards also have different versions of the same card effect or similar.
I have some thoughts on double-sided cards as my oldest board game project which I've been building up on and off for the last 6 or so years uses them extensively. Mostly I use them in a simple variation style where the front card has a beast with certain abilities and the backside has a promoted/evolved which provides more challenge. This sounds quite similar to your magic the gathering example so I'll have a look into that. While playing around with my game I've learned a few things.
The fact that when shuffling the top card of a deck is visible can offer interesting play in its own right. My game, however being a tense cooperative game benefited more from having the deck shuffled blindly with a shield card placed on the top of the deck. This shield card is marginally larger than the rest of the deck. I then cut the deck and have certain cards inserted blindly into the remaining section of the deck which allows for distributing what are essentially advantage cards in an accessible range from the first drawn card. I have players draw from the bottom of the deck which, combined with the shield card(s), leads to pretty effective information hiding; which benefits a tense experience enormously. Not being in the know regarding what is coming up next is interesting.
In prototyping, I've found it by far the easiest to prototype this particular mechanic of double-sided cards in a digital environment, but when doing so physically and if wanting to print art (scribbles go a long way) its quite easy to cut and stick two separate sheets to a bit of card or a cheap plastic deck (using as a stencil to cut away,) rather than print on the same sheet. Though that being said it's easy enough to print double-sided given enough bleed as well.
With this mechanism, there is the nuisance of having to make sure that all cards are the right way around at set up which can add a couple of minutes to setup time; though it may not always be the case that it's needed. I considered letting them be random in my own game without concerning whether a card was the up or down, but found it led to too much potential for overwhelming odds. Instead, I have the deck sorted with the least significant face up (colour coded or otherwise clearly marked, especially at the borders, for ease) then as my game has different kinds of cards I have them separated (in my game the deck contains at the start 'dungeon cards' which are hallways or rooms which are of utility, and 'beast' cards which are the challenge of the game) then those two sub-categories are cut with one section flipped, and shuffled together again. This is, clearly, a more involved procedure than simply shuffling a deck of cards, but I do think it adds to the experience in several ways. In my case, it lets me limit the challenge to within an acceptable range, and as a bonus, I can have players - while they are cutting the deck for setup - insert into that sub-set of cards an advantage token card that I want to be drawn within a reasonable timeframe of the start of play, and without the players having to exhaust the full deck to obtain it. This still leads to variation from game to game due to the imprecise nature of the cuts, only, without having the worst-case scenarios occur. I also use my 'beast' and 'dungeon' cards as a counter where when in the public hold area (similar to that in Texas Hold'em poker) at the end of a round from when they were placed there they are to be flipped and thus promoted into a more advanced version. This I find interesting - in my own game especially as if a promoted beast isn't played, it will, when it would usually be flipped/promoted, instead 'break free' into the dungeon of its own accord. Whereas rooms/halls which are beneficial (rather than detrimental as they beasts) are made more so. Thus the incentive is to tackle the threats as early as possible and delay the gratification and boon as much as necessary.
Essentially in my own game I use the concept mostly in the two mechanical flavours of 'variation via promotion' and as 'counters' or 'conditional states'. I'm now going to look into if there is anywhere I can use any of the ideas you've presented here to improve my game. Perhaps it could be interesting to explore double-sided cards with which players are not allowed to view one side of the card, which may be interesting in a competitive experience. Though in cooperative experiences it's usually more interesting when parties individually don't hold all the information, so if there's limited communication such as in my own game, perhaps that too would be interesting... quite excited to explore that avenue of reasoning now. I recall the feeling I experienced playing Obscurio as the library, trying to indicate to the traitor that they hadn't quite grasped they were allowed to manipulate two cards instead of the one card as they had been consistently doing. That moment of trying to exchange information while constrained on what I could say without giving them away as traitor, was quite enthralling. and the feeling I felt upon pulling off that secret transmission, was satisfying. On first blush it seems a concept more suitable to a team experience, yet I've been given newfound motivation to explore new concepts for my game and hopefully make strides with it. I've only recently revisited the game after years of it being shelved, due to circumstances and of having been dissatisfied with some aspects which I have now rectified (partially thanks to your content no doubt.) Having started an overhaul of a major aspect of the game I feel I may as well take the moment to explore what other kinds of double-sided card mechanics the game might just benefit from. At the very least it's good food for future thought.
Thank you for your content; the sheer volume of ideas explored is impressive. These kinds of videos are my favourite of yours, where you talk about particular mechanics or concepts at some length.
I also love the cat content. The episodes with Walter getting some scritches are always my favourite. I watch them twice as I zone out and miss what's being said, but it's worth it!
Thanks so much for going into detail about this element of cards. I really like your points about digital playtesting for these types of games and drawing from he bottom of the deck.
I'll try to have Walter join me for the start of more videos if he's in my office at the time. :)
Other exaples:
* Palm Island: Solo game where the cards have up to four "modes" depending on what side and orientation they are in as you go through the deck eight times (where a card is flipped and turned to increase the turn number you are in)
* Bohnanza and Port Royal have a coin on the back as the cards are used face-down as coins
* Aegean Sea: The back of the card identifies what nation/material type it is, and the home island "card" has action descriptions on one side and the special abilities of that nation on the other side, and you can flip them during the game to look at the other side since you never put anything on the player "board", just cards under it
* Practically every _Tiny Epic_ game: The back of the player boards are different AI opponents - or at least are used in the solo game.
* Other Button Shy games like _Circle the Wagons_ and _Sprawlopolis_ series use one side of the cards as a goal or bonus scoring rule. The two-color perfect-information mechanism in Hierarchy also sounds like their _Wonder Tales_ where you build a grid of cards that resolve at the end (e.g. you want your color Huntsman next to the opponent color Wolf so that they get negative and you get positive points)
Awesome list! Thank you for these examples and how they work.
I would love to see a video on your favorite double *ended* or double use cards. Scout and Gloomhaven being notable examples.
Absolutely! Here's my video on multi-use cards: th-cam.com/video/ZxYOccxmo3E/w-d-xo.htmlsi=tYVS8krOckWWa4y_
@@jameystegmaier thank you!
The word you’re looking for with Marvel Champions is Alter Ego - aka Peter Parker. Hero side would be Spiderman. I encourage you to get a game of it in soon :) also Point Salad/City because its use of both sides is quite clever in my opinion
That's the word! Thank you, Reggie.
Transformers TCG is my favourite double sided card game. It does it the best imo - as marvel champions borrowed so many mechanics from it. 🎉🎉🎉
Jamey, would you be able to provide some insight on how dual-sided printing impacts the manufacturing cost? It's something I've been tinkering with lately in some prototypes, but I'm curious as to how that impacts the final price of the product. You did touch on the actual printing process being trivial (every card needs to be printed on both sides), but I assume you'll need more plates? For example, a game with that's 60 cards and 1 cardback, assuming say 12 cards per sheet, would need 5 plates for the fronts and 1 for the back, so 6 total. But if they had unique backs, you'd need 5 for the front / 10 total? As I understand, creating the plates is a relatively fixed cost, so it scales well, but for games with smaller print runs, that might be tough to justify.
Good news: Unless you don't want any ink at all printed on the back of the cards, it has no impact on the printing cost (or if it does, it's negligible).
So Clover's cards are actually *four* sided... you just don't have to flip them over :)
That's a good way to put it! :)
@@jameystegmaier I prefer such multi-use cards - e.g. Forest Shuffle and Mottainai - as opposed to double-sided cards.
@@jameystegmaier incidentally, I think it was wise of the developers *not* to double side the cards. There's already a demand on your memory as to how you had the cards placed; double siding them would turn 5 cards into 10, and could get confusing (they could also accidentally be flipped over when the players are doing their guessing). Also, it would make the distractor card require a rule: would the person making the puzzle get to select the side used for the distractor card, or would it be random? While it might make for an interesting strategic decision to select, now you start to complexify a game that is beautiful for its simplicity.
I like the way Dragonkeepers uses both sides as a mechanism..
I'm not familiar with that one--how does it use both sides of the cards?
Two decks form 2 pages of a book. On the right page is one of 4 possible dragon colours and the left page shows a number and a reward. The frontside of both decks decks show pictures of the dragons. You can place these cards face-up or you can use the backside to manipulate the “rules” in the book. I made that sound more complicated than it really is..
@@MegaSNES64 Thank you for sharing! That's really cool--I like the idea of using the cards as pages of a book.
How about Valbaara? A super elegant tie break mechanism on the back of each land card.
I like that!
👏 for being human. So Clover would be really challenging if you went from 2 words that don’t relate to the puzzle to 6 words that don’t relate to the puzzle on every square.
Maybe an expansion for more advanced players?
Maybe if the different sides had different colors, so you could know you’re playing just the green sides or just the orange sides.
Thanks. :) I agree, that would make the puzzle quite challenging! But your color solution could work well.
I don’t think ark nova should really count for this list, but hey it is a great game that technically has double sided cards
R.O.V.E. By Button Shy. 😉🥃
I prefer Mobius cards. But not many games use them in this dimension.
Tribes of the wind..
Port Royal