It's amazing how much of a change can be caused by repositioning headphones on your head. I keep fidgeting with my Focal Elear, constantly trying to find the sweet spot. It's a much bigger difference than switching cables or even using a different DAC.
Strange you didn't hear your midrange become more chocolatey. You usually get more romatic vocals with diamond coated silver cables braided in Australia or New Zealand, give it a try 😂
It is very well known that chocolateyness can not be measured by a 100 of thousands of precise electronic equipment, does not have to do with FQ or any other nonsense factual stuff, you only need to call yourself an audiophile and vualá it's all there, chocolatey from haeven.........
If you opened up most headphones audiophiles would be horrified to find that the last bit of copper soldered to the drivers is often a single hair width strand
Boots are actually broken in to fit your feet. How are conductor's atoms broken in by moving free electrons back and forth with minuscule A/C currents?
Even without such objective tests, I rued my purchase of a $500 silver headphone cable as I could not tell any difference on listening. This video proves my gut feel. Thanks Amir to remove even the iota of doubt in my mind.
Great review per usual. I like how you didn't beat the manufacturer up too much. I'm not familiar with Norne Audio, but I appreciate that a handmade accessory can be expensive. I think by this point pretty much everyone in the audio community understands that cables don't make a significant impact on audio quality unless they're un-shielded or frayed or something extreme, which could cause distortion or disconnects. I can understand wanting to purchase a premium cable for piece of mind, aesthetics, feel, etc. Some people have bigger budgets and can afford nice accessories, but if one is on a restricted budget fancy cables are best avoided. Thanks again!
I enjoyed this review. It was respectful to the businessman who business is to make the cables and the review stood on its own, using your data and your insight without having to call out anyone else. Very well done.
Thank you so much for providing this. Every once in a while I question myself if there maybe really Is a difference. I thought getting some new IEM's would be a good reason to try it myself. The fakt how few of these tests can be found on the tube speaks volumes. I won't waste money on this. Thx again.
Thank you for testing these cables! I'm in a bunch of headphone groups on facebook and half of what people talk about is their stupid cables. It drives me crazy.
My experience is that cables really only make a difference in the PA world at higher frequencies and when transferring large amounts of power in the Kw range.
@@fx-studio i disagree.... when i tried 2 strand pure copper and 4 strand pure copper on iem, the bass hit me in my face on the 4 strand compared to gentle slaps on 2 strand
Great video, keep doing these. You give us chance to concentrate on music and value of audio equipment rather than waste our time on fancy things which worth a fortune, but does exactly the same things.
Your efforts have saved me a lot of headache and money. (This makes it easy to donate!) Very fun and educational too. Although I have an engineering background, I am not that familiar with 'audiophile' hi-fi. THANKS! It motivated me to get a copy of the Sound Engineers handbook to get a bit more background.
Another comment from someone else: " I've never heard a difference using cables with any 'normal' headphone. But I was VERY surprised when I heard a fairly clear difference on some low impedance IEMs. Given the [demonstrated effect with IEMs] it'd be interesting to see how it potentially affects heaphones that are harder to drive but still low impedance like some planars, or maybe even ribbon headphones."
Thank you, this is what I have been wanting to see. I have been so curious for a long time if there is even a small measurable difference between cables. I have bought many cables for many systems and I wasn't ever sure if it made any difference, I admit I thought I could have possibly been hearing an extremely subtle difference at certain points but it was not why I bought an aftermarket cable. I only ever bought cables for nice build and looks and for custom lengths and terminations. I have since learned to solder and now make all of my own cables. Anyway it's really nice to see just how exactly the same these different cables perform, obviously there is no audible difference or it would show up in the measurements, surely nobody can argue that.
Thanks for watching. And yes, it is certainly possible and even probable that you would sense some differences as such comparisons are very hard to do.
I love the way light braided cables sit on my desk when using, they lay and bend nicely and stay out of the way, versus stock cables which are usually terrible. But damn like $200 is my LIMIT for cables.
I admire your videos - the pacing and technical level is ideal. I would make one suggestion - in the case of headphone cables it might be important that there is a realistic current flowing in the cable. I did not notice you mention any particular termination in the analyser, so I assumed it was perhaps quite a high impedance, but it might make sense to put a 32 ohm load at the analyser end of the cable to represent a typical headphone load. (Some will ask for 600 ohms or some other value - also a valid point of view.) Most likely there would not be a difference in your findings. Crosstalk would probably remain the same, but magnetic coupling, either between conductors, or from the environment, might be be affected by the load impedance. The source impedance would dominate, I assume. A low load impedance could lessen pickup from outside the cable (such as those anomalies around 120Hz). It probably should make little difference to the effects from within the cable, but I would love to know. As an electronics engineer who had 15 years in audio (never a fan of "high-end" marketing hype, and recently retired), I always advised newcomers to "think about where the electrons go" - It's a great help when looking at noise, grounding and other issues. Thanks for all that you do in your videos.
@Tom Foolery although I do believe Danny is a snake oil salesman to be fair redoing a crossover can make a difference in how a speaker sounds. Doesn't necessarily mean it's better just different.
I wouldn't expect a difference between 3 premium cables. The question is do they perform better than cheap cables? Maybe something you'd get off Amazon? Because you can't show a difference between 3 high quality cables does not mean there isn't a line where quality matters.
So the wires inside the actual headphones are always extremely thin yet the wire leading up to them is supposed to make a difference. And then with power cables for separates is the opposite. The wire inside the house is cheap and basic yet the last few feet of extremely expensive power cable is supposed to make a difference. These audiophools will buy anything
I am always amazed at the wire snake oil. For the most part, wires are simply wires. I have always used properly sized zip cord for speakers and nicely made cables for headphones. As Amir has shown, spending thousands of dollars on wire is always a losing proposition.
@@AudioScienceReview if people ask... Funny to see that everyone is like, "yeah but how about this one?" can't get the general idea that a cable will not matter and if you are paranoid take some nice 10 awg and you re done
@@AudioScienceReviewfancy Power cable... such a joke... I don't need to see the review. People who sell those are thief. You can't think different if you have just basic knowledge about electronics.
But did you use regular electrons or the specially curated bespoke dedicated audio electrons? You need to use the ones that were gathered during The Big War.
I tend to use folks who build cables and sell on eBay in the UK. You get a nice, supple, well built, braided cable to specified length and connector type and colour for maybe £40 to £60. In my view well worth it. I feel no need to spend more. Same goes for interconnects. I haven't found anyone who builds speaker cable yet and unfortunately blue jeans cable ( which I understand are great value ) don't seem to sell in the UK. I use Chord and QED but not the expensive stuff.
Must concur, good diy cable from small vendors is by far the best value. You can find van damme lcofc assembled cables From uk on e bay. It is remarkably good stuff.
For me the significant difference between headphone cables is how much more microphonic some are than others. It's annoying hearing a loud sawing sound if I move my head and the cable rubs on my clothes. I find that cheap, thin, flexible, plastic coated cables tend to be better than thicker and more expensive cables, especially if they're sleeved in fabric.
that's not a microphonic phenomenon you're hearing and the conclusion/solution you found demonstrates it. it's a mechanical vibration transmission, imagine a stethoscope sort of situation... to encounter microphonic issues, the electrical signal needs to be amplified after it passes thru the conductor. there is no amplification of the signal happening between the amp and the headphone's transducers. the signal is already amplified as it travels thru the cable... hope this helps.
You noticed that? :) I figure if a cable is that good at transmitting the sound, maybe you can one can do away with the headphone and connect the wires directly to the ear!
Worst thing about some stock cables is the vibrations. I have one cable from them. It was actually cheaper than $200 I believe... Norne cables are well built and really nice looking. Customer support is solid is great too. Well worth it if you have flagship headphones with an ugly or stiff cable.
Hi Amir! Have you found this is also the same with interconnect cables? and would you happen to have some brands that you recommend as far as cables go?
Hi Amir, love your channel. With all the cable and equipment testing you do here, have you considered creating a "recommended" area on you channel? For example, I would find it succinctly useful to be able to quickly see what interconnects, cables, etc are "recommended" so I can confidently purchase. Thanks...your word is gold.
Someone else's comment: "Jay Kay-Bull yeah yeah, Amir should test the cable hypothesis especially those IEMs with large impedance swings like the Campfire Andromeda or the ATH IM or LS balanced armatures. "
Hi, Amir. Do balanced headphone cables make a difference relative to unbalanced ones? I have a headphone that uses unbalanced cable but would like to change the cable and install a balanced one. Your recommendation is highly appreciated.
I know it might seem like the same thing, but I'd be extremely curious to see this done with speaker cables, if you'd be willing to humour it - I've never experienced notable differences in headphone cables, but I took part in a listening test where people could consistently tell the difference between a Van Den Hul: The Wind, and an Audioquest: Oak cable. Roughly the same result was the case between Van Den Hul: The Air and Audioquest: Rocket 44, which would suggest the characteristics are fairly consistent across the two brands high end models, in case you cant get the specific cables. It might be complete nonsense, the test just got me curious, since I generally hadn't been a particular "believer" in cables, and am now at least curious, since that test seemed to be an anomaly, even if anecdotal.
If there is a difference, then the high end cables are actually _worse_ and introducing some change in the audio that shouldn't be there. I've tested standard zip cord on both resistive loads and speakers and there's nothing to see. What goes in is what comes out, as one would expect. The whole "Litz" thing is a misunderstanding of why Litz wire exists in the first place. At audio anything works, but at higher frequencies (or for large diameter mains distribution cable), the skin effect from AC current becomes substantial, causing most of the current to be carried along the outside of the cable only, with little in the interior. By weaving the cables together (Litz wire, and Millikan wound high tension AC mains cable), the wire strands all pass between the interior and the exterior of the cable along its length, distributing the current and help alleviate the skin effect. In speaker cables and other cables, Litz wires wont make a difference at audio, and may cause EMI from interference pickup.
@@mysock351C Extending frequency response was not why we started using Litz wire. Like everything else, original wire extrusion resulted in fat stiff uncoated wires. That's fine strung pole to pole insulated separately. But the need came along to run multiple wires together so wire became cloth wrapped. Insulated now yes, but still not very flexible. And we could not extrude a fine enough wire. But we could produce a thin metal foil. But if was not strong enough to keep from breaking when flexed. So it was intertwined with cloth. The cloth provided the strength and form. The foil carried the signal. Worked for lower voltages where flexibility was needed like mic and headphone cables.
Thank you for this video Amir. I have a question that this video didn't answer, that is, can there be significant differences between cables in crosstalk? Headphone cables transmit some current, so maybe left/right channel separation plays some role?
most of the times I do switch cables but only to balanced option and that give my headphones more power so there is a difference 👍 and if I want it to look cool I pay extra for it
I just picked up a pair of HifiMan Edition XS and the only reason I ordered aftermarket HART cables was due to the short cable length they provided. I like the quality of the rubberized cable provided but I need 10 feet and I would prefer not having to use an extension cable. I get that the cable length is ideal for use with cell phones so I can't really complain about that.
Thanks Amir, another informative and entertaining review. I was always told that silver cables “sped up “ the signal and that’s why they were very good. In fact on speaker cables I was told that if I moved from copper to silver I no longer needed to keep the runs to each speaker the same length because the speed over silver negated the issue of the speakers being slightly out of phase. My empty wallet solved that conundrum but I would love to know if there is any truth in it. Also I would love for you to analyse from the other way, i.e. starting with a result and going backwards. So take two amplifiers where one sounds much better than the other, why is this? What does your analyser pick up that confirms one is actually better? Is it distortion or dynamics or what? Thanks again and please keep up the good work.
faster signal...that is some fascinating oil...one might even call it snake-like. and when people discuss amps that "sound better" it's almost always because the amp introduces distortion that is pleasurable to the ears for some folks. you will not really the tell the difference between most clean amps in a blind test. even many tube amps that don't add much distortion will still sound very similar to solid states.
@@AudioScienceReview Thank you, I can't wait to see your upcoming results. What about this product? Any opinion or experience about it? saticshield.com/energy-management-system/power-perfect-wire-in/
LOL, Jude at Head-Fi, and thousounds of other cable pundits' hearts, egos, and pocketbooks are now shattered. :-P Thanks for that! As long as the physical construction of the cable, its connectors, and their termination seem sound, I've always purchased interconnect and headphone cables based on how flexible/nice the cable and/or sheathing is in use, along with the quality & size/ease-of-use of the connectors. In the Telecom and aerospace industries, the most critical part of any cable is its soldered or crimped termination quality, and the quality and longevity of the contact that the specific connectors that are used provide. Good stuff, Amir. I can't thank you enough for providing these reviews and especially the data to dispel these perpetual myths! 👍👍
changing cables is like seasoning your food... subtle but noticeable differences...... once i tried 1/2 dozen speaker cables just to settle on one that blends well with the power amp and speakers.... but if you base your hifi experience on graphs and measurements then may as well just look at your gears and don't turn it on.....
If you EQ a pair of HD600's to be identical (frequency wise) to a Focal Stellia, would you be able to tell the difference between the 2 headphones (in terms of sound only)? What affects things like timbre? Does using different amps change the frequency response? If using different amps still gets you the same FR on a graph, why does changing amps change the sound overall?
Hey Amir, Do you know if Topping or SMSL will make new Power Amplifers for speakers? Something along the lines of the Benchmark AHB2. Many review sites have praised the Benchmark AHB2, but it is $3,000 dollars, and it's a stereo amp, not monoblock. Do you know if Topping or SMSL or whoever has plans to release a new product to compete with Benchmark in the power amp category? Thanks a lot and keep up the good work!
Thanks for video. Another German speaker here, so lihts, not leitz, for stranded cables. No surprise about results. Have you ever seen headphone cables differ measurably? What is the contributing factor? Wire gauge? connector type? nothin'? Just wondering whether there is anything except feel one should pay attention to when shopping around. Looking for a shorter cable for my Dan Clark Ether 2.
There is a difference a cable can make though which is cable noise. The standard cable for the Meze 99Classics for example are terribly noisy when rubbing against clothing (for me at least), but their upgrade cables don't have this issue. In terms of sound quality I notice no difference. There could maybe be a slight difference, because I don't get distracted by cable noise and can just enjoy the music.
Amir, i believe these can make a difference. I had a situation with of my earphone's cable, it transferred every, even slightest touch, to the earphones, i heard when cable was rubbing clothes. So i changed it to fancy, silver coated, braided, 10 euro aliexpress hi-end cable and problem gone instantly.
Would you look into "better power supply" topic next time? I time it is another great one not already discussed here. Because it seems that really every people recommend "upgrade" the power supply to even low end stuff like Topping E30 with some fancy switching power supply or linear. Is there some truth in there? Thanks in advanced.
And work we use Phase Stable Cables for testing equipment... This means the frequency response is always the same no matter how you move the cable. Not sure if the audio world has something like this yet.
the secret is matching a cable to the right IEM or Headphones......I might not be special, but I love music and can tell a difference between Copper and Silver !
It is alarming that so many people are fooled by snake oil, and not just in audio. This indicates a serious inadequacy in the education system. Our kids are not being taught basic science and how to think critically.
The only difference between my £14 and £35 IEM cable (and it is a big one) is how much noise it picks up from the cable rubbing or “microphonics”. The £14 cable has about 80% more at a rough guess
The guys over at Abyss also have a company that sells very high end cables. Theirs aren't even the most expensive ones you can get. I've found cables upwards of 10K online. It blows me away. Human ears are great, but they aren't that discerning.
I've never heard any difference in cheap cables either. Feel is a big thing though. The springy garden hose cable that come with Hifiman Sundara was driving me crazy. I like Hart audio cables. Reasonably priced, good feel, and their multikits are good for connecting to various amps.
They can improve things if the impedance of them does what you like to the sound. Everyone knows an impedance change or mis-match in audio cables can change the sound, either make it worse, or make it better.
If a headphone cable’s impedance is so high that it’s making a sound difference. The headphone cable is defective. Send it back to the manufacturer and explain the problem. They will work to correct it. Even 5 dollar generic cables have beyond perfectly low impedance. And the effect of high impedance would be a high pass or a low pass filter. And a very bad one at that. You don’t want to have such a filter which most probably designed itself through a manufacturing fluke/fault. Better buy the 5 dollar cable. And use a professionally designed filter. If you want the best of such an effect.
@@phototristan if its defective yes, its like if you buy a very accurate compass for a hiking trip, it won't make you get lost in the woods but if your compass shows north as south then why would you want such a compass in the first place? why do you want a cable with filtering qualities? cables are meant to be transparent as standard because if you design cables to be filters they make for lousy, unreliable , unpredictable filters. which can only degrade the sound. no one does that, its only in theory they can make a difference but no one is stupid enough to intentionally build such cables. why not just buy a perfectly conducting cable and use a high quality designed reliable filter if that's what you want? But of course audiophiles are tin foil brain wearing cookoos who can't be persuaded by logic and reason. But even manufactures of high end expensive cables are not crazy enough to build high impedance cables, they will only use it as an excuse to claim cable difference to poor foolish audiophiles who in the end buy a cable with the same impedance parameters as that of 5 dollar one. enjoy
I did try compare copper cable and silver cable, it have dramatically change in tonal character. The silver cable have excessive high frequency presentation!
Yeah, all the IEM manufacturers (and armature manufacturers) know the only wire that really matters is inside the housing. Varied diameter wire brings different impedance to the armature, and can all be messed with for fine tuning. But the main cable itself is always bigger than those tiny wires and doesn't matter.
I might just be dumb but on that first chart, isnt there a difference of ~7.5 db in that area about 10khz theres those 3 dips after 5khz the one before 10khz and the one right after i can see a color gradient, blue is the lowest, followed by orange then brown, and theres also a small dip (like maybe a db/half a db) Im not going to claim that it makes a difference or is audible because quite frankly im in the camp of "only buy nice cables because theyre built like a tank or for the aesthetics" But if im not seeing things i would be curious about why theres a difference there
I would have expected the silver cable to have a slightly lower resistance and therefore produce a slightly higher sound level. A next to nothing increase and completely inaudible, but still measurable. Lovely to be proven wrong. By the way compared to what most other cable companies charge for similar these are almost bargains.
One measurement would be to test "microphonics".. because at least theoretically, the braided cables will be worse as they are loosely around each other, allowing much greater movement of the conductors in relation with each other.
I've heard people be like buying a 30$ IEM with a 30$ upgrade cable and describing the difference like it's an entirely new IEM. That said, how about the difference between impedance?
This whole debate can be basically summed up into one solid piece of good audiophile advice. When it comes to headphone cables, just stay away from those silver plated copper cables. the two different metals have different transport characteristics and you don't want them together, either pick all silver or all copper. That's all anybody really wants you to try. If you're using good gear then you will notice the sibilance and distortion introduced.
ty for all your contributions AMIR.
Thanks Choi. Much appreciated.
Amir is the GOAT
Gene is valuable as well
wow Amir and Gene, I really admired these 2 guys, maybe we get lucky and watch someday both of them chatting...
@SodapopTheOutsider no, HUGO is the GOAT!
YES!
And you are, too, Gene!
@SodapopTheOutsider hahaha
I don't buy any audio gear without checking for an Audio Science Review first.
Thanks for all your effort and hard work.
Litze meaning stranded wire in German, and pronounces as /ˈlɪtsə/. And thank you for all the great videos!
Thanks for that!
It's amazing how much of a change can be caused by repositioning headphones on your head. I keep fidgeting with my Focal Elear, constantly trying to find the sweet spot. It's a much bigger difference than switching cables or even using a different DAC.
I really liked the calm way you expressed the objectivist vs subjectivist debate. You’re setting a great example!
Thank you so much. It is great to see my intent getting through that way. :)
Strange you didn't hear your midrange become more chocolatey. You usually get more romatic vocals with diamond coated silver cables braided in Australia or New Zealand, give it a try 😂
It is very well known that chocolateyness can not be measured by a 100 of thousands of precise electronic equipment, does not have to do with FQ or any other nonsense factual stuff, you only need to call yourself an audiophile and vualá it's all there, chocolatey from haeven.........
don't forget about the PRAT it improves a lot with australian cables too
Gotta get some Swiss made cables for that chocolatey goodness.
@@jsharp9735 hahaha
😂😂😂 im dead man
If you opened up most headphones audiophiles would be horrified to find that the last bit of copper soldered to the drivers is often a single hair width strand
Yup its a pain to fix
But somehow it manages to carry audio lol
Thats why is all BS because if it made a difference the companies like Focal would use better wire.
Yes... Tiny voltage going through headphones
Maybe that's why the right driver in my Focal Clear isn't working. I need to open it up and take a look.
I feel bad for spending over £100 on some nice boots but then when i see cables that people buy for $800 it makes me feel better in my decisions.
Don’t. Boots under $150 US dollars are shit.
@@georgec1779 yeah I guess they are if you want them to last.
I mean, $500 boots last for lifetimes. Cables rust.
@@albertxion513 True although thats a bit extreme for me.
Boots are actually broken in to fit your feet. How are conductor's atoms broken in by moving free electrons back and forth with minuscule A/C currents?
Even without such objective tests, I rued my purchase of a $500 silver headphone cable as I could not tell any difference on listening. This video proves my gut feel. Thanks Amir to remove even the iota of doubt in my mind.
$500? Bruh
Great review per usual. I like how you didn't beat the manufacturer up too much. I'm not familiar with Norne Audio, but I appreciate that a handmade accessory can be expensive. I think by this point pretty much everyone in the audio community understands that cables don't make a significant impact on audio quality unless they're un-shielded or frayed or something extreme, which could cause distortion or disconnects. I can understand wanting to purchase a premium cable for piece of mind, aesthetics, feel, etc. Some people have bigger budgets and can afford nice accessories, but if one is on a restricted budget fancy cables are best avoided. Thanks again!
I enjoyed this review. It was respectful to the businessman who business is to make the cables and the review stood on its own, using your data and your insight without having to call out anyone else. Very well done.
A business deceiving ignorant buyers
Thank you so much for providing this. Every once in a while I question myself if there maybe really Is a difference. I thought getting some new IEM's would be a good reason to try it myself. The fakt how few of these tests can be found on the tube speaks volumes. I won't waste money on this. Thx again.
Wow. So as someone with a very recent obsession in buying cables, all of which from Amazon and within a return period, thank you 🙏
Thank you for testing these cables! I'm in a bunch of headphone groups on facebook and half of what people talk about is their stupid cables. It drives me crazy.
A nice looking cable is like jewelry for audio
My experience is that cables really only make a difference in the PA world at higher frequencies and when transferring large amounts of power in the Kw range.
@@fx-studio i disagree.... when i tried 2 strand pure copper and 4 strand pure copper on iem, the bass hit me in my face on the 4 strand compared to gentle slaps on 2 strand
@@fatdoi003 yea I tried silver and copper iem cables and I can hear they made a difference but in headphones Idk
Great video, keep doing these. You give us chance to concentrate on music and value of audio equipment rather than waste our time on fancy things which worth a fortune, but does exactly the same things.
A good and important topic. I'd think we might see more of a difference in really bad/cheap cables vs normal cables than normal vs premium.
Your efforts have saved me a lot of headache and money. (This makes it easy to donate!) Very fun and educational too. Although I have an engineering background, I am not that familiar with 'audiophile' hi-fi. THANKS! It motivated me to get a copy of the Sound Engineers handbook to get a bit more background.
@Douglas Blake Thx, any specific references in mind?
This was very useful and will save people a lot of $. Well done Amir!
Thanks a bunch. Appreciate you watching and commenting.
I wish, they wont listen. Just explained this to someone and they told me they hear the difference and to prove it 🤣🤣 some people cant be helped
Another comment from someone else:
"
I've never heard a difference using cables with any 'normal' headphone. But I was VERY surprised when I heard a fairly clear difference on some low impedance IEMs.
Given the [demonstrated effect with IEMs] it'd be interesting to see how it potentially affects heaphones that are harder to drive but still low impedance like some planars, or maybe even ribbon headphones."
I never thought they would.. but they do look cool..
Thank you, this is what I have been wanting to see. I have been so curious for a long time if there is even a small measurable difference between cables. I have bought many cables for many systems and I wasn't ever sure if it made any difference, I admit I thought I could have possibly been hearing an extremely subtle difference at certain points but it was not why I bought an aftermarket cable. I only ever bought cables for nice build and looks and for custom lengths and terminations. I have since learned to solder and now make all of my own cables. Anyway it's really nice to see just how exactly the same these different cables perform, obviously there is no audible difference or it would show up in the measurements, surely nobody can argue that.
Thanks for watching. And yes, it is certainly possible and even probable that you would sense some differences as such comparisons are very hard to do.
Quantum mechanics maybe? Could it be that by measuring, you become the "observer". Maybe all you hear are double slits? 🤔
I love the way light braided cables sit on my desk when using, they lay and bend nicely and stay out of the way, versus stock cables which are usually terrible. But damn like $200 is my LIMIT for cables.
Excellent review. Gracefully done.
Thank you kindly!
I admire your videos - the pacing and technical level is ideal. I would make one suggestion - in the case of headphone cables it might be important that there is a realistic current flowing in the cable. I did not notice you mention any particular termination in the analyser, so I assumed it was perhaps quite a high impedance, but it might make sense to put a 32 ohm load at the analyser end of the cable to represent a typical headphone load. (Some will ask for 600 ohms or some other value - also a valid point of view.) Most likely there would not be a difference in your findings. Crosstalk would probably remain the same, but magnetic coupling, either between conductors, or from the environment, might be be affected by the load impedance. The source impedance would dominate, I assume. A low load impedance could lessen pickup from outside the cable (such as those anomalies around 120Hz). It probably should make little difference to the effects from within the cable, but I would love to know. As an electronics engineer who had 15 years in audio (never a fan of "high-end" marketing hype, and recently retired), I always advised newcomers to "think about where the electrons go" - It's a great help when looking at noise, grounding and other issues. Thanks for all that you do in your videos.
I was expecting this :)
Brilliant! Now do Danny's speaker cables compared to electrical lamp-cord.
@Tom Foolery although I do believe Danny is a snake oil salesman to be fair redoing a crossover can make a difference in how a speaker sounds. Doesn't necessarily mean it's better just different.
Expect zero difference
I wouldn't expect a difference between 3 premium cables. The question is do they perform better than cheap cables? Maybe something you'd get off Amazon?
Because you can't show a difference between 3 high quality cables does not mean there isn't a line where quality matters.
Stumbled across this channel. Stunning objective analyses.
So the wires inside the actual headphones are always extremely thin yet the wire leading up to them is supposed to make a difference. And then with power cables for separates is the opposite. The wire inside the house is cheap and basic yet the last few feet of extremely expensive power cable is supposed to make a difference. These audiophools will buy anything
I am always amazed at the wire snake oil. For the most part, wires are simply wires. I have always used properly sized zip cord for speakers and nicely made cables for headphones. As Amir has shown, spending thousands of dollars on wire is always a losing proposition.
What budget braided cable would be a good option for my zmf atrium headphone ? It’a two mini xlr and I would prefer 2.5mm balanced termination
Good info.....please do more cable tests.
No need evert cable test done on the forum lead to the same conclusion over and over : there s no differences
I have a couple of speaker cable tests coming. And a power cable. :)
@@AudioScienceReview if people ask... Funny to see that everyone is like, "yeah but how about this one?" can't get the general idea that a cable will not matter and if you are paranoid take some nice 10 awg and you re done
@@AudioScienceReviewfancy Power cable... such a joke... I don't need to see the review. People who sell those are thief. You can't think different if you have just basic knowledge about electronics.
Thank you for the honesty!
I'd love to see this test using more modest stock cables for more modest headphones. Nice review!
Only differences will be over great lengths. And even then, is it really audible? Barely, if at all.
Thanks for the video, just an idea for blind test- get 3 sets of same headphone with 3 different types of cable - just a thought
You can also get some flexible custom XLR braided OOC copper cables just like these ones for about $50 from China :)
Indeed. I went and found some.
What source?
@@chethammer search for XLR OCC in Lunashops they have pretty much any cable that you could want, alternatively there is Aliexpress.
But did you use regular electrons or the specially curated bespoke dedicated audio electrons? You need to use the ones that were gathered during The Big War.
Some people collect bitcoin. I collect good electrons. Once I have enough of them, I will repeat the test per your suggestion!
I tend to use folks who build cables and sell on eBay in the UK. You get a nice, supple, well built, braided cable to specified length and connector type and colour for maybe £40 to £60. In my view well worth it. I feel no need to spend more. Same goes for interconnects. I haven't found anyone who builds speaker cable yet and unfortunately blue jeans cable ( which I understand are great value ) don't seem to sell in the UK. I use Chord and QED but not the expensive stuff.
Must concur, good diy cable from small vendors is by far the best value. You can find van damme lcofc assembled cables From uk on e bay. It is remarkably good stuff.
For me the significant difference between headphone cables is how much more microphonic some are than others. It's annoying hearing a loud sawing sound if I move my head and the cable rubs on my clothes. I find that cheap, thin, flexible, plastic coated cables tend to be better than thicker and more expensive cables, especially if they're sleeved in fabric.
IKR!!! I'm literally getting rid of these headphones for that exact reason...
that's not a microphonic phenomenon you're hearing and the conclusion/solution you found demonstrates it. it's a mechanical vibration transmission, imagine a stethoscope sort of situation...
to encounter microphonic issues, the electrical signal needs to be amplified after it passes thru the conductor.
there is no amplification of the signal happening between the amp and the headphone's transducers. the signal is already amplified as it travels thru the cable...
hope this helps.
That Video Thumbnail had me laughing right away :D
You noticed that? :) I figure if a cable is that good at transmitting the sound, maybe you can one can do away with the headphone and connect the wires directly to the ear!
Worst thing about some stock cables is the vibrations. I have one cable from them. It was actually cheaper than $200 I believe... Norne cables are well built and really nice looking. Customer support is solid is great too. Well worth it if you have flagship headphones with an ugly or stiff cable.
Hi Amir! Have you found this is also the same with interconnect cables? and would you happen to have some brands that you recommend as far as cables go?
Hi Amir, love your channel. With all the cable and equipment testing you do here, have you considered creating a "recommended" area on you channel? For example, I would find it succinctly useful to be able to quickly see what interconnects, cables, etc are "recommended" so I can confidently purchase. Thanks...your word is gold.
Any possibility there will be a review on the Drop + THX Panda Wireless Headphones?
Someone else's comment: "Jay Kay-Bull yeah yeah, Amir should test the cable hypothesis especially those IEMs with large impedance swings like the Campfire Andromeda or the ATH IM or LS balanced armatures. "
Is there a way to communicate questions about a review you performed? Thanks
Hi, Amir. Do balanced headphone cables make a difference relative to unbalanced ones? I have a headphone that uses unbalanced cable but would like to change the cable and install a balanced one. Your recommendation is highly appreciated.
I know it might seem like the same thing, but I'd be extremely curious to see this done with speaker cables, if you'd be willing to humour it - I've never experienced notable differences in headphone cables, but I took part in a listening test where people could consistently tell the difference between a Van Den Hul: The Wind, and an Audioquest: Oak cable. Roughly the same result was the case between Van Den Hul: The Air and Audioquest: Rocket 44, which would suggest the characteristics are fairly consistent across the two brands high end models, in case you cant get the specific cables.
It might be complete nonsense, the test just got me curious, since I generally hadn't been a particular "believer" in cables, and am now at least curious, since that test seemed to be an anomaly, even if anecdotal.
If there is a difference, then the high end cables are actually _worse_ and introducing some change in the audio that shouldn't be there. I've tested standard zip cord on both resistive loads and speakers and there's nothing to see. What goes in is what comes out, as one would expect. The whole "Litz" thing is a misunderstanding of why Litz wire exists in the first place. At audio anything works, but at higher frequencies (or for large diameter mains distribution cable), the skin effect from AC current becomes substantial, causing most of the current to be carried along the outside of the cable only, with little in the interior. By weaving the cables together (Litz wire, and Millikan wound high tension AC mains cable), the wire strands all pass between the interior and the exterior of the cable along its length, distributing the current and help alleviate the skin effect. In speaker cables and other cables, Litz wires wont make a difference at audio, and may cause EMI from interference pickup.
@@mysock351C Extending frequency response was not why we started using Litz wire. Like everything else, original wire extrusion resulted in fat stiff uncoated wires. That's fine strung pole to pole insulated separately. But the need came along to run multiple wires together so wire became cloth wrapped. Insulated now yes, but still not very flexible. And we could not extrude a fine enough wire. But we could produce a thin metal foil. But if was not strong enough to keep from breaking when flexed. So it was intertwined with cloth. The cloth provided the strength and form. The foil carried the signal. Worked for lower voltages where flexibility was needed like mic and headphone cables.
Thank you for this video Amir. I have a question that this video didn't answer, that is, can there be significant differences between cables in crosstalk? Headphone cables transmit some current, so maybe left/right channel separation plays some role?
most of the times I do switch cables but only to balanced option and that give my headphones more power so there is a difference 👍 and if I want it to look cool I pay extra for it
Amir, I want to see a video for multi-bit DAC vs sigma delta DACs. I think more then of few of us would.
I have tested a few. Plan to do a video on them.
@@AudioScienceReview cant wait
And also compare against FPGA.
@@AudioScienceReview I'd love to see that.
And also compare various filters sharp cut-off slow cut-off short delay, linear phase v minimum-phase.
I just picked up a pair of HifiMan Edition XS and the only reason I ordered aftermarket HART cables was due to the short cable length they provided. I like the quality of the rubberized cable provided but I need 10 feet and I would prefer not having to use an extension cable. I get that the cable length is ideal for use with cell phones so I can't really complain about that.
Back in the early 2000s Cardas cables for the HD650 were all the rage
Thanks Amir, another informative and entertaining review. I was always told that silver cables “sped up “ the signal and that’s why they were very good. In fact on speaker cables I was told that if I moved from copper to silver I no longer needed to keep the runs to each speaker the same length because the speed over silver negated the issue of the speakers being slightly out of phase. My empty wallet solved that conundrum but I would love to know if there is any truth in it. Also I would love for you to analyse from the other way, i.e. starting with a result and going backwards. So take two amplifiers where one sounds much better than the other, why is this? What does your analyser pick up that confirms one is actually better? Is it distortion or dynamics or what? Thanks again and please keep up the good work.
faster signal...that is some fascinating oil...one might even call it snake-like. and when people discuss amps that "sound better" it's almost always because the amp introduces distortion that is pleasurable to the ears for some folks. you will not really the tell the difference between most clean amps in a blind test. even many tube amps that don't add much distortion will still sound very similar to solid states.
Awesome as always
I wish this video was more popular.
I was thinking to get some Aliexpress cables for my Focal headphones, what do you reckon?
Thanks for your great videos.
Have you ever tested AC regenerator or any effective AC noise reduction solutions?
Yes I have. Plan to do more formal testing and post. I have both PS Audio one and my lab AC generator.
@@AudioScienceReview Thank you, I can't wait to see your upcoming results. What about this product? Any opinion or experience about it?
saticshield.com/energy-management-system/power-perfect-wire-in/
thank you really much for this one!
LOL, Jude at Head-Fi, and thousounds of other cable pundits' hearts, egos, and pocketbooks are now shattered. :-P
Thanks for that!
As long as the physical construction of the cable, its connectors, and their termination seem sound, I've always purchased interconnect and headphone cables based on how flexible/nice the cable and/or sheathing is in use, along with the quality & size/ease-of-use of the connectors.
In the Telecom and aerospace industries, the most critical part of any cable is its soldered or crimped termination quality, and the quality and longevity of the contact that the specific connectors that are used provide.
Good stuff, Amir. I can't thank you enough for providing these reviews and especially the data to dispel these perpetual myths! 👍👍
changing cables is like seasoning your food... subtle but noticeable differences...... once i tried 1/2 dozen speaker cables just to settle on one that blends well with the power amp and speakers.... but if you base your hifi experience on graphs and measurements then may as well just look at your gears and don't turn it on.....
Wow, its impressive to see how all the measurements are the same.
Very nice! I wonder if ANY legitimate cables on the market have any audible difference (for the worse)
I will keep testing until I find some.
If you EQ a pair of HD600's to be identical (frequency wise) to a Focal Stellia, would you be able to tell the difference between the 2 headphones (in terms of sound only)? What affects things like timbre? Does using different amps change the frequency response? If using different amps still gets you the same FR on a graph, why does changing amps change the sound overall?
You don't hear a difference because you think there's no difference. It's a placebo effect LOL.
Thank you for your lessons amir.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Hey Amir,
Do you know if Topping or SMSL will make new Power Amplifers for speakers? Something along the lines of the Benchmark AHB2.
Many review sites have praised the Benchmark AHB2, but it is $3,000 dollars, and it's a stereo amp, not monoblock.
Do you know if Topping or SMSL or whoever has plans to release a new product to compete with Benchmark in the power amp category?
Thanks a lot and keep up the good work!
Thanks for video. Another German speaker here, so lihts, not leitz, for stranded cables. No surprise about results. Have you ever seen headphone cables differ measurably? What is the contributing factor? Wire gauge? connector type? nothin'? Just wondering whether there is anything except feel one should pay attention to when shopping around. Looking for a shorter cable for my Dan Clark Ether 2.
There is a difference a cable can make though which is cable noise. The standard cable for the Meze 99Classics for example are terribly noisy when rubbing against clothing (for me at least), but their upgrade cables don't have this issue. In terms of sound quality I notice no difference. There could maybe be a slight difference, because I don't get distracted by cable noise and can just enjoy the music.
it's called microphonics
Amir, i believe these can make a difference. I had a situation with of my earphone's cable, it transferred every, even slightest touch, to the earphones, i heard when cable was rubbing clothes. So i changed it to fancy, silver coated, braided, 10 euro aliexpress hi-end cable and problem gone instantly.
Many Thanks, thats really refreshing News (":
whats Silver OCC ? Oxidized Copper Coated? this definately affects the sound but not in a good way haha
Would you look into "better power supply" topic next time? I time it is another great one not already discussed here. Because it seems that really every people recommend "upgrade" the power supply to even low end stuff like Topping E30 with some fancy switching power supply or linear. Is there some truth in there? Thanks in advanced.
And work we use Phase Stable Cables for testing equipment... This means the frequency response is always the same no matter how you move the cable. Not sure if the audio world has something like this yet.
yeah.. bought some silver balanced cables for my shure se 846 and se535 and it took out all the bass... had to go back to the stock cable
Brilliant video Amir. Now the headphone crowd can have their snake oil cake and eat it too. 😂🐍🤑
:)
the secret is matching a cable to the right IEM or Headphones......I might not be special, but I love music and can tell a difference between Copper and Silver !
Interesting! Many might not believe you, can you upload a video of you doing a blind test and getting it right 8/10 times?
He can’t.
People really pay thousands for cables when they could drink two beers and hear their system improve by 30%
It is alarming that so many people are fooled by snake oil, and not just in audio. This indicates a serious inadequacy in the education system. Our kids are not being taught basic science and how to think critically.
Definitely an educational issue. Even an engineer graduating from college can miss the basics here.
The only difference between my £14 and £35 IEM cable (and it is a big one) is how much noise it picks up from the cable rubbing or “microphonics”.
The £14 cable has about 80% more at a rough guess
The guys over at Abyss also have a company that sells very high end cables. Theirs aren't even the most expensive ones you can get. I've found cables upwards of 10K online. It blows me away. Human ears are great, but they aren't that discerning.
I've never heard any difference in cheap cables either. Feel is a big thing though. The springy garden hose cable that come with Hifiman Sundara was driving me crazy. I like Hart audio cables. Reasonably priced, good feel, and their multikits are good for connecting to various amps.
How much is the input impedance of the oscilloscope?
They can improve things if the impedance of them does what you like to the sound. Everyone knows an impedance change or mis-match in audio cables can change the sound, either make it worse, or make it better.
If a headphone cable’s impedance is so high that it’s making a sound difference. The headphone cable is defective. Send it back to the manufacturer and explain the problem. They will work to correct it.
Even 5 dollar generic cables have beyond perfectly low impedance.
And the effect of high impedance would be a high pass or a low pass filter. And a very bad one at that. You don’t want to have such a filter which most probably designed itself through a manufacturing fluke/fault.
Better buy the 5 dollar cable. And use a professionally designed filter. If you want the best of such an effect.
Cable Impedance mostly effected on very sensitive multi BA earphones which causing frequency swing other then that just fantasy
@@BwanaJesuasifiwe Do you admit they can make a difference then.
@@phototristan if its defective yes, its like if you buy a very accurate compass for a hiking trip, it won't make you get lost in the woods but if your compass shows north as south then why would you want such a compass in the first place? why do you want a cable with filtering qualities? cables are meant to be transparent as standard because if you design cables to be filters they make for lousy, unreliable , unpredictable filters. which can only degrade the sound. no one does that, its only in theory they can make a difference but no one is stupid enough to intentionally build such cables. why not just buy a perfectly conducting cable and use a high quality designed reliable filter if that's what you want? But of course audiophiles are tin foil brain wearing cookoos who can't be persuaded by logic and reason.
But even manufactures of high end expensive cables are not crazy enough to build high impedance cables, they will only use it as an excuse to claim cable difference to poor foolish audiophiles who in the end buy a cable with the same impedance parameters as that of 5 dollar one. enjoy
I did try compare copper cable and silver cable, it have dramatically change in tonal character. The silver cable have excessive high frequency presentation!
That is a classic observation helped by the image of silver than any sound it produces. I suggest performing blind tests if you think otherwise.
You can always send them to Danny to see if they make good antennas!
Video idea - Your take on upsampling (DSD via Roon for example).
Yeah, all the IEM manufacturers (and armature manufacturers) know the only wire that really matters is inside the housing. Varied diameter wire brings different impedance to the armature, and can all be messed with for fine tuning. But the main cable itself is always bigger than those tiny wires and doesn't matter.
I might just be dumb but on that first chart, isnt there a difference of ~7.5 db in that area about 10khz
theres those 3 dips after 5khz the one before 10khz and the one right after i can see a color gradient, blue is the lowest, followed by orange then brown, and theres also a small dip (like maybe a db/half a db)
Im not going to claim that it makes a difference or is audible because quite frankly im in the camp of "only buy nice cables because theyre built like a tank or for the aesthetics"
But if im not seeing things i would be curious about why theres a difference there
You mean the venerable and smarter headphone community can be audio- fooled too? I’m in the wrong business!
They look like nice ornaments.
I would have expected the silver cable to have a slightly lower resistance and therefore produce a slightly higher sound level. A next to nothing increase and completely inaudible, but still measurable. Lovely to be proven wrong. By the way compared to what most other cable companies charge for similar these are almost bargains.
One measurement would be to test "microphonics".. because at least theoretically, the braided cables will be worse as they are loosely around each other, allowing much greater movement of the conductors in relation with each other.
Yes, I need to devise a test that is repeatable for that.
I've heard people be like buying a 30$ IEM with a 30$ upgrade cable and describing the difference like it's an entirely new IEM.
That said, how about the difference between impedance?
😍🤗Nice work. I enjoy it.
Can you do a video or test on MP3 vs FLAC vs MQA?
Who would have thought...
This whole debate can be basically summed up into one solid piece of good audiophile advice. When it comes to headphone cables, just stay away from those silver plated copper cables. the two different metals have different transport characteristics and you don't want them together, either pick all silver or all copper. That's all anybody really wants you to try. If you're using good gear then you will notice the sibilance and distortion introduced.
By now I’m surprised the cable didn’t make things worse. *cough* audioquest
Its not bad to buy medium price cable since they are more durable and looks better.
Nobody blames someone buying a cable for the looks or durability...is the Bullshit magical claims people make which we don't tolerate