Thank you Hans for a very good explanation of how USB works with audio. 'Bits are just Bits'. Better recordings are usually better 'Bits'. I've started telling my friends and family it's the mechanics of the software and the interaction of magnetics on the hardware that affect the electrical signal carrying the precious 'Bits'. I have learned a lot from you these past years. Again. Thank You!
Thanks Hans. On another topic, I know you've discussed WiFi as a network audio medium before but I think a film on best practice to set up the ideal WiFi network for hi-fi would be great. So many devices are WiFi capable yet it seems the common belief is that it's a convenience and shouldn't be used as a serious solution to streaming audio.
Another great one, Hans. Glad you pointed out politely the three possibilities if someone can't hear differences. I know guys with $500k systems that suffer from at least one of those three possibilities.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Hello Hans - in your opinion : assuming that all else is equal and high quality in a system, is a PROPERLY implemented USB connection superior in sound reproduction to a PROPERLY implemented fibre optic cable ? thanks and cheers and congratulations on your high quality videos!
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thank you SO much for your reply Hans! OKAY let me rephrase that Q . . . is a high quality USB cable POTENTIALLY better than an optic cable - the reason I ask is that my intuition tells me that no audible interference can be transmitted in light - am I wrong to assume that?
Thank you sir. There is so much hype attached to audio in general and digital audio in particular. USB seems to be a current hot button. Your clear explanation allows us to filter out some of the hype.
Very nice channel, I was looking for direct to the point, no fluff, presentation and explanations, found it here, subscribed. I realize this is a year old post but I have a somewhat related question, getting into 32-bit, found an ESS Sabre DAC PC motherboard and stereo DAC Preamp both rated at 32-bit 384 kHz to play music files from my computer to my stereo system over optical. Why does it appear the full spec of the DAC 32-bit 384 kHz is not presented to the optical ports, only to the USB ports? It appears the optical ports are only capable of 24-bit 192 kHz even though the DAC is 32-bit 384 kHz rated. I currently run 24-bit 192 kHz over optical from my PC to my stereo preamp DAC that is 24-bit 192 kHz. I wanted to upgrade to 32-bit 384 kHz using the optical ports but is looking like I need to shift to audio capable USB cable in order to get the full 32-bit 384 kHz. Thoughts? Thank you. Note, I think I understand properly that the PC's DAC in this situation is not using the analog conversion part of the DAC since it is pushing a digital signal over optical and it is the stereo's preamp that receives that signal that is actually doing the analog conversion part.
The optical connection is always limited to 24 bit 192 kHz. And if you go digital out on the PC, the DAC chip is not used at all so having an ESS DAC is of no importance. Consider buying a separate streamer. like those by WiiM or better.
Hi, Hans. I acquired an Auralic G1.1 to use on a second system (the main one has an Auralic G2.2 and I will upgrade it to the new upcoming G3). Presently, I am using an SOtM pair consisting of the sMS-200ultra Neo Special Edition and a tX-USBultra Special Edition which are the connected to a Denafrips Gaia and from there to a PS Audio Direct Stream DAC via I2S. The Gaia has made a significant improvement over the direct connection of the USBultra to the DAC, since this was a USB connection while the Gaia allows me to use the I2S connection, which sounds much better. The question is if it would be beneficial to use the Gaia with the Auralic as this streamer has a USB output and no I2S. I have many DSD files up to 256, which would require either the USB or the I2S connection. I shall appreciate your learned view on this.
You forgot "audiophile" PCIE USB cards, like the JCAT USB XE Card, powered by an external silent 5v PS. This can make an enormous difference (in my experience) but it's certainly not cheap.
I have drawn the line at connecting DAC's directly to a computer. Sorry. It's expensive to get a computer to sound right. Use a normal computer as storage and music server and then use a network bridge for audio output.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I use the Matrix Element H USB pcie card, together with an iFi external power supply and a Supra USB cable to great effect. It's not cheap but at around $500 in total, I wouldn't call it expensive given the rest of my system.
Thanks Hans, another fascinating subject. You mentioned burning in, could you pick that for a future subject? I agree it's a good thing to do but am not sure how to go about it. can you switch kit off further down the line? If so what happens when you burn in speakers, is there a way to do this without disturbing the aesthetics committee or the neighbours?
Burning in cables is simple: take a cd- or network player, have it play on repeat 24/7 for a week with the cable connected. For loudspeakers: put them 'nose to nose', with the baffles almost touching, reverse the polarity on one of the two loudspeakers and have it play music on a low level for some days. When done properly, you will only hear some high frequencies. You don't need to do that with the loudspeakers in the living. Have some cheap speakers and amp to do that.
Hans, I really love your content. However, I was caught off guard when you started talking about cable "burn in". I cannot understand how a cable can change over time. Could you please explain in this in more detail?
No one has ever been able to demonstrate any effect. It is an extraordinary claim contrary to any possible measurement, every generally accepted theory of physics, it is against math and also the objective and subjective opinion of every audio professional on planet earth. It thus demands extraordinary proof. This channel does not provide this, but I guess it is for light entertainment purpose only.
Dave and his Wireworld business has been high value, high performance, and usually a half dozen series options for each cable protocol. Was lucky enough to discover Wireworld in ~2004 and never looked back.
I'd like to see you do a segment on the Dutch & Dutch 8c speakers, driven by their AES/EBU connector directly from a streamer. I haven't seen a decent breakdown of if the sound is better by keeping everything entirely in the digital domain. Internet to streamer to 8C via AES would be a fascinating test, especially if you also try an alternate signal path that includes a streamer with internal DAC and then the streamer bypassing its internal DAC and using a top quality external DAC. Thanks for all your amazingly informative content!
Hans, thank you for such a detailed explanation. Would you say that if USB chain is done right, it has the potential to sound as good as I²S or better?
My question is: why don't DAC manufacturers and especially streamers manufacturers strive to make I²S the standard audio interface? (Even the most expensive Auralic and Aurender models don't have I²S output). Is it because USB - provided it is implemented as it should - is not worse?@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
I have to confess that I usually have trouble hearing differences in DACs so the effect of burning in an audio USB cable would most likely be lost on me. But based on your comments I am now interested in isolating my Mac mini (running Audirvana) from the DAC.
I asked myself, What can a streamer do my laptop can't? The laptop can run any software I want, right? And then came this video. Probably found an upgrade path here. Thanks Hans!
I find it difficult to jump into routed or cloud based audio. I just became accustomed to tube amps. However, I guess I'll have to apply myself and get used to it.
@@sdrtcacgnrjrc haha i guess so. i think he means there is too much going on to be able to keep up with it. I have trouble with it also. I dont think i will be going to use USB for music. For me USB is for a mouse and keyboard.
I used to use an gen 1 Bluesound node. On some tracks, high pitched sounds would sound awful and distorted (eg. violas or high notes from a piano). I wonder if that was extreme jitter (?)
I connect my MAC mini optically to my DAC. Is there a better way...Wireless? I just have no idea. My other main listening system is a pair of Buchard A700 wireless active speakers, with Platin hub wireless front end. I stream using chromacast from my phone, or apple air play from my minimac. Do you think this would be better for my "bedroom" system (Mac..optical...dac..amp...speakers) which with the hub would become (mac...wireless...Platin hub...amp...speakers)
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel can you give an example of a device where optical is worse than usb? Does it depend on usb chips like xmos xu208? what if I have an electrically noisy environment and long wires, in this case is optical preferred?
I would love to hear your thought on using AES 50 Dante and AES 67 Ravena for transporting audio on Ethernet. These are both multi-channel systems used in the pro works. They are reliable, easy to use and high quality. I used Ravena to connect systems for DXD/DSD multitrack recordings of classical music.
As a techno-moron I do my best to follow your videos. Glad that you take time to pass on Streaming tweaks. I though getting out of TT and into streaming I was going to dodge the various ancillary components but Oh No Honey... Thanks!!
Hello Hans, thanks for your info. I have plans to buy the Coffee or Diamond usb-cable from Audioquest. Do you think it is worth to buy the most expensive Diamond version? My equipment is really high end. I am playing via the DAC of my Accuphase E5000 amplifier. Thanks already for your reaction.
Perhaps buy & try both? If there's a difference send the cheaper one back, if there's no difference send the more expensive one back, if there's no difference with the existing situation send both back
@@hudosytuk Sorry, I can’t follow your point there. My comment was simply that filtering out RFI is a separate issue from the influence (if any) of clocking matters. And a Jitterbug and a reclocker work in very different ways.
It filters out electronic noise. It has no direct influence on the clock signal. But it introduces jitter during D to A conversion. Watch: th-cam.com/video/B-StTplQZys/w-d-xo.html
A poorly clocked USB signal will cause the receiver chip to work harder to decode the USB signal, and as a result inject more noise/jitter into its output, even if its reclocked locally, at least that's the way I understand it
Regarding platforms for the electronics, reviewer Darko recommends (and I can confirm by testing),better than hard wood is Ikea Aptitlig butchers block (bamboo) + Atacama Gel Pads.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Agreed, but would also note the Ikea Aptitlig boards are rather thick (3.3cm) and are wide and deep enough to support most gear, so offer a tremendous bang for buck. Especially when rested on Atacama isolation gel pads. My system was already quite resolving, but applying this budget tweak I can hear new percussion details on about half of the tracks I listen to.
Have you taken analogue WAV samples from the output of the same DAC driven from a basic class 2 USB connection Vs any of these products? If there's a difference you should see it in the delta of the WAV files.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel sorry, your answer is not clear. Do you mean you haven't tested it in this way, or you have tested it and there's no difference?
I have a hard time believing a USB cable has a burn in period. Especially anything more than a few seconds. Ethernet cables can also carry noise, albeit almost always much less. Proper Galvanic isolation still needed if you want a near perfect scenario. Another point to make, if you’re connecting to PC USB then connect directly to the motherboard and preferably the main chipset. Connecting to the front panels will introduce more noise along the cable and other chipsets can also introduce more noise (or worse for Class 1).
Try it. Buy two audio class USB cables, use one for a few weeks and then compare then. If you don't hear a difference, your stereo might not be of sufficient quality or set up less optimal. Or your auditory system doesn't focus on the right things.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel -OR it is already optimal and there is negligible amounts of noise on 2 data lines that are already being isolated for, so almost any cable will provide an identical experience. I’d go as far as to say (beyond burn-in), if you’re hearing a difference with high quality vs. “Audiophile grade” USB cables then the system is definitely not optimal and there are significant weak points in the digital pathway
@@mikemajors2385 you’re missing it and being ignorant. But I’ll bite. What changes after weeks of running a cable in the same setup? Basically 2 things (ignoring oxidation/corrosion), if controlled. Temperature and the positioning of the electrons. From a new cable running in a system, the electrons will reach their native states in less than a minute of operation. Temperature takes longer but not 2 weeks. Sure if you take it out of the box from sitting cold outside and throw it in the system, and have a highly resolving system with digital pathway issues, then you MAY notice a difference once the cable reaches an equilibrium temperature. That’s it. Digital is not analog. Yes, analogous noise can still propagate along digital cables, but for different reasons and results differently. A good quality shielded cable AND equipment that is properly designed to handle USB (not as an after thought feature) will have effectively no difference in switching to whatever unobtanium audiophile cable you throw at it and no difference in burn-in, beyond the stated above, extreme temperature scenario, unless your source or end point are poorly designed (read: shitting out noise) and unable to mitigate it. Then you may have a scenario where a “better” cable might make a difference, but again -cable burn-in is not going to make a difference outside of ~an hour. I will however test this and report back. If I’m wrong, I’ll eat my shoe. I’ve tested tons of this before (some surprising, others not), but never a 2 week cable burn-in. I challenge you though, please tell me what else a 2 week cable burn-in is going to change? Will the changes go away when not in use? After how long? Is the burn-in permanent? Why? What is physically changing?
I was trying TH-cam super thanks. I tried it the previous evening, but this next morning, it worked well. Thank you 😎👍. I'm able to understand well from your teaching style.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I'm willing to be proved wrong. Are there any measurement results showing this burn-in effect? We know that metals alter their properties from heat treatment and mechanical stress, but I've never seen any evidence for electrical signals changing those properties. We know dielectric absorption is a thing, so the properties of those will change slightly over time. It tends to show up in very high-voltage capacitors. I have never heard it mentioned as affecting the properties of transmission lines, which is what USB cables are effectively. The bit that confuses me is that even if there is some change of conductors and insulators over time, there's no reason to assume that would be in the direction that would improve performance.
It seems Hans has missed discussing explicitly the most obvious solution, using a DAC with a competent USB section. I’m sure all the devices he mentions can solve issues that some DACs may have, but many or all of these devices are made irrelevant by a DAC with a quality USB input. With establishment of USB Audio Class 2 nearly 15 years ago now, there is no fundamental technical remedy discussed here that can’t or shouldn’t be done in a quality USB DAC input.
O, but I agree completely. If both the USB output on the sending device and the input on the receiving device are perfectly designed and built, It offers the same quality as with perfectly applied AES/EBU, I²S or SPDIF. But these are scarce, I'm afraid.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Correct me if I’m wrong… I thought SPDIF (optical TOSLINK or RCA coax) is fundamentally flawed in the same way USB Audio Class 1 is flawed: data is clocked at the source. The DAC is unable to control the flow of data and therefore cannot fully control jitter; no amount of careful DAC implementation can correct the problem. Jitter performance with these connections becomes a function of the source. USB Audio Class 2 (and maybe also I2S, not sure) puts the DAC in control and the quality of its implementation determines jitter performance.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Hans, I just ordered a Lumin U2 streamer which has a fiber optic network output. Have you tested this before and how it compared to all the other audio outputs on a streamer?
Thanks for yet another great informative video 🙏🏻 May I ask whether and how far the length of USB cables matter to sound quality? We certainly cannot use cables shorter than we need. But we may have some cables in hand which may be longer than necessary, especially after we arrange equipments after moving places. Thanks again.
This comment may be a direct reflection of my poor digital knowledge, but, doesn’t a USB type B have no power return? Reducing electrical noise. I use an audio grade USBC to USB type B cable to connect my Apple device to my DAC. My DAC only has 1 USB type B input, so I employ a USB type B to toslink adapter for other Apple devices. Your comments welcomed!
USB B has two data lines that are used bidirectional or unidirectional, depending on the mode used. And it has a +5 volt power line that comes from the sending device.
@@westernartifact580 please explain. Rather a sweeping statement I feel, when you have no concept of which Apple devices I employ. What adaptations I make to them and what equipment I pair them with plus, although it’s true to say that I use apple products to stream music, they are not my only streaming device, or indeed, music source. So I have plenty of comparisons, not involving Apple products. I look forward to a full explanation of that sweeping statement.
Thank you Hans for a very good explanation of how USB works with audio.
'Bits are just Bits'. Better recordings are usually better 'Bits'.
I've started telling my friends and family it's the mechanics of the software and the interaction of magnetics on the hardware that affect the electrical signal carrying the precious 'Bits'.
I have learned a lot from you these past years.
Again. Thank You!
You are welcome!
All too often a TH-cam video is published by a "this is my first time" expert. It's good to find educated/informed sources. Thanks.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks Hans. On another topic, I know you've discussed WiFi as a network audio medium before but I think a film on best practice to set up the ideal WiFi network for hi-fi would be great. So many devices are WiFi capable yet it seems the common belief is that it's a convenience and shouldn't be used as a serious solution to streaming audio.
There are sufficient good videos on TH-cam about Wifi.
Another great one, Hans. Glad you pointed out politely the three possibilities if someone can't hear differences. I know guys with $500k systems that suffer from at least one of those three possibilities.
As long as you enjoy the music🥴
professional and comprehensible even to laymen, thank you
🙏🙏
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Hello Hans - in your opinion : assuming that all else is equal and high quality in a system, is a PROPERLY implemented USB connection superior in sound reproduction to a PROPERLY implemented fibre optic cable ? thanks and cheers and congratulations on your high quality videos!
I should add that the USB cable I have is made by CAD in England - the power is in a separate wire to the signal wires :-)
If, and only if, you could find such devices, they would sound equal. Let me know if you ever come across such a setup. 😁
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thank you SO much for your reply Hans! OKAY let me rephrase that Q . . . is a high quality USB cable POTENTIALLY better than an optic cable - the reason I ask is that my intuition tells me that no audible interference can be transmitted in light - am I wrong to assume that?
Audio quest has an anti jitter usb stick that is attached between usb and pc. Works very subtle if not placebo in my setup
Yes, it's called the Jitterbug and I mention it in the video.
Thanks!
You too
Thank you sir. There is so much hype attached to audio in general and digital audio in particular. USB seems to be a current hot button. Your clear explanation allows us to filter out some of the hype.
My pleasure
Very nice channel, I was looking for direct to the point, no fluff, presentation and explanations, found it here, subscribed. I realize this is a year old post but I have a somewhat related question, getting into 32-bit, found an ESS Sabre DAC PC motherboard and stereo DAC Preamp both rated at 32-bit 384 kHz to play music files from my computer to my stereo system over optical. Why does it appear the full spec of the DAC 32-bit 384 kHz is not presented to the optical ports, only to the USB ports? It appears the optical ports are only capable of 24-bit 192 kHz even though the DAC is 32-bit 384 kHz rated.
I currently run 24-bit 192 kHz over optical from my PC to my stereo preamp DAC that is 24-bit 192 kHz. I wanted to upgrade to 32-bit 384 kHz using the optical ports but is looking like I need to shift to audio capable USB cable in order to get the full 32-bit 384 kHz. Thoughts? Thank you.
Note, I think I understand properly that the PC's DAC in this situation is not using the analog conversion part of the DAC since it is pushing a digital signal over optical and it is the stereo's preamp that receives that signal that is actually doing the analog conversion part.
The optical connection is always limited to 24 bit 192 kHz. And if you go digital out on the PC, the DAC chip is not used at all so having an ESS DAC is of no importance. Consider buying a separate streamer. like those by WiiM or better.
Hi, Hans. I acquired an Auralic G1.1 to use on a second system (the main one has an Auralic G2.2 and I will upgrade it to the new upcoming G3). Presently, I am using an SOtM pair consisting of the sMS-200ultra Neo Special Edition and a tX-USBultra Special Edition which are the connected to a Denafrips Gaia and from there to a PS Audio Direct Stream DAC via I2S. The Gaia has made a significant improvement over the direct connection of the USBultra to the DAC, since this was a USB connection while the Gaia allows me to use the I2S connection, which sounds much better. The question is if it would be beneficial to use the Gaia with the Auralic as this streamer has a USB output and no I2S. I have many DSD files up to 256, which would require either the USB or the I2S connection. I shall appreciate your learned view on this.
I have never tried that combination so I can't say.
You forgot "audiophile" PCIE USB cards, like the JCAT USB XE Card, powered by an external silent 5v PS. This can make an enormous difference (in my experience) but it's certainly not cheap.
Which one then? I don't know of any DAC that is insensitive to the quality of the source.
I have drawn the line at connecting DAC's directly to a computer. Sorry. It's expensive to get a computer to sound right. Use a normal computer as storage and music server and then use a network bridge for audio output.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I use the Matrix Element H USB pcie card, together with an iFi external power supply and a Supra USB cable to great effect. It's not cheap but at around $500 in total, I wouldn't call it expensive given the rest of my system.
Thanks Hans, another fascinating subject. You mentioned burning in, could you pick that for a future subject?
I agree it's a good thing to do but am not sure how to go about it. can you switch kit off further down the line? If so what happens when you burn in speakers, is there a way to do this without disturbing the aesthetics committee or the neighbours?
Burning in cables is simple: take a cd- or network player, have it play on repeat 24/7 for a week with the cable connected. For loudspeakers: put them 'nose to nose', with the baffles almost touching, reverse the polarity on one of the two loudspeakers and have it play music on a low level for some days. When done properly, you will only hear some high frequencies. You don't need to do that with the loudspeakers in the living. Have some cheap speakers and amp to do that.
Hans, I really love your content. However, I was caught off guard when you started talking about cable "burn in". I cannot understand how a cable can change over time. Could you please explain in this in more detail?
No, I have no clue. But the effect is really obvious.
No one has ever been able to demonstrate any effect. It is an extraordinary claim contrary to any possible measurement, every generally accepted theory of physics, it is against math and also the objective and subjective opinion of every audio professional on planet earth.
It thus demands extraordinary proof. This channel does not provide this, but I guess it is for light entertainment purpose only.
Wireworld Cable makes USB cables that have a separation between data and power cables.
There are more, like Network Acoustics
Dave and his Wireworld business has been high value, high performance, and usually a half dozen series options for each cable protocol. Was lucky enough to discover Wireworld in ~2004 and never looked back.
I just subscribed to this channel, amazing source to learn. Didn't realize that a network bridge connected to a DAC would be a better solution.
Thanks!
I'd like to see you do a segment on the Dutch & Dutch 8c speakers, driven by their AES/EBU connector directly from a streamer. I haven't seen a decent breakdown of if the sound is better by keeping everything entirely in the digital domain. Internet to streamer to 8C via AES would be a fascinating test, especially if you also try an alternate signal path that includes a streamer with internal DAC and then the streamer bypassing its internal DAC and using a top quality external DAC.
Thanks for all your amazingly informative content!
I'll consider it (no promise though)
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel That would be fantastic, thank you for considering it!
Hans, thank you for such a detailed explanation. Would you say that if USB chain is done right, it has the potential to sound as good as I²S or better?
Every digital interface works great when done perfectly. USB, however, often is done poorly, especially on computers.
My question is: why don't DAC manufacturers and especially streamers manufacturers strive to make I²S the standard audio interface? (Even the most expensive Auralic and Aurender models don't have I²S output). Is it because USB - provided it is implemented as it should - is not worse?@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
I have to confess that I usually have trouble hearing differences in DACs so the effect of burning in an audio USB cable would most likely be lost on me. But based on your comments I am now interested in isolating my Mac mini (running Audirvana) from the DAC.
The best way is to use a network bridge or streamer.
I mean audible quality.
I asked myself, What can a streamer do my laptop can't? The laptop can run any software I want, right? And then came this video. Probably found an upgrade path here. Thanks Hans!
👍🏻
I find it difficult to jump into routed or cloud based audio. I just became accustomed to tube amps. However, I guess I'll have to apply myself and get used to it.
Well, as long as you enjoy the music...
Wont that music go through your tube amp anyways? EDIT// maybe I misunderstood your comment
@@sdrtcacgnrjrc haha i guess so. i think he means there is too much going on to be able to keep up with it. I have trouble with it also. I dont think i will be going to use USB for music. For me USB is for a mouse and keyboard.
I've cut the 5v. Use a Power bank to source the 5v through the USB plug or the power port if available. What do you think on using power banks for 5v?
They are noisy.
I used to use an gen 1 Bluesound node. On some tracks, high pitched sounds would sound awful and distorted (eg. violas or high notes from a piano). I wonder if that was extreme jitter (?)
No, these are called glitches that occur when the streamer is malfunctioning.
I connect my MAC mini optically to my DAC. Is there a better way...Wireless? I just have no idea.
My other main listening system is a pair of Buchard A700 wireless active speakers, with Platin hub wireless front end. I stream using chromacast from my phone, or apple air play from my minimac. Do you think this would be better for my "bedroom" system (Mac..optical...dac..amp...speakers) which with the hub would become (mac...wireless...Platin hub...amp...speakers)
A network bridge is the clearly better option.
Ok I will look into setting this up and comparing. Thank you so much@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
Nicely done, Hanz . . .
Thanks
why not use optic cable spdif instead of usb with all these extra accessories?
My preference for digital audio is AES/EBU, SPDIF 0r I²S, TOSlink and than USB Audio Class 2. But in some cases USB is the better or only option.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel can you give an example of a device where optical is worse than usb? Does it depend on usb chips like xmos xu208?
what if I have an electrically noisy environment and long wires, in this case is optical preferred?
I would love to hear your thought on using AES 50 Dante and AES 67 Ravena for transporting audio on Ethernet. These are both multi-channel systems used in the pro works. They are reliable, easy to use and high quality. I used Ravena to connect systems for DXD/DSD multitrack recordings of classical music.
It's not what I focus on yet
Thank you for all the information.
My pleasure
Hi Hans, how can i get the audio from a Behringer XR18 or Wing to a computer over USB as clean as possible. Great video BTW. Grtz Rene
I have no idea. Don’t know the Behringer products
As a techno-moron I do my best to follow your videos. Glad that you take time to pass on Streaming tweaks. I though getting out of TT and into streaming I was going to dodge the various ancillary components but Oh No Honey... Thanks!!
Glad to help
This is going to be interesting 🔊🎧
I hope so
Hello Hans, thanks for your info. I have plans to buy the Coffee or Diamond usb-cable from Audioquest. Do you think it is worth to buy the most expensive Diamond version? My equipment is really high end. I am playing via the DAC of my Accuphase E5000 amplifier. Thanks already for your reaction.
That depends on factors I can’t see from here. Therefore - and because of time restraints - I don’t do personal buying advice. Sorry.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel thanks for your answer. I do understand.
Perhaps buy & try both? If there's a difference send the cheaper one back, if there's no difference send the more expensive one back, if there's no difference with the existing situation send both back
If source clock doesn't matter for usb audio 2, why aq jitterbug and similar devices would have any influence?
What can they do on the signal?
The answer may be that they act as RFI filters, which is an electrical rather than a clock issue.
@@colingreen4357 jitterbug and that reclocker don't have optical galvanic isolation, as far as i am aware, so there's no isolation
@@hudosytuk Sorry, I can’t follow your point there. My comment was simply that filtering out RFI is a separate issue from the influence (if any) of clocking matters. And a Jitterbug and a reclocker work in very different ways.
It filters out electronic noise. It has no direct influence on the clock signal. But it introduces jitter during D to A conversion. Watch: th-cam.com/video/B-StTplQZys/w-d-xo.html
A poorly clocked USB signal will cause the receiver chip to work harder to decode the USB signal, and as a result inject more noise/jitter into its output, even if its reclocked locally, at least that's the way I understand it
Regarding platforms for the electronics, reviewer Darko recommends (and I can confirm by testing),better than hard wood is Ikea Aptitlig butchers block (bamboo) + Atacama Gel Pads.
bamboo is the key word here. Doesn't have to be ikea
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Agreed, but would also note the Ikea Aptitlig boards are rather thick (3.3cm) and are wide and deep enough to support most gear, so offer a tremendous bang for buck. Especially when rested on Atacama isolation gel pads. My system was already quite resolving, but applying this budget tweak I can hear new percussion details on about half of the tracks I listen to.
Would be very interesting to see a reveiw of the Pink Faun I2S Bridge.
I don’t have a Windows computer that has PCI slots. Sorry
no need for windows, just Linux on AMD CPU@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
Have you taken analogue WAV samples from the output of the same DAC driven from a basic class 2 USB connection Vs any of these products? If there's a difference you should see it in the delta of the WAV files.
No you don't.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel you've done this and there's no difference?
@@Chris-hy6jy of course not
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel sorry, your answer is not clear. Do you mean you haven't tested it in this way, or you have tested it and there's no difference?
There is no relevant difference to see on a scope.
Hi is it possible that you review the Primare SC15 Prisma Dac Pre amp?
I'll dive into it.
If HDMI out from the source is available, to HDMI in, is that preferable to using USB? Tks
In general, not. HDMI has audio chopped up in between the video information. Reconstruction can be good but is not guaranteed.
I have a hard time believing a USB cable has a burn in period. Especially anything more than a few seconds. Ethernet cables can also carry noise, albeit almost always much less. Proper Galvanic isolation still needed if you want a near perfect scenario. Another point to make, if you’re connecting to PC USB then connect directly to the motherboard and preferably the main chipset. Connecting to the front panels will introduce more noise along the cable and other chipsets can also introduce more noise (or worse for Class 1).
I guess you haven`t learned everything effects everything yet. It will come with more experience.
Try it. Buy two audio class USB cables, use one for a few weeks and then compare then. If you don't hear a difference, your stereo might not be of sufficient quality or set up less optimal. Or your auditory system doesn't focus on the right things.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel -OR it is already optimal and there is negligible amounts of noise on 2 data lines that are already being isolated for, so almost any cable will provide an identical experience. I’d go as far as to say (beyond burn-in), if you’re hearing a difference with high quality vs. “Audiophile grade” USB cables then the system is definitely not optimal and there are significant weak points in the digital pathway
@@mikemajors2385 you’re missing it and being ignorant. But I’ll bite. What changes after weeks of running a cable in the same setup? Basically 2 things (ignoring oxidation/corrosion), if controlled. Temperature and the positioning of the electrons. From a new cable running in a system, the electrons will reach their native states in less than a minute of operation. Temperature takes longer but not 2 weeks. Sure if you take it out of the box from sitting cold outside and throw it in the system, and have a highly resolving system with digital pathway issues, then you MAY notice a difference once the cable reaches an equilibrium temperature. That’s it. Digital is not analog. Yes, analogous noise can still propagate along digital cables, but for different reasons and results differently. A good quality shielded cable AND equipment that is properly designed to handle USB (not as an after thought feature) will have effectively no difference in switching to whatever unobtanium audiophile cable you throw at it and no difference in burn-in, beyond the stated above, extreme temperature scenario, unless your source or end point are poorly designed (read: shitting out noise) and unable to mitigate it. Then you may have a scenario where a “better” cable might make a difference, but again -cable burn-in is not going to make a difference outside of ~an hour. I will however test this and report back. If I’m wrong, I’ll eat my shoe. I’ve tested tons of this before (some surprising, others not), but never a 2 week cable burn-in. I challenge you though, please tell me what else a 2 week cable burn-in is going to change? Will the changes go away when not in use? After how long? Is the burn-in permanent? Why? What is physically changing?
If harmonics doesn’t concern you then yes wouldn’t hear it.
Fantastic work!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom 😎👍
I'm trying to send a Thanks donation... But there is an error... Saying I already own the payment? 🤔
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I was trying TH-cam super thanks. I tried it the previous evening, but this next morning, it worked well. Thank you 😎👍. I'm able to understand well from your teaching style.
Great explanation
Glad you liked it
great message !
but how about "quality video" ?
I only do audio
It all seemed very sensible and reasonable until the cable burn-in point.
And that doesn't make you think?
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I'm willing to be proved wrong. Are there any measurement results showing this burn-in effect? We know that metals alter their properties from heat treatment and mechanical stress, but I've never seen any evidence for electrical signals changing those properties. We know dielectric absorption is a thing, so the properties of those will change slightly over time. It tends to show up in very high-voltage capacitors. I have never heard it mentioned as affecting the properties of transmission lines, which is what USB cables are effectively.
The bit that confuses me is that even if there is some change of conductors and insulators over time, there's no reason to assume that would be in the direction that would improve performance.
thanks hans. love from spain
Thanks for watching!
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It seems Hans has missed discussing explicitly the most obvious solution, using a DAC with a competent USB section. I’m sure all the devices he mentions can solve issues that some DACs may have, but many or all of these devices are made irrelevant by a DAC with a quality USB input. With establishment of USB Audio Class 2 nearly 15 years ago now, there is no fundamental technical remedy discussed here that can’t or shouldn’t be done in a quality USB DAC input.
Exactly. Plenty of DAC makers have made incredibly effective USB implementations. So much so that USB is often the best sounding input on many DACs.
Roys in vivir Digital says the same. Nowadays many dacs resolve jitter problem in usb audio
O, but I agree completely. If both the USB output on the sending device and the input on the receiving device are perfectly designed and built, It offers the same quality as with perfectly applied AES/EBU, I²S or SPDIF. But these are scarce, I'm afraid.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Correct me if I’m wrong… I thought SPDIF (optical TOSLINK or RCA coax) is fundamentally flawed in the same way USB Audio Class 1 is flawed: data is clocked at the source. The DAC is unable to control the flow of data and therefore cannot fully control jitter; no amount of careful DAC implementation can correct the problem. Jitter performance with these connections becomes a function of the source. USB Audio Class 2 (and maybe also I2S, not sure) puts the DAC in control and the quality of its implementation determines jitter performance.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Hans, I just ordered a Lumin U2 streamer which has a fiber optic network output. Have you tested this before and how it compared to all the other audio outputs on a streamer?
Thanks Hans!
Anytime
great video
Thanks!
Thanks for yet another great informative video 🙏🏻
May I ask whether and how far the length of USB cables matter to sound quality?
We certainly cannot use cables shorter than we need. But we may have some cables in hand which may be longer than necessary, especially after we arrange equipments after moving places.
Thanks again.
The specs say 5 meters but for quality audio I would keep it as short as possible. If you need to cover a larger distance, use a network bridge.
Super!
Thank you! Cheers!
7 days? You're such a tease.
I know. Trying to reverse declining income🥴
This comment may be a direct reflection of my poor digital knowledge, but, doesn’t a USB type B have no power return? Reducing electrical noise. I use an audio grade USBC to USB type B cable to connect my Apple device to my DAC. My DAC only has 1 USB type B input, so I employ a USB type B to toslink adapter for other Apple devices. Your comments welcomed!
USB B has two data lines that are used bidirectional or unidirectional, depending on the mode used. And it has a +5 volt power line that comes from the sending device.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel 👍🍻
@@westernartifact580 please explain. Rather a sweeping statement I feel, when you have no concept of which Apple devices I employ. What adaptations I make to them and what equipment I pair them with plus, although it’s true to say that I use apple products to stream music, they are not my only streaming device, or indeed, music source. So I have plenty of comparisons, not involving Apple products. I look forward to a full explanation of that sweeping statement.
There is no error correction in USB2 audio transmission to DACs, just flow control. Just one of a number of incorrect assertions here, Hans.
There is no error correction in USB Audio Class 1. USB Audio Class 2 that is used nowadays does have error correction.
Thanks!
Thank you too!
Thanks!
Thank you, Sir.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel God bless you sharing your knowledge to help others 🙏